Not all Americans are Barking Nutters 640

That should not need to be said, but given the antics of Clinton and Trump it is as well to say it anyway to remind ourselves. Here is Green Party candidate Jill Stein explaining that you do not have to vote for either a “proto-fascist or a warmonger”.

The journalists of course attempt to say that to vote for Stein is to let Trump in. Stein sticks strongly to the argument that the “Queen of Corruption” and “Warmonger” Clinton is not in fact a real choice from Trump. This is of course absolutely true, Clinton is a dangerous extremist – she just happens to support the extremism of the right wing establishment and its poodle media.

I have been fascinated by the apoplexy generated in the pretend left by the notion that people ought not to vote for Clinton. The go-to argument is that not to vote for her is in itself an act of misogyny. I wonder if they will argue the same for Marine Le Pen. The second argument is that a corrupt warmonger is better than the racist bigot Trump. The interesting thing is, close examination reveals an almost 100% correlation between those apoplectic at any lack of support for Clinton, and those who supported Tony Blair. The idea that being an ultra-corrupt warmonger is not a big problem is obviously a fixed principle with these people.

640 thoughts on “Not all Americans are Barking Nutters

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  • Tony_0pmoc

    John Pilger in this interview with Assange seems surprised – but this is only a tip of a very dirty iceberg indeed as far as the origins, the finance, the training, the arms, medical support etc etc of ISIS – but it ain’t a bad start, and maybe Assange does not himself have any more detailed evidence than has already been revealed. Some of it has been published by the US Government themselves. Don’t follow the comments here on zerohedge too deeply if you don’t want to be sick. I have no idea if its true. I’m just not that keen on reading about such stuff.


  • Loony

    Whatever people may or may not think about Donald Trump the fact is he is going to win the US election. He will win for a very simple reason.

    As of today people not in the Labor Force stands at 94,609,000 (up by 425,000 in the last month) and people holding multiple jobs has hit a record high of 8,050,000.

    This will be the voter base that counts – and it is a big base, far, far bigger than all of the various special interest groups combined.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Quite an exaggerated figure as over 40 million people are officially over 65, and apparently retired, like me.

      And warmonger Hillary has helped promote employment by instigating all that conflict at home and abroad.

      She has a much better record in creating employment than OurAdolf.

      • Tom Welsh

        What makes you think that people over 65 don’t need a job to allow them to eat – let alone keep a roof over their head? You’re not thinking they can rely on adequate pensions, surely.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          I think that people over 65 should have saved enough money to eat, and have a roof over their head without still having employment.

          The fact that many still need employment just shows how nutty they are, having wasted much of their lives. They still expect the government to bail them out, no matter how recklessly they spend their lives.

          I certainly exist on my pensions and the money I have saved, and am still going, 87 come the day after the election next week.

          • John Spencer-Davis

            If they are continuing to work, they’re not expecting the government to bail them out – which is probably just as well.

            Amazing sentiments. You’d fit right in to the Cabinet.

          • bevin

            Well done Trowbridge. what an example you are to the shiftless masses!!
            As to whom no better proof of their irresponsibility can be shown than the likelihood that you lived off their labour, their taxes and their rations for most of what you probably call your “working” life.
            You appear to have inherited intact, and unalloyed by two centuries of historical practice, the crude and inhumane social theories that your hero Brougham picked up when they were, though rancid, novel.
            I’m surprised that there was ever any hesitation on your part in voting for Hillary.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Sorry, but people can have expectations contrary to their conditions, and I was employed all my adult life until I left the States nearly a quarter century ago,

            And I am, unlike Brougham, a socialist

          • Republicofscotland

            In my opinion, America began selling out its workers in the 60’s and 70’s, before that mum could stay home, and housekeep and look after thd kids, whilst dad brought home a decent wage.

            Then big business began moving US jobs overseas, to plant that built things cheaper. Mum had to get a part time job, then full time one to make up the difference.

            Today, in America, more jobs than ever are heading overseas, and two wages, coming into a household, are sometimes not enough.

          • michael norton

            Good point ( for once) RoS

            like FORD moving the transit factory after 50 years from Southampton to Asiatic Turkey, and what a peace have that place is, just because the peasants will work for peanuts under the lash.

            But how does that help the Ford Transit workers of Southampton put bread on their families plates, it does not.

          • lysias

            I assume a lot of what you exist on is your military pension. A lot of Americans don’t have such a generous pension scheme.

            Mind you, as a retired officer of the U.S. Navy, I have a military pension myself. I just don’t criticize those Americans who are not lucky enough to have such a generous pension plan.

      • Loony

        Trowbridge – If only you could be bothered to look at the numbers you might realize that the decline in Labor Force Participation rates has not been driven by the over 55 demographic.

    • Habbabkuk

      “As of today people not in the Labor Force stands at 94,609,000….”

      To draw any conclusions from the above would one not need to know

      1/. how many of that number are not in the labour force because they are still in formal education (school and university), or sufficiently disabled so as not to be able to work, or retired and no longer economically active

      2/. how many people are in the labour force?

    • Tom Welsh

      So, given that at every election they are given a choice of unacceptable candidates, what do you suggest they should do? Take up arms against the police, the National Guard, the FBI, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, and the Marines?

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        For starters, I suggest that all Americans register to vote, and then vote on election day.

        I image the next President will only receive about 50,000,000 votes.

        Since they don’t, they leave their fate to all kinds of nutty minorities.

        Then they should be required to do so.

        (I don’t recommend any violent acts against the institutionalized terrorists, though they have tried to kill me on many occasions.)

        Quit making excuses for these nuts who get what they deserve.

      • Habbabkuk

        Tom Welsh raises a very good – even essential – question.

        I note that Trowbridge’s answer is not an answer at all because he is in fact saying that everyone of voting age should be obliged to vote for one or the other of the candidates, who remain, in Mr Welsh’s words, unacceptable. Al that would mean is that both of the unacceptable candidates would get more votes but that one of them would still win.

        In a way, Trowbridge’s non-answer illustrates very well the fundamental flaw in blogs like this. It is that malcontents and others are able to criticise to their heart’s content but are unable, in 99% of cases, to propose meaningful and achievable solutions.

        • Loony

          If you find all of that so unacceptable then maybe you should lobby for war against Australia as they have compulsory voting.

          Maybe (for a fee) Hillary can be persuaded to nuke them.

          • Habbabkuk

            I don’t find compulsory voting unacceptable, Loony – it’s just not a solution to the question/problem raised by Tom Welsh.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Doesn’t matter what they are if there aren’t enough jobs, does it? Half the population of Detroit is now unable to pay into a pension. And will in future be unable to. What did you say? The feckless, idle layabouts should move somewhere else? Like Korea, where there is an auto industry?

      Let Detroit stand as a crumbling monument to the American Dream (it’s very far from being the only one), but suck it up. It’s gone, even if you’re ok, Jack

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Just your usual diversion.

        Detroit is not the USA, so its problems are hardly those of America.

        Detroit has more registered voters than adult residents, and is about bankrupt, as the auto industry essentially left for parts unknown, so no election there can solve its problems. They are those of Ann Arbor, Washington, and other state capitals.

        And where are the other Detroits?

        And have never been a ward of the state, only a volunteer for the draft during the Korean War.

        You’re the guy, sucking it up.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          Just your usual diversion.
          Always happy to cheer the patients up
          Detroit is not the USA, so its problems are hardly those of America.
          Last I heard, Canada hasn’t annexed it. Whose problem is it – with the rest of the deindustrialised Midwest – Mexico’s?
          Detroit has more registered voters than adult residents, and is about bankrupt, as the auto industry essentially left for parts unknown, so no election there can solve its problems. They are those of Ann Arbor, Washington, and other state capitals.
          And where are the other Detroits?

          But I thought you said…but maybe Ann Arbor, etc aren’t America either?
          And have never been a ward of the state
          I never said you had. But the economic opportunities which enabled you to build a pension and savings are disappearing by the minute. Your grandchildren’s generation as a whole is looking at, not only less certainty, but less chance to hedge against the uncertainty. Even if you leave them your enormous fortune.
          only a volunteer for the draft during the Korean War.
          I too volunteered, Though too late either for the UK draft or, thank god, the Korean clusterfuck. Moral high ground equal, unless you shot someone.

          You’re the guy, sucking it up.

          Indeed, and in a good way. Suggestion; the next time you’re passing somewhere whose obvious poverty suggests you avert your eyes and hit the gas pedal, why not stop and talk to the natives? You may learn something about your country.

    • Habbabkuk

      That is very true but it should be pointed out that whereas virtually everyone’s arsehole performs a useful function, very few opinions do the same.

      • Habbabkuk

        Play the ball and not the man, Giyane, as Craig has said several times.

        You do realise, don’t you, that ad personams and discourtesy towards other commenters are likely to get your post(s) deleted?

        Well, if the Mod(s) apply the same rules to you as they did recently to me, that is 🙂

    • Habbabkuk

      However a similarity should should also be pointed out. It is that an arsehole will get irritated if scratched too much, as will a person whose opinions are challenged (many examples on this blog refer).

      • giyane

        Hasbar, your use of the word refer in the context, though witty, fur exceeds the boundaries of polite conversation here..

  • Tony_0pmoc

    It seems today The Telegraph is finally implementing a pay wall for much of its content.

    I used to pay good money to read both The Beano and Dandy.

    I am certainly not going to pay The Telegraph anything, even though some of the nonsense they print is funny.

    • Tom

      They’d have to pay me to read most of it – a propaganda rag for the government and military.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      What is interesting about the Times and the Telegraph is how much information is leaked to them, and it’s difficult to appreciate that to its full extent without reading them. I took out a subscription to the Times in order to read exactly how much information had been fed to the paper by the right-wing Labour MPs planning a coup before the coup actually happened. That was very useful indeed. A lot of Labour MPs who resigned from the front bench or participated in the vote of no confidence claimed it was entirely a spontaneous decision and there was no coup plot. Bollocks! The essentials of what happened were reported in the Times and in a multitude of other places long before the coup, leaked by MPs, as was plainly stated.

      Easy enough to go back to one’s own MP and say “Well, the Times, the Telegraph and other sources knew all about this long before it happened, and you have the brass neck to say you didn’t? You can’t be much good as an MP then, if you are out of the loop to that extent. You’re either a liar or live in a dream world.”

      Conservative papers can be useful sometimes.

      • giyane

        J S-D

        It was the Telegraph that reported after Gaddafi’s murder how many hundreds of thousands of UK ground troops Cameron had deployed in Libya in the war that was supposed to have no UK ground troops.
        They just couldn’t resist the extraordinary brazenness of Cameron’s lying capabilities and splashed it across their front cover as soon as the neo-con mission to destroy the Muslim world for Zion had been successfully accomplished.

        I like the thrust of your comment. I find that if you insult the people who are spying on you enough, they break cover and react. Mr and Mrs Spy, you’re not supposed to show me you’ve been reading my internet activity and listening to my conversations with my wife by jumping up and down with rage and threatening my life.

        There’s something rather sweet about the US or UK big state, who hack into our every private word, getting exposed by their hybris by their own methods and their own press.

  • Peter C.

    Craig, I agree with your view that Jill Stein is the best candidate to vote for in the US. She’s very together, very articulate and has policies that would really serve ordinary people in the US (and with global knock-on effects of benefit to most of humanity). She’s also the only politician I’ve ever seen that seems to turn up at every interview with a clipboard, paper and pen at the ready to take notes. Amazing. Good interview you linked to and again Stein makes the point the “first past the post” system is a killer for democracy in US (and lots of people would say elsewhere too). That might be about to budge in the US a bit. Seems that the electorate in the state of Maine are just about to have a vote on whether or not to a adopt a “ranked voting” system for all of their state representatives. A little bit of detail on this here:

    If that goes through then maybe there will be moves to make it US-wide in the foreseeable future. (Hope so.)

  • bevin

    “At least Clinton knows what’s involved, bar a few lessons on internet security. And I doubt Donald’s too good with computers, either…
    The fact that Clinton knows what’s involved-hiring the usual suspects to run things and stepping back to feather your own nest/Foundation-is part of the problem. Her record shows that she really doesn’t care about anything else-and there are hundreds of thousands of emails to prove it.
    Making up your mind about Clinton shouldn’t be difficult: just find the clip of her reaction to the news that Ghadaffi had been despatched by a man shoving a bayonet up his arse and ripping his guts out.
    Hillary Clinton: unfiltered.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Leaders are rarely pleasant, Bevin. And the ones who have never been in a war (I freely admit I haven’t either) are the most crassly militaristic. So that lets Trump, with his imaginary heel spurs out, doesn’t it? When the usual suspects are hired to run things, Bevin, at least things get sorta run. Trump, a pissup and a brewery are not effective companions, however.

      I think Clinton and her husband and their band of servile arselickers are among the most disgusting inhabitants of the planet, and you don’t need to tell me. But so is Trump, and he’s ignorant to boot.

      • Loony

        What exactly has Trump ever done that comes even close to the vast crimes committed by the Clinton gang? Surely he is just a business man who has played the system to his own advantage. He is not a career politician so there will be things in his record that don’t look too good from a PR/PC perspective – but has he ever committed any crimes?

        • Hmmm

          Course he has. Don’t go down that route. But yes, compared to Hitlery he looks good. Though to be fair his main claim to fame is being the boss on the apprentice… He was very good on that and that, to my mind is qualification enough to be potus

          • Habbabkuk

            “Hitlery” -that was inspirationally funny, Hmmm! I was getting so bored with the rather unimaginative “Killary” used by RoS and various other minions. Did you think of it all by yourself?

            BTW – now that you’ve revealed great humorous talent, how about something similarly funny for Jeremy and Diane?

      • michael norton

        And Neil Kinnock, Jack Straw, Hillary Benn, Anthony Blair, Lord Mandleson, Nick Clegg

        the worst is Nick Clegg, at least the others didn’t pretend they believed in Democracy

          • michael norton

            Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Nick Clegg

            liars and demeaners of Democracy,
            they got their just deserts dropping fifty seats, that’s how much the voting public despize their Ilke.

      • bevin

        “When the usual suspects are hired to run things, Bevin, at least things get sorta run…”
        The usual suspects in this case are the Saudi clients, Podesta etc, and the neo-cons. Hillary has almost all the neo-cons supporting her. And they are the dangerous ones.
        The next few years of transition away from the imperial systems are dangerous particularly because in capitalism, as in Israel, there is an inclination to prefer the Samson option to surrendering to the inevitable. The death wish is central to fascism and fascism, the last resort of imperialism, is what Clinton represents.
        Don’t be misled by Trump’s manner- he is a dilettante, an accident.
        Clinton, the Goldwater girl from the John Birch society background is the dangerous one.
        As Glen Ford pointed out it isn’t hard to tell: you find the fascists where High Finance and Big Business rub shoulders with the warmongers and the media pundits, where Henry Kissinger and Brzezinski are smiling benignly on the prospect of more carnage and more inequality.
        There’s a reason that none of the media and none of the insiders are backing Trump and its not because they think he will lose- if he does lose it will be because of their influence and power- but because they can’t trust him to do the things that they require, the evil things such as employing Al Qaeda and arming ISIS, the nasty things like cutting living standards to pay higher interest on debt.
        That is Trump’s saving grace-the ruling class hate him. And it’s among those that the ruling class hates that the people should choose.
        The ruling class love Hillary.

        • philw

          Yes, it is precisely because Trump would be up against all the powerful establishment groups that I think he is less of a danger to the world at large than Clinton, who is working with them. Trump’s excesses may be contained, Clinton’s will have full rein.

  • RobG

    I’ve had a hard day at the office (cutting down a tree, actually) and I’m very tired, but as far as I can see there’s no mention by Craig, and also no mention in the comments, that one week ago the FBI re-opened their investigation into Hillary Clinton. There’s never before been a criminal investigation into a US presidential candidate. It’s totally unprecedented, let alone the investigation being re-opened with less than two weeks to go to the election. None of this has ever happened before.

    For the FBI to do this surely means that they have the dirt on Hillary? and it also means that it’s highly likely that they’ll bring charges against Hillary before next Tuesday’s election, otherwise there will be a constitutional crisis, as happened with Richard Nixon.

    • kief

      You just dropped in to see what condition your condition was in? Follow that horse and pick up the pieces of your life.

    • lysias

      There’s serious talk now of Congress impeaching Hillary. There is in fact a precedent for impeaching a former cabinet officer. Former Secretary of War William Belknap in 1876. The House majority would be very likely to vote to impeach Hillary, as they voted to impeach her husband in 1998.

      It’s unlikely that a two thirds majority in the Senate would vote to convict, but, if they did, the penalty she would suffer would be a prohibition against holding government office.

      • RobG

        lysias, with not much more than four days to go until election day, this brings up all kinds of legal stuff that I’m not qualified to answer.

        My take on it is that if the FBI really do have the dirt on Hillary they’ve got to lay charges before next Tuesday, otherwise it will be even more of a legal mess.

        (I’m assuming of course that it’s all rigged and HRC will be the next President)

    • Tony_0pmoc

      RobG, Cutting down the tree is the easy bit (if you’ve got a chainsaw). Getting rid of the Tree stump and the roots is very much harder. I’ve kept up to speed with all the latest stuff I can find on both Clinton’s but much of the material is so disgusting, I didn’t at first believe it, and its certainly not suitable for 86 year old gentlemen to read here. In comparison, Trump seems relatively normal.

      • RobG

        Tony, you are 86 years old?!

        I did have a chainsaw, but I couldn’t do the Texas Chainsaw Massacre because the tree was very close to their property and was partially surrounded by a veranda that had lots of treasured plants on it. As a result I had to keep climbing up the damn tree and hand sawing off smaller branches, before trying to chainsaw the larger trunks to fall in the right direction. Only two of their treasured plants got destroyed in the process.

        Wikileaks 29 has just been released. It won’t restore your faith in the Clintons…

        • michael norton

          If the Clintons get into the whitehouse, how long before uncle bill goes rouge with one of Killary’s playmates?

        • Tony_0pmoc


          I do have a chainsaw – well sort of. I won’t touch it…but we do have a lot of work to do..My lad tried the electric version that I bought..and it worked for a few days..and he said Dad – this is shit…and so he took it back and paid £50 more out of his own money to buy a petrol version…its a 2 stroke – and we were wondering where to put the oil in – and so I asked my mate – who didn’t have much of a clue either…I stand well clear.

          Not quite 86 yet – but working on it. I don’t think there’s much chance – but you never know.

          Not dead yet.


          • RobG

            Tony, whilst chainsaws and cutting down things might seem a bit off topic in this thread, it is perhaps relevant, given the present state of the world.

            For the record, I try to avoid electric chainsaws like the plague. When you’re climbing up trees, the long electrical cable trailing behind you can be lethal, both by getting snarled-up in it, the cuttings getting snarled-up in it, or by accidentally cutting the high voltage electric line. Death! Death! Death!

            I believe the highest insurance premiums for any trade are for deep sea divers.

            Lumberjacks come second, and no real lumberjack would ever use an electric chainsaw.

  • Anon1

    From the emails.

    While Trump fills stadia, Hillary has to hide her tiny rallies:

    “Less than 100 people – NO cell phones, NO press. Over 100 people YES cell phones, and ONE print pooler will be escorted in for her remarks only and then escorted out. NO tv cameras.”

  • Anon1

    Hillary hopes that the San Bernardino shooter is white…

    “Damn… Better if a guy named Sayeed Farouk was reporting that a guy named Christopher Hayes was the shooter.”

  • Anon1

    Hillary dreams of open borders:

    “My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders”

    (Not too different to Craig in this regard)

  • Anon1

    For all the Bernie fans out there:

    “Bernie and his people have been bitching about super delegates and the huge percentage that have come out for Hillary… We want [Bernie supporters] to go home happy and enthusiastic in working their asses off for Hillary. Why not throw Bernie a bone . . . his people will think they’ve “won” something from the Party Establishment. And it functionally doesn’t make any difference anyway. They win. We don’t lose. Everyone is happy.”
    ” am doing the opposite, repeatedly writing friendly and positive pieces about Bernie as an HRC supporter, and when the time is right I will have money in the bank with him and his people as a liberal to urge them to come out in force to vote for HRC.”


    • glenn_uk

      Good Lord… you’d almost think they were fighting an election campaign against each other!

  • Anon1

    Hillary’s team excited about a black teen’s murder:

    “This is great.”
    “Davis was killed by a white man.”

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      For those posters wanting to know when and why the FBI got started in getting Hllary, its agents have been wanting to get the Clintons ever since Whitewater broke, especially her for helping John Doar’s committee bring down that vile Nixon.

      The Bureau has been up to its ears in politics for years..

  • Mark Golding

    Donald Trump is of course an asset, a leverage, a facet of command, control, power.and wealth. To understand that facet I believe one must understand the strength of intention intrinsic to preserving, controlling and cultivating the United States mantle of leadership for global peace and security that is analogous to a false immunity for a pandemic disease, a cancer that is the war on terror, the chaos in the Middle East and the contrivance that has labels such as al-Qaeda, ISIS or Daesh. These are the components, the building blocks of a perceived world order in the minds of the exclusory positioned to enact a global initiative that must eclipse nationalism, populism and fundamental morality.

    That power, that cancer was witnessed in the destruction and deliverance of Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders.

    On November 8 2016 while Donald gets his bounty, Hillary Clinton will receive her crown perched on the throne of authority and power; an occlusion from sexism preprogrammed within the Trump conduit and sadly the beginning of enmity and schism.

    • kief

      That is the direction of course. I think this makes the case for a non-Trump president-elect to the Status Quo, unless they see him changing his spots with his underwear. I can’t really tell if he has firm or malleable principles. Other than that. he’s a lot like (from my pov) he is a lot like William Randolph Hearst, the spoon-fed megalomaniac of Yellow Journalism.

      In a time when government should be de-centralizing we have one-track minds who are determined to bring all into ONE. Bad news for the rest of us.

      • mark golding

        It was Hearst who although an exponent of the progressive movement, allowed his vast media network of ‘yellow journalism’ or sensational garbage comparable to the ‘news of the World’ and the Murdoch empire articles of dubious veracity, the latitude to provide a conduit for neo-liberal political objectives or ground zero ambitions.

        It was within the same architecture of political ideology we witnessed the corruption of decentralization in an American scheme stealthily restricting choice to those deemed to be acting obsessively, immoderately or more importantly, unpatriotic and impacting the so called ‘safety and security’ of our country.

        The game plan known as David Cameron’s ‘Big Society’ became a ‘dud’ after I exposed Cameron’s modus operandi when fully analyzing his responses in a ‘Big Society’ blog called WebCameron –

        The ‘Big Society’ concept was propelled by Mr Coulson; remember him? He originally embraced the idea of resuscitating National Service and attempted to convince Cameron in his position of power to make NS compulsory to ‘curb extremism’ and radicalization. Mr Coulson was arrested and charged with conspiracy to illegally intercept communications and jailed for 18 months. (Nota Bene GCHQ at Bude).

        I give fair warning to my friends and believers the ‘Big Society’ big idea spun out and morphed into the National Citizen Service for 16 to under 25’s and today the National Citizen Service Bill with cross-party support, will create a Royal Charter to secure the NCS Trust as a permanent national institution; an ‘academy of life’ chaired by Cameron tasked to ‘dumb-down’ future generations to accept, trust and ‘take as gospel’ our British MSM & BBC edict and publications and our British statute, constitution, political decree, special relationships and foreign policy.

        Mark Golding
        November 5th 2016

        • kief

          No doubt Cameron caromed off LBJ’s ‘Great Society’….well-meaning but wrong-headed activism making a society of cripples as we did Native Americans. It’s all Show and no Go.

  • bevin

    When the usual suspects are hired to run things, Bevin, at least things get sorta run…”
    The usual suspects in this case are the Saudi clients, Podesta etc, and the neo-cons. Hillary has almost all the neo-cons supporting her. And they are the dangerous ones.
    The next few years of transition away from the imperial systems are dangerous particularly because in capitalism, as in Israel, there is an inclination to prefer the Samson option to surrendering to the inevitable. The death wish is central to fascism and fascism, the last resort of imperialism, is what Clinton represents.
    Don’t be misled by Trump’s manner- he is a dilettante, an accident.
    Clinton, the Goldwater girl from the John Birch society background is the dangerous one.
    As Glen Ford pointed out it isn’t hard to tell: you find the fascists where High Finance and Big Business rub shoulders with the warmongers and the media pundits, where Henry Kissinger and Brzezinski are smiling benignly on the prospect of more carnage and more inequality.
    There’s a reason that none of the media and none of the insiders are backing Trump and its not because they think he will lose- if he does lose it will be because of their influence and power- but because they can’t trust him to do the things that they require, the evil things such as employing Al Qaeda and arming ISIS, the nasty things like cutting living standards to pay higher interest on debt.
    That is Trump’s saving grace-the ruling class hate him. And it’s among those that the ruling class hates that the people should choose.
    The ruling class love Hillary.

  • Sharp Ears

    Cause and effect.

    Trump jitters see £76bn wiped off FTSE 100 in worst week since January
    London’s leading index suffers the worst week since January as investors continue to flee risk over US election worries.

    Fears of a Donald Trump election victory have seen the FTSE 100 suffer its worst week since January, wiping £76bn off the value of its constituent companies.

    A strengthening pound in recent days has also been a key factor.

    London’s leading index followed Asia sharply lower on Friday – extending losses from the four previous sessions.

    Investors, fearing a Trump presidency could usher in major uncertainty and damage global trade, have been spooked by signs of a narrowing poll lead for Hillary Clinton, seen as a continuity candidate.

    The negative sentiment saw the FTSE 100 close 97 points down at 6693 points to complete a gloomy week.

    It leaves the index 303 points, or 4.3%, below its closing position last Friday – the worst weekly performance since the start of January.


    • Habbabkuk

      Did not Craig once tell us that he did not wish to see “comments” which consisted only of links and cut-and-pastes from elsewhere on his blog?

      I believe he said he wished to see personal input (thoughts, opinions, even facts, etc) from commenters and not just unashamed regurgitations.

    • Habbabkuk

      That was probably because he wishes his blog to be a forum for discussion, argument and even disagreeement rather than a kind of low-grade news agency or news collecting service.

      • glenn_uk

        I find the “breaking news” correspondents here pretty annoying too. If I want news, there really is no shortage of sites which set themselves up specifically for that job.

        But since we’re now blessed with stock market info, why not also have weather reports? It’s supposed to be sunny here tomorrow!

        • Loony

          Stock market information is quite relevant.

          Information derived from the stock market can be utilized to construct the percentage chances of a Trump victory. As of close of business today Trump has an 86% chance of becoming the next POTUS

          This estimate is just below the bottom of the range of probability suggested by Professor Norpoth’s research.

          Should anyone consider the methodology utilized in the above estimates to have validity then it should be noted that a substantial arbitrage opportunity exists as between these estimates and current bookmakers odds.

          • glenn_uk

            I suppose you’d have taken the rising pound as showing confidence of a REMAIN vote, right up until the results started coming in? After all, the stock markets surely had that one right.

        • Habbabkuk


          and of course let’s not forget the valuable info on who will appear on Question Time and Any Questions!

      • Alcyone

        Well Habby, of course he did. But I wonder if the Moderators have special Leftist considerations for the socially and intellectually challenged?

        Look some people have come towards the end of their lives, not having achieved much. So a low-level secretary in a place like this gets to challenge the Secretaries of State. Imagine how empowering it must feel. But then, excuse a couple of old maxims: old habits die hard and can you teach an old dog new tricks? So they fall back to their true capacities. How sad it must be to to live without a single, original thought. Should we not show some compassion and understanding?

        Especially so, when their social-skills are limited? As Einstein said education is what is left when you have forgotten when everything you learnt at school. I think they used to call it pedigree. Just had to look it up and the Oxford dictionary still retains that part of the definition, despite the wonderful new politically-correct world we live in.

        And I’ll bet my bottom-dollar that the second-hand human being never went anywhere near a University.

        PS Now watch these astute and true observations be knifed. You can talk here about chain-saws and cutting trees, about disappearances and falling FTSE’s, but no how dare you talk about The Human Condition.

        • Alcyone

          This neurotic, nervous so-called ‘moderation’. Can someone please explain to me what they are so nervous about? Might it be that we might start a Revolution? Might it be that they are happy, cosy and comfortable with the status quo? The last brain-dead HAVE to be carried? So that we might remain the Type Zero Global Civilisation we are. When an original thought is deleted, it gives me assurance that I am on the other bank of the dastardly and murky River of Humanity.

          Carry on Mods, but I shall not exclude you from holding up a mirror to look into.

          • Alcyone


            Transformation reads better.

            Enough for the day!

            Happy weekend coming up or shall we stay started.

    • kief

      Yeah. I can’t imagine why a Shadow Government would take steps to make a Trump regime. Who hacked?

      I digress.

      I’ve been saying from the beginning that the many tentacles of the Status Quo combine to resist having a loose-cannon in the WH. They a measure of predictability, especially in the markets because the stakeholders are emotional cauldrons of overreaction. You stated it correctly.

      Ignore the screams from our local inmates. How did all the morons in the region find this site so magnetic?

  • bevin

    Here’s Bernhard of Moon of Alabama on the matter:
    “For me, as a non U.S. person, the major issues of the U.S. presidential elections is always foreign policy. There Trump is not hawkish at all. He has somewhat confused, unlearned blustering positions on foreign policy but is basically a cautious, risk averse businessman. He consistently criticizes the war mongering in Washington DC. Hillary Clinton is a run-of-the-mill warmongering neoconservative compatible with the imperial “mainstream” of the power centers in Washington and elsewhere….

    He then quotes a Trump speech in Grand Rapids Michigan on October 31:

    “Hillary led us to disaster in Iraq, in Syria, in Libya. … Hillary and our failed Washington establishment have spent $6 trillion on wars in the Middle East, and now it’s worse than it’s ever been before.
    Had Obama and others gone to the beach, Obama could have gone to the golf course, we would have been in much better shape.

    “We shouldn’t have gone into the war, and she thinks I’m a hawk. Oh, Donald Trump.

    “Imagine if some of the money had been spent, $6 trillion in the Middle East, on building new schools and roads and bridges right here in Michigan.

    “Now Hillary, trapped in her Washington bubble, that’s blind to the lessons, wants to start a shooting war in Syria in conflict with a nuclear armed Russia that could drag us into a World War III.

    “Okay, folks. She – I’ll tell you what. She will get us into World War III. She will get us into World War III. I will tell you that. She’s incompetent. She will get us into World War III.

    “The arrogant political class never learns. They keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. They keep telling the same lies. They keep producing the same failed results…”

    “Trump”, writes b, “may well be lying when he says he does not seek a conflict with Russia or anyone else. Trump surely lies on other issues.”
    Reward Clinton’s Hawkishness Because Trump’s Foreign Policy Is Uncertain?

    • glenn_uk

      I suppose you’re quite happy about Trump’s position on torture? How about his declaration that women obtaining the termination of a pregnancy should be punished? I could go on at some length, but you seem rather soft on this particular fascist.

      • Loony

        Perhaps s/he is soft on Trump because, in line with official Democratic Party descriptive terms s/he is either a Sonderkommando or “fucked in the head”

      • lysias

        The alternative is Hillary, who is even worse.

        Mind you, I don’t intend to vote for either of the crooks. I intend to vote for the honest candidate,Jill Stein. But unfortunately she has no chance of winning.

        • Habbabkuk

          To be noted that Craig has managed to limit mentioning his support for Mrs Stein to this one occasion. Why on earth do certain commenters feel it necessary to remind us of their preference for Mrs Stein at least twice a week?

      • giyane

        Who’d have thought that the consequence of all that human humping would be babies, or indeed of all that neo-con destruction of infrastructure in Iraq and Libya would be the rise of terror.

        Finger in the mouth politics. I never knew that would happen.

        That Trump speech quoted by Bevin from moonofalabama, was superb. That’s not just oratory, it’s truth , and sense. Maybe just 4 cherries turned up in a row, or maybe just God inspired him to nail the evil c**t.

  • Sharp Ears

    O/T Wonder if Liam Fox was tuned in/squirming today when Sri Lankan abuses of human rights were being debated in the HoC?

    Liam Fox was joined by former flatmate on official visit to Sri Lanka
    Defence secretary joined by Adam Werritty despite claiming he had never accompanied him on government business
    Liam Fox (front) and Adam Werritty (far back, in purple tie) on the official trip to Sri Lanka. Photograph: British High Commission

    Sri Lanka: Human Rights

    There have been 65,000 enforced disappearances there since 1995.

    PS Where is Werritty?

  • glenn_uk

    Personally, I would like to have seen Sanders pitted against Trump right now. Since he did not get the nomination, the only reasonable choice is still for the Democrat – however bad they might be. Sanders will be the ranking member on the Senate budget committee. He will have quite a say over the manner in which the country is governed. Left-leaning appointees to the Supreme Court will be nominated. And so on.

    If Trump is elected, there will be less than no interest in concern for diplomacy, the environment, minority rights, human rights, women’s rights, and so on. There will be a huge upsurge of ugly nationalism, religious intolerance, the likes of Giuliani would be appointed Attorney General. Raving reactionaries would be appointed to the Supreme Court that would make Scalia appear an old softie.

    It actually beggars belief that anyone reasonable would want anyone except Clinton to receive votes. People can waffle about Stein all they like – she has an approximately zero chance of becoming President. It’s Clinton or Trump.

    • RobG

      glenn_uk, do you still buy into the bullshit? despite what Craig up top says, and despite what many of us say below the line.

      Clinton is under criminal investigation by the FBI. This has never happened before with a US presidential candidate.

      • glenn_uk

        Still with the innuendo, Rob, and falling for a nakedly partisan move by one figure in the FBI? The is great internal strife at the FBI right now at this political act. Unsourced statements, malicious rumour-mongering – which is the stock and trade of the alt-right brigade – that’s good enough for you, apparently.

        Meanwhile, the fascist who has a clear criminal history gets a pass. Never realised that so many who write here are soft on fascism. Not just the Anon1’s, Nortons and the usual suspects, but otherwise decent and reasonable people.

    • Shatnersrug

      Yes but you’re amoungst Scottish independence supporters here so surely you can’t be surprised that they hope for a alternative candidate.

    • bevin

      ” Raving reactionaries would be appointed to the Supreme Court that would make Scalia appear an old softie.’
      The President, as Obama can tell you, doesn’t appoint Justices. He merely nominates them for the Senate to give its advice and consent.
      As to Scalia, a reactionary indeed, he was appointed without a dissenting voice or vote from the Senate.
      The notion that Supreme Court nominations are of such importance as to relegate matters of nuclear war and further expeditions of the wahhabi terror militias to minor concerns is precisely the sort of exceptionalist idiocy that American liberals seem unable to escape from.
      As to the matter of abortion there is no danger of that right being taken away from the women of the USA. It is, happily now established.
      Regarding environmental questions do not pretend that Hillary’s record is other than abysmal. And now there are her pledges to Goldman Sachs and her supporters the Koch brothers.
      Neither candidate is worth a vote. My concern is not to solicit support for Trump but to warn anti-fascists away from falling for the trick of electing Hillary and thereby endorsing her. Far better to treat both with disdain. If only to make it clear to the Democrats that-contrary to the Obama, Clinton, Podesta theory of triangulation- the left does have somewhere else to go.

      • glenn_uk

        Bevin – I hate to break it to you, but the Supreme Court is exceptionally important. Roe V Wade was a S.C. decision, not something already well established and inviable. This was only in 1973, you will recall, and could just as easily be overturned. And would be – with another raving reactionary or two on the bench. As there will be, under a Trump Presidency.

        The US President doesn’t just nominate Justices, s/he also suggests legislation. They have little executive power.

        What’s Trump’s environmental record? This guy rejects the very idea of climate change. JHC – I’m all for treating Clinton with distain, but voting in a fascist hardly seems like a great alternative! Unlike pretty much every purist here, I – for one (and one alone, it appears!) would prefer a Democrat to an out of control toxic narcissist with fascist tendancies.

        Why do you keep suggesting that Clinton is about to cause a nuclear war? Your candidate Trump is the chap who doesn’t understand why nukes aren’t used much more frequently. He is the candidate who has suggested we bomb the hell out of Arabs and take their oil. Your man Trump says we just bomb ISIS (and everyone near them). Your Trump candidate wants to torture a heck of a lot more, and thinks water-boarding is just the start of it. That’s your boy, right there. Own it. You are promoting him.

        But Clinton doesn’t pass the purity test, so decent people like you want to sit back, arms folded, and see someone like Trump get in instead. There is no hope.

  • Loony

    Donald Trump is not part of the US political elite, and hence has had no part in forming US policy. A degree of uncertainty exists as to the actual policies that Trump may seek to implement should he become POTUS.

    No such uncertainty exists with regard to Hillary Clinton, as she has been part of the political establishment for many years. So there can be no doubt that Hillary supports the US doctrine of nuclear primacy – that is a policy that envisages the US launching and winning a nuclear war. Should you have interest you can read all about it here

    Some may consider this to be a recklessly dangerous policy, but not to worry Ash Carter has been on the case for many years and has authored an interesting book regarding how a nuclear war can be won. I somehow don’t think it will make many Christmas lists

    If you want more war with a growing likelihood that someone will press the button and pull the plug then vote Hillary.

    • michael norton

      I do not get a vote because I am English.
      I did get to cast my vote for BREXIT
      but the judges and the remoaners are stealing the democracy from the people.

      If I was an American I would vote for The Donald, a fine upstanding Scot.

    • Old Mark

      Donald Trump is not part of the US political elite, and hence has had no part in forming US policy. A degree of uncertainty exists as to the actual policies that Trump may seek to implement should he become POTUS.

      Loony- this is why the $ will very likely take a big hike downwards if Trump wins- a likelihood I neither fear or relish (Tom Welsh please note).

      I’m sure that having a sociopathic bully in the White House is not a good idea; Trump will change the game to a degree that’ll give a major shock to the system, both at the official and deep state level, and some of the fallout is likely to be unpleasant for both America and the wider world. But this week I keep recalling Churchill’s quote about democracy- namely about it being ‘the worst form of government, except for all the others’ and thinking that this might be an apt response to the prospect of a Trump, as opposed to a Hillary Clinton, presidency.

  • Hieroglyph

    I hate Facebook. I log in this morning, and I get trolled by some pro-Clinton rant from Seth something or other. I find almost all US comedians uniformly tedious, but that’s a separate thread (possibly MK Ultra). Anyhow, you can be sure that Zuckerberg is lobbying for Clinton, and I strongly suspect the algorithm are manipulated, much in the way, say, Libor was manipulated, but harder to prove. Zuckerberg is a prize knob though, proof enough.

    There has been some talk of a schism between FBI and CIA. I suppose – US people may set me right here – that the FBI are essentially civilian, whilst the CIA is military, and deep state. So, this is, theoretically, a schism between the civilian branch and the military wing. Usually I’d side with the civilian branch, but I’m afraid the evidence is in, and it’s damning: Clinton inc is deeply, irrevocably corrupt, and if the FBI won’t indict, then so are they. However, the crazy neocons won’t go away when she’s indicted, no they’ll just attach themselves to Trump – who has some serious racists as supporters – and carry on as usual.

    In a way, we should thank Clinton inc. I doubt they are the only corrupt network in politics, to put it mildly, but they appear to be amongst the dumbest, and have unwittingly shone a light on the political process. There is a small irony here: after their uniform support for mass surveillance, they’ve been caught out by the very surveillance they’ve championed. Podesta has been merrily discussing all sorts of unscrupulous schemes, apparently unaware that these emails are probably in some NSA cloud, or could be leaked by an insider. I mean, just how dumb is that guy? I suppose dumb enough not to question the Clinton’s, and smart enough … to not question the Clinton’s. The right level of dumb.

    • Darth

      There isn’t the slightest doubt that Facebook manipulates shares based on politics. Currently incoming Facebook traffic to the blog has dropped by 90%.since the most recent Podesta post. Facebook former employees have stated it was part of their job to manipulate rising trends and Facebook themselves have admitted it. It is like a switch being turned on an off it is that clear in our logs. Twitter does not fiddle with content distribution but Facebook does. Let’s be clear – on a really busy day Facebook can send thousands of people per hour to this site and you really notice it when they turn you off. This is the about the third time Facebook has punished this blog.

    • glenn_uk

      Hieroglyph: It’s not _all_ the FBI by a long way. There is a major row taking place there now. Comey is a Republican through and through. The Dems – trying to be bipartisan as they’re always weak and stupid enough to be – appointed this Republican, and are now witnessing the wisdom of that attempt to “reach across the aisle”, as Obama was always trying to do.

      The FBI won’t indict anyway, btw – that would be down to the Justice Department. But it’s a forgivable mistake to make, because Comey himself and a slew of former FBI Republican stooges have gone trooping before Fox (and every available TV camera) to make lurid, completely unsubstantiated claims against Clinton, and even claimed themselves that they would put forward an indictment.

  • fedup

    Strange that despite having had a meeting with Julian whose views ought to have been discussed, there is a notion being tabled that there exists some kind of an “election” in US. The selection has already been made, and it is a question of timing; when to announce coronation of the selected candidate to the Yanks.

    “Trump will not be permitted to win”

    • kief

      Sad to say I no longer find him credible. I don’t trust the source of the emails, and I don’t have faith in their veracity. Someone has engineered a two-fer. Actually it’s an epic fuck to all established pipelines of information. No one trusts anyone. I can’t imagine who hacked and distributed and in spite of Craig’s assertion that he knows, I think it’s just another plausible head fake.

    • Alcyone

      Brian, everything you wanted to know about kief, but were afraid to ask:

      “Kief (pronounced [keːf, ki(ː)f]; from Arabic كيف (kayf), meaning ” pleasure, intoxication”[1]), sometimes transliterated as keef or kif, refers to the resinous trichomes of cannabis that may accumulate in containers or be sifted from loose, dry cannabis flower with a mesh screen or sieve. Using a three-chamber herb grinder the cannabis can be finely ground while letting kief crystals fall through a screen and collect into a small compartment. Kief contains a much higher concentration of psychoactive cannabinoids, such as THC, than that of the cannabis flowers from which it is derived. Traditionally, kief has been pressed into cakes of hashish for convenience in storage, but can be vaporized or smoked in either form.[2] After the kief is collected it is heated and pressurized, which turns it into hashish”

      IOW, this one is definitely an American Nutter, as Craig calls it.

  • Habbabkuk

    Strange thatat least one of the members of this blog’s Assange fan club has still not answered the following two questions; they are really quite simple.

    1/. Was the recently planned interview of Mr Assange by Swedish prosecutors in the Ecuadorian Embassy postponed/cancelled by Mr Assange or by the Swedes?


    2/. Has a new date for said interview been fixed/proposed/agreed?

    I do hope that the answers to the above are not (1) Mr Assange and (2) No – although that would probably explain the strange and unusual reticence displayed by the Assangists.

    • bevin

      “Strange that at least one of the members of this blog’s Assange fan club has still not answered the following two questions; they are really quite simple.”
      The only strange thing about this is your, presumably affected, surprise. Most sensible people commenting here recognise that your purpose is simply to disrupt debate and discredit the site. It is therefore counter productive to spend time refuting your unoriginal and tedious quibbles and talking points.
      You are working for the the powers that be, whether you are given money for doing so or do so because you are an authoritarian conformist who cannot bear to see the rich and powerful criticised, is no longer of much interest.
      So why don’t you answer the two questions yourself. No need to share them with us.

  • Edward


    A warning?

    “As opinion polls suggest Donald Trump is gaining support, Hillary Clinton has been holding rallies in states that had been considered safe for the Democrats.

    A BBC correspondent says both teams are now concentrating more on getting their supporters to vote, rather than swaying those undecided.

    Thirty-seven million early ballots have already been cast.

    US authorities say they are assessing the credibility of information on a possible al-Qaeda terror attack.

    New York, Texas and Virginia are believed to be the potential targets mentioned in connection with a possible attack before election day on Tuesday, but a police spokesman said the information “lacks specificity”.

    Officials say they regularly assess all possible threats before major events.”

    • Sharp Ears

      The less likely her victory becomes, she resorts to giving concerts by the likes of Beyonce and JLo to attract an audience. She also shouts at the rostrum rather than just speaking. She is an appalling woman.

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