**Date for Diaries** Please join us outside HMP Edinburgh on the morning of 30 November 2021 to celebrate Craig’s release from prison. Speech from Craig. All welcome. It’s St Andrews Day – bring your Saltire. #cmcountdown #ScotlandJailsJournalists
— Craig Murray Justice campaign (@cmurrayjustice) November 17, 2021
Craig Murray #CountdownToFreedom series #ScotlandJailsJournalists Peter Oborne, journalist & former political commentator of the Daily Telegraph describes his friend as a hero, truthteller, dissident – https://t.co/MZhxu46YPR pic.twitter.com/hBcd1xj8A2
— Craig Murray Justice campaign (@cmurrayjustice) November 22, 2021
I want to make one or two points for you to ponder while I am in jail. This is the last post until about Christmas; we are not legally able to post anything while I am imprisoned. But the Justice for Craig Murray Campaign website is now up and running and will start to have more content shortly. Fora and comments here are planned to stay open.
I hope that one possible good effect of my imprisonment might be to coalesce opposition to the imminent abolition of jury trials in sexual assault cases by the Scottish Government, a plan for which Lady Dorrian – who wears far too many hats in all this – is front and centre. We will then have a situation where, as established by my imprisonment, no information at all on the defence case may be published in case it contributes to “jigsaw identification”, and where conviction will rest purely on the view of the judge.
That is plainly not “open justice”, it is not justice at all. And it is even worse than that, because the openly stated aim of abolishing juries is to increase conviction rates. So people will have their lives decided not by a jury of their peers, but by a judge who is acting under specific instruction to increase conviction rates.
It is often noted that conviction rates in rape trials are too low, and that is true. But have you ever heard this side of the argument? In Uzbekistan under the Karimov dictatorship, when I served there, conviction rates in rape trials were 100%. In fact very high conviction rates are a standard feature of all highly authoritarian regimes worldwide, because if the state prosecutes you then the state gets what it wants. The wishes of the state in such systems vastly outweigh the liberty of the individual.
My point is simply this. You cannot judge the validity of a system simply by high conviction rates. What we want is a system where the innocent are innocent and the guilty found guilty; not where an arbitrary conviction target is met.
The answer to the low conviction rates in sexual assault trials is not simple. Really serious increases in resources for timely collection of evidence, for police training and specialist units, for medical services, for victim support, all have a part to play. But that needs a lot of money and thought. Just abolishing juries and telling judges you want them to convict is of course free, or even a saving.
The right to have the facts judged in serious crime allegations by a jury of our peers is a glory of our civilisation. It is the product of millennia, not lightly to be thrown away and replaced by a huge increase in arbitrary state power. That movement is of course fueled by current fashionable political dogma which is that the victim must always be believed. That claim has morphed from an initial meaning that police and first responders must take accusations seriously, to a dogma that accusation is proof and it is wrong to even question the evidence, which is of course to deny the very possibility of false accusation.
That is precisely the position which Nicola Sturgeon has taken over the Alex Salmond trial; to be accused is to be guilty, irrespective of the defence evidence. That people are oblivious to the dangers of the dogma that there should be no defence against sexual assault allegations, is to me deeply worrying. Sexual allegation is the most common method that states have used to attack dissidents for centuries, worldwide and again especially in authoritarian regimes. Closer to home, think of history stretching from Roger Casement to Assange and Salmond.
Why would we remove the only barrier – a jury of ordinary citizens – that can stop abuse of state power?
I am worried that this abolition of juries will have been enacted by the Scottish Parliament, even before I am out of jail. I am worried Labour and the Lib Dems will support it out of fashionable political correctness. I am worried an important liberty will disappear.
I want to touch on one other aspect of liberty in my own imprisonment that appears not understood, or perhaps simply neglected, because somehow the very notion of liberty is slipping from our political culture. One point that features plainly in the troll talking points to be used against me, recurring continually on social media, is that I was ordered to take down material from my blog and refused.
There is an extremely important point here. I have always instantly complied with any order of a court to remove material. What I have not done is comply with instructions from the Crown or Procurator Fiscal to remove material. Because it is over 330 years since the Crown had the right of censorship in Scotland without the intervention of a judge.
It sickens me that so many Scottish Government backed trolls are tweeting out that I should have obeyed the instructions of the Crown. That Scotland has a governing party which actively supports the right of the Crown to exercise unrestrained censorship is extremely worrying, and I think a sign both of the lack of respect in modern political culture for liberties which were won by people being tortured to death, and of the sheer intellectual paucity of the current governing class.
But then we now learn that Scotland has a government which was prepared not only to be complicit in exempting the Crown from climate change legislation, but also complicit in hushing up the secret arrangement, so I am not surprised.
What is even more terrifying in my case is that the Court explicitly states that I should have followed the directions of the Crown Office in what I did and did not publish, and my failure to not publish as the Crown ordered is an aggravating factor in my sentencing.
If the Crown thinks something I write is in contempt and I think it is not, the Crown and I should stand as equals in court and argue our cases. There should be no presumption I ought to have obeyed the Crown in the first place. That Scottish “justice” has lost sight of this is disastrous, though perhaps as much from stupidity as malice.
My next thought on my trial is to emphasise again the dreadful doctrine Lady Dorrian has now enshrined in law, that bloggers should be held to a different (by implication higher) standard in law than the mainstream media (the judgement uses exactly those terms), because the mainstream media is self-regulated.
This doctrine is used to justify jailing me when mainstream media journalists have not been jailed for media contempt for over half a century, and also to explain why I have been prosecuted where the mainstream media, who were provably responsible for far more jigsaw identification, were not prosecuted.
This is dreadful law, and my entire legal team are frankly astonished that the Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal on this point. This excellent article by Jonathan Cook explains further the chilling implications.
Those articles which the Court ordered me to take down, have been taken down. But I was not ordered to take down this one, which was found not to be in contempt of court. I was also not ordered to take down my affidavits, which though slightly redacted are still extremely valuable. I swore to the truth of every word and I stick by that. At the time I published these, far less was known about the Salmond affair than is known now, and I believe you will find it well worth reading them again in the light of your current state of wider knowledge – absolutely nothing to do with learning identities, but to do with what really happened on the whole plot to destroy Alex Salmond (something the judgement states I am allowed to say).
Finally I urge you to consider this truly remarkable speech from Kenny MacAskill MP. Scotland’s former Justice Secretary, and consider its quite staggering implications. It tells you everything you want to know about the British Establishment’s capture of the Scottish government, that the mainstream media felt no need to report the main points he was making, which constitute a simply astonishing outline of corrupt abuse of power.
An explanation: this blog is going dark because I cannot by law publish from prison or conduct a business from prison. Access to this blog has always been free and open and subscriptions have always been a voluntary contribution and not a purchase. It is understood that all new and continuing subscriptions from today, until we go live again, are voluntary contributions to the welfare of my family and not in exchange for anything.
I am afraid one off contributions to the defence fund are also still urgently needed. Legal costs so far paid amount to over £200,000 and continue to rise as we head towards the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which has to be via another Scottish Court called the nobile officium. Astonishingly, over 13,000 individuals from over 120 countries have contributed to the legal defence fund. People all over the world value freedom and realise the terrible precedents established by this case must be overturned.
We are equally grateful for all donations and all really do help – donations of £5 or less total over £30,000. But I must mention the special generosity of Roger Waters and Vivienne Westwood, and the anonymous individual who gave one bitcoin. 80% of the fund is reserved for legal fees, but up to 20% may be used to fund campaigning to raise public and political awareness of the human rights issues involved.
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The chap is said to have mental issuez, like so many during this pandemic, now everyone is baffled as to his motive.
Well, a simplistic device, he was prbably scared himself and the conversation, if there was any, quite tense, maybe he let on what he wanted to do which would explain the speed the taxi ce into a hospital compound.
The motive could have been his forthcoming extradition, as his stay was refused by the home office.
Imagine a muslim man on his own, seeing whats happening abroad, trying hus best by changing his religion, done everything legal to stay here, knowing what would happen to him as a converted christian, with no other way to turn.
would that be a motive?
The sane within society spend way too much time trying to ‘understand’ the motives of psychopaths. The psychos don’t care about anything that doesn’t address their sick needs, and even less for being understood, except as justification for their insane acts.
Ben
Psychotic means you are mad and you don’t know it because you have successfully projected all your faults onto others around you, leaving yourself perfect.
Not the normal working mad of most people’s daily existence in which we try to take responsibility for our personal weaknesses. A very fine performance by the Speaker of the HoC, putting the psycho firmly in his place.
Ben,
Some mental illnesses are genetically transferred. So, all in all, there may very well be an argument for understanding.
In the law there is the concept of ‘diminished responsibility’ which goes to a legitimate explanation for an otherwise wrongful act.
Not trying to pull a rabbit out the hat – just saying that one can quite legitimately have mental issues ( i.e. as opposed to inventing a ‘magic trick’ explanation).
Courtenay:
It’s well and fine to study the genetic markers of
psychopathy, but interviews of the afflicted does little to reveal their clockworks.
In fact, psychotherapy becomes like a school for them. They refine their social ‘skills’ and further develop their deceptive behavior while their own importance is exalted by the process.
…. or alternatively one can be of sound mind, see the atrocities that the USA/UK armed forces have perpetrated abroad and the ‘accidental’ civilian deaths which are considered unavoidable collateral damage in their illegal wars – and rationally conclude that the only thing that is likely to get through to the public what has been happening is to create similar atrocities on UK soil – making the ultimate sacrifice perhaps the best way to maximise the chances of the bomb going off in the intended place.
I’m sure that such bombings and attempted bombings would more-or-less stop if the armed forces of the Anglo-Saxon empire didn’t have a malign presence in countries where they have no business to be.
Human shields and bomb collateral deaths are still the purview of criminals recruited by other criminals.
They set the stage for public outrage over innocent victims, but only the psychic psychopaths celebrate the carnage
Ben – by `psychic psychopaths’ I presume you mean people like Tony Blair, George Bush, Jack Straw.
‘Psychic psychopaths’
It’s a learned skillset shared by seekers of public office, regardless of affiliation
Unless Craig does something silly such as thumping the prison governor, he will be free soon. It will be enjoyable to read him again.
Having had a “retreat” from normal life I am sure he will have used some of that time contemplating and thinking. Being wrenched away from his family, who have committed no crime, only shows that collateral damage causes the powers no loss of sleep. A hideaway holiday with family is helped, I hope, by a small donation from me.
In all the time he has been in prison I have found no comment from Alex Salmond. It was Craigs’ public support for Salmond that produced the fury that led to Craigs’ victimisation. If that is the case, I find it beyond the pale.
If anybody has sources I haven’t seen or heard of please link.
The least Alex can do is greet him on his release, that can’t possibly compromise any legal proceedings. Craig is, if nothing else, a Scottish patriot and Salmond should show him respect…_
DiggerUK – the authorities banged him up even though he is an innocent man. They are perfectly capable of creating lies, slander and character assassination and falsely stating that he thumped a prison governor.
So Dawn Sturgess’s inquest won’t take place.
A “public inquiry” will take place instead, billed by the BBC as an inquiry into “…Novichok death…” after Dawn and Charlie “…came into contact with the deadly nerve agent.”
So much easier just to repeat the official narrative, than to establis proof through the pesky checks and balances of the Coroner’s Court.
RIP Dawn. RIP accountable democracy.
I should have said “exactly as predicted by Craig Murray, two years ago.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/no-inquest-for-dawn-sturgess/
The BBC coverage that provoked my earlier post mentioned that the Inquiry would replace the Coroner’s Inquest. Later BBC coverage wipes all mention of the inquest.
Is it my imagination, but the anti Russian, propaganda appears to be running at maximum hype at the moment ?
NATO(US) Nukes to go to Russian border.
US to sanction Russia and not recognise Putin if he doesn’t step down.
US/UK/NATO/etc. Military sailing around and around the Black Sea.
Germany continues to drag their feet and threaten Nord Stream for giving them cheap gas.
Now Novichok the deadliest nerve agent on the planet is resurrected.
What’s going on ? What are they trying to hide ?
It is not your imagination. This is an analysis by The Saker. http://thesaker.is/russian-options-in-a-world-headed-for-war/
I do not take all that he says seriously but some of it is very illuminating. It is clear that the Novichok incident of March 2018 was a very well orchestrated first step in the plan of propaganda against Russia and the forensic evidence of where the Novichok came from could not stand the judicial test of proof. A good source for this is John Helmer who also published a book compiling his blog posts on the subject.
Probably old news.
“Arbuthnot, who ruled to keep Assange in jail, defying the UN, is now a high court judge.”
“Baraitser, whose ruling means other journalists could be extradited to the US, is now a Circuit Judge.”
Hamas to be declared terror group with supporters in UK facing 10 years in prison
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hamas-priti-patel-proscribe-terrorist-organisation-b1960515.html
That’s the political wing, the actual government. The Home Secretary Priti Patel was dismissed from ministerial post before for holding secret meetings with Israel, and was found guilty in her present post of bullying juniors. She advocated sinking refugee boats crossing the English channel. She (of Kenyan Asian parentage) is wholly opposed to immigration to the UK! Such is the calibre of the governing class in the UK today, totally sold out to the Zionists. As is the main opposition party. Universities are being forced to accept the IHRA definition of anti-semitism under threat of losing financial support, most have buckled. It will soon be a crime to criticise Israel at this rate. Glad I no longer live there and can wear my “Free Palestine” t-shirt without fear.
(Posted on MoA)
Well said Walt. We are now in a police state.
So that means we on the AUOB marches that carry the Palestine Flag could be in Trouble by the law..
And in fact I was personally approached in George Square Glasgow whilst carrying the Palestine Flag.. The Third time I told the Guy
“This is the Third time you have Got in my face
No No you don’t understand .. The Palestinian’s They
Fk Off
The same Guy Three times.. I’ll tell where evil Patel can go with this latest Law of hers …
Meantime … When we were outside BBC in Glasgow, I took a picture of this young Chap –
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132108640@N08/28487131900/in/dateposted-friend/
The British state hasn’t sold out to the zionists they have appointed them brownshirts de jour to persecute the enemies of the state.
Brian, Walt and Mary. Novara Media had a good analysis of the Starmer speech to Labour Friends of Israel. Barnby Rayne gives a passionate response.
It Is Good Reporting Wikikettle I seen that quote yesterday
“It Denies the Jewish people alone a right to self-determination.. “
The Link –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E985ukCaIRs
Thank you for the link, Brian!
Who is that clever man Michael Walker?
Anyone here please pass my respect to him 🙂 I fell in love with his way of reasoning when he said “Starmer equates anti-zionizm with anti-semitism”.
I’m so damn tired of this constant manipulation of the words’ meanings… The trick used too often in public discourse, in the speeches of politicians, in the media. I’m so angry with some doctors-sociologists who choose terms for their theories without consulting professional linguists first!
I had recently had a very passionate clash on Facebook, with some Robin DiAngelo’s followers. Rather educative one conversation, though morally and emotionally devastating.
Thanks all good spirits of this world, we were good willed enough to end it up in mutual apology and respect. But now I know what a job of a diplomat like Lavrov’s look like
Is it really a surprise for the whole Doctor that a huge mass of people perceive words at their face value?
And she still have the audacity to say ‘my profession gives me the right to generalize all Whites’!
Congratulations on building another cult, dr. robin (lower case intentional).
Generalized term appealing to skin color + tools for recognizing those bad ‘white racists’ through the description of ‘their typical reactions’ – reminds me of how another race theory started.
From demanding an apology to the idea that more radical methods of ridding the world of this evil are required, is a short road actually. Emotions are already warmed up enough. And, in the midst of the pandemic, it is quite possible that the second prerequisite appears – a lack of economic resources – and it would flare up across the country.
In that case, please, don’t blame the Russians then.
Brian – thanks for this. Do you have a link for the text (i.e. the text of Starmer’s speech and the text of the response)? I find written things easier than youtube. This dissection of Starmer is very important.
It looks as if he gets Pritti `pretty vacant’ Patel to write his speeches for him.
The complete text is printed in this blog https://duplicitousdemocracy.wordpress.com/2021/11/20/starmer-and-the-labour-friends-of-israel/ It has been annotated for obvious reasons.
Pete – thanks! this is exactly what I wanted!
Cementing this one thought in the mind and remembering the appointment of Starmer was the genesis of his (s)election as PM when the Boris Shifty party self-destructs:
“..the Israeli regime implements laws, practices and state violence designed to cement the supremacy of one group – Jews – over – Palestinians.”
Squeeth.
I see Priti Patel is intent on proscribing the political arm of Hamas in the UK, which would mean that it would be an offence to fly the Hamas flag, or promote them in any way in the UK without it not being an offence.
Patel has an unscheduled secret meeting in Israel a while back, is she now a Mossad agent?
It’s the other way round. Acting as a US proxy is the pound of flesh the zionist antisemites pay for having free reign in occupied Palestine. The British state has been getting in on the act and Liarbour under Sturmer has become a fully-fledged antisemite partei; don’t expect anything but more of the same.
I see this as another Craig M. pretext. There are bound to be many putting forth their observations of the Hamas political deeds much which involve straight social and humanitarian projects. Could even be they see their success in jailing Craig as the blueprint. Hell the nightmare is Craig could be jailed again.
Joe Biden said: “I stand by what the jury has concluded.”
The US president told reporters: “The jury system works. We have to abide by it.”
That is because in the Rittenhouse case the facts proved to the jury that the idiot kid was not guilty. I agree with the President. Juries must decide in cases that involve incarceration.
So is Sleepy Joe going to extend the same consideration to Assange? How about our dear Craig? Surely he must have something to say about people in the best friend country and jury trials.
Looking forward to Craig’s musings.
‘Sleepy Joe’
Nice Trumpian default.
One would think that your Trump values would inspire more fascism disguised as anti-fascism, augmenting your worship of Freedumb without personal responsibility.
But you see yourself as righteous, just like the other narcissists
Ben
Narcissists see their own reflection in the water surface.
The current numbskull dumb dumb potus has not cancelled the extradition attempt of Assange has he?
That is my main point.
You deliberately avoid it
You divert from it by picking on a single phrase to make it about the previous potus – who also didn’t stop the conspiracy against Assange, just like the previous one, Obama, who carried on the murderous work of the Bushes and Clintons and went after Julian with the fake rape charges.
I suggest you are trolling.
It is your type of attitude that makes he MSM propaganda lies stick.
The sort that values trial by media or controlled judges above a trial by jury.
A media that does everything to obscure the facts and even tries to convince us that the Jury got it wrong. A media that ignores the facts the jury see and hear.
That is why CM has been imprisoned for telling the truth about Salmond’s jury trial and evidence that showed the accusers conspired and perjured with fake charges. While the SNP leadership traitors against independence and the various judges in both cases are protected and rewarded by ever greater power.
Can you say ‘Russia’ without cheering Vlad and his outwardly criminal State Cartel?
Justification from the Left is ubiquitous
Spot on DunGroanin, excellent post
Thank you
Trump is continuity, not change.
I agree, there is a long running play, show trial, back and forth, recruitment of one one side to another, left, right, Labour, Conservative, Republican and Democrat. Getting the population all hot and bothered, on one side or the other, between periods of entertainment and Deliveroo deliveries. Whistler Blowers are essentially trying to melt the wax build up in the ears of the satiated. The majority don’t care or want know anything about anything unless it impacts on them, by which time it’s to late to change their so called vote for who they were told to vote for. I have just finished watching a three part lecture series by Professor Michael Hudson entitled ” Global Financial Empire ” Parts 1 to 3. Here is ‘the’ Whistle Blower of Whistle Blowers, who was at the heart of US Finance and Global control resulting in it’s free lunch for decades.
Dimgroaning is worried
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/is-the-kremlin-ready-to-move-against-ukraine
What is ‘Dimgroaning’ worried about ‘Ben’?
Seems like a CIA academia wonk spouting some Narrative with plenty of idiotic comments and an odd realistic one.
What is there to worry about?
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2021/11/20/russia-preparing-to-attack-ukraine-by-late-january-ukraine-defense-intelligence-agency-chief/
Enablers: Rejoice!
US uni polar world and its exceptional rules based order has run up against a Chinese wall. It is flaying about with its huge military might in the hands of maniacs coming to the end of a long bloody road strewn with bodies of millions. One country after another is now contemplating de dollarisation even with the threat of removal from SWIFT and sanctions. Libya and Iraq were invaded because they had those thoughts of selling their oil in other currency and gold. Venezuela and Iran have been under blockade assasination and still hanging on to its chagrin. Occupied Germany is vavering in its obedience while the Japanese obey. Can US get India to fight China ? Its desperate for Ukraine to break the Minsk Accords and attack Donbas drawing in the Russians to protect the Russian speaking majority. This will lead to EU sanctions and removal from SWIFT and the cancellation of Nord Stream they calculate. Russia like Iran has to bite its lip and take one provocation after another without being drawn in, as it was in Afghanistan. Yet on the Pacific front China’s red line of Taiwan is where US will overreach their goading. A conflict on either front will bring about an economic world crash like no other. Adults in the deep state are starting to raise the alarm. China is so invested in reunification that it will not bite its lip. Hear what the PM of Singapore and ex M16 stalwarts are saying. UK will blindly do as its told. Germany fears its prosperity supporting East Europe and losing cheap Russian gas. US is rudderless with both neocons and neo liberals tied to their donors in the arms industry. I think the Obama Pivot to encircle China and stop its development will lead to war. When this war escalates out of control, our Governments already have in place legislation to control every aspect of our lives. All this because US can’t give up its financial control of the world economy because its a debt ridden basket case otherwise.
Talking of the US Military….the old WWI German refrain: “Devils in Skirts”, seems appropriate, but, for all the wrong reasons.
“When this war escalates out of control, our Governments already have in place legislation to control every aspect of our lives. All this because US can’t give up its financial control of the world economy because its a debt ridden basket case otherwise.”
Good post. The game really is up for the US financially. It is currently “borrowing” more money in order to pay the INTEREST on it’s existing (insane) National debt of almost $29 TRILLION (approximately $80,000 for every man, woman and child in the country)
There is a guy called John Titus who explains the ongoing US financial meltdown on youtube – I can’t recommend his channel enough:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLvRDyn_rVvZ7RRwdcEiJGw
I think the explanation for the last two years of utter insanity is much more likely to be found here than in a medical textbook.
Ben.
This story carries about as much veracity as the NYT’s puff piece on the missing Chinese tennis player.
A link or two would help.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/11/new-york-times-invents-sexual-assault-case-to-blame-china.html
https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2021/11/12/another-bogus-russian-war-scare/
R o S
BBC’s Radio 4 repeats the lies about sexual assault and even got Sir I . D – S from the “”” China Research Group “”” to repeat the lies, risking a confrontation about a tennis tournament.
The BBC daily bombards me with US accents and trivia, so all the more surprising that weekly anti-US government facts and discussions are published by moonofalabama.
Freedom of speech helps both the nutters and the wise equally. So I will say it again, the reason there are 4000 Kurdish people trying to escape from Kurdistan is that USUKIS are stealing Kurdish oil and nothing is provided for the Kurdish people. Kurdistan has the same amount of oil as Libya.
We still haven’t apologised for the African Slave Trade, so we’re not about to admit to the colonial invasion of Libya and Iraq.
@Giyane “We still haven’t apologised for the African Slave Trade”
This is toadying up to BLM and Woke Critical Race Arguments. It becomes meaningless virtue signalling if it is also not asked who from Africa is also to apologise for the “African Slave Trade”
The slave trade in Africa had been thriving for centuries before Europeans established trade routes to the continent, the ancient kingdoms of Africa became wealthy and powerful on the backs of human trafficking. Europeans getting rich from the Atlantic Slave Trade did so as Johnny come latelies to the business.
The Mediterranean and Indian Ocean slave trade was in existence long before Europeans had learned how to wash properly…_
@Giyane “We still haven’t apologised for the African Slave Trade”
To have meaning and to avoid predictable outrage any such apology would need to be preceded by enlightening our own society about when slavery reached its maximal development and existed in its vilest (hereditary and racialized) form.
That is, during the golden age of English and American liberalism and at the heart of the western liberal world.
But do not expect to ever hear that fact spelt out in western schools, or liberal or conservative media.
Digger UK,
On a serious note this video might help to put things in perspective:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm4NxB9SKfc
Digger
I do not like to use the word ‘whataboutery’ very much, but it seems to describe exactly what you are saying. So the Johnny come lately who invaded Africa to civilize the natives instead adopted their traditional slavery model and extended it to the new transatlantic colonies and made vast profits from this. But that is OK because they were only carrying on the traditions of the locals.
Interesting lecture Courtenay Barnett, definitely worth a watch. Made me go check out the Barbados Irish link too.
Unless I’m mistaken ? The Kurds don’t have any oil, I believe what you are probably referring to is Syrian oil.
DiggerUK
Oh, the history excuse , that it was bad before and we didn’t make it much worse.
After all those Africans would have previously been engaged in constant tumultuous wars sweeping across their continent, so chopping sugar cane was an slight improvement , even under the duress of being murdered, tortured or raped by their colonial masters.
Under Saddam Hussain the Iraqi share of revenue from oil.production was 2% and the country was rich. Whereas, under the benign interventions of Blair Obama and now Biden, there is peace , so long as oil keeps pumping, under the duress of being savaged tortured or raped by the West’s Islamic State.
Plus ca change, plus sh’ est la fxxxing meme chose.
Brian mulrooney
Latest figures on Kurdish oil revenues are $344,440,000,000.00 per day.
4.4 billion barrels per day at almost $76.00 per barrel. Nice work if you can get it.
Yesterday Kurdish students blocked the main road through the country demonstrating against the government not paying wages or student bursaries.
The owners of the licence for this oil are Genel, a London company.
Brian mulrooney
Sorry, latest figures for Iraqi Kurdistan oil production are 4.4 million barrels per day @ $ 84.00 per barrel = $369,600,000.00 per day.
@Digger
A man who experienced both African and European slavery later wrote about the experience of both in his own words and seems to contradict the context your argument is trying to create: of some equivalence between African tribal slaves and the European slavers.
It’s called An Interesting Narrative by Olaudah Equiano. See for yourself here: https://faculty.uml.edu/bmarshall/The%20Interesting%20Narrative%20of%20the%20Life%20of%20Olaudah%20Equiano.pdf
This description comes in the context of a bloody skirmish between tribes, witnessed by the young Equiano:
“Those prisoners which were not sold or redeemed we kept as slaves: but how different was their condition from that of the slaves in the West Indies! With us they do no more work than other members of the community, even their masters; their food, clothing and lodging were nearly the same as theirs, (except that they were not permitted to eat with those who were free-born); and there was scarce any other difference between them, than a superior degree of importance which the head of a family possesses in our state, and that authority which, as such, he exercises over every part of his household. Some of these slaves have even slaves under them as their own property, and for their own use.”
@J, I have read that book by Olaudah Equiano. The last time a little over 2years ago.
I hope, if nothing else, visitors here at least read your link and then perhaps go on to read the book. It can be found for free on line.
Then they can perhaps answer who the captured prisoners were sold to when he records “Those prisoners which were not sold or redeemed we kept as slaves” I suggest they were sold to slavers, not abolitionists.
The conditions of old world slaves were as varied as new world wage slaves…_
It’s explained in the book. They were traded with other tribes and some tribes traded with Europeans but in his description slaves were more akin to criminals and prisoners of war, who were nevertheless treated more like family than slaves. What you can’t deny is that his work creates an entirely different context to the one you are attempting to fashion.
This thread has expanded to slavery. It should than also mention the slave OWNERS even longer history. And who they were and are.
We should briefly mention the ‘Kurds’ drowning in the Channel are coming from the areas under FUKUS control. How and Why are questions not answered but the fact they have something to do with our rotters of deep state is blindingly obvious by the fact that deadly duo of Syria Campaign PR spooks Harding and Chulov are deployed to the Channel ports to ‘report’ on these refugees by the Groaniad.
Back to the Slaves there is no mention here of slaves purpose bred for generations as so many farmed animals. These slave villages exist across the great slave trade routes, the people who are bred and know they only exist as slaves. They are the Dalits of India; the northern tribes of Thailand , etc
And is.
Living in our western grottoes of self delusional freedom, democracy and choice under daily Narrative control – we have our own slave village mentality- most notably in garrison towns, Armament manufacturies bucolic backwaters and pretty much all areas where a steady guaranteed job for life has made us the slaves of our Forever Owners. Submitting easily to rule by vacuous Royalty, their aristo dumb cowardly martial families who have never done a days work in many generations except garner military rank and portraits and ‘jobs’ in the MoD and as judges and Bankers ,Civil Service or the City through just being some aristo type. We are trained to respond to button pushing by their agents and minions – yes sir three bags full sir! BrexShit no problem. Kill Arabs and Afghanis? Yemenis? Africans? Sah yes sah. Hate Assange? Corbyn? Salmond? Ooh yes baby hit me one more time.
Speak truth to power and get bashed! No problem for dumbed downtoned little englanders that we daily refuse to see that we are gaslighted into being.
Craig Murray is now more powerful by their blundered panicky kangaroo courts and bought judges xmas us going to be jolly as he catches up on events!
Is that why the board has been filling up with revellers last week? Hmm?
@SA,
you will find that Europeans did not invade Africa to trade slaves, there was no need to invade. They simply turned up at the trading posts on the Atlantic coast and traded with the African slave traders.
Guns, gunpowder, flints, lead shot, brandy and luxury goods were some of the goods traded for slaves. It was a business arrangement, not imperial conquest.
If you stop and pause for a second, what kind of invader gives the latest weapons to the locals?
Invasion and empire building by europeans in “The Scramble for Africa” was in the latter half of the 19th century and didn’t take off until after the Atlantic slave trade was abolished …_
Digger
This is a very simplistic version of history of colonialism. The European countries, Portugal and Spain to start with then followed by Britain and France started by colonizing America which was a much easier target in those days without the disease infested jungles. The rush to the Americas required cheap labour and Europeans got these from Africa. You are quite right in that initially the Europeans did not colonize to get the slaves as they bought them from local kingdoms and rulers. But this was not a selfless act, but a very pragmatic one. The life expectancy of Europeans inside Africa was very short due to Malaria and other diseases. It was only after the discovery of Cinchona bark in the late 17th century as a treatment for malaria that Europeans started to venture and colonize the continent.
Of course locals played a very big part in the slave trade and in Fact several West African governments have apologized for their countries’ role in the slave trade but there is a lot of evidence that slavery within Africa was more of a cottage industry rather than the mass industrialized one of the transatlantic slave trade. Moreover slavery within Africa did not carry the long term generational and racial stamp that is the case in the transatlantic slave trade where slaves were completely othered and this has left a long shadow on the state of racial discrimination in the US and UK which persisted to a large extent well into the 1960’s and persists in some structural issues even now.
Slavery and colonization both have made capitalism thrive and leading to the current one sided globalization. This can be seen in the current state of Africa which still remain exploited and will do so as long as the system of exploitation prevails.
SA,
“ Slavery and colonization both have made capitalism thrive and leading to the current one sided globalization. This can be seen in the current state of Africa which still remain exploited and will do so as long as the system of exploitation prevails.”
Indeed:-
https://blackcommentator.com/170/170_guest_barnett_reparations_pf.html
Thanks Courtenay. Some of what you write is reflected in later developments. Of course the oil in Sudan finally resulted in that country being split so that the West and cronies can now plunder the oil, but the conditions of the independent Southern Sudanese far from benefiting from this oil has led to a perpetual civil war.
And as to the DRC, this is such a tragic case. Despite the massive deposit of minerals that have led to much developments of electronics, and more recently in the uses of cobalt, the Congo remains poor and with poor governance but always seemingly outside the radar of the supposed do-gooders. Western corporations are making a killing and nobody seems to care.
And Digger
“If you stop and pause for a second, what kind of invader gives the latest weapons to the locals?”
It happens all the time. Profit is the most important consideration. Moreover having rifles or for that matter F-35s doesn’t stop the supplier from controlling the bullets or the other more complex aspects of maintenance that are needed to make these weapons effective. Also they were supplying the weapons to their own Quislings not to those they were colonizing.
Giyane. There was a very powerful film out in the 80’s called Yol. It charts the stories of a individual prisoners in Turkey and their journey’s back home covering a Kurd to a vengeful murderous husband.
As for an apology for the slave trade, or any other imperial conquest leading to barbaric treatment and exploitation of the local population and stealing of their resources – an apology means nothing but just a simple acknowledgement of what happened and how its true nature was hidden. Only now we hear what Canada did to its native children. No, an apology is meaningless, demands for apology only bring out those from the woodwork who are proud of the Great Empire and that we once ruled the whole world. However, there was a little-mentioned question of compensation. In his book the holocaust industry, Professor Norman Finkelstein shows how one group did manage to get millions out of German Companies, yet mostly going to scammers not to victims. The irony was that at height of the Empire its own working people at home were in abject poverty and now their descendents are proud of it ?!
Are we less than a week till our Craig’s release? _ with apologies to DiggerUK for splitting a thread. If so where is the latest news I might share/trumpet in twitterland (for what that is worth)?
—
[ Mod: There’s some news at the top of the page, and an announcement in the Discussion Forum – Craig release date 30th November – be there if you can.
To avoid splitting a sub-thread, kindly use the ‘Leave a Comment’ box at the end of the article. ]
Portuguese explorers in 1440 expected to find (or so they told their financial backers) gold lying around waiting to be picked up round the bulge of West Africa (into what we call the Bight of Biafra). Instead they found human societies with classes, a division of labour and traders who knew the value of gold and drove a hard bargain. The Portuguese were invited to a party and returned the favour on their ships. When the guests woke up, they were at sea; some jumped overboard rather than be carried into servitude. The Eurofilth did not find traders waiting to haggle over the price of people, that evolved later.
Squeeth
The US is signalling that it will intervene in Eritrea.
But what the US means by intervention is not the normal meaning of intervene. They mean, sinking their hollow vampire fangs into the oil arteries of a region.
I so admire those protestors at Glasgow. They understood what blah blah means.
So ooo—-looking forward to seeing Craig’s blog once again. He will have so much more to give his opinion on. How will I catch up on everything? I have been bereft for several months now, while all this ‘stuff’ has been going on. Croeso’n ol !!
Hope that many of you can make it for Craigs release at 10 am, St. Andrews day 30th. Nov.
I’m sure his speech will be fitting of the times and actualities. I will be making a trip up there for a day or two to be part of his release to freedom.
Looking forward to meeting you all
I wish I could make the trip up to Edinburgh. Illness prevents this, but I’ll be there in spirit!
Meanwhile our Home Secretary is quietly making it a criminal offence to protest or to even be caught whilst thinking of protesting
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/priti-patel-anti-protest-powers-stuffed-policing-bill-1316830?s=09
“Now police can deploy stop and search to avoid “serious disruption” or a “public nuisance”. They can be initiated “whether or not the constable has any grounds for suspecting that the person… is carrying a prohibited object”. It’s carte blanche for invasive police action against activists.”
It will also soon be an offence to be caught with a tube of superglue, and you could end up in jail for just under a year.
“Patel then appears to take direct aim at the Insulate Britain protests. Amendment 319C criminalises “wilful obstruction of a highway”. Amendment 319D criminalises the obstruction of “major transport works”, including roads, rail lines or airport runways. Amendment 319A creates an offence of “locking on”, or carrying equipment which might facilitate it. It targets anyone who attaches themselves to “a person, to an object or to land”. These all come with a potential 51 week prison sentence. In fact, this penalty is plastered all over the legislation.”
The Opposition will criticise her for not going further, particularly on anti-Apartheid, anti-Israel protests.
Priti Patel is horribly misnamed, there is nothing pretty about her. Her latest outburst ( I can’t really call it anything else) is particularly outlandish. It reminds me of the words of Frank Zappa’s “Your mind is the ugliest part of your body”, of which the title is the most significant.
I wonder what she would have made of the recent news of the death of Maj. Ian Fishback. * The man who alerted his seniors of the abuse of detainees at various places in Iraq and elsewhere. Does the home secretary really imagine people will not resist the unqualified abuse of power and absurd corruption of the ill informed regime she peculiarly personifies.
* https://uk.news.yahoo.com/major-ian-fishback-dead-42-200042739.html ?
Lip readers allege that under her breath she said “Trebles all round.” during her turn in the Commons.
“Does the home secretary really imagine people will not resist the unqualified abuse of power and absurd corruption of the ill informed regime she peculiarly personifies.”
Perhaps the home secretary does not believe that and a plan has already been drawn up.
Fascism by the backdoor would be another word for it. Now does this new policing bill come with the powers to build new prisons ( never mind the 40 hospital pipe dream) or any powers to build concentration camps to hold those protesters whose numbers increase.
Does she really want to criminalise the future taxpayers who will be vital for their antiquated pension system? provide them with a criminal record and all that entails?
The psychopath that have ruined trade with Europe and are prepared to scrap the Human Rights Act to be able to stop/ram/deflate boats in mid channel, rather than having an immigration and asylum policy that can order the inward migration, which btw. is a fraction of those who are leaving this s..t show, should be stopped by any means.
Once the human rights act is scrapped protesters will respond to the brutalities such laws bring with them. My experience is that the police will always look the other way when the hired criminal thugs, bouncers employed by Group 4/today’s equivalent security agencies, touch or hurt people, commit sexual abuse, to cause anger in male protesters, in the hope that they commit an offense and loose their cool.
That is what happened at Twyford Down and it will always be the way of this slimy judiciary.
Once protesters are on the rap of authorities and busy with the rigmarole of court proceedings, they are out of the loop, SO THEY THINK, but without the guidance of a Human Rights Act, a tit for tat/eye for an eye, a totally different kind of activism could respond in a less than non violent way.
Political policing of draconian powers could have a price tag in future that some might find to high to stomach. This development sets us on to the way US armed policing is carried out. Control and order ueber alles.
So well Put I just Cant Get over this.. Thank you
Sorry I can’t Be there.
Apologies for spoiling people’s last Friday night before Our Absent Host hopefully makes his longed-for triumphant reappearance, but I couldn’t resist sharing this with you before I hit the Buckfast spritzers:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-kier-starmer-wokeism-b1964432.html
So let’s get this straight: Blair is now saying that Labour shouldn’t have supported gay rights in the 80’s – a time when I would imagine that most gay people would have more than welcomed any measure of support they could get – and that Starmzy should ‘wage war’ against socialism – which, if the War in Afghanistan is anything to go by, will probably mean that in 20 years’ time, socialism will come riding in from the forgotten wastes on a stolen Yamaha 125, dressed in pajamas & flip-flops with a 50-year old, poorly-maintained AKM slung over its shoulder, to take its place in the highest echelons of power, virtually unopposed.
pete, the death of yet another whistle blower. Its been a Gangsters Paradise where financial control of the world, invasion, overthrow, murder on a colosal scale are glorified and celebrated as the rules based order. The corrupted and blackmailed politicians and media are as guilty as the torturers. A military man who has the audacity and selfless bravery to speak out will forever be remembered. The cover versions of the song Gangsters Paradise without the rap and orchestration will from now remind me of Ian Fishback.
Bring back Michael Foot! He was certainly light years ahead of any Labour leader since, except perhaps Corbyn (although I probably prefer Foot to Corbyn).
I seem to remember (correct me if I’m wrong – it was a long time ago) that Michael Foot’s main problem was getting stabbed in the back by the likes of Dennis Healey, who was on the right of the party at the time (although would probably be kicked out for being too left wing today) so it all makes the ousting of Corbyn look depressingly typical.
By the way, if Tony Blair spouts anything, who cares? Isn’t he a has-been? Note the photograph in the Independent article to which you linked – where he is wearing a blue tie and trying his best to look every inch a Tory (which of course he is).
I’m wondering if there is much difference between Starmer and Johnson. Could someone remind me of the role played by Starmer in ensuring that Julian Assange got banged up?
Thanks again for your reply Jimmy. I’m not sure that Labour wants to resurrect Michael Foot; indeed I’m of the opinion that at least part of Corbyn’s downfall can be attributed to his adoption of similar black NHS-type specs halfway through his leadership. I think some kind of Clive Lewis type figure might be good – without the (alleged) sex pest stuff obvs. Then there’s always housewives/husbands’ choice Andy Burnham, who might be amenable to being lured away from his Mancunian sojourn with the right incentives.
I wouldn’t normally post any of Blair’s utterings on this site, but I thought that his decrying Labour’s record on gay rights(and other aspects of social policy) was something else. I must confess that I didn’t notice what colour his tie was in the photo as I was too pre-occupied being unsettled by his cold, dead eyes.
In answer to your questions: on a personal level, I think there’s a large gulf between Starmzy and Boris; on a political / economic one, I’d say Boris is slightly more left-wing. Starmzy’s exact role in the Assange affair when he was DPP is probably classified information, though I doubt the CPS official who warned the Swedish prosecutors not to get ‘cold feet’ was acting on their own volition.
+ Why are we not talking about 30 / 28 people Dead in the Sea Floor… E Channell… Fucking Breaks My Hreart….. And Why do we keep saying – Men, Women, Children… It’s CHILDREN, Women, men
Sorry…I can’t at Craig’s.
Brian – yes, indeed. Can anyone explain to me why the UK government are going to such lengths to keep them out?
Actually, it’s much worse on the Polish-Belarus border, where there seems to be a starve-and-freeze-them-to-death policy in operation.
The whole business is very sick and twisted.
What in effect is happening is the same approach that this UK government and to some extent the EU are taking, not to look at the causes of the problem and try and sort them, but to criminalize the desperate people fleeing not only conflict zones, but also countries under heavy western sanctions. The same approach is also being taken with regards now to civil disobedience where draconian new laws are being proposed against any one dissenting.
Countries of the west have forgotten how they have contributed to serious previous waves of illegal immigration to the new world and Oceania but because they colonized these regions and made the rules, these colonizers became the owners of the places they emigrated to.
Yeah
Jimmy
Trying to keep tabs on RT.. Where Else
Brian – thanks for the suggestion of looking at RT.
I just looked at it and found this
https://www.rt.com/news/539821-poland-belarus-border-crisis/
It is a good summary, but it’s from 9th November – and I haven’t found any more recent coverage on RT.
I tend to get most of my news these days from `Polityka’ (polityka.pl) and their coverage was very good a few weeks ago, but they seem to have gone quiet on it – even though essentially nothing has changed and there are still people dying in the forests on the Belarus-Poland border.
Jimmy.
Yes the Polish army and the EU, and UK troops on the ground, are determined to keep them out, by using watercannons, flashbangs, teargas, razorwire and concrete blocks put in their path, whilst in the channel its a travesty that some have drowned, the stench of hypocrisy is breathtaking.
All this was predicted when the British Nationality Bill was going through in 1980. In those days the corp-0-rat media had a few reporters in it who decribed the implications of Festung Britannia. As usual the racist Liarbour Partei was happy for Thatchler to take up the poison chalice. From 1997 to 2010 Liarbour retained the act and abolished anti-slavery laws. There are still people who think they’re decent who support these evil bastards.
On the Polish border I see weird comments from Deutsche Welle Ru. They blame Lukashenko of this situation saying he intentionally brought migrants into the country and forwarded them to the Polish border.
Deutsche Welle emphasized ‘the land border’ and it made me think of Belorussian Airlines banned from flying to the EU as a sanction for the oppositionist Protasevich detention.
Tatyana.
If the refugees had been coming from anywhere but Belarus into the EU they wouldn’t have been met with such hostility, its because Lukashenko is allied with Russia.
I have read that Lukashenko (and I don’t agree with him using the refugees in this manner) is letting them pass through Belarus to the Polish border because of EU/US sanctions against the country, and that he’ll stop allowing them to cross through Belarus to the Polish border, if the EU and the US drops the sanctions and that they recognise his election win.
Of course what the US wants is Lukashenko removed and replaced with a compliant puppet, to further surround Russia with nukes, is it any wonder then that Putin has completely disowned Nato now. Not only that but it has exposed the hypocrisy of the EU bigwigs when it comes to the refugees.
Are you seriously suggesting that Lukashenko didn’t fly in the migrants to destabilize the border?
Goodwin – as I understand it, they bought a ticket and hopped on the aeroplane to Minsk.
In just the same way as I would have liked to buy a ticket and hop on the aeroplane back to Edinburgh to welcome Craig Murray out of jail (and would have done if Wizz had been offering anything feasible – and Commissar Sturgeon wasn’t threatening to shove me in the slammer if I failed a PCR test on the second day in Scotland).
I don’t really understand why there is a problem with people buying a ticket to fly to Minsk – and I don’t really understand why the Polish government is going to such extreme lengths to keep them out. They are, after all, people, just the same as everybody else.
Goodwin.
Oh right I see, the West does virtually nothing to stop the people smugglers, smuggle refugees/immigrants into the EU and the UK for that matter, Lukashenko, helps them to reach the EU border at Poland and the Western media, politicians and EU bigwigs complain bitterly about it, after applying sanctions to Belarus, and we all know fine well its all down to Belarus being allied to Russia, oh the hypocrisy.
RepublicofScotland – actually, it isn’t completely clear to me that Lukashenko actually *actively* assisted them; he simply had border control for the migrants entering Belarus which is similar to border control between Schengen countries within the EU (i.e. not very much).
What is so wrong with that? Why should he spend huge amounts of money hiring people to do passport control, just to please the EU?
Actually, Belarus is as much political ‘ally’ of Russia as to NOT recognize the Crimea as Russian territory. What keeps us ‘allied’ is cheap gas price Belarus gets from Gasprom – sheer pure economic reasons.
As to the migrants, I don’t see how Lukashenko is to blame, when it’s Poland who doesn’t let them enter Poland for further moving to Germany. Lukashenko quite sincerely points out that Germany said they can accept 2000 of those migrants. But on November 8 there were news about shooting at the border and also about some injured people.
You must also understand, that Poland is monoethnical country with strong self-centered mentality and they have some issues with the EU now. I guess it’s Poland who tries to make some profit of the situation.
Also I think it’s Ukraine who maybe got involved into this crisis. They recently revealed the truth about ‘Russian mercenaries coming to Belarus to overthrow Lukashenko’, if you remember that story happened just before the election. Now Ukraine boasts it was their operation, and they even boast it will become iconic intelligence operation for textbooks, comparing themselves to Mossad etc.
So, I believe Poland and Ukraine try to bend the EU and particularly Germany, because the Nord Stream 2 is about to start bringing cheap gas to Europe, when these 2 countries start losing huge profits from transition via their pipelines. Ukraine tries to jump into the NS2 certification committee.
T: “[…] I don’t see how Lukashenko is to blame […]”
You mean Lukashenko had no idea that Belarus was suddenly chartering a greatly increased number of flights to Iraq, Lebanon, Dubai and other places, he just didn’t know that all these visas were being processed, had zero clue that these visitors – in unprecedented numbers – were all making their way to the Polish border?
And Lukashenko also was completely ignorant of the fact – and it is a fact – that his security people were handing out wirecutters and urging these migrants to cross to Poland, and perhaps nobody on his side had an inkling that smoke, strobe lights, lasers etc. were being used to distract border guards, when breaches were being attempted?
Are you saying he was entirely kept in the dark, or has lost his grip so much his own forces are out of his control? Perhaps there’s another reason why Lukashenko is not to blame – please tell us.
glenn_uk
You say “Belarus was suddenly chartering a greatly increased number of flights to Iraq, Lebanon, Dubai and other places” – I’m not aware of this alleged fact. Would you please provide a link to support this claim?
In russian-speaking sources I see news like this:
https://pikabu.ru/story/esli_vyi_poydete_v_minsk_myi_spustim_na_vas_sobak_chto_govoryat_o_belarusi_iraktsyi_kotoryie_vernulis_domoy_8644229
“…A woman from the city of Zakho said that her family paid about 20 thousand dollars to the smugglers, but they brought her only to the Polish border.
…Dalia Xalaf, 24, from Sinjar city, also said she paid about $ 20,000 for her family.
…About 1,000 Iraqis who tried to enter the EU via the “Belarusian route” returned home on evacuation flights from Minsk. They shared their impressions of their stay in Belarus with the journalists of the Kurdistan24 TV channel.”
Then, you describe the behaviour of desperate people at the border. Though emotionally it’s heart-breaking, but how you can blame Lukashenko of that, when dismissing the fact it’s Poland who do not let them in?
I’ve got a video link, in Russian
https://youtu.be/MMLq719etJ4
Lukashenko visits a refugee camp and says to people: “I understand that you are trying to get into the EU, you were invited there, you have part of your family there. I understand that in your homeland you do not see any prospects for your children. Belarus will not play with your lives and destinies for the sake of politics. You must decide for yourself whether you want to continue to endure adversity, or prefer to return to your homeland.”
Then, Lukashenko adresses journalists, saying: “I see many representatives of western media here, I want to let them know – Belarus will support these refugees, even if it harms Poland, or Lithuania, or someone else”.
And another on the migrants crisis:
https://youtu.be/a46HtxxdR6A
Poland is not to accept the migrants. Poland is asked to provide a humanitarian corridor for passage to Germany.
4:17 “If migrants were trying to break into Belarus, we would let them in, and deal with the situation, and act according to the law. It was they (*the West) who set them up like this when they bombed Baghdad” – Oleg Gaidukevich, deputy of the House of Representatives of Belarus.
4:40 Klaus Ernst from the Bundestag believes that there is no migration crisis, but there is a problem with the Belarusian authorities.
5:05 “It’s hard for you to deal with me, because I don’t dance to your music” – Lukashenko
Lukashenko offered to transport migrants by Belavia planes, so now Germany has the ball. But Frau Merkel is playing for time, waiting for the new chancellor to take office in order to throw the responsibility on him.
I understand most of you don’t speak Russian, so please let me know if you want me translate the whole video for you.
Tatyana – whether Poland is ‘monoethnical’ (as you put it) or not is neither here nor there, since everybody – absolutely everybody understands that when the migrants cross the border into Poland, they will immediately make a breenge for Germany – and they won’t stop in Poland.
Indeed, when journalists from Wyborcza were looking for an anti-PiS story and looking to interview some migrants to find out just how badly they had been treated, they went to *Germany* to find people who had actually been able to cross the border. They knew full well that they wouldn’t find any in Poland.
It might be helpful for you to think of sovereignty issues as dogs peeing against lamp posts (although if we think of Pritti Patel in such terms, then it is an insult to the canine community) – that is basically what we have going on here. Somehow, the territorial borders seem very important to them – and it is very important that people don’t get in via unauthorised routes and without some bureaucratic official first giving some approval. Lukashenko’s plan to provide extra routes through the border is a definite no no.
Jimmy Riddle
I’ve just had the third cup of coffee and a good half of a big chocolate bar – to clear my brain 🙂 – but still I’m unable to see that wicked Lukashenko’s plan to provide extra routes through the border. What are you talking about? Any links? What is the base for such statements?
The Carnegie Russian Center estimates the crisis in numbers:
“We are talking about 3000 or 4000 refugees who have accumulated at the border for several months. Many other EU countries would pay dearly for their daily migration routines to be reduced to this size.
Over the past decade, the EU accepted 500 000 new refugees a year and this is considered a rather low and tolerable figure. This year alone, 55 000 refugees have moored to the shores of Italy. And this is considered a serious decline, because in the mid-2010s, there were 150 000 – 200 000 of them annually.”
https://carnegie.ru/commentary/85759
So, what is all that fuss about?
Tatyana – indeed – although the migrants must have got their wire cutters from somewhere. I doubt if they were allowed to take such equipment on the aeroplane to Minsk and I also doubt if they found a convenience store that was willing to sell them such equipment. Usually there are some pictures to illustrate items which are prohibited for passengers on aeroplanes – and this usually includes equipment to cut through razor wire.
I noticed that no one here asks the question why the refugees land in Belarus, instead of flying directly to Poland or even in Germany itself.
And now about the mono-ethnicity of Poland:
98% of the population are ethnic Poles.
In 2018, when the EU distributed quotas for refugees, Poland announced that it would not accept migrants from the Middle East and North Africa, nor would they accept any quotas, neither would they accept a single refugee.
In the current crisis, when Germany cannot guarantee the admission of these 3000-4000 refugees, Poland doesn’t allow them to cross the border, fearing that these refugees will remain in Poland.
And I think that stories about Lukashenko’s hostile plan are just made up to divert public attention from the fact, that Poland’s point on those migrants is racist. The EU tries to hide this, because Poland is a member of the EU and NATO.
Any blame for the “ìmmigrant`crisis`surely falls on the shoulders of the imperialists-including the UK- who have made life in several countries in the middle east and elsewhere so intolerable as to force people, in millions, to flee for safety. Naturally they choose, as their destination, countries which bomb others rather than those which are bombed.
While the crocodile tears of the western media flood our brains the clear reality is that the immigrants in question are fleeing places like Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine and Yemen.
If Lukashenko is indeed responsible for funnelling these victims towards the source of their sorrows – the NATO – then he is performing a public service.
Let us put this as clear as possible: there would be no immigrant mass risking everything in its search for safety if we kept the likes of Blair and Cameron under control by depriving them of the power to kill foreigners on an industrial scale.
T: “I noticed that no one here asks the question why the refugees land in Belarus, instead of flying directly to Poland or even in Germany itself.“
Nobody asks because the answer is so obvious. Poland and Germany are not handing out visas like confetti. Perhaps you think otherwise, but then you would have to answer your own question.
T: ” You say “Belarus was suddenly chartering a greatly increased number of flights to Iraq, Lebanon, Dubai and other places” – I’m not aware of this alleged fact. Would you please provide a link to support this claim? “
Certainly, there’s quite a good article on it here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/13/world/middleeast/belarus-migrants-iraq-kurds.html
Bevin: ” If Lukashenko is indeed responsible for funnelling these victims towards the source of their sorrows – the NATO – then he is performing a public service.“
That’s hardly the way anyone actually involved in this whole sorry process sees it. A bunch of miserable, frozen migrants sitting on the border – who have lost large amounts of their money for this privilege – won’t be feeling this way. Nor will the people in the countries to which they want to go, for the greatest part.
One question which never gets answered, at least I’ve never seen one, is this : What’s the upper capacity of this country, the UK? How many people do you think we should welcome here, for instance? At least half the world’s population would prefer to live here, or in France or Germany. You appear to think anyone should be able to choose whatever country they like and simply turn up.
So should we draw the line at 100 million, 250 million, or where?
Jimmie Riddle
you’re so concerned about the wire cutters 🙂 Listen to those who saw the situation with their own eyes
“They come to Belarus legally – everyone has visas and can move around the country. They receive the status of “illegal migrants” on the border with Poland and Lithuania, who do not want to let them in.
A visa to Belarus costs € 60. In the summer, Middle Eastern migrants were given visas right at the airport. After the first exacerbations on the western border, the issuance of visas was stopped urgently.
Local taxi drivers are already accustomed to guests from the Middle East, they say that migrants are actively preparing for “standing” at the border – they buy warm clothes and tents in Minsk shopping centers.”
https://iz.ru/1248006/ekaterina-postnikova/pozadi-minsk-kak-zhivut-bezhentcy-na-granitce-belorussii-i-polshi
So, why do you think they cannot buy wire cutters as well?
Watch this video: https://youtu.be/MyF2–IHw-s
You see, not every migrant is going to the refugees camp. Some just walk freely around the city.
What do you think may prevent them from entering a shop to buy wire cutters?
I typed “buy hydraulic cutters Minsk” and Google Maps showed me 20 shops in the city.
Here is another opinion:
“… current refugees don’t want to live in poor Poland. Many of them are from rich families. The Kurdish Autonomous Regions have large deposits of oil and are not listed among the poor. In the fight against ISIS the Kurds were protected by the USA: the Americans covered their provinces from the air, supplied them with weapons – and the Kurds responded by assisting them in the fight against Islamists on the ground.
However, the Americans withdrew from the war, and the Kurds were abandoned. The Turks, the eternal enemies of the Kurds, now regularly carry out air raids on their strategic facilities, both in Syria and in Iraq.”
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/11/12/seks-politika-bilet-v-biznes-klass
Put it together with my above comment on Kurdistan24 TV channel report. If these refugees can spend $20 000 for the ‘Belorussian route to Europe’ so, well, I don’t think they cannot afford buying wire cutters.
glenn_nl – I have a serious problem with the whole concept of putting up border controls and keeping people out. I have lived and worked in several different countries – and none of them ever created any problems for me. I suppose that’s because I’m Scottish and somehow kilted Scotsmen are generally considered to be OK, while people from countries that the USA/UK military have trashed aren’t considered to be OK.
I don’t imagine the migrants would have had any difficulties getting into Poland (or indeed any other EU country) if they had all been incredibly brainy accomplished professors of nuclear physics – so there is some sort of snobbery here which stinks to high heaven.
glenn_nl
the link you’ve given – I cannot read the article, it is hidden behind the paywall. Nontheless, I googled “New York Times Iraqi Kurds” and I got this
https://news.zerkalo.io/life/5760.html
“Last week, The New York Times told the stories of several Iraqi Kurds who tried to enter the European Union through Belarus. One of the people the newspaper spoke to was Rebin Sirvan Majid, a 29-year-old journalist who traveled to Minsk to enter the EU. According to him, when he decided to ask for asylum in Belarus itself, representatives of the authorities immediately forcibly escorted him out of the country, while beating him. We contacted Rebin to find out the details of this story…”
I see the man was deported back to his homeland, nothing like he was given a wire cutters and forwarded to the Poland border.
T: ” I cannot read the article, it is hidden behind the paywall.“
The NYT allows for 20 articles a month, if you go there via a search engine. Perhaps it does not allow going to the site directly. If you search for NYT and “Migrants Say Belarusians Took Them to E.U. Border and Supplied Wire Cutters”, you’ll probably get it.
So the kindly Lukashenko had some journalist beaten up and deported when he asked for asylum, you say? And this is the same benevolent gentleman you quoted as saying he’d do anything to help migrants? How very odd! Unless – of course – he meant he’d do anything to help the migrants get into the rest of the EU. That seems much more likely.
By the way, you didn’t answer your own question – why don’t all these economic migrants fly directly to Germany or Poland?
JR: “glenn_nl – I have a serious problem with the whole concept of putting up border controls and keeping people out.“
OK, well half the world would like to be in the UK/ France / Germany, get free education, social support, healthcare and benefits. Should we ship them all here, at our own expense? I mean, we wouldn’t want to be elitist as you say, so people having absolutely no means of getting here should not be an obstacle to their migration.
Perhaps you can have a crack at the question to which I’ve never received an answer from migration enthusiasts. What’s the upper capacity for the UK? 250 million? A billion? Once that number is reached, what are you going to tell the other 4 or 5 billion people who’d like to show up too?
Perhaps there should be no limit at all. That way, when our country is so crowded it makes Hong Kong look positively deserted, nobody will want to come here any more. The market acting at its finest!
Glenn @14.41pm.
Linking to the NYT, jeezo oh, Chris Hedges would be shaking his head at that.
Better tell Craig off too then, RoS, for daring to reference the NYT – 42 minutes into this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_yYMs6oLQI
See my most recent above – the batshit deadly duo Harding and Chulov are on the ‘frontline’ stinks to high heavens and we are not being told the truth by the media as usual.
I decided to send Craig a last letter yesterday and then a brown envelope landed on the mat – it was my first attempt to send him some saes from October, returned as there weren’t enough stamps on it – bugger! I sent it back with the proper postage on it with the letter tucked inside. I hope it gets there before he gets out. All the best to those who can get to Edinburgh for the celebration. (I haven’t been there since I got married at the registry office in 1997.)
George Galloway talked about Craig Murray and Snat vindictiveness.
An appeal from Edward Snowden: “If we’re going to free the world, we have to free Assange”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KEBC9Ng4tA
I can’t make it over to Scotland tomorrow – much as though I would like to.
I don’t really imagine that the BBC will give much coverage to Craig’s release, his speech and the celebrations.
I was wondering if any of the good people who contribute here could give some indication – is anybody going to record the event? Will it be possible to watch it on the internet (for example – youtube)? If so, what are the co-ordinates?
Craig Murray – you’re a very brave and very remarkable man – my very best wishes.
I imagine that many supporters of Craig’s who are able to be there will be recording what happens on their smartphones and posting it on the internet, including a speech I understand he will make, come his release tomorrow morning.
Jimmy
Hopefully Independence Live with have it on from around 10am –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTOV0i2zOaw
Brian – many thanks for this. This is great – it’s exactly what I (and probably many others) want. I just clicked on it – and it says they’ll start broadcasting in 13 hours (when he is released).
Thanks to you for posting this – thanks to the `Independence Live’ people for doing this for us.
You are not alone in this Jimmy. Coming into Ely from Norwich this morning, we were told by loudhailer that the next train to Peterborough was cancelled and that all trains to Edinburgh were cancelled due to inclement weather and three weather related incidents along the route.
I turned around, there was no point in trying to reach the pre arranged date for tea with my son and his partner.
I wanted to give Craig a big hug listen to his speech and do some shopping at an excellent Sanderson’s butcher after, but it was not to be.
If there weren’t 1000 companies running the rail services, such information would have probably been disseminated to all major rail stations earlier in the day, with a chance to turn around there and then, but hey, I read the paper front to back and saw beautiful Ely in the sunshine.
it is what it is!
Shocker nevermind.. Been a lot of Adverse Conditions up here Esp the East..
I’m Changing over cars Tomorrow so couldn’t make it.
I left a youtube link for Jimmy Above..Hopefully that will be A Go.
If you really, really want to go you just might be able to fly there. It might even be cheaper than rail. Only an idea.
dont fly any more, sorry MJ. Train and railnetworks reliant on the management of roughly 1ooo companies couldnt possibly pull a hering of a plate.
Informationflow is understood as company internal first, not as something of national importance such as coherent fluidity of modes of transports.
Solidarity from across the pond.
Welcome home, Mr. Murray
“ What’s the upper capacity of this country, the UK? How many people do you think we should welcome here, for instance? At least half the world’s population would prefer to live here, or in France or Germany. You appear to think anyone should be able to choose whatever country they like and simply turn up…`Glenn Nl
The question that you avoid in your comment on my post is the central one, which is that all the refugees in question happen to come from countries attacked by the imperialists. That is why Iraqis, Syrians, Afghans, Libyans and Yemeni are currently seeking refuge in the NATO countries which make life in their own lands intolerable.
This is not a simple question of regulating immigration. It is a reminder of the many layers of evil consequences which come from imperialist aggression.
The discussion should not be limited to bombing and invasion. One of the biggest silent killers is sanctions usually practiced after bombing and stay hidden. Another issue is the one sidedness of neoliberal capitalist globalisation which is another one sided exploitation . The refugee crisis needs a global approach. If all the countries in the world genuinely work together to improve for the sake of all rather than the ever growing gulf between poor and rich.
An alternative take on the refugee issue is to consider that while there is all the noise about thousands entering the UK we quietly forget that the government invited five million Chinese from Hong Kong to come and reside in the UK !
Hypocrisy some might say ?
Actually, Bevin, I was not avoiding your question – I simply have nothing to disagree with you on the point. I do have a great deal of respect for your opinions and writing, you know.
What does puzzle me a bit, is why did you bother reproducing my question in full, only to completely ignore it yet again? OK, it’s all our fault. At least, the fault of the Establishment, which we all failed to curtail. But most people in the UK did not want war. Should we turn our country into an extra-dense version of Hong Kong in order to rectify the crimes of the Establishment?
I fear that if you continually ignore the question about the upper carrying capacity of the UK, it could appear that you are ducking the point.
glenn_nl as to the carrying capacity of the UK – hasn’t yet been reached.
However, erecting barricades and keeping people out through border control isn’t going to work (in addition to being unethical – it appears that most of the migrants who were drowned trying to cross the channel actually had close relatives in the UK. Getting smuggled across was the only way they could get to the UK. Surely you don’t think it is appropriate to split up families, do you)?
Let us consider sub-populations. I’d say that there are far too many financial engineers in the City of London, yet the place keeps attracting many, many more of them.
I remember a discussion of partial differential equations modelling vortex filaments which I had with some Russian mathematician in the late ’80’s or early ’90’s – where he thought that he had a good model to explain why Moscow kept expanding and the area round about seemed to be inexorably depopulating.
The current global market capitalist system makes this sort of thing pretty much inevitable – and you’ll find that trying to set up border controls to keep people out, yet at the same time using global capitalism as the basis for the economy simply isn’t going to work – it is like Canute trying to stop the waves.
JR: “glenn_nl as to the carrying capacity of the UK – hasn’t yet been reached.“
It hasn’t? OK, so what is the capacity then? It’s puzzling that you know a figure hasn’t been reached, but are completely unable to say what that figure is.
About “splitting up families” – ahem, how did they become “split up” in the first place? It appears you’re saying the path to immigration isn’t to learn a language, isn’t to acquire skills in demand, isn’t to comply with immigration requirements – I should just pile in and then demand my family has to join me on account of us being “split up”. And all the people who did apply in accordance with the laws of the country concerned, and are awaiting approval – more fool them, right? Only those who can muscle their way in are eligible in your system.
Actually Canute wasn’t trying to halt the tide, he was proving to his servile underlings that he was not – in fact – omnipotent.
So back to the point you’re so shy about – what’s the upper capacity? 500M? 1 Billion? And what happens then? This is the scenario you’re arguing in favour of, so I’m puzzled why you’re so coy about it.
glenn_nl – we’ll find out what the basic `carrying capacity’ of the UK is when it has been reached – and not before.
The basic point is that whether we like it or not, the government will not be able to implement any decision they make on the carrying capacity of the UK.
Under the current global economic model, you should not expect `thermodynamic equilibrium’ to be reached; the model where everything gravitates towards a very few `hot spots’, leaving huge swathes of nothingness seems more suited.
If you want this trend to be reversed (and you clearly do), then the only way is to build up the countries that the USA/UK military alliance has trashed, stop imposing those sanctions which hit the ordinary people of countries (while leaving their rulers unscathed) – and probably forget about global free-market capitalism.
As I indicated, I have been an `economic migrant’, moving to other countries where I found the job more attractive than anything I could find in Scotland – and I’d very much like to see others having the same opportunities that I had in this regard.
JR: “glenn_nl – we’ll find out what the basic `carrying capacity’ of the UK is when it has been reached – and not before.”
That’s a rather poor answer, but don’t worry – I’m not really disappointed because I’ve come to expect no better.
You can talk about “hot spots” all you like. But have you noticed that the roads are absolutely clogged throughout the entire country? That roads are in terrible condition, railways and public transport vastly under capacity and overpriced, hospitals running at the max, social services way past any semblance of reasonable performance, schools terribly overcrowded? Just to name a few of our problems. In fact, I would invite you to suggest any public good which is being met in any way adequately.
Do you seriously think “hot spots” will get any less hot, with increased density in the country at large?
Of course, you can wave all this away. Just “make it so!” and fund _all of it_ properly. But even then, it is difficult to suggest with any honesty that this country is not overcrowded. Yet you want to say there is no limit to the intake we can provide, and cannot even see that we have stretched ourselves in any way that suggests capacity limits are even in sight.
I’m not arguing that we are not responsible for alleviating the situation which causes mass migration, although it’s obvious that pushing the argument in that direction is a very convenient let-out and a distraction. While this country remains preferable to most of the rest of the world, we have to face up to the fact that more people want to be here than we can cope with.
It is simply political posturing to suggest there is no limit, that we cannot discuss it, and any attempt to do so must be drowned out in rhetoric on the evils of Empire, NATO, historical obligation and – I hate to say it – but general virtue signalling along these lines.
If you cannot name a limit, you simply have not thought about it very much. Or you are unwilling to contemplate what to do when that limit is reached – and as any ful no, it will be reached, with dire consequence, with the “all aboard!” strategy that you apparently favour.
glenn_nl – I don’t really know what sort of modelling you are considering. I’ve encountered the term `carrying capacity’ before in Lotka-Volterra predator-prey models, where the `carrying capacity’ indicates the quantity of prey that you would get in the absence of predators. Applied to this situation, `carrying capacity’ would be the number that the population would reach if we didn’t apply any constraints.
As you rightly pointed out, this is more-or-less unbounded.
As I tried to indicate, what you or I or indeed anybody else considers to be a desirable limit is pretty much irrelevant, since I simply don’t believe that any government can implement policies that will prevent people from coming. This is evidenced by the deep desire of the current administration in Westminster to keep people out (and they are putting quite a lot of money to it) – and their abject failure to do so. They can pass as many laws as they like, implement as much border security as they like – I simply don’t believe it will work.
The only way of doing it is to trash the country and make it an undesirable place to be – then people won’t want to come here. That might do the trick. The trouble is that implementing such policies could be unpopular ……
JR: “As you rightly pointed out, this is more-or-less unbounded.“
I pointed out no such thing. Like most of your replies, this one has very little bearing on the points to which you supposedly answer.
What I did point out was that the population is already rather high for the UK’s size, and an unlimited expansion of that population – which you favour – can only lead to further degradation. The population of the entire planet is way too high and rapidly increasing, and the devastating results to the environment are surely clear to all but the wilfully ignorant.
(The maximum population is what I was referring to by “carrying capacity” of a country, since the latter term appeared to confuse you so much. The term seemed obvious enough.)
With all due respect, the only point you are clearly making is that – like everyone else in favour of untrammelled immigration – you’re completely unwilling to address overpopulation, and terrified to go anywhere near indicating what the maximum population should be.
Welcome home Craig. We’ve sorely missed you.
Welcome home Craig.
We need you back.
Thanks
Tony
The Gordon Jackson Video affair.
Apologies if this is repeating covered ground.
I find the revelations aboard a train by Gordon Jackson hugely more serious than Craig’s. For a starter Jackson knew the law inside out. Discussing something in a public place i.e. train where recordings can quite easily made and disseminated is clearly “publishing”. Yet the crown in typical “protecting one’s own” fashion have deemed it not publishing. Jackson actually revealed names which Craig did not. This is shocking bias by the closed judiciary club.
Gone dark but lighting up! Welcome back into the light!
Amen.
Will Craig Murray make it to the list of most famous political prisoners? http://eskify.com/10-famous-political-prisoners/
Will he be listed before or after Bertrand Russell who did 6 months? Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi will stay top.
You’ll get a good sense from the amount of MSM news coverage his release receives, in an age of 24hr news coverage.
Antonym – well, we should do as much as we can to get his name onto the list of the most famous political prisoners.
This business stinks to high heaven – and we had always been led to believe that the Scottish legal system had some integrity about it. The people who did this (Lady Dorrian et. al.) must have their evil deeds exposed as publicly as possible.
Now is the time for celebration, though – my `youtube’ link tells me that the broadcast of Craig’s release will start in less than three minutes.
I’ve found another livestream here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlgnKWGKSIo
Thanks.
Well, is they is or is they ain’t a-letting him out?
It’s now 10.15 and we’ve seen 15 minutes of a door in HMP Edinburgh with no signs of anybody coming out.
Have they changed their minds?
OK – he’s out – and giving a great speech.
Any chance that the speech can be published here?
Warmest wishes, Craig!
New link for that stream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_yYMs6oLQI
thanks Clark, you should have been in charge of the link up. How can one do something like that without checking that there is no broken mic.
Very much looking forward to Craig being released from the absurd, unjust imprisonment.
Where is he?
Welcome home CraIg!
Trying to listen to Scottish wind with a few words from Craig. I hope somebody has a copy of the speech that one can hear.
Clark @9.40am.
Thanks for the link.
Craig looks rather distinguished with the new beard I think.
I wonder if they let him out at a different time to fool the crowd outside.
– “I wonder if they let him out at a different time to fool the crowd outside.”
Hopefully just desk jockeys with rules and regulations to adhere to. Echoes in Craig’s beard of Julian Assange being forced from the embassy.
Fab beard – but enough hanging around in artic conditions.
Where are the TV cameras and AI and RSF ? Look forward to a properly sounded link to his speech please.
Welcome home Craig,great to have you back!
CRAIG IS HOME!!!!’n ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️