So This is Self Defence? 197


Warning: This video is very upsetting

I realise some of you may have already seen this. But I feel an obligation to post it. The Israeli tactic of blocking all communication from the ship and detaining the passengers for days allowed Israeli doctored pictures to be the only ones broadcast by the mainstream news media. Despite the crudity of the tactic, the MSM have happily gone along with the idea that once alternative footage finally became available, it was no longer “news”.

We of the new media therefore have an obligation to do what little we each can to expose the lies, propaganda and twisted agenda of the mainstream media.


197 thoughts on “So This is Self Defence?

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  • Mac

    “What the flying fuck are you talking about?

    I’ve probably said some nasty things about suicidal martyr-seeking Muslim idiots, but only because they are just that.

    Stop whining and get real, Mac.”

    @Larry, Appropriately for an attention seeking egoist, you assume that I was specifically referring to you, but since you crave the spotlight, then yes you do indeed say such things as “suicide-loving culturally insane Muslim compatriots”, and then try to claim that you are not referring to all Muslims, but just the “terrorists”. As convincing and as damning as the stereotype Racist who says, “I’m not a racist, but… .”

    Anyhow your derailing is not just confined to racism, but to your incessant attempts to sabotage any debate with your favourite twin baiting smears of accusing people of either being anti-Semitic, and/or a Conspiracy Nut. That this is normally the sum total of your “contributions” to most debates, and that you rarely address any of the points being made directly to you, also speaks volumes.

    For example on the “Mavi Marmara: Footage Hidden From the Israelis” thread, as a defender of the Israeli version of the Flotilla attack, and a denouncer of those who cited glaring contradicts, I specifically sought your opinion on two issues that I provided inks to; the first was to the (Times) reported testimony of the “Hero” Commando who murdered six civilians, whose account directly contradicted the official Israeli version, as in;

    “He told The Times that he pulled out his 9mm Glock pistol.

    Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns, and that the empty 9mm casings were proof that the humanitarian activists had brought guns with them. Oops, someone forgot to tell Sergeant S. Then, of course, Michael Oren parroted a recital of this “evidence” on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, unchallenged by any differing opinions or contradictory testimony, as usual.”

    http://www.hybridstates.com/2010/06/testimony-of-rogue-commando-who-killed-six-civilian-activists-further-undermines-official-idf-story/

    I also linked to an article hosted by the NYT, reporting the testimony of the Turkish doctor who treated and took care of the three captured Israeli Commandos, complete with photos, in total contrast to the mad murdering jihadists picture that you & Israel tried to paint the activists as, and that also belies the “lynching” justification that Israel tried to use.

    http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/turkish-doctor-describes-treating-israeli-commandos-during-raid/

    Of course you chose not to respond to these points, but chose to pursue a derailing conversation about where you may be based, and whetever you are behind various Right Wing Sites or not; not exactly the rational behaviour of somebody who genuinely is interested in discussing the issues of Craig’s Post, but more in line with the behaviour of somebody whose sole motivation is thread derailment.

  • Larry from St. Louis

    Mac, yes, I make fun of suicidal martyrdom-seeking Muslims. That hardly makes me racist.

    Who else here has been racist?

  • Larry from St. Louis

    vronsky: “For example, I had no idea that bin Laden was a CIA asset until ‘Larry’ told us he wasn’t.”

    There we see the standard of evidence for a truther.

    You apparently are another person who thinks I’m a government agent. Hilarious.

  • McIntyre

    “I make fun of suicidal martyrdom-seeking Muslims. That hardly makes me racist.”

    You have attacked anyone here whom you have decided is a Muslim. In fact you have reserved your most bitter insults for them, despite none of them showing the slightest sign of wanting either suicide or martyrdom. Stop lying, Larry. The archives exist and can be seen by anyone.

    The point of exposing your own site, is to show the world the horrible Islamophobic comments you have tolerated and encouraged there — along with right-wing war mongering and general sneering at Arabs and/or Muslims.

    You’re no Government agent. You’re a bigheaded liar who thinks you know everything. Thatisall.

  • StefZ

    This may be difficult for some people to understanding, but shooting people in the back of the head on boats is a questionable practice, regardless of what did or didn’t happen seventy odd years ago

    It doesn’t matter if it were sixty or six million killed in the Jewish holocaust. If it were done with gas or with bullets. Whatever the specifics, none of it justifies murder and genocidal state policies in the here and now

    Holocaust Revisionists essentially support the Zionist cause by implying that a 70 year old genocide *DOES* justify contemporary genocide, provided that the 70 year old genocide has been reliably documented.

  • Craig

    Steelback

    “Perhaps Mr Murray needs reminding that up to 60m non-Jews died as a result of WW2.That war like WW1 was regarded as a price worth paying by the Zionist bankers who helped orchestrate it in order that Israel be created.”

    Absolute nonsense. That really is lunatic conspiracy theory, and very reminiscent indeed of Nazi anti-semitic propaganda of the 30s.

    Of course bankers make money out of wars. They still do, as do arms manufacturers, the militray and the burgeoning “security” industry. Of course some of those people sometimes press for war.

    But to believe that World Wars 1 and 2 were fomented by a cabal of zionists, you really have to be warped by racial hatred. Which I am convinced you are.

  • ingo

    I have heard some murmours from our special envoy Blair this morning, desperately trying to sound in charge.

    Apparently he is in touch with the Israeli’s and they might just ease the land blockade so he promises, well, maybe.

    He says that the sea blocakde will not be given up and there will be no autonomous habour established,according to his sanitised version.

    A throughout stumbling delivery the war criminals solution to more trouble and strife.

    Can Mr. Blair not see that there is no credence left for a nation that has thouroughly flouted international law, murdered people and challenged NATO’s doctrine?

    And thats just in the last two weeks, dare I speak of the last six decades of waisted UN time and resolutions, or Israels inability to live in peace with its neighbours.

    My apologies for not indulging or taking part in this slanging match some folks seem to have with themselves on here, just to wind us all up, multiple personality disorders is such a rott.

  • JOHN

    Where is Hilary Clinton? If someone farts in Iran she is all over the tv condemming it and threatening sanctions, here we have 9 people murdered in international waters and she is no were to be seen.

  • somebody

    Do you mean SHILLary Clinton John?

    Mac @ 9am ‘Yesterday, however, we were informed by a navy officer that navy commandos don’t carry 9mm guns..’

    If they were not commando weapons, whose were they? Have you any further info? 29 of the 30 bullets pumped into the nine victims were 9mm calibre.

  • Arsalan

    There are two types of people who I disagree with here.

    There are people like steelback and co, who I will debate with to try and convince.

    I will try and tell him he is wrong to get him to believe what I believe is right. but it will all be good natured.

    There are somethings everyone here says that I disagree with, and we can debate, to change each other’s views or agree to disagree.

    And the are the Larrys and Micheal, the Zionists and haters. I wont try and convince them, because I believe they don’t need convincing. They believe in death and destruction. they are evil people who call for evil. They know what Israel does is evil, so we don’t need to convince them of that. They already know it. They support Israel because Israel is evil.

    With them, I just condemn them. Or mock them.

    Or state to everyone else that they are Nazis.

    And Larry don’t pretend, that you only Bombers. Michael has made it clear that he wants ever Muslim man dead, and when he says fighters, he means each and every Muslim man.

    He has said it many times.

    And Larry the Turks who were shot to death weren’t sucide bombers. Yet you fight them and support there deaths. So don’t pretend you are something you are not. You are a hater, a Nazi, a Racist and a Murderer.

    That is your be all and end all.

    There is nothing good about you, and everything bad about you.

  • Craig

    The guy who killed five or six of the activists and is touted for a meadl, gave an interview to the Times in which he specifically says he used a Glock 9mm. Maybe someone could dig it up.

    Who do you think shot them then? Santa Claus?

  • Tony

    Tony Blair is yesterday’s man. If he told me it was raining outside I would not look for an umbrella.

    Go away and count your money, Mr. Blair. Your pension fund probably contains about 20p for each of the civilian deaths on your hands. You set a low bidding price on your soul and sold it on EBay to the joint highest bidders – Zionist Israel and to the Bush/Cheney Company. Things did not work out well for Dr. Faustus, nor will they for you most probably.

  • Arsalan

    Micheal and Larry what are you?

    What do you do, other then try to spread hate while defending murder?

    Don’t you have any concern about your after lives, or have you moved so far in to evil that you have given up on that?

    What Good have you ever done?

    You might disagree with Craig and me, but you know we are people trying to work for Good.

    Craig lost his Job because he defended people being boiled alive. whether you think people being boiled alive is a good thing or a bad thing. You must admit what he tried to do was a good thing?

    Een though Michael, you believe every Muslim man should be killed. Don’t you believe me sending medical supplies on the flatila was a good thing?

    What good have you two ever done?

    I know you two are Zionist trols, and you are probably getting paid per post, but don’t you have a conscience?

    Don’t you feel bad about what you say?

    Don’t you have a naging voice at the back of your head tell you to leave evil and walk towards good?

    Don’t you feel bad about what you do, say and write?

    Don’t you look at your life and think to yourself, what have I ever done, other than try to upset people? Call for death?

    When I go to bed at night, I know I have made the world a better place during the day.

    Or at least tried to do so.

    So when you go to bed, what do you think about yourself. Is the world better because you are alive, or would it be better if you were dead?

    Other than posting horrible things on the internet, what do you do?

    People here already know what I do. I work with chairities to help people. I help disabled and dying children and their parents.

    That is who I am.

    I look after my children so my wife can go to hospitals to save the lives of Mothers and babies.

    I’m an engineer, a teacher and a scientist, I use each role to try and improve the world for others.

    What are you? what do you do?

    Today I don’t regard myself as a very good Engineer and Scientist, my supervisor just riped me a new one because my research was so rubbish.

    But at least I tried.

    So what do you try and do, other then get people to hate each other?

    So what do you do?

    What is good about you?

  • angrysoba

    “Do you mean SHILLary Clinton John?”

    Oh come on, now!

    You mean Billary Clinton, don’t you?

    She certainly never went to my shill school.

  • StefZ

    Here’s another rmention of Glock 9mms from the Jerusalem Post

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445

    this article also mentions that the Israeli commandos fired warning (sic.) shots before rappelling down onto the deck of the boat

    I mention this because Larry mentioned that the loons who comment on this bog were still clinging onto the ‘delusion’ that the Israelis fired their weapons before boarding the boats

    the jp article also explains that people not moving when explosions go off is a sure sign that they are well trained terrorists and therefore deserving of being shot (in the back of the head)

    presumably, if those activists had moved that would have made them poorly trained terrorists and equally deserving of summary execution

  • Arsalan

    So who is paid, who does it for free?

    Thought-police is here

    Rona Kuperboim slams Foreign Ministry’s plan to hire pro-Israel talkbackers

    Rona Kuperboim

    Published: 07.10.09, 13:11 / Israel Opinion

    The Foreign Ministry unveiled a new plan this week: Paying talkbackers to post pro-Israel responses on websites worldwide. A total of NIS 600,000 (roughly $150,000) will be earmarked to the establishment of an “Internet warfare” squad.

    The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language and who study communication, political science, or law ?” or alternately, Israelis with military experience gained at units dealing with information analysis.

    Beyond the fact that these job requirements reveal a basic lack of understanding in respect to the dynamics of the online discourse ?” the project’s manager argued that “adults don’t know how to blog” ?” they are not too relevant either. An effective talkbacker does not need a law degree or military experience. He merely needs to care about the subject he writes about.

    The sad truth is that had Israeli citizens believed that their State is doing the right thing, they would have made sure to explain it out of their own accord. Without being paid.

    Foreign Ministry officials are fighting what they see as a terrible and scary monster: the Palestinian public relations monster. Yet nothing can be done to defeat it, regardless of how many foolish inventions will be introduced and how many bright communication students will be hired.

    The reason is that good PR cannot make the reality in the occupied territories prettier. Children are being killed, homes are being bombed, and families are starved. Yet nonetheless, the Foreign Ministry wants to try to change the situation. And they have willing partners. “Where do I submit a CV?” wrote one respondent. “I’m fluent in several languages and I’m able to spew forth bullshit for hours on end.”

    Anti-democratic initiative

    Any attempt to plant talkbacks online must fail. Especially if the State is behind it. Not only because it’s easy to identify responses made on behalf of someone, but also because it’s anti-democratic. When the Israel Electric Company or other companies do it, it’s annoying. Yet when the State does it, it’s dangerous.

    Imposters on behalf of the government are threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means.

    Something worrisome is happening here lately. We see the accumulation of silencing attempts. The Nakba Law, the bill calling for a ban on protests outside the homes of politicians, Lieberman’s Loyalty Law, and the biometric information database. The free speech hunting season is on.

    Thankfully we have the Internet, and it enables us to identify processes, discuss them, warn about them, and join forces against them. We can assume that soon we’ll see the establishment of a website opposed to this new initiative, unless such site already exists. Perhaps even a group on Facebook. I wonder whether all its members will be Foreign Ministry agents, or whether it will also include some real people.

    This is not a police state: This is a thought-police state.

  • somebody

    Notice that the shock from a shot to the torso blasts the brain tissue. Nice one Netanyahoo.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum

    From the Wikipedia page on the Glock pistol. Paragraph Development –

    2. 2.The pistol must fire the NATO-standard 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge

    What was the different bullet found in the autopsies and who fired it? Talk of dual nationalities with the IDF esp Australians. See Paul McGeough Fairfax media who was on the flotilla.

    Anybody know how to see the autopsy reports?

  • Anonymous

    Posted by: anonymous at June 14, 2010 1:40 PM

    Racist is what Israel says it is, and it isn’t, what Israel says it isn’t.

    Israel decides what we can talk about and what we can not.

    They choose all of these things because they claim to be choosen.

  • Steelback

    Mr Murray

    You are utterly out of your depth now.

    How the hell can you deny-or for the benefit of your Zionist audience pretend not to know-that a cabal of Zionist bankers led by the Warburgs hijacked the Federal Reserve in 1913?

    Knowing none of this history whatever perhaps you missed the fact that the Great War started the following year in 1914 and J.P.Morgan, agents for the Rothschilds, bank-rolled the British war effort.

    Despite having promised the American people that the US would remain neutral President Wilson, who was controlled by the same cabal of Zionist bankers and their agents, intervened on the British side in 1917.

    The year before with the British war effort disintegrating and Germany winning the war Balfour was persuaded to make the British commitment to the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

    In return Zionist financiers promised to use their considerable influence with the US government to bring the US into the war on the British side.

    With a big German push anticipated early the following year the French High Command were mortified to discover in 1916 that British were diverting 250,000 troops to the Middle East! Their mission was to wrest Palestine from the Turks and fulfill the promise made to the Zionists.

    At Versailles the Zionist banking cabal who controlled Wilson,Lloyd George and most of the other leading players orchestrated the terms of a settlement that guaranteed that WW2 would follow.

    As to the Second World War I can only guess which Boys Own version of this event is the one you would like to draw a red line around! However if you bothered to do the research you would find that the same cabal of Zionist bankers were intent on instigating a second conflagration. And they had made sure that certain political figures were in place to bring this about.

    I really can’t believe you’re being so adolescent and wet about documented historical facts.

    The idea I’m a racist because I believe Zionist bankers planned two world wars is risible.

    Since when have Zionist bankers constituted racial group?

    I think you’re playing to the gallery,Mr Murray and that you’ve exposed yourself as a charlatan in the process.

    You might win some applause from the Zionist shills who are pulling your strings and who you have allowed to hijack this comment board.

    You might even convince your Israeli lobby friends among the political class that you’re safe to employ in a new role (LOL-get real) but a lot of people will have seen you for what you are.

    Someone who pretends he’s a liberal but employs blanket censorship against anyone who challenges Zionist propaganda.

    Someone who pretends he’s offering alternative news commentary when in fact he’s gate-keeping for the Zionist version of history and is merely an extension of the corporate media.

    Next time you get on a soap-box and scream about Zionism being bullshit-we will know you don’t mean it but your lobby friends may not.

  • Apostate

    Craig

    Have you got History “O” level?

    Are you not aware that the Rothschilds have a history of financing BOTH sides of wars? They did it during the American Revolution,the Napoleonic wars,and have been doing it ever since.

    Are we supposed to believe the Rothschilds are not Zionist bankers?

    Get real!

    Have you not worked out that Zionist bankers control the Fed, Bank of England, IMF, World Bank, UN, WHO , and BIS?

    Last I heard only N.Korea,Iran,Sudan,Cuba and Libya were the only countries left in the world without Rothschild-controlled central banks.

    Is that cock-up theory too?

    Do you seriously believe that if Palestinians ran the Fed rather than the Zionists they’d be rotting in Gaza,the West Bank and refugee camps across the Middle East today?

    If you do-you’re no use to the anti-Zionist Palestinian cause whatever.

    We can do without such an abject failure to analyse and research facts that are NOT conspiracy theory as you would have your readers believe but verifiable facts in the public domain.

    I’m not remotely racist either,by the way!

  • tungsten

    I can’t believe the crass willed blindness to historical facts shown by Craig Murray.

    Senator Norman Dodd during the Reese-Dodd committee hearings into tax-exempt foundations found that Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Trustees had debated at length by what means US society could be transformed in the direction desired by the financial elites.

    The minutes showed that they had finally resolved that only by involving America in a series of major wars could the changes they desired be wrought.

    The Carnegie Endowment began taking steps to control the State Department.They set up the Council of Learned Societies which begat the CFR and has controlled appointments to the State Department ever since.

    The history Craig Murray pretends is “conspiracy theory” is actually inconveniently for him,his Zionist trolling pals,and people he’s desperate to impress among the Zionist lobby political class ON THE RECORD and IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

    The internet the Zionists want to shut down means-notwithstanding the gate-keeping and censorship of Craig Murray- they can’t hide their complicity in all the most disastrous human tragedies of the last two centuries.

    P.S. Don’t call me racist either or I’ll call you a charlatan!

  • TheA1mighty

    Mr David. Holocaust denial is best ignored. Why bother bringing it up ? . I don’t think anyone here denies the holocaust.

    But what is up for discussion, is why does Israel currently ignore International law ?

  • Freeborn

    “To believe two world wars were fomented by a cabal of Zionist bankers you really have to warped by racial hatred”

    I really couldn’t believe I read this from someone who purports to know something re-world history and foreign affairs.

    What an utterly fatuous accusation to make?

    Zionist bankers are not a race. How the Hell can someone who fingers the elite financial interests behind wars and revolutions be deemed a racist?

    Surely a grown man must know this. The

    Frankfurt/Freudian school bullshit propaganda you’ve swallowed whole is now spewing forth uncontrollably.

    Trotsky and Lenin were tools of the Zionist bankers. Trotsky married into “the family”. The Zionist bankers financed the Bolsheviks,Hitler and the war-mongers who were hot for both World Wars.

    Who the Bejeez do you imagine Karl Marx was? Father bloody Christmas?

    What the Hell do you think the internet is for?

    Some sort of social networking/dating site?

    How can anybody be so pathetically naive and ill-informed?

    The information is out there now. It’s too late for you to try and pretend you can turn back the tide by censoring out the facts.

    To be quite honest,Craig Murray,I find your assumption that anyone who refuses to subscribe to Holocaust fundamentalism or points to the prime role played by Zionist bankers in wars and revolutions is a racist patently absurd.

    Much of the literature pertaining to both the said historical phenomena has been written by Jewish researchers who like all truly independent writers seek to disentangle truth from propaganda.

    To assume that ideas which you are so brain-washed you can’t get your head around come from the basest of motives puts you in the same intellectual league as Larry and the shills on this site who prey on your vulnerability to recycle their propaganda.

    If you think you’re maintaining your credibility with our thoroughly discredited political class and that they might make future use of you-I think your vanity and self-deception may be your undoing.

    With friends like Larry and the Zio-propagandists no-one will take you seriously again!

  • Richard Robinson

    “The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language”

    I love it.

  • Arsalan

    Richard Robinson

    You’d be surprised, it really is quite difficult to find someone in Israel who can speak a single language.

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