A Question of Loyalty 1016


I was just talking to an old friend in the European Commission about Scottish Independence. He said within the Commission there would now be overwhelming support for it and for immediate Scottish membership of the EU. He then added “But please can you leave Dr Fox with the English?”.

He was joking, but it led me to think about the loyalties of Unionist politicians. I don’t doubt Dr Fox would stay with the English – there will be no power in prospect for Tories in Scotland.

When asked in an interview during the last Indyref where his loyalty would lie if Independence won, then Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael replied without hesitation that of course he was a Scot and he would be loyal to Scotland. Where, I wonder, would Fluffy Mundell’s loyalties lie? The border is a short hop for him. Colonel Ruthie Davison has always had her eyes on high office at Westminster, and I expect she would be quickly down the A1. As for Labour, I don’t suppose anyone in England especially wants Richard Leonard. To be fair, I suspect Gordon Brown is not going anywhere and would reconcile himself to being the Scot who, in his own mind, saved the World. Wouldn’t it be lovely if J K Rowling upped sticks and went to be closer to her beloved Tony Blair?

With Scotland in the EU and England outside, would Andrew Neil be allowed to “queue jump” and stay as a top Tory at the England and Wales Broadcasting Corporation? Or would he fall victim to a hostile environment? Surely the mighty Laura Kuenssberg would demand a larger field for her snide right wing jibes than her home country?

I offer the “which way would the unionists jump” game to those of you whose minds have been frazzled by the banal spectacle of the results of British hubris, as relayed to us from Westminster all week. The game works much better with a few drams of Caol Ila.


1,016 thoughts on “A Question of Loyalty

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  • Wikikettle

    I trust and admire Jeremy because he is not a typical politician. Benjamin Zephaniah in a previous BBC Question Time summed up the forces lined up against him. Benjamin even said that Jeremy should not be in politics because its so dirty and he’s not in it for his own ego or power. Well that’s why so many people support him and others find him a threat, some I am afraid will want him ‘dead or purged’ ! I have said this before on this site, I really fear for his life. He has little support from his own MP’s who have sold out. The lies and vitriol against him were listed in the Michael Gove speech. There is no point Jeremy being PM, till he has a new crop of MP’s, to replace the pro war, pro Israel and pro revolving doors – rotten, corrupt to the core crop, that dare to call themselves Labour.

    • John Goss

      Anybody who applies for this before it is certain that we are leaving Europe needs advice and help. It is just another government spy-tool. We know who you are! We have your name! We have your number! We know everything about you!

      “I am not a number.”

      Remember The Prisoner? If you can you will understand what a terrible life the Skripals must be leading (if they are alive). It has been 6 months since they were heard from when Yulia told her Cousin Viktoria she was sorry for criticising her earlier when she had tried to visit because now she had access to the internet and knew everything – as I mention here.

      https://johnplatinumgoss.wordpress.com/2019/01/19/skripals-the-big-uk-blunder/

        • Rowan Berkeley

          @Doodlebug:
          The article is unable to name Pablo MIller, because of the ‘D’ Notice on him, but it does claim that a flase LinkedIn profile was created for him by GRU before the Salisbury operation, claiming falsely he had worked for Orbis Intelligence, thus attempting to smear him in advance as being somehow in league with Chris Steele. That sounds improbable to me.

        • John Goss

          Wonderful how the Torygraph comes to the aid of nasties like Christopher Steele with his dodgy dossier on Trump and Pablo Miller, alias Paul, alias Antonio Alvarez de Hidalgo who recruited Sergei Skripal.

          The only way to get the Skripals points of view, if they are alive, is by accusing our government of having murdered them. I make no excuses in doing that because as the Russian press is pointing out media were allowed to visit and photograph Litvinenko. Why my government is continuing with this disinformation is puzzling. Six feet is enough for a grave. They just keep on digging. Is anybody buying this? Even the once regular dissidents must, by their silence, realise what a load of tosh the story has been from atart to finish.

          Thanks Doodlebug!

          • John A

            Apropos media being allowed to visit Litvinenko, prior to the deathbed photo opportunities, his head was shaved. His hair did not fall out due to radioactivity or similar, which the image intends to suggest.

          • Doodlebug

            Hello John

            I answered a recent comment of yours elsewhere with “I’m inclined to see the Skripal affair in a more prosaic light than that of a ‘false flag’”. However, having immersed myself in the topic of late, a concatenation of various aspects now gives me cause for unease.

            In October last, Security Minister Ben Wallace said of the GRU that they ‘couldn’t run a bath’, the implication being that MI6 are more than capable of doing so (it is they who bought Sergei Skripal his Salisbury house). Within 48 hours of the Salisbury incident Boris Johnson was pointing the finger at Russia in the HoC. Treason May joined in later.

            No doubt, as in the case of Tony Blair and the ‘Iraq dossier’, the government were being fed information from backstage. But on what basis could they even assume the circumstances in Salisbury capable of supporting the accusation of a nerve-agent attack by anyone, let alone Russians? Was the backdrop a given? Could that account for the fortuitously prompt appearance on the scene of a top army nurse?

            Rob Slane has elsewhere alluded to the serious possibility that, far from being a potential source behind the ‘golden showers’ dossier aimed at discrediting the Donald, Sergei Skripal could conceivably have been the author. That would have provided one heck of a motive for HmG to shut him up. And why should the police have given Charlie Rowley a ‘get out of jail free’ card in relation to the unfortunate death of his partner Dawn Sturgess. He was the last person to see her fully conscious after all.

            Worryingly (since I have long held to the view that both poisoning incidents were accidental), I can envisage a situation in which Charlie was invited to conduct his business in the usual manner, but “this time leave the top off the bottle”.

          • John Goss

            Doodlebug, one thing to my mind is quite clear, the Skripal poisoning and the Dawn Sturgess death are two entirely different incidents set so long apart they could not be connected in any way. There was never any threat to the public of Salisbury from the Skripal incident. We know that now from the first responders who are fine. My main suspect is the man who took the last photograph of Sergei and Yulia with his small camera reflected in the mirror. Why have the police not interviewed him? Is that man the much sought after Pablo Miller?

        • John A

          Re The Telegraph piece, based on ‘well-placed sources say…’

          More Integrity Initiative bullsheet

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Doodlebug January 21, 2019 at 10:48
          ‘…Craig Murray, Britain’s former ambassador to Uzbekistan who quit in protest at the West’s support for the country’s brutal dictator, was one of those leading the charge….’
          The Telegraph article is wrong about Craig ‘resigning’ – he was made redundant.
          ‘….Last night Mr Murray accepted he had never found evidence of the LinkedIn page but thought it unlikely Russians’ would have planted the link more than a year before trying to kill Skripal.
          He now accepted the two Russian men were involved but was uncertain they were GRU agents. Col Skripal, he believed, was still a likely source for the Mr Steele’s Trump dossier….’
          New one on me that Craig accepts that the two Russkis were involved…

          • Doodlebug

            Has Craig recently been interviewed on the subject by the Telegraph or others? It seems the Telegraph is unexpectedly keen to make a case. No smoke without fire they say.

        • Clark

          Are we really expected to believe that an MI6 officer can have a profile falsely claiming to be him, posted into a place as public and influential as LinkedIn, for a year, and MI6 failed to notice?!

          I think by now I’m well known for deriding conspiracy theories. This looks to me like a UK government conspiracy theory – it would have to be a deliberate one, obviously. The alternative is incompetence theory, but if UK secret services are this incompetent then as taxpayers we should demand our money back.

          Since when did the Torygraph disappear behind a paywall? Very ominous, this paywall stuff, because it obstructs free usage. Unacceptable, because the media is part of the democratic system. With printed newspapers you can at least find them in waiting rooms, or get discarded ones the next day.

          • Clark

            We’re actually expected to believe that GCHQ, that monitors the whole world, hasn’t set secret service officers’ names as keywords, to keep tabs on what is being said about them on the Internet? Pull the other one mate…

            Where’s Radar O’Reilly? He’ll know, but I bet his employer won’t permit him to comment about this one.

        • Clark

          And why wait nearly a year from the Salisbury incident before mentioning this vital fact? Pablo Miller’s name was mentioned almost immediately, and not just by Craig. Craig blogged about the LinkedIn profile; you’re not telling me a whistleblowing ex-ambassador’s blog isn’t monitored. Surely the denial should have been issued as soon as Craig flagged up Miller’s profile?

          Because it took the a year before anyone thought up this (lame) excuse is the only reason I can think of. “Intelligence services” is definitely a misnomer in this case.

      • Andyoldlabour

        @John Goss,

        Really excellent summing up John, and it does show what difficulties British nationals visiting Russia could now face.

    • nevermind

      thanks for that sharp ears. Just had a look, those who have ‘indefinite leave to remain’, or’ indefinite leave to enter the UK’ do not have to apply. But the majority will want to be sure to be sure and pay up.
      If you take 3.2 million as some will have leave to remain this scheme will bring in 280million, just about enough to pay for an ancient convoluted, ineffi9cient and fraudulent general election campaign.

  • Sharp Ears

    That QT. Another dirty trick was played on Diane Abbott. Can you imagine the uproar if the same had been done to a Tory?

    ‘Martyn Ware is a founder member of the famous bands The Human League and Heaven 17 – and also a producer, sound engineer and a visiting professor at Queen Mary University London. Ware’s verdict was unequivocal:

    martyn ware
    @martynware
    Re Diane Abbott on QT…
    As a sound expert, I can confirm that Abbott’s microphone was deliberately turned down (and the others turned up) to make her sound weaker, and to make it more difficult for her to defend herself
    9:36 AM · Jan 19, 2019 from Camden Town, London · Twitter for iPhone’

    The BBC has denied any wrongdoing, but Ware’s verdict quickly went viral on social media and provoked hundreds of condemnations of the broadcaster, as well as being shared thousands of times on Twitter.’

    • able

      “As a sound expert, I can confirm that Abbott’s microphone was deliberately turned down (and the others turned up) to make her sound weaker, and to make it more difficult for her to defend herself”

      But he can’t “confirm” it. It’s just his opinion. And he’s a Labour “activist” by the way, so his opinion should he treated with caution.

      • able

        To be fair, though, turning Abbott’s microphone down would be doing her a favour anyway as the audience would be less likely to hear her making a fool of herself. Perhaps these BBC sound techs are actually Labour supporters?

        • D_Majestic

          The only people there who made a fool of themselves were the economic illiterates in the audience and on the panel. Hope they’ve planted their turnips.

    • Clark

      This isn’t the first time there have been problems with BBC microphones and Diane Abbott. Remember the hit piece in which a very anti-government Syrian woman confronted Abbott, whereas Abbott had obviously been led to expect something else? Abbott was wearing a heavy necklace, and her lapel mic had been placed in contact with it so that her voice was continually obscured by clunking noises. It seems a very unlikely mistake for a sound engineer to make, and in any case it would have shown up in the sound check.

    • able

      The smart money was always on Gove. Its certainly not going to be Mogg (another fail from N_ , who can’t seem to get anything right!).

    • GFL

      Watching Gove speak in the house last week, I was trying to see where he hides his knife. I finally concluded that it must be at the blacksmiths being honed to a fine point, ready to plant firmly between T M’s shoulder blades at the very first opportunity.

    • William

      G.d help us is right. Him and others are the real puppet masters of Brexit. Fox and Hound Boris are his chums.

  • able

    “Prince Philip crash mum blasts royals as they ‘haven’t even said sorry’ over smash trauma.”

    You have to see the compo face. It’s an absolute classic of the genre!

    • Andyoldlabour

      @able

      “You have to see the compo face. It’s an absolute classic of the genre!”

      What genre would that be – an innocent person who has been hit by a careless/dangerous driver?

      • able

        Most people get on with it in private with an insurance claim. Indeed that’s what the others are doing. Only the chav has gone to the papers with a sob story demanding compensation.

        • Clark

          No one can “get on with it in private” when they’ve been splashed all over the ‘news’ media because a royal was responsible.

          That’s so obvious it shouldn’t need mentioning. I think MI6 are hiring people of your calibre.

        • Clark

          Divinely executed, unfortunately. I think God was persuaded to take a course in management techniques some time between then and Psalms, probably right after Job’s unfortunate encounter with him.

  • able

    Meanwhile another 16 illegal immigrants have been detained after seperate landings on UK shores. Mostly Iranian it should be added.

    • Sharp Ears

      Have you completed your droppings for the day? Did you post on here before under another name?

    • Laguerre

      All Iranian or Iraqi Kurds as far as I know. The Iranian Kurds are being used by the West (including UK) to destabilise the Iranian government, so I suppose some are being diverted by their paymasters to invade Britain to create a fake crisis and sense of fear in UK. There’s no other reason to flee Iran.

      • Andyoldlabour

        @Laguerre

        I think a lot are just ordinary, young, male Iranians who have used a loophole to get into the EU.
        Serbia was handing out visas to Iranian citizens and they were flying to Serbia (the aircraft were returning virtually empty), then using the porous borders to escape to any one of a variety of neighbouring EU countries.
        I believe Serbia has now stopped handing out the visas, but it will take a time before the migrant flow stops.

        • Laguerre

          Yes I know about the Serbian visa agreement. I was going by the names of those individuals who reach the media. They’re all Kurds, not just any Iranians. Very strange, has to be a reason for it.

  • Tatyana

    for those who are interested in how events in Scotland are described in Russia.

    Scotland waiting for “the right moment to secede from the UK”, by Vladimir Kornilov

    “… in December 2013, the gap between supporters and opponents of the Scottish secession exceeded 20% – in favor of the opponents of the secession, of course.
    … (*due to) calming polls … London reacted quite condescendingly to that referendum. However, just a couple of weeks before…September 18, 2014, polls began to show stunning results for the British.
    … London … launched a massive campaign of agitation among the Scots. The leaders of all the major parties in Britain united, sacredly promising significant preferences to the northern brethren, including financial ones (which, by the way, was not fulfilled and which the current authorities do not like to recall).
    … Scottish National Party … in the national parliamentary elections for the first time in history, won in almost all constituencies, received 56 seats in the British parliament out of 59 possible (for comparison: over 40 previous years, they never received more than six seats).
    … Scottish nationalist leaders achieved their technological goals, got everything they wanted out of the referendum, and calmed down… The then Prime Minister of Britain, David Cameron, said that such a referendum can be held only once a generation, and perhaps for all the time.
    Brexit changed a lot, if not all. Literally right after the referendum, all polls showed an abrupt rise in separatist sentiment in Scotland… However, it was a short surge of emotions. After a couple of months the mood of the Scots returned to their previous positions.
    … the idea that, in the event of a real withdrawal of Britain from the European Union, it would be necessary to raise the tough question of secession of Scotland, continued to be discussed in society.
    … curious that at the Brexit referendum, 62% of the inhabitants of the region voted against leaving the EU. However, most of the polls, both before and after the referendum, showed that there are much more Europhiles in Scotland. The reason is that during the Brexit campaign, many supporters of the SNP, including “eurofiles”, unexpectedly called for a vote on Britain’s exit from the EU. It is in order to promote the growth of separatist sentiments in Scotland itself.
    … Gordon Wilson (from 1979 to 1990, he was the undisputed leader of the SNP) told Reuters that many Scottish nationalists, being EU supporters, were ready to vote for secession from the EU. He explained – in this case Scotland would have more chances to gain independence.
    … Now the Scottish nationalists make use of the blatant political chaos that prevails in Britain around Brexit. SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon last week … said that her party was preparing a second referendum on the independence of Scotland. Very few people doubt that this will be announced immediately after the fate of Brexit is finally determined.
    And this time, the Scottish separatists have a chance to realize their dream. We cannot yet say what is the public sentiment … after the failure of the May Brexit plan – apparently, Sturgeon also awaits for the results of fresh polls.
    … “We must hold a second referendum when we can win it,” explains one of the veterans and leaders of the SNP, a member of the British parliament, Pete Wishart. And now London is actively bringing this moment closer with its everyday crises.

    Source in Russian is here
    https://ria.ru/20190121/1549631121.html
    you may want to use some translation tool to read the whole text

    • Republicofscotland

      Fairly accurate reporting there Tatyana, timing is everything and the most appropriate time is almost upon us. Breaking the union is a must, it will be a joy filled day that we cast Westminster aside.

    • Mist001

      No chance of another Article 30 from Westminster, so that puts an end to any idea of a second referendum.

    • Sharp Ears

      and another on Palestine on Saturday in spite of Mark Thompson’s presence on the board. He left the BBC to become the President and CEO of the NYT company.

      Time to Break the Silence on Palestine
      Martin Luther King Jr. courageously spoke out about the Vietnam War. We must do the same when it comes to this grave injustice of our time.
      Jan. 19, 2019
      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/19/opinion/sunday/martin-luther-king-palestine-israel.html

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thompson_(media_executive)#Accusations_of_pro-Israeli_editorial_stance
      Perhaps he has seen the light since he met Sharon with his wife Jane Blumberg.

    • pete

      Thanks for the link.
      The New York Times article is both uncannily accurate and yet strangely ironic, in view of their own government shut-down.

    • giyane

      “…how Louis Mountbatten, accurately described by the right-wing historian Andrew Roberts as a “mendacious, intellectually limited hustler,” …

      An epithet which perfectly fits Messers Fox, Rees-Smug ( thank you Rhys, classic ) Johnson, and their commode, Mrs May.

      • Charles Bostock

        Yes, Andrew Roberts did write that, in his book “Eminent Churchillians”.

        Andrew Roberts was quite big for a while with his brand of “daring” revisionism. In that book he also had a go at Churchill himself, Walter Monckton, Arthur Bryant et al. As that other egregious revisionist – I refer of course to disgraced historian David Irving – he builds his cases by a very selective use of archives and source material.

        We hear a little less of Andrew Roberts these days, he’s had his 15 minutes of fame and the punters have moved on.

        Somewhat surprised that Guano should have quoted from him, I shouldn’t have thought they’d see eye to eye on very much.

        • giyane

          I’m as surprised as you,that your revisionism has not managed to revise the evidence of history that most of the English detested the colonial classes of the British Raj almost as much as the citizens of India detested them.

          Your empire2 fantasies ought to leave sleeping dogs alone. Empire2 means a repeat of ww1 &2 , with riffs in downing street sitting on their backsides yelling orders to troops on the battlefield

          If you didn’t speak better for your nasty nostalgic dreams.

        • Casual Observer

          Roberts is fast becoming the ‘Go Too’ historian, probably because he’s more readable than Beevor whose tomes are leaden to say the least ?

          As a result, I doubt he wants too many folk to remember his Eminent Churchillians, which was quite an entertaining work.

          • Charles Bostock

            Anyone who has read both would surely agree that Roberts’s Eminent Churchillians is as silly as its inspiration, Strachey’s Eminent Victorians. Or perhaps I should say “silly-clever”.

            The irony is, of course, that far from Stachey’s victims having fallen into the abyss of history, it is Strachey himself who has done so.

            And it’s fairly clear that Roberts’s victims will still be remembered positively ling after Roberts becomes just one in a list of yesterday’s men British historians.

            Remember Corelli Barnett? He was the Andrew Roberts of his day…..

      • Sharp Ears

        Andrew Roberts, the well known Visiting Professor to the Department of War Studies, KCL, joins many fellow warmongers there. They move between KCL and RUSI and certain ‘think tanks’.

        He is so full of himself that he opens his Twitter account with an ad.

        ‘Andrew Roberts
        ‏@aroberts_andrew
        21 hours ago
        ‘The best justification for this book is its sheer readability. In the unfashionable tradition of Gibbon, Trevelyan and Macaulay, Roberts writes gripping narrative history without deserting high scholarly standards.’
        Nigel Jones on ‘Churchill: Walking with Destiny’ History Today’

        Pure unadulterated chutzpah.

        Also this is shown at the top of a Google search.
        ‘Home – Andrew Roberts, British historian, British history writer, Masters …
        https://www.andrew-roberts.net/
        ‘Andrew Roberts is a great historian who is always relevant to contemporary thinking and contemporary problems.’ Dr Henry Kissinger.

        A glowing reference from Kissinger is akin to having one from Jack The Ripper.

    • able

      Another butthurt Indian. Someone tell Mishra that the responsibility for the violence of partition lies with the Muslim insistence on a seperate state. As for his clueless comparison with Brexit, the arrogant elite in this instance are the EU and their satraps, not the people who want to self-government..

      • Dungroaninin

        Oi Napoleon!
        The partition was made by the Battenberg coz his missus was bonking Nehru as well as losing a 300 year jewel of the empire.
        The nazi related cuckold left chaos and millions dead because his wife liked a bit of tasty brown meat rather than what he had to offer.

        • able

          Not sure what you-re on about here. All sides share some of the blame and Mountbatten was cartainly incompetent, but it was Jinnah and the Muslim League’s unwillingness to compromise that led to partition. The absurdity of having two parts of a country divided by 2,000 miles of hostile territory and then with more Muslims living in India than in Pakistan underscores what a pointless exercise it all was. People butchering each other because of differences in religion wasn’t the fault of the British. Indians leaders demanded the British leave and that’s what they did.

          • Republicofscotland

            “People butchering each other because of differences in religion wasn’t the fault of the British. ”

            Really?

            The British Empire was/is well known for its divide and rule strategy.

            “The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures, and especially prevents smaller power groups from linking up, causing rivalries and fomenting discord among the people. It was heavily used by British Empire in India and elsewhere.”

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

          • Dungroaninin

            Oi Oi Napoleon, you lying liar.
            There was no such thing as the country of India as you well know.
            They were mostly states with different peoples and languages as you well know.
            There was no muslim/hindu divide except the one created by the Cuckold Battenberg as you well know.
            The Indian ‘Leaders’ could have been left the subcontinent as it stood – THEY could have decided to have their own partitions or civil wars thereafter and Britain would have remained blameless instead of the architect of partition and massacre. As you well know, Napoleon.

          • Casual Observer

            Modest Clem and Cabinet had to get out of India on the hurry up because the UK simply did not have the money to be able to stay and keep order in the circumstances that existed immediately after the Japanese war. Mountbatten was simply the front man.

            Put it simply, its a wonder that the post war Labour government achieved the NHS, and the Welfare State. Certainly had the Tory’s been elected in 45, they would have attempted to hold on in places such as Palestine and India, but there would have been no Britain as we know it today ? Might be worth thinking about when pondering the apparent immunity of the Sub Continent to a couple of hundred years of British tutelage, and their willingness to slaughter their neighbours ?

        • Charles Bostock

          Dungroanin

          ” his wife liked a bit of tasty brown meat ”

          Your choice of words sounds rather racist to me.

          Should I perhaps write :

          “It may be that Dungroanin leaves hundreds of tasteless comments on CM because his wife likes the gardener’s broomstick rather than what he has to offer”?

          • Dungroaninin

            Lol Bossie, explain what part of my comment you consider racist as you rush to defend the undefense-Able?

            No you are not accusing the idiot for racism in “Another butthurt Indian. ..the responsibility for the violence of partition lies with the Muslim”
            Why not?

            “Hundreds of tastless comments” – you are projecting like a medical case study.
            Ever considered getting help?

        • Wikikettle

          Dungroaninin – If India was about to become independent, would it be in the Empires interest to promote division – create a new
          country – to insure the Bear remains in chains – the ‘Great Game’. Looking back, the creation of Pakistan, the wars with India, The significance of Afghanistan to this day – prevents Russia breaking out to a warm water port. Hopefully the new Empires grip on Pakistan will be broken. Its future lies in good relations with India. Even after partition there were more Muslims in India. The leaders of Pakistan and their military have been corrupted tools of US and the country is a basket case. I hope for its sake it becomes independent and develops economically.

          • Dungroaninin

            Agreed Wikikettle that Pakistan has been abused from the begining, whether the new world order imperialists always had it mind to use it in their coldwar strategy from the outset, i don’t know.
            The increasingly out of control CIA were certainly illegally operating out of there – long before fighting Russia in Afghanistan with their Mujahadeen, Talban, OBL cadres.
            For instance i bet many people are still not aware that
            ‘There were total of twenty four U-2 over flights over Soviet Union from 1956 to 1960. Out of twenty four, ten were launched from Pakistan. First five flights originated from Lahore and the remaining five from Peshawar. The first Soviet over flight from Pakistan took off from Lahore on August 05, 1957.’
            https://www.brownpundits.com/2014/07/31/eye-in-sky-us-pakistan-u2-and-so-on/

            [ Mod: Caught in spam filter, restored. ]

          • Dungroaninin

            (My reply to you WikiKettle just failed to post – i’ll write again)

            The NWO may have already had plans for using Pakistan in the cold war well before attacking Russia in Afghanistan using the Mujahadeen, Taliban, OBL …

            The increasingly out of control CIA were already making illiegal acts of war from there against the then presidents wishes.

            For instance I bet a lot of people are still unaware that –
            ‘There were total of twenty four U-2 over flights over Soviet Union from 1956 to 1960. Out of twenty four, ten were launched from Pakistan. First five flights originated from Lahore and the remaining five from Peshawar. The first Soviet over flight from Pakistan took off from Lahore on August 05, 1957’
            https://www.brownpundits.com/2014/07/31/eye-in-sky-us-pakistan-u2-and-so-on/

            [ Mod: Caught in spam filter, restored. ]

          • Wikikettle

            Dungroaninin – thanks for the brownoundits link. looks like the game of playing one off against the other is all Pakistan could do then as now !

      • nevermind

        yes how dare they throw out the UK and does not do as they are told, revisionism is alive and well, it happens here even before the 29th March. After all on the 1st. April the EU demands openness in all financial deals within tax havens and although we agreed and supported this act some 5 years ago, the City of London corp. Brexit moves tell us to shut up and take it like the dogs we so evidently are.

        • Sharp Ears

          The Tories favour April 1st for pulling their tricks out of the hat.

          I remember the Cameron/Clegg/Lansley Health & Social Care Act 2012 which came into effect on April 1st 2013, leading to the increasing privatisation of OUR NHS.

          ‘The proposals in the Act were not discussed during the general election campaign in 2010 and were not contained in the Conservative – Liberal Democrat coalition agreement of 20 May 2010, which declared an intention to “stop the top-down reorganisations of the NHS that have got in the way of patient care”.However, within two months a white paper outlined what the Daily Telegraph called the “biggest revolution in the NHS since its foundation”. The white paper, Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS, was followed in December 2010 by an implementation plan in the form of Liberating the NHS: legislative framework and next steps. McKinsey & Company who have been influential in the British Department of Health for many years was heavily involved in the discussions around the Bill. The bill was introduced into the House of Commons on 19 January 2011 and received its second reading, a vote to approve the general principles of the Bill, by 321-235, a majority of 86, on 31 January 2011.’

          What liars. Note how it came out of the blue and also McKinsey’s involvement in the NHS which continues to this day.

    • Clark

      In a similar vein (or shouldn’t that be ‘vain’?) to the New York Times piece:

      https://www.dumptheguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/parliament-mps-john-bercow-commons-brexit

      Note the URL. By adding “dump” before “theguardian” causes a redirect to archive.org, so you can read the Guardian article without boosting the Graun’s viewing figures and hence their advertising revenue. Explanation at fivefilters.org:

      https://theguardian.fivefilters.org/how-to-share/

      • Dungroanin

        That is excellent Clark, I had stopped linking to the graun for exactly that reason.
        It really is feeding click bait.

        Just add ‘dump.’ Infront of url!

        Probably bears repeating regularly.
        Thanks.

      • N_

        Voina continued after the formation of Pussy Riot and are in my opinion much more radical and not at all a bunch of pop stars like Pussy Riot who as you say are sponsored by the US government.

        By Voina I liked the “kiss the cops” action (great soundtrack too), the “this is what we think of the FSB” action, the blue bucket stuff, and other actions. Try doing something like a blue bucket action against gangsters in say Manchester.

        Pussy Riot aren’t that much better than Femen really who while they would be welcome to demonstrate outside my house are nonetheless paid by oligarch Vadim Rabinovich and don’t half like their expensive fashionable shoes.

        Is the distinction between radicals such as Voina on one side and “happening”-style pop stars and shock artists on the other akin to the distinction between the Populists and Social Revolutionaries on one hand who had some kind of genuine respect for (and knowledge of) “the people” and Bolsheviks on the other who were supported by the German government and by money from New York? Just thought I would throw that in 🙂

        • isa

          Werll for a pop group pussy riot have produced very little tracks (of awful noise I may add) . Voina frankly is on my most despise list when they threw live animals at McDonalds workers in a protest againt waged work. But these are the little things that are never mentioned in the Media that portray these idiots as activists for human rights.

    • John A

      Another anti Putin ‘protester’ crazy Russian ‘artist’ who nailed his scrotum to the cobblestones in Red Square and tried to firebomb the former KGB building in Moscow, for which he received a short prison sentence, was subsequently granted asylum in France. There he firebombed a Bank of France office and was put in psychiatric care.

      The Pussy Riot women and similar are treated as idiots in Russia, either ignored or given short sentences. These women are in absolutely no danger if returned to Russia. The Swedes may be a soft touch when it comes to asylum cases, but not completely stupid.

      • Tatyana

        John A, I think similar, except for ‘in absolutely no danger if returned to Russia’. Indeed, official attitude to these people is ‘they are idiots’, no doubt. But there are ordinary people, coleagues, neighbours, passers-by in the streets. Surely some of them will not be able to resist the temptation to somehow show their scorn.

        • John A

          Yes, the Pussy Riot stunt in the World Cup Final was really irritating. You are correct, some member of the general public might indeed want to have a go at them, I meant they would not be in any danger from the Russian government.

          • isa

            And what happens when anyone involves a pitch during an important football match? They are not given any airtime . Why was it different in this case and filmed and broadcast. The devil is in the details.

        • Charles Bostock

          Tat

          “Surely some of them will not be able to resist the temptation to somehow show their scorn.”

          You mean like the Cossacks did by whipping them?

          It took quite a bit courage for a few burly men with whips to hand it out to a couple of young women 🙂

          • Clark

            Apologies Charles, it seems that Associated Press really did call the men wearing pretentious uniforms ‘Cossacks’, though it looks like the most puny of the men were also the most violent, and one of the bigger men pushed the shithead with the whip away.

    • Tatyana

      thanks for invitation to comment, SA. the artickle is interesting

      I just don’t agree that Lusine was “unable to exhibit her art in galleries and museums” and “fired for political reasons”.
      She is awarded Silver Medal in 2010 and Golden Medal in 2012 by the Union of Artists of Russia, for contribution to the national culture.
      Her contract expired, that is why she no longer works at the Krasnodar State University Of Culture (this position is taken by a person who goes through a competition).

      Me personally don’t like what Pussy Riot do, the way they express their opinions is not decent and they are pretty aware of it. One may say ‘shocking things allowed for artists’ but I think it is slyness. In the case of Pussy Riot, shocking acts go along with open hostility and mockery upon their audience. It is not a dialogue with the spectators, it is pouring negative and inspiring hate. I do not doubt that he and her boyfriend were threatened in Russia. IMHO

      What is Sweden’s position on letting them in… I think it is similar to France’s position on Pyotr Pavlensky, another russian shock performer. These artists are good to jerk in russian cathedrals, but what if they decide to do the same in Sweden? Or, god forbid, in a Sweedish mosque? Will Swedish people admire this kind of art and take it with understanding and forgiveness? I think Sweden prefers not to check it out.

      Pavlensky used to come naked to his actions and injure himself, e.g. lying wrapped in barbed wire, cut his ear off, nail down his scrotum (sorry) to the stones sitting in Red Square, this kind of art.
      France reacted
      https://www.rt.com/news/448556-pavlensky-sentenced-france-arson/

      • SA

        Thanks Tatyana. What you write confirms my thoughts. Also the link by Isa is very interesting, thanks Isa. Maybe HMG should invite Pussy Riot to perform in St Paul’s Cathedral.

        • Tatyana

          Why at all they decided for Sweden? The best place for them is Ukraine at the moment. They could have government’s support for anti-Putin actions. Also, Ukrainian chirch is now divided in 2 parts: new Ukrainian autonomous church and traditional Moscow patriarchy church. Pussy Riot could perform in the latter’s cathedrals and find great support!
          At last, remember that hieromonk, hired by Putin to kill Babchenko but so patriotic that immediately turned to SBU? They could make friends with him 🙂

          • Charles Bostock

            Yes, the Ukrainian Orthodox church is now autocephalous, the Patriarch of the the Orthodox Church having courageously decided , in the face of great pressure from Moscow, th give his green light for this.

            One can of course understand both Bartholomeous and the Orthodox hierarachy in Kiev. In effect, the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox church in Moscow is simply an appendix of the Kremlin. As such, it served as an agent of ythe Kremlin for interfering in \ukraiunian affairs with the aim of destabilising the legitimate Ukrainian government.

            It is not nice to see the Church acting as the agent of the temporal power in the same way as the Russian Orthodox church has been acting. Hats off therefore to the Ukrainian Orthodox hierarchy, which has said enough is enough.

          • John A

            Tayana, there is an ongoing asylum case in Sweden with a Ukrainian woman who the Swedish government is trying to deport. Basically, she came as a tourist, overstayed but then got badly injured in a terrorism incident in which the driver mowed down several pedestrians in the centre of Stockholm. She had a leg amputated. She was given extensive treatment in hospital and a prosthetic leg but is now claiming she should not be deported because healthcare and disability support etc., is much poorer in Ukraine.
            The Swedish MSM are as propagandistic as other western media, Crimea is always ‘annexed’ by Russia, Ukraine always ‘invaded’ by Russian aggression, Russia is constantly threatening to invade Sweden, Lithuania etc., the MH17, the Azoz incident and the Skripals were villainous Russian deeds. Ukraine nazi rallies etc., are never mentioned.

          • Tatyana

            John A,
            Something strange is going on 🙂 I see an empty white space between our comments. And I see similar empty gap above in the discussion. Does anyone see this oddity too?
            *Seems I should add a new link under my nickname.

          • Tatyana

            As to the ukrainian woman, I can understand her appeal to Sweden. I’m sorry for her, as a human being to another human being, and as a woman to a woman, it must be terrifying experience to get injured so badly, yet in a terrorism incident.

  • giyane

    The BBC tells us this morning that Mrs May is going for No Deal. Is this 4th generation warfare psyops?
    Does Mrs May seriously think she can blow up a courthouse in Londonderry on the weekend and blast the backstop into oblivion on Monday morning? This seems rather a crude interpretation of Tory exceptionalism. The British State has always used terrorism against its colonies in the past. Now it thinks it can use terrorism against its own proles to get its way, much to our detriment.
    You can fool some of the people some of the time. Nobody in Ireland wants to sever the peace of the last 20 years. Dublin stands to get very rich as an alternative English-speaking City to London after we leave the EU.

    May threatening the DUP with a return to violence in Northern Ireland is the first time I have thought of her as a war criminal. But it suggests to me that the Alt-Right chimpanzees in her party, Gavin Williamson in particular, are now making the tea.

    • giyane

      able

      let’s see your teeth. You can’t eat the carpet in No 10, and No you can’t use the secret tunnel as your poo corner. Your trainer May need to use that tunnel in an emergency and the people in white coats might get their white shoes dirty.

    • Deb O'Nair

      Yes, very suspicious this “New IRA” group are. I first flagged them as a psyop months ago here when Gerry Adams house was attacked by loyalists and the “New IRA” engaged in what was reported as a retaliatory attack, even though Gerry Adams condemned it and Sinn Fein renounced violence almost 20 years ago. A few days later the Sunday Observer ran a piece explaining why the GFA was not good for NI and suggested that it was a failure that should be scrapped.

      There are many reasons why Republicans will not resort to violence, not least as Irish reunification becomes more likely, and why stoking up sectarian violence benefits the UDP and Tory parties, as well as protecting the “precious” union.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Deb O’Nair January 21, 2019 at 20:37
        In case their ‘Plan A’ for fomenting WWI with Germany failed, the British ‘Secret Elite’ arranged for the Loyalists to smuggle £100,000 worth of modern weapons sourced from Germany; they also arranged for the IRA to get some £12,000 of old weaponry sourced from Germany smuggled in.
        Object of the exercise, they were going to ‘arrange’ a ‘Civil War’ between the Loyalists and the IRA, then blame Germany for smuggling the arms to the IRA.
        However, they snuffed it in the bud, as their ‘Plan A’ worked a treat.
        See ‘Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War’ by Gerry Docherty and James MacGregor

  • Athanasius

    I’m not certain there would be “no power in prospect” for Tories in an independent Scotland. There must be some kind of small c conservative constituency which needs to be represented, although admittedly, the present Tory party in Scotland would need considerable reform.

  • Sharp Ears

    Back to QT and Ms Bruce.

    Bruce’s husband is Nigel Sharrocks, currently non exec chairman of Digital Cinema Media.
    ‘Digital Cinema Media (DCM), the UK market leader in cinema advertising, has appointed Nigel Sharrocks to the new role of Non-Executive Chairman. His responsibilities will include chairing DCM’s external board which comprises senior representatives from the leading cinema chains Cineworld, Odeon and Vue.’
    https://www.dcm.co.uk/news/digital-cinema-media-appoints-nigel-sharrocks-as-non-executive-chairman

    He has held 30 directorships and currently holds three.
    https://companycheck.co.uk/director/910439814/NIGEL–SHARROCKS/companies

    A tweet elsewhere suggests that government propaganda was put out by a company with which he was previously associated in the cinema advertising world. https://twitter.com/feats_fan/status/1087121897563832329

    That company Carat Insight Ltd was dissolved in 2013.
    https://companycheck.co.uk/company/02496207/CARAT-INSIGHT-LIMITED/companies-house-data

    I rarely go to the cinema these days but the only recent advertising I have seen is for other films and junk food and drink sold in the cinema, plus some for the latest toys and gadgets. It is interminable and lasts for at least 30 minutes.

    The Sharrocks/Bruce pairing must have a massive combined annual income. Her salary alone, before she had the QT job, was ‘for the 2016-2017 year in the £350,000 – £399,999 bracket.’ D Express. Both can have our attention either on the large cinema screen or on the smaller one in our home.

  • N_

    True words from Simon Jenkins: “‘Brexit with an open border’ is a fantasy.”

    Meanwhile a poll for Rupert Murdoch’s Sky finds that 56% say they’re opposed to another referendum. That’s fine. Let them stay at home and measure the curvature on their cucumbers and bananas while the rest of us go and vote for Remain.

    • michael norton

      Only those who wish remain,
      wish yet another referendum.
      More than one million more people voted for leave, than voted remain, which part of democracy do you not understand.

      • N_

        Your final question demeans you. I’ve never heard a lazy and dimwitted sarcastic question of that kind asked by somebody who is capable of constructing a proper argument.

        Meanwhile, Sky also finds that 26% of people think “No Deal” means “Britain stays in the EU”. I can believe it. My neighbour keeps on observing that “Leave” doesn’t seem to mean that Britain will throw out millions of Asian immigrants and undo decimalisation as she thought it meant when she voted for it. Ah, democracy, eh? You understand what it “means”, do you?

        • N_

          Certainly the reason I wish for another referendum is so that Britain can remain in the EU. However you can be sure there are Leave strategists who wish for a referendum too because they want a red in tooth and claw crashout and race war with it, which you might start to understand if you built up some willpower to look at how the rulers actually rule in an epoch of mass communications and how psychological warfare works and you didn’t ask annoying infantile questions such as “which part of ‘democracy’ don’t you understand?” Then there is Nigel Farage who is talking about running in the May EU elections in Britain (sic). That gives a window on how some are pushing, pushing, pushing.

        • michael norton

          The will of the people is to leave the european union.
          if you want to keep asking
          “do you want to stay”
          you will get the same answer.
          “we want to leave the european union”

          maybe those who want to be ruled by brussels should move to the continent and join in with the yellow jackets or the fascists in spain?

          • Mochyn69

            So you’ve asked all of them personally, have you norton?

            Of course not so your comment is, like the brexshit you appear to endorse, utter bollocks.

            And as for associating Remainers with fascists .. totally mental.

            >

          • SA

            Michael
            What makes you think that UK will be more ‘independent’ after Brexit? We have always been independent and have helped to shape some of the rules of the EU. What makes you think that our trade deals with the US for example are going to set us free?

          • nevermind

            And you can f..k off to Poland and mingle with the fascists there who are far more to your taste than whats left of a multicultural society here. Do it now/this year, whilst you are still in the EU, but be prepared, you will have to disclose your offshore holdings.

          • giyane

            Michael Norton

            Even the BBC concedes that not all leavers want an end to immigration. Mrs May is riding a populist , racist wave which the right wing MSM has created over 40 years. Ordinary people live and work with dozens of different nationalities, religions and sexual orientations. Maybe the people who for some reason can’t work manage to avoid befriending and being befriended by lovely people from different backgrounds.

            How do you know that your million extra leavers wanted to leave because of what Mrs May thinks, i.e. racism, and not because they do not want political collusion in the EU federal experiment that trashed Greece? She doesn’t know and you don’t know because nobody has asked them.

            One thing I do know however is that Mrs May;s withdrawal Agreement specifically says that even after we leave the EU , the British government and the EU want to collude and construct a new world order that continues the 30 years of war against Muslim countries we have seen in our lifetimes.

            Yes , I voted leave to break up the Federal power of the EU to attack those who you consider undesireables. I happen to think they are highly desirables whom we should not be attacking. Where they live is of no concern to me but they all want to live peacefully in heir own countries.

            Nobody knows why the Tories and the EU want to trash their lovely neighbours. In a correctly policed world it wouldn’t happen. Blair and Cameron would be in prison, with caviar being droned in daily, but still in prison. Mrs May’s only skill has been to pervert the will of those who want to leave Federal Europe, by riding a populist agenda of MSM created racism, an agenda this country has never followed previously since the end of WW2.

            Why can you not see that populist racism is the Trojan Horse by which the Tories want to sack our civilisation. It is now outside our gates. If we let it in, his country will be unliveable in. people who live in harmony together will have the green light to massacre eachother in the streets. USUKIS and EU would conquer the world without hindrance, demolishing all in their path. This also leads us inevitably to confrontation with our now more powerful friends Russia and China.

            The Empire2 Tories are so stupid they think we will let them open the doors to civil war and world war. No, we will not let them. The reason why 230 extra people voted against May’s crap than voted for it, is that they all know it’s a trumpet for war, civil and global, and maybe some of them want to live in peace in the world.

          • giyane

            At the moment , the only way to achieve peace is to remove the rabid Tories and elect the man of peace of out time, Jeremy Corbyn and his excellent people of peace team.

      • michael norton

        Leave 17,410,742
        Remain 16,141,241

        so one million two hundred and sixty nine thousand five hundred more people voted for Leave
        than voted for Remain.

        suck it up suckers

        • giyane

          I suck it, but not all the 17,410,742 leavers wanted to leave because they were racist, which is Mrs May’s stubborn misinterpretation of your facts. Have a nice ride on the racist bandwagon while it lasts, maybe 3 days.

    • giyane

      N_

      We have been living in Tory Wonderland for over two years and the EU has the huge satisfaction of being able to say that they lied to the British people where’s in fact the tories have only ever lied to themselves with their microphones still recording so they hear the echo of their rubbish from the larger bat cave.

      There is of course a conservation order on thè conservative party saying nothing can disturb them to which Jeremy corbyn has readily complied. If only on account of the stench.
      Tories know Labour can’t undo the stygian mountains of Thatcher dung listed as an SSI.
      However there is a real world to which interested parties could subscribe

    • able

      Not only does he not respect the result of the referendum, he doesn’t respect the fact that most people don’t want another one either. And yet here he is acting like his opinion is important.

      • nevermind

        says who, surely not Corbyn. He is well aware that nearly 72% of his membership, almost as big as those leavers who crack the whip over the rest of the populus, do want another referendum.
        The PM is once again trying to be scary cat and her ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ now takes on a real meaning. Is that what 1.7 million people out of 67.7million decided to do? how very democratic.

          • nevermind

            read the decision taken at Labour party conference and then tell me that they all lied and or are not representative of the membership at large Xavi.

          • Xavi

            That is Corbyn’s Brexit stance. Please take the time to actually read the poll of Labour members. Don’t just pretend you have.

          • Tony

            And the biggest fake news is tha remainer lie that we didn’t state what type of brexit we voted for. Cameron made it absolutely clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the common market and leaving the customs union. And that’s what we voted for. Remember this, people, when you are being lied to by the likes of Vince Cable et al.

    • Deb O'Nair

      “Let them stay at home and measure the curvature on their cucumbers and bananas while the rest of us go and vote for Remain.”

      Most amusing.

  • Dungroaninin

    The survival of Parliamentry Democracy(PD) in Britain is at stake. It may come down to the Speaker being executed if he resists.

    The Hard Brexiteers and their neocon/lib crowd of every persuasion are conspiring to take centuries of evolving PD down to the cellars and put a bullet in its head, before closing down the building for ‘refurbishment’…

    All for ABC.

    • Ken Kenn

      There are rumours that May might ask the Queen to Prorogue Parliament.

      Not a fantasy considering the fact that she’s been hiding behind the Throne
      for a long time.

      She’ll be building a wall next you wait and see.

  • able

    Response on Twitter posted by Michael Hodge’s brother, Andrew. The left are out of control.

    Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum.

    People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn’t enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked.

    No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him

    My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won’t be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever… seriously what kind of behavior is this?

    #MichaelHodge is the best kid I know. He volunteers for Special Olympics (took them skiing this Thursday) is involved in the church youth group, doesn’t drink/smoke (volunteer member of the Drugs Free Club of America) and is an aspiring chef.

    People then started circulating articles of him regarding his dreams and goals of being a chef, finds the college he plans on attending and proceed to blow them up encouraging them to rescind offer and calling him a racist POS…

    You reach out saying how “terrible” of a family we are, defame us, threaten us, and you know nothing about us. Yet you circulate the information and spam us like it is the only “truth” that has ever existed in your lives.

    You condemned my parents for being horrible role models, yet you jumped to conclusions and were ready to string up an innocent dude? Is that what you are teaching your children/family? I sure hope not….

    It saddens me people have nothing better to do on Saturday then scour the internet for drama & then dig up info on a family & rile up an army to attack them. Hold yourselves to a higher standard, set a better example for your sphere of influence, we will all be better off for it.

    • Dungroaninin

      Oi oi Napoleon!
      “The left are out of control.”
      It’s YOU that is spinning out of control. Careful you may go postal. And its only Monday.

    • nevermind

      Amplify anything that can destabilise the ‘left’ says our able spin doctor. Do not go anywhere else, do not reflect of the useless chaos that is ‘the Government’ and do not criticise useless ministers such as Fox and Truss. Jez, that pond is full of them today.

    • giyane

      anon1

      what a waste of black and white dots on my PC screen

      wouldn’t a link to this tripe have done?

  • isa

    How Damian Collins knew about the executive of “six4three” , Ted Kramer had documents relating to facebook , I summarise the essential but urge people to read the court document submitted by Kramer to the USA Court and then tell me what kind of a Guardian / Observer journalist does this?

    Ted Kramer an exec for six4three which is in a law suit with facebook since 2015. The documents related to facebook were sealed by the USA judge and Mr Kramer was not even allowed to have access or knowledge of these , only his lawyers. Nevertheless, Kramer met with Carole Cadwalladr in London and shares the public information with her. After this a series of calls and Cadwalladr asking to have access to the private documents (remember he is not even supposed to have them, only his lawyers), in August he meets Cadwalladr in California where he agrees to talk to Collins on Cadwalladrs request and finally in his next trip to London in November he agrees to meet Cadwalladr and sends her his hotel address and presto she involved collins in this , tells him about Kramer being in the UK and Collins summons Kramer to parliament stating that Cadwalladr had told him -collins- that Kramer had private documents (remember again documents he was not supposed to have ).

    Court Document submitted by Kramer :
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5280613-2018-11-26-Plaintiffs-Brief-in-Response-to-Order.html

    Now compare this with the fable told by Cadwalladr to her readers in which she does not lie but clearly ommits her role in all of this.
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/24/mps-seize-cache-facebook-internal-papers

    Kramer is not supposed to have access to this information , less even to have it on his PC and this is under seal by a USA judge and yet Kramer travels to London with documents he is not supposed to have knowing that Collins is interested in them .

    I believe Kramer possibly knew well what he was doing and this was a way to breach the court order without severe legal consequences fro himself, but if his statement is true please take a minute to think that a journalist sold out a source to a member of parliament whith whom she has been working closely through the Brexit fake news process and that she wrote an article in the Observer and does not lie but ommits important information of her role in the affair .

    If Mr Kramer is being economical with the truth and was an active participant in this charade , remove the point that she did not protect her source but keep the point that she was economic with the facts in her Observer article and didn’t tell her readers the whole story and also that Damian Collins was not straight with the way he obtained these documents.

      • J

        I suspect this style of argument (insisting on the least provable, least plausible and least necessary elements being essential) is a method of avoiding serious scrutiny. So that the more general, unassailable truths do not become personally costly. Just thinking aloud.

        • giyane

          J

          I agree. Looking at the moon and landing on it are two very different things. I’m sure if I’d spaced out the dopamine molecules in my brain with dope molecules I could convince myself that I had landed on the moon , just by looking at it.

          It’s important to remember that, when the world is so secretive, by definition you will never be able to prove anything that has been deliberately concealed in the scientific sense of proof.

          I do believe that , when you are being lied to, reversing the lie with a negative will bring you closer to the truth than the lie will ever bring you. e.g. May ” I know many people want us to limit immigration “. Add the negative becomes: ” I know many people want us to not limit immigration “. The first statement is pure fiction from her own stupid imagination. The second statement , though unproven is to my mind much more likely to be the truth.

          I do also believe that this form of de-construction of propaganda by Miles W Mathis could be initially beneficial to anybody who is troubled by lies. It helps one take a looser and more creative look at the double-bind, the double mind-lock of lies, how liars get you to believe one thing in order to get you to believe something else. you can’t get free from the second until you’ve got free from the first.

          Our forebears discovered eventually from the scriptures that all men are equal. they stuck to it and reformed themselves after enslaving people. When Mrs May makes us change our entire political structure on the proposition that immigrants are not equal, we should be thinking how we are going ever to extricate ourselves from the lie that immigration is a problem if we have lost the habit of reading scripture. If salt loses its flavour, with what will you salt it?

          So I don’t look for answers or proof as such, but I look for inspiration. To tell you the absolute truth, reading the Holy books of scripture is the best ” cure “, for lies , which are essentially satanic deceit , which the Qur’an tells us are weak. Satan’s politics is to mislead us from understanding that God is testing us, and to get us to rely on other than God.

          or as Jesus pbuh said when asked about a building that collapsed and killed some people:
          ” Don’t think about what they or their parents had done. Think about the day of Judgement, when how you died or why will be irrelevant. The only important thing will be how you lived.
          racism against immigrants is definitely not going to be something to be proud of.

    • J

      Not that alternative a view, these days, but deftly illustrates just a few of the contradictions Cadawalladr’s admirers are too busy or confused to be bothered by.

    • Dungroaninin

      Read it. Never heard of him before.
      Quotes only Wikipedia and dissects Cadwalladr.
      Unsubstantiated speculations based on the names only.
      Could do better. Agree with the untrustworthiness of Carole as now confirmed by her IoS/II work.

      Last paragraph:
      “That is what I mean by misdirection. They want your eyes off those things and on their manufactured scandals and tragedies. And they want your eyes on Trump and Mercer and May and Macron and Gates and Buffett and Bezos and other fake and petty billionaires and off the trillionaire families that really own the world. They want your eyes off the banks and huge investment groups and Intelligence agencies. As far as possible they want you lost in a vast trivia game of meaningless details and names and personalities, where all your “knowledge” is just rote propaganda. In that state you can be led by fear and anxiety into a lifetime of plastic purchases. If they flog you just right, you will wear pictures of them on your t-shirts and paste their slogans on your cars, til that moment when—with your final gasping drug-induced breath—you will your last dollars to their fake charities”

  • FobosDeimos

    Sorry to post a comment that is not related to this particular post. One of the comments above quotes the Daily Telegraph as stating that Craig now accepts that Chepiga and Mishkin (formerly known as Boshirov and Petrov) “had something to do” with the Skripals’ “poisoning”. I would like to know if Craig can confirm this report, about him now accepting the core of the official version. Also, I was surprised to learn through the BBC that Chepiga and Mishkin, plus the head and deputy of the GRU have been sanctioned by the EU. The BBC reports also that Chepiga and Mishkin have been formally charged for the attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in the UK. I didn’t know that. Did anybody else hear that hese two guys had been criminally charged?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46949162

    • Sharp Ears

      No. I had not heard that. Who made the charges? Inspector Knacker of Scotland Yard\? Did he meet face to face with the two Russians to charge them? When? Where? What a load of nonsense. The Salisbury fairy story continues as it started nearly a year ago on 5th March 2018.
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wiltshire-critically-ill-unknown-substance-salisbury-former-russian-spy-a8241121.html

      ___

      On a lighter note, May is rescinding the planned fee of £65 to obtain secure status. That was a quick about turn. Javid red faced?

      • Ingwe

        I shouldn’t think that they will be indicted (charged) because if there is a trial and the defendants decided to contest the issue, there would necessarily be disclosure and cross examination that would show up the blatant untruth of the whole, British intelligence created charade.

      • Tatyana

        it is in russian news:
        “Anatoly Vladimirovich Chepiga, aka Ruslan Boshirov, Alexander Evgenievich Mishkin, aka Alexander Petrov, Vladimir Stepanovich Alekseev, first deputy head of the GRU, Igor Olegovich Kostyukov, head of the GRU …
        Boshirov and Petrov are included in the list with the phrase “conspiracy to kill Sergei Skripal” and “for the use of the poisonous substance Novichok in Salisbury”, others are only “for the use of Novichok in Salisbury by GRU officers.”

        tried to find GRU’s web-site, stroke upon Defence Ministry’s of Russia. Just look at it! Multimedia section! One can play Tetris or Sea Battle 🙂
        http://xn--80ahclcogc6ci4h.xn--90anlfbebar6i.xn--p1ai/multimedia.htm

        • Paul Bancroft

          Tatyana,
          I love you for being here, and for your perspective.
          In a world of introspective idiots you are like fresh air 🙂
          Thank you 🙂

          • Tatyana

            thank you, Paul.
            I think it may be the most charming and sweet entertainment in one’s life – to play Sea Battle at Russian Ministry of Defence.
            They also have 3D-models of aircrafts and even of self-propelled howitzer there!
            Boys 🙂

    • Mary Paul

      this is actual wording (same for Chepiga and Mishkin):

      GRU Officer Anatoliy Chepiga (a.k.a. Ruslan Boshirov) possessed, transported and then, during the weekend of 4 March 2018, in Salisbury, used a toxic nerve agent (“Novichok”). On 5 September 2018, the UK Crown Prosecution Service charged Ruslan Boshirov for conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal; for the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey; for the use and possession of Novichok; and for causing grievous bodily harm with intent to Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey.

      This is the wording (same for Alexseyev and Kostyukov:

      Vladimir Stepanovich Alexseyev is the First Deputy Head of the GRU (a.k.a. GU). Given his senior leadership role in the GRU, Alexseyev is responsible for the possession, transport and use in Salisbury during the weekend of 4 March 2018 of the toxic nerve agent “Novichok” by officers from the GRU.

      Where did this information originate and who requested the sanctions?

          • michael norton

            It is most likely another scam.
            They should ask the government
            “If the Russians dribbled Novichock on the front door knob, why are you removing the roof?”

          • N_

            Attempted murder of Nick Bailey is a curious charge. Under English law attempted murder requires an intent to kill, and as far as I am aware it also requires an intent to kill the person the defendant is accused of attempting to murder.

            Murder is different in both respects: it does not require an intent to kill, and it does not even require the intent to injure the person who is killed, since there can be a “transfer of malice”. So for example if somebody fires a gun intending to wound another person in the shoulder and misses and kills a bystander, his act can be murder. But even if he intended to kill the first person, he cannot be convicted of attempted murder of the bystander if the bystander survives.

  • N_

    One of the people injured by Prince Philip in the Norfolk car crash has been having her say. Since she isn’t expressing absolute submission to the royal family, Tories will turn puce with fury when they listen to it, thinking “How dare she! How dare the communist traitors at ITV give airtime to such filth that undermines everything! Kill! Kill!”

    Did the guy give his name and address to the other driver? And out of interest if the police did breathalyse him as has been reported what was his score? I wonder how long he has been having what appear to be eye-flashes, what medication he is on, and so on. Was he wearing his glasses? There may have been so many crimes he committed during this incident that his wife ought to get a big pack of notepaper so that she can write to him in the Scrubs for a period of years once she has received her own just desserts and been locked up for mass murder in the Hague.

    Prince Philip ‘stuck his middle finger up at Ford Escort driver after almost running him off the road’ in near-miss 20 years ago“.

    He has renewed his driving licence eight times already, has he?

    He has certainly got it coming to him…

    • giyane

      N_

      The whole of east Anglia stinks of pig slurry, which contains ammonia.

      Effects of ammonia :
      What are the effects of breathing ammonia smell?
      well you usually will start to feel real lightheaded or dizzy and then usually the lights go out (pass out or faint)
      http://www.answers.com/Q/What_effect_does_ammonia_have_on_the_body

      Funny how the government can tolerate entire counties being enveloped in ammonia, but inner cities must be free from the delicious aroma of burning wood. Chacun…

  • Jm

    So Gavin Williamson has Putin imprinted toilet paper…

    Nice to see serious statesmanship winning over 3rd form idiocy.

    Pathetic.

    • Republicofscotland

      The British fighting forces are in such a dilapidated state that Williamson’s really just having a laugh. He’d better stick to turfing poor colonials off their island homes.

      http://archive.is/m0IKC

    • michael norton

      Russian rescue amid deadly blaze on two cargo ships off the Crimea
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46948718

      At least 10 people have died in a fire involving two Tanzania-flagged cargo vessels in the Black Sea near the Kerch Strait, authorities say.

      Russian rescuers are trying to reach sailors who jumped overboard. Fourteen people have so far been rescued.

      One ship is a gas tanker

      • Tatyana

        Kandy and Maestro ships under Tanzania’s flags. In total 31 people, all of them are citizens of India and Turkey. Fire began when fuel was transferred from one vessel to another. 12 are rescued so far.

        • michael norton

          It would seem they were transfering Liquid Methane, which is usually at 600 atmospheres, sounds very dangerous, why would they be moving Methane from one boat to another?

          • michael norton

            I can think of a reason.
            Let us say the Liquefied natural gas was for the Ukraine, to go through the Kerch Straits, the taker was to tall, to get under the new bridge, so move the LNG to a smaller vessel?

          • Tatyana

            here is opinion of Michael Voitenko, an expert in maritime law:

            “Both ships are old, 1990-1992 year of construction; experienced, qualified sailors do not work on such vessels.
            The ship owners registered in Anguilla, an off-shore territory, perhaps it is one ship owner in fact.
            Both vessels extinguished their Automatic Identification Systems, which makes it possible to say that the tankers worked in the “gray zone”, with illegal schemes of transportation and transshipment of liquefied petroleum gas…”

          • michael norton

            These Methane Tanker Explosions are not uncommon
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchi_oil_tanker_collision
            The Sanchi oil tanker collision occurred on 6 January 2018 when the Panamanian-flagged, Iranian-owned tanker Sanchi, with a full natural-gas condensate cargo of 136,000 tonnes (960,000 barrels), sailing from Iran to South Korea, collided with the Hong Kong-flagged cargo ship CF Crystal 160 nautical miles off Shanghai, China.
            Sanchi caught fire shortly after the collision; after burning and drifting for over a week, it sank on 14 January.

            None of Sanchi’s 32 crew members survived.

          • Tatyana

            Temryuk is about 2-3 hours driving by car from me. There’s a place Golubitskaya stanitsa (“stanitsa” is local word, means Cossak’s village, “stan” is Cossak’s camp) near Temryuk, where we spend some summer week-ends. Azov sea is not very salty and also the shore is covered with grass and trees, unlike the Black Sea’s mostly with sand and stones and much hotter weather. Temryuk produces good wine 🙂 It adds to the pleasures of summer rest.

  • Republicofscotland

    Sounds like the peace in NI is under attack, but from whom? The New IRA? The PSNI and its proxy loyalists? Who benefits from the unrest?

    • Laguerre

      But from whom? The British government, of course, with the DUP. I’m sure it was in the secret annexe of the confidence-and-supply agreement.

      • Republicofscotland

        That’s a fair assessment, and not outwith the bounds of reality. If you take Whitehalls history of meddling and divide and rule in NI.

        Of course Stormont right now is more of a museum than a legislative hive of activity.

    • giyane

      The cui bono question is only asked by trraitors perrverts and other communist swine. According to I I cap’n.
      Do you have a permit to use your brain?

    • IrishU

      The phrase ‘PSNI and its proxy loyalists’ is ludicrous in the extreme. Not only does it indicate your complete lack of knowledge about the Northern Ireland of today, it doesn’t even make sense.

      I know this site is a haven for those who see conspiracy everywhere but an upsurge of dissident republican violence is hardly surprising given that it is 100 years since Dail Eireann first sat and declared independence from the British Crown.

          • IrishU

            So from the very off you are wrong about the terms used for the current police service and you link, by your own admission, to a predecessor organisation. Hmm…

            If you think that Patten simply ‘allowed the RUC to be incorporated into the PSNI’, then you are not very familiar with the recommendations of the Patten Commission, nor are you aware of the changes made to policing in NI since 2001.

            You have still provided nothing to counter the view that your original post ‘The PSNI and its proxy loyalists’ is a load of nonsense from someone with little knowledge of the current situation.

      • Republicofscotland

        And it went right to the top.

        “Documents reveal that the Brits drew on Cold War and colonial counterinsurgency experience to wage their secret war against the IRA. What is more, this was not the activity of rogues and charlatans. Neither was it the activity of over-eager locals. Archival evidence now demonstrates that it came from the prime minister himself.”

        “Heath felt under pressure. Like many prime ministers before and after, he turned to the secret world for answers. He looked to covert action as a silver bullet; a means of sorting things out quickly, quietly and efficiently.”

        “The prime minister called for a propaganda battle, including what we might now call fake news. His staff briefed him that spies and diplomats alike were working to “overtly and covertly to blacken the IRA”. They aimed to exploit disagreements and divisions.”

        Some things never change.

        https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/secrets-and-lies-britain-s-dirty-war-in-ireland-1.3498924

        • Kempe

          ” working to “overtly and covertly to blacken the IRA”.

          That can’t have been difficult.

          Of course the British government orchestrated a propaganda campaign against the IRA. What else would you expect them to do?

          • giyane

            I expect them eventually admit that they, the British government paid the IRA to murder innocent people who remembered who had cleared them from their lands and cities and whom they wanted finished. If a politician wants to get rid of someone, they find someone who bears a grudge against that person to do their work for them, rather than doing it themselves.

            The combatants in the NI troubles were the British state which had cleared Scotland and the people they had cleared. Even now it is not the border between NI and Eire which is important, it is how the British can continue to subdue the Northern Irish and prevent them from finding new friendship with their southern neighbours.

            I wouldn’t be surprised if the sole purpose of the lie that is racist Brexit was not to poke the peace that followed the Good Friday agreement, peace which the likes of Boris Johnson bitterly resent.because they know it will soon lead to NI and Eire being united, and Wales, Scotland and Cornwall, maybe even Brittany, choosing to join a Celtic league.

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Republicofscotland January 21, 2019 at 18:51
          If I remember correctly, Heath pretended not to remember anything about it when a General said that Heath had OK’s heavy-handed treatment of the coming Derry March, now known as ‘Bloody Sunday’.
          Be that as it may, he had been made aware of previous heavy-handedness by the Paras:
          ‘Heath warned over Bloody Sunday Paras’: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2599433.stm

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Republicofscotland January 21, 2019 at 18:51
          ‘…What is more, this was not the activity of rogues and charlatans….’
          ‘…Archival evidence now demonstrates that it came from the prime minister himself.”…’
          So it was the act of a rogue and a charlatan….and worse things which I won’t mention.
          Let’s just say he was pally with Jimmy Savile.

  • Sharp Ears

    Two ships are on fire in the Kerch Strait, following explosion(s). Three dozen seamen jumped into the water. (See water temps below)
    Several killed after 2 ships catch fire in Kerch Strait, one ‘rocked by blast’ (VIDEO)
    21 Jan, 2019 17:34
    ‘Two ships have caught fire while moving through the Kerch Strait separating Crimea from mainland Russia, after one of them was apparently rocked by an explosion. At least 10 sailors have died, Russian Maritime Agency said.

    One vessel was “allegedly struck by a blast,” which caused the fire that then spilled over to another ship, an official with the Russian Maritime and River Transport Agency said.
    [..]
    One of them was a liquefied natural gas carrier and another one was a tanker. The fire broke out as the two ships were transferring fuel from one to the other.’

    Average water temperatures are 0–1 °C in winter (2–3 °C in the Kerch Strait) and 24–25 °C in summer, with a maximum of about 28 °C on the open sea and above 30 °C near the shores.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Azov

  • Sharp Ears

    Oliver Kamm’s uncle, Martin Bell with Afshin Rattansi on Going Underground.

    EP702: “I’m NOT a Big Brother Guy” Ex-BBC War Corr Martin Bell Says RT & BBC Deserve Equal Treatment
    21 Jan 2019

    Afshin Rattansi looks at Ireland under EU and IMF control and asks if Ireland, like the UK, will leave the European Union

    Part 1 of Going Underground’s interview with former BBC War Correspondent and Washington Correspondent Martin Bell where he discusses the level of censorship within the BBC, his belief that news should not be neutral between victim and oppressor.

    Part 2 of Going Underground’s interview with Ex-BBC War correspondent and Washington Correspondent Martin Bell, where he discusses regrets he has about his career, his experience with American mainstream media news outlets and why BBC and RT should be treated equally.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0–HU6Qcr-k&feature=youtu.be

    • BrianFujisan

      I seen that Earlier Sharp Ears

      I had no Idea the Kamm Connection..He is Still at it.. R.T ..bbC.. Wont be buying his book. Love the Medialens Book though – Proaganda Blitz – Great work.. Frequently Quoting Craig too.

    • Charles Bostock

      Afshin Rattansi has his own show on RT. I’ve seen it. RT does really gather together a pretty strange bunch of people, doesn’t it – there’s Afshin himself, there’s Peter Lavelle, there’s that economist chappie Max Kaiser or should that be Keiser?

      • able

        Haven’t tuned in for a while. Is the ridiculous Max Keiser still with that girl he’s blatantly banging? Stacy, I think she’s called.

      • Borncynical

        Clearly RT has more interest in what this ‘strange bunch’ has to say than how they might come across superficially to people like you. Your comment typifies the problems with our society where so many people simply judge on appearances (the Jeremy Corbyn ‘overcoat’ issue is one primary example) and not on substance.

  • michael norton

    The Prime Minister Mrs. Theresa May said that the only two ways to avoid a Cliff Edge Brexit
    is striking an agreement with the EU bloc or revoke Article 50, which would mean Britain remains part of the European union.

    The stitch up is coming.

    • giyane

      Reverse the lies:
      The only way to ignore the EU backstop is the stick of No Deal Cliff Edge .
      The only way to get No Deal is to use the carrot of racist Brexit.

      If you pull in the reins and dig in the spurs at the same time, the horse starts to sweat and the adrenalin makes them forget about the crowd and traffic.

      It’s not what you call dressage or show-jumping, more like preparing a horse for charging into battle.

      In other words the EU is going to be shown a mixture of D Day and Waterloo, demonstrating British intransigence at being told what to do by 27 nations it regards as inferior, and showing the EU slaves how to deal with the Napoleonic/ Nazi ambitions of France and Germany. The Brits are going to love it , and the Frogs and Krauts are going to hate it.

      Instead of whingeing all the time why not come out and enjoy the fairground?
      The target is NOT immigrants or bankers. The target is Mrs Merkel’s New World Order that doesn’t include you.

  • Mary Paul

    this is actual wording (same for Chepiga and Mishkin):

    GRU Officer Anatoliy Chepiga (a.k.a. Ruslan Boshirov) possessed, transported and then, during the weekend of 4 March 2018, in Salisbury, used a toxic nerve agent (“Novichok”). On 5 September 2018, the UK Crown Prosecution Service charged Ruslan Boshirov for conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal; for the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey; for the use and possession of Novichok; and for causing grievous bodily harm with intent to Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey.

    This is the wording (same for Alexseyev and Kostyukov:

    Vladimir Stepanovich Alexseyev is the First Deputy Head of the GRU (a.k.a. GU). Given his senior leadership role in the GRU, Alexseyev is responsible for the possession, transport and use in Salisbury during the weekend of 4 March 2018 of the toxic nerve agent “Novichok” by officers from the GRU.

    Where did this information originate and who requested the sanctions?

  • FobosDeimos

    Thank you Mary Paul. That’s exactly why it all sounded awfully strange to me when I read the BBC report. Nobody seems to be asking these very basic questions. The UE says that on March 5, 2018 the Crown Prosecution Service “charged” these guys for conspiracy to murder the Skripals!! The day after the Salisbury episode! How can all this be true? Is Craig reading these comments? Does he have anything to say about this and the Daily Telegraph report?

    • FobosDeimos

      I am sorry about mixing up some dates. I realize now that the “charges” were presented on September 5, 2018. Not March 5. Anyway, it looks as if these Russians have been “tele charged” by some magical device….Maybe they have already been convicted and sentenced…who knows?

  • Charles Bostock

    Theresa May has announced that Britain will waive the £65 registration fee for EU nationals whether there is a Brexit deal or not.

      • able

        It’s not a competition, dear. You’ll have the entire place to yourself in the early hours to inform us of all the day’s events.

    • Ken Kenn

      That’s great news.

      I was going to pay for mine and I’m British.

      The way this lot have ‘ looked after ‘ people in the UK it’s small wonder that they haven’t charged
      British people for the privilege of living in Britain from birth.

      ” We’ve won awards you know ” said one Minister.

      The trophies in the post.

      £65.00 delivery charge of course.

  • Sharp Ears

    As if we haven’t had enough of Brexit, the BBC have a three parter coming up on BBC2 next Monday.

    The first episode – 60 minutes
    We Quit
    Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil
    Series 1 Episode 1 of 3
    For the first time on television, David Cameron’s top advisers – including George Osborne and William Hague – reveal the discussions that led to the decision for which Cameron will go down in history: to hold an in/out referendum. (a long blurb follows)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0c1rjkc

  • michael norton

    I have just had an email from my Member of Parliament, telling me he does not care that our constituency voted for Brexit, he is going to do his dammedest together with other Remainer M.P.’s to keep us in the European Parliament.

    I hope he burns in Hell.

    • Ian

      Good for him. He isn’t a delegate and has some responsibility for the economic health of the country.

    • giyane

      Michael Norton

      Huh! my MP never honours me with an email. Liam Byrne sports a little ginger beard to try and convince his majority Muslim constituents he might be one of us. He having been up to his eyes in Blair and Brown’s War on Islam in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. If he’s telling you that, he probably wants you to think he isn’t backing No Deal because the chaos will lose him his job. He can say ‘ Look, you all know where I stood on Brexit. Don’t blame me for the ghastly recession and drop in the pound.’

      Never believe a politician, EVER. Political survival and money-making scams are all they are interested in.
      people send emails nowadays as memos to cover their arses. Calm down. If you lose your marbles, you’ll be a long time recovering. It’s not worth giving yourself a heart attack about these lying scum. They’re not going to bail you out when your brain or your body goes pop,. They’ll be popping round the bookies to collect their 1000:1 bet.in favour of No Deal, may’s deal or no Brexit, whatever the grapevine tells them’s going to win.

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