The Official Skripal Story is a Dead Duck 733


One of the striking things about the official Skripal story is the way its more wildly improbable aspects have been released to the mainstream media over a long period, so as to manage their impact. So, for example, police acknowledgement that the perfume bottle Charlie Rowley found was sealed and could not have been the container used on the Skripals is comparatively recent, and it took nine months for us to learn that, by a truly wonderful coincidence, the first person to find the Skripals ill on the bench was the Chief Nurse of the British Army.

I covered these points in full in my article on the ten points I do not believe in the official story – an article which nobody has sought to refute, other than to yell “conspiracy theory”, as though that was an argument.

But today we learn from the Guardian (quoting the New York Times) that Donald Trump was only convinced to back the UK government line after being shown photos of dead ducks and hospitalised children by CIA director Gina Haspel.

The problem is that, there were no hospitalised children. No children have been reported as becoming ill following their duck feeding with the Skripals. We have heard from one of the parents that they were shown by the police extremely clear CCTV footage of the duck feeding, which has never been made public. Surely if the child had been hospitalised, the parent would have been mentioned it?

Dr Stephen Davies of Salisbury Hospital’s letter of 16 March 2018 to the Times has been explained away as poorly written or edited, in relation to the cause of the Skripals’ illness. But be that as it may, one thing the doctor’s letter does without any shadow of a doubt, is rule out the possibility of hospitalised children.

There were no hospitalised children.

We also know that the duck feeding was the time that “Boshirov and Petrov” were physically closest to the Skripals. But this is the first time there has ever been any mention of any harm to the ducks. Dead ducks would have been noticed by the public.

Possibly the Guardian and New York Times are inventing utter drivel, as in the Manafort meeting Assange story. That would in itself be worrying. The other possibility is that the security services produced fake photographs of hospitalised children and slaughtered some ducks, in order to convince Donald Trump. If the latter explanation is true, then the entire Skripal saga looks more and more staged.

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733 thoughts on “The Official Skripal Story is a Dead Duck

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  • Mary Pau!

    There are Russian reports that Ms Haspel was CIA London chief from 2014-7 and has close connections with MI6. I assume this is probably true and is a Russian “leak” to muddy the waters about the pictures shown to Trump.

    The names of the children were published in the Sun before the Secret Services realised the press had got the story but their involvement has since been left out of the public coming and is presumably covered by the D notice. Still if any of the children were hospitalised, it would not have gone unnoticed locally.

    • Mary Pau!

      Maybe the sick children and dead ducks story was part of the diplomatic package circulated to EU capitals to lend weight to the UK case?

      • Borncynical

        Mary Pau!

        I am of a mind that this cannot be discounted. For some reason, which I cannot begin to explain, contributors on other discussion forums seem to have had a mental freeze and have automatically assumed that the NYT or their sources or Gina Haspel are lying. Now I know of course that that is not out of the question, but of far more concern to me is, indeed, the distinct possibility that it is the British Govt that is behind this latest anomaly in the narrative.

        When I saw the article in the NYT my first reaction was to wonder whether, as you say, it tied in with the package of evidence handed to EU countries, the USA and NATO. I recall that when representatives from those countries were asked about what they had been shown they all declared that they were unable to give details because it might compromise the investigation. Perhaps the NYT has inadvertently let the cat out of the bag.

        Whoever is responsible, if there were fake photographs used in this way and Trump realises he’s been taken for a fool, someone will be in a lot of trouble. The question is will it be Gina Haspel or Theresa May.

      • Borncynical

        Mary Pau!

        Further to my comments at 21.53, I have just seen on RT that the Russian Embassy in London has written to the UK Foreign Office to ask them to confirm whether or not the UK Government provided photographs as referred to in the NYT. That’ll undoubtedly be yet another communication which never receives a reply.

          • Andyoldlabour

            Borncynical

            Despite the chaotic nature of this wholefarce, the majority of people on other forums, seem to accept the HMG/media line without question.
            I can only put this down to Russophobia which has been encouraged by the MSM since around 2014 – Sochi Olympics/Ukraine coup.

          • Borncynical

            Andyoldlabour (11.41)

            I agree. It’s a real shame and a sad indictment of the society we live in.

            J.

  • tom smythe

    “the package of evidence handed to EU countries, the USA and NATO. I recall that when representatives from those countries were asked about what they had been shown they all declared that they were unable to give details ”

    I wonder if a country like Germany which thought all along it was a crock — but played along so as not to ruffle feathers — received the phony pictures from MI5/CIA and might be willing to leak them. For that matter, there is no good reason for the CIA not to release the images under FOIA though a subpoena from a congressperson would be more likely to get a response.

    -1- It would not be too hard to rule out a Salisbury hospital room. Lots of people have been there, lots of photos online,

    -2- Possibly a reverse google search will show the two photos merely to be lazy stock images. Readily available pictures of the two children (who were not hospitalized like the 40 others who showed up at A&E but were not admitted or even tested for BChE as they lacked symptoms ) won’t match the heart-wrenching photo used to fool the president.

    -3- It would come as no surprise if the duck photos showed them to be shot or a species unknown in Salisbury UK. Birders keep exhaustive daily tallies plus DEFRA actually examined the dead Salisbury ducks and swan and of course knows their species. For example wood ducks from the US are rarely reported in Salisbury but the UK has some species not found in the US.

    More likely, it was just a mallard, common in the US and UK. Again, there are many hundreds of google photos under ‘dead mallard’ but few or none would link to Salisbury as required.

    • pete

      Re SA at 6.26
      Thank for the link, it does make the original story yet more unbelievable, the MSM need better storytellers or the ability to come clean and tell us what really happened, if they know.

  • Mary Pau!

    I still do not get really what is behind all this. I do not buy it is UK government/integrity initiative plot take spotlight off Syria/Israel. Maybe it is to curtail further Russian attempts to regsin round in Eastern Europe. Possibly. But it would be possible to devise other ways to discredit Russia than a Novichok scare with a Russian ex spy living in Salisbury. Surely that is the last place the UK government wants to expose to msm investigation. Where do Rowley and girlfriend fit in?

    • michael norton

      Mary Paul,
      could you say what you mean by “regsin”?

      There is a strange correlation between the poisoned by Novichok couple and the first responders,
      The poisoned were daughter and father,
      the first responders were daughter and mother.

    • A.C.Doyle

      msm “investigation” ? Really !
      None of this whole charade would stand the scrutiny of any serious investigation.

    • Tatyana

      Maybe it is a plot to justify UK government/integrity initiative’s interference in Russian affairs?

      Latest news report that Ashurkov, the ex-head of Alexey Navalny’s fund is a member of II.
      More, Navalny’s daughter has been just accepted to study at Stanford. Btw, Michael McFaul, the ex-ambassador of the US in Russia is the professor at this university.
      William Brouder is the member of II also. He, as well as Ashurkov is wanted in Russia for financial and tax crimes.

      Nearly $2 500 000 spent on this II project during March 2018-March 2019. Partly financed by US State Department, partly by NATO department of Public Diplomacy, partly by Facebook, partly by British Government, applications for financing with Foreign Office’s letterheads.

      Sooner or later British government would have to explain to its taxpayers what was this money spent on.

    • Jo

      Surely its all about creating the headlines… the scare mongering re the Russian bogeyman to revive the cold war mentality and provide every excuse to justify their new hybrid war….Nato the other day saying that even certain cyber attacks will be classified as declaration of war..who could be next…enough poisen to kill thousands in Salisbury were headlines to give the impression that undeclared and secret Russian factories were still churning out tons of the stuff and keeping it hidden …etc…etc…

      • Tatyana

        Yes, Jo, it is clearly visible line.
        I see that people in the West get their knowlege of Russia from very special sources. From ex-russians who migrated looking for better life, from ex-spies, from traitors, from those who commited crimes in Russia and fled abroad etc.
        When it comes to ordinary russians living in Russia, and we are 140 millions, who live here, ordinary people with our families, jobs, hobbies, we who want to stay in our country and to make it better for us. We don’t remember Cold War. We vaguely remember Soviet Union and we know Stalin only from history books. We are generation of “perestroika”.
        Who listens to us? Direct contacts are not welcomed by western governments, remember Football World Cup? Visiting Russia is depicted as a scary journey. Even here there are some commentors who want to shut me up 🙂

        • John2o2o

          Tatyana, I hope to visit Russia one day, especially St Petersburg.

          I study the language, but only as a hobby and it is hard for me as I’m too lazy. I understand the grammar, but struggle with vocabulary. The script is not difficult. I sometimes watch language teachers on youtube – there are some very good ones. To me the Russians I watch on youtube often seem quite similar to my countrymen, but they speak Russian instead of English.

          I get quite angry when I hear our government and the Americans demonising Russia. It is a vast country that so many of us here in England (and Scotland) know very little about. Paka.

    • Noit a Lever

      Furthermore the cover up is so obvious it’s as if they want people to be sceptical. Corbyn and some of his front bench questioned the government’s position, this means that the Labour party can be smeared as not being competent when it comes to security (that old Tory line). It’s the old divide and weaken strategy. A lot of people believe the government’s line, but many others are sceptical.

      The official narrative expects us to believe that the Russian secret services are totally incompetent, I’m not buying it. Likewise the cover up story expects us to believe that the British secret services are totally incompetent, I’m not buying that either.

      • Mary Pau!

        The msm cannot report on it due to a D notice. But what little we have heard surely throws an unwelcome light on Salisbury area, from official standpoint eg presence of ex spies and their handlers, role of Portion Down, military exercises locally. Why would they seek this?

  • michael norton

    Neither Alison McCourt, nor her daughter Abigail were said to have been wearing
    hazmat suit, yet one or both of them were vomited on by Yulia and or Sergei.

    Yet they did not get infected with Novichok?

  • Sharp Ears

    UK local council to Donald Trump: No ducks were harmed in spy poisoning
    US president reportedly changed his mind about sanctions on Russia when shown photos of sick children and dead birds.
    Updated 4/19/19, 12:56 PM CET

    ___
    Here’s an anecdote about mallards. I live fairly near a river and occasionally mallards have nested in trees in my garden. My late husband used to take the parents broods down the road to the river when they were ready. In the week I went down to my lawn and saw a male and female mallard sitting on the grass, fairly close together. Very still and they did not budge. Later I went down again. They had gone but had left me one lovely pale blue egg. Did they know it is Easter? 🙂

      • Pete M

        Had problems over the last 6 months or so accessing wikispooks. First found that linking it on FB either doesn’t work or gives u a security certificate warning , while on Google I’d get a page loaded for a few seconds before whitescreening .

    • pete

      Re Hyde
      I can well understand Hyde wanting to shorten her name (see her Wikipedia entry) What is harder to understand is why the Grauniad would want to employ a sacked Sun employee in order to allow her to churn out her main product – celebrity drivel.
      Oh wait, that’s the Grauniad’s main content nowadays.
      No wonder they don’t want to upset Hyde by allowing her political views to be contested.

    • Adrian Parsons

      Ah, the old “Soviet encyclopedia” trick.

      This has been going on at the Guardian for years, especially under those rare articles on Israel that allowed BTL comments. Particularly under the semi-literate editorship of Alan Rusbridger, a comment equating that State with neo-fascism and/or racist/apartheid policies would not only be removed without attribution (as you noticed), but the account deleted forthwith – no fannying around with “Comments on this account are being pre-moderated” bullshit. The (desired) end result after BTL comments were closed was that very few deleted comments remained visible, giving the impression that the readership was largely pro-Israel.

      The “group” CiF Watch (now tastefully renamed UK Media Watch – https://ukmediawatch.org/) played a large part in this censorship, any mention of which also resulted in BTL comments being removed. There’s a load of stuff on them online (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cifwatch&t=ffab&ia=web) and OffGuardian (https://off-guardian.org/) also dips its toe into that sewer of lies periodically. Dump the Guardian! (https://theguardian.fivefilters.org/) is also worth your time.

      The Guardian doesn’t even pretend to tell the truth nowadays. Roll on the WikiLeaks and Covington High School libel actions!

      • John2o2o

        “Comments on this account are being pre-moderated” Oh I got that and cancelled my account on the spot. It’s the most outrageous thing I’ve ever been subjected to online.

        • Laguerre

          Pre-moderation on the Guardian is frequently bullshit. They warn you but don’t actually do it, and then take the warning off a day or two later.

    • Artemis

      Has anyone seen the appallingly offensive drivel written by Hadley Freeman in The Guardian regarding Julian Assange?
      This is an all-time low for that US right-wing rag which was once a great British publication.
      Boycott The Guardian and drivel “journalists” who spew their ignorance and hatred to influence the morons and the wilfully uninformed.

      Craig Murray and others who speak the truth are so important now – we must defend Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning for exposing the crimes of those who are controlling governments in US and UK, who are responsible for destroying our world.

      STOP READING THE GUARDIAN – DUMP IT!

        • John A

          Plus Hadley Freeman repeats as fact the lie that Assange faces rape charges in Sweden. He has never been charged with anything in Sweden and the Swedish prosecutors know it is all a big US-UK frame up to extradite him.

          • Artemis

            Can these fake “journalists” on Guardian not be prosecuted?
            Freeman is a disgrace – a trash hack writing daily drivel and she dares to write lies regarding Julian Assange.
            I have been boycotting Guardian since Rusbridger did the dirt on Julian Assange – haven’t bought a copy for the past 20 years but rarely open the site since Rusbridger allowed his hacks to write their filth.

          • Laguerre

            Freeman also accepted at face value the complaints of poor hygiene. She believed every word of it. There may be some truth in the complaints, but I doubt it was as bad as said.

          • David

            what’s worse drivel is that HIGNFY last night was also sniggering, with three BBC ‘conformal ruling elite’ stalwarts on the teams & referee, ref even had a non-posh accent – but was still speaking in turds

            how come Japan is a thoughtful country, and doesn’t seem to need a divided society and an overt underclass, they seem to try and bring the best that is available to everyone in the country

        • Artemis

          Here is Hadley’s response: “I love how you retweet yourself. So masturbatory”

          As if one needed proof that this Freeman is anything other than trash. What an embarrassing excuse for a human being!
          Hers is typical of the crap being posted, daily, on The Guardian.
          Hadley Freeman is guilty of libel and calumny – she has vilified Julian Assange – and in any civilised country she would be prosecuted.

      • J

        I realise now where the excrement story came from. Julian may have inadvertantly pasted some Hadley Freeman articles on the wall. Nuff said.

    • Laguerre

      On Craig’s deleted comment. The Guardian are back to deleting anything that criticises Israel. They had become more relaxed after a long period when there was one single moderator who deleted all anti-Israel stuff (but he, she, or it, was not necessarily on shift at any one moment). Now it’s back with a vengeance, and appears to be official policy. The Lobby must have got at Viner, the new editor, on the basis of the supposed anti-semitism of Guardian readers, no doubt. In any case it’s years since they opened for comments any article about Israel – it’s too much work deleting all those comments, the readership being in very large majority anti-Israel.

      • SA

        The Guardian has become a useless waste of space. I have stopped commenting. What is the point of opening something to discussion and then censoring anyone who disagrees however mildly? Also what is a paper worth when it is afraid to open any contentious issue to comments? Just don’t read or comment in the Guardian it is worthless.

      • Stonky

        The Lobby must have got at Viner, the new editor…

        What on earth makes you think that Viner needed to be “got at”?

        • Artemis

          Indeed, since Viner took over the trash element increased. But the rot had set in under Rusbridger.
          The rag publication appeals to Americans, which is why the likes of Hadley Freeman has a *column* for her drivel – intellect required 0%.

  • Sharp Ears

    The estimable David Macilwain (from Australia) writes:

    April 20 ,2019
    With the Mueller Report Debunked, It’s Time for Trump to Review the Lies He’s Been Told About Syria
    https://ahtribune.com/us/maga/3074-lies-told-trump.html
    [..]
    A week later the White House and Whitehall-backed White Helmets launched another fake chemical weapon attack, which succeeded in delaying the US departure from Syria for another year. It is the way that this came about that is now of special interest however, thanks to a related development over some ducks and children.

    As has been noted before, Trump’s impulsive decision to launch a missile strike at Damascus was brought about partly by seeing his daughter Ivanka upset over the pictures of suffering children in Douma. Unlike those in the “Trump administration” who knew the video from the White Helmets in Douma was staged, and that the children were not suffering from exposure to a chemical weapon, Donald Trump evidently hadn’t been “briefed”, in common with his friends in the US media. This wasn’t for the usual reason – allowing leaders to hide behind “plausible deniability” – but because Trump couldn’t be trusted not to spill the beans.’
    [..]

    • Republicofscotland

      SE.

      Speaking of Trump he’s recognised the “good” work General Hafter has done in Libya removing terrorists.

      A little bit of background on the matter, Hafter help Gaddafi into power in Libya. He and Gaddafi had a falling out, and Haftar went to live in the USA in Virginia of all places.

      Haftar is now back in Libya and controls parts of the country, and is claiming his government is the rightful one. The other government in Libya, (Tripoli) was appointed by the UN.

      Is Trump actively working against the UN appointed government in Libya, through General Haftar? And is the game still of keeping Libya in a state of internal conflict?

      • Laguerre

        “Is Trump actively working against the UN appointed government in Libya, through General Haftar?”

        Yes of course. Did you expect a consistent logical foreign policy from Trump? What surprises me why the West is supporting the drippy regime of Sarraj, put in place by US and UN, which is just about capable of holding a naval base on the coast. Anyway Moon of Alabama and his commenters are convinced Haftar is a CIA asset (long time).

        • Republicofscotland

          It’s thought that Haftar, who spent twenty years living in Langley (USA) has this month called on his forces to prepare to move on Tripoli.

          Antonio Guterres, the Secretary-General of the United Nations, has urged him not to do so.

  • Sharp Ears

    Craig has been having fun on the Guardian comments ref a Marina Hyde article.

    ‘This comment on Marina Hyde’s latest article in the Guardian was deleted in less than 60 seconds – is this a record? Furthermore it was deleted in a way that did not leave the “this comment has been deleted” marker.
    What has the Guardian turned into?
    https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1119291628710256641

    This is the Gerhard Torges (same widow’s peak hairline as shown on his Twitter photo) who denied that Craig’s comment was deleted. Who or what is the Piraten Partei?
    https://www.piraten-osnabrueck.de/news/2016-07/kandidatenvorstellung-gerhard-torges

    • David

      PP is Pirate Party, still going in Sweden, Iceland and seemingly Germany. They started in favour of privacy, with a bit of free video watching thrown in. I think their ideals are a bit sunk with the passing last week by the Council of Articles 13 & 16 of the Copyright reform, but we’ll see how that possibly useful legislation develops over the next couple of years

      more at https://piratar.is/english/

      • Ken Kenn

        i remember Pirate Bay which was an out there collective based on tor?

        The French is very wary about Tor according to my French friends so therefore whatever it is must be a bit useful.

        I am not well up at all vis : Facebook Google search etc but if surfers are being blocked by these alleged freedom lovers why not build an alternative search and circumnavigate the official net?

        If we did peer to peer networking – all encrypted and donated 1 percent or plus of each individual computer/laptop/mobile etc to the cause ( so to speak ) then maybe we could bypass the official advertising nonsense called the net.

        Personally I’d donate 50% of my bandwidth to get round Google/Facebook/Twitter et al giving us what’s called ‘ Information’ and so on.

        I’ve seen Carole Cadswallop doing a TED talk and I honestly thought she was decribing advertising in general – not dis- information.

        Then again the two are twins – no t evils.

        Perhaps I’m being naive with the above suggestion but alternative views will be closed down by the ‘ Official ‘ (read allowed by the State ) and we need to garner a response.

        One for the young people I think.

    • Monteverdi

      The Guardian CIF has largely disappeared on any serious subjects. CIF is opened for lifestyle articles but little else. The Middle East, Syria, Israel etc are all out of bounds in the Guardian. Anyone that challenges their agenda however courteously is immediately deleted. I rarely now try to comment on a Guardian article if it is opened, knowing it will be deleted. The Guardian is terrified of its own readership. What I can’t work out is how Katherine Viner the Editor who collaborated with Victoria Brittain the well known journalist in writing the script for the play ‘ My Name is Rachel Corrie ‘ is now running a newspaper so protective of Israel ? Any ideas ?

      • David

        I personally noticed interference with my Guardian c.i.f. account in 2014 during the Scottish Independence referendum campaign. I was trying to correct accidental errors in the content and in th comments, but my posts were not posted, then my account credentials became unusable, and my new account simply never emailed me the confirmatory links. I realised at that time that I was a naïve idiot on the wrong-side of a ‘mastery of the internet’ information war. Target: UK population, origin: UK ic (intelligence community) and tiered partners. their actions were completely illegal at that time, but they are presumably legally covered nowadays. 2014 That’s when I found the community and endemic ic trolls at Craig’s excellent page, and after a deep security enquiry I have been given overt permission to post here, as my human right to free expression, I remain a naïve idiot, and the information war is bigger!

        Editors at the Guardian are presumably being paid, in cash or in kind, for their military service – tho’ they still occasionally publish accurate information: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/19/ukraines-presidential-rivals-trade-insults-in-raucous-stadium-debate

      • Dom C

        Monteverdi.
        As I understand it, she partly blames the ‘Corrie’ play on the late Alan Rickman who directed it.
        It’s worth pointing out that, long before the smear campaign against Corbyn, The Guardian and Viner were frequently attacked by a UK pro-Israeli organisation call ukmediawatch. You can google them to see some of the things they wrote. I’m not an expert on the website but I have a feeling at least one of their writers had connections to The Jewish Chronicle. I don’t mention the JC to create scandal but just just to show that these guys weren’t kids or trolls…. they were serious writers who believed that The Guardian were anti-Israel. I get the feeling Rusbridger stuck up two fingers at them but (perhaps) they got to Viner? I don’t know. We’re in conspiracy theory territory.
        So yeah, it’s baffling and worrying that a person who’s probably been accused of ‘A-S’ more times than Jeremy Corbyn and has also been described as an ‘Anti-Israel propogandist’ is allowed to be the editor of The Guardian.

  • JM

    Just when you thought the Grauniad and Hadley Freeman couldn’t sink any lower..

    That’s a truly disturbing piece she contrived today.Bereft of anything bar 3rd form sniggering and bitter shill bile.

    As others have noted commentary is barely permitted in the Graunaid except for sport and a few lifestyle pieces.This tells its own story.

    Thankfully Hadley has her own Twitter page and is being roundly castigated and ridiculed for her woeful excuse for journalism.Feel free to add your own comments there….

    • michael norton

      There is correlation between the poisoned by Novichok couple and the first responders,
      The poisoned were daughter and father,
      the first responders were daughter and mother.
      Both parents hold the rank of Colonel.
      No I am no good with stats but what would be the odds of this hapening?

      • Ken Kenn

        All in all we have a Shakesperian play.

        No ambulances were mentioned ‘twixt tween’

        No mobile phone footage n’ere.

        CCTV is not a set of Roman Numerals.

        They( whomever ‘they ‘ are ) didn’t know who Yulia was for two days.

        According to Ye Daily Express – verily.

  • Dave G

    Hadn’t the Skripals already left their house by the time the two Russians were supposed to have arrived to smear novichok on their door handle? Lots of weird stuff in this case. The first time I heard what was alleged to have happened, I thought it was a massive coincidence that a nerve agent attack would happen so close to Porton Down, which houses nerve agents.

    • Igor P.P.

      According to the official account they returned and were in the house when the alledged attack took place. AFAIK, no evidence was ever made public to support that, or the opposite.

  • Chemical Britain

    The POTUS has been lied to by the British government and his CIA director.

    He is a dead duck if he lets them get away with it.

  • Jones

    ”the first person to find the Skripals ill on the bench was the Chief Nurse of the British Army”

    and neither chief nurse Alison McCourt, nor her daughter or son who apparently were all there together for her sons birthday (was husband there too ?) suffered any ill effects of poisoning despite having direct physical contact with Skripals, neither did any of the people who daughter Abigail describes as ”walking past” Skripals in ‘audio’ in link below, though apparently ducks died and children were hospitalized. Public being took for mugs.

    https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2782928/exclusive-teenage-girl-describes-moment-she-found-collapsed-skripals/

    • michael norton

      What would be “Interesting to know” would be,
      what did the McCourt birthday party do, after the Novichoking.
      Did they all go to hospital to be to be given the once-over, did they go to Porton Down to be de-contamanated
      or did they just get on with their birthday party?

      The answer to this question will be rather useful.

      If they carried on with the birthday party without getting de-contaminated or attending hospital, then there never was a Novichok incident ( at this time)

      If they went straight to Porton Down, it would indicate, there was a Novichok incident at this time.

  • Brendan

    Shortly before Robert Mueller’s investigation imploded, the Guardian published a piece about one of the main Russiagate conspiracy theorists in the USA:

    “Will Rachel Maddow face a reckoning over her Trump-Russia coverage? ”
    “With Trump has come two years of conspiracy-mongering about Russia – and at the top of the heap is none other than MSNBC’s Maddow”­­
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/28/trump-russia-investigation-mueller-liberal-media-rachel-maddow

    I’m looking forward to something similar on Luke Harding, who wrote a book entitled “Collusion: How Russia Helped Trump Win the White House”.
    Or maybe that’s too much to expect from the Guardian.

  • tom smythe

    The googled photos of duck/hospitalized children strike me as impulsive last-minute deceits. Maybe they worked in the short term but blowback has once more undercut the whole farcical govt narrative.

    While the overall story mostly seems made up the fly, my personal favorite amongst the long list of narrative-busting events is still the cellophane-wrapped sealed bottle and applicator of counterfeit Nina Ricca perfume found by Charlie Rowley in a charity dumpster shortly before Wednesday 27 June 2018, some 115 days after the bench incident. (Charlie flipped his discoveries quickly to support a habit; it is possible but implausible he found the perfume much closer to the Skripal poisoning storing it for 3+ months before gifting.)

    We have previously retrieved images of the medium-sized tip, the prominent charity banner displayed above it, its immediate adjacency to several ordinary garbage bins, its obscure location relative to known movements of event actors, and identified its owner (a charity outlet) around the corner on a busier street.

    No reporter or citizen, domestic or foreign, seems to have inquired of the charity how often the tip was emptied — despite a telephone number that is immediately available online (and posted here earlier). The photos show it was not a curbside free box nor locked down to theft via a one-way donation channel but rather had a light lid open for anyone to climb inside. Its contents were regularly collected, sorted, cleaned and resold to the bargain-seeking public if suitable. The perfume was not discarded, it was meant to be used.

    I would imagine the charity would empty the donation bin daily (or at least flip the lid to see if collection was worthwhile). Weekly? There would be nothing resalable left inside (we are talking Salisbury UK). Every 90 days? It would be overflowing unless locked. 3x a year? Preposterous.

    Frankly, the narrative-spinners did not anticipated a weaponized second device, separate from whatever was used on the Skirpals. It was intended to re-kindle the original uproar and it assuredly did, with Charlie’s exposure and Dawn’s death, just not through the intended redistribution by the charity.

    This was far too clever a kit for just a one-off assassination of a random stranger yet far too stupid on the forensic clues side (though zilch has been reported on that). Was Yulia targeted with an identical first bottle? — we have no idea, nothing has been disclosed about her purse or luggage (other than the police suspected them from day one). Are there clever kits of after-shave colognes targeting men stockpiled somewhere?

    I keep coming back to a theory others have raised here: the kits are somehow associated with Porton Down and attendees of the chem warfare drill so close to the time. Like with weapon-grade anthrax attacks in the US, the kits may have been stolen by a “well-intentioned” freelancing insider who, like Oliver North earlier, took the initiative on a matter (Russia-bashing) that superiors, bogged down by bureaucratic rules, would approve of but not dare to do. The opportunistic, predicable takeover of the story by the authorities explains why it trips over itself so often. They may not even be certain which of their insiders it is; the bin perfume suggests this individual may out of control and still acting as s/he sees fit.

    • Ken Kenn

      tom.

      I heard ( don’t know for sure ) that the perfume bottle was found on the kitchen worktop many days later.

      If that is true then Charlie didn’t put the bottle there – someone else did.

      Imagine that Charlie attained the perfume bottle and gave it to Dawn. She is rushed to hospital – Charlie hides the bottle somewhere in the flat and mysteriously many days later ( Charlei is now in hospital very ill) it ends up ‘ emerging ‘ ( as it was allegedly always there ) on the work surface after the Old Bill scouring the whole flat for evidence.

      It’s just nonsense.

      I think that Charlie didn’t ‘ find ‘ it – he nicked it.

      I’m not having a go at him – he really has suffered as a result but I genuinely don’t belive that he found it.

      I think he was given it or nicked it.

      He thought it was Kosha but the effect on Dawn showed that it wasn’t and he panicked.

      If he panicked he would have thrown it – nevermind kept it for the Authorities to find.

      It was planted.

      If so – who and why would someone plant it?

      I have no doubt hat he and Dawn were set up.

      By whom or who I’m not sure but Dawn’s Inquest resumed in January is not known and what Dawn died of isn’t either.

      As usual the MSM are asking nothing.

      Good Doggies.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Ken Kenn April 20, 2019 at 23:35
        Another possibility is he’s a nark, working with the Old Bill, ducking and diving but covered.

        • Ken Kenn

          Yes.

          I wouldn’t discount that but compare the way he and Dawn have been treated in relation to the Skripals and Sgt Bailey.

          As I say – what do the Authorities ( not Mrs May or the euphemistically termed ‘ UK ‘ ) say Dawn died of?

          If they have a cause of death what is it and on what date was this decided?

      • John A

        I strongly suspect Charlie shoplifted the perfume. The perfume was genuine, but Dawn died of a drug overdose or similar. The PTB are simply using this sad couple for propaganda purposes. As so often is the case, Dawn was hastily cremated! Charlie’s original claim was that he got his hands covered with the contents of the perfume bottle, but washed the stuff off. No harm done. Dawn, on the other hand, sprayed herself and collapsed. As for arguing Charlie and Dawn had different weights and metabolisms, etc., so did Pa and daughter Skripal, but they collapsed at exactly the same time.

    • A.C.Doyle

      You are talking about the perfume bottle which contained the poison used on the Skripals, which was then re-wrapped in cellophane by the assassins and dumped in a charity box. The one which Charlie Rowley later found, then which broke into splinters while he was attempting to assemble with its applicator, covering him in poison, and which he then handed to Dawn Sturgess who sprayed herself with it, and which then later appeared in police photographs once again in a complete and unbroken state ?
      Luckily for the Skripals, there was an appropriately trained nurse on hand to render immediate first aid and bad luck for Dawn that none was present for her.
      We can be thankful we have a Main Stream Media diligently rooting out such facts, and fearlessly exposing false narratives, all for the benefit of us, the readership.

  • Roger J Wise

    The human scum elite that run this country require perpetual potential conflict, which in turn requires enemies, Russia fits the bill perfectly, you just have to convince the public at large that we cannot take our finger off the pulse – which is a propaganda tactic practised and achieved across the generations.

    • Tatyana

      “elite” earn good money on conflicts. E.g. do you remember the missile strike on Syria? Mr. Trump wrote in his Twitter about “new smart missiles”, and those were JASSM missiles by Lockheed Martin Corporation.
      Isn’t it convinient that Mrs. May ordered to arm Panavia Tornado with these missiles for the mission? Mrs. May’s husband is the head of the Capital Group holding about 7% of Lockheed Martin shares.
      So, Mrs. May had her “many thanks” from Washington, Mr. May had his bonuses from Capital Group, Lockheed Martin had their field tests of the new missiles and the stock price went up.
      As you see, it was unnecessary to put the question to a vote in British Parliament.

      Now I follow a new large-scale scandal developing in russian-speacking media. Bulgarian best-selling newspaper “Trud” published an investigation:
      An Azerbaijan state-run company “Silk Way Airlines” transported weapons under the cover of diplomatic flights. Convinient it is, diplomatic flights are not subject to inspection. Want to know who was the buyer? Who received the weapons? What type of weapons?
      BTW, Minister of Azerbaijan is ethnic Kurd, guess, who received the weapons in Syria 🙂
      https://trud.bg/350-diplomatic-flights-carry-weapons-for-terrorists/

      • Sharp Ears

        You are correct.

        Her boy is a ‘relationship manager’, ie takes the clients out to lunch and schmoozes round them.

        Interesting take from the Heil.

        Prime minister’s husband’s investment firm has paid NO corporation tax in eight years – even though the directors have been paid £43million in that time
        Philip May works as a relationship manager for Capital Group in London
        Since 2009 company has turned over £467m but made losses of £125m
        Directors were paid £43million in salaries, pensions and other benefits
        Capital says it will start paying corporation tax next year after 10-year break
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5120309/PMs-husbands-investment-firm-NO-tax-8-years.html

        Tut. Tut. Philip.

        • Tatyana

          I suppose that the clients are standing in a long cue (with their pockets full of money) to have a lunch with him! Just imagine what it means – to know British Government plans directly from Prime Minister’s bed office.

          • Charles Bostock

            A lot less corruption in the UK than in Russia, I fancy. Including of government ministers and officials.

          • nevermind

            You are right Tatyana, when it comes to corruption the shining start is and always will be the Corp. of London and their separate laws, the initial attraction for many global fraudsters who want to live here. Apart from raising the house prices to stupid levels, there is not much communal activities/ responsibilities they undertake.

          • Tatyana

            Once lived on the forum a Troll,
            He thought he was the smartest of all.
            But having his fun
            He once crossed the line,
            And forgot to say “sorry” at all.

            I’m not good at poetry 🙂

  • IncompetenceNotConspiracy

    This just sounds like the source has become confused between chemical weapons use in Syria story (which does include pictures of dead animals and sick children) and the chemical weapons in Salisbury story.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ IncompetenceNotConspiracy April 21, 2019 at 07:11
      Yeh, sure. So what about the ‘British Officials’ giving the US the pictures? Were they confused as well? Cui bono?
      Was, or was not, the primary British aim to drum up ‘retaliation’ against Russia (so there was no evidence, as it was a False Flag op, so they manufactured some)?
      Like WMD’s in Iraq, or ‘Incubator Babies’ in Kuwait, it was a crock of sh^t. But tasty, with molasses (if you’re a Presidential Moron)!

  • Tintin Quarantino

    Thanks Michael Norton.(re Wikispooks link)

    Interesting: several attempts to access Wikispooks through Google, Duck-Duck-Go are failing to load that site. So I’ve had recourse to using yandex.ru and sourced a link here: https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/pablo-miller/

    It’ll be further interesting to see if anyone else is experiencing the same issues.

  • Piotr Berman

    I think that Mr. Bostock truly showed the main division in the society. On one side we have the happy, sane and good, people who sleep well confident that even when the government lies, the lies are prepared for our own good. On the other side you have folks who cannot sleep well at night as they kept being irritated by every mendacity, ineptitude, cravenness and so on.

    Truer words were never spoken. Government lies and what appears to be ineptitude and/or cravenness are conceived by officials who represent the collective wisdom of the entire nation. Surely they have some rational purpose.

    It is curious though that the HSG people (happy etc.) tend to be fanatical about it and get to conniptions when the SMB (sad etc.) raise points like that Blair lied UK and other countries into a bloody mess, or doubt immaculate conception of Israel and her role as a beacon of morality and democracy (usually, in the Middle East, but through the organizations of like Labour Friends of Israel, also in these islands) and so on. Are they really happy (and sane etc.)?

    • Garth Carthy

      I don’t think the world has ever been sane. Our emotions and appetites constantly trump any attempt to maintain a sane world.
      Bostock certainly does show the main division in society – those who think might is right and those who prefer the saner option that truth and justice and cooperation is right.

      • michael norton

        During the Second World War, The U,K, survived/won by the use and misuse of information/disinformation/ control of the narrative.

        The Skripal /Novichok Theme, similarly uses/misuses information/disinformation and most definitely the U.K. Government has been able to control the narrative.

        Are we at war?

        • N_

          The main lesson of the Edward Snowden material from GCHQ and NSA is that the British and US governments are running psychological warfare against their “own” populations and it is part and parcel of the advance of Big Internet.

    • Ken Kenn

      Piotr.

      It more simple than that.

      Charles is a ‘ My Country right or wrong man ‘ as are a few more on here.

      I hope he’s not a Patriotic Leaver who wants to leave the EU to escape the clutches of an oppressive regime in order to land us into an even more oppressive regime – the US.

      Ironically the Atlantacists and NATO ists are the most fake of the fake Patriots.

      Fake Patriot Boris is their representative on earth and is itching to replace May – but not yet.

      Trouble is – that I’ve never witnessed a leader who’s credo is to lead from behind before.

      Must be a new tactic.

  • James

    Could it be that the first quacks are starting to appear in the UK’s Skripal narrative? The NYT article is 100% accurate IMO. One of the authors, Eric Schmitt, broke the story in June 2012 that the US was channelling weapons to al-CIAda in Syria: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html. Schmitt clearly has sources in Langley; and the recent piece was intended to cast Haspel and co in a favourable light. Maybe the CIA and MI6 didn’t get all their ducks in a row.

      • James

        That’s a good clip of Pompeo, who, according to Wikipedia, “…is affiliated with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Pompeo serves as a local church deacon and teaches Sunday school.”
        “You’re saying our lot are different ?”
        Nope. They’re basically all the same. Seymour Hersh said something helpful on this, not long ago. A CIA acquaintance said to him: “You still don’t get it. The FBI catches bank robbers. The CIA *robs banks*”. No doubt the UK set-up is similarly perverse. To be a bit more specific, the official line says MI5/GCHQ exist to protect Brits from ‘those who wish to do us harm’. As much as anything else, MI6 exists to *inflict harm on other countries*, often (e.g. in Russia’s case) simply because they have the temerity to pursue an independent foreign policy. (Though of course MI5/GCHQ are not squeaky clean either.)

          • James

            “Prayer gatherings at the WH.”
            On this day of all days when Christians (at least in the West) celebrate Our Lord’s Resurrection, I’m not saying there’s necessarily anything wrong with that. I meant to draw attention only to the hypocrisy of a professed Christian *literally glorifying* lying, cheating and stealing.

          • Sharp Ears

            Many of the war criminals who have killed and wounded literally millions of brown skinned people profess to be Christians.

            eg George W. Bush – ‘”My style, my focus, and many of the issues that I talk about … are reinforced by my religion.”

            They give me the creeps.

          • Borncynical

            SE (@ 07.40)

            …not to mention our own (UK) PM. I was discussing her with someone over the weekend and the question arose as to what she has done or achieved that could be regarded as beyond reproach during her tenure as either PM or Home Secretary. Without exaggeration, we couldn’t think of anything.

            J

  • Mary Pau!

    I imagine the UK secret services and police in the Skripal affair, have long since ceased to even attempt to deliver a coherent narrative to the public. It is clear that no one believes the spiders web of rubbish we have been fed.

    The authorities have even stopped wheeling out Hamish de Barking -Weapon to shore up their latest fabrication. Perhaps they hope that everyone has lost interest, which rather defeats the purpose if it was all a plot to tyrannise Russia.

    My sister, who I regard as Remain Labour woman on the Clapham Omnibus, says it is clear it is all made up, as BoJo would say, a pile of piffle. and, she say, she has no idea with what purpose.

  • SA

    The five year old experiment in western style‘democracy’ in Ukraine has come to a strange denouement as control was wrested from the hands of the corrupt Poroshenko government in favour of a comedian with unknown credentials. But the whole purpose of maidan was to remove a corrupt politician. But now everyone is taken by surprise as the Ukrainians voted for Zelensky as a protest against the free for all corruption which the West has ignored whilst talking about massive corruption elsewhere. So something had gone wrong with the script in Ukraine. Of course we still don’t know how this will turn out but it is interesting that amongst this confusion the Guardian had this to say:
    “Many Russians and Belorussians watched Friday’s debate with envy, imagining what it would be like to see their own leaders subjected to a stadium grilling.”

    • N_

      The Times of I__ael, crediting a wire from the J__ish Telegraph Agency, declares that “(f)ollowing the victory of Volodymyr Zelensky in Ukraine’s presidential elections, the country will become the only one in the world besides I__ael whose president and prime minister are both J__ish.” The headline gives a different slant, referring to the Ukraine not as the “only” but as the “1st” such country.

      Strangely, only a month ago the same newspaper asked “Is Ukraine’s top presidential candidate J__ish?” and explained that “Even his spokesman won’t comment”. Then they quoted the spokesman for Chabad in Odessa who says he is “under the impression” that Zelensky converted to Christianity. Either there’s a dingdong battle going on, or the Chabad guy is taking the piss – or both.

      FWIW, Zelensky starred in a TV comedy in which a schoolteacher accidentally got elected president. Whether it’s as funny as the 1991 film “The Pope Must Die” in which Robbie Coltrane’s character gets elected pope (I particularly enjoyed the weapons-dealing mafia cardinal), I don’t know.

      The TV side of Zelensky’s progress to the presidency cries out for a parallel to be drawn with Donald Trump. For decades, many TV viewers have been unable to distinguish very clearly between reality and fiction, between actors and the characters they play.

      More than that noting the parallel, we should go further and ask whether anyone who was involved in steering Trump’s campaign also steered Zelensky’s. Election campaigns are nowadays run by agencies and they don’t believe in all this “politics” and “ideology” stuff for one moment. The same agency can take the “right-wing” ticket in one country and the “left-wing” ticket in another. They don’t “believe” in shee-yit. They study each other’s acts and they use what works. Paul Manafort was deeply involved in the Ukraine before Trump was elected. I am not sure whether he is in jail yet or whether he is out on bail. Who were his colleagues in the Ukraine? Which campaign were they part of this time?

      As for a mass wave of protest voting, what actually is that? Is it much different from “populism”?

      I doubt many people in the Ukraine believe that voting for anybody is going to make the state less corrupt. But they may be having a bit of a laugh. In a sense, you can’t really blame people for having a laugh when their hearts are breaking.

      • N_

        “Converted to Christianity”! A “proper” journalist would surely contact Zelensky’s press office and ask “Does Mr Zelensky have a religious denomination and if he does what is it? And in particular would he like to comment on the story that he converted to Christianity?” But no, the ToI prefers to quote the “impression” of the Chabad spokesman in Odessa.

        • SA

          N_
          I am aware of the rumours that there is this connection and that Kolomskoy, the billionaire who owns the TV channel which shows The Servant of the people, lives in exile in Israel. But I think it is more interesting to me to see how outsiders can suddenly come from nowhere and get elected and upset the spplecart. But the parallels have to be treated with caution, Trump was elected within the political mechanism of the US through the Republican Party and there is a strong set of checks and measures (even though these are to ensure continuity of the deep state) whereas Ukraine is like a circus show. But of course who is appointed in Ukraine must be through the approval of the White House or they will not last.
          One thing I would like to confirm is that I believe the Donbass was not party to this election and therefore if this is the case this election is more of a farce than is even what it seems and is portrayed.

          • Rowan Berkeley

            Kolomoisky was described by an Israeli trade representative (to the Israeli consul in Odessa, in a hacked phone-call) as “the Jewish Hitler of the Ukraine.” He funded Right Sector. He also built the largest Jewish centre in Europe (in Dnepropetrovsk), for Chabad and for them alone. Chabad apparently have a functional monopoly throughout the FSU.

      • Tatyana

        There were many articles on Poroshenko in the beginning of his presidential term, saying that he changed his surname. He is an ethnical moldavian J*w, Waltsman.

      • Sharp Ears

        Another supporter of the JLM.
        https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/sadiq-khan/news/103240/sadiq-khan-joins-jewish-labour

        Hounding Jeremy Corbyn – Ruth Smeeth et al – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Labour_Movement

        There is a trend amongst the British politicians of Pakistani origin – Sajid Javid said he admired Israel and would like to live there.
        https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/sajid-javid-reaffirms-support-of-israel-vows-to-strengthen-uk-partnership-1.470455

    • Tatyana

      @SA, re. corruption

      “The United States provided the current president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, with guarantees of immunity, страна.ua (*an ukrainian media) reports, citing its sources in lobbying circles in Washington.”
      It reveals who in fact is real ruling power in the Ukraine.

      As to the last paragraph, I’ve noticed the persistent comparison with Russia when talking about the Ukraine. Is it a syndrom of younger brother? “Look, Mommy, I’m better than Johnny!”
      I didn’t watch the debates, but I’ve seen video by Anatoly Shariy on it. I’m sorry for ukrainian people. Their candidates think that the country is a herd of stupid sheep and can easily swallow the bad-tailored show. No dignity. No self-respect.

      • SA

        Yes Tatyana I thought it is strange that the Guardian should say that this circus is something that people in Russia and Byelorus would envy. Typical racist Anglo-Saxon arrogance.

        • Tatyana

          I’m not aware of typical arrogancies, SA 🙂

          Just sharing a video we enjoy today in social media.
          Irina Geraschenko, wife of Prosecutor General and vice-speaker of Rada, runs and pushes her way to the frunt of the scene, perhaps she missed the signal to kneel and is afraid to be too late?
          https://pikabu.ru/story/yet_nado_videt__6658591

          Maybe it is the potential envy of the Russians 🙂 I imagine Putin had dabates with a comedian, e.g. Galkin or Petrosyan, scold each other and then sing the anthem, and all of them get down on their knees and even somoone’s wife could rush forward… ah, it would have been a spectacular show and a lot of fun. In case we don’t elect Petrosyan as a president, of course.

          • Ray Raven

            Smarten up.
            Typical arrogance of the Britisher / Englander)?
            “The sun never sets on the British empire” (or words to that effect).
            Nearly as good as “excepional” and “manifest destiny” by the Amerikanski underling.
            The City of London ( and its dominions) still rules the roost as the financial capital of the world. Check where the worlds’s skato-klepto-oligarchs secrette their ill-gotten gains. It ain’t Helvetia (Zurich included – so passe).

    • Johny Conspiranoid

      SA
      ” But the whole purpose of maidan was to remove a corrupt politician”
      Or perhaps its purpose was to bring some facists to power.

      • Borncynical

        Johny Conspiranoid,

        Indeed. The US have been very quiet so far on the Ukrainian election but I have no doubt they are beavering away on contriving a ‘coup’ should Zelensky not appear to be malleable enough for them. Or else they are content that he can still be ‘manipulated’ in their favour by fellow Parliamentarians, many – if not most – of whom are from Poroschenko’s Party.

  • Sharp Ears

    I don’t know the provenance of this website*. In this article, they copy a tweet from a Bellingcat operative (a trainer?) by the name of Alex Toler which refers to Craig.

    On British TV, Russian ambassador repeats debunked poisoning narrative
    Stories in the ‘Context” section are not fakes. We publish them in order to provide greater insight for our readers about the techniques, methods and practices used by the Russian government in its information war.
    April 13, 2019
    https://www.stopfake.org/en/on-british-tv-russian-ambassador-repeats-debunked-poisoning-narrative/

    You get the drift.

    *They say they ‘Struggle against fake information about events in Ukraine’

    • Tatyana

      Sharp Ears,
      Eugeny Fedchenko, stopfake.org founder and the director of journalistic school of Mogilev is in the list of Integrity Initiative agents. Obviously he struggles against something 🙂

      • Geoffrey

        Good morning Tatyana, I am recently back from my trip around Russia. I was a bit nervous about visiting Rostov as I expected it to be full of troops on the way to or from the Ukrainian border…but hardly saw any. No propaganda style posters etc. When I was in Kiev and Odessa last year everywhere I went there were photos of soldiers on the front line against Russia. Even the museum’s am art galleries had pictures of soldiers in action in between pictures or historical artefacts . In the streets I was hassled for money “for the soldiers on the front”. Rostov in contrast was relaxed.
        On another matter when I was in Moscow I visited St Andrews the Anglican church there which is raising money for reparations.. I noticed that the Mayor of Moscow had agreed to donate $2.3m so long as the church itself could raise $350,000.

        • Ray Raven

          Anglican church in Russia??
          Some sort of remnant fron the mid 1800s Krim war. Captured troops perhaps?
          From the bleetings of the west, there aren’t too many Angles (or is it Angloes) in Russia.
          I though that they (Angloes / Anglos) were all in Anglo-Saxony (currect In-ger-land, ’66 and 2 world wars notwithstanding – but that only works againast the krauts).

        • Tatyana

          Thanks for sharing your impression, Geoffrey. What you write about Rostov fits perfectly into a popular joke:

          Senya and Monya are talking on the phone.
          – Senya, what’s going on?
          – Well, Ukraine is a little at war with Russia…
          – So, are there losses?
          – Yes, Ukraine lost the Crimea, a couple of areas, several airplanes and helicopters, tanks, a lot of people…
          – What did the Russians lose?
          – Monya, you will not believe it, the Russians have not yet come to war…

      • Ray Raven

        I’m not saying that Russia is monoculture, but that the An glical church is the church of In-ger-land,
        I’m quite sue that the Russian Orthodox churches ( and for that matter any other Orthodox churches) in In-ger-land (or here in Oz) have been established to cater to the permanent immigrants / expats (Rooskies and Greekos respectvely).
        I’m of aware of Rooskies and Greekos emigrating to In-ger-land and Oz for a better life (financial), however migration from In-ger-land to Russia (or for that matter Greece (including Cyprus – which is a Greek island) is minimal).Russia is a fedration that includes a wide variety of native religions, Anglicism not being one of these (I strongly suspect).
        I suspect that the probability of a Lutheran church in Russia would be quite high due to its close proximity (adjacency) to the Baltics,
        there is a large Muslim populaion in Russia, as there would would strong support for easrter / far easterrn (asiatic) religions.
        State and religion should be separated.

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