Nationalisation Without Compensation 1600

When slavery was abolished in the British Empire, taxpayers paid huge sums in compensation to slave owners for the loss of their “property”. No compensation was ever paid to the slaves for the loss of their freedom.

The problem with that approach is, of course, that the state did not take into account that the “property” of which it was relieving the landowners was acquired as part of an inhuman and immoral situation.

I was considering the same question in relation to the constitutional moves of South Africa to redistribute land without compensation. It seems to me this is plainly morally justified. The only question marks I can see are of practicality, in terms of making sure those taking over the land are trained to keep it properly in production, and that redistribution is not corrupt. Those are not insuperable problems, and I support the South African government in its endeavours.

But I wish to apply the same principle, of the state acting to right historic injustice on behalf of the people, much more widely and in the UK.

I apply precisely the same argument to the great landed estates, particularly but not only in Scotland. I believe the fundamental answer to land reform is confiscation by the state of large estates, and that social justice can never be redressed by the taxpayer simply handing over money to the ultra-wealthy. We have already been doing far too much of that through the bankers’ bailouts.

I have no moral qualms at all about simply taking back the land, whether it be from the Dukes of Sutherland, Buccleuch and Atholl, from a Dutch businessman or from a sheikh. In England the Grosvenor estate, the lands of the Duchy of Cornwall, and similar holdings could be confiscated. I do not see this as harm to the “owners”. Let them work for a living, or try their luck with the benefits claim system. Residential properties in large estates might become council homes, while tenants of commercial properties might pay rents to the council rather than to the Duke of Westminster, and the council use a large portion of that money for homebuilding.

Agricultural land from vast estates might perhaps best be given to the tenant farmers who have rented it. In the Highland glens, there are vast tracts which were once cattle rearing and arable. We have been lied to for generations that these are only fit for moorland for grouse and deer hunting – despite the fact that they are studded with the croft foundations of the cleared populations they once supported, who reared cattle and grew crops. These unfarmed lands should be given free to communities to develop; with assistance for the expensive task of bringing them back into production. That assistance would be a better use of state money than paying “compensation” to the ultra-wealthy.

But it is not only land. I favour nationalisation without compensation of all PFI projects, and of all railways and utilities. The owners have milked the public and the taxpayer far too long. Any business investment carries risk, including political risk. If you misjudge the political risk, your business fails. These businesses have made a misjudgement of political risk in the view they could profiteer, that it is possible to rip off the people forever without blowback. That is a business miscalculation, and such businesses deserve to fail.

The Labour Party’s renationalisation proposals have been carefully calculated within the existing framework of “legitimate” property rights. Therefore John McDonnell has framed rail nationalisation in terms of the expiration of franchises, and talked of PFI projects in terms of buyouts. I reject this approach in favour of the more radical approach of confiscation.

Yes, I realise that some percentage of the investments removed will belong to pension funds and insurance companies and even foreign states, and to small investors. Still more will belong to hedge funds and plutocrats, and the stake of ordinary people in wealth through pension funds had been – deliberately – tumbling for two decades. The less wealthy individuals with a stake in pension funds will lose a little, but gain from the wider public good, and for them there might be a compensation mechanism.

I also realise the markets will not like confiscation, and there will be an increase in bond yields; but this will pass. There is no measure to redress social injustice the markets will like. The City of London is our enemy and will naturally attempt to resist or punish any attack on its continued ability to be the conduit for the hoovering dry of the national wealth.

The fact is, that the extreme injustice and inequalities of society have now become so very glaring that there is no way to make any impression on wealth disparity without changes that may be rightly considered revolutionary. Either we are content to live in a society where the wealthiest one per cent will within two decades own ninety per cent of all wealth in the UK and the rest of us be helots, or we make changes to the fabric of the economy and government which are truly radical.

The economic system has tilted beyond correction by tinkering.

What is immorally owned ought not to be compensated on expropriation by the community.

As with the owners of slaves, the owners of “property” would be likely to attempt to defend their riches through the courts. This is where the doctrine of the sovereignty of parliament might for once be put to good rather than evil use, in passing law making such state confiscation unequivocally legal. Both the UK and Scotland appear set for at least a period outside the EU; I cannot think of a better use for any window of legal autonomy.

I am fully aware that I am proposing very radical measures very unlikely to be adopted by the current political Establishment. But the most telling fact of recent western society, itself a natural and predictable result of that galloping wealth inequality, is that the political Establishment has its coat on a very shoogly peg.

1,600 thoughts on “Nationalisation Without Compensation

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  • Molloy


    Land. Poverty. Food. Unfairness. Tory corruption. Killing the feeders whilst expecting thanks.

    “I just gently say to her (May) and the members behind her, foodbanks are not just a photo opportunity for Conservative MPs who themselves… supported the cuts in benefit that have led to the poverty in this country.” Jeremy Corbyn


  • Republicofscotland

    As SNP MP Ian Blackford all but called Theresa May a liar at PMQ’s yesterday, until the Speaker stepped in, Blackford treads where Corbyn fears to go. A Tory MP suggests that the BBC is a mouthpiece for the government.

    Of course Thersa May’s prevaricating government is the first in British history to be found guilty of contempt of parliament. Well according to this it is.

  • N_

    What are people stockpiling in preparation for Brexit?

    Easy are pasta, rice, chocolate – if you eat that fattening stuff 🙂
    And flour if you have got a means of baking without electricity.
    Other easy items are delicious Scottish oatcakes, tins of baked beans or whatever, peanut butter, veggie paté in tubes, orange juice for the vitamin C, UHT milk or UHT soya milk, dried soup, dried bouillon drink, dried beans of any kind you want.

    What else?

    Anyone who is on maintenance doses of prescription painkillers should say they’re taking more than they actually are at the moment, so as to build up stocks.

    • N_

      And oatmeal! Lots of bags of that and a good stock of UHT milk, all assuming there is a means of cooking without electricity.

      • SoTexGuy

        Samuel Johnson: “In England we wouldn’t think of eating oats. We only feed them to Horses”.
        James Boswell: “Well, maybe that’s why in England you have better horses, and in Scotland we have better men”.

        Conversation in response to Johnson criticizing Boswell for the latter’s Scottish habit of eating oats for breakfast.

      • flatulence'

        I’ll mainly be eating tories although I believe they are severely lacking in moral fibre. I’ll despatch them humanely to make up for that. Humane in their eyes at least. Death by endless cuts would seem quite fitting. A 5 week waiting period for food or water or warmth (they may choose 1), all while I laugh at them and tell them “I’m here to do a job” and I’m awesome and convince them they are so much better off than under a Labour government. Then I’ll take a selfie as I give them a teaspoon of their own piss and charge them for it.

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      The most galling aspect will be all those smug bastards that had wood burning stoves fitted as architectural features. They’ll be able to heat their tins of soup and beans, I’ll be on cold beans on crackers.
      Canned goods and shotguns for all!

    • Radar O'Reilly

      I bought an emergency drinking straw, for no apparent reason


      (other brands are available) (this brand however has a drinking straw life expectancy throughput: 100,000 gallon (378 kiloLitres) guaranteed. . .allegedly), doesn’t get rid of all the pathogens, just most of them.

      I do have the 3-months of dry food, tuna-tins in an attic, radios & batteries in a biscuit-tin etc etc – but that was even before the clever exit thing was thought-of. . .

    • Deb O'Nair

      And don’t forget to keep an axe handy for when your neighbours come knocking on your door in a zombified state of hunger and malnutrition because they can smell Oats-So-Simple from half a kilometer away.

  • Tony M

    Andyoldlabour: “So, having got that out of the way, why is UK independence seen as a bad thing and described as “far right”, “xenophobic” etc?”

    It isn’t. Though UK independence presently encompasses continued subjugation and exploitation of the other nations and peoples of Britain, so it is in that way xenophobic, but English Independence and nationalism should flourish, it’s their or it’s your country and to identify correctly then free it of the principal ills that blight its governance is noble – but I have no sense of solidarity with it. Further to that the ‘far-right’ in England the BNP/EDL, all seem to be first and foremost Zionist fiend friendly/funded raving Islamophobe authoritative-followers, to the exclusion of all else in terms of ideas, sucking up to the ill-gotten abusive power running the mind-poisoning media, the debt-slave racket and the money-conjuring machines. That said, for the Islamic religion, as with all religions, such prisons of the mind, superstitious weak-minded tomfooleries, with their holy books of fictional tales, their super-beings and earthly wizards I have no care, and much distaste but there are worse than even Islam, including that ugly supremacist one we’re all supposed to grovel to and which built and clapped us into the cages we’re currently languishing in which are destined to be our tombs. The dreaded demonised though impotent powerless treacherous and owned far-right are though far less damaging actual real threat and menace than the establishment Tories, the ultra-right Blairite infestation of the Labour Party or the holier-than thou Corbyn lot, the lesser evil but which will I assure you never do anything transformative, never do more than tinker with the periphery of economic and social injustice, serving our gaolers and tormentors more efficiently and gladly whilst promising tomorrow the moon on a stick. The left-right delusion, that meaningless distraction and instrument of control, with its cargo-cult bundled dogmas which by design cleave apart those who would otherwise unite and effect real change for the greater good of the most people, must be discarded once and for all, or we’re lost. There’s only the good and the evil, it’s Us vs. Them to the death and the only weapon we have and that only if we decline to play their divisive left-right, religious and other such mind-games is our sheer number.

    • Andyoldlabour

      @Tony M,

      Long post, mostly rambling, but most of what you have described is going on all over Europe – swap names and political parties.
      Two things are certain, you don’t seem to hold any party in esteem, and you don’t seem to have any answers.

      • Molloy


        Andy — Poor old Tone, “. . . .but English Independence and nationalism should flourish.”

        All humans. All responsible for one another.

        (A clip of the great David Threlfall follows).



          • Molloy


            What’s wrong with you?! Me today. Correction, ‘David Thewlis’.

            Apologies for that silly me.


          • Andyoldlabour


            If the people could stand together, then the elite at the top who always exploit the masses could be defeated, but the elite have the media on their side, and very often the education system, and they can combine to divide and conquer.
            When the finacial systems crashed, the elite bailed out their enables in the banking system and imposed austerity measures on the 90%.
            It was the elite – neocons and neoliberals who are responsible for the latest wars, which have thrown the Middle East into chaos, death and destruction, causing much of the refugee/migrant crisis, and all that in order to manufacture more and more arms so that more of the same can be assured.

          • Andyoldlabour


            I reckon it is undeniably a top down problem, and it is happening all over the EU, not just in the UK. The people who run the EU are an elite and have the power to interfere with any country’s budget plans, as they have with Greece and Italy, possibly with France in the very near future. When I say “interfere”, I really mean, that they insist that austerity measures are imposed, which affects 90% of the population, but has the most serious and destructive effects on the poorest in society.
            Of course, within the EU countries, there are political parties and leaders who will happily implement austerity measures – May, Macron, Merkel, Tusk, Juncker etc – and they all have one thing in common, they are incredibly wealthy and will never be personally affected by the measures which they are imposing on the majority of people.
            As for left and right, you have anarchists and snowflakes on the extreme left (think Momentum), and rabid racists on the extreme right.
            The MSM however, will try to put everyone else into one of these groups, despite the fact that most people are politically motivated by things which affect them personally.

        • Ken Kenn

          You are witnessing English Independence.

          It’s called Brexit.

          From Margate to Penzance the beacons are lit.

          Here’s the future:

          Independence for Scotland.

          Independence for Wales.

          A united Ireland ( eventually)

          Independence for London and its environs.

          Independence for the North.

          Independence for some of the Midlands.

          England will then be made up of Thanet West and various seaside towns where most people will have never have sen a refugee – a immigrant dark skinned worker or a Polish builder.

          Oh – I forgot Canvey Island.

          Fortunately I think I’ll be dead by then so sod the kids.

  • Sharp Ears

    Letter to the National Geographic Magazine ref the 9,000 year old find in Palestine. 9,000 years old, presumably pre-Abraham, and certainly pre-David, but the artefact was discovered in ‘Israel’.

    9,000-year-old mask stuns archaeologists, raises eyebrows
    The rare discovery was greeted with excitement but revived strong concern about the authenticity of these mysterious Neolithic artifacts

    Note the ‘Israel Antiquities Authority’s Theft Prevention Unit.’ in the piece. The irony there is overwhelming.
    Kristen Romey
    The Editor
    National Geographic.

    Dear Editor

    RE: 9,000-year-old mask stuns archaeologists, raises eyebrows

    Your article certainly raised eyebrows and strong concern for National Geographic deliberately misleading readers about the location of the rare discovery of the Neolithic stone mask in PALESTINE.

    Your piece suggests that the mask was found in Israel as no reference to PALESTINE was made.

    The irony was not lost regarding – “This 9,000-year-old limestone mask was recently recovered by Israeli anti-looting authorities.” given, by purposely masking the exact location, you are looting Palestinian culture and history in collaboration with Israel.

    A few minutes of online research would reveal that the Pnei Hever settlement is recognised by the United Nations as an illegal settlement on stolen Palestinian land. Its residents are notoriously aggressive and militant to Palestinian locals.

    Therefore, the mask should have been immediately handed over to the Palestinian Authority’s Department of Antiquities and Cultural Heritage or the Palestinian Ministry for Tourism and Antiquities.

    That the mask has been purloined by the Israeli Antiquities Authority is yet another instance of Israel’s trafficking of Palestinian culture.

    I strongly suggest that the article be rewritten as its present form is severely undermining the credibility of National Geographic.


    Dr Vacy Vlazna
    Justice for Palestine Matters
    Sydney, Guringai, Australia ‘

  • Molloy


    (Posted, and revised, on main commentary because log jam created by my corrections. Apologies.)


    Andy — Poor old Tone, “. . . .but English Independence and nationalism should flourish.”

    All humans. All responsible for one another.

    (A clip of the great David Thewlis follows).



  • Sharp Ears

    Medical alert @ Kensington Palace P. William calls in BLiar for advice on Middle East.
    What is going on?

    Revealed: Prince William invited Tony Blair to Kensington Palace to get his advice on the Middle East
    5 December 2018
    Prince William (pictured above) has apparently sought Tony Blair’s counsel on the Middle East
    Prince Charles is said to have privately condemned Tony Blair’s role in the 2003 military invasion of Iraq and derided the Labour Prime Minister for behaving like the ‘poodle’ of then U.S. President George W. Bush.

    Q Why did his father go to Washington to attend the Bush funeral.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Sharp Ears December 6, 2018 at 14:24
      ‘..Q Why did his father go to Washington to attend the Bush funeral…’
      Birds of a feather. He was also a great friend of Jimmy Savile, and stayed at his remote Scottish cottage (I wonder if Tony Bliar ever visited his cottage? He liked ‘cottaging’.

    • Geoffrey

      His father was president in his own right and pursued a very different Middle Eastern policy to his son. Unlike his son he made an attempt to stand up to the Israeli lobby.

    • N_

      I don’t know why some seem to think Stephen Bannon will back a “UKIP 2” led by Nigel Farage. It seems to me more likely that Bannon will back the continuing UKIP which may soon be led by Tommy Robinson.

      The horse-trading and backstabbing have probably already begun regarding what shape the Leave campaigns will take for the next referendum.

    • Geoffrey

      Similar comments have been made about Tony Blair ,he is still very popular amongst certain elements.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Can anything have been more disgusting than the fascist funeral of GHW Bush who almost had Reagan assassinated by mistake during the !980 presidential election over the “October surprise’ during the hostage release in Iran?

    • Republicofscotland

      Was Scott Hinckley a brainwashed stooge? And did the CIA aid and abet Hinckley, in the assassination attempt over Reagan’s CIA reforms proposals. Also did Bush senior see his chance to become POTUS sooner than later with Reagan out the picture?

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Trowbridge H. Ford December 6, 2018 at 15:31
      ‘ mistake..,? Who stood to become Presiident if Reagan had been killed? And I wondwer who cooked up and then leaked ‘Watergate’, with a similar result to if Reagan’s assassination had come off?

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Read the article mentioned. Hinckley apparently tried to shoot Pappy Bush, but the security people so protected him that Hinckley settled on shooting the Gypper, an easy target for him.

        Watergate was basically not his business, It was Haig, and Harvey’s Plumbers.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            Doubt he left before the kickoff. Stayed to make sure it went according to Harvey’s plan, and when it didn/t with Connally being shot, and living to say as Governor, he was going to get those who had apparently double crossed him.

            Paappy Bush must have had his hands full in Dallas for a few days,

  • Sharp Ears

    Look out for a new film, described as absurdist and dark, ‘Sorry to Bother You’, which sounds different to the usual slush.


    Boots Riley has maintained that the film offers a radical class analysis of capitalism, rather than a specific analysis of America under President Trump, clarifying that he wrote the initial screenplay during the Obama administration, and that the target was never any specific elected official or movement, but rather a broader look at “the puppetmasters behind the puppets.”

    While the majority of the final script remained the same, minimal changes were made prior to shooting in order to avoid the film appearing to be a critique of Trump specifically, including removing a line where a character says “Worry Free is making America great again,” written before Trump would use the line in his 2016 presidential campaign.’

    • Ian

      It’s an excellent film, for the first half at least. The sort of film Spike Lee should have made.

  • Republicofscotland

    Meanwhile the Prince of Parliamentary Pomposity, Boris Johnson, who said that £250,000 pounds for his Telegraph column as payment is chicken feed, has had to apologise for not declaring £52,000 pounds worth of earnings to the Commons.

    Johnson who was an embarrassment as Foreign secretary, and who also fled like a frightened child after leave won, said he did not intend to decieve the House.

    No just the British public with regards to Brexit.

      • Republicofscotland


        No I didn’t know that, all very interesting, I have read that BoJo is a distant relation to the Queen though.

        • Tatyana

          I’m greatly impressed by the quantity of diplomats, lawers, politicians with long rich ancestry – barons von this, earl von that, minister of this country, president of that country, married to some contry’s marquise …
          Oh my, don’t you have enough common people to put them in government to serve to their ordinary compatriots?

          • Molloy


            Tatyana — Nice observation.

            Some normal humans in $UK simply regard aristocracy as inbred $retards$ riding on the criminal coat tails of a warmongering, so-called democratic State, which only functions for the corrupt 0.1%.

            I enjoy your honest writing. Sláinte


  • Republicofscotland

    You’ve got to stand back and admire the French and their militant actions, as Macron’s arse caves in and he abandons fuel price hikes.

    If only the people of Britain had such resolve to get out there and cause mayhem, maybe the British government wouldn’t be so f*cking cocksure of themselves.

    Even with a million march against the illegal Iraq war, in London parliament just stuck two finger up at them a million Yellow Vest would’ve seen London in chaos, Blair might have thought twice about kissing Bush’s arse.

  • glenn_pt

    Dang. It’s hot down here. Getting tired of the relentless sun, too. How are things in the UK these days – everyone getting along like one big happy family?

    Gosh, I miss the UK.

    • Ian

      Media Lens have been peddling the same Chomsky line for years, and it hasn’t made an ounce of difference. Easy to fit everything into a pre-ordained mould. And exteremely repetitive. Such is the internet.

      • J

        And yet after all the sound and the fury dies away, they’ve been right, when it matters, far more often than the combined talents and the entire budget of The Guardian.

          • Ian

            True, but there are by far more half-truths, cobbled together accusations and assertions, misleading claims etc etc. Like here.

          • SA

            You seem to be missing the points made by medialens and Chomsky and other ‘dissidents’. The nature of the beast to be slain is that it controls all the main information channels and this has to be exposed. Whether this makes an immediate difference or not is not the measure of success. For example we all know that Blair and others conspired in a war of choice that lead to the death of at least one million Iraqis and major destabilisation. Blair still continues to be free and making a lot of money, but that does not mean that he and the media who still support him are right.

          • Ian

            SA, that may have been more the case (though not totally) in the past, but doesn’t really apply in the same way now, thanks to this thing called the internet. I know about Chomsky’s claims, and I have had a (very civil) dialogue with the Media Lens guys and we agreed to differ, but I still think it is a blanket generalisation which is not always borne out. There are decent journalist and good writers at not only The Guardian, and it is up to you or anybody to read accordingly.

  • MrK

    There has been a multi-billion dollar propaganda campaign against Zimbabwe. Radical landredistribution didn’t only threaten existing large estate holders, it threatens the mining industry. Zimbabwe has some of the world’s biggest diamond mines (Chiadzwa and Marange) and the diamond monopolists have a need to control those deposits or substantially lose their monopoly.

    Professor Ian Scoones of Sussex University has been researching landreform in Zimbabwe. Food security should be the last of anyone’s worries – economic sanctions like ZDERA 2001 (thank, Hillary) should be.

    Four myths about Zimbabwean land reform
    Ian Scoones | 01 February 2017
    Ian Scoones responds to Ben Freeth, says blaming ‘land reform’ for food insecurity highly problematic

    A new start for Zimbabwe? by Ian Scoones
    Ian Scoones, Challenges the myths about Zimbabwean agriculture and land reform
    15 September 2008

    Zimbabwe’s Land Reform: Myths and Realities (African Issues) Paperback – 18 Nov 2010
    by Ian Scoones et al. (Author)

    By the way the Zimbabwe Dollar was destroyed by economic sanctions, specifically the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001 – thanks, Hillary. Sponsor: Bill Frist, co-sponsors: Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Jesse Helms. Through Section 4C, they put a credit freeze on the Zimbabwean government in 2001, and the results can be seen in the chart.

    A lot of effort went into trying to make Zimbabwe’s landreform fail. They failed. Land reform won.

    Zimbabwean tobacco farmers reap big from sales boom
    CGTN Africa
    Published on Jun 3, 2017

    Even The Economist Asia sang the praises of landreform… in Asia. BTW, The Economist Group and De Beers are owned by the same family.

    (THE ECONOMIST) For Asia, the path to prosperity starts with land reform
    Countries that did it properly have grown fastest

    • certa certi

      ‘(THE ECONOMIST) For Asia, the path to prosperity starts with land reform…Countries that did it properly have grown fastest’

      The Economist piece contains errors. Rural Indonesia was and is dominated by small landholders who can’t make a living, hence the transmigration programs of several decades ago to Papua and Kalimantan. Dry land farming in Eastern Indonesia requires a rule of thumb 5 hectares just to feed a family with good rainfall, and can’t even do that during the frequent El Nino events. Land reform is important, especially for the Philippines. However, Nationalisation/expropriation without compensation is a bad principle. If Tyrannies of the extreme Left can do it then tyrannies of the extreme Right will do it.

    • michael norton

      Zimbabwe also has large deposits of Lithium,
      which the new world economy is rather keen to get hold of.

  • Sharp Ears

    Someone wrote about Steiner schools in a previous thread on here.

    Inadequate’ Steiner school to be taken over by academy chain
    State-funded Steiner Academy Exeter is seeking a new sponsor after damning Ofsted report
    6 Dec 2018

    A state-funded Steiner school in Devon is to be transferred to a multi-academy trust after the schools watchdog said it was inadequate.

    Ofsted inspectors raised serious concerns about safeguarding and lack of support for children with special educational needs and disabilities (Send) at the Steiner Academy Exeter, which opened in September 2013.

    The academy is one of a small number of Steiner schools set up as a result of the government’s controversial free school policy and paid for by public funds. Other Steiner schools in the UK are privately funded.


    • S

      What gets me about Steiner schools is that part of anthroposophy is to actively hide the most crazy and peculiar parts of their religion (to call it what it is) because ordinary people won’t understand. For example, they are anti-vaccination because, as far as I can tell, they think it interferes with karma. This is a horrible doctrine so they don’t say it openly. They are very active at deleting things from the wikipedia pages.

      I don’t like religious schools at all, but at least in a C of E school the C of E doctrine is plain to see, and open for discussion, rather than hidden.

    • N_

      The school will be “taken over by a new sponsor”. It sounds as though it will then go under the non-Ofsted inspection regime which many Steiner cult schools are already under, a regime that is largely controlled by the cult itself.

      Regarding “karma”, their attitude is that bullying is just “karma” playing itself out, so it’s nothing to be worried about and should be allowed to go on. They don’t express that view openly when the wrong ears are listening, but that is what these scumbags believe.

      The kooks have this thing about the number 7. Before the age of 7 a child is supposed to be incompletely “incarnated”, hence the “eurythmic” dancing which is to attract disincarnated “souls”. They will tear books out of children’s hands if they are reading them before they are 7 too. The form teacher follows the children through the school, i.e. children have the same form teacher all the way through. You can imagine how indoctrinated they are. The cult teachers that physical, astral, mental and spiritual bodies all incarnate at different ages. Children who are upset and feeling the pressure can be diagnosed as having “incarnation problems”. Astrology is also used in reaching such diagnoses.

      The teachers are indoctrinated nuts who believe their souls previously incarnated in black bodies and then made it higher up the ladder of races until now, when they reside in white bodies of the “root race” of this epoch, preparing for the coming epoch. (Watch out for their use of the word “era” or “epoch”.) “Extinction” is also one of their notions. Can you believe that one of these psychos is Secretary-General of NATO? The Rees-Mogg family also has close links. Michael Gove helped this cult. Prince Charles praises Steiner in his dimwit kookhouse book “Harmony”. Berlusconi sent his children to Steiner schools. Ever wondered what the Norwegian “seed bank in preparation for a coming extinction” was all about?

      When they fill in forms declaring their ethnicity, Steiner teachers would, if they could, fill in “my soul has incarnated in physical bodies of various different ethnicities”, but they know that normal people think that’s fucking crazy, so they “humour” us by filling in “white”. They do a lot of humouring.

      As for “biodynamic” farming, that’s about burying cowshit in cow horns and then digging it up. Heinrich Himmler had a “biodynamic” farm. The Steinerite cult has spent a lot of effort trying to obscure this, emphasising that some Steinerites got into trouble with some Nazis, saying that was only what Himmler did in his free time as a private person, and so on. Many SS officers rebranded themselves as only harmless Steinerites after WW2. Then the Green party got founded.

      They have wormed their way into various “refined” circles through their distribution of “biodynamic” wine.

      They stomped on any proper criticism of themselves on Mumsnet.

      They may well appear on this thread soon.

      • N_

        Oh and they stir the cowshit in a figure of 8. When it gets dug up, it’s often by officials from what the cult calls its “first class”.

      • S

        It’s refreshing to hear some proper description of what goes on. In a way it is amazing that they get such a free pass in the media. Perhaps many journalists are Steiner educated. This also makes it surprising that Ofsted dared to take action: it must have been pretty horrific.

        I get the impression that many children make it through the schools without consciously knowing much about anthroposophy; this is probably part of the plan. So they present themselves as innocuous slightly-hippy schools and happily allow confusion with Montessori.

    • N_

      A little-known fact is that the coiner of the term “organic farming” was the 4th Baron Northbourne, a Steinerite “biodynamics” nutcase. He also translated The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times by Stephen Bannon’s “traditionalist” hero René Guénon.

      Rachel Carson, author of the later “Silent Spring” was Steinerite-linked too.

      It’s all there for whoever wants to find out about it.

      Everyone who uses the term “organic farm” uncritically is channelling a Steinerite far right-wing meme. All food is organic. Nobody eats rocks.

      @S – Regarding Steinerites and vaccination: I’m against most of the officially encouraged vaccines too, but for totally different reasons. In Famine in England, Viscount Lymington openly decried the falling prevalence of tuberculosis. Prince Philip has expressed a similar view, saying that if he gets reincarnated (reincarnation being a common belief among these nutcases) he would like to come back as a killer virus. How much of an antisocial psycho can a person be? I don’t know whether the 4th Baron Northbourne bothered to turn up to the House of Lords to vote on the National Health Service Bill in 1946, but if he did I can guess which way he voted.

  • Jude 93

    CM says he realises he is proposing very radical measures. Actually they don’t sound very radical to me at all. How about confiscating the entire wealth of his generous pizza-buying buddy,George Soros? Bill Gates? Sheldon Adelson? Rupert Murdoch? Richard Branson (not just what he makes from privatisation)? Jeff Bezos? The Koch Brothers? Warren Buffet? The Rothschilds? Goldman Sachs and the rest of the predator banks? How about all of these folk starting to work for a living?

    If the South African govt confiscated all the megabanks and the transnational corporations that profited enormously from the ANC’s spineless embrace of neoliberalism, that would be brave and radical – not picking on powerless Boer farmers – folk who are widely despised by the left-liberal bien pensant classes, and the western corporate media.

  • kashmiri

    We have been through it. It was called the October Revolution. Palaces were confiscated and turned into social housing. Works of art and culture, not appreciated or understood by vodka-drinking proletariat, were burnt and destroyed forever. Turning large estates into social houses is as stupid as it can get. Firstly, the very idea of collective social housing is discriminatory and usually ends up in creating ghettos. The humane way is to subsidise social tenants so that they are able to rent wherever they feel like living. Secondly, look at what the Revoliution did: qualified people, those who were paid more for their skills and knowledge, were executed and factories were taken over by “the working class” with zero management experience, and as a result the economy collapsed.

    Land reform should never be done the Robin Hood way, by simply taking away from the rich and give it to the poor. This is exactly what you do NOT do in properly managed international development. The poor also need dignity, they do want to earn their livelihood. If you want to do assist in redistribution of national income, there are many more efficient and civilised ways than the Robin Hood or Soviet Revolution style. Unless, of course, your motivation is not that much helping the poor than denigrating the owners.

    • Xavi

      “Land reform should never be done the Robin Hood way. The poor also need dignity .. want to earn their livelihood”

      Suggests a belief that the big landowners and rentiers have earned their livelihoods.

    • Tatyana

      You point is one-sided. Proletariat was the most poor class of then-existing society. They had literally nothing, no land, no property, just their hands to earn their living. How do you like 12 working hours at a plant? Children’s labour? Expencive medical aid, bad nutrition, abscence of any private property or social lifts.
      You forget revolution in 1905, you forget multiple strikes and protests up to 1917.
      I’m dissapointed with your comment, you describe uneducated lazy drunkards, who stole property from nice educated people working hard for country’s prosperity. It is not true.
      The reason is utter social inequity. Elites were happy in their luxury houses with their pieces of art, while workers were starving and died from tuberculosis.
      When I see someone writes “bad communists took the factory from my great grandfather” I’m angry, because it is my grand grand father who worked at the factory at the age of 10 and died of malnutrition. But who cares, er, kashmiri? Lots of them died, one more, one less. Works of art are unique, not workers.

      • Tatyana

        Yet, I agree with the last paragraph of your post, kashmiri. There are many ways of redistribution.
        Before 1917, Russian privileged and rich should not stay blind and deaf to the needs of people. If you are in power, why not creating new jobs? Charity hospitals? Why spending fortunes for diamond necklaces instead of building public schools?
        Many just took their money and fled abroad. Nothing changed, they still do the same.

  • Ray Visino

    We suffer from a near feudal system still surviving in his country. Nobody knows who owns a third of the county as no documents have been submitted but all old inherited land comes from dubious sources including the mass replacement by the Normans in England and the English takeover of Scottish lands.

  • Sharp Ears

    Tatyana spoke of the perceived elitism in this country and its structures.

    This is how it begins. From birth to a private preparatory school and then to a public (a misnomer) school like Eton followed by time at Oxford and Cambridge. Having rich privileged parents is a requirement too.

    ‘Eight of Britain’s most elite schools sent 1,310 students to Oxbridge in three years… MORE than the total from another 2,894 schools combined
    Eton, which charges £40,000 per year, Westminster and St Paul’s for Boys were in the top eight. According to the study, public school pupils were seven times more likely to attend Oxbridge

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      PUBLIC schools are a misnomer, so call them out for what they are private schools.
      Class privilege is the most outstanding feature of the English psych from an outsider’s perspective (outstanding not in a good way). Hint; there is a hereditary head of state.
      Even where the head of state is a ceremonial function such as Ireland, having an elected head of state is a valuable opportunity for the electorate to signal change. When Mary Robinson was elected President of Ireland in 1990 she ran as an Independent candidate. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael put up their regular male, middle aged party functionaries. The people voted for Robinson as a message that a new, modern Ireland had arrived.

    • Tatyana

      I don’t know your governing system, perhaps it is representing your society.
      It is hard to imagine for me (as living in Russia) that majority of your society is so elitist, thus all those Lords are democratically elected to write laws, form opinions and make decisions in behalf of all people of Britain.
      Elites in Russia think of their own pockets and of staying in power as long as possible.

  • Sharp Ears

    ‘Gavin’ slipped this one whilst nobody was noticing,

    Defence Secretary announces £400m investment for nuclear-armed submarines
    Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has today announced a £400 million funding boost for the Dreadnought programme, as he opened a new training academy and revealed the name of the second Dreadnought submarine.
    6 December 2018
    From: Ministry of Defence and The Rt Hon Gavin Williamson CBE MP .
    The planned funding release, which supports the building phase of the programme, came as the Defence Secretary unveiled a £25 million BAE Systems academy that will upskill employees to work on Royal Navy submarines for the next two decades.

    The £400million investment will safeguard more than 8,000 jobs in Barrow and across the UK, which are all supported by the £31billion Dreadnought programme and supply chain.

    Reminder. There is NO money,

    • Ingwe

      For what service to the nation did that odious sh*t Gavin Williamson receive a CBE? We really have to scrap our so-called honours list.
      He’ll be nominated for the Nobel Peace prize!

  • bj

    Chomsky is 90 today. Celebrate!

    Sharp Ears: I missed your posting the other link. Sorry.
    Filleting ‘news’ (fake news) that way is essential.

    Look ‘ma no evidence’ Harding is getting away with wholesale character assassination.

    • Hmmm

      FFS!!! Another Great Hunger! !! What a callous thing to say. Really no idea of British history… she’ll go far in the Tory party!

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Opting for the European Free Trade Area, the Norway option (together with Iceland and Lichtenstein) was theoretically on the table. Whether this was an acceptable option is a matter of opinion.
    Seems political sentiment in Norway is against the UK joining, and they have a veto. The protocols for the partners within the three state EFTA block allow veto over acceptance of new EU regulation. Faced with the possibility of being wed to the fanatically swivel eyed, little Englanders governing the UK the Norwegians are understandably reluctant.

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