So This is Self Defence? 197

Warning: This video is very upsetting

I realise some of you may have already seen this. But I feel an obligation to post it. The Israeli tactic of blocking all communication from the ship and detaining the passengers for days allowed Israeli doctored pictures to be the only ones broadcast by the mainstream news media. Despite the crudity of the tactic, the MSM have happily gone along with the idea that once alternative footage finally became available, it was no longer “news”.

We of the new media therefore have an obligation to do what little we each can to expose the lies, propaganda and twisted agenda of the mainstream media.

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197 thoughts on “So This is Self Defence?

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  • somebody

    Does anyone know that we have reached the stage in this country that the ConDems have just appointed the first ‘Post Holocaust Envoy’!?! Why?

    Appointee Sir Andrew Burns, former UK Ambassador to Israel and former chairman of the Anglo-Israel Association.

    Appointer Wm Hague who joined the Friends of Israel at the age of 15.

  • Craig

    As I have explained before, I have reason to know quite a lot about the death camps from first hand testimony.

    People should be allowed to argue the earth is flat, if they wish. But holocause denial is almost always accompanied by nasty racist views, so its just out.

    This is my site. You can post what you want on your site. I don’t want to stop you, nor do I think that David Irving should have been imprisoned. But I don’t want it on my site.

  • Arsalan

    Craig it I am not calling people who disagree with me a Nazi. Near enough everybody here disagrees with me, and I disagree with near enough everybody here.

    I call Micheal a Nazi because he has stated that all Muslim men Should be killed.

    So when I call him a Nazi it isn’t about me saying “Well that you say all Muslim men should be killed, I say they shouldn’t lets talk about it”.

    And he hasn’t just said it once, he says it over and over again.

    Posted by: Michael Petek at June 13, 2010 3:37 PM

    His forth point.

    Craig take that line, replace Jew with Muslim.

    Does it sound like a disagreement now?

    Or does it sound like Nazism?

    And you know he has said that same things many times, on many posts.

    I am not screaming Nazi the way those bastards scream antisemite.

    I am calling Nazis, Nazis when they call for the extermination of a whole people.

    And even though I disagree with Freeborn and co, I don’t consider what they/he does as crossing the line. If you used the same rule of holocoast denial on the Zionists, you would delete every post they make, because they always deny what ever Israel does, just before they justify it.

    Freeborn, has never done to the Zionists what they do to others. He has never called for bad things to happen to them the way the Zionists, especially Micheal calls for the extermination of all Muslim men.

    True he does his own side no service by those statements. But Angry and Larry have never disasociated themselves from it.


    I know the people who support the holocoast are against Muslims. And you can see them marching hand in hand waving Israeli flags while giving Nazi salutes all over the UK now. I have already put up pictures of Zionist/Nazi joint demonstrations enough times.

    Steelback has never expressed support for Hitler or Nazi Germany.

    I have never seen him do that, so I don’t think he is one of them.

    Larry and Michael on the other hand are.

    I have seen the Israeli flag waving Nazis express their support for Hitler.

    And Tech, I have put up enough links of real Jews for you to know they are real and not propoganda.

    I can’t be bothered to repast, just find the videos, pictures or their websites I have already pasted.

  • Clark

    Well said, Craig.

    Apostate / Steelback,

    you are selfish to divert threads towards your personal obsession, and you are dishonest to comment under multiple names.

    This site used to require registration in order to comment; it is now open. With freedom comes responsibility.

  • Clark


    permitting Zionists to post here serves a purpose; their arguments are demolished in public, and they are shown up as liars and supporters of violence.

    Apostate etc could contribute greatly by showing some restraint and using a single identity. He obviously is good at finding links and articles; I wish he’d keep to the matters in hand.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Goodnight, Arsalan. Sleep well, and sweet dreams. Drink up that melatonin, man. Don’t let the vampires through the glass.

    Meantime, for owls, vampire-hunters and for those in balmy westbound time-zones, a slightly tangential progression…

    This is an interesting piece from the often tediously metropolitan but still occasionally brilliant ‘New Statesman’ magazine on the massive and current infiltration of (especially) anti-corporatist activist groups by the booming private surveillance sector.

    The link’s from ex-Security Service (MI5) officer, Annie Machon’s site.

    I once met a man who told me that you can tell a spy by their eyes. Gaze deep…

    And after that somewhat dreamy interlude…

    1) Well, has anyone an answer to my question about whether or not the SIS sub-contracts wet jobs?

    2) Does anyone know where the SS office is in Glasgow? Is it near the new STV building by the Clyde River?

    Just out of interest.

    Goodnight, friends and foes… and may the spirit of Farrokh Bulsara be with you.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    A three-men panel led by former Israeli Supreme Court judge Yaakov Tirkel will vote on Monday to confirm their legitimacy.

    The others are Irish Noble Peace Prize winner David Trimble and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin.

    David Trimble is a member of the Pre-emption Attack Society (aka Henry Jackson Society) BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA (to quote Larry).

    Brigadier Ken Watkin is a recent convert to Zionism.

    What a load of fucking bollox!

    Has the UN lost its bottle?


    Feuding with Larry will ruin this blog – keep it Kosher!


  • Mac

    “Holocaust denial and racism are red lines.”

    Very commendable Craig, yet you allow Zionist trolls to deny the slow genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinians, and you allow racism against Arabs & prejudice against Muslims, to be continuously spouted by the aforementioned trolls.

    Holocaust denial, like all revisionist re-writes of history, is ugly, but so is censorship; we all know that the Holocaust Deniers have no credible case to make, but censoring them allows them to claim that not only they do have a case, but a case so powerful that it has to be censored. Far better to let them be judged by their agenda driven fantasies, so they can then be challenged and exposed with the ridicule they deserve.

    Having a blanket ban on the Holocaust, because of fears that your Site will be tainted by association, is a lazy and hypocritical cope-out, which plays into the hands of Zionists Apologists, who play upon Western guilt, and play upon the self-acclaim exclusiveness of everything Jewish. Instead, you (& others) should treat Holocaust Deniers with all the derision that you can muster in serious or witty put-downs. Clark, or anybody else, has a perfect prerogative to be offended, but not a right to deny others the opportunity to judge somebody by what they chose to reveal about themselves, and not the right in so doing, to prevent somebody from answering.

    If you can honestly claim that you would censor somebody claiming the Armenian Genocide is a hoax, or the genocides committed by Stalin or Pol Pot, or by the Belgians in the Congo, etc, etc, are all hoaxes, then your censoring would at least be consistent, if still intellectually lazy to the point of cowardliness, hiding behind moral indignation, however well justified such indignation is.

    Also I’ve noticed that it seems that debate on your various Posts, always seem to get derailed & side-tracked by people allowing themselves to be provoked by some of the regular & very nasty Islamophobic racists that your Site attracts; if people chose to grace such racists with the dignity of a respond, it would be helpful they could try to make an attempt to link, or revert back to the topic of the Post, because I suspect that the deliberate derailment of a Post, is the only reason why certain people post here.

  • Hatari

    @ Clark

    I agree with your comment that we must let all sides post here if the Zionist think they have a case or argument than let them articulate it so that it can than be taken apart forensically to expose their lies. The Israel supporters end up taking an intellectual pasting here so they either post and run not wishing to enter any discussion or resort to name calling. I do not think that the Israel sympathizers have persuaded any one with their arguments. They are as deluded as the Israeli Government Jester and story teller Regev.

  • BP

    A senior member of the Third Reich is killed towards the end of the war. He ascends to heaven to me met by St. Peter who checks his records.

    “I am afraid you can’t come in as it appears you are responsible for many unpardonable sins, including the murder of six million Jews.”

    “That is not true,” replied the indignant Nazi, “it was nearer to two million.”

    “Lucifer will be disappointed,” said St Peter before closing the gates.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    I forgot the link:

    Hatari & Mac I support the derailment argument which dilutes many succinct and powerful arguments here. I agree reluctantly on Holocaust analysis; a dear Polish friend of my mother lost his father in a Nazi concentration camp from malnutrition.

    Holocaust denial in strict terms is absurd but a deliberate Zionist conspiracy to advance the interest of Zionism at the expense of other peoples is well worth continued investigation and debate.

  • Clark


    I agree with your second point, but point out that it conflicts with your first point. If someone posts denying the Jewish holocaust, we can argue, thus derailing the thread, or we can let it pass, and be accused of antisemitism. I’d really rather Apostate amended his ways.

    Denial of other holocausts has not proven to be a thread-derailing issue, and in any case wouldn’t be seized upon by apologists for Israeli atrocities.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    As you may have guessed I am incensed by the by the statement from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office to, “investigate aspects related to the actions taken by the state of Israel to prevent vessels reaching the coast of Gaza.”

    Another white-wash in the same frame as the Hutton inquiry!

    I have written to Ban Ki-moon but feel we should do more.

  • Mac

    @ Clark, Not really a conflict between my two points as the first point is relating to the specific topic of the general Holocaust Denial censoring & its associated issues, whereas the second was specifically relating to blatant de-railing attempts, which normally are not Holocaust related. However if somebody does attempt to sabotage a thread by using Holocaust denial as a tactic, then it’s paradoxically important enough to be treated no differently than somebody claiming the World is being controlled by alien lizards, ie either a temporary derailment is warranted, but just enough to expose the lunacy involved, and then the crank can be dismissed/ridiculed/ignored thereafter.

    Also bear in mind that sometimes, some of the Holocaust Deniers are not the real thing, but Zionist Apologists engaged in the similar sort of mischief, as when they post under fake Muslim names, so they should be fairly easy to expose.

    I respectfully take issue with your second point, as I have witnessed many, many threads being derailed by those introducing genocide/atrocities denials, particularly in relation to the Armenians, to Iraq, the Balkans, even Cambodia. Further, Holocaust Denial that is repeatedly & effectively refuted is unlikely to be seized upon by Zionist Apologists.

    In a somewhat ironical manner these same Zionist Apologists are sometimes forced to aid in countering other genocide denials, as when they claim that what Israel is acting no different then the US/UK in Iraq, or when they now seek to hit back at Turkey over the Armenian Genocide, seemingly oblivious to the facts that Israel was the biggest cheerleader & supporter of the attack on Iraq, and that Israel has always refused to officially acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Mac: “regular & very nasty Islamophobic racists”

    What the flying fuck are you talking about?

    I’ve probably said some nasty things about suicidal martyr-seeking Muslim idiots, but only because they are just that.

    Stop whining and get real, Mac.

  • Neil Barker

    Eddie, you’re not supposed to question these things. Just accept that it shows what Craig and co. see in it.

    Only Zionist trolls would actually dare to question some of the amateurish propaganda on this site.

  • sandcrab

    Hey whiney Mac, lay off larry bin louis. You are clean out of your mind if you think his hundreds of little posts are just nasty hollow rotten TROLLSHIT.

    So love it up you fucking idiot!

  • glenn

    Neil: Would it not be a heck more convenient, had we been allowed to see _all_ the footage that day? I’m sure that, collectively, it would have shown the Israeli thugs to have been entirely benevolent, demonstrating the most tender-hearted restraint, and murdering people only as a most regrettable, and last moment, unavoidable response.

    What a shame that the Israeli authorities were forced to “confiscate” all incriminating evidence which would have shown the relief ships to be manned by filthy jihadists. How unfortunate that the IDF forgot to film their own heroic exploits, which would have settled the entire thing. Why don’t they just release the film and computers etc. of the hostages/ sorry, illegals who were subsequently “deported”?

    How terribly unfortunate that, despite all the “liberal media” going nowhere near the story and dropping it entirely down the memory hole now, we have not heard loudly enough about how benevolent and reasonable the IDF actually were. How they were _forced_ to kill unarmed people, and how tormented they are at having been put in that position. Just like a wife-beating husband cusses out a woman for “forcing” him to beat her, and making him feel bad as a consequence.

    How terrible that the Real News from the MSM has not told us how the heroic IDF actually prevented a dirty bomb/ nuke/ biological weapon etc. / from harming those poor, innocent, beset “settlers” trying to scratch out a living in their Biblical-times traditional way. (Helicopter gunships, F-16s, white phosphorous, cluster-bombs and US billions of $$’s aside, this is Sunday-School olde Israel, folks! We’ve got to support them!)

    Such a shame that Israel acts with such restraint, that it has to restrain the truth – including all video evidence of course – when it comes to its own actions such as this. How the truth would set them free of any unjust criticism!

  • StefZ

    +100 for Clark’s comments

    Craig posts a link which raises questions about Israeli behaviour when boarding a vesel on the open seas

    …and, for the umpteenth time, someone tries to divert the comments underneath that thread to the subject of the Jewish holocaust – as sure a way of imploding a discussion thread as there is

    Cui bono? as the kind of people who spam other people’s blogs with their conspiratorial obsessions like to ask

    or, putting it another way, isn’t there somewhere else that the revionist and zionist trolls can f*** off to to talk about their favourite subject, for hour after futile hour, whilst everyone else can discuss the actual subject of the posts?

  • somebody


    Who needs an independent observer anyway?

    Re Israel’s investigation into itself, with ‘two impartial outside observers’, here’s one of them:

    Lord David Trimble,

    A true Friend if ever there was one –

    He has also written papers under the auspices of the Conservative Friends of Israel. He left the UUP and joined the Cons in 2007. Also a member of the Henry Jackson Society. Enough said.

    Little on Watkin, the other one. He was a Judge Advocate and there is some suggestion on Wiki that he had knowledge of torture being carried out on Afghan detainees. That has a familiar ring in the last NuLabour outfit doesn’t it?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Neil Barker, why (at 2.24am on 14th June 2010) did you refer to Larry as ‘Eddie’? Perhaps it was just a slip-up or rather, a Freudian slip. Or was there a post in between that got deleted?

    I realise that you will probably not stoop to addressing me, or answering any of the earlier questions which I put to you on various threads, since you have not deigned to respond to anything I have put to you, but I found it interesting and thought it worthy of being pointed out for itself and for the benefit of others.

    Oh, and “amateurish propaganda” is precisely what you have been purveying since you arrived, at the start of the ‘Mavi Marmara’ reportage.

  • vronsky

    Some denialism is of value. I once posted about the Sunstein Effect – the sudden realisation that something is true because of the source of the denial.

    For example, I had no idea that bin Laden was a CIA asset until ‘Larry’ told us he wasn’t.

  • Suspicious


    It’s a classic disinformation technique to simply turn up the volume of noise, so as to drown out reasonable discussion. It matters not which position someone is appearing to take either, as long as it’s factuous and creates distracting noise. Eventually we descend into accusations about who is paid to create the noise, paranoia sets in and any valuable discussion is lost in a flame war. That’s why the internet will never replace bodies in rooms. Although, of course, these techniques date back to before t’net.

  • Suspicious

    All I can suggest is disregarding on the basis of tonal quality, if that makes any sense. Don’t take part in lively debate.

  • Anonymous

    Our problem and the problem for Jews is the power and manipulative practices of their elites.

    Unfortunately the charge of ‘racism’ and ‘anti-Semite’ is one of the most powerful weapons in the arsenal of both Jewish and gentile elites , who share the same agenda.

    It is deeply ironic that the charge of ‘racism’ liberally applied (unfortunately) in a blanket and presumptive fashion by Craig (who appears to be a just and fair-minded man in every way, to the point of self-sacrifice) prohibits investigation of contentious issues (like ‘The Holocaust’) that act as the moral engine for easily the most racist state on earth.

    The guilt-complex installed in gentiles by this narrative gives more-or-less a free pass to Israeli savagery, as recent history demonstrates.

  • Steelback

    “Holocaust denial” a Red Line?

    We’re not talking about dividing up some bloody Saudi oilfield you know!

    We’re talking about elevating a contentious Zionist version of history to the level of a state religion.

    The man who stood on a soap-box a fortnight ago and declared Zionism was bullshit is happy to enforce Holocaust fundamentalism as the state religion.

    There’s no better illustration of the abject impotence of the PC establishment left than their willingness to be cowed by Zionist propaganda into endorsing its most powerful psychological weapon.

    If the case for the “Holocaust” taking the lives of 6m Jews during WW2 is sustainable it has to be subjected to the same scrutiny as any other event or genocide in history.

    Why is the “Jewish Holocaust” guaranteed sacrosanct status when the genocides in Turkey and Ukraine,and the Soviet gulag in which cadres of high ranking Jewish officials played the leading role are officially off the radar?

    Perhaps Mr Murray needs reminding that up to 60m non-Jews died as a result of WW2.That war like WW1 was regarded as a price worth paying by the Zionist bankers who helped orchestrate it in order that Israel be created.

    Oh,I forgot you want us to stick to another red line that enforces denial of the fact that the likes of Warburg and Schiff played decisive roles in wars and revolutions.

    That’s right we’ve got to stick to the cock-up theory of history!

    The Zionists need to fight their corner not cower behind the PC left who do their bidding.

    Let’s hear them make the Holocaust case shall we?

    They can’t. The whole edifice is a flimsy deck of cards that comes tumbling down as soon as it’s exposed to the same public scrutiny as other historical events.

    By the way before we lock up Bishop Williamson shouldn’t we prosecute Churchill,Ike and De Gaulle posthumously for forgetting to mention the Holocaust in their memoirs?

    Even my local paper which ran a Holocaust fundamentalist article allowed readers who disagreed with it the right of reply.

    What’s the matter with you,Mr Murray?

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