The Feminist Defence of Blowing Out the Brains of Small Children

by craig on April 9, 2014 8:05 pm in Uncategorized

The number of people still prepared to defend the Iraq War in public is tiny.  The interesting thing is the very strong correlation between those people, and those prepared to pretend to give credence to the farcical sexual allegations about Julian Assange.  Zoe Williams Guardian piece about what a jolly good chap Blair is I find breathtaking.  War crimes like Blair’s result in terrible anguish for millions.  I am prepared for purposes of argument to believe that Williams’ anguish for female victims of crime is genuine; why she can’t extend that to the tens of thousands of women who were raped because of Blair’s Iraq War, or had the still worse agony of seeing their children killed and mutilated I don’t know.  Nick Cohen is just very, very sad.  I just hold up these two in the hope that those deceived by feminist political correctness into following their lead against Assange will see to what they are subscribing.

Rather a side issue, but even if we accept Zoe Williams view that dead Iraqi children don’t matter, she appears not to have noticed that Blair introduced tuition fees, academies, kick-started NHS privatization, allowed the banksters’ bonanza leading to worldwide economic crash and oversaw the greatest widening of the gap between rich and poor in British history.

 

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615 Comments

  1. Moral people agonies over the debate of abortion; but feminists [Gloria Steinem] urge women to celebrate the act.

    Just another example of feminism being a cult of death.

  2. Abortion comes in the category of those things to which I am strongly opposed, but which I do not think ought to be illegal. I think in general the state interferes rather too readily, particularly as the state itself is scarcely a persistently ethical actor.

  3. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 8:56 pm

  4. ‘The State’, which entered the war under the banner of democracy, utilizes ‘feminism’, of which there is no obvious mechanism of democracy.

    Where does a woman go if she wishes to add to the feminist manifesto? Hence feminism is an anti-democratic tool for the State to effect policy through emotional propaganda.

  5. Blair & Co. also sent British troops into Helmand province in Afghanistan in 2006, with dreadful results for the people of that area.

    A new book by a former British army officer apparently sheds more light on our crimes there.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-historian-whose-book-on-helmand-was-blocked-by-the-mod-is-finally-cleared-to-publish-9249305.html

    (Previous useful accounts include “Investment in Blood; The True Cost of Britain’s Afghan War” by former advisor Frank Ledwidge and “Cables from Kabul; The Inside Story of the West’s Afghanistan Campaign” by former ambassador Sherard Cowper-Coles).

  6. Resident Dissident

    9 Apr, 2014 - 9:12 pm

    The number of people still prepared to defend the Iraq War in public is tiny – yet 27% in the UK and 40% in the US still believe it was justified.

    http://research.yougov.co.uk/news/iraq/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1633/iraq.aspx

    And I saw another poll elsewhere identifying Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair as out two most popular ex Prime Ministers – although I daresay they both feature pretty highly on the unpopular lists as well.

  7. I am glad you said this Craig. I posted your earlier piece about Willams on the previous thread.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/another-vicious-ugly-souled-feminist/

    The Medialens contributors have wiped the floor with her too. She in inane but dangerous.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1396981230.html

    and

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1396980508.html

  8. Resident Dissident

    9 Apr, 2014 - 9:16 pm

    On Tony Blair overeeing the greatest widening of the gap between rich and poor in British history – this is just not supported by the statistics

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03870.pdf

  9. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 9:16 pm

    10 years after, 64% of Republicans still think Iraq and had WMD’s

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/iraq-wmd-poll-clueless-vast-majority-republicans_n_1616012.html

  10. PS Mod The previous thread (Andy Myles) seems to have picked up the same title as this one. ???

  11. Sorry to disappoint but I am very much of the opinion that the Iraq war was unjustified, I want to see Blair marched off to the ICC to face war crimes but also believe Assange should return to Sweden to face questions about alleged rape and face trial if that’s the way it goes. Both can plead not guilty and mount a defence in open court, just like anybody else.

    In all honesty, that’s how most people I know seem to see things so I don’t recognise the correlation you suggest. I’d also suggest that if you’re reduced to blaming all ills on ‘feminist political correctness’ in the 21st century, purely on the basis of one feminist woman defending Blair, then maybe you’ve got some issues to deal with.

    Williams’ article is nonsense and nowhere does she present a feminist argument in support of any of the points she makes. To conflate feminism with support for the Iraq war/blowing up children is therefore somewhat crass.

  12. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 9:39 pm

    Blair has done to labour what Bill Clinton and Obomber has done to Democrats.

    The Team of Rivals have coalesced or morphed into one group virtually indistinguishable with a few new window dressings.

  13. Andy

    You don’t disappoint – people are supposed to discuss, and they can’t do that very usefully if they don’t have differing views

  14. Perhaps those who think the Iraq war was justified (above @ 9.12pm) contributed to this poll which John Pilger referred to in his piece dated 7 February 2014 from which this is an extract.

    ‘On Harvey’s Today programme I referred to a poll conducted by ComRes last year that asked people in Britain how many Iraqis had been killed as a result of the 2003 invasion. A majority said that fewer than 10,000 had been killed: a figure so shockingly low it was a profanity.

    I compared this with scientific estimates of “up to a million men, women and children [who] had died in the inferno lit by Britain and the US”. In fact, academic estimates range from less than half a million to more than a million. John Tirman, the principal research scientist at the MIT Centre for International Studies, has examined all the credible estimates; he told me that an average figure “suggests roughly 700,000″. Tirman pointed out that this excluded deaths among the millions of displaced Iraqis, up to 20% of the population.’

    /..
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/07/west-criminal-bloodbath-iraq-media-cover-up

  15. I think people believe what they do about Iraq because of a perception about terrorism created in the US/UK/corporatist media during 2002 and relentlessly maintained to present day. Why? I think in the UK this has become all about saving Tony Blair’s neck, but it probably started with Tony’s visit to the ranch in Texas.

  16. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    Brilliant click bait.

  17. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:05 pm

    Of course Zoe Williams is a woman and therefore her tarnished view deserves to be tarnished with the tarnished word ‘feminist’ (spit) – despite the fact that the piece contains not a single mention of those pesky women, or of feminism.

  18. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:22 pm

    Tech; I think Craig’s point is that feminist issues have a friendly ally..(same in US with Obomber) and gratitude for incremental advances in social evolution is what drives their support.

    It’s thin gruel but they wish to keep the pot on the fire.

  19. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:26 pm

    If that is indeed Craig’s point then he should make it. However, since I believe I saw you quoting RAWA earlier you will know that this is in any case a lame and midstream reading of the real facts.

  20. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:26 pm

    It would be unfair to say he is pandering to a sector of the electorate, but what genuine convictions has he shown?

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/01/28/3219231/obama-feminist-mad-men/

  21. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:29 pm

    Tech; I think you are misreading it as Paternalism, but whatevs.

  22. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:30 pm

    Surely you are not actively trying to divert attention from the original post.

  23. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:31 pm

    What you think I am ‘reading it as’ is irrelevant. It is what it is and the fact is that Zoe Williams is – good grief – being used to berate and deride ‘feminism’ (spit) because she is a woman.

  24. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:32 pm

    As i said, great click bait. Well done, Craig.

  25. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    Why don’t you email Craig? I mean, if that’s the only solution to your pique.

  26. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:35 pm

    But yes, Ben, of course, things get twisted into supporting the status quo – I remember the ‘black’ community being delighted about the election of Obama because they really believed this was someone who would stand up for universal human rights.

  27. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:36 pm

    Oh, or perhaps I should just bitch about him on another blog. But I think enough interaction – I hope the perpipatectic mods delete this one.

  28. A propos the ‘sad’ Nick Cohen, this is what I e-mailed to his sadness on 26 January 2014 (Nick hasn’t replied so far):

    Dear Nick,

    In your July 2004 tribute to Paul Foot, you mention that Foot “burst out laughing when he discovered that the sacked civil servant he was defending admired Margaret Thatcher more than any other politician.”

    I should like to point out that the “The Iron Lady” has never been my favourite politician.

    Cheers,

    Patrick Haseldine
    Emeritus Professor of Lockerbie Studies

    (https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Paul_Foot)

  29. Of course the Iraqi war wasn’t justified. It was horrible, homicidal, obscenely destructive, completely insane and ultimately just disgusting.

    But do we not, somehow, get the leaders we deserve?

    You can, for example, still read either explicit or implicit suggestions that the existence of “weapons of mass destruction” (and I still don’t know exactly how those are defined, but I did note that the Boston bombers were charged with using them, so it seems that they can be small enough to fit in a back-pack) would have justified the war. In other words, had Bliar been telling the truth about those and not lying through his bridgework it would all have been ok. No, it wouldn’t! The possession of weapons is a state’s sovereign right. If possession of weapons of mass destruction were a cause for war, we could have attacked France – it’s closer. Actually, we could have attacked ourselves. People who claim to have been duped by Blair & Co. into supporting the war by the false W.M.D. claim – including many in Parliament who really should have known better – are merely trying to obfuscate their own wilful credulity.

  30. Overnight (7th April) hundreds of comments on the Williams piece were removed.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/andy-myles/comment-page-6/#comment-451288

    The number now is 2328 which is probably a fraction of those submitted.

  31. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:46 pm

    The fact is that Zoe Williams’ piece does not contain a single mention of women or feminism. Why does the title of this blog post not read ‘The Defence of Blowing Out the Brains of Small Children’?

  32. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 10:48 pm

    Because the piece didn’t actually defend it, is that why?

  33. I think it’s pretty unfair to blame all feminists for some of them backing the Iraq war.

  34. Though it’s true there are several feminist columnists in the Guardian and Independent (Burchill etc) who are pro- Iraq war and pretty much just hate all men and to that extent i agree with you.

  35. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 11:13 pm

    Gosh, that’s nice of you Duncan – I’m an equalitist myself but I try not to blame all Christians for the Iraq war either.

  36. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 11:15 pm

    oh, brilliant, we’re basing our views on female emancipation (they didn’t have the fecking vote here! and were unable to own fecking property fere! and they can be legally raped in Afghanistan) on Julie fecking Burchill?

  37. technicolour

    9 Apr, 2014 - 11:51 pm

    What on earth has any of that to do with Zoe Williams’ piece?

  38. BrianFujisan

    9 Apr, 2014 - 11:59 pm

    The US and Britain’s Paedophile Colony

    by Felicity Arbuthnot

    On February 25th, Iraq’s Cabinet approved a draft law lowering the age of legal marriage for females to nine years old.

    Iraq was, prior to the invasion, a fiercely secular country, with a broadly equal male, female workforce and with women benefiting from a National Personal Status Law, introduced in 1959, which remained “one of the most liberal in the Arab world, with respect to women’s rights.”

    The legal age for marriage was set at eighteen, forced marriages were banned and polygamy restricted. Cohesion between communities was enhanced and fostered by “eliminating the differential treatment of Sunnis and Shiites under the law (and erasing differentiation) between the various religious communities …” Women’s rights in divorce, child custody and inheritance were an integral part of the Law, with Article 14 stating that all Iraqis are equal under the law.

    Equality was swept away from the first day of the invasion when George W. Bush and his Administration started to talk of Sunni, Shiite, Kurds, Christians and other religions and ethnicities and also effectively selecting the overseers of the “New Iraq” not by ability but by religion and ethnicity, effectively pitching Iraqi against Iraqi in what, for all the complexities, had been a very cohesive society. “Divide and rule” pervaded all.

    So far, however, the Personal Status Law still stands, if largely ignored by the US backed Parliament and a largely – with honourable and courageous exceptions – woefully wanting judiciary. The draft law, if ratified, as it is aimed to be after the April elections, would sweep its admirable provisions aside and turn Iraq in to a paedophiles’ paradise.

    This outrageous plan was first mooted as early as December 2003, just eight months after the invasion, by Abdel Aziz al Hakim, who heads the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. He cancelled the Personal Status Law when President of the Interim Governing Council. Due to opposition by women and others within the Council and from many civil and women’s organizations, the decision was revoked by Paul Bremer, arguably the only thing he got right during his woeful, ill informed tenure.

    More from Felicity Arbuthnot’s Piece @

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/03/the-us-and-britains-paedophile-colony/

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:12 am

    “On February 25th, Iraq’s Cabinet approved a draft law lowering the age of legal marriage for females to nine years old.”
    _________________

    A draft law, Fujisan, a draft law. Which means that it is not yet law. And may in fact never become law.

    So I advise you to hold on for a while before choking with righteous wrath.

  40. And whilst we’re on about Blood thirsty psychopath Bliar… Another great Piece By – Again Felicity A…. which includes a mention Of Craig – in Nicholas Wood’s Letter Below

    ” One man is incandescent about the appointment of Peter Welby and has written to his father in no uncertain terms”.

    Nicholas Wood is author of “War Crime or Just War? The Case Against Blair”, a meticulous legal compilation of just that. Wood, is also Secretary of the Blair War Crimes Foundation. He writes:

    The Archbishop of Canterbury.

    Canterbury Cathedral.

    Dear Sir,

    I enclose my book on Blair, and also a letter to the Prime Minister on his criminality. Though quite why I bother to pay the postage I don’t know.

    I cannot comprehend that you are someone who is supposed to think every day of moral values but not realise that Blair is a very dangerous psychopath, who, as well as causing untold devastation and misery in Iraq, wishes to extend that violence into Syria and Iran to protect Israel.

    If you read page 570 of his autobiography you might possibly see what I mean.”

    Referring to Blair’s advisory position to various heads of State, including Uzbekistan, of which former Ambassador Craig Murray blew the whistle on mind numbing torture, he states: “ Your son will be benefiting, indirectly of coursei from money obtained from despots who boil their victims. This, under the guise of piety.

    I was brought up as a child, a long time ago, to think of Thomas A Becket as a Saint, who resisted the power of a military state, and paid the price with his life. I cannot see you doing that.

    I also was brought up to worship the medieval beauty of Canterbury, it’s stones and it’s stained glass. If stones could weep they would be weeping now.

    Yours faithfully,

    Nicholas Wood, MA

    The full Piece… AGAIN BY Felicity A. @

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/if-stones-could-weep-syria-blairs-plans-and-an-archbishops-son/5377266

  41. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:36 am

    Enticing as the thought of Blair being hauled before an international criminal court might be, it’s not going to happen – ever.

    So I do wish full and candidate members of the Egregiousness of Excellences would stop getting their rocks off with all this cutting and pasting of letters, petitions, manifestos, “thoughts”, etc etc on this notion. It’s pure phantasy and wishful thinking, which probably makes the posters feel better about themselves and life in general but which is boring in the extreme for the rest of us.

    ***************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  42. Sorry, I posted the above on the previous thread, then thought I’d made a mistake cos the thread was called … well, the same title as this one … so I posted it on this one instead, only to find out that I was right first time …. and then my head exploded ….

    MOD … you’d better check out the Andy Myles thread, title plus Craig’s post.

    [Fixed, hopefully. Post another comment if anything still seems wrong now. Duplicate comment deleted.]

  43. A Node, I had that problem too. In fact I commented on it. So it must be a general fault rather than computer specific.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/andy-myles/comment-page-7/#comment-451808

    Off to bed now.

  44. Gloria Steinem discussing (a little bit of) her time “alongside” the freedom-lovers of Langley

    http://youtu.be/4HRUEqyZ7p8

  45. Faux-Feminist’s Ridiculous “Women Under Siege” Syria Map
    CIA Asset Gloria Steinem’s “Women Under Siege” Joins Syrian Propaganda Campaign.
    by Tony Cartalucci

    April 14, 2012 – Ironically, faux-feminist Gloria Steinem’s “Women Under Siege’s” latest campaign to demonize the Syrian government in tandem with the US State Department and its vast stable of media and intelligence assets, stands to set the stage for extremist ideologues to overrun Syria, ending its secular society and entirely stripping away the “women’s rights” Steinem claims to have spent a lifetime fighting for.

    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/faux-feminists-ridiculous-women-under.html

  46. It’s a strange place that band wagon in which the crazed ride.

    “Ban bossy” to re-instate the female gender or to alter perception on a way we perceive girls. Yet the entire media establishment use the term ” child pornography”
    Wrong, it should never be called such and always be called what it is.
    Abuse, exploitation, indecency!

    We are not devising correct tactics to combat wrong doin amongst the astranged masses.
    Our use of terms for wrongs is paramount.

    The “Iraq war” – really….

  47. Enticing as the thought of Blair being hauled before an international criminal court might be, it’s not going to happen – ever. …. Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella) ! 10 Apr, 2014 – 12:36 am

    Such might be something Mr Blair might consider highly desirable when an increasingly likely alternative mirrors the fate of Jürgen Frick, 48, the chief executive of the Liechtenstein private bank Bank Frick [Bank chief Jürgen Frick shot dead by ‘Robin Hood of Liechtenstein’] because of the following consideration, which has been aired and shared recently in a number of places elsewhere.

    Mon, 04/07/2014 – 15:09 amanfromMars setting the record straight on http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/ceo-liechtenstein-bank-frick-murdered

    Up until now it was mostly banker suicides. With the first open bank CEO murder, one wonders if there will be a change in the pattern.

    As people get smarter and information more specific and revealing, are pattern changes inevitable and more focussed on problem source corrections than problem result accommodations.

    And banking is not the only field to expect unprecedented novel action and radical proaction dealing with individuals rather than tilting at metaphorical windmills in attacking corporations and collective bodies, which are just as smoke and mirror shields behind which languish persons of interest feted and destined to become targets of revenge and rough common law justice, madness and despair …….. http://www.ur2die4.com/140328/

    And it is only natural to expect such to be the normal course of future events if change in dodgy inequitable systems is not to be embraced and led from the front by those hiding in the shadows and directing operations from the back.

  48. I read Felicity Arbuthnot’s pieces too Brian. The newest deals with the son of our Jewish! Archbishop of Canterbury (YCNMIU) joining BLiar’s Faith Foundation and these ridiculous articles posted on the website.

    http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/blogpost/syria%E2%80%99s-fragmented-extremists

    http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/blogpost/good-government-issue

    Felicity has a long and deep knowledge of Iraq and the people whom she loves. You see that she is heartbroken at what has been done to the country and to the people if you read her essays.

    PS I see that BLiar has enrolled Martin Bright of the JC to write on the FF blog.
    http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/blog/user/13537

    All FF bloggers are tainted by association with the arch war criminal.

  49. As I see it Zoe Williams is an establishment spokesperson commissioned to try and give Blair’s name a sanitised image after earlier revelations this week that the war criminal knew about the torture and rendition.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10747166/Tony-Blair-knew-all-about-CIA-secret-kidnap-programme.html

    Even if some of what she says is true Mark Antony’s oration over the body of Caesar comes to mind. “The evil that men do lives after them . . .”

    Zoe Williams, if she really believes the tosh she writes, is as bad as Blair himself – who is still proud of what he did in Iraq and would do it again. Neither have any shame. I pointed out yesterday, or the day before, that Nick Clegg’s initiative about providing school meals in the first three years of a child’s life was a good thing. You cannot be in office for years on end without having achieved anything. But Blair’s record as a war-criminal casts a huge black shadow over anything positive he may have done.

    The other big error in her article is a comparison between Blair’s government and the coalition. She cannot even see that these are different faces of the same coin.

  50. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 9:14 am

    AmanfromMars writes

    “Enticing as the thought of Blair being hauled before an international criminal court might be, it’s not going to happen – ever. …. Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella) ! 10 Apr, 2014 – 12:36 am

    Such might be something Mr Blair might consider highly desirable when an increasingly likely alternative mirrors the fate of Jürgen Frick, 48, the chief executive of the Liechtenstein private bank Bank Frick [Bank chief Jürgen Frick shot dead by ‘Robin Hood of Liechtenstein’]”
    _________________

    Sounds a little like a hope…and even an incitement? Be careful.

  51. AManfromMars I do not see a narcissistic psychopath like Blair ever committing suicide. He possesses no guilty conscience.

    Many bankers though are committing suicide as Max Keiser was saying in a conversation with Stacy Herbert on RT.

    ‘Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the poor players that are the empires that strut and fret their weapons upon the world stage. The consequences of the tall tales told by neocon idiots full of sound and fury is that the young refuse to rise up and, instead, meekly visit the food bank. In the second half, Max interviews artist, Alex Schaefer, about ‘burning banks’ and the Global Insurrection Against Banker Occupation. Max watches as Alex ‘burns down’ HSBC on set while describing the current absence of artist activism.
    http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-586-max-keiser-385/

  52. I have a tiny bit of sympathy with the view that Blair (and his ministerial team, riven though it was by Brown/Blair dysfunctionalities) did some good things. The same goes for Mrs Thatcher. However, in Blair’s case it is striking how even the good policies were flawed. For instance, the manifesto commitment to Freedom of Information was implemented slowly, the scope was reduced, the resources to support it limited .. and the fact that even this emasculated legislation helped to hold the government to account led Blair to disown his own legislation as a mistake.

  53. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 9:18 am

    From Mary

    “I read Felicity Arbuthnot’s pieces too Brian. The newest deals with the son of our Jewish! Archbishop of Canterbury (YCNMIU…”
    ______________

    Does Justin Welby have some Jewish blood from the (more or less) distant past?

    The Nazis used to go back to a person’s grandparents to rule whether someone would be considered Jewish.

    How far back would Mary go?

    Very sinister.

  54. I have some sympathy with Hababkuk’s point that banging on about Blair is boring, but I’m going to do it anyway.

    Resident Dissident said last night that Thatcher and Blair were our two most popular ex-Prime Ministers. This is because they were both conviction politicians.

    Peacewisher is quite wrong in thinking Blair went wrong on a Texan ranch. Long before that he was on a mission to destroy the Islamic world’s political power. If you don’t believe me read Seldon’s biography or Rawnsley on the first Labour government.

    And in my view Zoe Williams has a point at least in that it is foolish to underestimate the political skills of Blair. I actually applaud what he did in Northern Ireland and Koxovo, and especially in NI I can’t think of any other contemporary politician who could have achieved what he did.

    Blair should not be underestimated especially as he seems to be trying harder than ever to make a comeback.

    Finally I think Craig has a point about feminism as ably demonstrated above by BrianFujisan. Increasingly in fundamentalist Islamic areas women are being routinely crucified, having their health ruined for life by early childbirth all because stupid men want to know their wives are virgins. To ignore the destruction of what seems to have been a sophisticated and in many ways enlightened civilisation in Iraq, despite Saddam,is puzzling for a feminist.

  55. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 9:22 am

    Compare and contrast…and then wonder

    AmanfromMars : “[Bank chief Jürgen Frick shot dead by ‘Robin Hood of Liechtenstein’]”

    Mary : “I do not see a narcissistic psychopath like Blair ever committing suicide.”

    ????????

  56. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 9:29 am

    Conjunction

    I have no problem with people examining what might have made Blair tick and similar activities. After all, we still welcome new biographies of other, long-dead British political personalities as new evidence or new takes come to light or are advanced.

    What is extremely boring is this constant phantasizing about international criminal courts, citizen’s arrests and so on. It’s boring because it’s grounded not in reality (actual or foreseeeable) but simply represents the expression of inner rage. I suppose I don’t see this blog as a pyschologist’s couch.

  57. ‘I suppose I don’t see this blog as a pyschologist’s couch.’

    V funny remark in view of its provenance.

    PS Sp. psychologist not pissologist.@)

  58. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-13/another-trader-commits-suicide

    Staggering statistics for this year alone.

    This latest death brings the recent banker death tally to 10:

    1 – William Broeksmit, 58-year-old former senior executive at Deutsche Bank AG, was found dead in his home after an apparent suicide in South Kensington in central London, on January 26th.

    2 – Karl Slym, 51 year old Tata Motors managing director Karl Slym, was found dead on the fourth floor of the Shangri-La hotel in Bangkok on January 27th.

    3 – Gabriel Magee, a 39-year-old JP Morgan employee, died after falling from the roof of the JP Morgan European headquarters in London on January 27th.

    4 – Mike Dueker, 50-year-old chief economist of a US investment bank was found dead close to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State.

    5 – Richard Talley, the 57 year old founder of American Title Services in Centennial, Colorado, was found dead earlier this month after apparently shooting himself with a nail gun.

    6 – Tim Dickenson, a U.K.-based communications director at Swiss Re AG, also died last month, however the circumstances surrounding his death are still unknown.

    7 – Ryan Henry Crane, a 37 year old executive at JP Morgan died in an alleged suicide just a few weeks ago. No details have been released about his death aside from this small obituary announcement at the Stamford Daily Voice.

    8 – Li Junjie, 33-year-old banker in Hong Kong jumped from the JP Morgan HQ in Hong Kong this week.

    9 – James Stuart Jr, Former National Bank of Commerce CEO, found dead in Scottsdale, Ariz., the morning of Feb. 19. A family spokesman did not say what caused the death

    10 – Edmund (Eddie) Reilly, 47, a trader at Midtown’s Vertical Group, committed suicide by jumping in front of LIRR train

  59. Ba'al Zevul (THank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 9:57 am

    I think Craig is complaining about what Williams didn’t say – she skated elegantly round Iraq – rather than what she did. There’s an awful lot of space to play in the field of what people don’t say, and IMO if they’re not too important, like Williams, it’s probably a waste of time going there.

    Most of the usual points re. Blair were made in three uncontested letters to the editor in the same (print) issue. (CiF is generally a nonsense, and censored by any intern not currently making coffee for the subs – also under continuous pressure from CiF Watch – a hasbara outfit.)

    Williams eulogised Blair’s reforms without managing to mention PFI – which is actually worse than privatisation, because the taxpayer continues to pay for the service, plus thirty years’ interest, or his and Brown’s massive borrowing against the assumption that the derivatives bubble, of which Blair was sublimely unaware, would continue to grow indefinitely…or selling the gold reserve at a discount…or….or… So much was unsaid.

    Me, I think they put Williams’ thoughts in because Blair had been pontificating in the paper the previous day, and they needed a positive thinkpiece by someone whose strong stomach reduced the risk of an in-desk vomiting event. As has been noted above, hardline feminists are quite capable of toeing the Tony line, possibly because for some unfathomable reason they want his babies.

    IOW, pffft.

  60. Ba'al Zevul (THank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 10:05 am

    And Nick Cohen is an evil POS. IMO.

  61. To continue my point on out use of language and the decisions that are foundered, i turn on the radio 5 and their is a reference to Ben Dover the adult film actor.
    7.20 on mainstream media.
    There are forces of manipulation that encourage war mentality.

  62. It says a lot about a person’s humanity, nevermind moral compass, that they think killing & mass misery can be thought of as a political consideration that bears any sort of political comparison; the life of one single person is not worth knocking x pence of income tax or raising the minimum wage by x pounds; if they really think that human life is not so precious, especially for an self-righteous “Greater Cause”, then why don’t they validate their conviction by placing themselves in real danger for a real worthwhile cause, instead of white-washing the murder of others; if Zoe Williams, even now, adopted an Iraqi orphan & brought that child up as her own child, she would still be an obscene apologist for mass murder, albeit a slightly less sickening hypocritical one.

    Even if Blair really did bring peace to NI & saved lives in Sierra Leone, a once modern country, the size of France, has been destroyed & turned a literal Hell on Earth at the expense of countless lives:

    “The modern, educated, advanced nation of Iraq was reduced to a quasi failed state … the Americans, beginning in 1991, bombed for 12 years, with one dubious excuse or another; then invaded, then occupied, overthrew the government, tortured without inhibition, killed wantonly … the people of that unhappy land lost everything – their homes, their schools, their electricity, their clean water, their environment, their neighborhoods, their mosques, their archaeology, their jobs, their careers, their professionals, their state-run enterprises, their physical health, their mental health, their health care, their welfare state, their women’s rights, their religious tolerance, their safety, their security, their children, their parents, their past, their present, their future, their lives … More than half the population either dead, wounded, traumatized, in prison, internally displaced, or in foreign exile … The air, soil, water, blood, and genes drenched with depleted uranium … the most awful birth defects … unexploded cluster bombs lying in wait for children to pick them up … a river of blood running alongside the Euphrates and Tigris … through a country that may never be put back together again. … “It is a common refrain among war-weary Iraqis that things were better before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003,” reported the Washington Post. (May 5, 2007)“

    http://williamblum.org/aer/read/127

  63. Hababbkuk, I am a bit more paranoid than you. I think they wheeled in Zoe Williams – perhaps she even had a little chat with Tony first – to rally the troops for Tony’s next campaign. She actually writes well and the points she makes are eloquently put.

    Another thing she doesn’t mention of course is that when Blair started rabbiting on in cabinet about Iraq the entire cabinet including Straw thought he was off his rocker, just like the Tory cabinet did when Thatcher started saying ‘We’ve got to destroy the Unions’ in about 1980.

    However both cabinets, seeing the chance of getting their parties in for a stretch behind a strong leader had a couple of pints and chucked their principles out of the window for the duration.

    These lickspittles are mostly the ones now who are going ‘Ah, yes Iraq, tut tut’, and dissing their leader to anyone who’ll listen.

    At least Straw is still standing up for the things he never believed in in the first place.

  64. Sorry the above should be addressed to Ba’al, not Hababbkuk!

  65. Equality has come a long way since Pankhurst….
    Bravo Craig, this nail was asking to be hit on the head for some time. Women can be as ruthless as men, as to why, how and for what reasons is open to debate.
    I also support RAWA because they did their utmost when it was dearly needed, sensible tasks in Afghanistans health and social care, under threat of death, don’t think they would take Blairs side.

    I heard a 1960′s photographer/reporter speak on TV whilst writing something, she was a 1960′s celeb photographer and journo, I beleieve working for the Observer, she was speaking on taking Blairs portrait during the early seventies, she summed it up as ‘the moment he entered the room I felt uncomfortable and the photo I took was not natural, I could not find his natural side, it was impossible to draw out, he was weird’
    sadly can’t remember her name, something Molly or Polly, not sure, but the way she said it made it obvious that she did not like him on sight.

  66. Ba'al Zevul (THank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 10:36 am

    Conjunction -
    I think your paranoia may be justified; that would make sense. Your confusion of Me with the other entity is well out of order, though. :-(

  67. Conjunction. “This is because they were both conviction politicians.”

    In my book they should both be convicted politicians.

  68. “I suppose I don’t see this blog as a pyschologist’s couch.”

    No, you don’t, its more like an annonymous hole in the wall in some dinghy peepshow for you, somewhere to get off all over people.

    Your insunuations, always running in the background, are rude and facetious, your non participation is legend and sadly, so limiting to your very own self.

  69. Ba'al Zevul (THank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 10:40 am

  70. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    10 Apr, 2014 – 12:36 am

    “It’s pure phantasy…”

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    10 Apr, 2014 – 9:29 am

    “…constant phantasizing…”

    verb
    “…variant spelling of fantasize (restricted to archaic uses or, in modern use, to the fields of psychology and psychiatry).”

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/phantasize

    Very strange!

  71. Ba'al Zevul (THank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 11:18 am

    Four letters re. the Williams piece in today’s print Guardian. One weakly supportive of Williams, the others point out the holes in her account; all critical of Blair.

    Tony Blair = Toxic Brand

  72. conjunction 10 Apr, 2014 – 10:21 am

    “Hababbkuk, I am a bit more paranoid than you. I think they wheeled in Zoe Williams – perhaps she even had a little chat with Tony first – to rally the troops for Tony’s next campaign. She actually writes well and the points she makes are eloquently put.”

    If you’re right, maybe this recent hagiography by Bob Geldof, also in the Guardian, is less than coincidence:
    http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/mar/02/bob-geldof-africa-tony-blair

  73. Nevermind. It was Jane Bown. She was brilliant.

    Jane Bown: ‘There was nothing there with Blair’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=546OT_ViFdo

    What a marvellous photograph of Bertrand Russell in profile she produced and isn’t she unassuming.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_photographers#United_Kingdom

  74. Mary, Jane Bown’s assessment of Tony Blair is a classic put-down. She reminds me of the Conservative lady who described him as “smarmy” before his first term of office. I wish I had listened to her. Instead I wasted my vote in helping to elect the evil warmonger. It was the last time. Blair killed my association with the Labour Party. Blair’s father was a Tory. He inherited the gene.

  75. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:18 pm

    LOL @ A Node’s Geldof contribution. Certainly shows how slebs can get it disastrously wrong. For all the fine words, Gleneagles achieved precisely zero – a generally and rightly forgotten event. Though it helped set up Blair’s diary and contacts list for his lucrative private operation.

    A bit from my link above:

    Blair represented the desertion by Labour of the social democratic gains of the post-war period. New Labour placed far greater emphasis on the vacuous New than on the Labour. He wasn’t just a warmonger abroad but someone who pushed through private finance initiatives and deregulation at home, who allowed inequality to prosper, and who displaced blame for social ills onto the victims.

    The state became not a support and provider for people from cradle to grave, but increasingly a facilitator of greater enrichment for private business, bankers and speculators. And it became increasingly coercive too, both at home and abroad. There was growth in state-sanctioned Islamophobia, the erosion of civil liberties, and an increase in the surveillance state; subservience to the White House in the ‘war on terror’ meant participation in rendition and complicity in torture.

    Re. which, compare and contrast:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4627360.stm
    and
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17682879
    also
    http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/07/15/uk-sought-rendition-of-british-nationals-to-guantanamo-tony-blair-directly-involved/

    with:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/10747166/Tony-Blair-knew-all-about-CIA-secret-kidnap-programme.html

  76. Habbabkuk; “A draft law, Fujisan, a draft law. Which means that it is not yet law. And may in fact never become law”

    Actually according to the Telegraph, it “looks likely to pass”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10753645/Iraq-ready-to-legalise-childhood-marriage.html

    Re topic of thread, this comment seems to appropiate;

    “This should be OK as well:

    Mr. Jonesxxx is a paedophile and he rapes children in Malaysia and kill them in the process, after torturing them of course. But here at home (UK) he is is an exemplary citizen, pays taxes, gives money to charity organizations, and work hard for his country. Anyway, Malaysia is very far away, and who cares?

    What about that?

    PS: please, don’t tell me that th example doesn’t apply. If you do that I would ask for you to tell the families of all the civilian killed during the invasion and afterwards, all the tortured and imprisoned people, that Tony Blair and his master (Bush) were very good politicians because they cared for the people of their country”

  77. Ba’al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow’s Friday) 10 Apr, 2014 – 12:18 pm

    “LOL @ A Node’s Geldof contribution. Certainly shows how slebs can get it disastrously wrong.”

    Oh, I don’t know, I think Geldof achieved exactly what he intended ….

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:40 pm

    Mary

    Rather than focussing on my inadvertent mispelling of ‘psychologist’, you would do better to tell us why you consider the idea that someone in public life might have had a Jewish ancestor so important. And why you consider it important enough to bring it to our attention.

    This is Craig’s blog and not Stormfront or one of those other more than dubious websites.

  79. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:43 pm

    I also wonder why the other Eminences – usually so vocal when a poster remarks on a public figure’s ethnic or religious background – remain so silent when Mary’s off on one of her find-the-Jewish-ancestor hunts.

    Is it the silence of agreement or the silence of embarrassment?

    *************

    Buy US dollars, sterling and shekels!

  80. How anyone can justify on any basis the Iraq War – what Dr. David Kelly was murdered for trying to prevent, and Blair covered up by getting stooge Brian Hutton to do all the necessary dirty work – is beyond me.

    Saddam’s ouster was thrown in by Washington’s neocons after the attempt to stop the 19 hijackers turned into a massive cock-up which murdered 3,000 innocent Americans, but Blair still supported is just state terrorism carried to extreme lengths.

    Without it, the Middle East would have been more manageable problems, but with it, the area is just a massive mess.

  81. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:48 pm

    Conjunction

    “Sorry the above should be addressed to Ba’al, not Hababbkuk!”
    ______________

    No problem, Conjunction! I’ll be positive (sorry, Excellences, I know it’s like farting at a reception) and assume that you don’t consider me to be paranoid :)

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 12:51 pm

    Nevermind

    “Women can be as ruthless as men, as to why, how and for what reasons is open to debate.”
    _______________

    Probably, Nevermind, because they’re human? You shouldn’t put any category or group on a pedestal, you know!

  83. Habbabkuk is not much good at working things out, is he?

    Nevermind. There are female psychopaths too. At a lower percentage of the population than the male.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

  84. “Women’s rights” has been used extensively as justification for NATO/Western attacks in Afghanistan. I haven’t found any articles by Zoe Williams specifically about that, but here she is praising UK military education for people, mostly male (the article refers to “boys”), as young as sixteen:

    http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/feb/21/why-army-education-is-hard-not-to-admire

    The article also links to a timeline, “British forces’ century of unbroken warfare”, something that Habbabkuk recently claimed was false:

    http://interactive.guim.co.uk/embed/2014/feb/100-years-of-war/index.html

    (Javascript required for above link.)

  85. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 1:10 pm

    Just a reminder that the 7/7 London bombings occurred during the G8, from which Blair was flown by Chinook to RAF Leuchars the next day* for a plane home. And the bombings may well have been a direct response to Blair’s enthusiastic participation in Afghanistan and Iraq. Reminder:

    On 6 July 2006, a videotaped statement by Shehzad Tanweer was broadcast by Al-Jazeera. In the video, which may have been edited[12] to include remarks by al-Zawahiri who appeared in Khan’s video, Tanweer said:
    “ What have you witnessed now is only the beginning of a string of attacks that will continue and become stronger until you pull your forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq. And until you stop your financial and military support to America and Israel.”

    *He announced he was leaving Gleneagles just an hour after he had advised the public not to make unnecessary journeys…

  86. Jane Bown, on photographing Blair:

    ‘There was nothing to capture’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=546OT_ViFdo

    That’s quite significant coming from an artist, and particularly of portraiture.

    I’d have much preferred she developed that theme than listen to 6 Pilgers patronising tone.

  87. “On February 25th, Iraq’s Cabinet approved a draft law lowering the age of legal marriage for females to nine years old.”

    Iran of course already has such a law

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9500484/Alarm-as-hundreds-of-children-under-age-of-10-married-in-Iran.html

    We forget that such things are driven by religion and that child brides still existed within Christianity until recently. As an agnostic living in a largely secular democracy, I find the whole thing abhorrent – but then I would.

  88. Mary

    Could we have a full biography of your father so that we can all play the game of visiting the sons of the father on the child? You really are incorrigible.

  89. The point about child bride legislation in Iraq is that it did NOT exist in Saddam’s time prior to the Bush Blair onslaught that laid waste the country and wrecked its institutions. The Sunni Shia divide did not exist and there was very little acrimony in a multiple society. You should keep up and I suggest you read Felicity Arbuthnot and William Blum. Keep up why don’t you or are you being deliberately obtuse.

  90. “Buy US dollars, sterling and shekels!”

    it shrieks.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, people are buying Renmimbi.

    You can open a Yuan account at HSBC or Bank of China. Certainly worth considering before the western financial system collapses:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/05/09/why-investors-should-buy-chinese-yuans/

  91. @Goss

    “Blair killed my association with the Labour Party.”

    Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators.

  92. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 1:29 pm

    Could we have a full biography of your father so that we can all play the game of visiting the sons of the father on the child? You really are incorrigible. (@ Mary)

    Personal attack.

    “Blair killed my association with the Labour Party.”

    Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators. (@JG)

    Personal attack.

    Mods?

  93. Habbabkuk, when you visit this blog, do you realise what this site is, why you find so much negativity here, and why you’re often considered disruptive?

    This little blog is part of democracy’s conscience; that is the vital function being performed here. It has developed around the conscientious actions of a single individual, and has attracted many contributors who also feel that there are injustices to report; hence what you deride as “negativity”.

    If you disrupt conscience, you nurture psychopathy.

  94. ESLO, 1:22 pm

    “Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators.”

    As, I believe, was Stalin.

  95. Ba’al Zevul

    You of course missed the personal attacks on Welby and Blair – but that is ok in your book I presume?

  96. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 1:43 pm

    You of course missed the personal attacks on Welby and Blair – but that is ok in your book I presume?

    They post here?

  97. “there was very little acrimony in a multiple society”

    Complete and utter bollocks – why did all those people flee the country, why did Saddam invade his neighbours, why so much torture and killing of political opponents, why the appalling treatment of the Kurds and Marsh Arabs, why the victimisation of trade unionists etc. etc. Please stop rewriting history – you can argue about the rights and wrongs of the war, but to pretend everything was sweetness and light beforehand is a complete fantasy and fabrication.

  98. They post here?

    Why is that of relevance – is insulting people behind their backs somehow better?

  99. “As, I believe, was Stalin.”

    I believe he used rather different means – they would probably fall within MAry’s definition of “very little acrimony in a multiple society”.

  100. Mary; “Keep up why don’t you or are you being deliberately obtuse”

    Mary, some people’s blinkered POVs depend on them being exactly that !

  101. “The Sunni Shia divide did not exist”

    Also completely untrue.

  102. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 2:12 pm

    “The Sunni Shia divide did not exist”

    Also completely untrue.
    Correct for once. On the other hand we have done our best to exploit the division, and in Iraq succeeded beyond comprehension.

  103. “On the other hand we have done our best to exploit the division”

    I would put it more down to ignorance rather than genuine intent.

  104. Iraq, now Syria …. more collateral damage from Western intervention.

    Some Syrian refugees arriving in Jordan are opting to marry off their daughters at a young age believing that marital status offers a form of protection and insurance.

    http://www.irinnews.org/report/95902/jordan-early-marriage-a-coping-mechanism-for-syrian-refugees

  105. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 2:30 pm

    They post here?

    Why is that of relevance – is insulting people behind their backs somehow better?

    You are with President Obiang of Guinea, I take it:
    “What right does the opposition have to criticise the actions of a government?”

    As the people – in the public domain – you are defending almost certainly remain unaware of any insult*,and are far too important to take notice of it it if they did, it’s probably more harmless than incessantly stalking the contributors you don’t like here and being as unpleasant as you can to them for no particular reason – or maybe you have a reason?

    * Do note that criticism, or outright condemnation, especially when backed by checkable facts, are not per se insulting. Also that people whose columns you could read every week in the Spectator, if you were literate**, do a far better crucifixion job on people who are not actually present in their office than anyone here.

    ** Insult.

  106. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 2:36 pm

    I would put it more down to ignorance rather than genuine intent.

    Please support that opinion. As I recall, the UK media were falling over themselves to tell us in 2003 how the Shi’a would welcome us into Iraq – and they did, briefly, because we’d been telling them they would at last be able to express their majority view democratically. And I am absolutely certain that someone in the FCO was aware that the Shi’a traditionally look to Iran for support, and that Israel for the last twenty years has been urging the US to attack Iran. Ignorance? If so, there was no possible justification for intervening in the first place.

    The current civil war in Iraq is largely Shi’a vs. Sunni. Lousy as the previous regime was, they weren’t murdering each other on a industrial scale then. Indeed, they shared neighbourhoods. Not any more.

  107. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 2:44 pm

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-vicious-schism-between-sunni-and-shia-has-been-poisoning-islam-for-1400-years–and-its-getting-worse-9139525.html

    The invasion of Iraq instigated by George Bush and Tony Blair in 2003 was the second big factor in the deterioration of Sunni-Shia relations. Saddam Hussein led a Sunni elite which governed Iraq’s Shia majority with a reign of state terror. The US had backed Saddam in Iraq’s war with Iran throughout the 1980s, in which half a million troops died.

    But after 9/11 the US changed its mind about Saddam, overthrew him and brought democracy to Iraq. The resulting election placed in power leaders from the Shia majority who have excluded the Sunni minority – who have responded with the car bombs which are killing thousands in Baghdad and elsewhere. Al-Qa’ida jihadists have flooded into the country to join Sunni terrorists in attacking the Shia government. And now the polarised sectarian conflict has spilled over into Syria.

    When the Arab Spring reached Syria in 2011 it began as a protest against the corruption, nepotism and human rights abuses of the Assad government. But within two years the armed uprising against the regime was transformed.

    Rebels motivated by political indignation, who received limited backing from Western governments, slowly became outnumbered by rebel groups with extreme Islamist motivation fighting to create what they call the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

    These jihadists have come from across the Islamic world but they are backed by Saudi cash. More recently Shia militants from the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah have arrived to support the Alawite-led army of the Assad regime. Full-blown civil war is the result.

    What all this means is that Sunni and Shia are locked in conflict all across the Shia Crescent. As each side steps up its activities, the other feels more threatened and hardens its response in turn.

    Sunni-Shia tensions are increasing across the world as a result. They are on the rise in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Kuwait, Lebanon, Bahrain, Libya, Tunisia, Malaysia, Egypt, and even in London as issues of identity, rights, interests and enfranchisement find sectarian expression.

    The tensions are deep-rooted in wider economic and geopolitical concerns. But the risk – given the long history of division and tension – is that predictions of a transnational civil war between Sunni and Shia could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Which side will we be supporting? Think we’re going to stop selling arms to Saudi?
    Stop destabilising Iran?

  108. ESLO 10 Apr, 2014 – 2:14 pm

    “On the other hand we have done our best to exploit the division”

    I would put it more down to ignorance rather than genuine intent.

    ……………………………

    “Text of report by Iranian Arabic language television news channel Al-Alam on 15 October

    The British government has officially apologized to Iraq over the recent Basra events.

    A statement issued by the British consulate in Basra has said that London apologizes to the Iraqi people and government, Basra residents, city and province councils and the police force over mistakes made by the British

    This comes after a British [army] unit stormed Basra police station and used force to release two British soldiers arrested by Iraqi police for the charge of seeking to carry out sabotage acts and stirring sedition among the residents of the city.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/britain-apologizes-for-terrorist-act-in-basra/1094

  109. A Node and Ba’al Zevul:

    You may be right, A. Node about Geldof being part of the promote Blair conspiracy I hyposthesized, but whether or not this is true, is it right, Ba’al, to regard the Gleneagles summit as worthless?

    For decades previously I read every week in the papers how debt was crippling what we then called the third world. This term is not used anymore, since around the time of 2005 and I would guess that the cancelling of massive amounts of global debt has made a big difference.

    Craig in his book on Africa and elsewhere has documented the way Blair has exploited African capitalism for the personal gain of himself and his cronies, but to acknowledge that is not the same thing as dismissing the value of Gleneagles and related agreements.

    Furthermore to call Geldof a ‘sleb’ does him a disservice. In the year or two leading up to the first Bandaid concert back whenever that was, Geldof toured Africa interviewing political leaders and astonished certainly me with his cojones.

    We all know aid has limited value in itself but we should be discerning in criticising people like Geldof I think.

  110. ESLO, and not just Iraq and Iran. Saudi Arabia too.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493402.stm

    Here are a couple of petitions you, and others, might care to sign.

    http://www.walkfree.org/show-support-yemen-free-forced-child-marriage/
    http://www.change.org/petitions/stand-firm-against-child-brides

    Your comment in support of Blair, the mass murderer and war-criminal, is distasteful. Anybody with a conscience would disassociate themselves from such a character, a person who has probably murdered, and continues to murder, more children than Beria and Stalin put together, in Afgahnistan, Iraq and Libya. His Judas kiss of Gaddafi said it all.

  111. “a person who has probably murdered, and continues to murder, more children than Beria and Stalin put together, in Afgahnistan, Iraq and Libya.”

    Not even near I’m afraid – not even with your estimates for Blair.

    I’m not a fan of any backward religion – I find it difficult to place them above and below each other as they have all been pretty nasty at different stages in their development.

  112. conjunction 10 Apr, 2014 – 2:49 pm

    “We all know aid has limited value in itself but we should be discerning in criticising people like Geldof I think.”

    I think Geldof knowingly and deliberately created his Live 8 event to relieve pressure on Blair and Bush at the G8 summit. I believe he is a liar and a fraud.

    More of the same from me in a post on previous thread:
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/andy-myles/comment-page-4/#comment-450741

  113. “Not even near I’m afraid – not even with your estimates for Blair.”

    Figures?

  114. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:11 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “verb
    “…variant spelling of fantasize (restricted to archaic uses or, in modern use, to the fields of psychology and psychiatry).”

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/phantasize

    Very strange!”
    __________________

    Why strange? Other links and sources to back up your assertion, please.

  115. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:14 pm

    Nevermind

    ““I suppose I don’t see this blog as a pyschologist’s couch.”

    No, you don’t, its more like an annonymous hole in the wall in some dinghy peepshow for you, somewhere to get off all over people.”
    ___________________

    “dinghy peepshow” – your expression, not mine! :)

  116. These are a few of Blair’s child victims.

    http://www.coia.org.uk/

    It says 300 children die every day. 138,000 children under 5 die a year according to UNICEF. And that’s just Iraq! You might want to associate with a mass-murderer like that. But I have morals.

  117. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:21 pm

    Macky

    “Habbabkuk; “A draft law, Fujisan, a draft law. Which means that it is not yet law. And may in fact never become law”

    Actually according to the Telegraph, it “looks likely to pass”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10753645/Iraq-ready-to-legalise-childhood-marriage.html
    ____________________

    Ah well, if that’s what the Telegraph says, it must be right, eh?

    “Looks” and “likely”.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ““This should be OK as well:

    Mr. Jonesxxx is a paedophile and he rapes children in Malaysia and kill them in the process, after torturing them of course. But here at home (UK) he is is an exemplary citizen, pays taxes, gives money to charity organizations, and work hard for his country. Anyway, Malaysia is very far away, and who cares?

    What about that?”
    ________________

    Not OK at all. The contrary of OK I should have thought. Why do you think I think it’s OK (links, please!), and why do you seem to think it is?

  118. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:26 pm

    ESLO

    ““On February 25th, Iraq’s Cabinet approved a draft law lowering the age of legal marriage for females to nine years old.”

    Iran of course already has such a law”
    __________________

    Thank you for bringing that to my attention, ESLO. As an Eminent Poster on here might say : “I was not aware”.

    But Iran’s OK, I mean, isn’t it? ‘Cos it’s deemed to be anti-Western?

  119. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:26 pm

    Jaafari Law;

    “The law appears to run counter to the UN Convention on Rights of the Child, ratified by Iraq in 1994—which expressly bans the legalization of child marriage—as well as Iraq’s own constitution, although al-Shimmari, himself a Shi’a, has dismissed critics of the bill. “By introducing this draft law, we want to limit or prevent” child marriage outside the legal system, according to al-Shimmari.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/09/iraq-wants-to-legalize-child-marriage.html

    It seems the West’s imposition of their version of democracy has unintended consequences.

    We didn’t intend for them to mimic our form of government in toto.

  120. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:30 pm

    Hurby

    “Meanwhile, in the real world, people are buying Renmimbi.”
    _________________

    Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind. Are you?

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  121. “I think Geldof knowingly and deliberately created his Live 8 event to relieve pressure on Blair and Bush at the G8 summit.”

    Correct.

    Poverty is intrinsic to the western system of exploitation.

    Make poverty history and you make the Washington Consensus history too.

    Geldof channelled the genuine and growing revulsion of people against poverty into something elites could accept.

    Fine words but no change.

  122. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:37 pm

    Ba’al Zevul

    “Could we have a full biography of your father so that we can all play the game of visiting the sons of the father on the child? You really are incorrigible. (@ Mary)

    Personal attack.

    “Blair killed my association with the Labour Party.”

    Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators. (@JG)

    Personal attack.”
    ___________________

    Not at all. The first response is a legitimate rejoinder ( of methodological intent) to a poster who appears to set great store by what sort of ancestors people in the public sphere have; in her case, Jewish ancestors). The second response makes a political point, namely that Blair rid the Labour party of its far-left infiltrators, thereby completing a process started by Clement Atlee.

    If the Mods should suppress something, it should be the constant references to people’s Jewish ancestors.

  123. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:37 pm

    Additionally, the efforts to make sex slaves of their children is a violation of the Rule of Law; a sacrosanct policy created for the other guy and not for personal consumption.

    It’s much better to hide one’s fetishes from behind holy vestments which no one would dare reveal because it would bring reproach on a major institution necessary for society’s well-being.

  124. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:38 pm

    Constant references against which you have never once raised your otherwise over-loud voice, Ba’al Zevul.

  125. John Goss:

    Stalin is generally supposed to have been responsible for around 20 million deaths either through direct executions, ‘reforms’ of agriculture on a massive scale in the thirties which collectivised agriculture, the sending of millions to Siberia. For instance his own heroic soldiers who suffered untold miseries fighting the Germans in the Second World War were in huge numbers rewarded on their return with what was often a one way ticket to Siberia because Stalin was afraid they might have been corrupted on their trip to Europe.

    He even had a considerable number of his own family executed. Shortly before the Second World War he efficiently purged his senior military commanders.

  126. And here are some more figures just in on Iraqi deaths. Where are yours ESLO?

    http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:47 pm

    Clark

    “ESLO, 1:22 pm

    “Yes he was rather good at clearing out the infiltrators.”

    As, I believe, was Stalin.”
    _______________________

    Invalid comparison, displaying little sense of history.

    1/. It is Stalin who should, in fact, be considered as an infiltrator if we are to judge by his systematic rooting out and elimination, in the 1930s, of almost all the old Bolsheviks.

    2/. Various leaders of the Labour party, starting put with Clement Atlee, have declared membership of far-left parties, organisations and groupings incompatible with membership of the Labour Party. Members of those parties, etc, whether declares or (more usually) covert, were the infiltrators.

    Hope you understood that, ‘cos I can’t be arsed to explain further. Cheers!

  128. “Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind.”

    You’ve discussed it. That’s good.

    So they’ve other strategies for when USD collapses.

    Or they’re skint.

    Which is it?

  129. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:52 pm

  130. A. Node:

    I have read your comments, and those of Brian Fujisan on the previous thread. In general I am not an expert on this field, it is not something I have gone out of my way to research.

    But to say as Herbie does above of Geldof: ‘Fine words but no change’ is clearly not true. You might not like the change, but change there has been.

    Yes there has been massive investment in the third world by western agencies and global companies, yes it has often been their agenda which is dominant, but there has been change, and there have been jobs created on a massive scale.

    The levels of poverty in ‘the third world’ bear no comparison, I don’t think, to what they were say forty years ago. Some of this has to be down to western investment and cancellation of debt, even if the investment is skewed.

    I felt unhappy in 2005, I remember feeling that Geldof’s timing was all wrong, but in general I am not sure that his legacy is a negative one, and in your earlier post which you link to, with respect, you do not produce much hard evidence.

    BrianFujisan does make a case against Bono, mostly on the subject of western dictation of terms of investment, but thats Bono not Geldof.

  131. Ba'al Zevul (Thank God Tomorrow's Friday)

    10 Apr, 2014 - 3:58 pm

    Conjunction
    “We all know aid has limited value in itself but we should be discerning in criticising people like Geldof I think.”

    I bow to your reasoned and informed opinion- pretty well confirmed by this:

    http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2013/05/make-poverty-history-and-g8-promises-was-it-all-really-worth-it

    Public pressure certainly needs to coalesce around well-known figures, and I suppose they are necessary. Mean-minded caveat; they don’t actually do the work.

  132. My sleuth-like brain asks a question. Suddenly, unless others know differently, a character called Conjunction appears on the blog. This is the day after I get some release from Habbabkuk using Habbabreak. This Conjunction speaks in the same voice as Habbabkuk, with praise for Resident Dissident and an eagerness to answer comments aimed at ESLO with unsubstantiated figures, much in the way Habbabkuk does. Is Conjunction the latest manifestation of Habbabkuk?

    A simple Yes from regular comment-makers will suffice. Or even No if that’s what you really think.

  133. Not sure why you’re getting at Mary taking an interest in genealogies, habby.

    I seem to remember that elites put great store by such measures.

    Breeding, they called it. Drew up big long family trees, with crests rampant and everything.

    Apart from a brief period during the post war period when it became rather unfashionable, it’s now happily all back in vogue again.

    There’s barely an area of elite life these days where “aristocracy” isn’t thriving.

    They’re all very proud to be special, and indeed owe their position in life to it.

    More elite family trees, please.

  134. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    Bono, and ostensibly Geldof, are like any other politician who gets caught up in the net of populism and finance. Becoming mainstream is the Obama effect.

    You have to go along to get along. When those parameters have already been established, it’s nearly impossible to effect change at all, and so minor victories on the perimeter of change are seen as good, rather than perfect.

    So if you have an intervention on a loved one a little too into his/her cups, just remember it’s ok to enable them to drink less rather than abstain completely.

  135. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:06 pm

    Hurby

    ““Well, personally I haven’t yet met anyone who is, but never mind.”

    You’ve discussed it. That’s good.

    So they’ve other strategies for when USD collapses.

    Or they’re skint.

    Which is it?”
    __________________

    Difference between the verbs “to meet” and “to discuss”, Hurby?

    Anyway : are you putting your money where your mouth is and buying the Chinese currency? Why so coy?

  136. Nick Cohen:
    The leaders of political cults, like their religious counterparts, increase their power by fostering paranoia. Members can trust no one outside the party, especially the police and judiciary. The SWP says that Comrade Delta’s alleged victim was free to go to the police and chose not to, but party dogma insists that justice is impossible in bourgeois courts. Only when it’s too late do women learn that the alternative disciplinary system of Marxist-Leninists exists to control them and let the leaders do as they please. The parallels with the Catholic church are too obvious for me to labour.

    Ditto: political Islam

    Feminist political correctness = sexual politics = all politics = lying. What has also reached my attention recently is that Magic is a form of private/ sexual politics which is practised inside Islam for the same evil purposes as political extremism is practised inside Islam. The worst aspects of Salafist jihadism and offshoots of manipulative Sufism converge into cult bullying and mental/ spiritual breakdown.

    What I find curious is that Craig can see and feel the pain from the black arts of feminism, whose mill western man has been ground down by since the onset of Thatcherism, but he does not see the black arts of Monarch brainwashing that appear to have touched the upbringing of Julian assange, which to me are parts of one and the same thing,viz: sexual politics/ lying/ transfer of power from the individual to New world order bullying .

  137. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:14 pm

    Mr Goss

    “My sleuth-like brain asks a question.”
    _______________

    Not sleuth-like and even less a brain. But I’ll give you Clouseau if you like.

    But no matter, the answer is no. Not that I – or probably Conjunction – could care less what you think. Do get it into your skull that large numbers of people disagree with you and occasionally feel moved to let you know.

    Put it down to coincidence – the same coincidence that, on Craig’s Ukraine/Russia/rasPutin threads, saw the appearance of a large number of handles unseen before and after. Comments on that?

  138. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:15 pm

    Can one man fight effectively within existing systems?

    Cesar Chavez; not perfect but also not a tool.

    http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2014/04/14/140414crat_atlarge_heller

    “Chavez’s own will was mammoth, and his battle against agribusiness lasted weeks, then months, then years. The goal, he said, was to cost growers fifty dollars for each dollar spent on the strike. Ostensibly, field workers were pushing for better wages and treatment. But they also fought for recognition of Chavez’s new field-labor union, now called the United Farm Workers, and the political authority of a marginalized demographic. The strike, which began and was headquartered in Delano, a San Joaquin Valley town that lay at the heart of table-grape production, grew to represent the fate of a new national cause.”

  139. Habbabkuk; “Ah well, if that’s what the Telegraph says, it must be right, eh?”

    It’s odds on even I reckon as to whetever your obtuseness is deliberate or not; you stated with all your non-expertise in Iraqi matters, that the child marriage act “may in fact never become law”, whereas even the pro-war & Blair friendly Telegraph, who presumeably had consulted with people more knowledgeable in this matter than yourself, have concluded this it “looks likely to pass”, a complete polar opposite to your baseless assertion.

    “Why do you think I think it’s OK (links, please!), and why do you seem to think it is?”

    Read my Post again; note that it is two parts; note that the first part was addressed directly to you; note that the second part starts with the words, “Re topic of thread, this comment seems to appropriate”

    As I believe I have previously receommended to you, adult classes in basic English comprehension skills, will save you posting even more superfluous comments than you already do.

  140. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:18 pm

    Mr Goss

    I should have said “most people”, not “large numbers of people”.

    BTW, how’s your “Left Unity” Party getting along? Membership exploding?

  141. Deleting Mods/ Vermicious knids of all kninds, Please note: not a Z in sight. Pretending to be zzzzzing. Wink, wink!?!

  142. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:23 pm

    Macky

    “Habbabkuk; “Ah well, if that’s what the Telegraph says, it must be right, eh?”

    It’s odds on even I reckon as to whetever your obtuseness is deliberate or not; you stated with all your non-expertise in Iraqi matters, that the child marriage act “may in fact never become law”, whereas even the pro-war & Blair friendly Telegraph, who presumeably had consulted with people more knowledgeable in this matter than yourself, have concluded this it “looks likely to pass”, a complete polar opposite to your baseless assertion.”
    ________________________

    Well, let’s wait and see , shall we, Macky.

    But i have a pretty goos track record in these things: no World War 3 starting in Syria, former President Chavez not assassinated by injection of a lethal cancer virus, Malaysian airliner not hijacked to Diego Garcia, AS Victoria Nuland didn’t appoint the new Ukraine govt, etc, etc – the list is long!

  143. Ba’al Zevul

    You’re easily impressed.

    =========================

    Habby

    How would you know what people you meet are doing with their money unless you’d discussed it with them?

    More generally, do you think that USD will collapse, and what impact will that have on GBP and EUR?

    Do these people you meet think that USD will collapse, or do they expect things to just keep on going as they are?

  144. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    ” how’s your “Left Unity” Party getting along? Membership exploding?”

    Even a blind sow finds the occasional truffle.

    It’s true that the Left is a quagmire of qualitative opinion whose power is limited by the very independent thinking that makes sounds of reform a dissonant incoherence. If lefties could meld with conservative ‘me too’ intellect and create alliances out of differences, the political landscape would benefit greatly.

  145. Ben; “Turkey tries to roast a Hersh for Sader”

    Here’s a couple of interesting links in the aftermath of the Hersh article;

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1396964089.html

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/08/296525/

  146. John Goss

    Earlier I suggested that I was paranoid. However I think I got the wrong guy.

    For what its worth, as I said on the earlier occasion you refer to, I have contributed to this blog occasionally for many years, since some time before you ever did.

    However I do beg your pardon for not recognising that this blog was really a private conversation between you and ESLO.

    In the meantime why not do a little light research into comrade Stalin and find out what everyone else knows for yourself?

  147. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:40 pm

    Macky; The fact that NYT and WaPO are silent about the Hersh piece….telling.

  148. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 4:42 pm

    Conjunction; Is this a new ‘nic’? If not, what name was used. Be careful not to reveal any Tells.

    “In the meantime why not do a little light research into comrade Stalin and find out what everyone else knows for yourself?”

    This is a familiar tone.

  149. Conjunction

    Stalin was definitely a baddie, but who funded him.

    Who made it all possible.

    And were they by any chance related to those who cleaned the new world of all those pesky natives.

    Chomsky and others have come up with a figure of around 60,000,000 killed since only WWII, by the West.

  150. “For what its worth, as I said on the earlier occasion you refer to, I have contributed to this blog occasionally for many years, since some time before you ever did.”

    Sorry I missed this. Where did you say “I have contributed to this blog occasionally for many years”? I must have missed something.

  151. Herbie

    The west funded Stalin in his successful efforts to fight the Germans in World War Two. Is that what you mean?

    Do you have a reference for the 60 million figure?

    Ben and John Goss: because I value this blog I will make one more comment on my identity.

    I first started commenting on this blog in 2010 after I read Craig’s books. There are reviews of both his books posted on Amazon under the same nickname which is the one I always use on any blog.

  152. The Specious Defence of Blowing Straw Women Out Of Your Assange
    This womanista defends the bad war and that womanista dislikes my chum. Feminism is a problem. Now carry on.

  153. Thanks for the sleuthing, Mary, she was a remarkable photograp[hers who could take the most exceptional pictures with a box brownie, she always used second hand cameras of the older variety and she loved black and white.

    I put her in the same league as Fritz Land, both of them artists of light and dark.

  154. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:03 pm

    Hurby

    “More generally, do you think that USD will collapse, and what impact will that have on GBP and EUR?”
    ____________

    The answer to your first question being “no, I do not believe the USD will collapse”, a reply to your second question becomes otiose.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    “Do these people you meet think that USD will collapse, or do they expect things to just keep on going as they are?”
    _________________

    As I have not discussed it with them, I do not know what they think.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And now that I’ve amply answered your questions, perhaps you would answer mine, ie, are you yourself putting your money where your mouth is and buying Chinese currency?

    If so, I wish you luck. :)

  155. should mean Fritz Lang

  156. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:07 pm

    “Now carry on”

    Phil; I think, as well, it’s a personal thing…toes stepped upon.

  157. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:08 pm

    Weedsmoker

    ““In the meantime why not do a little light research into comrade Stalin and find out what everyone else knows for yourself?”

    This is a familiar tone.”
    _________________

    And a very pertinent one.

  158. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:12 pm

    Nevermind

    We had the “sleuth-like” Mr Goss and now we read “Thanks for the sleuthing, Mary,..”

    WOW! Clouseau and Clousette!

    Verily I say unto you : ‘Strewth, what a slough of sleuths!

  159. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:14 pm

    Anyway, enough of me. Carry on, chaps. Or, on Buddy Hilly’s words: Rave on!

  160. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:15 pm

    Too quick – Buddy Holly (and even : in)

  161. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:20 pm

    I can confirm that Conjunction has written reviews of Craig’s books on Amazon UK.

    When did John Goss start squatting on Craig’s blog, as a matter of interest? Was it really only after 2010? From his tone, you’d think he’s been on here forever.

  162. Craig might just as easily have used the tags:
    The Islam-ist defence of blowing out the brains…
    The Christian Fundamental-ist..
    Marx-ist.

    -Isms are all self-serving political wolves hiding under the good names/sheep’s clothings of high principled ideas. Feminism is not an exception. Islam is ultimate truth, but ex-Zword Freemason, ex Muslim Brotherhood Ayman Zawahiri of ‘The List’ of Robin Cook fame pronounced that anybody who engages their brain into analysing what political Islam is doing, is automatically a spy and an enemy of Islam.

    Give the followers of his zombie cult guns and others who are in the habit of using their brains guns and put them in Syria where the general population is in the habit of practising the ultimate truth of Islam- what do you get: chaos. Then he wails that hsi followers have mutinied. Thank God. Allahu Akbar!. The possessors of brains have mutinied against the cult that would slit their throats for engaging their brains.

    If there had not been any opposition to the mercenaries of UKUSIS we could definitely say we were doomed. Similarly, we can also take hope that feminism took a virtual kick in the balls by the resignation of Maria Miller. wrongdoing is still being challenged in spite of NWO power.

    The case of Julian Assange is like the case of the Ukraine. Equal participants in feminist political tripe Assange and Swedish feminism cross virtual swords in a virtual legal battle computer game. Equal participants Jewish Russian oligarchs and NWO powers USUKIS cross virtual swords in a virtual legal battle computer game.

    Why is it interesting to consider the rules of a virtual game? Well chess is interesting to those who play it. But are these virtual heroic Beowulfan battles of covert politics and virtual power in the real world? Only to the extent that you believe in them. Does the presence of the black box of MH370 in the most inaccessible part of the Indian Ocean prove that nothing happened to the passengers between take-off and disappearing? Only to the extent that you believe in them.

    We live in an age of deception and the only limit is the boundaries of our imaginations to understand the full scope of the evil that our rulers are capable of doing.

  163. “The west funded Stalin in his successful efforts to fight the Germans in World War Two. Is that what you mean?”

    Nope.

    Stalin and the Bolsheviks were funded from an early stage by western bankers, as of course was Hitler.

    The Tsar was being a bit of a pain over his state banking system, so they decided to help topple him. Some things never change.

  164. Habby

    You say:

    “I do not believe the USD will collapse”

    What makes you think that?

    Is it anything other than mental inertia on your part?

    IOW, you just can’t imagine it happening because you’re conditioned to expect things always to remain the same.

    And, how can you know what people you meet are doing with their money if you don’t discuss it with them?

  165. Habby

    “I can confirm that Conjunction has written reviews of Craig’s books on Amazon UK.”

    How do you know this?

  166. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 5:43 pm

    “We live in an age of deception and the only limit is the boundaries of our imaginations to understand the full scope of the evil that our rulers are capable of doing.”

    Guano;

    I’m of the opinion that any person who seeks elected office should be disqualified on that basis.

    If they want the job they must either be barmy or duplicitous; seeking the perquisites of office rather than be inspired by the notion of Pubic Service.

    We used to conscript or Shanghai people for military and maritime bizness.

    “If nominated i will not run, if elected i will not serve” would be preferable.

  167. Nearly all of H’s remarks are personal and/or insulting. Going so fast, the typos are coming as fast as Pistorius’s bullets.

    O/T Aren’t you sick of the latter’s whining voice and the blubbing. Mr Nel is having none of it. The trial being covered live on TV news channels and featuring in news bulletins. Another diversion.

  168. I can confirm that a person who named himself Conjunction wrote a glowing review of “The Catholic Orangemen of Togo and other Conflicts I Have Known” which Craig picked up on in his blog.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/0956129900/ref=cm

    Why these two people are not the same I have no way of knowing. Habbabkuk was not contributing to the blog at that time, at least under the name Habbabkuk.

  169. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:03 pm

    Hurby

    “You say:

    “I do not believe the USD will collapse”

    What makes you think that?”
    _________________

    My sincere apologies to you, but my sources are confidential and my lips must therefore remain sealed.

    Are you buying Chinese currency, Hurby?

  170. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:06 pm

    Mary

    “Nearly all of H’s remarks are personal and/or insulting. Going so fast, the typos are coming as fast as Pistorius’s bullets.”
    _______________

    What a tasteless, misplaced comment, showing total disregard for his victim and her grieving parents. Please show a little compassion.

  171. “I would put it more down to ignorance rather than genuine intent.”

    Please support that opinion.

    Very difficult to support the existence of ignorance/prove a negative – I think the onus has to be on you to demonstrate that genuine intent existed.

  172. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:13 pm

    Hurby

    As an afterthought and to be helpful to you:

    If you get a shove on, you’d still be able to buy your Chinese currency in NY before the exchanges close, alternatively, you could wait a little until the Far East opens again. Let me know how you get on, won’t you.

  173. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:16 pm

    To a person naming himself John Goss:

    “I can confirm that a person who named himself Conjunction wrote a glowing review of “The Catholic Orangemen of Togo and other Conflicts I Have Known” which Craig picked up on in his blog.”

    _____________

    And that a person who named himself Conjunction also wrote a review of “Murder in Samarkand” on Amazon.

    I hope this helps the person naming himself Herbie (even though I always think of him as “Hurby”)

  174. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:18 pm

    Mary

    “The trial being covered live on TV news channels and featuring in news bulletins. Another diversion.”
    ______________

    I’m intrigued. Diversion from what?

  175. Is there something in the water at No. 10?

    Definite signs of religious mania setting in Agent Cameron and shades of BLiar all over again.

    David Cameron: ‘Jesus invented the Big Society – I’m just continuing God’s work’
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-claims-jesus-invented-the-big-society–he-is-just-continuing-gods-work-9250449.html

    PS How about Ave Javid or Vale Maria?

  176. Mary. Only if you read or listen to them. They are not diversions, they are distractions so that while your mind is busy engaging with them, you swallow another bit of garbage. I heard a Classic piece of BBC R4 tripe the other day in the program about interventionism: there were no UK boots on the ground in Libya.

    I have looked but I cannot find the report in the Daily Telegraph boasting defiantly that up to 1000 UK or NATO troops had been deployed covertly prior to Gaddafi’s murder. The same is obviously true today in Syria.

  177. John Goss

    So how many were killed by Stalin – you made the claim that it was less than those killed by Blair so now support it – I am interested in your sources for your claim!

  178. Habbabkuk; “But i have a pretty goos track record in these things: no World War 3 starting in Syria, former President Chavez not assassinated by injection of a lethal cancer virus, Malaysian airliner not hijacked to Diego Garcia, AS Victoria Nuland didn’t appoint the new Ukraine govt, etc, etc – the list is long!”

    LOL ! All the examples you cite are unproven &/or far too early to call; instead for a real example of foresight, remember Theresa May’s planned £3000 Surety Bond scheme for overseas visitors, that you posted many supportive comments on, well look who predicted, not once but twice, that it would never see the light of day, months before it was ditched;

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/comment-page-2/#comment-415225

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/comment-page-3/#comment-415767

    It was quite amusing that you were not amused when you were forced to admit that the Government were being forced to review aspects of it just days after it was announced !;

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/comment-page-4/#comment-415821

    Actually the whole thread it worth revisiting, as it illustrates how you had nothing to offer when I actually decided to fully engage with you on something, and also for the fun of you getting yourself into a spin & put right by others over Cast Lead & Shannon Airport figures ! Enjoy & re-live ;

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/?showmore=1

  179. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:31 pm

    “Mr Cameron faced a backlash from his own Conservative Party MPs yesterday over the way he handled Ms Miller’s resignation.”

    Just invoke the Jesus Principle and all your sins are forgiven. “Big Society” is what, Cameron’s nod to the Great Society of LBJ?

    Now if Christian qualities are truly represented, hypocrites should flee for their very lives.

  180. “Stalin was definitely a baddie, but who funded him.

    Who made it all possible”

    The natural resources of Russia extracted by slave labour and the export sales of grain stolen from the victims of the Holodomir are two sources that come to mind – but I suppose that you attribute it all to his Jewish relatives or some other anti- semitic rubbish – don’t worry Mr Goss has provided the links many times.

  181. John Goss

    Come on hurry up – don’t play your usual game of making wild assertions and then thinking they are valid because you ask someone else to prove the opposite. Your claim – you back it up or it is garbage. What is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  182. An O/T interview with Lothar de Maiziere on the extend of US spying and what can be done to understand it fully.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-interior-minister-warns-us-spying-has-no-boundaries-a-963179.html

    There is also an article on the heartbleed virus, cursating for the last two years before being detected, but its in German and I can’t be arsed.
    Apparently a german wrote the code thjat could devastate two thirds of the internet and reveal vital personal data.

    http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/heartbleed-programmierer-deutscher-schrieb-den-fehlerhaften-code-a-963774.html

  183. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 6:41 pm

    Pinochet was a baddie as well, and we know who funded that mass-murderer.

    Of course, any who point this out are bigoted toward Chileans, and generals and mass-murderers.

  184. Habby

    “My sincere apologies to you, but my sources are confidential and my lips must therefore remain sealed.”

    I see. Clueless as ever.

    Why do you think the US is encircling Russia and China with anti-missile shields?

    You do realise that the only way out for the US and a soft landing for its dollar is that the Russians and Chinese meekly submit to a new banking order.

    You obviously think that’s very very likely.

    We’re back to blinky blinky who blinks first.

    Only difference this time is they’ve killed all the Kennedys.

    Have you any idea just how many systems accidents there have been with nukes, and that the only reason we’re still here is that Russian humans assumed an error.

    Are they really likely to still assume an error with all the first-strike tension the American teenagers are creating.

  185. “John Goss

    So how many were killed by Stalin – you made the claim that it was less than those killed by Blair so now support it – I am interested in your sources for your claim!”

    How many what? Dogs? Men? Women? Germans? Look up how many children Stalin killed yourself. Not as many as Blair I will wager.

  186. ESLO

    Are you claiming that western bankers did not support Stalin?

    Why is this such a problem for you.

    The bankers wanted rid of the Tsar because he wouldn’t join their banking system.

    Same as now.

  187. “What is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”

    I gave you two links concerning figures for Blair. You have not refuted them. You just tried to change the argument, which was about children Blair killed, not people. Stalin’s purges were against adults and those who he thought posed a threat. Of course there was the siege (Leningrad) during the war in which countless numbers died of starvation and cold. Are you counting them?

    Where are your figures?

  188. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:15 pm

    OT
    ‘Yes. No. Of course’ epitomises BBC’s dire response to cumulative effects of Birtist Thatcherism. Highly recommended for devastating no-joke logo joke three-quarters of the way through: http://tinyurl.com/nh5e36o

  189. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:16 pm

    Macky

    Your entire post was hilarious, but what really almost made me fall off my chair was the following modest gem :

    “Actually the whole thread it worth revisiting, as it illustrates how you had nothing to offer when I actually decided to fully engage with you on something,..”

    Macky, you have never engaged with me, fully or otherwise. You have however been floored by me on several occasions.

    Whereas I have sometimes likened you to a broken-down old pug, struggling up from the canvas for yet another pasting, I think out friend Dreoilin said it better when she opined : “Macky is not the sharpest blade in the drawer”.

    In fact, more of a (wooden) spoon.

  190. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:17 pm

    OT
    Outside UK, one of simplest ways of getting access to BBC iPlayer (see above) is via:

  191. “On February 25th, Iraq’s Cabinet approved a draft law lowering the age of legal marriage for females to nine years old.”

    It should be pointed ot that the word “marriage” doesn’t mean just the same thing in Muslim countries as it does in Britain. Just because two people are married it does not mean they are going to sleep together, or even live together. It’s a contract, the man agrees to support his wife/wives. In countries where there are many poor, where women are often uneducated and unable to support themselves, where parents are often unable to support their families to adulthood, it can be a good thing as well as bad.

    Thanks to Bush and Blair I expect there are many orphan young girls in Iraq right now, this law offers them a life, financial independence, rights. Many rich men would marry them as a form of charity, not to have sex with them.

  192. Jonangus Mackay

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:20 pm

    *tries again*

    Outside UK, one of simplest ways of getting access to BBC iPlayer (see above) is via: https://www.tunnelbear.com

  193. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    “Stalin’s purges were against adults and those who he thought posed a threat.”
    __________________-

    Radio Moscow’s on the air again, I see.

    With the Kremlin balls (sorry, I meant bells) in the background.

    **********************

    “Life had become grim, life has become bloodier” (J. Stalin, ca. 1938)

  194. Your posts there Macky illustrate the point well that H’a avatar then was different to the one on these recent threads. Different location? Different IP address? Different persona altogether?

    Keep going. I can’t bothered with his continual nit picking, just like a monkey with a low pack rating who can only rise to a higher position by grooming the coats of the more dominant ones in the troupe thus providing a useful service. Or so he thinks.

    http://lucygoes.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/img_6986.jpg?w=625&h=416

  195. Nevermind

    In my mind’s eye I can see Angela Merkel pointing her right forefinger to her lips as pretty as pie, while protesting about NSA bugging of her phone.

  196. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:25 pm

    Fred

    That was an interesting post, thank you.

  197. “Many rich men would marry them as a form of charity, not to have sex with them.”

    Marriage is not adoption. A child cannot understand it implications. If a rich person wanted to provide for an orphan all well and good. But that can be done at a distance. The child has no need to be in the company of the benefactor. There is no excuse for marriage to a child.

  198. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:29 pm

    Mary

    “Your posts there Macky illustrate the point well that H’a avatar then was different to the one on these recent threads. Different location? Different IP address? Different persona altogether?”
    ________________

    Can’t get your head round the simple idea that I am, by myself, more than a match for the while bunch of you, eh?

    BTW you’re posting a lot – are you trying to hit the top of page 2?

    ****************

    La vita è bella, life is good! Exterminate nits and fleas.

  199. ESLO

    Come on hurry up.

  200. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    10 Apr, 2014 - 7:31 pm

    Mr Goss re marriage to children :

    Could we therefore please hear you condemn this aspect of Iranian law as well?

  201. Someone wrote earlier that Sajid Javid MP was not a practising Muslim. That would be in order to gain political credibilty to gain high office, not a matter of personal conviction. Bear in mind the MI5 and mosque bug your house to see what you are really doing in the privacy of your own home. So you would have to be really not praying at home to satisfy them.

    The sacrifices you have to make for Islam!

  202. @Habbabkuk,

    Your self-inflating delusions are apparent to all, whetever you really believe in them or not, doesn’t really matter; the reason why you squat here is because there is no other Blog that would tolerate you making a mockery like you do, so keep thanking your lucky star that Craig tolerates you because he enjoy “Lefties” being baited, and for sure, you cetainly have nothing else to contribute here.

  203. doug scorgie

    10 Apr, 2014 - 8:01 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    10 Apr, 2014 – 12:51 pm

    “Women can be as ruthless as men, as to why, how and for what reasons is open to debate.”
    _______________
    “…You shouldn’t put any category or group on a pedestal, you know!”

    I quite agree Habbabkuk, including a race or tribe.

  204. “Marriage is not adoption. A child cannot understand it implications. If a rich person wanted to provide for an orphan all well and good. But that can be done at a distance. The child has no need to be in the company of the benefactor. There is no excuse for marriage to a child.”

    In Britain maybe, where the custom is for two soul mates to fall in love and spend the rest of their lives together. That isn’t what marriage means in Muslim countries.

    There is no necessity for the bride and groom to live together, the bride doesn’t even have to attend the wedding if she doesn’t want to.

  205. Tony F12 Hersh report on Erdogan’s involvement in Syria.

    Turkey is behaving like Mrs Thatcher in relation to the former Yugoslavia, as if it was an independent nation. Neither Turkey nor the UK are any no longer independent nations. They are wholly-owned/ controlled assets of ZioBanking. There is no such thing as Erdogan wanting to influence the war in Syria. There is only what Israel tells Turkey to do. Destroy Syria completely like Iraq.

    Erdogan’s attraction is is releasing his country from the cruel shackles of Attaturk, by which Islam has been tortured for nearly 100 years. His opponent, trained in the US like Mursi of Egypt, though not of the same sect of Islam, has the local Turkish Sufi camouflage in order to deceive the Turkish Muslims. The Turks will not be deceived by a US trained Islamic leader. If Fethullah is put in the Turkish military will kick him out again, same as Mursi.

    Hersh portrays Erdogan as a warmonger. He is not. His currency is very vulnerable to external forces and he needs regional allies to counter Israeli bullying, same as we do in the UK. He has done the bare minimum to comply with Israel’s intent to destroy all of its own immediate neighbours. Israel, not Turkey is the elephant in the room.

  206. conjunction 10 Apr, 2014 – 3:53 pm

    “A. Node:…. in general I am not sure that [Geldof's] legacy is a negative one, and in your earlier post which you link to, with respect, you do not produce much hard evidence.”

    I can’t supply the proof you want. The world I believe in doesn’t readily supply proof of its own existence :) I believe it can be reliably inferred, though:

    Why is it that no African country, even with vast natural resources at its disposal, has grown rich and powerful in its own right. Why is it that the more resources an African country has, the poorer its people? Why is it that, other than a couple of white controlled enclaves, Africa entirely missed out on the progress of the 20th century.

    Africa is comprehensively exploited by powerful Western interests. They are able to accrue vast power and riches by keeping Africans poor and powerless. If wages rose, their profits would fall. If Africans took control of their raw resources, their profits would fall. The optimum strategy is to keep all Africa poor and disorganised. If even one African country gained control of its own destiny, it would set an example which would eventually derail the gravy train.

    This has been the status quo for a couple of centuries. Why hasn’t it changed? People don’t endure subjugation without protest. Aren’t Africans are as clever and ambitious as any other people? A state of affairs like this has to be managed – revolutions crushed, honest leaders dealt with, conflicts created, corruption encouraged, puppet leaders installed and maintained. All this is enforced through the influence and ultimately the military might of Western governments.

    Those people at the top are ruthless, but we ordinary Western taxpayers are not. The majority of us would baulk at our money being used to create such suffering, so we cannot be allowed to know the true state of affairs. We are kept in the dark, and our governments are manipulated, by the same means – the control of information through the mainstream media. The MSM is owned by those same powerful ruthless people and it protects and promotes their interests in Africa and elsewhere by portraying an illusion and suppressing the truth. The illusion is that native African progress is constantly stymied by corruption and conflict, that Africans are inherently unable to look after their own affairs. The truth is that such a notion is nonsense. Day in and day out, we are fed stories and pictures which reinforce the illusion, whilst those which would break it are filtered out. And decade after decade, those conscienceless puppet-masters plunder a continent and perpetuate suffering, protected and promoted by their strictly controlled media.

    Then along comes a hero. He organises concerts which raise millions for famine relief. He makes us all feel we can do something to help. He becomes a champion of the starving millions. He button-holes Prime ministers and Presidents and shames them into promising increased aid. He even upstages a G8 meeting. The media love him. His face fills the front pages, news bulletins lead on his opinions, TV companies clear their schedules to broadcast his events, the loveable rogue is even allowed to swear on TV. From the Sun to the Telegraph, he is known as ‘Saint Bob’…….

    ….. But wait a minute …. haven’t we just seen that with respect to Africa, the media’s main job is to maintain the status quo? For generations it’s been used to maintain Africa’s deprivation, and now here it is publicising someone who wants to change that? The defender of the exploiters is now defending the exploited?

    And that’s basically it. That’s where it doesn’t stack up. Whatever tinkering with the system results from Geldof’s self-aggrandising tinkering, it isn’t intended to make any significant difference. Whether it’s designed to camouflage the lack of real assistance, or channel increased funds to puppet leaders, or whatever, it is being orchestrated by the mainstream media, and they only do their masters’ bidding, and after two centuries of handing out misery, I don’t believe the masters just got charitable.

    And Geldof? Well, he definitely isn’t as clever as he thinks he is, but neither could he possibly be so stupid or so ignorant that he could be unaware of his role in this stage-managed charade. He colludes with the powerful to hide the truth of the tragedy of Africa – that the one and only reason for the never-ending misery and hopelessness of that continent is that we, the West, work hard to keep it so.

    Geldof is a liar and a fraud.

  207. A Node

    He probably isn’t, and it is very unpleasant of you to attack him about anything at this particular moment of time. Likely only apparent liars and frauds get airspace in the media in this day and age. The fact that he has lost a 25 year old daughter is heartbreaking for him and I feel for him.

  208. Mods

    Any chance of removing this cross avatar. Easter is an especially annoying piece of pagan brainwashing without being given idolatrous logos as well.

    Thanks in anticipation.

  209. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    10 Apr, 2014 - 8:53 pm

    Heh; I thought it looked more like a maze, but like most interpretations, it’s about one’s perception. I can understand the objection, since the instrument of the prophet’s death seems more of an obscenity, than a totem.

  210. Guano:
    “He probably isn’t,”
    Hmm, not a lot to get my teeth into there.

    “it is very unpleasant of you to attack him about anything at this particular moment of time”
    I sympathise with him as a father, I despise him as a human being.

  211. Macky

    “@Habbabkuk,

    Your self-inflating delusions are apparent to all, whetever you really believe in them or not, doesn’t really matter; the reason why you squat here is because there is no other Blog that would tolerate you making a mockery like you do, so keep thanking your lucky star that Craig tolerates you because he enjoy “Lefties” being baited, and for sure, you cetainly have nothing else to contribute here.”

    I thought it was purely in defence of freedom of expression that Cuckubus was allowed to stay on here. Identified by the smell of rotting eggs he’s kicked to the ground. Why do the mums keep feeding him?

  212. Rather despise the empty wind-bag of the media for creating him.
    Yesterday I switched off a Turkish soap my wife was watching. A young mother who had lost her baby murdered her mother-in-law by switching off her oxygen. I don’t have a telly but the smell of swine-manure still keeps wafting in. Leave the poor man alone please. He is a well-intentioned human being. The media will not present cynicism at the level needed to understand what is really going on any more, after Blair’s castration of the media over false intelligence. Nor will the newspapers. Even the politicians have to scour the conspiracy sites to find out what is really going on.

  213. Trying to get a new one

  214. Trying again..

  215. Too nazi, trying again..

  216. Absolutely beautiful. Mods, please can i keep this one?

  217. Guano; “I thought it was purely in defence of freedom of expression that Cuckubus was allowed to stay on here”

    Sadly nothing as noble, but don’t worry as you are far from alone in being fooled on this score.

  218. “Rather despise the empty wind-bag of the media for creating him.”
    I’ll take the opportunity to correct myself. Instead of “despise”, let’s say I have contempt for him as a human being. And unfortunately, the media isn’t an empty windbag – it controls the Western world.

    “Leave the poor man alone please. He is a well-intentioned human being.”
    No, that’s my point. He isn’t well-intentioned. He is knowingly shafting Africa for his own selfish advancement. I take back my first correction. He is despicable again.

  219. Resident Dissident

    10 Apr, 2014 - 10:26 pm

    “Anybody with a conscience would disassociate themselves from such a character, a person who has probably murdered, and continues to murder, more children than Beria and Stalin put together, in Afgahnistan, Iraq and Libya.”

    “Stalin’s purges were against adults and those who he thought posed a threat.”

    You are a disgusting person – my wife’s family lost relatives both in the GULAG and in Western Russia due to the famine created by Stalin to deal with the Kulaks. As some one who purports to have a degree in International Relations and claims to have studied Russia I’m afraid ignorance cannot be offered as a defence.

    As for who killed more Stalin or Blair, I can well understand ESLO wanting to make you justify your feeble claim, since the answer is pretty well know to those with more than the basic level of education and who are not blatant sycophants for Stalin and his more modern admirers but please read the following and check all the links before coming back with an apology for your initial ridiculous claim

    http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm

    What I find slightly worrying is how my Party ever let you join in the first place – but good riddance to bad rubbish is what I say.

  220. Resident Dissident

    10 Apr, 2014 - 10:41 pm

    3 million children dead in the Holodomor

    http://www.ukemonde.com/genocide/margolisholocaust.html

    Of the 20 million people convicted of crimes and sent to corrective labor in the 1930s, roughly 40 percent were children.

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-80-issue-2/herbooknote/children-of-the-gulag_354#.U0cPjWZwa70

    Apology required Mr Goss

  221. Resident Dissident

    10 Apr, 2014 - 11:00 pm

    “Any chance of removing this cross avatar. Easter is an especially annoying piece of pagan brainwashing without being given idolatrous logos as well.”

    Not per the Quran

    “And they said we have killed the Messiah Isa son of Maryam, the Messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him. On the contrary, God raised him unto himself. God is almighty and wise.”

    —Quran surah 4 (An-Nisa النساء) ayah 157-158[22]

  222. John Goss and Resident Dissident; do you both want to argue with each other? I doubt that either of you are “disgusting” or immoral; you just believe different things. You can argue about which killer is “worse”, but I am sure that you are both deeply morally opposed to any non-defensive killing. From my outsider’s perspective, I see both fault and good intent in both of you, and I find your argument pointless and depressing.

    Would you like to increase the total of human happiness? You could start right now by cheering me up. To do this, just discuss general moral principles at the most fundamental levels and establish that you essentially agree about good and bad. From there, you can progress back down to the details of how those ideals might be achieved.

    If you can’t solve this trivial disagreement, how can you expect humanity ever to progress towards greater peace? Lead by good example deliberately, because your example has influence whether it’s good or bad. Give me some hope for humanity; at present you’re both doing the opposite.

  223. ESLO, Resident Dissident, or whatever your real name is. If what you say is true, and with a person who changes his socks as often as you do it is very hard to tell where fact can be differentiated from fiction, I am sorry to hear about your wife’s family. That does not detract from the fact that you have not answered the statement that Stalin killed more children than Blair. Your figures also appear to include deaths from famine (though I have not studied them in depth). Nobody who believes in justice would want to belong to a party who had Blair at its head. Or Stalin. They are both in the same book as Vlad Tepes and Genghis Khan in my opinion. Two-faced people never criticised Stalin or Hitler while they were alive. Fortunately we can criticise in the west today. When the real history books about Bush and Blair are written we will all be long dead ourselves so we will never know what the full toll was.

    There are millions of bereaved families already in Iraq alone and the historians have not got the figures yet for all the deaths, abortions and stillbirths from depleted uranium and white phosphorous weapons. Blair knew these weapons were being used. And what they were capable of doing. The human cost of Blair’s riches are incalculable. Your party as you call it has nothing to do with socialism. There are a few MPs who still believe in socialism, but that’s it. You are welcome to it.

    While your link is worthy of some study I cannot find where it gives the number of children killed by Stalin. Can you provide that link please. That would be very helpful. Thanks.

  224. I am not defending Stalin or the gulags. 40% (roughly) of 20 million may have been children. I cannot dispute that. I do not have any alternative figures. How many of these children died? Those that died of starvation must be discounted. There were millions died worldwide in the thirties. It was a global depression. There is another one coming because we are a world in debt living in a fictional world of false finance.

  225. Guano

    “Any chance of removing this cross avatar. Easter is an especially annoying piece of pagan brainwashing without being given idolatrous logos as well.”

    Eh!

    Surely the pagan Easter speaks more to us as humans than The Book.

    I see everyone out enjoying, rebirth, renewal and blossom. The cycle. The longer days. The planting. The dancing. The harvest to come.

    I do understand that if you don’t have seasons then it may well be all a mystery, and you could be a bit dour on it.

    Here’s Maddy, with the difference between Romans and Celts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWzPiGHd_Y

    Interestingly, the Celtic Church were perhaps a bit more ascetic and to your taste. The Roman Church quite debauched.

    Fell out, over the date of Easter apparently.

    Became heretics…

  226. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 12:01 am

    “How many of these children died? Those that died of starvation must be discounted. There were millions died worldwide in the thirties. It was a global depression. There is another one coming because we are a world in debt living in a fictional world of false finance.”
    __________________

    “Those that died of starvation must be discounted”???????

    You really are a thoroughly filthy fellow.

    I wonder if the people in the “Left Unity” party read your vaporings on this blog? Someone should be of service to that party and let them know about you.

  227. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 12:02 am

    Herbie

    Did you get a good rate of exchange for your purchases of Chinese currency?

  228. Habbakuk,

    You’re not-i sense-an instinctively bad chap/chapess..however..

    You do need to be more genteel amongst your bretheren,brother.

    Think about it.

    Lest you become silly,again.

  229. o Who takes Anna Ardin seriously? Did she conspire with her friend /lover ( ?) Sofia Wilen to set Assange balls a rolling – that is the question. Ardin is the Political Secretary of the Swedish Social Democrats. Ardin was connected to the “ladies in white” who protest the Castro regime and has ties to anti-Castro groups ( supported by the CIA) and she was deported from Cuba for reason of subversive activities. Lieutenant Colonel Mattias Ardin, Deputy Head of Operations, Swedish Joint Forces Land Component Command, cousin and close friend. He works with Nato Operations in Afghanistan. Is there any remote probability of a CIA link or operation? Would the CIA be smart enough to get a feminist leftist to smear Assange …duh…huh? Her blog is called “ 7 steps to legal revenge” and step one was to screw Assange. For goodness sake she brought the man to Sweden for a conference and a fuck. Then he bestows blessings on her friend Sophia as well and she too sets out to fuck him. Isn’t the whole affair a load of “poppycock” – sorry – double “poppycock” intended to smear Assange upon the flimsiest of so-called evidence? At least he has so far not been charged with impotence.
    • Top secret – I just figured it out – Assange has a weakness for women. So, my legal advice to him is that the next feminist Swedish woman he has sex with he proceeds as follows:-
    document, the following:-
    i) Names of the persons about to have sex.
    ii) Protected or unprotected sex has to be agreed.
    iii) The various positions in which the sex is permitted.
    iv) The duration of the sex – with a pre-ejaculation clause included.
    v) Whether the Kama Sutra can at any stage of the intercourse be consulted if the sex is not proving exciting enough.
    vi) Finally – what are the expressions of sexual satisfaction to be when the two climax – be it a simple ohhhhh – or an – ahhhh – or some other pre-approved expression of appreciation.
    Never forget to have the consenting Swedish woman sign with the words added “ I have signed this document of my own volition, without inducement, excitement, anticipation, or any other form of seductive invitation from the man with whom I am about to have sexual intercourse – and – I have signed because indeed I freely want to have sex with this man (insert the man’s name).” Then you can have sex and he can then insert his penis into the vagina ( but only for the duration that she has pre-signed to).
    I plan to write a play about the whole affair – and it will be called “ Captain cocksman in blonde land”.

  230. BrianFujisan

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:38 am

    Coutney FFs you ok dude… That’s NOT Quite you

  231. Resident Dissident

    11 Apr, 2014 - 6:54 am

    “Those that died of starvation must be discounted.”

    I thought Mr Goss had reached the bottom of the barrel. Apparently not.

  232. Resident Dissident

    11 Apr, 2014 - 7:01 am

    While your link is worthy of some study I cannot find where it gives the number of children killed by Stalin.

    Strangely enough your friend didn’t keep such detailed head count figures of the age or method of killing of his victims. Any person with any sense of shame would just admit that they had no support whatsoever fro their preposterous claim.

  233. Craig Murray

    you are most brilliant.

  234. @John

    If RD uses sock puppets or not I wouldn’t like to say.

    I will say that him and ESLO using the same email address is circumstantial while the evidence given that they have never used the same IP address I would consider stronger evidence that they are not the same person. The moderator said there was no conclusive evidence.

    Either way attempts to discredit the poster are no substitute for having facts to support your statements. It’s if what someone says is true or not that matters.

  235. Ba'al Zevul (Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 8:47 am

    Herbie – “Ba’al Zevul

    You’re easily impressed.”

    Not at all. But when I’m wrong, I try to admit it. While the G8 failed to achieve its stated goals, (failed particularly and spectacularly in the case of CO2 emissions control), it can claim some modest success in pressing for Third World debt relief. In that case I was wrong to say its achievements had been zero – as I did, in haste.

    If cancelling debt and increasing aid have been a cash cow for some very wasteful and downright crooked NGO’s, and have leveraged access to poor countries’ resources for exploitative globalist companies, I have also to remember that geopolitics are of no interest to someone who is wondering where his next meal is coming from, or whether it will come at all. And his case has improved.

    Happy to debate this.

  236. Ba'al Zevul (Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 9:24 am

    Meanwhile, more downright spite from the masters of downright spite:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26982166

    Israel has imposed sanctions against the Palestinian Authority (PA) in retaliation for signing a number of international treaties… taxes collected on behalf of the PA will be frozen, with limited access to bank deposits in Israel.

  237. Ba'al Zevul (Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 9:51 am

    Bleak assessment from the Economist on the doomed Is-Pal talks -

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21600710-john-kerrys-dogged-bid-two-state-solution-has-faltered-peace-process

    It anticipates* the tax sanctions (above), which may conceivably prove to be a shot in the foot for the Israel Project;

    If Mr Netanyahu carries out a threat to punish the Palestinians by cutting off the revenue from taxes and tariffs that passes through Israeli hands, the Palestinian Authority might well collapse, requiring the Israeli army to go back into West Bank cities and turning the Palestinians’ struggle into one for full incorporation into a Greater Israel, along with voting and other civil rights. Since the Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza outnumber Jewish Israelis, it would mean the eventual end of Israel as a majority-Jewish state.

    *With more than the usual benefit of hindsight – the article is wrongly dated as tomorrow’s.

  238. Ba'al Zevul (Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 10:03 am

    Wow. US mediator Indyk (ex-AIPAC, so no problem there) is dangling the release of Pollard in front of Netanyahu. (NOTE: contrary to an Al-Arabiya report, this is certainly not a done deal: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/state-department-jonathan-pollard-105584.html

    More carrot for Israel, and still no sign of the required stick. Can Indyk deliver? Questionable. Will it even get that far? LOL. He’s safe enough, even if the US is happy to release its biggest traitor

  239. Heartbleed bug? No. Bleeding hearts and no irony. Yes.

    Israelis help injured green turtles!! So much for the Palestinians. In the much longer Sky version (on both channels note and repeated several times last night) the scientist credited work on Israeli military aircraft for the design of the fin. What crap.

    Turtle in Israel given replacement fin
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26979295

  240. Fred, thank you for your comment. I agree “Either way attempts to discredit the poster are no substitute for having facts to support your statements.”

    I have had a look, though not studied, the link provided by Resident Dissident. Remember when I did my first degree the Kremlin archives had not been available so the extent of the purges was not available. Krushchev had hinted at this in his memoirs.

    The links I gave to the Tony Blair and George Bush killings in Iraq, and remember that does not include, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Serbia and wherever else NATO has recently engaged, were direct deaths from an illegal war. The figures provided by RD were not the direct killings of Stalin, Beria and their henchmen.

    The reason death through starvation should be discounted is because it was, as I tried to explain, a global problem. Do we call children who died during the Great Depression in the United States victims of Roosevelt’s purges? If you cannot read all this article there is a table on page 40 which shows the decline in infant mortality during the period in the United States.

    https://www.princeton.edu/chw/events_archive/repository/02272006_haines/02-27-06.pdf

    I am not, and never have been, a Stalinist. Nearly all people who get to positions of supreme power are evil creatures who have climbed on the backs of others to get there. But the argument was made in Zoe Williams’ article that Tony Blair should no longer be called a ‘war-criminal’ because he did some good. If such an argument was true, and I do not believe it is, Stalin changed Russia (the USSR) from being a backward agrarian country into a superpower. In terms of technological advancement that is undoubtedly a true statement. It does not excuse his purges. Neither should Blair be excused his war-criminality.

  241. Anyone think ZW is just trying to attract attention by making obviously false arguments, agitate the digital biosphere and hope from the thousands one person may visit guardian website.

  242. Ba’al; “US mediator Indyk (ex-AIPAC, so no problem there) is dangling the release of Pollard in front of Netanyahu”

    Interesting take on this here;

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/04/10/why-free-jonathan-pollard-now/

  243. Herbie

    Became heretics…

    Tip for correct electrical testing results: zero out the resistance of your leads first.

    Tip for correct religious testing results: don’t take for granted the bits of preaching that say it’s a miracle that we as humans are not supposed to understand. Zero out ideas your mind is finding resistance in comprehending or the bits you are told you should not worry your little head about.

    Religion above all things is something you have to fully understand. God is in charge of everything and we are being tested in our lives on our primeval promise to worship him only.
    Otherwise we are just clutching at straws, slipping into heretical quicksand…

  244. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 11:16 am

    Thanks, Macky. Some interesting links on that page, too. Seems the US palaeoconservatives are alive to what’s going on.

  245. Mr Goss

    My advice would be that when in a hole to stop digging. You are just heaping lies and distortions on top of each other, and all the time revealing more and more of your true nature.

    You received your degree in 1983. There was plenty of documentation of the extent of the GULAG by that time e.g. Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago was published in 1973.

    As for the “famine” line you are taking – you are again taking the entirely discredited Stalinist line that it was all a natural phenomenom. No it wasn’t, it was nearly all man made and was caused by the mass confiscation of grain, including the seed grain for future crops, the murder and deportation of the kulaks, the forced collectivisation of agriculture. All of this was revealed at the time by Malcolm Muggeridge and Gareth Jones, but fellow travellers and useful idiots wilfully chose to ignore what they were saying for many years, and in the case of useless idiots such as yourself still continue to do so. Might I kindly, suggest that you kindly suggest commenting further on matters Ukrainian until you fill the rather large Holodomor sized hole in your education.

    You made the assertion that Blair killed more children than Stalin and Beria – the only piece of evidence you have produced to support that wild assertion has been estimated total death figures for Iraq, which do not identify the number of children killed. Rather than supporting your own assertion, you resulted to your usual trick of asking others who challenged your assertion to demonstrate the opposite (quite how a reputable University gave you two degrees if this is your normal modus operandii is quite beyond me). RD made a sound attempt to take up your challenge, and in the process wiped the floor with you, he/she also explained the futility of getting a fix on the proportion of children among those who died in the Gulag – but lets just say it was likely to be many millions given the proportion of children who were sent there (which surprised even me) – but still you press for a precise number. Might I suggest that it is up to you to do that given your original assertion – which you know need to support or apologise for.

  246. “But the argument was made in Zoe Williams’ article that Tony Blair should no longer be called a ‘war-criminal’ because he did some good.”

    Which of course is not the case if you actually bother to read it – what you are giving is your own inference/straw man.

  247. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 11:45 am

    ESLO

    Brilliant post at 11h30; even the Master Evader won’t have a come-back for that one.

    Congratulations.

  248. ESLO, I’m sorry. I have never been an apologist for Stalin, whereas you are an apologist for Blair. Also you are so full of it all the senna pods in Arabia could not clear you out.

    I gave you a link.

    http://www.coia.org.uk/

    Your hero’s handiwork. Look at it! Shame on you!

    Also you are digressing off topic bec. I made a speculation using the word ‘probably’ that Blair (when the total number of directly-attributed deaths are known) will have killed more children than Stalin. You ignored my link once and said I had given no figures. Let’s see if

  249. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 11:50 am

    Herbie

    How did you get on with your purchase of Chinese currency yesterday?

    I’m assuming you did buy some since you’d previously posted predicting doom for the USD and exciting prospects for the renminbi.

  250. Apologies I hit the wrong key and it posted before I’d finished.

    ESLO, I’m sorry. I have never been an apologist for Stalin, whereas you are an apologist for Blair. Also you are so full of it all the senna pods in Arabia could not clear you out.

    I gave you a link.

    http://www.coia.org.uk/

    Your hero’s handiwork. Look at it! Shame on you!

    Also you are digressing off topic because Blair is the subject and whether Zoe Williams is right that he should not be called a war-monger rather remembered for the good he has done. I simply made a speculation using the word ‘probably’ that Blair (when the total number of directly-attributed deaths are known) will have killed more children than Stalin. You ignored my link once and said I had given no figures. Let’s see if you do so again.

  251. There have been huge anti banker/austerity demonstrations/protests/riots going on in Spain since before the Arab Spring, pretty universally ignored by the media because it doesn’t suit the preferred narrative.
    I’m trying to decide if this is new footage or from last month. It’s got a tag saying 53 cities:
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=762_1397160302
    I’ve found this piece in today’s Mail Online but nothing anywhere else:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-105333/Demonstrators-riot-Spain.html
    Anybody know?

  252. ESLO = supporter of Guantanamo.
    ESLO = opposer of gulags.

    I oppose all this wrongdoing. So kick me off the moral high-ground bullshitter.

  253. You were right Habba

    The Perpetual Evader

    I did not say you gave no figures – just that the ones you gave did not support your claim.

    That site (which appears to be for an unregistered and therefore illegal UK Charity) does not give the total number of children killed in Blair’s war or for those killed by Stalin and Beria – your original claim is still entirely unsubstantiated.

    BTW Senna pods are from Egypt not Arabia.

  254. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 11:55 am

    ESLO

    Have you noticed how conspicuous Mr Goss’s fellow-Excellences – usually so quick to rush uninvited to each other’s defence – are by their silence at the moment?

    Not a peep on this matter from Mary, Ba’al Zevul, Herbie, Macky and the other vocalists.

    The Tovarish stands isolated.

    I wonder whether it is the silence of agreement or the silence of embarrassment?

  255. ESLO = supporter of Guantanamo.
    ESLO = opposer of gulags.

    Wrong and wrong – stop digging

  256. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 12:00 pm

    From the Great Evader aka Mr Goss

    “ESLO = supporter of Guantanamo.”
    _________________

    When he’s not “doing a Goss” or evading, he’s lying.

    Links, Mr Goss? And don’t come out with your “implicitly” bullshit. And when you’re at it, please supply links for your repeated assertion that I support torture (again, no “implicitly” bullshit).

  257. ESLO, stay on topic. Tell me you agree or disagree with Zoe Williams support for Blair. I’m sure you do. I would be ashamed to own it. But then I have some shame.

  258. “ESLO = supporter of Guantanamo.
    ESLO = opposer of gulags.

    Wrong and wrong – stop digging”

    So you don’t oppose the gulags? It’s not what you’ve been suggesting.

  259. John Goss

    Yes Mr Goss – I do oppose gulags. Perhaps not surprisingly I am not paying attention to your current warblings.

    No I don’t disagree with Williams support for Blair on the specific items where she indicated support was warranted – that is not the same as saying I agree with everything he did since I don’t. Some of us don’t toe the Party line as slavishly as yourself.

  260. John Goss

    You still need to support your claim or apologise.

  261. A Node, thanks for that. Yes it never makes it onto our media because they do not want us to know. The same is true of Bosnia. On fire but the MSM press are absent. It is why we need the alternative press and writers like Binoy Kampmark.

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/02/11/bosnias-violent-protests-he-who-sows-hunger-reaps-anger/

    Anyway it’s a nice day in Birmingham.

  262. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 12:26 pm

    Blair easing his friends into Ethiopia -

    http://www.waltainfo.com/index.php/explore/13001-pm-hailemariam-holds-talks-with-tony-blair-

    President educated in China, strong Chinese investment presence, tantalum (scarce strategic resource), gold. Enormous aid recipient.

    Ethiopia is a locus of international attention in the Horn of Africa due to both its consistently high rates of economic growth and for its continued problems with widespread hunger and poverty. The nation is also significant for being among the most dependent on foreign aid. Topping the worldwide list of countries receiving aid from the US, UK, and the World Bank, the nation has been receiving $3.5 billion on average from international donors in recent years, which represents 50 to 60 percent of its national budget.

    Development aid has become essential in funding the Ethiopian government’s so-called development strategy, outlined in the 2010 Growth and Transformation Plan. Through extensive infrastructure construction and large-scale agricultural production, the government of Ethiopia seeks to reach middle-income status by 2015. A key element of the development strategy is the relocation of 1.5 million people from areas targeted for industrial plantations under the government’s “villagization” program. With more than 80 percent of the Ethiopian population dependent on agriculture and pastoralism for subsistence, the disruptions caused by the villagization program are resulting in increased food insecurity, destruction of livelihoods, and the loss of cultural heritage.

    http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/development-aid-ethiopia
    https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Economy_of_Ethiopia.html

    And Senegal-

    http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/africa/news-entry/AGI-agrees-new-partnership-in-Senegal/

    Fairly democratic government, gross inequality, major exports fish, peanuts, phosphate – this last is something we really don’t want the Chinese monopolising as it is a rapidly dwindling resource essential for fertiliser – major international aid recipient.

  263. “Some of us don’t toe the Party line as slavishly as yourself.”

    I toed the party line that slavishly I got out.

    I thought you were a Blair apologist. Won’t be able to address any of your other comments but you could try picking on somebody else for a change. Or am I your only target today?

  264. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 12:31 pm

    Here’s Ba’al Zevul, still maintaining an embarrassed silence re the Great Evader’s vapourings LOL

  265. Just joined the habbabreak club and I hear that Clark is calling for a tedium break. I’ll second that, after all we are living in a new Millenium and revisionists are at work in the here and now, dare I say Bliar.

  266. Sorry John that you are standing alone against two of them who in concert have made at least eleven attacks on you this morning but as you know I refrain from falling into Habbabkuk’s enticements to join in. If I was you, I would ignore them. They are adept at twisting other people’s comments to what they see as their advantage. They are so transparent. Agent Cameron/Heir to Blair could do with some of transparency at No 10.

  267. More Greenwald stooging for the corporate state.

  268. Back to Blair and his part in the blowing out of small children’s brains.

    This is the truth behind the toppling of Saddam’s statue. Do you remember the US flag being put on the top and the ‘crowd’ stamping on the statue after it was brought to the ground?

    All staged.

    The photographs tell the story…

    Is This Media manipulation on a grand scale?
    Updated: 04/15/03

    New pictures of ” crowd” in the square: Picture 1 Picture 2 Picture 3 Picture 4

    Yes, the occupation has begun.

    See Also: A tale of two photos
    04/10/03
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

    Comments added April 09, 2014

  269. “There have been huge anti banker/austerity demonstrations/protests/riots going on in Spain since before the Arab Spring, pretty universally ignored by the media because it doesn’t suit the preferred narrative.
    I’m trying to decide if this is new footage or from last month. It’s got a tag saying 53 cities:
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=762_1397160302
    I’ve found this piece in today’s Mail Online but nothing anywhere else:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-105333/Demonstrators-riot-Spain.html
    Anybody know? ”

    The Liveleak footage come from last month’s riots which were well covered by the “MSM”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26703528

    The Daily Mail piece dates from 2002. Clues are in the reference to the European Council meeting in Barcelona and the shooting of Carlo Giuiliani which happened in 2001.

    From people who claim to do their own research that was a pretty poor showing.

  270. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 1:25 pm

  271. John Goss, they often remind me of hyenas. They attack in a mob, lunging and snapping from all sides, wearing their prey down.
    Take a break, ignore them, discuss something else.

    For example ….

    Don’t look here, look there.

    An often overlooked aspect of the media is their power to ignore a story. They lie, distort, and invent to spin their illusions, but just as effective is their ability to prevent a story becoming news.

    Don’t report it, don’t mention it, fill the void with trivia. It doesn’t matter if a million people witness an event – if there’s nothing on the news the next day, no way of finding out what happened next, no spreading the knowledge of the event, then it fades and dies.

    Supposedly, a Tunisian street vendor sets himself on fire and the world’s media embark on a non-stop full spectrum news frenzy of popular uprisings – public squares filled with demonstrators and bleeding civilians pressure for change which doesn’t stop till several Arab leaders have been replaced. Yet in Europe, since before the start of the Arab Spring and continuing after it, millions have marched, demonstrated, and rioted in Spain, in every city, occupying squares for months on end, true popular uprisings supported by all strata of society, yet most have never heard about it.

  272. Kempe 11 Apr, 2014 – 1:02 pm

    “From people who claim to do their own research that was a pretty poor showing.”

    Agreed. Thank you for the info.

  273. “A Node, thanks for that. Yes it never makes it onto our media because they do not want us to know. The same is true of Bosnia. On fire but the MSM press are absent. It is why we need the alternative press and writers like Binoy Kampmark.”

    It is of course not true that the MSM are absent

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26086857

    It is worth noting that NewsPostJunk – uses the same photos as the BBC, but unlike the BBC doesn’t attribute them to Reuters and AFP, who last time I checked were part of the MSM. One must question the editorial values of a newssite that uses/steals MSM photos and whose editor then criticises the MSM for not being present.

    While I sympathise with the protestors in Bosnia, I would be vary wary of the spin being put on matters by the writer, who seems to be keen to present the view that there is no discontent in the much more authoritarian Serbian part of Bosnia and who in a linked previous article came up with this whopper:

    “Chetnik leader Draža Mihailovic, who was betrayed by British ploys of misguided hope and accused of treason by Josip Broz Tito when Yugoslavia came into existence during the Second World War.”

    Yes – we betrayed the Chetniks and favoured Tito’s partisans – although the writer conveniently forgets that one reason for this was their collaboration with the Nazis even after we had supplied them with some weapons – read Fitzroy Macleans book for full details. What next rehabilitiation for the Utasha?

  274. ” Ignore the question, “is it happening?” ”

    The suggestion was that there is a widespread conspiracy amongst the MSM to hush up ongoing riots in Spain. Evidence provided included an article over ten years old!

    Rubbish as usual.

  275. …. and thank you too, Ba’al Zevul

  276. Before I go and do some work, let me clarify.

    The MSM don’t completely ignore big stories, they have to retain some credibility. It’s how, and how often the stories are reported that determines whether they become a story or a non-story.

    Make a celebrity murder trial top of every bulletin for a month and it’s a story.
    Do an occasional piece about Spanish hooligans just before the sports news, and it’s a non-story.

    I’m outa here

  277. Sofia Kibo Noh

    11 Apr, 2014 - 1:44 pm

    John, RD, Anyone…your thoughts?
    “American history records another crime against its own people – the Great American Holodomor, also in 1932-33, when the USA lost millions of citizens.

    You will not find any critical resolutions on that, just like you won’t find anything on the genocide of the indigenous people. American politicians don’t give passionate speeches on the subject, no “memorials” are built to mark the anniversary of mass annihilation. The memory of this is hidden in fake statistical reports, in archives, cleared of all evidence of the crime, attributed to the “invisible hand of the market”, glossed over by songs of praise to the genius of President Roosevelt, and the joy of community work, organised by him – not that different in essence from the Gulags or the construction of the Baltic Sea Canal.

    If you believe American statistics, in the 10 years from 1931 to 1940, 8,553,000 people were lost.

    An attempt to get access to demographic statistics is followed by many surprises right away: statistics from 1932 were destroyed – or hidden very well. They just don’t exist. No explanation is given.”

    From, http://www.sott.net/article/267900-Where-did-Americas-missing-millions-go-Holodomor-lessons-from-the-Great-Depression

  278. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 1:51 pm

    Not at all A. Node. Relevant to your argument may be this:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/04/morocco-unions-protest-austerity-plans-201446131645914944.html

    I’m guessing more Google hits and greater variety of outlets than any European/Canadian protest. Being in the Maghreb, it’s brown people and therefore nothing to do with us. And maybe another wonderful Arab Spring in the making?

    The only Western-read MSM to have stories on the Spanish protests in the first two pages returned from a Google search for ‘austerity protest spain’(This Week), are al-Jazeera and the Huffington Post. Maybe a conspiracy, maybe not. Pretty slack reporting by Murdoch, though, innit?

  279. Hint: These alternative news sites usually give the game away by the photos that they steal – just copy the photo and do an image search in Google and bingo you usually find that there exclusive content was already reported by MSM – they just make the assumption that everyone is as daft as they are.

  280. “not that different in essence from the Gulags or the construction of the Baltic Sea Canal.”

    Which planet do you live on? Please don’t advertise your ignorance.

  281. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:17 pm

    Hint: These alternative news sites usually give the game away by the photos that they steal – just copy the photo and do an image search in Google and bingo you usually find that there exclusive content was already reported by MSM – they just make the assumption that everyone is as daft as they are.

    No. Actually you’ll find most of them come from agencies – AP, AFP, Reuters etc. Who are simply interested in newsgathering. Correlation does not imply causation.

  282. On the MSM (corporate media) it’s all Mr Nel and Mr PissedAureus. Also the royals’ trivia from ‘down under’. We even had a bit from the BBC crawler Witchell that P George, on arrival in NZ, was wearing ‘a cream cardigan with matching shoes’. Another YCNMIU. P George’s mama resembled one of Mr Branson’s cabin crew.

    It’s actually a PR offensive to keep the people in the relics of the ‘Empire’ clapping and cheering some nonentities.

  283. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:19 pm

    I repeat:
    “The only Western-read MSM to have stories on the Spanish protests in the first two pages returned from a Google search for ‘austerity protest spain’(This Week), are al-Jazeera and the Huffington Post. Maybe a conspiracy, maybe not. Pretty slack reporting by Murdoch, though, innit?”

    This may imply that ‘alternative’, or more accurately non-state-approved, media are in fact more widely read than the Times. Which need not surprise us.

  284. Sofia Kibo Noh

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:25 pm

    ELSO

    Thanks. I wondered which of the conformity enforcers’ cages would be the first to be rattled by the mere mention of the Great American Holodomor .

    Here’s something else I’m wondering about.

    Now that our leaders have pissed off the Russians so well that they are thinking of turning off the gas it’s just as well we can be reassured with the promise of Uncle Sam’s gas instead.

    Too bad this American dream has about as much substance as the other one.

    http://real-economics.blogspot.ie/2014/04/exporting-natgas.html

  285. Sofia

    I am still waiting for your explanation as to why the community work organised by Roosevelt was in essence not that different from the Gulags and the construction of the White Sea Canal.

    I shall but down your belittling of the Ukrainian Holodomor to childish ignorance for the present.

  286. Sofia Kibo Noh

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:33 pm

    Oops! I posted another of those dreaded “alternative” news sites.

    Those who feel afraid for me when I cast their eyes on such heresies can rest assured that I have visited both them and MSM for years and can still make up my mind.

    ELSO, you should try a few, before they get banned for being off-massage.

  287. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:35 pm

    http://euronews.com/2014/04/10/yield-hungry-investors-clamour-for-greek-bonds/

    Why are they clamouring? Because they promise high yields.
    Why high yields? Because they are crap bonds with which Greece is postponing judgement day.
    What will pay for the yields? More austerity for the next five years.
    So it goes.

  288. Sofia Kibo Noh

    11 Apr, 2014 - 2:38 pm

    ELSO.

    Re Gulags.

    I’ve got stuff to do right now, but in the meantime try doing a bit of homework.

    First do a search on US prison system. Let’s gather some data and I promise I’ll get back to deal with you.

  289. I dip in and out of this blog to read Craig’s thoughts and those of the more rational commentators. The best thing that Craig or the Mod could do to improve debate and the standard of this blog would be to remove Mary with her ranting and divergence, followed in swift succession by Habbabkuk.

    Both are absolutely infuriating. Ignoring their posts becomes such a chore when Mary’s posts often consist nothing but of slurs, often snidely referring to Jewish ancestry as if it was a crime, and O/T posts aimed at demonstrating the latent evilness of the Tories. That would be bad enough if Mary’s posts were not followed and replied to by Habbabkuk with his inane and pedantic questioning of Mary and everyone else who he has taken umbridge with.

    Honestly you both are as bad as each other for derailing this blog. Get a grip!

    At the very least could others express that they find them both tedious? I can’t be the only one?

    Cheers, Mick

  290. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:02 pm

    Yet, ANOTHER incarnation….seemingly objective…..

    Tactics; they are Legion.

  291. Oh of course challenge Mary and I must be Habbabkuk in disguise. I can assure that I am not and that my criticism of him is as genuine as that of Mary.

  292. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:14 pm

    Mick

    “The best thing that Craig or the Mod could do to improve debate and the standard of this blog would be to remove Mary with her ranting and divergence, followed in swift succession by Habbabkuk.”
    _________________

    Or, alternatively, remove Mary (and perhaps John Goss, the Impudent Squatter) and then hold on for a while to see how Habbabkuk reacts/behaves?

  293. Ben-Scot NON-collaborator

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:15 pm

    Sofia; Thanks for that on the Great Depression. The scaled-back pop growth indicates more than self-imposed birth control. The people from this period were used to seeing high child mortality rates, so their answer was to have many, just in case.

    I had not heard this before now. Only Native American Holodomor seems worse, as it was deliberate starvation rather than convenient starvation.

  294. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:16 pm

    Mick

    Perhaps deal first with the action before moving on to the reaction?

  295. Ben-Joeph N. Welch

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:17 pm

    ” At long last, have you no sense of decency?”

  296. Habbabkuk, I think your pedantic questioning and targeting would simply alight upon someone else if Mary was removed. Besides have you been in receipt of repeated warnings from the previous mod, Jon?

  297. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:18 pm

    “Did I do good, Coach?”

  298. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:25 pm

    Great link, Sofia. Meticulous and detailed criticism of the fracking hype, with sources. Pity it’s not in the Daily Mail, but they don’t do that sort of thing…so let’s forget about real world economics and comfort ourselves with the Mail.

    Basic economics primer on the same site: the creation of money by the power of thought alone is regarded as a given by every finance house on earth, but usually ignored by anything likely to be read by the lumpen proletariat -

    http://real-economics.blogspot.ie/2014/03/money-creationthe-mind-is-repelled.html

  299. …and a slow round of applause for Ben.

  300. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:31 pm

    Mick

    “the community work organised by Roosevelt was in essence not that different from the Gulags and the construction of the White Sea Canal.”

    It is almost impossible not to react when you read egregious nonsense like the above. Or do you think that people who post that kind of tosh should remain unchallenged?

    Idem those who see a conspiracy – the hand of the evil West – behind every earthquake, natural disaster, crashed airliner, suicide of a banker, non-”political” story featured in the MSM, MP’s curriculum vitae, attempt to reform any sacred cow institution, bicycle race in leafy Surrey, etc etc…the list is endless.

    That’s if they really believe in what they write. It may of course be that those posters merely post that sort of guff in order to wind others up. But in that case they would be guilty of trollery, would they not?

    Anyway, if it’s all too much, why not just use Habbabreak and Marybreak?

  301. Ba'al Zevul ((Customer-Focused and Market-Driven)

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:36 pm

    Mick : I think Habbabreak ™ (or the lack of it) is probably responsible for the enigmatic interjections I’m seeing above.

    Habbabreak ™ – the season ticket for your train of thought. Get it here – https://greasyfork.org/scripts/246

    There is as yet no VanishMary, though. I think it might sell.

    On some fora the user screen has an ignore button which blocks your choice of irritating people. I am all for this, as conversations once again look like conversations.

  302. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 3:44 pm

    Mick

    “Habbabkuk, I think your pedantic questioning and targeting would simply alight upon someone else if Mary was removed.”
    _________________

    Why do you consider the questioning pedantic?

    Re “targeting” and the “someone else” : those who deserve it, get it. Fewer references to Jewish grandparents, fewer corrections from Habbabkuk. Fewer attempts to defend the old Soviet régime or Russian bullying of Ukraine, fewer corrections from Habbabkuk. Just examples, of course.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Besides have you been in receipt of repeated warnings from the previous mod, Jon?”
    _______________

    Possibly appeals to cool it, but unfortunately not matched by appeals to others, and therefore demonstrating partiality to those who cleave to the establishment line on here. Removed from the blog on a (trumped-up charge) which John himself more or less admitted was just an excuse to get rid of me but speedily reinstated. But I think you’re well aware of all that, even though your handle is a new one to me….:)

  303. Removed from the blog on a (trumped-up charge)

    Which bore some similarities to the rather more specific charge by A Node and John Goss against Lord Robertson it should be noted.

  304. “First do a search on US prison system.”

    I did a search with “20 million deaths” and came up with nothing of substance. In fact only 4 idiots making the same otiose comparisons as yourself.

    “Gulag” and “20 million deaths” came up with 2.83m entries. In future I shall think of you as Little Miss 0.0001%

  305. ESLO

    I made no charge against Robertson. Read it again.

  306. Interesting that ‘Mick’ arrives out of the blue. Some feeding of the trolls.

    I have posted today:

    Once on Israelis caring for injured turtles but not for Palestinians
    Another to give support to John against the trolling
    Then to highlight the fraud behind the taking down of Saddam’s statue
    Lastly a jokey comment on the UK media’s output and the coverage of the royals.

    Work it out.

    and btw Ba’al you are pretty fond of the sound of your own voice. Second time you have joined in having a dig at me after someone else has had a go. Away with the pair of you. It is not a competition here for goodness’ sake.

  307. A Node

    Absolutely right – replace “charge” with “insinuation”

    many apologies

  308. “Back to Blair and his part in the blowing out of small children’s brains.

    This is the truth behind the toppling of Saddam’s statue. Do you remember the US flag being put on the top and the ‘crowd’ stamping on the statue after it was brought to the ground?

    All staged.

    The photographs tell the story… ”

    Yes that has been public knowledge for some time, the American government have owned up to it.

    Myself it doesn’t surprise me much, that’s what America does. What concerns me more is that the entire world media went along with it.

    I’ not too sure just what part Blair played in it.

  309. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    11 Apr, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    “Myself it doesn’t surprise me much, that’s what America does. What concerns me more is that the entire world media went along with it.”

    You seem to think there is a difference between governance and the media, Fred.

  310. “The only Western-read MSM to have stories on the Spanish protests in the first two pages returned from a Google search for ‘austerity protest spain’(This Week), are al-Jazeera and the Huffington Post. Maybe a conspiracy, maybe not. Pretty slack reporting by Murdoch, though, innit? ”

    Well the most recent demonstration was a protest against the (alleged) police brutality at the previous one!

    http://www.expatica.com/es/news/spanish-news/protesters-march-against-police-violence-in-madrid_289900.html

    I suppose the idea that it really isn’t of much interest to a UK audience wouldn’t sway the Troofers from their conviction that it’s all being suppressed as part of some complex conspiracy. I mean would we expect every EDF march to get reported in the Spanish MSM?

  311. “You seem to think there is a difference between governance and the media, Fred.”

    There is.

    They are both players in the game, sometimes allies sometimes enemies, both seeking more power for themselves.

  312. Mick 11 Apr, 2014 – 2:48 pm

    “At the very least could others express that they find them both tedious? I can’t be the only one?”
    One reason I come to this blog is to learn. A lot of my concerns are similar to Mary’s. If one of those concerns comes up in the news, there’s a good chance that Mary will research it and post a lot of background. This is valuable because I trust Mary. I believe I know where she’s coming from and that’s she’s not trying to deceive me. Matter of fact I’m not aware of even one of her many detractors ever suggesting that she’s not genuine in her beliefs.
    There are a few on this blog I find tedious – I just scroll past them. I don’t see why you can’t do the same, Mick.

    The main reason I find this blog valuable is because the conformity enforcers (thanks for the label, Sophia) sometimes discuss issues. I want my beliefs to be intelligently challenged, I want new information to be sceptically scrutinised before I accept it. If the COs knew how much they have helped me, they’d be furious …. damn, let the cat out of the bag. You’ll never hear me asking for them to be banned. Unfortunately, there are one or two subjects where the COs seem to think that it is their duty to derail debate, and any means, no matter how underhand, is justified. It angers me, and sometimes I fall into the trap of responding, when the COs use deception. I will try harder not to.

    And then there’s Habbabkuk. I used to think he was a variety of CO, but I’ve realised that it’s much simpler than that. He craves attention. That’s all.

  313. ESLO

    “many apologies”

    accepted

  314. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    11 Apr, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    “One reason I come to this blog is to learn. A lot of my concerns are similar to Mary’s. If one of those concerns comes up in the news, there’s a good chance that Mary will research it and post a lot of background. This is valuable because I trust Mary. I believe I know where she’s coming from and that’s she’s not trying to deceive me. Matter of fact I’m not aware of even one of her many detractors ever suggesting that she’s not genuine in her beliefs.”

    My thoughts exactly, A Node. Well said.

  315. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    11 Apr, 2014 - 5:04 pm

    Mod; Please approve moderated comment. The software is a mystery of keywords.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/disappearing-aircraft/comment-page-9/#comment-452239

  316. A Node

    CO ‘s? Should that not be CE ‘s, unless you meant CEO ‘s,

    Community Enforcers Overpaid?

  317. Ba’al Zevul

    “If cancelling debt and increasing aid have been a cash cow for some very wasteful and downright crooked NGO’s, and have leveraged access to poor countries’ resources for exploitative globalist companies, I have also to remember that geopolitics are of no interest to someone who is wondering where his next meal is coming from, or whether it will come at all. And his case has improved.”

    Yes, that’s the way the charity game works.

    It’s quite cruel that in treating the symptoms, we ensure the worsening of the disease.

  318. Guano
    ……….
    ……
    …………..
    …..desperately tries to invent a phrase for CO rather than admit to making mistake …. er ….. ummm ………..

    ………………..

    you’re right, I made a mistake

  319. Habbabkuk; “Not a peep on this matter from Mary, Ba’al Zevul, Herbie, Macky and the other vocalists”

    John doesn’t need troll-pack like support to defend from the likes of you & your equally inept fellow members of the yelping hyena pack.

    Mick; “At the very least could others express that they find them both tedious? I can’t be the only one?”

    I second (well third after Ben) A Node response to you;

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-2/#comment-452231

    A Node; “He craves attention”

    He certainly does, only problem being his self-rated “intellectual firepower”, clearly just doesn’t match his delusionally inflated belief of it.

  320. @John Goss
    “Conjunction appears on the blog. This is the day after I get some release from Habbabkuk using Habbabreak.”

    I have good news for you John. There is a new version of Habbabreak which allows you to hide any user you choose to! Yes that’s right. Nomatter how the name changes you can still hide them. Just add their name to the options list.

    It might update for you automatically. If not download it now.

  321. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 7:13 pm

    Macky

    Three of you after almost a whole day. Good going, keep it up!

  322. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 7:16 pm

    Ah, the mysterious Good Samaritan (aka Afrend) pops up again. Almost certainly one of the Eminences, afraid to use his usual handle in case someone goes cluck!..cluck!..cluck!.. :)

  323. New improved version 2 of Habbabreak Available Now

    Is it more than Habbabkuk getting up your nose? Want to hide comments by someone else? Then you are in luck. The all new, all singing and dancing version of Habbabreak allows you to do just that. You can now choose to hide comments by any person you like. Quickly and easily add a name to an options list and poof they are gone! You’re welcome.

    Still 100% safe and 100% effective. Completely free.

    Download it now!

    As recommended by John Goss, Nevermind and Ba’al Zevul. Thanks guys! Love ya.

    As used by others who remain silent (don’t be fooled by the install counter on the web site hosting the script – it doesn’t work).

  324. Afrend, great news. Will take a look tomorrow. Just one question. If I wanted to reinstate somebody, say to check on something, is it possible. Catch up soon.

    Love ya too.

  325. “Afrend, great news. Will take a look tomorrow. Just one question. If I wanted to reinstate somebody, say to check on something, is it possible. Catch up soon.”

    Can’t live with ‘em…can’t live without ‘em.

  326. @John Goss
    “If I wanted to reinstate somebody, say to check on something, is it possible.”

    Yes you can. Adding and removing anyone from the ‘People To Hide’ options list is easy as pie.

    Click the “Habbabreak Options” item that appears on the blog’s menu (across the top after “Invite Craig To Speak”). Then you can add and remove people to hide. Instructions included.

  327. @John Goss

    It is also very easy to temporarily disable the entire Habbabreak script if you do want to see everyone without resetting your “People To Hide’ options lists.

    On the Firefox menu go- Tools > Greasemonkey > Habbabreak

    You can untick (disable) either the Habbabreak script or Greasemonkey. Then you will see everyone. Retick it (enable) and everyone on your options list disappears! It’s all good with Habbabreak.

  328. @DoNNyDarKo

    I do hope you are using Habbabreak Donny. After all, it was your idea. I thank you. You are welcome!

  329. Afrend

    Many thanks! All I have to do now is install Firefox. Happening as I speak.

  330. Foolish dissenter

    11 Apr, 2014 - 8:35 pm

    1) You think the king / the leader is a shit but should you say it – what has it really got to do with you. If you accept the external norms, if you pay your taxes and say polite things and don’t express this is this so wrong? If you say the king / the leader is a shit so what? What has happened? If he really is a shit perhaps there is some immediate consequence e.g. if you live inThailand. What if 10,000 say the same? Big deal. So what? Does it make a change, or do you just get to feel good and that you are the moral side. Do people think Kiev happened because so many people thought they had a bad president or for other reasons? Our PR may say it was a popular protest and that is what happens when everyone speaks out. Really? Or was someone pulling the strings. From what I have read on this web site many posters seem to think there was a lot of manipulation going on (and throughout the arab spring). So what is the alternate, passive acceptance? No. I am not against speaking out, against protest, judicial process, but does it get us anywhere.

    2)You think the king / the leader is a shit you remember the thought, the feeling. You say nothing. Something somewhere will begin to change. You think I am a shit. Something will begin to change.

    Maybe not? Maybe.

  331. Habbabkuk; “Three of you after almost a whole day. Good going, keep it up!”

    Don’t sound so worried, as it’s not often I get enough free time; then again, perhaps I should make some extra time since it worries you so much.

  332. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 9:21 pm

    Macky

    “Habbabkuk; “Three of you after almost a whole day. Good going, keep it up!”

    Don’t sound so worried, as it’s not often I get enough free time; then again, perhaps I should make some extra time since it worries you so much.”
    ___________________

    Oh, you chump! Three people announcing their intention to use Habbabreak (Nevermind, Ben and you), not three posts from you. Don’t flatter yourself! :)

  333. Habbabkuk; “Three people announcing their intention to use Habbabreak (Nevermind, Ben and you)”

    Your weasel wriggling is causing to state lies, so who’s really a chump ?

    “Don’t flatter yourself!”

    If only you would follow your own advice, there would be need of a Habbabreak.

  334. I don’t normally bother to correct obvious typos, but when dealing which somebody desperate & disingenuous to state lies;

    “there would be NO need of a Habbabreak”

  335. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 10:17 pm

    Macky

    Half an hour for you to spot your typo and correct it?

    Just admit it, chump – you sneaked back to the thread and to your comment just to see whether or not I’d reacted to your post!

    You just can’t live without me, can you. LOL

  336. I have just seen the most appalling and blatant one-sided propaganda for Israel on the BBC 10pm News, a prime outlet for it. Nick Robinson is embedded with Miliband and his wife who are visiting Israel. They were shown at Yad Vashem and we were given again all the details of the holocaust including the fact that Miliband’s grandfather died in one of the camps. The couple were shown laying an enormous laurel wreath.

    The scene moved to Sderot which, we were told by Robinson, is the place where ‘rockets from Gaza rain down’ endangering even the children. Mrs Miliband said how awful it was especially as they have a four year old of their own.

    I think they moved on to somewhere else but, by this time, I had lost the thread.

    I heard Robinson quote Miliband, at the conclusion of the segment, as he greeted his relations, ‘This is who I am. This is what makes me tick’.

    So now we know for sure that if Miliband wins the next election, absolutely nothing will change vis-à-vis British governmental support for Zionist Israel.

  337. Habbabreak really improves the threads. My compliments to the author. Only problem is, it gives his interlocutors the look of daft people talking to themselves.

  338. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Apr, 2014 - 11:45 pm

    Mary (22h40)

    “I have just seen the most appalling and blatant one-sided propaganda for Israel on the BBC 10pm News” ..etc…

    ________________________

    How do you work that out against the background of what follows in your post?

    You describe a report on a prominent UK politician who’s visiting Israel and who visits Vad Yashem to lay a wreath. Understandable enough considering he’s Jewish and that one of his grandparents apparently died durng the holocaust. Given people’s general ignorance of history – even relatively recent history, understandabe also that the BBC should give some background on the holocaust.

    Miliband then visits Sderot, on which, we are apparently told, rockets rain down. Well, I suppose rockets don’t get fired at Sderot every day from Gaza, and one could question the verb “rain down”, but it is true that Sderot has been under fire – albeit intermittently – for a long time. Probably for as long as, and no less intermittently, than the Israelis have bombed Gaza.

    Then, after some more stuff which Mary can’t tell us about because “she lost the thread” (very convenient, that!), Miliband – a Jew and a politician with Prime Ministerial ambitions in an election which is due in a year’s time – is reported as expressing pride in his roots and paying tribute to them.

    Weighty stuff indeed, but not weighty enough, in my opinion, to justify either the charge of “appalling one-sided BBC propaganda” or Mary’s conclusion that “absolutely nothing will change vis à vis (sic)British governmental support for Zionist Israel”.

    Typical Mary tosh vis à vis (sic) her favorite hobby horse.

    ******************

    Support the shekel!

  339. Fucking Sickening Mary…The Absolute Lies LIES LIES LIES…of the criminals at bbc

    The scene moved to Sderot which, we were told by Robinson, is the place where ‘rockets from Gaza rain down’ endangering even the children. Mrs Miliband said how awful it was especially as they have a four year old of their own.

  340. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 12:19 am

    ELSO. .

    Re Gulag

    “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
    Leo Tolstoy

    Here’s one US’s way of doing Gulag-like stuff, “in it’s own way”.

    http://voices.yahoo.com/us-prison-population-largest-earth-2814625.html

    Here’s another,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

    And another,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site

    etc…

    You know this list could get quite long and that it refers to how the US behaves right now, not 80 years ago.

  341. Milliband is getting his application in early for the job of British PM.

  342. @Potlurk
    “Habbabreak really improves the threads. My compliments to the author.”

    Why thank you Potlurk, that’s very kind of you to say.

    Just to let you know that an even newer Habbabreak Version 3 packed with one new feature is just this moment ready for download!

  343. From Wiki:-

    “Sderot lies one kilometer (0.62 miles) from the Gaza Strip and town of Beit Hanoun. Since the beginning of the Second Intifada in October 2000, the city has been under constant rocket fire from Qassam rockets launched by Hamas and Islamic Jihad.[38] Despite the imperfect aim of these homemade projectiles, they have caused deaths and injuries, as well as significant damage to homes and property, psychological distress and emigration from the city. The Israeli government has installed a “Red Color” (צבע אדום) alarm system to warn citizens of impending rocket attacks, although its effectiveness has been questioned. Citizens only have 7–15 seconds to reach shelter after the sounding of the alarm. Thousands of Qassam rockets have been launched since Israel’s disengagement from the Gaza Strip in September 2005.

    In May 2007, a significant increase in shelling from Gaza prompted the temporary evacuation of thousands of residents.[39] By November 23, 2007, 6,311 rockets had fallen on the city.[40] Yediot Ahronoth reported that during the summer of 2007, 3,000 of the city’s 22,000 residents (consisting mostly of the city’s key upper and middle class residents) left for other areas, out of Qassam rocket range. Russian billionaire Arcadi Gaydamak organised a series of relief programs for residents unable to leave.[41] On December 12, 2007, after more than 20 rockets landed in the Sderot area in a single day, including a direct hit to one of the main avenues, Sderot mayor Eli Moyal announced his resignation, citing the government’s failure to halt the rocket attacks.[42] Moyal was persuaded to retract his resignation. ”

    Youngest casualty so far was two. When a new railway was built from Tel Aviv the station at Sderot had to be armour plated.

    Fifty-five rockets were fired into Israel on one day last month.

    For some people any report on Israel which doesn’t mention the Protocols of the Elders of Zion at least once is going to be dismissed as “biased”.

  344. @Potlurk
    “Only problem is, it gives his interlocutors the look of daft people talking to themselves.”

    Please excuse me, I forgot to mention what the latest feature is.

    You can now select to hide all comments which even mention Habbabkuk, nomatter who wrote them. It’s your choice. No more the impression of talking to themselves!

    And don’t forget you can choose which people you want to hide and show. The flexibility will reinvigorate your Craig Murray experience.

    Have a break with Habbabreak

  345. Dear me what a cheek for the Israelis to complain, don’t they realise the Palestinians are only firing rockets onto the land which was stolen from them.

  346. Wiki…

    Afrend is From MY Star… Vega…We are ALL Brilliant from that System Ye Know.

    This is Sweetness Though… BIG Time

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151875403860775

  347. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 1:11 am

    NEW HABBABREAK. IT REALLY REALLY WORKS!
    …AND IT’S SO KIND TO MY HANDS!!!

    Afriend. Go raibh maith agat. You’re the best!

    Potlurk. 10 47pm

    “Only problem is, it gives his interlocutors the look of daft people talking to themselves.”
    Yes, except that by the time a heckler has irritated you enough for you to feel motivated to use the software, you will also have a pretty good idea of the blog ecology and won’t need to read through any more of the bullshit than you choose.
    I think it’s great that you can flip it on and off just in case you need to remind yourself what “public diplomacy” or obsessive attention-seeking looks like.
    You might just want to dip back into it like a soap, to catch up with virtual family and friends, even demented old Uncle Habby in the corner.

    Now we can choose to be entertained as much or little as we wish as an antidote to the grimness we so often are focussing on by the nature of Craig’s blog. (Craig. Thanks so much for providing the space for these conversations to happen.)

    A Node says (4:42 pm)

    …The main reason I find this blog valuable is because the conformity enforcers sometimes discuss issues. I want my beliefs to be intelligently challenged, I want new information to be sceptically scrutinised before I accept it…

    And don’t they very effectively flag what issues need to have light shone on them.

    The whole heckler drama here reminds me of an Anti GM protest in the 1990′s where the locality, but not the location, of a test plot of GM Beet (beet family are wind-pollinated) had been announced. Adverts were published inviting people to a picnic at a local beauty spot, this was to be followed by a protest at the, as yet undiscovered, site. On the appointed day a single car drove around the area for half an hour till the massed police and security henchmen were located. The picnic happened after which a protest / party was held beside the security cordon.

    Thanks guys, now we know where to look.

  348. Kempe 12 Apr, 2014 – 12:33 am

    Bringing a little perspective to your post
    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/dissecting-idf-propaganda-the-numbers-behind-the-rocket-attacks.html

    “Conclusion
    It can be argued that numbers ultimately don’t matter: One death is a death too many; one rocket is a rocket too many. But if that is the case, why do the IDF and related Israeli agencies need to inflate or fabricate numbers? Why has the numbers game been the cornerstone of Israeli rhetoric about rockets, as depicted in these other recent IDF graphics:”

  349. Thanks, Brian, that is just brilliant. I rarely laugh out loud at video. Watched that 3 times and laughed harder each time. Priceless.

  350. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 1:27 am

    Missing sentence from last post…

    Isn’t looking daft a small price to pay for all the benefits of New Habbabreak?

  351. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 1:29 am

    Brian.

    Formula 1 link. Simple, funny and effective. Thanks.

    I’m away to bed smiling after that.

  352. BrianFujisan

    12 Apr, 2014 - 2:14 am

    Sofia / A Node

    glad to spread a wee bit of smiles aroon here… My beautiful daughter put it up first… i couldn’t Resist it

    Meant to say A Node… adding my Commendation of you’re Reply to Mick… Spot on Dude

  353. BrianFujisan

    12 Apr, 2014 - 2:32 am

    A Node

    Meant also to say cheers for that mondoweiss Link..Hadn’t seen that one before…Awesome site that.

  354. Habba,ESLO,Res Diss,Kempe…et al

    Do run along chaps…you’ve been handed your dinner by many posters this last 36 hours.

    Desperation has a smell fellas yeah?

    Quit while you’re waysssss behind yah?

    Thankees.

  355. Tip:

    Scottish Grand National…14-1…

    Roberto Goldbaek.

    Its from a good source but then again dont blame me if it fails…LOL

  356. Resident Dissident

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:40 am

    @SKN

    “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
    Leo Tolstoy

    I couldn’t agree more – so don’t make idiotic claims that the GULAG and the US Prison system are similar. Think of them as belonging to different unhappy families, similarly stop trying to attribute everything that goes wrong in this World to the same underlying cause. Even better give us a break and read the rest of Anna Karenina – good chap that old Tolstoy.

  357. Resident Dissident

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:44 am

    JIves

    Thank you for your post of 3.11am – the first I’ve seen from you that may have some content of value – unlikely but a I in 15 chance is rather better than the 1 in a million that is usually the case with your posts.

  358. Resident Dissident

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:53 am

    Must say that I enjoyed BF’s video link – it actually shows how effective protests can be made without resorting to the noisy yobbish street theatre antics that many people find threatening and consequently ignore what little message there may be.

  359. Resident Dissident

    12 Apr, 2014 - 7:07 am

    No sign of any apology from the chief Holodomor denier. Anyway following Craig’s lead for dealing with Holocaust deniers we have had the exposure, so I think it is now time for some gentle ridicule.

    I must warn anyone with small children or animals (you know the type that suffer on Bonfire night) to turn the volume down beforehand, there is a danger that any cats in the locality may wish to join in.

    https://soundcloud.com/john_goose

    (Apologies to Sue who can actually sing!)

  360. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=liberal

    Fair minded and consolidated.

  361. Afghanistan, one of BLiar’s theatres of war, is hardly referred to now by the medja. Remember the swamp of the propaganda – the processions of hearses through Royal Wootton Bassett, the setting up and the performances of the Military Wives Choir, Outside broadcasts from Brize Norton, the outpourings of Mesdames Caroline Wyatt and Lyse Doucet on ZBC and their equivalents in the press and other TV channels…..

    The MoD’s PR departments aka Media Operations Group must have been on overtime.

    We would never outright lie but…” “I wasn’t exactly Goebbels but I was conscious of…”
    Second army officer quits to reveal ‘human cost of Afghanistan’

    Paul Gallagher
    Friday, 11 April 2014

    A second Army officer has resigned his commission so he can publish an eyewitness account of the human cost endured by the British Army in Afghanistan.

    Former reserve Captain Christian Hill has written a book on his experiences with the Media Operations Group, where his main role was to “promote” the war to the public back home and give the appearance everything was under control. The reality, he claims in the book, was often very different.

    The Ministry of Defence was sent a copy of Combat Camera in December, when it told Mr Hill that his book, due to be published on 20 April, was subject to a 35-working day clearance review which has to be passed up the chain of command and its publication could be blocked. His request for clarification on any possible national security breaches went unanswered, so he quit his position.

    Earlier this week, Dr Mike Martin resigned his position as a Territorial Army Captain to enable him to publish An Intimate War, his own heavily critical account of British operations in Helmand.

    /..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/second-army-officer-quits-to-reveal-human-cost-of-afghanistan-9255145.html

  362. The Miliband piece on last night’s 10 pm news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04000mz/BBC_News_at_Ten_11_04_2014/ 13 mins in for 4 mins.

    Was it ‘news’?

    PS The wreath was laurel on the reverse but floral on its face. Does Israel send bills for the wreaths to the prominent people seen laying them at Yad Vashem? Probably not. All part of the propaganda machine. Miliband is off to West Bank today. He was seen in the piece with Netanyahu. Did the subject of the settlement building come up we wonder.

    The SNP gathering featured in the previous segment btw.

  363. Miliband’s timing is poor of course as the ‘talks’ have ended.

    From the US Jewish Voice for Peace http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

    “700 settlement units were announced in Jerusalem, and poof – that was sort of the moment.”- Secretary of State John Kerry

    Kerry’s latest statement: more honest than he intended? The US-backed peace process is faltering. What comes next?

    It wasn’t exactly poetry, but Secretary of State John Kerry’s testimony to Congress this week might go down in history as a real turning point in the last 20 plus years of US-orchestrated negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians. (1)

    For the first time— and despite later efforts to backtrack— a U.S. Secretary of State admitted it was the Israelis who are derailing talks.

    Kerry couldn’t have been more clear about the recent sequence of events that have driven these talks to the brink.

    First Israel refused to release the last group of Palestinian prisoners they had promised to free, then they announced construction of 700 new settlement units, and only then did the Palestinians announce that they would attempt to join 15 international human rights conventions.

    The US and Israel still vigorously criticized that move, which begs the question: what kind of “peace process” considers signing on to covenants promoting the rights of children, the disabled, and others a threat to peace? (2)

    Of course, unilateral Israeli actions to undermine peace go back much further.

    Since the Oslo Accords, the number of Jewish settlers on Palestinian land has more than doubled – to more than 650,000. (3) In fact, Benjamin Netanyahu campaigned for re-election on a promise of one million Jews living in “Judea and Samaria”. (4)

    Rather than hold Israel accountable, the United States has repeatedly rewarded the Israeli government whenever it violated the law or agreements, now fueling the occupation with $3.2 billion in annual military aid.

    The United States is indeed acting like a broker in these talks — representing Israel.

    The losers in this peace scam? The Palestinians most of all, but also every Israeli who wants a lasting and just peace. And every US resident who wants our tax money to be used for freedom and democracy, not occupation and apartheid.

    In truth, the terms Kerry and Israel set forth have nothing to do with equality – they’ll require Palestinians to sit at the back of the bus.

    But they give us an idea of what will be on the table should talks, which have proven to be an effective delaying tactic while Israel builds “fact on the ground”, limp along.

    They include an unprecedented demand that the Palestinian Authority recognize Israel as a Jewish state. That’s code for condemning Israel’s 25% of citizens who aren’t Jewish to second and third class status, and denying the internationally recognized rights of Palestinian refugees. (5)

    And the land being negotiated for a future Palestinian “state”?

    It looks more like the holes in a piece of Swiss cheese, thanks to decades of US-enabled settlement expansion. Put another way, whatever the rhetoric of a “two-state solution,” Israeli policies have already created a de-facto single state including all of Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and occupied East Jerusalem, albeit one built on the premise of separate and unequal lives for Jews and non-Jews. This is the very definition of apartheid.

    So what next?

    At Jewish Voice for Peace, we believe that the struggle for freedom and self-determination will end, like similar struggles in Northern Ireland and South Africa, at the negotiation table. But that can only happen when all parties can sit down together with equal power.

    Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world, the only nuclear arsenal in the Middle East, and the unconditional backing of the world’s sole super power. It is the 24th wealthiest country in the world. Meanwhile, the Palestinians across the table remain stateless, impoverished, occupied, or second-class citizens inside of Israel.

    But the balance of power is changing.

    And the engine of that change is the unstoppable movement of nonviolent resistance by Palestinians and their allies – including Jews of conscience – around the globe. Education, lobbying, the involvement of international legal bodies, demonstrations in the streets in Israel and Palestine, have all made a difference and will continue to grow.

    And where our governments have thus far failed us, more and more people everywhere have begun to stand up and use nonviolent, economic power to build pressure on Israel to do the right thing.

    The successes of the Palestinian-led nonviolent movement for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) are growing, with billions of dollars and major multinational corporations already impacted. That pressure has already been felt at this round of talks. Even Prime Minister Netanyahu mentioned BDS 26 times in his speech to AIPAC, the largest U.S. pro-Israel lobbying organization.

    The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement is the Palestinians’ Montgomery Bus Boycott.This movement for us as Jews is a form of tochecha, the Jewish tradition of sacred rebuke, which comes from a place of love and is the religious obligation to remind one’s friends to live by their values. It is also a nonviolent and principled way to liberate our own community from the dehumanizing role of oppressor.

    Can BDS really work? We think so. Israeli government officials agree. Israeli finance minister Yair Lapid warned that even a limited EU boycott could cost the Israeli economy over $5 billion dollars a year. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni put it even more directly: “The boycott is moving and advancing uniformly and exponentially…Those who don’t want to see it, will end up feeling it.” Already impacted, even Israel’s business elites are organizing to demand a negotiated agreement.

    Certainly, BDS is working better than any strategy has before. It’s a movement rooted in Palestinian civil society – women’s groups, trade unions, students – and so it has no leader that can be stopped. No single funder that can be cut off.

    It is fueled instead by the same love for justice, equality, and human rights that has fueled every successful justice movement the world has ever seen. Grounded in international law, it asks for an end to occupation, equality for the Palestinian citizens of Israel, and a just resolution for millions of refugees.

    Martin Luther King famously wrote in his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”:
    “You may well ask: ‘Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?’ You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue.”

    That is precisely what we are doing. And we ask you to continue to join us in this historic movement at this historic moment. So that all who live in Israel and Palestine, in whatever configuration both peoples choose, can live as equals, with the same opportunities to raise families safely, go to school, and build a future.

    Whatever happens in the coming days and weeks, we have turned a corner, and there’s no going back.

    Sincerely,

    Cecilie Surasky
    Deputy Director

  364. Sorry I could not give a link as the JVfP site has been corrupted. I copied the email.

  365. Mary, thanks for your article from Jewish voice for peace. It is good to know there are Jews of conscience working against the oppression. Ways and means are not out of our hands in dealing with Israeli illegality, and Birmingham City Council has found one way to put the pressure on. Not to renew the contract with racist oppressors.

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/veolia-warned-over-birmingham-contract-6946116

  366. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 9:35 am

    From Mary re Miliband’s visit to Israel and the Westr Bank

    “Miliband is off to West Bank today. He was seen in the piece with Netanyahu. Did the subject of the settlement building come up we wonder.”
    _________________

    In an effort to be helpful: if you’re really interested, you could try contacting Miliband’s office to ask?

    I think it’d probably respond, given that Miliband’s after your vote (you recently told us that you’d received an email from the Labour party)

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  367. Afrend 11 Apr, 2014 – 8:12 pm

    Afrend you are a real friend, a true friend to the decent people who come to this blog for enlightenment and sometimes find in its place a visible darkness. What a star you are. Thank you sincerely.

  368. Agree John.

    Yet more of Miliband on the BBC website under the Politics heading rather than World/Middle East.

    Three of the five large photos relate to the Yad Vashem visit so the title here is rather misleading. S/be Labour leader Ed Miliband visits Yad Vashem.

    Labour leader Ed Miliband visits Israel
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26986410

    Info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yad_Vashem

  369. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 9:48 am

    From a long quote by Mary

    “They include an unprecedented demand that the Palestinian Authority recognize Israel as a Jewish state. That’s code for condemning Israel’s 25% of citizens who aren’t Jewish to second and third class status, and denying the internationally recognized rights of Palestinian refugees.”
    ____________________

    I don’t know what the legal implications for Palestinian refugees of possible recognition by the P.A. of Israel as a Jewish state might be and so shan’t comment on that, but can someone explain exactly why and how such recognition would “condemn non-Jewish Israeli citizens to second and third class status”? Detailed info please, rather than mere general statements and rants.

    I ask, inter alia, against the background of comments which have appeared on this blog in the past, from the Iranian govt’s friends, that non-Muslims enjoy full political, economic and social rights in the Islamic republic of Iran as the country is officially named.

    Thank you.

  370. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 9:51 am

    Mr Goss

    “Afrend you are a real friend, a true friend to the decent people..etc,etc…”

    ________________

    Shouldn’t you be addressing your true friend by his usual/previous handle?

    Just askin’.

  371. John I meant that I agree with your previous comment on the JVfP message. Still not sure about the Habbabreak device though. Continuity is lost and in the end we could end up deleting all comments from everyone we had taken a dislike to so what would be the point of the blog. I just use the scroll button and ignore him and them.

    Also I think it is likely to heighten the illusions of superiority the t—–s already possess.

  372. Does BLiar the Quartet Envoy ever comment on Israel’s daily atrocities? One example here.

    Israeli police brutality video goes viral

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/358016.html

    An online video has emerged, showing Israeli police forces battering a Palestinian before attacking a protesting bystander.

    Ali Talhami suffered a broken arm and ribs after police officers repeatedly slammed a police car door on him, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Thursday.

    The video shows a police officer forcing Talhami into the police van with blows and then walking over to Majdi Dabah, who was standing nearby, before throwing him at the vehicle.

    Talhami was subjected to the acts of violence for refusing to pay up a heavy fine imposed on him by an inspector for leaving a refrigerator outside his store in East al-Quds (Jerusalem).

    “I explained the refrigerator was outside because we were returning it to the company, but the inspector started swearing at me,” Talhami said, adding that he was then attacked by a police officer accompanying the inspector before other police officers arrived and joined in on the beating.

    “After we reached the police station, they continued beating me,” said Talhami.

    “The policeman started beating Ali, and I told him not to,” Dabah said. “So he pushed me with my head into the window and then knocked me to the ground and beat me.”

    “My shoulder was dislocated and my head hurts,” Dabah said.

    http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2014/04/israeli-police-brutality-video-goes-viral/

    ~~~

    Tony Blair’s record in the Middle East is a sorry one – it’s time he quit
    It’s easy to see what the former Labour prime minister gets out of his role as Middle East envoy, but harder to see what he gives back
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/9806139/Tony-Blairs-record-in-the-Middle-East-is-a-sorry-one-its-time-he-quit.html

    It’s a joke. Look at the staffing. http://www.quartetrep.org/quartet/pages/about-oqr/
    BLiar had a luxurious suite in a Jerusalem 5 star hotel but was recently moved. Details of his salary and details of employment are unknown.

    Look at the answer {top right} to this written question.
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2010-1667+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

  373. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 12:14 pm

    “Tony Blair’s record in the Middle East is a sorry one – it’s time he quit
    It’s easy to see what the former Labour prime minister gets out of his role as Middle East envoy, but harder to see what he gives back
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/9806139/Tony-Blairs-record-in-the-Middle-East-is-a-sorry-one-its-time-he-quit.html

    It’s a joke. Look at the staffing. http://www.quartetrep.org/quartet/pages/about-oqr/
    __________________

    This might surprise some, but I would certainly agree with that view.

    He would do better to stick with writing and his lecture tours.

  374. Fred
    10 Apr, 2014 – 7:18 pm

    “It should be pointed ot that the word “marriage” doesn’t mean just the same thing in Muslim countries as it does in Britain. Just because two people are married it does not mean they are going to sleep together…”

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    10 Apr, 2014 – 7:25 pm

    “Fred”

    “That was an interesting post, thank you.”

    So Habbabkuk supports child marriage!!!

  375. “He would do better to stick with writing and his lecture tours.”

    And leave the warmongering to his family.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blairs-eldest-son-euan-in-the-frame-for-safe-labour-seat-in-bootle-9254905.html

  376. West Bank spitoon

    12 Apr, 2014 - 12:43 pm

    [This contributor is banned from commenting.]

  377. “So Habbabkuk supports child marriage!!!”

    I don’t think he said that, I certainly didn’t say I supported it.

    I just thought it necessary to point out the differences between east and west lest any racists decided to brand Muslims paedophiles. There is a great deal of hatred against paedophiles in the west, which is strange because unlike the east they have newspapers with pictures of half naked barely legal young girls on page three.

  378. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 1:04 pm

    Fred

    Yes, that’s correct; you have answered Mr Scorgie’s non-point.

    You were pointing out a cultural difference (which may well be a bit of a minority one in the Muslim world).

    A cultural difference which we in the West can’t do much about (whether unfortunately or not) as such ‘marriages’ take place outside our jurisdiction (unlike, for example, FGM occurring in the UK where something can and should be done).

  379. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 1:16 pm

    Fred

    ““He would do better to stick with writing and his lecture tours.”

    And leave the warmongering to his family.”
    ____________________

    I’d prefer it if none of his family went in for war-mongering. But more seriously, I take a very dim view of the creation of political dynasties (so to speak). That hasn’t really been a big feature of modern political Britain but there does seem to be a trend developing – not only in the UK but also in at least certain continental countries.

    Perhaps not a problem PROVIDED that local selection committees are left to choose wisely the best candidate from their own local perspective and are not interfered with by the central party organization. Which is probably illusory.

    The problem is also : should one visit the sins of the father onto the child? The answer is probably no, and judgement should be based (to the extent possible)on whether the shittiness of the father has been passed on to the child.

  380. “The problem is also : should one visit the sins of the father onto the child? The answer is probably no, and judgement should be based (to the extent possible)on whether the shittiness of the father has been passed on to the child.”

    Researches have found strong evidence that psychopathy is genetic.

  381. A Node

    Not having a dig at you, just at CEOs. Should they earn 10 times the salary of their least paid employee? Mrs Thatcher’s reforms to restore the UK to Victorian values are being continued by the incumbent shite at no 10. Why don’t the CEOs just take all the profits of the company and simply manage volunteers? Why don’t we pay companies to give us meaningful tasks to fill our spare time?

    In the only salaried job I have ever had, the CEO stuffed me by asking me to beat the quote of a contractor. There’s me scratching around on the internet for cheap kitchens while he was swanning around on 230K p.a.. A company has to pay the proper rate for professional contractors, not try and employ cowboys who mess the company about and lose you your job.

    A new breed of ultra arrogant, ultra ignorant managers have taken over the positions of the old middle-classes. That’s why when ever I heard the word reform, I know that it will mean new people sitting their bottoms on the seats of the present incumbents but more corrupt, more selfish and more ruthless than the first.

    You mentioned Community Enforcers. In the current climate I think it is extremely likely that the trolls are well-paid, salaried personnel of a private truthbashing company funded by HM government. ?50 grand plus for persistently disrupting a truthseeking operation like this?

    There is no need for companies to produce or do anything anymore. Their job is to consume taxpayers money by squashing the taxpayers freedom of speech and belief. Keynsian, Big Brother, NWO insanity. After Snowden it is no longer daft to suggest that the state is doing this.

    The only limit to state insanity is the limit of our imaginations to comprehend the scope of their evil. Hijacking MH370 and false-flagging other murderous attacks by Muslims like Boston and Woolwich enable them to create a version of Islam that is corporate, international and diametrically opposed to the spirit of truth and freedom of Islam. The war against Islam is not just by the mercenaries of AlQaida, but in the board rooms of global corporations.

    Power corrupts and anybody in possession of power at this moment of time is corrupt. The corruption is not yet absolute, but centuries of rebellion by Socialism against the previous corruption has been binned by the greed and selfishness of the precent generation. The wars of our last 20 years have been obvious enough for anyone with a moral compass of any kind to recognise the corruption of power. Yet they still swallow their principles to grab the cash being dangled in front of them.

    Do you think that ignoring the ignorant will make them go away?
    The lesson of history is that power must be cut from the hands of the greedy by word and sword.

  382. WEAPON’S of MASS DISTRACTION – like father, like son

    Tony Blair’s son Euan targets ultra-safe Labour seat in Merseyside…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2602920/Tony-Blairs-son-Euan-targets-ultra-safe-Labour-seat-Merseyside-close-mother-Cheries-childhood-home.html

  383. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 2:30 pm

    Ba’al Zevul

    I have long held the view that all Israeli governments past and present have always intended to expand Israel, over time, to create the Zionist vision of Greater Israel; that being the whole of historic Palestine.

    The Zionists want a one state solution; that being – one state from the Jordon River to the Mediterranean Sea for Jews only; their “promised land.”

    This view is backed by a new Zionist book:

    “The Israeli Solution, a One-State Plan for Peace in the Middle East” by Caroline Glick.

    It suggests that Israel should do to the West Bank what Prime Minister Begin did to the Golan Heights and Jerusalem by placing them under Israeli law and through that, Israeli sovereignty.

    The author says that Palestinians resident in the West Bank (after this de facto annexation) could apply for Israeli citizenship and if they are accepted they will be allowed to vote in elections and have equal rights. (How sweet)

    This land grab of the West Bank (or, as the author calls it, Judea and Samaria) would result in the Jewish population being twice that of the Palestinians thereby maintaining Israel’s Jewish character.

    Gaza does not feature in the plan because I think the population if included would weaken the built in Jewish advantage of the new Israel. Also, of course, no right of return for Palestinians refugees.

    A reviewer of her book has the following to say:

    “The Israeli Solution projects an alternative to the dangerous gamesmanship and perpetual war we have witnessed in the quest for a so-called two state solution. Yet, is it really wise to try to absorb a fiendish population – people mired in rage, mental instability, and rigid ideology – into one’s country?”

    “The expulsion of the Palestinian Arabs from Judea and Samaria, although not suggested in Glick’s book, would be much more effective in bringing peace to Israel. Yet, before doing so, an aggressive public relations campaign against the Palestinian Arabs is needed to counteract Arab and Soviet-era propaganda about Israel. This campaign would put the moral onus where it belongs – on the attitudes, beliefs, and behavior of the Arabs, who were and still remain, an implacable enemy.”

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14807#.U0WCi5tOUhk

    This confirms my belief that a two state solution was never really on the cards.

  384. Some truths about Rwanda, another one of BLiar’s areas of operation.

    I see the author (who has extensive knowledge of Africa) describes BLiar’s pal Kagame thus:

    ‘The United States, Canada, Britain and Israel wanted more of the African pie, and Paul Kagame was the man to get it for them.

    English-speaking ‘Tutsis’ who grew up in Uganda – Paul Kagame, James Kabarebe, Fred Rwigyema, Patrick Karegeya, Laurent Nkundabatware, and thousands of others – were the soldiers of Yoweri Museveni’s guerrilla army. They committed massive atrocities in Uganda, (1980-1985), where absolute terrorism was used to remove a socialist government run by an ungrateful Negro. The victims in Uganda were also blamed for genocide, turning the truth upside-down. This is how Museveni and Kagame – his director of military intelligence – brought Uganda back in line with the geopolitical dictates of the West: aka disaster capitalism. There was, of course, a lot of money to be made.’

    Real Rwandan Genocide and Brainwashing of the Western Mind
    by Keith Harmon Snow / April 11th, 2014
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/04/real-rwandan-genocide-and-brainwashing-of-the-western-mind/

    The other day I came across this photo of Hague and Angelina Jolie with their crocodile tears. That was Srebrenica.
    http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/04/18/angelina-jolies-campaign-justice-survivors-bosnias-mass.html

    This is the same pair in Rwanda last year.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/william-hague-and-angelina-jolie-visit-rwanda

    Before that, it was Darfur with George Clooney and Mia Farrow.
    Sudan describes actors Mia Farrow, Clooney as ‘ignorant’
    http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article31089

    These Ac-Tors make me sick.

  385. I wrote before about Welby’s son being given employment by BLiar at the ironically named Faith Foundation.

    The daughter-in-law has been there too. The FF seems like an incubator.

    ‘Dame Gail Rebuck, the publisher whose firm paid Blair a £4.6million advance for his memoirs, was appointed to the foundation’s board last year. Her daughter, Georgia, had worked as its website and online co-ordinator. And Suzanne Ashman, daughter of motor racing tycoon Jonathan and wife of Blair’s son, Euan, worked for the Foundation in 2009.

    Last year it was disclosed that the charity was being bankrolled by Ukrainian oligarch Victor Pinchuk, who gave it £320,000 — a fifth of all the donations declared in the relevant accounts.

    The Foundation declines to say how much it is paying Peter Welby.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2594735/SEBASTIAN-SHAKESPEARE-Archbishop-Welbys-son-given-plum-job-Blair.html

  386. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 3:28 pm

    Guano; Nice rant, as ever.

    Managers are like politicos, and the power associated with their position is corrupting, but only if they are weak as to character. Narcissism is more viral than ever. Self-interst drives most managers and they, like politicos are bureaucrats. Bureaucrats hold the company in high esteem only so far as it helps them move their own needles, and the so-called loyalty they display is more like a moral failing in that it is a superficial salute to themselves. Redundant layers of such persons suck all the air out of long-term bizness strategies, and feed the short-sell. End my own rant.

  387. guano 12 Apr, 2014 – 1:31 pm

    Quite agree with everything you say. When a nation changes its leader, we make a big deal of it, speculate on the character of the new incumbent and what effect it will have on his/her country and possibly our country. Nowadays, many companies are more powerful than many nations but there is no scrutiny, no speculation, no sanctions, no Geneva Convention. I might even make an argument that some countries are more powerful than any nation. Woe betide any country that stands up to Exxon Mobile or Shell, for example, whilst more shadowy companies like the Carlyle Group … well, who knows.

    I looked up the Forbes List of The World’s Biggest Companies. Interesting and revealing that 5 of the top 10 are banks, and another is an investment company. So 6/10 of the worlds biggest companies produce nothing, just manipulate money. Also interesting that it is two Chinese banks, ICBC and China Construction Bank, at number 1 and 2 spots followed by US bank, JPMorgan Chase at 3.

    By the way, you correctly corrected me when I used ‘CO’ insted of ‘CE’. My turn now. The acronym stands for ‘Conformity Enforcer’ rather than ‘Community Enforcer’.

  388. Correction to my post 2 above:

    I might even make an argument that some companies are more powerful than any nation.

  389. What You’re Saying About Habbabreak

    Ba’al Zevul: “Habbabreak – the season ticket for your train of thought.”

    Dreoilin: “Many thanks!”

    Fred: “You have created a weapon.”

    John Goss: “Thank you sincerely.”

    Nevermind: “Just joined the habbabreak club.”

    Potlurk: “Habbabreak really improves the threads.”

    Sofia Kibo Noh: “IT REALLY REALLY WORKS! …AND IT’S SO KIND TO MY HANDS!!!”

    Wow, thank you!

  390. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 3:54 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    12 Apr, 2014 – 1:04 pm

    “A cultural difference which we in the West can’t do much about (whether unfortunately or not) as such ‘marriages’ take place outside our jurisdiction (unlike, for example, FGM occurring in the UK where something can and should be done).”

    What about male genital mutilation carried out in the UK Habbabkuk?

  391. Fred at 1.24:

    ‘ “The problem is also : should one visit the sins of the father onto the child? The answer is probably no, and judgement should be based (to the extent possible)on whether the shittiness of the father has been passed on to the child.”

    Researches have found strong evidence that psychopathy is genetic.’

    I refer also to Habbabkuk’s comment to which this is a response.

    Habbabkuk: of course political dynasties are an old thing: for centuries the Roman Empire was run this way, every Emperor wanted his progeny to succeed him, the success rate was low because most of the kids got bumped off by political rivals.

    Another example was the great aristo families in this country during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

    Your suggestion, Habbabkuk, about local selection committees reminds me of Plato’s arguments about the ideal government in which candidates were weeded out as children and carefully nurtured, educated etc.

    I only mention these points because debate about ideal forms of government is not something I have noticed much on this blog. Its important to notice the faults and deficiencies of the system but I sometimes find myself wondering where people think the kind of change they want is going to come from.

    Regarding your point Fred about psychopathy: I worked for a number of years with people who had that label and I formed the clear impression that psychopathy was the result first and foremost of sustained childhood abuse, but I’d be interested in the research you mention.

    I’m not sure that in the medical sense someone like Blair or for that matter Hitler is a psychopath. I have read biographies of both characters and you wouldn’t obviously identify major abuse in their upbringing. Having said that of course it is not always obvious.

  392. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 4:33 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “What about male genital mutilation carried out in the UK Habbabkuk?”
    __________________

    What about it, Doug? What is it you’d like to know?

  393. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    Mary

    “The Foundation declines to say how much it is paying Peter Welby.’”
    ________________

    Of course I hold no brief for Peter Welby, but it might perhaps be good to point out that most companies and organizations would decline to give third parties information on how much their employees earned. It’s called data protection/protection of personal information.

    I’m sure that if I asked you – and the other Eminences – to tell me what your monthly income was, you’d quite rightly tell me to mind my own business. But feel free to prove me wrong, of course!

  394. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    “I only mention these points because debate about ideal forms of government is not something I have noticed much on this blog. Its important to notice the faults and deficiencies of the system but I sometimes find myself wondering where people think the kind of change they want is going to come from.”

    It’s a discussion of what ‘ideal form of government’ doesn’t include; a process of elimination that seems to suggest Capitalism doesn’t work in it’s present guise. If one is happy with the current form, more than likely you’re part of the problem, rather than the solution.

  395. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    Conjunction

    Thank you for that – interesting!

    Re the 18th and 19th century grand families, you’re right, but that’s why I specifically said something like “in modern British politics”; perhaps I should have been more precise and said “in 20th century British politics.

    Memory probably fails, but the only (entirely)post-WW1 examples that come to mind – at least as far as monisters are concerned – are the Heathcoat-Amorys (uncle/nephew) and the Brookes (father and son).

  396. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 4:49 pm

    “Monisters” – not monsters, ministers

  397. Write to the Daily Mail then. They said it.

  398. Neville Chamberlain was a nephew of Joseph Chamberlain who had been perhaps the chief instigator of the Boer war, and of course Churchill’s father had been a cabinet minister.

    It was a terrible problem in the Roman Empire, compounded by the fact that after about 150AD the military was totally corrupt and basically you couldn’t last six weeks as Emperor unless the praetorian Guard backed you.

    The praetorian Guard perhaps being the prototype for the military industrial complex we have now.

  399. Fred 12 Apr, 2014 – 1:24 pm
    “Researches have found strong evidence that psychopathy is genetic.”

    I would also like to know about this research.

    Here’s some related research: Which US President Was The Biggest Psychopath?.

  400. conjunction 12 Apr, 2014 – 4:32 pm

    “I only mention these points because debate about ideal forms of government is not something I have noticed much on this blog.”

    The most promising system of government I’m aware of was practised successfully until a couple of years ago. Under this system ….

    ∙Child mortality rates dropped from 70 per thousand live births to 19.
    ∙Life expectancy rose from 61 to 74 years of age.
    ∙Education was a human right and it was free for all citizens. The pupil teacher ratio in Libya’s primary schools was of the order of 17:1. If a citizen was unable to find employment after graduation the State would pay that person the average salary of their profession.
    ∙Health care was a human right and it was free for all citizens. The country had some of the best health care in the world. If a citizen neaded treatment that could be better supplied by another country, the government would pay to fly the citizen to that country and pay for his treatment.
    ∙Women’s rights were exemplary. Women had equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice. In secondary and tertiary education, girls outnumbered boys by 10%.
    ∙Essential consumer items were subject to strict price controls. For example, the price of petrol was around $0.14 per litre and 40 loaves of bread cost just $0.15.
    ∙ Free land and seeds were provided to anyone who wanted to farm
    ∙Each citizen had $500/month from the country’s oil revenue deposited directly into their bank account.
    ∙Each newly married couple was gifted $60,000 to do with as they please; furnish their home, take a holiday, honeymoon, buy car, etc.

    The system was Direct Democracy, and the country was Lybia.

    In 1977 the people of Libya proclaimed the Jamahiriya or “government of the popular masses by themselves and for themselves.” The Jamahiriya was a higher form of direct democracy with ‘the People as President.’ Traditional institutions of government were disbanded and abolished, and power belonged to the people directly through various committees and congresses.
    The nation State of Libya was divided into several small communities that were essentially “mini-autonomous States” within a State. These autonomous States had control over their districts and could make a range of decisions including how to allocate oil revenue and budgetary funds. Within these mini autonomous States, the three main bodies of Libya ‘s democracy were Local Committees, People’s Congresses and Executive Revolutionary Councils”

    Libya is no longer a direct democracy. Child mortality has rocketed. Life expectancy has plummeted. Education is only for the wealthy and privileged.Health care is practically non existent for the ordinary citizen. Women are 2nd class citizens, and girls no longer get education. Prices of food and fuel are beyond the reach of ordinary people and malnutrition is a major problem. No free land. No share of oil revenues. No state gifts.

    R.I.P. Muammar Gaddafi, a great man, brutally murdered for greed.

  401. Direct Democracy under Gaddafi:
    http://www.countercurrents.org/chengu120113.htm

  402. Words are just words Guano, lyrics that appease the mind with few exceptions such as ‘no’ -absolutely not, no way, not by any means.

    2013 was a bad year for the empire, the neo-conservatives wanted war in Syria to boot out the government of President Assad and the people in Britain said ‘no’ and of course Russian diplomacy averted that war which made the preemptive war mongers determined to get a/their victory against Russia with the help of the EU and escalating pressure from an expanding NATO.

    In the same way people can be effective by saying ‘no’ to the Western media that is continually regurgitating, spitting and spewing what is coming out of this British dictatorship and Washington.

    This media coverage has proved to be a corruption of facts, an omission of any detail that hinders their skewed contour, it is also a breach of trust by the 60-70% of those compliant or wrapped around the finger of words and pictures from so called solid, true blue dependable sources.

    This skewing of facts is the MO even witnessed here on CraigMurray, the techniques of the low ground, the subservient that divide and clutter Craig’s pages.

    ‘No’ can put us minions back in the saddle, it is only a jump up in consciousness.

  403. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 5:49 pm

    The very reason Qadaffi was eliminated. He took the West’s admonition to bring democracy to the ME more seriously than they intended. Stepping on their toes was unforgiveable.

  404. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 5:57 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    12 Apr, 2014 – 4:33 pm

    Mr Scorgie
    “What about male genital mutilation carried out in the UK Habbabkuk?”
    _________________
    “What about it, Doug? What is it you’d like to know?”

    Habbabkuk you are obviously against FGM. I asked for your view on MGM (male genital mutilation.

  405. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:06 pm

    Habbakuk if you don’t answer it’s no skin off my nose.

  406. “I would also like to know about this research.”

    Looking for stuff by Dr Robert Hare is a good place to start.

  407. A. Node

    Thankyou. I enjoyed reading your link.

    And yet, (Wikipedia):

    ‘Several foreign governments and analysts have stated that a large share of the business enterprise was controlled by Gaddafi, his family, and the government.[77] A leaked US diplomatic cable said that the Libyan economy was “a kleptocracy in which the government – either the Gaddafi family itself or its close political allies – has a direct stake in anything worth buying, selling or owning”.[78] According to US officials, Gaddafi amassed a vast personal fortune during his 42-year leadership.’

    and

    ‘In 2009 and 2011, the Freedom of the Press Index rated Libya the most-censored state in the Middle East and North Africa.’

    and

    ‘[The Revolutionary Committees occasionally kept tight control over internal dissent; reportedly, ten to twenty percent of Libyans worked as informants for these committees, with surveillance taking place in the government, in factories, and in the education sector.[91] The government sometimes executed dissidents through public hangings and mutilations and re-broadcast them on public television channels.[91][92] Up to the mid-1980s, Libya’s intelligence service conducted assassinations of Libyan dissidents around the world.’

    I am being devil’s advocate and I have deliberately picked out from the Wiki entry on the Libyan Civil War what seem to me the most damning criticisms of what was, as you say, in many respects apparently an ideal one party system. Wiki of course also says that the penalty for starting an alternative political party was death. The idea then I suppose was that the internal democratic structures worked well in many ways but you couldn’t criticise them.

  408. ” Churchill’s father had been a cabinet minister.”

    If you look further back you’ll find the odd slave owner or so as well, possibly even the odd slave.

    Then there is George Bush’s granddaddy Prescot.

  409. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:16 pm

    Mary (re Peter Welby’s salary)

    “Write to the Daily Mail then. They said it.”
    ____________________

    I shan’t do that, because I – unlike you seem to be – don’t care what his salary is.

    Furthermore – on a point of methodology – the Daily Mail may have said it, but you chose to bring it to our attention. So I feel quite justified in replying to you.

    *********************

    Buy GBP, USD and Israeli shekels!

  410. conjunction

    If you want to find criticism of Gaddafi and Lybia, it won’t be hard. Try the BBC website for starters.

    Better to see if you can refute any of the facts and figures I’ve given, and if you can’t, how does that square with the Wiki entry …. and what may we then deduce about Wikipedia?

    Saturday night beckons. I’ll pick this up tomorrow.

  411. “∙Child mortality rates dropped from 70 per thousand live births to 19. ”

    Compared to 5.3 per thousand in the evil indirect democracy capitalist UK and that’s one of the worst in the developed world.

    “∙Life expectancy rose from 61 to 74 years of age. ”

    Compared to 81 in the (see above) UK.

    Can’t be bothered to dismantle the rest but suffice to say that since Gaddafi’s overthrow, allegedly engineered by the west, the left have felt the need to remould the dictator as some kind of saint and Libya as something approaching utopia. The truth is that there was no democracy in Libya, salaries were low and the Gaddafi’s squandered most of the oil wealth on themselves.

  412. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:21 pm

    Conjunction

    “Neville Chamberlain was a nephew of Joseph Chamberlain who had been perhaps the chief instigator of the Boer war, and of course Churchill’s father had been a cabinet minister.”
    ________________

    Certainly, and this is why I wrote “the only (entirely)post-WW1 examples that come to mind..”

  413. A. Node

    I have no reason to question any of your figures. The wikipedia entry confirms many of the things you say. I am not trying to win an argument here I am simply drawing attention to some other reported facts about Libya.

    Habbabkuk

    Sorry,I misread your comment. Of course it’s endemic in the US now, perhaps its a thing that happens to countries when they’re cock of the walk.

  414. Kempe.

    Just got time to refute this:

    “Can’t be bothered to dismantle the rest but suffice to say that since Gaddafi’s overthrow, allegedly engineered by the west, the left have felt the need to remould the dictator as some kind of saint and Libya as something approaching utopia. ”

    Before NATO and the U.S. started bombing Libya, the United Nations was preparing to bestow an award on Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, and the Libyan Jamahiriya, for its achievements in the area of human rights.”

    http://libyanfreepress.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/

    BTW, “can’t be bothered” …. really?

  415. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:35 pm

    Breaking:

    Palestine accepted to Geneva Convention

  416. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:37 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “Habbabkuk you are obviously against FGM. I asked for your view on MGM (male genital mutilation.”
    and
    “Habbakuk if you don’t answer it’s no skin off my nose.”
    __________________

    You aren’t really interested in my view, but I’m happy to give it to you.

    I am opposed to FGM and am neutral on the question of male circumcision. This view is based on what I understand medical opinion to be, namely that FGM causes (and is probably practised because ) loss of sexual pleasure during intercourse when the girl has grown up, whereas male circumcision doesn’t. Indeed, some would go so far as to claim that the guy with the circumcised penis is the better cocksman (less prone to premature ejaculation and so on). My view arises out of the belief – which I do hope you share, Doug, that women have the same right to sexual pleasure as men.

    BTW, I believe you may have quizzed me on this before. Do you have a personal interest in the question of male circumcision (you may have been circumcised as an infant and now wish you hadn’t been, or vice-versa) by any chance?

  417. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:39 pm

    Kempe
    12 Apr, 2014 – 6:19 pm

    “…Gaddafi’s overthrow, allegedly engineered by the west…”

    Allegedly ???

  418. doug scorgie

    12 Apr, 2014 - 6:53 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    12 Apr, 2014 – 6:37 pm

    “I am opposed to FGM and am neutral on the question of male circumcision. This view is based on what I understand medical opinion to be, namely that FGM causes (and is probably practised because) loss of sexual pleasure during intercourse when the girl has grown up, whereas male circumcision doesn’t.”

    It does if the boy’s glans is cut off accidentally Habbakuk, as has happened or when a boy dies during the procedure.

    “All babies deserve genital integrity and autonomy over their bodies. No one has the right to make a decision for a child to alter his body for non-medical reasons, including religion.”

    “Religious Freedom does not give one the right to mutilate someone else’s body, even if that person is their child.”

    http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

  419. Doug scorgie; “Allegedly ???

    Surely you know that the “Contarians” live in a counter-factual reality from the rest of us.

    I know that it’s hard to resist fighting the good fight, as a fellow sufferer of the same temptation, I wonder if at least you would agree with me that of all the “Contarians”, it has to be the one with the least to offer as a worthwhile challenge, who is also the most vocal, namely Habbabkuk ?

  420. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 8:56 pm

    Is it all beginning to unravel?

    “13:57 GMT:

    Donetsk special forces have supported the anti-Maidan activists, RIA Novosti reported. “We won’t use force against peaceful protesters and we won’t obey Kiev authorities because we don’t know who is legitimate there,” said a member of the special forces who arrived at the Donetsk administration building blocked by anti-Maidan protesters.”

    More Ukraine Turmoil Live Updates,

    http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/

    Yes, I know there’ll be howls about this link, but I don’t see claims made here that later get refuted, like pictures of Russian tanks moved in time and space into Ukraine (Some bloody invasion!) and all the other inventions on our dear corporate media.

    I know the narrative we are supposed to accept is about AGGRESSION by Putin (Prince of Darkness).

    But

    Let’s give a bit of credit to the masses of people in Ukraine who are conscious enough to know that fascists have been through Europe and Russia before* and are willing to assert their right to self determination?

    If Svoboda-like gangs controlled the Houses of Parliament would our conformity enforcers insiting on obedience to their dictats and bad-mouthing the citizens of Birmingham and Liverpool when they peacefully take control of their own city halls and demand a referendum?

    *Even our official school history acknowledges that the last batch of fascists got to be a bit unpopular.

  421. Once again the facts have become distorted. What the UN was going to do was create a human rights award in Gaddafi’s name which is akin to a Nigel Farrage award for European of the Year.

    http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2011/10/20/un-should-apologize-for-legitimizing-gaddafi-with-key-posts/

    Amnesty International’s 2010 report on Libya; the usual story of detention without trial, torture, disappearances and oppression we’ve come to expect from despotic regimes.

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE19/007/2010/en/65e2d9ca-3b76-4ea8-968f-5d76e1591b9c/mde190072010en.pdf

    Sadly things don’t appear to have improved very much but then they’ve not collapsed from the near-utopian state sometimes claimed. it’s also interesting to see the how perceived opinion of the Arab Spring has been manipulated from it being a grass roots uprising, a force for good that even St Julian once tried to claim credit for, to an evil CIA/NWO plot but I suppose as soon as idols of the looney left such as Gaddafi started to fall that was going to be inevitable.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/27/julian-assange-obama-arab-spring

  422. Anode,
    Human nature can be malignant,contrived for gain weak willed,stubborn or the preferred infinitely stupid.
    Either way we are messing up.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/libyas-water-wars-and-gaddafis-great-man-made-river-project/5334868

  423. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:03 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    ““I am opposed to FGM and am neutral on the question of male circumcision. This view is based on what I understand medical opinion to be, namely that FGM causes (and is probably practised because) loss of sexual pleasure during intercourse when the girl has grown up, whereas male circumcision doesn’t.”

    It does if the boy’s glans is cut off accidentally Habbakuk, as has happened or when a boy dies during the procedure.”
    _________________

    Obviously.

    But I think we have got rather a long way away from the original point of this sub-thread, which was about child marriage (Iraq). Moreover there’s little point in replicating an exchange on male circumcision which took place on this blog a few months ago, if memory serves.

  424. Sofia Kibo Noh

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:03 pm

    Here’s a video of Right Sector’s Dmitry Yarosh commanding “…all arms of the Right Sector to fully mobilize and get ready to take decisive steps to defend Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

    “I call upon the Ukrainian security forces not only to refrain from counteracting the Right Sector, but also help [the party members] to bring legal order to the Ukrainian land…”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBsLnR4BNk

    I wonder how Ukriane’s police and military are going to answer.

    And here’s how another US coup unravelled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id–ZFtjR5c

    This 2002 documentary about the April 2002 US sponsored coup which briefly deposed Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.

    A television crew from Ireland’s national broadcaster, RTÉ happened to be recording a documentary about Chávez during the events of April 11, 2002. Shifting focus, they followed the events as they occurred. During their filming, the crew recorded images of the events that they say contradict explanations given by Chávez’s opposition, the private media, the US State Department, and then White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer.

    The documentary says that the coup was the result of a conspiracy between various old guard and anti-Chávez factions within Venezuela and the United States.

    All the usual ingredients are here including snipers. It all falls apart when the Venezualan army refuses to obey orders from the coup leaders. Worth watching for the body language alone.

  425. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:27 pm

    Whether it is Venezuela, or Ukraine, or Libya, the vast resources of the Western Democrats seek to undermine social progress out of a jealous and and disingenuous plea for reforms that reach the low-bar of democratic republics of the western world.

    http://cuslar.org/2014/03/13/us-role-in-2014-venezuela-uprisings/

    “Furthering the chasm between the two governments were allegations of U.S. involvement in the 2002 coup d’état that ousted Chávez for two days. While certain details remain sketchy, according to the U.S. State Department’s Office of Inspector General it was “clear that U.S. assistance programs provided training, institution building, and other support to individuals and organizations understood to be actively involved in the brief ouster of the Chávez government.” Furthermore, the Bush Administration had advance knowledge of the coup but then denied that knowledge when it occurred, claiming it was not a coup at all. Though Chávez regained power, the trend of the United States distributing democratic aid to those who have opposed the governments of Chávez and Maduro has continued into the Obama administration. This year alone, Obama earmarked over 5 million dollars to support political competition building efforts in the Bolivarian state. A Wikileaks cable has revealed that organizations such as USAID spent over $450,000 a year to provide opposition political parties information on how to design, plan and execute of electoral campaigns.”

  426. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:32 pm

    Conjunction

    “Your suggestion, Habbabkuk, about local selection committees reminds me of Plato’s arguments about the ideal government in which candidates were weeded out as children and carefully nurtured, educated etc.

    I only mention these points because debate about ideal forms of government is not something I have noticed much on this blog. Its important to notice the faults and deficiencies of the system but I sometimes find myself wondering where people think the kind of change they want is going to come from.”
    _______________________

    I’ve just remembered that I wanted to make two points in relation to what you wrote (excerpt above).

    1/. Re local selection committees. I wonder, actually, whether a good way forward for selecting a candidate MP might not be some variant on the American system of primaries. Such a system if cleverly thought out, might just be conducive to removing selection power from both the central party organization and the local selection committees and might give local voters greater possibilities for not accepting the foisting onto them of a candidate such as the young Blair.

    2/. There has been some discussion of ideal forms of govt (with specific reference to the UK) on this blog, but as you note, not much. I suspect this is because any such discussion is unsustainable, with most of the regular posters soon reverting to their pet themes which tend to focus on foreign policy. In the same way as it’s said that govts facing difficult internal problems will attempt to switch attention to events taking place overseas, so most of the regular posters here hasten to abandon discusssion of events within the UK for the greater attraction of events overseas (Middle East, Venezuela, latterly Ukraine/Russia). This is so because it is intellectually easier to have a good rant about things one doesn’t really know very much about, over which one has no influence at all and on which any challenge from others of a different opinion can be more easily brushed aside, than to discuss seriously and in detail events at home (including systems of governing) where opinions expressed and solutions proposed can be more easily and more rigorously tested and indeed contested.

  427. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:33 pm

    The Western compulsion to impose a form of godless theocracy, worshipping the Golden Calf of materialism is no different from Zionism, another discredited vision of religious fervor enabled by the masses, wholly dumb-fucked by those who should know better. God bless the terminally ignorant.

  428. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 10:34 pm

    “local selection committees…”

    yup. That’ll do it.

  429. Fantastic post ANode….re Libya…Cheers… Fucking still breaks my heart what the Evil cnts did to that country…and the Means employed…evil brutality of it all…and not forgetting Cameron’s war crimes…

    another video for ya…i came across this about 2 years ago

    …gaddafi driving though tripoli….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorKTwkFPDU

    Time for a wee Dram.. Wee Tip.. i see Peter Gabriel is LIVE on Sky arts 1 at midnight..

  430. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 11:07 pm

    ‘A wee ‘dram’, Brian? I think we deserve a bit more.. :)

  431. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 11:11 pm

    Peter Gabriel, the true genius of Genesis.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g93mz_eZ5N4

  432. So what is the US going to do, now that the Snowden revelations have shone a real light on to international relations.
    Putin must have foreseen this to happen when he first set eyes on Snowdens revelations, it was obvious that the truth, after decades of cold war bollox was going to seriously stifle international relations.

    Combine this with our putrid actions in eastern Europe on behalf of NATO and on behalf of Ukraine’s so called bid to join the EU, not that they wanted to agree any terms, just join, what of Germany’s interference due to its dependency on Ukraines gas network, all this will cause enough diversion and disonance to let Putin get away with it.

    I do not doubt that there are some Russians who are less rabid and involved in oligarchski jet setting and robbing Russia blind than Putin, but his bishop has definately knocked out a queen.

    What could be done? well our bankers/freemasons and owl worshippers would seriously consider printing more money for war if its could be done in secret, but it can’t.

    So we accept that Craigs options to split the country was not a bad, but a necessarry solution, whoever is in charge….

    BTW.just to verify a claim that SA is not in Europe or news for that matter, BBC, this case has got a great value for all those 107 studying mental deviants, possibly, it is not news but BS, merely another manifestation that, as a diversion, you are feeding us tabloid BS, TV and Radio, to manipulate and distort the internal political agenda.

    The Beeb should loose its franchise, be broken up and investigated by, I suggest, the icelandic police, for all its cover ups and bias, they seem to get bankers into their rightfull and safe positions, i.e behind bars, reading about our police today.
    If they only would give as much personal sensual attention to those who pay for their well fed and good looks, as they are giving to massaging crime figures, then this might register in communities/society and improve the crime figures some more, nudge nudge wink wink, and, wow, we have ‘ze positive feed back loop’, howzat…. meen uwe Seeler? or was that vuvuzela…..tut tut

  433. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 11:22 pm

    Which brain area do you ascribe to?

    “But the brain imaging also yielded surprises.
    During the behavior-evaluation exercise, people with high justice sensitivity showed more activity than average participants in parts of the brain associated with higher-order cognition.
    Brain areas commonly linked with emotional processing were not affected.
    The conclusion was clear, Decety said: ‘Individuals who are sensitive to justice and fairness do not seem to be emotionally driven.
    ‘Rather, they are cognitively driven.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2601994/Do-supersense-justice-Researchers-individuals-react-far-strongly-say-using-head-relying-emotion.html#ixzz2yiJVe34y
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  434. Ben Thank you… the man is a Huge source of Humanity…

    AND lets go RICH then…

    http://www.bbook.com/enjoy-a-shot-of-cognac-for-6000-squire/

    Sláinte

    AND GAbriel …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1IxE6z1tjo

    nevernind are you still in scotland august be great to catch up again

  435. Habbabkuk

    As far as I’m concerned your points are well made.

    I certainly think different kinds of issues emerge during primary campaigns than in the final runoff in the US election. Time consuming and expensive though I suppose.

    For me though the biggest issue about forms of government is to do with the relationship between government and capital.

    It was noted earlier in this thread by someone that many companies are more powerful than all but the two or three most powerful nations.

    I think it was Gordon Brown, or possibly Blair, who described how he felt quite impotent faced with executives from BP or Shell at the time of the dispute about petrol prices a number of years ago and how the businessman treated him with contempt, not out of any political viewpoint but because he was ‘only’ a prime minister.

    Despite this the business world is full of people who think that government still has too much control over the business world: these are the views of Friedman and Hayek.

    I wonder if governments try to exert the wrong kind of control over the business world. Perhaps if they concentrated on promoting the rights of individuals, for instance setting maximum as well as minimum wages, and forcing businesses to cooperate with regional assemblies which highlight the differing needs of different regions, then the actual essential dynamic of the capitalist process might be less problematic.

    Plato didn’t think much of democracy. He wrote after the disaster of the war with Sparta, where an indisciplined form of democracy, which in its earlier more structured incarnations had brought enormous success to Athens, eventually led to its destruction.

    In the modern world of course democracy in the west has emerged over several hundred years now and is highly structured. This brings its own problems but in general terms I still think its the way to go.

    I agree with you about foreign countries. I find it very hard to make judgments especially about countries I’ve never been to.

  436. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    12 Apr, 2014 - 11:41 pm

    99-year anniversary of a Great One’s death, coming up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Abraham_Lincoln

  437. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:46 am

  438. Sofia Kibo Noh

    13 Apr, 2014 - 1:40 am

    Large crowds of Ukrianian citizens who have surrounded and occupied police headquarters and government buildings in Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Kharkov, Donetsk, Krasny Liman, Lugansk, Slavyansk. The are illegally preventing the new government from comitting violent acts for which they have no mandate. Their unjustified actions are condemned by western leaders and coup sponsors for threatening the constitution and integrity of Ukraine, so lovingly protected by Right Sector.

    Commissioner Yevgeni Lyobotomko warned that pro-referendum crowds are acting illegally and need to do as they are told before the situation gets out of control. “Only another three cities and Svoboda’s statistician will be overwhealmed. It is only legal to storm government buildings if Victoria Nuland is paying you. And anyway they’re just copying us. It’s just so unfair!”

    Ben, Brian.

    Stay inside, the Russians are coming!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXXGep9RB34

  439. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:57 am

    At little antidote for those such as Sofia who so willingly swallow the propaganda put out by Putin.

    http://imrussia.org/en/projects/political-prisoners/709-russias-political-prisoners-denis-lutskevich

  440. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:04 am

    Shhh! let’s not talk about Mr Putin’s friends – we even had a little outbreak of support for Jobbik here

    http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ames-europes-far-right-is-embracing-putin-2014-4

  441. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:08 am

  442. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:19 am

    The same concerned citizens of the Crimea now appear to be turning up in Sloviansk

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/454956073502261249/photo/1

    BBC journalists are also having their cameras confiscated so that the memory cards can be wiped.

  443. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:33 am

    For those of us who might prefer sources of information other than RT as to what is happening in Slaviansk.

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/454956073502261249/photo/1

    More local militia in Krematorsk

    https://twitter.com/roman_primorye/status/455143302275149824/photo/1

  444. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Tn_wtGrng

    Lizzie Phelan on Libya.

    Global system with a less than global diplomatic discourse.

    We have the ease of ability to fully communicate but what is chosen is geopolitical.

    “Fuckin’. Give it here!”

  445. Sofia Kibo Noh

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:57 am

    Timeline. 08 44.

    Commissioner Yevgeni Lyobotomko warned the Ukrainian public to avoid three men in uniform with guns. “The entire Red army has appeared in two photos. There is no knowing the full extent of their evil intentions. Authorities in a bunker in Kiev fear they will pose again. We owe this new information to the dedication of the fearless war correspondent Rhostislav Dysidinko who twice risked having his tea go cold to bring these images to the free world.”

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/454956073502261249/photo/1

  446. Mr Branson’s giant advertorial for Virgin Money has just started on BBC 1.

    So generous here

    http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/giving/about-us/how-we-compare.jsp

    but charges the charities instead

    http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/giving/about-us/fees.jsp

  447. Much earlier BBC News went live to Kuala Lumpur for what they said was an important press conference about the search for the missing flight.

    It turned out it was the same spokesman we keep seeing, the defence minister Hishammuddin Hussein, but he was speaking about this exhibition opening tomorrow. He was boasting about the thousands who were taking part and attending and paid special thanks to the US delegation led by a General. The BBC presenter shuffled his papers and the transmission ended abruptly.

    Welcome to DSA 2014.

    The Global Defence Services and Government Security Event!

    Hosted, Supported and Co-Organised by the Malaysian Government.

    Coming off the back of the extremely successful DSA 2012, we are already deep in planning the BIGGER and BRIGHTER DSA2014 show. We will be updating the site regularly to keep you informed of what is in store for you in 2014.

    http://www.dsaexhibition.com/images/DSA2014logo.png
    I like the doves of peace there placed above the silhouettes of weapons of war.

    I see we are in the list of attendees and are placed between Ukraine and the US!
    http://dsaexhibition.com/docs/DSA2014_VVIP_Master_Website1.pdf

  448. Ms Power (aka Mrs Susstein) is temporarily not bovvered about Ukrainian events. Too busy attending the baseball with the old croaker, the war criminal Kissinger.

    https://twitter.com/AmbassadorPower/status/454467914419429377/photo/1

  449. Sofia Kibo Noh

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:33 am

    Rhostislav Dysidinko. 8 33am

    “For those of us who might prefer sources of information other than RT as to what is happening in Slaviansk.”

    I’m sure you can grow a neurone to help you sift the truth from RT News, but if that’s too scary here’s another source from the right side of the Atlantic. The Evil Red Army is at it again!

    “…Several days ago three masked men gave Kiev an ultimatum that if by April 5th the Kiev authorities do not announce a national referendum about federalization of Ukraine, the People’s Army of the East will start the national uprising…”

    From, https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/breaking-south-east-of-ukraine-on-fire-kharkov-donetsk-lugansk-nikolaev-want-independence/

  450. Lizzie Phelan? You must be desperate! The woman whose reporting from Libya was the subject of two upheld complaints to OFCOM. She who described Libyan rebels as “counter revolutionaries” and stated that “90% of the tribes in Libya are supportive of the government”. Who supported the deportation of foreign journalists who upset the government and who denounced rebel advances on Tripoli as “misinformation” right up until the last.

    She was one of several western journalists held captive by Qaddafi’s forces prior to the fall of Tripoli but appeared on a Skype interview on Russia Today claiming she was being “protected” by the government and that gunfire was really celebratory fireworks because the rebels had been defeated!

    Yup, accurate, dispassionate and utterly unbiased!

  451. “I think it was Gordon Brown, or possibly Blair, who described how he felt quite impotent faced with executives from BP or Shell at the time of the dispute about petrol prices a number of years ago and how the businessman treated him with contempt, not out of any political viewpoint but because he was ‘only’ a prime minister.”

    I believe Ted Heath got a similar shock back in 1973 when he expected BP to give the UK priority when it came to allocating oil supplies during the crisis of that year. They refused point blank citing commitments they had in other countries.

  452. I forgot to mention that that bastion of human rights, Bahrain, is attending the KL arms fest. Their representative is one of the Al Khalifa lot, probably all known to our political and regal representatives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Khalifa

    All the usual suspects here including the subject of this thread seen walking al Khalifa through his home which looks very grand and worthy of a self-aggrandizing war criminal.

    ‘In July, 2002 Britain’s Prime Minister Tony Blair walked al-Khalifa through Blair’s London residence.’ photo

    US-European backed Bahrain regime tortures, murders critics
    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_62774.shtml

  453. LOL, Kempe. Reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister. I guess that if you are “media” being protected by a dying regime with opposition troops approaching, you have to say what they want you to. Whatever happened to that Iraqi Information Minister, I wonder…

  454. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorKTwkFPDU

    Same propaganda we had earlier. Most of it so obscure it’s difficult yo verify either way, Gaddafi may have left his old dad living in a tent until he died while he housed the rest of Libya, as he was a nomadic shepherd it may have been how he wanted it but as Mummar owned property worth at least £1 billion in the UK alone and had an Airbus A340 as his personal jet I’d have thought it a tad unlikely.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/22/gaddafi-libya-oil-wealth-portfolio

    http://www.globalwitness.org/library/£10m-house-expensive-london-suburb-recovered-libya

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ba9ItsdxqY

    http://www.corporatejetinvestor.com/articles/selling-a-vip-business-jet-to-muammar-gadafi/

  455. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 11:57 am

    Mary

    “Ms Power (aka Mrs Susstein)…”
    ______________

    Actually she’s married to Professor Cass Sunstein, which makes her aka Mrs Sunstein.

  456. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:01 pm

    Kempe

    ““I think it was Gordon Brown, or possibly Blair, who described how he felt quite impotent faced with executives from BP or Shell at the time of the dispute about petrol prices a number of years ago and how the businessman treated him with contempt, not out of any political viewpoint but because he was ‘only’ a prime minister.”

    I believe Ted Heath got a similar shock back in 1973 when he expected BP to give the UK priority when it came to allocating oil supplies during the crisis of that year. They refused point blank citing commitments they had in other countries.”
    ___________________

    Your recollection is correct. The Chairman of BP asked Heath to give the instruction in writing, and Heath, citing the problems that this would cause with the UK’s new European Communnity partners said “you know very well that I can’t do that”. To which the Chairman of BP replied “well then I won’t do it”.

  457. ” Whatever happened to that Iraqi Information Minister, I wonder… ”

    Yes the state of denial is very similar.

    http://news.sky.com/story/181082/the-best-of-comical-ali

    Comical Ali was arrested post war but realised without charge and now lives in the UAE.

  458. Foolish dissenter

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:07 pm

    The talk of PM and business reminds me when at the outset of WW1 the City’s insurers’ were asked if they proposed to pay out for German battle ships which we sank and they said but of course.

  459. Yes, agreed, Foolish Dissenter, but didn’t the game change when 1) Margaret Thatcher changed UK law to allow the government to be able to interfere with organisational bank accounts 2) Brown did something similar regarding banks and “terrorism”, which caused to farce of the Icelandic bank’s assets being frozen in about 2009. Presumably, Heath didn’t have the “balls” to get government to interfere in the normal working of business, but since the Thatcher-Reagan era big business and government have become more intertwined. In my opinion, Heath would have been right not to try to intervene in BP’s affairs, and Thatcher’s sequestrations started the slippery slope, which has of course led to bank accounts being frozen all over the place… This is to some extent speculation, and I’m happy to be corrected on the facts, so fellow contributors please educate me…

  460. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:20 pm

    Developments in Ukraine/Russia

    There is a lot of ill-concealed glee on this thread about the latest developments in eastern Ukraine.

    On the basis that the posters concerned (1) wish the best for the people of Ukraine and (2) wish the best for Britain and the British people (if not its govt), I invite them to share their thoughts with us on the following:

    in which way do they see the latest developments in eastern Ukraine as being to the benefit of the Ukraine/Ukrainian people and/or to the benefit to Britain and the British people?

  461. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:37 pm

    Foolish Dissenter

    Your anecdote about the battleships of the Imperial German Navy having been insured with British insurers is a little surprising. It does seem odd that a state would insure part of its military apparatus (rather than self-insuring) and that it would do so with a foreign insurer.

    But I’m sure you know what you’re on about. Could you possibly supply us with sources and links so that I can look into this in more detail?

    Thank you.

  462. Sofia Kibo Noh

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:39 pm

    Timeline. 12 03

    Commissioner Yevgeni Lyobotomko has assured journalists that the huge crowds gathered across Eastern Ukraine are only “…out to enjoy the spring sunshine and welcome the re-emergence of fascism in their country…”

    Meanwhile witnesses report the entire Red Army entering Івана Кафе for Дерево миски борща и кофе

    http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/

  463. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 12:45 pm

    Further to Mary’s indirect mention of Professor Cass Sunstein, I’d recommend a careful read of the biography and outstanding career of this most interesting and distinguished lawyer, which you can find on Wikipedia. He sounds like a very good, intelligent, liberal and humane guy.

  464. The typo king corrects one of my typos. LOL.

    Mrs SuNStein is as liberal and humane as her husband then.

    ‘But the agenda of the humanitarian hawks seemed off the radar as the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan deepened. Bringing human rights and democracy to the Middle East with bombs and bayonets was increasingly seen as a delusional folly. Foreign policy realism, not human rights, ascended in mainstream thinking. Power gained prominence as a national security strategist nonetheless, writing a comprehensive 2007 New York Times review of current books on military doctrine. While carefully separating herself from President George W. Bush’s policies in Iraq, she endorsed the Army and Marine Counterinsurgency Field Manual associated with Gen. David Petraeus and co-produced with Power’s close colleague Sarah Sewall at the Harvard Center for Human Rights. Power believed that counterinsurgency provided greater protection for civilians, despite mounting evidence of Iraq’s secret prisons, torture chambers, thousands of civilian casualties and top-secret assassination operations carried out by Lt. General Stanley McChrystal in 2006, described in Bob Woodward’s The War Within. Liberal interventionists cringed at the outcome in Iraq, but Power apparently thought the counterinsurgency doctrine was a step towards greater emphasis on human rights.’
    http://www.thenation.com/article/159570/samantha-power-goes-war

    Samantha Power’s case for striking Syria – Washington Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/samantha-powers-case-for-striking-syria/

    Samantha Power’s Case for War on Libya
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/03/23/libya-war-samantha-power-and-the-case-for-liberal-interventionism.html

    A very dangerous female psychopath.

  465. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 2:02 pm

    “…out to enjoy the spring sunshine and welcome the re-emergence of fascism in their country…”

    Are they going off-script, Sofia?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2hS_LhslTw

  466. Update News

    Habbabreak V5 now has a button to easily turn the entire script on and off. So you can choose when you want to use it and when not, at the push of a button.

    I have also tidied up the web page and added some more comments (by Anon and Clark).

    I am open to feature requests but no promises. The Greasy Fork owner is looking to fix the install counter. Fred and I share dreams of peace.

  467. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 2:57 pm

    It’s always interesting, not to mention instructive, not to focus on just one blog but to keep one’s eye on what’s going on in other selected parts of the blogosphere in general.

    So, with that in mind, I thought I’d pop in to visit AlcAnon’s (“Squonk”‘s) blog to take a look at what’s going on there…

    Well, the first thing I noticed to my surprise is that most of the Emninences posting here are also rather busy on Squonk (Ben, Fujisan, Mary, Phil,Macky, Fred, lots of Clark, etc..) and have come out with some quite – let us say – “intimate” revelations.

    But the second thing I noticed is that, very much to my disappointment, the variety of themes brought up there is very limited by comparison with what you find here on Craig – there’s some technical stuff, a lot of self-advertisement by our new old poster “Afrend” for his Habbabreak, and above all, a lot of agonized and cross talk about myself and Resident Dissident. In fact, the Squonk posters seem fascinated by Resident Dissident and me, which is very flattering given that neither of us has posted on there.

    But, despite the absence of Resident Dissident, ESLO, Anon and myself from “Squonk”, it still appears that there’s trouble at th’mill. At least judging from a post from Blogmaster Squonk, who writes (in bold and large font):

    “This is getting out of hand. I didn’t set up this blog for people to learn to hate each other a little more and to hurl insults back and forwards.
    If it doesn’t stop I’ll switch all comments to be pre-moderated and stop it that way. Of that drives people away then I’ll shutdown the blog as a natural consequence.”.

    Perhaps Squonk had comments like the followng in mind?

    From Phil to Clark, “You don’t need protecting frpm Macky because he’s just another gob shite on the internet”

    Tut, tut! Such brotherly love, even in the absence of myself and Resident Dissident, Anon and ESLO. I weep.

    And from Clark to Phil, “So fuck off Phil, you’re no longer needed or wanted.”.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I do recommend that all non-Eminences briefly visit Squonk’ blog – you’ll learn a lot about the Eminences and their curious ways. :)

  468. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 3:08 pm

  469. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 3:11 pm

    Yes it is fascinating that AA created a blog during a black-out at CM because of the pre-eminences.

    It’s a mystery why comments there derive from Craig’s blog. A genuine conundrum.

  470. ‘The US’s Secretary of State John Kerry and its UN ambassador, Samantha Power have been pushing for more assistance to be given to the Syrian rebels. This is despite strong evidence that the Syrian armed opposition are, more than ever, dominated by jihadi fighters similar in their beliefs and methods to al-Qa’ida. The recent attack by rebel forces around Latakia, northern Syria, which initially had a measure of success, was led by Chechen and Moroccan jihadis.

    America has done its best to keep secret its role in supplying the Syrian armed opposition, operating through proxies and front companies. It is this which makes Seymour Hersh’s article “The Red Line and The Rat Line: Obama, Erdogan and the Syrian rebels” published last week in the London Review of Books, so interesting.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mi6-the-cia-and-turkeys-rogue-game-in-syria-9256551.html

    Power seems to be lacking the female quality of nurturing and is desperate for more killing and maiming instead.

  471. Kempe. Thanks for your critique. It is apparent then that Gaddafi was over thrown for his abuse of money and power and that now that money and power is safely out of his regimes hands, that money and power can now be better manipulated.

    It’s nearly all about money and power. Good luck to the honest hard working people.

    Shame,

  472. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 3:43 pm

    “Yes it is fascinating that AA created a blog during a black-out at CM because of the pre-eminences.”
    __________________

    And equally fascinating that it’s still going strong even after the welcome return of CM!

    Some Eminences obviously like to hear themselves in sterio :)

  473. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 3:46 pm

    In stereo at 100 watts! Well done, Ben and friends!

  474. Ben. I looked up Joseph N Welch. Good that he stood up for the junior under attack by the McCarthyite witchhunt. Nothing much has changed over 60 years. Would anyone do the same now?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch

  475. In fact, the Squonk posters seem fascinated by Resident Dissident and me, which is very flattering given that neither of us has posted on there.

    Habbabkuk, I think your memory is going! – https://squonk.tk/blog/2013/12/19/the-new-yorker-state-of-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-1800

    Thanks for the review anyway. No such thing as bad publicity they say :-)

  476. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:15 pm

    Squonk

    Yes, I posted there a couple of times while CM was down. But not since, as you well know.

    Nevertheless, you will be aware that there have been many comments about Resident Dissident and me on your blog over the last 30 days. True or false?

    Good to know that posters on Squonk seem to spend most of their time posting about me and Resident Dissident posting on CM. Very flattering (and as you say, good publicity) for you.

  477. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:16 pm

    Squonk

    BTW, have you got over that expression of peevishness of yours which I quoted?

  478. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:19 pm

    Developments in Ukraine/Russia

    There is a lot of ill-concealed glee on this thread about the latest developments in eastern Ukraine.

    On the basis that the posters concerned (1) wish the best for the people of Ukraine and (2) wish the best for Britain and the British people (if not its govt), I invite them to share their thoughts with us on the following:

    in which way do they see the latest developments in eastern Ukraine as being to the benefit of the Ukraine/Ukrainian people and/or to the benefit to Britain and the British people?

    _________________________

    The friends of rasPutin on this blog seem to be at a loss for words……:)

  479. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:24 pm

    Squonk

    Don’t you feel a bit redundant now that Craig’s blog is back and going strong?

    I mean, it can’t be very interesting for you when most of the comments are from CM regulars pontificating about someone else’s blog, surely?

    Perhaps you should yourself take a leaf out of Craig’s book and post some interesting topics for discussion?

  480. Habbabkuk ,

    Actually I subsequently deleted a whole bunch of comments not long after that post and things have since calmed down. You’re not hoping to stir things up again I presume?

  481. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    “Good to know that posters on Squonk seem to spend most of their time posting about me and Resident Dissident posting on CM”

    Shorter Horseshoecrab; “They’re talking about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!”

    lol.

  482. Ben-Joseph N. Welch

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:33 pm

    UPDATE on MH 370—-The search is vast, complex and difficult :)

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

  483. Habbabkuk – good grief – not satisfied with “suggesting” policy for Craig’s blog you want to do mine as well!

    I could set up Habbabkuk.tk for you with its own WordPress blog for free if you want. Just think, you could enlighten the world from your own platform. I’m sure we could then all then pop over with helpful suggestions for your consideration.

  484. Me.Me.Me. That makes 6 posts within the last 40 mins. Sad.

    I have been out in the garden in the warmth of the sun under a blue sky. Glorious and I pulled up so many dandelions which have seeded around. The verges along the roads and lanes glow with them. Even the leaves on the trees are coming out!

  485. Ben-Hab's Balsam in Gilead

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:43 pm

    Mary; Here alongside roads and highways seeded with wildflowers is gorgeous with different species.

    It’s the one thing CalTrans does well.

  486. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:48 pm

    Russian commandos take Government buildings in Kramatorsk

    See the comments beneath

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=qmxBjsU2rig&app=desktop#

    Retweeted by Anne Applebaum

  487. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:50 pm

    The Interpreter Blog I linked to earlier today cannot be accessed as present.

  488. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    Here’s a nice group photo of the nice local activists of Eastern Ukraine. All with identical automatic weapons – from Carl Bildt’s Twitter site

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/455311785755938816/photo/1

  489. Ben-Hab's Balsam in Gilead

    13 Apr, 2014 - 5:01 pm

    I don’t recall anyone mentioning the recent events (Friday) in Syria.

    Multiple fronts for the Triangulators. Iran continues to rankle the Neocons.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-gas-attack-in-kfar-zeita-reported-by-government-rebels/

  490. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 5:14 pm

    AlcAnon/Squonk

    “Habbabkuk ,

    Actually I subsequently deleted a whole bunch of comments not long after that post and things have since calmed down. You’re not hoping to stir things up again I presume?”
    ____________________

    No, absolutely no intention of stirring up things for you; after all, I don’t post on your blog and have no particular wish to do so.

    Your blog is, in a sense, the unintended victim of a couple of points I wanted to bring to the attention of the casual reader of CM, viz

    1/. the squabbling on your blog which gave rise to your admonition demonstrates that the regulars on CM (who also post on yours) are a naturally fractious, unpleasant lot and that my presence or otherwise has nothing to do with that fractiousness and unpleasantness;

    2/. far from me being obsessed with myself (cf for example Ben Weedsmoker above) it appears to be the CM regulars who are obsessed with me – to the extent of spending much of their time on your blog talking about me on CM;

    3/. the CM regulars (the Eminences) spend a lot of their time telling each other to “ignore the trolls” and to “scroll past the trolls” and the new old poster Afrend hawks his Habbabbreak to all and sundry amid cries of admiration and gratitiude…..while simultaneously spending much of their time talking about me and Resident Dissident on another (your) blog. Slight inconsistency there, perhaps?

    End of chapter :)

  491. You might like this piece by Richard Mabey Ben.

    http://noglory.org/index.php/articles/164-richard-mabey-poppies-and-skylarks-among-the-horrors-of-world-war-one

    It is a counter to the swamp of commemoration for the mass slaughter of WW1 which Cameron is superintending. To my mind, the whole thing should be quietly remembered by the descendants of those who died. This warmongering state should be kept well away from it.

    My hero was Harry Patch. Here is Heathcote Williams.

    http://noglory.org/index.php/when-tony-blair-met-harry-patch

    ~~~

    I have several of Richard Mabey’s books including Food for Free dating back to the 70s. Lovely man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mabey

  492. doug scorgie

    13 Apr, 2014 - 5:31 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    13 Apr, 2014 – 12:20 pm

    “There is a lot of ill-concealed glee on this thread about the latest developments in eastern Ukraine.”

    If that is true Habbabkuk you can surely point it out by giving examples but of course you won’t because you can’t.

    “…in which way do they see the latest developments in eastern Ukraine as being to the benefit of the Ukraine/Ukrainian people and/or to the benefit to Britain and the British people?”

    The developments in eastern Ukraine are a natural follow-on from the western-backed coup in Kiev. These developments will not be to the benefit of ordinary Ukrainians or ordinary anyone but you and your clan will no doubt deny any western involvement and simply blame the evil Ruskies but in reality your heroes the US/UK/Nato started this crisis and it’s gone pear-shaped.

    What’s the difference between the protesters in Kiev which you supported and the protesters in eastern Ukraine?

    A comprehensive answer is required but I won’t hold my breath.

  493. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:05 pm

    What happens when the State and Church get too cozy? Easter eggs, bunny rabbits; What do they have to do with it?

    “Because of that history, the reign of Herod and the operation of the temple were linked and locked. It was the near inseparable joining of government and religion. To offend one was to offend both.

    Herod the Great died in 4 CE, when Jesus was still a child. During the years of Jesus’s teaching ministry, Herod’s son, Herod Antipas, was the ruler. The joining of kingdom and temple continued.

    Jesus grew up and taught in a rural area 70 miles north of Jerusalem. His faith was shaped, not by Jerusalem and the temple, but by weekly gatherings of the community elders as they read Torah (Jewish law) and discussed its meaning.

    Jesus and his followers had limited contact with Jerusalem’s social, political and religious leaders, mostly through the retainers (enforcers) of Herod’s Roman rule who also represented the Jerusalem temple. Retainers made regular trips into the rural north to collect tithes and taxes.

    To understand Jesus, one must realize the depth of his contempt for both the rule of Herod and the religious rulers of the temple. To further understand Jesus and the last week of his life, the student needs to realize that the Old Testament contains not one religious tradition, but two. One is called the great tradition; the other is called the small (or lesser) tradition.

    The great tradition is the definition of society laid down by those who rule and enforced by their retainers. The great tradition is centered in cities in which the controlling institutions are located. For Jesus, that place was Jerusalem. There is no evidence that Jesus ever visited Jerusalem as an adult before the last week of his life.”

    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/13/misunderstanding-jesuss-execution-2/

  494. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:07 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “A comprehensive answer is required but I won’t hold my breath.”
    _______________________

    It would be if you had put any serious questions worth answering…which is unfortunately and as so often from you, not the case.

    But you have answered my essential question by saying: “These developments will not be to the benefit of ordinary Ukrainians or ordinary anyone”.

    I agree.

    They will only benefit rasPutin’s over-sized ego and sense of entitlement. rasPutin, as I’m sure you’re aware, is the man who said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest political catastrophe of his lifetime.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I suppose I owe it to you to acknowledge that you’re the only Excellence with the balls to have essayed an opinion. The others maintain an embarrassed silence.

  495. Resident Dissident

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:08 pm

    What’s the difference between the protesters in Kiev which you supported and the protesters in eastern Ukraine?

    Foreign militia, a rather higher level of weaponry would be two obvious differences.

  496. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:12 pm

    Mary; I’ve often wondered what it was like to clear and rebuild a flattened cit, after viewing pics of the mountains of debris. The Great Wars couldn’t stop seedlings from pushing through the asphalt and concrete. Now that’s power.

  497. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:14 pm

    “Can anything good come out of Nazareth” :)

  498. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:25 pm

    Apologies to you, Squonk, but I’m reposting in case the Eminences missed it.
    _________________________________

    It’s always interesting, not to mention instructive, not to focus on just one blog but to keep one’s eye on what’s going on in other selected parts of the blogosphere in general.

    So, with that in mind, I thought I’d pop in to visit AlcAnon’s (“Squonk”‘s) blog to take a look at what’s going on there…

    Well, the first thing I noticed to my surprise is that most of the Em
    inences posting here are also rather busy on Squonk (Ben, Fujisan, Mary, Phil,Macky, Fred, lots of Clark, etc..) and have come out with some quite – let us say – “intimate” revelations.

    But the second thing I noticed is that, very much to my disappointment, the variety of themes brought up there is very limited by comparison with what you find here on Craig – there’s some technical stuff, a lot of self-advertisement by our new old poster “Afrend” for his Habbabreak, and above all, a lot of agonized and cross talk about myself and Resident Dissident. In fact, the Squonk posters seem fascinated by Resident Dissident and me, which is very flattering given that neither of us has posted on there.

    But, despite the absence of Resident Dissident, ESLO, Anon and myself from “Squonk”, it still appears that there’s trouble at th’mill. At least judging from a post from Blogmaster Squonk, who writes (in bold and large font):

    “This is getting out of hand. I didn’t set up this blog for people to learn to hate each other a little more and to hurl insults back and forwards.
    If it doesn’t stop I’ll switch all comments to be pre-moderated and stop it that way. Of that drives people away then I’ll shutdown the blog as a natural consequence.”.

    Perhaps Squonk had comments like the followng in mind?

    From Phil to Clark, “You don’t need protecting frpm Macky because he’s just another gob shite on the internet”

    Tut, tut! Such brotherly love, even in the absence of myself and Resident Dissident, Anon and ESLO. I weep.

    And from Clark to Phil, “So fuck off Phil, you’re no longer needed or wanted.”.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I do recommend that all non-Eminences briefly visit Squonk’ blog – you’ll learn a lot about the Eminences and their curious ways. :) And I sympathise with Squonk for having to put up with them.

  499. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 6:27 pm

    Just be sure you wear your tiny helmet. :)

  500. “Apologies to you, Squonk, but I’m reposting in case the Eminences missed it.”

    For fucks sake grow up shit head.

    Yes, go over to squonk anyone and look for yourself I don’t say anything there that I wouldn’t say here as what this cretin is implying.

    I’ve told you before to keep my name out of your pathetic little juvenile games fuckwit. I wipe better things than you off my boots.

  501. The slow build-up brand directed towards war exercises on Russia’s borders.

    http://stopwar.org.uk/videos/is-nato-itching-for-war-as-it-baits-russia-with-isolation-and-threats#.U0rIWlVdV22

    According to my RAF sources a major part of these exercise will involve joint sorties of the Eurofighter Typhoon with Oman and others with emphasis on air-to-ground coordination building on the successful ‘pathway’ attacks on ground vehicles operated by Gaddafi forces during the smashing and destruction of Libya.

  502. It is quite clear that when Mary comes across a person in the public sphere she does not like, the very first thing she tries to ascertain is whether that person is Jewish, is married to a Jew, or has Jewish ancestry.

    A Google search of ” Xyz Jewish ” would appear to be the first recourse, followed by a cursory scanning of the relevant Wikipedia page, gimlet-eyed and ever watchful for that capital J.

  503. Jives,

    Hard luck on the Scotch National old thing. I could’ve told you it’s a mug’s game!

  504. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:08 pm

    Fred

    “Yes, go over to squonk anyone and look for yourself I don’t say anything there”
    _________________

    Liar or memory loss, old man?

    6 times, eg April 3 at 16h05, April 11 at 08h06, April 12 at 13h59 ( The thread with a picture of General Melchett from Blackadder at the top).

  505. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:12 pm

    And that’s only looking at the April 2014 comments, Fred

  506. Mark “Walt” Golding writes:

    “According to my RAF sources…”

    I’ve told you before, Walt. The guy on the internet you believe to be your SAS/Army/RAF informant is at best another internet crank, and at worst a figment of your imagination.

    How do I know this? Because I follow up on your tip-offs and they never seem to happen. You’re a bit like Jives in that regard!

  507. Habbabkuk

    I haven’t visited “Squonk”, but it appears the loonies have their very own hate forum. Or rather, they have taken over another blog and turned it into that.

    I’d bet not one of them actually uses “Habbabreak” as they are clearly devoid of purpose without you.

  508. “Liar or memory loss, old man?”

    Calling me a liar now you useless fucking cunt.

    I told you, I stand by every word as what it was.

    Correction, you aren’t useless, you serve as a perfect example of why close relatives shouldn’t get married.

  509. Kempe

    Let’s keep it simple.

    I have presented a case whereby the West’s intervention in Libya has been disastrous for its people. You disagree. Please tell me how you believe the majority of Libyan people have benefited from Gaddafi’s overthrow.

  510. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:42 pm

    Mark; In the same year (1990) James Baker and Bush Sr. asked for help in the transition of governance in Nicaragua from Sandanista to the oppos (guess who?) and several carrots were held up to Russia, like food for the struggling masses. We always have a caveat to aid.

  511. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:51 pm

    Immediate end to sanctions dove-tails with de-funding the Contras, and then the bottom dropped out of the cocaine market.

    “Chamarro’s election was a repudiation of over 10 years of Sandinista rule that had been characterized by a destructive war with the Contras and a failing economic system. The United States saw Chamarro’s victory as validation of its long-time support of the Contras, and many analysts likened the electoral defeat of the Sandinistas to the crumbling of communist regimes in Eastern Europe during the same period. Critics of the U.S. policy toward Nicaragua retorted that negotiations among the Central American presidents had brought free elections to Nicaragua—which nearly 10 years of American support of armed conflict had been unable to accomplish.

    In the wake of the election, the administration of President George Bush immediately announced an end to the U.S. embargo against Nicaragua and pledged new economic assistance. Though rumors flew that the Sandinista-controlled army and security forces would not accept Chamarro, she was inaugurated without incident. The Sandinistas, however, continued to play a role in Nicaraguan politics and still actively campaign for, and occasionally win, political office.”

    http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/sandinistas-are-defeated-in-nicaraguan-elections

  512. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 7:55 pm

  513. Jay

    thank you for this link to the story of Gaddafi spending much of his oil revenue on the Great Man-Made River Project.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/libyas-water-wars-and-gaddafis-great-man-made-river-project/5334868

    “It was Muammar Gaddafi`s dream to provide fresh water for all Libyans and to make Libya self-sufficient in food production.

    Libyans called it the eighth wonder of the world. Western media called it a pet project and the pipe dream of a mad dog. The “mad dog” himself in 1991 prophetically said about the largest civil engineering venture in the world:

    After this achievement, American threats against Libya will double. The United States will make excuses, but the real reason is to stop this achievement, to keep the people of Libya oppressed.”

    In July 2011, NATO not only bombed the Great Man-Made River water supply pipeline near Brega, but also destroyed the factory that produces the pipes to repair it, claiming in justification that it was used as “a military storage facility” and that “rockets were launched from there”.

    ….thus proving that Gaddafi was not only a visionary but a prophet.

  514. doug scorgie

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:08 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    13 Apr, 2014 – 12:37 pm

    …kin..ell Habbabkuk wants sources and links!!!

    “But I’m sure you know what you’re on about. Could you possibly supply us with sources and links so that I can look into this in more detail?”

  515. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:12 pm

    Fred

    ““Liar or memory loss, old man?”

    Calling me a liar now you useless fucking cunt.”
    ___________________

    Well, Fred, when you claim that you’ve never posted on Squonk’s blog and I then point to 6 posts (just in April 2014) from you on Squonk, what word would you choose to describe yourself?

    For ease of reference, I’ll give your posts on Squonk once again :

    “6 times, eg April 3 at 16h05, April 11 at 08h06, April 12 at 13h59 ( The thread with a picture of General Melchett from Blackadder at the top).”.

    Oink! Oink!

  516. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:14 pm

    You’ve been outed, Old Man.

  517. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:15 pm

    Doug

    “Gie ‘im an inch, an he’ll tak an ell” or fucking hell? I’m working on the linguistics. :)

  518. Apologies to you, Squonk, but I’m reposting in case the Eminences missed it.

    Keep this up and I’ll have to start running adverts on https://squonk.tk/blog to make money from the traffic you send my way!

    Btw. any Blake’s 7 fans?

  519. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 8:46 pm

    Squonk: Go for those ad dollars dude. If’n you don’t my respect for your Scot roots will diminish.
    :)

  520. “Well, Fred, when you claim that you’ve never posted on Squonk’s blog”

    You lying fucking cunt how fucking low can you fucking well get you little shit.

    I have never made such a claim fuckwit. So go and fuck yourself obnoxious pathetic lying little shit.

  521. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:10 pm

    Fred

    You’re right, I inadvertently misquoted you : I should have quoted you as saying that you “don’t say anything there”.

    But, of course, you do! :)

    Oink!

  522. “You’re right, I inadvertently misquoted you : I should have quoted you as saying that you “don’t say anything there”.”

    Now everybody see that you are a liar and a cheat, as well as an obnoxious pathetic little cunt.

    Quote the entire sentence why don’t you retard.

  523. BrianFujisan

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:26 pm

    1

    Reposting From SQUONK

  524. BrianFujisan

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:29 pm

    Yip..

    Fucked that up…

    Re posting from SQUONK

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518XP8prwZo

    Cos i posted this on …SQOUNK first

  525. BrianFujisan

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:32 pm

    No way Man…Sorry Alcanon…. SQUONK

  526. Why does this blog’s Court Correspondent/blog reviewer believe that repeating something he wrote makes it any more interesting second time around?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-3/#comment-452631

    ~~~

    Anon The only one mentioning Jews here is you.

  527. “I have presented a case whereby the West’s intervention in Libya has been disastrous for its people. You disagree. Please tell me how you believe the majority of Libyan people have benefited from Gaddafi’s overthrow. ”

    Now you’re distorting the truth again. Where have I said such a thing?

    The claim was that Gaddafi’s regime was a direct democracy run for the benefit of it’s people and not an autocratic dictatorship where the ruling elite oppressed the population and creamed off billions for themselves. I think I’ve provided enough information to settle that. Only time will tell if the new regime is going to be any better.

    Oh and spending half of one year’s oil revenue over the space of 12 years on an irrigation project, whilst worthwhile and impressive, doesn’t change anything.

  528. Why wasn’t this fare dodger prosecuted? A massive fraud was committed over a period and he gets anonymity too.

    Hedge fund manager ‘in £42,550 train fare dodge’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27011497

  529. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:47 pm

    ” doesn’t change anything.”

    I disagree, Kempe. K. was crazy like a fox. I’m not casting a halo over the man, just recognizing what he recognize; the information age is changing the way they do business.

    Just as Al Capone utilized his exemplary PR skills to gain public support by giving out free turkeys at Christmas and New Years, made his a working class hero.

    K. was no dummy, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t do a lot of good to go with the bad, does it?

  530. BrianFujisan

    13 Apr, 2014 - 9:53 pm

    When Tony Blair was in residence, according to the diaries of his former communications director, Alastair Campbell, before the illegal invasion of Iraq, for which Blair’s Downing Street offices produced fantasy, fictional, false justifications, the then Prime Minister was guided by his faith and regularly spoke to “his Maker.” Blair may have “spoken” – but, as ever, he clearly didn’t listen.

    Proverbs (6:16-19) rules on six personality traits his “Maker” abhors and seven that are an abomination to Him: “Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord …” Blair ticks every box, shattering any claim to his trumpeted Christian principles.

    Last Wednesday (9th April 2014) at his Easter reception at Downing Street for Christian leaders, Cameron reportedly again claimed divine inspiration when he drafted his key concept for the Conservative Party – he was doing God’s work.

    After a soprano sang Ave Maria the Prime Minister’s address included that: “It is the case that Christians are now the most persecuted religion around the world. We should stand up against persecution of Christians and other faith groups wherever and whenever we can.”(4)

    No mention of the years of Western-led attacks on majority Muslim countries, where both and all faiths have lived together, shared feasts and grief together for millennia. No mention of divide and rule. But maybe a whiff of a subliminal message, Syria is still on the radar.

    By Felicity A … More from this Piece @

    When Tony Blair was in residence, according to the diaries of his former communications director, Alastair Campbell, before the illegal invasion of Iraq, for which Blair’s Downing Street offices produced fantasy, fictional, false justifications, the then Prime Minister was guided by his faith and regularly spoke to “his Maker.” Blair may have “spoken” – but, as ever, he clearly didn’t listen.

    Proverbs (6:16-19) rules on six personality traits his “Maker” abhors and seven that are an abomination to Him: “Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord …” Blair ticks every box, shattering any claim to his trumpeted Christian principles.

  531. Kempe 13 Apr, 2014 – 9:42 pm

    “I have presented a case whereby the West’s intervention in Libya has been disastrous for its people. You disagree. Please tell me how you believe the majority of Libyan people have benefited from Gaddafi’s overthrow. ”

    Now you’re distorting the truth again. Where have I said such a thing?

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#

    Well, what are you saying? Do you agree that the West’s intervention was a disaster for the people of Libya?

  532. Brian,

    Craig’s blog could do with the ability to edit your own comment to correct mistakes. Now where have I seen that before :-)

  533. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    Brian; You picked up on the theme of Easter’s approach and it is good for all of good faith to recognize their sinful nature and gives umbrage to the false followers who usurp the title Christian and correspondingly derogate the reputation of one they see as the Son of God.

    I think those who are fortunate enough to be well fed and healthy followers of one who took a vow of poverty (having but one possession upon his demise; his clothing), might be humble enough to confess their sins and henceforth, commit them no more.

    In tribute; it’s the very least thing they could do.

  534. I write as a non-believer, but with huge respect for those with a true faith of all denominations, for the beautiful words and buildings created in love and reverence, in the architecture of the inspired or the simple meeting places, with the reverence palpable within.

    To warp the spirit of that wonder, create enemies and a religious “other” at worse and bitter resentment at a lowly best, then whinge: “Why do they hate us?” is not belief, but deviance. Cameron would have been more apt in citing Judas as inspiration than Jesus.

    “Beware false prophets”, there are some very powerful ones around and these are dangerous times.

    Link for the Above post…@ 9;53 pm

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/tony-blair-george-w-bush-and-david-cameron-hi-jacking-god/5377707

  535. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:06 pm

    Mary (with apologies to Mandy Rice-Davies)

    “Why does this blog’s Court Correspondent/blog reviewer believe that repeating something he wrote makes it any more interesting second time around?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-3/#comment-452631
    __________________

    “You would say that, wouldn’t you”

    ******************
    La vita è bella, la ripetizione magnifica!”

  536. Red Eye’d Ben Hahaha…Yip

    Alcanon/Squonk…yip…. Please mods… Edit Button

  537. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:12 pm

    Cheers, Brian. Can we vote in an edit button? My eyes are straining and it would help so much. :)

  538. The All New All Singing All Dancing Habbabreak V6!

    Take control of what gets your goat. Hide or preview who you want.

    You can now opt to minimise comments to a one line preview instead of hiding them completely! This means you can scroll past quickly, scan the first line, and choose to open the whole comment if you want.

    Of course, you can still choose to hide comments completely if this suits you better.

    The best of both worlds! We’ve been listening to what you’ve been saying. It’s all about choices in V6.

    Now a serious tool to enhance your experience!

    Easy to install. Easy to use. Easy on your goat. If you don’t like it you can easily uninstall in seconds.

    Try It Now

  539. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:13 pm

    Fred

    ““You’re right, I inadvertently misquoted you : I should have quoted you as saying that you “don’t say anything there”.”

    Now everybody see that you are a liar and a cheat, as well as an obnoxious pathetic little cunt.”
    ___________________

    No, Senex, they can see that I inadvertently misquoted you, that I acknowledged the fact, and that I then supplied the correct quote.

    They can also see that you’re a foul-mouthed, ageing guttersnipe (as well as a liar).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Quote the entire sentence why don’t you retard.”
    ___________________

    Why don’t you, if you think it will help you.

    ********************

    And now, enough of this nonsense, Senex. Have the last word by all means (I know you like to)

  540. After a beautiful day in the countryside, I check here now and find that Habbabkuk has been busy posting all day, poor thing; in fact it is very, very rare that a day passes without him being busy posting here; what sort of insatiable craving for attention does that to somebody ?! What psychological factor is at work here, that would explain this obsessive narcissism ?!

    It wouldn’t be so bad, since he is incapable of worthwhile engagement, if he was at least funny or witty with his posts, but no such luck; instead he has now sunk so long, that he has to blatantly lie about others Posters, all to provoke & shift the focus of attention back to himself; he lied about me just the other day;

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-2/#comment-452327

    and now he has just lied about Fred also.

    Interesting to see how the new moderating regime reacts, if at all that is, after all, Craig is rather fond of his “Lefties” baiting troll.

  541. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:16 pm

    Brian; Here’s the music behind ‘toker’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOKJikcYMk

  542. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    13 Apr, 2014 - 10:17 pm

    And, finally, a good goodnight to all you Excellences, even those who are still nerving themselves up to reply to my splendid question concerning the situation in Ukraine.

    May the succubi and incubi which doubtless trouble your nightly sleep give you a break tonight!

  543. Ha! Samantha Power caught out by her own words in 2006.

    https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/455381362367688704/photo/1

  544. Btw the plugin that enables comment editing as seen at squonk is “Simple Comment Editing” http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-comment-editing/

    Installable in seconds from the WordPress admin interface.

  545. @Habbabkuk

    Go fuck yourself lying cheating retard.

  546. Habbabkuk; “And, finally, a good goodnight to all you Excellences”

    Leaving already, or should I say at last ! Was it something I said ? :D

  547. “You’re right, I inadvertently misquoted you : I should have quoted you as saying that you “don’t say anything there”.”

    Habbabkuk, stop being a feckin eejit. What Fred said was:

    “I don’t say anything there that I wouldn’t say here as what this cretin is implying.”

    (I’m in Chrome. In Firefox I have three people blanked. Just FYI.)

  548. Mary… INCUBUS…By a Master

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xpZ8w1tahY

  549. @Dreoilin
    “I’m in Chrome. In Firefox I have three people blanked. Just FYI.”

    Dreoilin, please take a look at the latest version Habbabreak V6. It allows you to switch it on and off at the press of a button so you shouldn’t need to switch between browsers.

    [It is generally more user friendly and has a new option to preview comments instead of hiding them completely. Just in case you missed me peddling it above]

  550. Thanks Afrend. I’ll do that.

  551. Brian,

    I prefer this version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk2soZPEFIs

  552. ‘Afriend’

    If you don’t like what a contributor has to say, then don’t read them.

    That you have gone to the lengths of producing software to enable you to ignore that person shows a lack of self-control.

    That you have gone further by adding a function that allows you to see a snippet of that person’s postings shows you really can’t help yourself.

  553. There’s a good article here on Libya’s standard of living under Gadaffi:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/destroying-a-country-s-standard-of-living-what-libya-had-achieved-what-has-been-destroyed/26686

    Where did all their gold go, and their sovereign wealth fund?

    Good interview here of one of Libya’s tribal spokesmen:

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-855-faraj-muftah-describes-the-fall-of-libya/

  554. Sofia Kibo Noh

    14 Apr, 2014 - 1:32 am

    Too many posts to go thru all before bed. It seems Dad escaped again and blundered in among the humans. Sorry about that!

    “Me! Me! Me!” Indeed. What an embarrassment!

    Meanwhile, real people across eastern Ukraine are putting their bodies in the way of Fascism. My heart goes out to them.

    One cause for optimism from my distant perspective is the seeming reluctance of many of Ukraine’s police and military to be run as an extension of Right Sector. That nudges things towards an outcome that involves voting rather than shooting.

    Ukraine Updates here, http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/

    Goodnight all.

  555. UN Security Council now meeting…

    Russia: “Unrest in Eastern Ukraine nothing to do with us, so lay off”

    US: “Oh yes it is, and don’t try to deny it!”

    This is getting very serious.

  556. Resident Dissident.

    LOVE the fact you were so dumb enough a coupla days ago to rise to my troll-finding bait and fell into the oh-so-obvious fool’s trap…

    Ya eejit.

    Even Habba,ESLO and Kempe aint that dumb.

    Ya sucker Res Diss.

    LOL

    Twat/troll…:.~)

  557. Apparently the Ukrainian economy is in a very bad way with people withdrawing their money from the banks. Are the US/EU ready for the big bailout?

  558. Look at the plods here. Paid for out of our taxes of course. I think I hear BLair say ‘That’s democracy for you’. No irony coming from a butchering war monger.

    Another attempt to arrest Tony Blair for war crimes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l64WHDg5nw
    16 Jun 2012

    War criminal Tony Blair should be behind bars for his implication in war crimes that killed one million Iraqis. On 14 June 2012, Tom Grundy was the latest anti-war activist to attempt to make a citizen’s arrest of Blair.

    To see videos of other attempts to arrest Blair, go to: http://bit.ly/LoamA8

    See also the website offering a reward for people attempting a peaceful citizen’s arrest of Tony Blair: http://www.arrestblair.org

    Wonder who the creep was who introduced him at the meeting.

    One day! One day!

  559. ESLO; “For those needing a break from the Putinistas”

    Er, thanks, for that, but best summed-up in this comment;

    “Risible piece of tendentious drivel from putative novelist James Meek. His incisive, rapier like analysis is almost as dreadful as his vapid excuses for literature”

    Meanwhile back in the real world;

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/14/getv-a14.html

  560. agreed peacewisher, its getting serious for the last six weeks, who in their right mind would announce manouvres next to this provocative behaviour.
    That they are still talking to each other and share ntheir blinni’s on the international space station says to me that there is still time left to talk this over.
    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/02/ukra-a02.html

    Fighting in Alleppo has increased again and the armsflow from the US is steady. There are some strong forces telling Obama to act in Syria, as a counter balance to Russia’s acts of subdefuge, that would be the most daft thing to do as it would polarise the whole world.

    thanks for your sleepless nights developing Habbabreak afrend, a saviour in our case, buit what of us advocating free speech?

    with that I shall leave for some physical work.

  561. Sofia Kibo Noh

    14 Apr, 2014 - 9:41 am

    ELSO

    Thanks for the link.

    “Ever since the revolution, Putin has promoted the idea that Ukraine is in “chaos”. But there was no chaos, so he made some. The only chaos in Ukraine has been caused by Russian intervention.” James Meek

    Alice: Sometimes I believe in as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

    Mad Hatter: That is an excellent practice.

  562. @Nevermind
    “thanks for your sleepless nights developing Habbabreak afrend, a saviour in our case, buit what of us advocating free speech?”

    Nevermind, the pleasure is all mine. Rest assured I have had no sleepless nights (well not from writing code anyway). Habbabreak is very quick to knock together, all the heavy lifting is done by Greasemonkey and Jquery (the technologies used).

    I do not see it as a free speech issue. No one is stopping anyone from speaking. Habbabreak simply allows me to stop listening for a moment. After hearing someone shout for so long without learning one thing from that person, I reserve the right to stop listening for a while.

    Get a grip on your goat with Habbabreak.

  563. Ba'al Zevul (Keep Calm, Dear!)

    14 Apr, 2014 - 11:06 am

    Sorry, Sofia, you have awoken my sleeping pedant there -

    White Queen:

    “I’m just one hundred and one, five months and a day.”
    “I can’t believe that!” said Alice.
    “Can’t you?” the Queen said in a pitying tone. “Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.”
    Alice laughed. “There’s no use trying,” she said: “one can’t believe impossible things.”
    “I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    (Alice Through The Looking-Glass)

  564. On the newly found religiosity of the war criminals.

    Tony Blair, George W. Bush and David Cameron
    Hi-jacking God?

    Felicity Arbuthnot / April 14th, 2014

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/04/tony-blair-george-w-bush-and-david-cameron/

  565. The same subject is written about here by a Palestinian. Very moving.

    Twelve Years a Slave, Sixty Six Years a Living Dead
    by Faysal Mikdadi
    http://londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/1800/twelve-years-a-slave-sixty-six-years-a-living-dead

  566. Ba'al Zevul (Keep Calm, Dear!)

    14 Apr, 2014 - 12:22 pm

    …and btw Ba’al you are pretty fond of the sound of your own voice. Second time you have joined in having a dig at me after someone else has had a go. Away with the pair of you. It is not a competition here for goodness’ sake.

    Oh. Thought you didn’t read my offerings….

    I refer the honourable lady to the notion that although I agree with her on several issues, and although her posts do not contain so much her own voice as that of the news items she faithfully reproduces, she herself does bang on a bit, and is rather apt to see mild criticism as a deadly insult requiring retaliation. Can I add that I find her politically naive, strident, unselective, and often someone I can safely scroll past as I am well aware, and have been for years, of the points she is making?

    No, it’s not a competition. But I expect you’ll have something to say, nevertheless.

  567. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Apr, 2014 - 12:31 pm

    Afrend (the Thinking Blogger’s Friend)

    “Habbabreak simply allows me to stop listening for a moment. After hearing someone shout for so long..”
    ______________________

    So you’ve been around for a long time – in that case why don’t you use your usual handle to inform about ‘Habbabreak’?

    Are you frit?

  568. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    14 Apr, 2014 - 12:34 pm

    Ba’al Zevul and Mary

    Official Notice : I decline all responsibility for the current spat between the above-mentioned two Eminent posters.

  569. “Risible piece of tendentious drivel from putative novelist James Meek. His incisive, rapier like analysis is almost as dreadful as his vapid excuses for literature”

    Cannot even make up your own vacuous insults so you now have to rely on others?

  570. “On the newly found religiosity”

    Hardly.

  571. Kempe 12 Apr, 2014 – 6:19 pm

    Here is your comment from …..
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-3/#comment-452491
    … in its entirety.

    “∙Child mortality rates dropped from 70 per thousand live births to 19. ”
    Compared to 5.3 per thousand in the evil indirect democracy capitalist UK and that’s one of the worst in the developed world.

    “∙Life expectancy rose from 61 to 74 years of age. ”
    Compared to 81 in the (see above) UK.

    Can’t be bothered to dismantle the rest but suffice to say that since Gaddafi’s overthrow, allegedly engineered by the west, the left have felt the need to remould the dictator as some kind of saint and Libya as something approaching utopia. The truth is that there was no democracy in Libya, salaries were low and the Gaddafi’s squandered most of the oil wealth on themselves.”

    It’s so typical of your unsubstantiated-smear-and-run tactics that I thought I’d give it the once over. I haven’t included links but I will be happy to do so if you challenge anything I’ve said.

    “∙Child mortality rates dropped from 70 per thousand live births to 19. ”
    Compared to 5.3 per thousand in the evil indirect democracy capitalist UK and that’s one of the worst in the developed world.”

    When Gaddafi bloodlessly deposed the Western-appointed puppet-leader King Idris of Libya, child mortality was 70/1000. Under Gadaffi, this figure dropped to 19/1000, an improvement of 368% which undoubtedly would have continued if not for Western intervention. The situation is now so chaotic that no figures are available. But it is certain that mortality rates will have risen dramatically. Already, parts of Libya are being compared to Iraq’s Fallujah for deformed baby rates due to Depleted Uranium. To summerise that:
    Child mortality in Libya before Gaddafi = bad
    Child mortality in Libya during Gaddafi = good
    Child mortality in Libya after Gaddafi = bad

    ““∙Life expectancy rose from 61 to 74 years of age. ”
    Compared to 81 in the (see above) UK.”

    As above, things dramatically improved under Gaddafi and dramatically worsened after his murder.

    “Can’t be bothered to dismantle the rest”

    You can’t dismantle the rest, it’s true and if you could have refuted it, you would have.

    “but suffice to say that since Gaddafi’s overthrow [....] the left have felt the need to remould the dictator as some kind of saint and Libya as something approaching utopia.”

    As pointed out, elsewhere, Gadaffi was due to be honoured by the U.N. before Gaddafi’s murder. The post you linked to acknowledged this and complained that the UN should retract the honours it bestowed on him, saying “It’s time for the UN to formally apologize for having legitimized Gaddafi’s regime by electing Libya to its Human Rights Council last year, to the Security Council in 2008-2009, and as General Assembly president in 2009″

    “since Gaddafi’s overthrow, allegedly engineered by the west …..”

    “allegedly”!!!!!! “After some 8,000 bombing raids, with estimates of 4 bombs used per attack NATO has already dropped over 30,000 bombs on Libya. That’s almost 200 bombs per day for 6 months, some tens of thousands of tons of high explosives. With an estimated 2 Libyans killed per bomb and without a single NATO casualty the Western regimes have massacred over 60,000 Libyans in the past half year with the rebels themselves having said there have been 50,000 Libyan deaths. One hell of a humanitarian intervention isn’t it?”

    “The truth is that there was no democracy in Libya”

    No, that is not the truth, it is a lie. The system of government was called ‘direct democracy’ which is a form of democracy which many people, including myself, believe is a better system than the U.K.’s.

    “salaries were low”

    Another lie. The official minimum wage in Lybia was the equivalent of 4,286 US dollars/month, the highest in Africa and higher than many European countries. Then you bear in mind that taxes were very low, education and health care free, married couple grants, shares of oil revenue, and that rent and utilities were heavily government-subsidised.

    “and the Gaddafi’s squandered most of the oil wealth on themselves.”

    He spent most of his revenues on his country’s infrastructure to the benefit of all Libyans and subsiding their standard of life. He also lent heavily to other African countries to aid them. His government’s finances and revenue were open and transparent. His general behaviour and love of his country and people doesn’t fit with the image of a crook plundering his country’s resources – he did not lead an opulent lifestyle. Please don’t bother telling me how much his palaces cost, or I will tell you he lived in a tent. Western propaganda has falsely claimed that Libya’s foreign investments were Gaddafi salting away money. I’ve no idea if they were in his name or not, but I don’t believe that he was stealing them. I can’t prove this, but you can’t prove differently.

    So your comment just boils down to a lot of smears. The facts and figures of Gaddafi’s Libya are on record and you are not disputing them, just trying to insinuate that somehow they mean the opposite of what they say. Why, Kempe? What exactly is your message on this one? You aren’t silly enough to claim things have improved since Gaddafi’s murder and you haven’t answered me when I asked if you agreed they’d got much worse. So what is your point?

    Seriously, the only plausible scenario I can come up with is that, for some reason or another, you dispute anything which doesn’t fit the “The West is the good guys” narrative. I’ve described elsewhere on this thread why I post on this blog. I would be very interested and grateful if you would explain why you do.

  572. ESLO; “Cannot even make up your own vacuous insults so you now have to rely on others?”

    Bless ! You’re upset nobody wanted a part of your poo-sandwich ! Judging by the comments left, hardly anybody does either.

  573. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    May I make a polite request that you don’t join in conversations I’m having with other posters. Your style is often confusing and tends to distract rather than contribute. It breaks up the discussion. Here’s an example:
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/the-feminist-defence-of-blowing-out-the-brains-of-small-children/comment-page-3/#comment-452669

    There is another example on the next thread right now. The thread is barely started and you have posted 7 times out of the 24 comments. I can’t see any relevance to the topic in your posts. I suggest to you that you are doing more harm than good by confusing Craig’s message at such an early stage.

  574. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    14 Apr, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    A Node; I agree the comment you linked to was unclear, but my comments on the new thread, imo, are directly connected to the issue of UK/US collusion. If I am off-topic, craig usually asks me how it is relevant, and I reply. Sorry. I will try not to intrude on your discussions.

  575. Ben
    Thanks.

  576. This story is still running. I put it up earlier here and totally agree with what is being said.

    Anger as Stonegate hedge fund fare dodger ‘buys silence’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27019782

    ~~

    Swallowed something poisonous Ba’al Zevul? Your invective and ad hominems were unnecessary.

  577. From Our Own Correspondent

    A Happy Ending
    First broadcast: Saturday 12 April 2014

    The stories behind the stories.

    In this edition:
    why Germany’s ambivalence towards Russia may emerge as east meets west to discuss Ukraine next week;
    West Bengal plans to restore the lost glory of Kolkata – the idea is, we hear, to make it a bit more like London;
    life gets harder in the Gaza Strip as the interim government in neighbouring Egypt cranks up the pressure on Hamas;
    ‘Isn’t that you know who?’ A chance meeting, in a Budapest hospital, with the man who is arguably Europe’s most controversial leader.
    And what happened when our man in Marrakech asked the king to step in to save an ancient tradition from oblivion.

    I thought Yolande Knell’s documentary piece about life in Gaza was fair but Adie’s introduction was appalling. All the old memes about Hamas were trotted out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b040h14m 12mins 26secs in

  578. I have, wherever possible, provided sources for my information; reliable sources at that. I suppose nobody bothered to read the 2010 Amnesty report?

    Libya was a democracy in name only, power was centred around Gaddafi and parliament existed solely to rubber stamp his decisions. If you want to talk about child mortality figures in 1969 the UK figure was 19.2 so the UK has achieved a 362% improvement which is in line with Libya. I’ve not seen any figures whatsoever that substantiate claims that child mortality in Libya has increased since 2012.

    Whilst we’re on the subject of health care in Libya I think this case provided a useful insight into conditions inside the country under Gaddafi.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_trial_in_Libya

    Indeed the full effects of the regime’s failure to tackle AIDS are only just beginning to come to light.

    I also can’t understand how someone with a $120 million private jet can’t be said to be living an opulent lifestyle, Gaddafi didn’t live in a tent, he had one set up in the grounds of his palace, the one bombed by the Yanks in 1985, where he’d go and meditate. I find it amazing how the revisionist propaganda regarding Mummar has been so eagerly swallowed.

    It also seems to have been conveniently forgotten that Gaddafi’s overthrow began as a grass roots uprising in mid-February; UN sanctioned military intervention didn’t commence until 19th March.

    Do I think it a good thing that Gaddafi has gone? Yes, although I deplore the violence that entailed. Do I think things have improved for the Libyans? Not sure, revolutions rarely produce good results in the short term but they at least have the opportunity now they’re free to form political parties without fear of execution and no longer live in the most censored state in the arab world.

    https://cpj.org/reports/2006/05/10-most-censored-countries.php

  579. SAVE OUR NHS

    Who works for Monitor.

    https://twitter.com/h_jarman/status/428198335883669505/photo/1

    Monitor -

    1
    Monitor was created in 2004 as the independent regulator for NHS foundation trusts. It assesses NHS trusts for foundation trust status, and authorises those that meet the requirements to be financially sustainable, well led and locally accountable. It regulates NHS foundation trusts and intervenes where trusts are in significant breach of their regulatory conditions to help them become compliant again.

    2
    The government’s aim is for all NHS trusts to become NHS foundation trusts, either in their own right or after merger or reconfiguration. NHS foundation trusts are self-governing, enjoy greater financial and operational freedoms than NHS trusts, and are directly accountable to Parliament. At 31 December 2013, there were 147 NHS foundation trusts providing acute, mental health, ambulance and community health services.

    3
    The Health and Social Care Act 2012 expanded Monitor’s role. It is now the sector regulator for health services. Its new responsibilities include ensuring the continuity of services, setting prices for NHS-funded care jointly with NHS England from April 2014, and enforcing rules to prevent anti-competitive behaviour by healthcare commissioners and providers.

    4
    Monitor is an executive non-departmental public body sponsored by the Department of Health (the Department). It is independent of government in its regulatory judgements. In 2013-14, Monitor’s budget for core running costs is £48 million and it has over 300 staff.

    http://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Monitor-regulating-nhs-foundation-trusts.pdf

  580. Kempe

    “I have, wherever possible, provided sources for my information; reliable sources at that. I suppose nobody bothered to read the 2010 Amnesty report?”

    That reliable source will be the Amnesty International who paid their directors huge golden handshakes from donations, the same Amnesty International that says it does not accept donations from governments or governmental organisations but now admits it did receive grants from the UK Department for International Development, the European Commission, the United States State Department and other governments well known for their human rights concerns. Trustworthy? Demonstrably not. Reliable? A matter of opinion.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Libya was a democracy in name only” .

    That’s just another opinion. My opinion is that the UK is a democracy in name only. I believe that my opinion would have counted for more in Libya’s democracy than the UK’s.
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “If you want to talk about child mortality figures in 1969 the UK figure was 19.2 so the UK has achieved a 362% improvement which is in line with Libya”.

    So from disparaging Libya’s child mortality rates, you’re now comparing them favourably with the UK’s (they’re slightly better than the UK’s, actually).
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “I’ve not seen any figures whatsoever that substantiate claims that child mortality in Libya has increased since 2012.”

    No. Exactly my point, and you can bet that quite some effort will go into ensuring that figures are slow in coming and confusing in nature when they do. And I will bet that when they do come out, they will show a significant increase in infant mortality. Do you want to take me on in that bet? No? Thought not.
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Whilst we’re on the subject of health care in Libya I think this case provided a useful insight into conditions inside the country under Gaddafi.”

    Scraping the bottom with that one. Just a red herring. Out of interest, why do you think that Gaddafi would have brought the case? Because he’s a mad dog?
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “I also can’t understand how someone with a $120 million private jet can’t be said to be living an opulent lifestyle”

    I can’t understand how someone with two $325 million private jets can’t be said to be living an opulent lifestyle, but I don’t hear you complain about Obama’s Air Force One and Two.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Do I think things have improved for the Libyans? Not sure, revolutions rarely produce good results in the short term”

    Thank you for answering the question. Not sure, eh? How about Iraq, then? Very similar circumstances and justification, and surely enough time has passed to see the green shoots of recovery if they’re ever going to sprout. That’s a direct question by the way. Do you believe the average Iraqi has benefited from Western intervention?
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    ” ….but they at least have the opportunity now they’re free to form political parties without fear of execution and no longer live in the most censored state in the arab world.”

    Please provide reliable sources for these claims.
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    Just in case you missed that question :
    Do you believe the average Iraqi has benefited from Western intervention?

  581. Kempe; “Do I think it a good thing that Gaddafi has gone? Yes, although I deplore the violence that entailed. Do I think things have improved for the Libyans? Not sure, revolutions rarely produce good results in the short term but they at least have the opportunity now they’re free to form political parties without fear of execution and no longer live in the most censored state in the arab world”

    Ah, the mindset of the R2P Humanitarian Bombers; If you substitute Saddam for Gaddafi & Iraqis for Libyans, you are the R2P pin-up himself, Tony Blair; always trying to excuse away the utter destruction of a whole country, with the resulting uncountable deaths & unimaginable suffering, with the deluded smug self-righteous nonsense about the survivors of the bloodbaths, now being “free” ; in this contra-reality mindset, the newly fail-states newly are actually beacons of democratic freedoms, the daily bombing & killings don’t count, the crippled infrastructure & destroyed social fabric don’t count, the mass murdering torturers now in power in these “liberated” countries don’t count, that practically every citizen has had loved ones killed doesn’t count, that many, if not most, of the refugees trying to flee to a better life are from these same R2P “liberated” countries, don’t count , that the environment & indigenous gene pools are contaminated with radiation, doesn’t count, etc after depressing etc, but it all still doesn’t count if you are from Planet R2P, because “Freedom” has been achieved, “Freedom” to engage in Democracy, and even to have a “Free Press”, yes these are the pay-offs that every Iraqi or Libyan is now endlessly expressing gratitude to us for !

    Yet even these trumped “Freedoms”, & other supposed positives, are all self-serving delusional lies, as the reality is the polar opposite, which is why instead of endlessly expresses gratitude, the Libyans, just like the Iraqis started doing almost immediately, will look back & regard the time before the R2P bombs starting falling, as a mythical Golden Age of peace & prosperity, compared to the Hell on Earth they now live in.

  582. Res Diss,

    Rarely enough i find myself in complete agreeance with you.

    Yes,gambling is indeed a mug’s game.

    Which is why i didn’t bet on it :.)

  583. Ray McGovern interviewed by Sophie Shevardnadze on Ukraine.

    Europe will now think twice before following Washington’s orders – Ex-CIA Officer Ray McGovern
    April 14, 2014 08:30
    http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/us-eu-ukraine-sanctions-300/

    PS The interviewer’s grandfather, Eduard, is still alive, aged 86.

  584. The BBC have shown footage of these men sitting in a row within a cage. They are on mass trial in Libya and are Gaddafi’s associates. Saif is elsewhere.

    Saif al-Islam Gaddafi to be tried with others by video link
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27025942

    The reporter said something about the trial being proof that a democracy now exists in Libya!

  585. BrianFujisan

    15 Apr, 2014 - 5:27 am

    Mary

    Cheers

    Was just reading about that myself

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/854581.shtml#.U0yz91WnaSo

  586. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Apr, 2014 - 8:32 am

    Feb 19th ”I want to be very clear as we work through these next several days in Ukraine that we’re going to be watching closely and we expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protestors.” Obama

    Fast forward two months and we find CIA Director John Brennan in Kiev over the weekend to help the junta prepare for violent action against “terrorists”.

    And here are the terrorists deploying bad language against colunms of peaceful tanks, field guns and armoured personnel carriers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsEtQvJaisk

  587. Sofia Kibo Noh

    15 Apr, 2014 - 8:43 am

    Ba’al Zevul. 14 Apr, 2014 – 11:06 am

    “Sorry, Sofia, you have awoken my sleeping pedant there…

    …Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    No need to apologise. You have better recall than me. I knew it was in there. At least I got Alice pretty right.

  588. Two letters to the Guardian about their total lack of reporting of Seymour Hersh’s LRB article on the use of chemical weapons in Syria. BLiar of course is/was advocating an attack on Syria.

    Doubts about Syrian chemical weapons attacks
    The Guardian, Monday 14 April 2014 21.51 BST

    Syrian student is fitted in gas mask
    Video still showing classroom instruction how to respond to a chemical weapons attack in Aleppo, Syria. Photograph: Uncredited/AP

    The current issue of the London Review of Books carries an important article by Seymour Hersh, based on extensive interviews with intelligence staff, in which he argues powerfully that the chemical weapons attacks in Syria, culminating in that of 21 August in which over 1,000 people died, were carried out not by the government but by the opposition. This is confirmed by analytical tests conducted by Porton Down which showed that the gas used in the attacks could not have come from Syrian government stocks.

    Further, Hersh asserts, with evidence, that the gas attacks were carried out by Syrian opposition forces in concert with the Turkish government in order to throw blame on the Assad regime, thus crossing Obama’s “red line” and triggering massive strikes by the US and its allies on Syrian government forces and the country’s infrastructure. This is all the more concerning given the highly dubious nature of many of the opposition forces and their links to extremist factions – the danger, yet again, of our getting into bed with some very unpleasant “friends”.

    These are very serious claims and it is surprising that you still make the unqualified statement that “the Assad regime … was suspected of being responsible” (Chemical weapons body not ready to investigate Syrian attack claims, 12 April). At the very least, you should be reporting the doubts about who perpetrated these attacks, given that we could have been very nearly dragged into yet another Middle Eastern war on the back of bogus WMD allegations.

    Dr Richard Carter
    London

    Last year you published my letter about how every national newspaper had ignored Seymour Hersh’s exposé of how the Obama administration had “cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad” (Letters, 13 December). Confirming Marx’s dictum that “history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce”, Hersh’s new piece in the LRB has once again been blacked out by the press.

    Ian Sinclair
    London

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/14/doubts-syria-chemical-weapons-attacks

  589. Hammond is so boring, what was meant to sound threatening just sounded like more dreary nonsense. He was speaking to Thales workers.

    Scottish independence: Yes vote ‘risk to jobs’

    Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has predicted that a vote for Scottish independence would put defence jobs at risk.

    Speaking to defence workers in Glasgow, he claimed the UK’s shared defence forces provide benefits of scale.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27030447

    The Navy chief is saying the same too.

    LONDON, April 15 (Reuters) – Scottish independence would weaken Britain’s maritime defences by splitting up bases, infrastructure and staff, the country’s navy chief said, the first serving military boss to give a view on the consequences if Scots vote to break away in September.

    Writing in the Daily Telegraph newspaper on Tuesday, Admiral George Zambellas said the nations that remained in the United Kingdom if Scotland left the three-centuries-old union would cope eventually but Scotland would feel a “deeper impact”.

  590. BrianFujisan

    16 Apr, 2014 - 2:55 am

    Macky ANode

    thank you for posts Re Libya… Sickening and Heartbreaking what we have done over there…Just like Iraq…. and then onto Syria..its All connected Alright…

    Reuters reports that Syrian rebels have been using those heavy weapons to shoot downSyrian helicopters and fighter jets.

    The ship’s captain was “a Libyan from Benghazi and the head of an organization called the Libyan National Council for Relief and Support,” which was presumably established by the new government.

    That means that Ambassador Stevens had only one person—Belhadj—between himself and the Benghazi man who brought heavy weapons to Syria.

    Furthermore, we know that jihadists are the best fighters in the Syrian opposition, but where did they come from?

    Last week The Telegraph reported that a FSA commander called them “Libyans” when he explained that the FSA doesn’t “want these extremist people here.”

    And if the new Libyan government was sending seasoned Islamic fighters and 400 tons of heavy weapons to Syria through a port in southern Turkey—a deal brokered by Stevens’ primary Libyan contact during the Libyan revolution—then the governments of Turkey and the U.S. surely knew about it.

    Furthermore there was a CIA post in Benghazi, located 1.2 miles from the U.S. consulate, used as “a base for, among other things, collecting information on the proliferation of weaponry looted from Libyan government arsenals, including surface-to-air missiles” … and that its security features “were more advanced than those at rented villa where Stevens died.”

    And we know that the CIA has been funneling weapons to the rebels in southern Turkey. The question is whether the CIA has been involved in handing out the heavy weapons from Libya.

    In other words, ambassador Stevens may have been a key player in deploying Libyan terrorists and arms to fight the Syrian government.

    more @

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-efforts-to-arm-jihadis-in-syria-the-scandal-behind-the-benghazi-undercover-cia-facility/5377887

  591. “That reliable source will be the Amnesty International who paid their directors huge golden handshakes from donations, the same Amnesty International that says it does not accept donations from governments or governmental organisations but now admits it did receive grants from the UK Department for International Development, the European Commission, the United States State Department and other governments well known for their human rights concerns. Trustworthy? Demonstrably not. Reliable? A matter of opinion.”

    Amnesty paid off two directors who it would appear weren’t up to scratch otherwise the salaries they pay their top people are quite reasonable when compared to the rest of the charity sector. Can’t see how that would affect their trustworthiness anyway. Government donations amount to 1% of Amnesty budget and were donated to Amnesty’s education programme, not for research.

    If we’re questioning the reliability of sources I not that the author of a Youtube video posted earlier, Ken O’Keefe, is a well known conspiracy fruitloop and associate of David Icke!

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#

    “Libya was a democracy in name only” .

    “That’s just another opinion.”

    No it’s an established fact.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “If you want to talk about child mortality figures in 1969 the UK figure was 19.2 so the UK has achieved a 362% improvement which is in line with Libya”.

    “So from disparaging Libya’s child mortality rates, you’re now comparing them favourably with the UK’s (they’re slightly better than the UK’s, actually).”

    The Libyan figure was presented as though t was something remarkable that could only have been achieved through a direct democracy. My point is that it isn’t and only marginally better than the UK.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “I’ve not seen any figures whatsoever that substantiate claims that child mortality in Libya has increased since 2012.”

    “No. Exactly my point, and you can bet that quite some effort will go into ensuring that figures are slow in coming and confusing in nature when they do. And I will bet that when they do come out, they will show a significant increase in infant mortality. Do you want to take me on in that bet? No? Thought not.”

    So you admit there’s no evidence to support your claim. The country has just fought a civil war so figures might dip for a year or two before getting back to normal. That’s my prediction for what it’s worth.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Whilst we’re on the subject of health care in Libya I think this case provided a useful insight into conditions inside the country under Gaddafi.”

    “Scraping the bottom with that one. Just a red herring. Out of interest, why do you think that Gaddafi would have brought the case? Because he’s a mad dog?”

    Not a red herring at all. There’s no rational reason to sentence anyone to death by firing squad after what was clearly a show trial. It seems to have been done to cover up inadequacies in the Libyan health service.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “I also can’t understand how someone with a $120 million private jet can’t be said to be living an opulent lifestyle”

    “I can’t understand how someone with two $325 million private jets can’t be said to be living an opulent lifestyle, but I don’t hear you complain about Obama’s Air Force One and Two.”

    Irrelevant. We weren’t talking about Obama, nobody was claiming he lives a frugal lifestyle in a tent.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Do I think things have improved for the Libyans? Not sure, revolutions rarely produce good results in the short term”

    “Thank you for answering the question. Not sure, eh? How about Iraq, then? Very similar circumstances and justification, and surely enough time has passed to see the green shoots of recovery if they’re ever going to sprout. That’s a direct question by the way. Do you believe the average Iraqi has benefited from Western intervention?”

    Iraq was very different. Libya is not subject to occupation by foreign military forces and doesn’t suffer from the internal divisions that are causing the problems in Iraq. I’ve always said the invasion of Iraq was a grave error and my opinion hasn’t changed.

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    ” ….but they at least have the opportunity now they’re free to form political parties without fear of execution and no longer live in the most censored state in the arab world.”

    “Please provide reliable sources for these claims.”

    I provided a link regarding the “most censored” claim. Here it is again as you obviously missed it:-

    https://cpj.org/reports/2006/05/10-most-censored-countries.php

    Again:-

    http://www.arabipcentre.com/the-internet-in-libya.php

    One more:-

    http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/04/freedom-of-speech-in-libya/

    ” Under Article 3 of Law No. 71 of 1972 on the Criminalization of Parties, political opposition may be punishable by death.”

    http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=Libya

  592. “Yet even these trumped “Freedoms”, & other supposed positives, are all self-serving delusional lies, ”

    Freedom is a delusional lie is it?

    http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2012/libya#.U05akBZiMy4

    You’d scream blue murder if you were blocked from Youtube.

  593. “Freedom is a delusional lie is it?”

    When it’s anything to do with that CIA front, yes.

  594. Kempe
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    Re: Amnesty International.

    The ‘trustworthy issue’ revolves around whether you can trust an organisation which says it doesn’t accept donations from governments, but does.

    “If we’re questioning the reliability of sources I not that the author of a Youtube video posted earlier, Ken O’Keefe, is a well known conspiracy fruitloop and associate of David Icke!”
    Posted by who? Not me.
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Libya was a democracy in name only” .
    “That’s just another opinion.”
    No it’s an established fact.”

    Who has established this fact? Not you. You can’t just keep saying that hoping repetition will make it true. Libya’s method of governance was direct democracy.

    Direct democracy is a form of democracy in which people decide policy initiatives directly, as opposed to a representative democracy in which people vote for representatives who then decide policy initiatives. …
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Democracy

    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    RE: child mortality figures
    “So you admit there’s no evidence to support your claim. The country has just fought a civil war so figures might dip for a year or two before getting back to normal. That’s my prediction for what it’s worth.”
    I ‘admitted it’ in my initial post on the subject. Here it is again: “The situation is now so chaotic that no figures are available. But it is certain that mortality rates will have risen dramatically. Already, parts of Libya are being compared to Iraq’s Fallujah for deformed baby rates due to Depleted Uranium.”
    It was part of my point that Libya has been reduced to such chaos that statistics are no longer available.So, you think the figures will be back to normal in a couple of years. That’s ridiculous. You think this isn’t going to affect the figures? …

    “In Libya now being recorded by the WHO (world health organization), the highest deformation in fetuses inside Libya and reached 23% of newborns and also the high incidence of new forms of cancer that were not known among ordinary Libyans and now amounting to 18% of the total of cancers that have been diagnosed by the organization’s branch in Libya .”

    http://nuclear-news.net/2014/03/01/birth-deformities-cancers-in-libya-as-result-of-depleted-uranium-weapons/
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    “Iraq was very different. Libya is not subject to occupation by foreign military forces and doesn’t suffer from the internal divisions that are causing the problems in Iraq. I’ve always said the invasion of Iraq was a grave error and my opinion hasn’t changed.”

    You didn’t answer the question. Do you believe the average Iraqi has benefited from Western intervention?”
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    Re: links to censorship and fear of execution for political activity.
    I asked for ‘reliable sources’. Yours are propaganda outlets, used to justify the NATO bloodbath in Libya. For example they repeatedly call Gaddafi a dictator.
    Gaddafi wasn’t a dictator:
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator‎
    “A dictator is a ruler who does not rule through democratic means. …”
    As established above, Libya was a democracy. Your sources’ repeated use of the term ‘dictator’ is incorrect and proof that they put propaganda before truth. Here are short quotes from your links:
    “After the fall of dictator Muammar Gaddafi, Libya has seen a flourishing of new media outlets and NGOs.”
    and
    “Like most countries that are ruled by a dictator free speech is not allowed in Libya”
    and
    “A telling example of just how much of a threat the internet can be to a dictator is”
    #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#
    Unless you reply with anything too outrageous to ignore (a distinct possibility) I’ll leave this discussion there. We aren’t going to agree, but thank you for discussing it with me. We’ve each set out our stall. I leave it to any passing observers to judge who made the more plausible case.

  595. Kempe; “Freedom is a delusional lie is it?”

    Do you always have difficulty following points in an exchange ?!

    The lies I referred to are the ones that “Humanitarian Bombers” like yourself, keep repeating to yourselves in complete denial of reality; there is no “freedom” in either “liberated” Libya or Iraq; to claim that there is simply willful ignorance or plain deceit, that entails refusing to acknowledge the hideously grotesque reality; try to get an overall balance view by looking up the state of “freedom” iro political, religious, press, human rights, & women’s, etc, etc in either country now, otherwise it’s impossible to have a meaningful debate with somebody who is so uniformed about the subject being discussed; to get you started, here’s a few random links that Google provided when I enquire about “political freedom in Libya;

    http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/16219/libya%E2%80%99s-revolution-will-not-stop-until-we-have-fre

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/libya-politicians-face-death-penalty-over-blasphemous-cartoon-2014-02-27

    https://en.rsf.org/libye-freedom-of-information-in-jeopardy-30-01-2014,45805.html
    http://www.religionnews.com/2014/01/10/christians-libya-cast-anxious-eye-religious-freedom/

    “You’d scream blue murder if you were blocked from Youtube”

    Now you go from being unbelievably uninformed to ludicrously obscene; this is your answer to all the factors that I listed in my previous reply, and how right I was to state that “they don’t count” ; don’t you even think through what you write ? Are you really saying that I, or anybody for that matter, , would think that internet access has any value, or even any meaning, after having suffered the carnage, & the failed state miserly & violence that is now blighting the lives of the Libyans or Iraqis ?

    I’m glad that you tried to support your pov with a link, because it neatly illustrated what people like you, who are so detached from reality, are forced to do; they ignore the overwhelming acknowledge & accepted reality, and seek out an agenda driven pov that fits into their counter-factual world view; so when your link is examined, we find surprise, surprise, that it’s a US Government funded NGO, that it specializes in meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nations, that it seeks to engineer the overthrows of what they, ie the US, consider “un-democratic governments”, that it was selected by the State Department to receive funding for ‘clandestine activities’ inside Iran, that irony of present ironies, in 2004 it channeled US funds in Ukraine to aid the then presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko ! Yet there’s more, and directly concerning this Blog;

    “The executive director of Freedom House, a Washington-based organization that monitors political rights and civil liberties, tells him in 2003 that the group has decided to back off from its efforts to spotlight human rights abuses in Uzbekistan. The shift in policy occurred, she explains, because some Republican board members (in Murray’s words) “expressed concern that Freedom House was failing to keep in sight the need to promote freedom in the widest sense, by giving full support to U.S. and coalition forces”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/McKelvey2-t.html?_r=0

  596. BrianFujisan

    17 Apr, 2014 - 2:07 am

    Here’s one i made up Earlier….

    But thing is you just can’t make this stuff up… FFS

    Security Council members and other countries alike should express support for a referral of the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court (ICC). They should impress on reluctant Council members, in particular Russia and China, the urgency of taking up the issue of accountability for crimes committed by all sides.

    “For victims in Syria who have known nothing but suffering, despair and abandonment, the ICC would open up the hope of justice and redress,” said Richard Dicker, international justice director at Human Rights Watch. “It would also send a warning to those responsible for grave crimes on all sides that their day in court may be coming.”

    one can get fed up fighting with these Cnts…But not yet

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/14/un-security-council-support-justice-syria

  597. Macky, if the internet is so unimportant why do oppressive regimes go to such great lengths to prevent their citizens having full access to it?

    As far as the conditions in Libya and Iraq are concerned might I quote something you said about Russia?

    ” Despite its long history, Russia is at an early stage of development in economic terms and new systems and the embeddedness of them takes time. “

  598. ” We’ve each set out our stall. I leave it to any passing observers to judge who made the more plausible case. ”

    Indeed.

  599. Kempe; “Macky, if the internet is so unimportant why do oppressive regimes go to such great lengths to prevent their citizens having full access to it?”

    You really do have a problem following a debate; I did not say that the internet per se was unimportant, but that for the newly “liberated” Libyans & Iraqis, whose countries have been bombed & set-back decades, whose entire civil & commercial infrastructure has been destroyed, who find themselves struggling to survive among the daily carnage of the resulting “Humanitarian” aftermath, etc, etc, that internet access a) would not seem to be on their list of concerns at all, b) but even if it was top of their lists, to try to argue that having internet access in any way mitigates what they had to suffer, and still are suffering, is truly beyond surreal.

    “As far as the conditions in Libya and Iraq are concerned might I quote something you said about Russia?”

    I would be most grateful that if you are going to quote me on something that I said, you don’t attribute other people’s words as my own, for I have no idea where you got that quote from, but I do know that it is something I have not stated.

  600. “I have no idea where you got that quote from ”

    Apologies, it was Herbie on the “UK Moves..” thread.

    Good point though.

  601. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 Apr, 2014 - 7:37 pm

    A Node re St Gaddafi

    “Unless you reply with anything too outrageous to ignore (a distinct possibility) I’ll leave this discussion there. We aren’t going to agree, but thank you for discussing it with me. We’ve each set out our stall. I leave it to any passing observers to judge who made the more plausible case.”
    ____________________

    My vote goes to Kempe

  602. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 Apr, 2014 - 7:40 pm

    Macky squeals

    “Kempe; “Freedom is a delusional lie is it?”

    Do you always have difficulty following points in an exchange ?!”
    ____________________

    That’s rather rich, I must say, coming from someone once characterised by the honest Dreoilin as “not the sharpest blade in the drawer”.

    And while we’re at it, Kempe’s writing is streets ahead of yours.

  603. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 Apr, 2014 - 7:45 pm

    A Node

    “Libya’s method of governance was direct democracy.

    Direct democracy is a form of democracy in which people decide policy initiatives directly, as opposed to a representative democracy in which people vote for representatives who then decide policy initiatives. …”
    _________________

    Interesting. I should like to learn more from the horse’s mouth. So could you perhaps list a few of the policy initiatives which were decided by the people directly? Just a handful would do, together with back-up from reliable sources.
    Thanks.

  604. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    17 Apr, 2014 - 7:52 pm

    A Node

    Further to my question just above: Gaddafi’s sending lots of aid in the form of oil and money to the lovely Idi Amin, was that one of the policy initiatives decided by the people?

  605. You can almost feel the “Freedom” the Irqais are now enjoying; but no mention of the widespread & joyful use of the internet, funny that;

    http://news.yahoo.com/once-arab-model-baghdad-now-worlds-worst-city-171513551.html

  606. Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker

    17 Apr, 2014 - 11:16 pm

    It’s the synchronicity, Macky.

  607. Ben; “It’s the synchronicity, Macky”

    Just as well we didn’t post at the exact same time, otherwise it will be a new CT, you being me or I being you or we being both !! :D

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