A Hard Night 284

I can’t pretend not to have been disappointed by the Clackmannanshire result, especially as I am here with some wonderful people who have put months and years of their lives into campaigning heart and soul.

But the count was fascinating. Professional Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem politicians working and socialising together and dressing the same. Tory ladies in pillar box red clothes and Lib Dem councillors in Labour Party rosettes. All braying and congratulating each other in the same voices, and looking smug and very happy together.

We are not winning tonight’s battle at the moment, but the battle lines have now become clearly defined between the single establishment of the media and all the political parties, and almost half the people – so far who want an alternative political structure. This is a stage in a process, and in its clarity and scale a major advance.

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284 thoughts on “A Hard Night

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  • Nick

    YouGov wasn’t a traditional exit poll, but it was

    a) done on the day of the election
    b) asking people who had voted about how they had voted, rather than asking potential voters about how they might vote
    c) pretty accurate to the result

    So think you’re splitting hairs MJ. Maybe YouGov is a front company set up by the Jewish Space Lizards dressed as humans who secretly run the world.

    Or maybe Yes just lost?? The idea that this government, who couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery, was able to rig the result so effectively is just bollocks.

  • Mary

    Israel’s Crimes in Gaza during Operation Protective Edge – Extraordinary session of the Russell Tribunal

    24-25 September – Brussels – Albert Hall and the European Parliament

    A few weeks ago, members of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine, outraged by Israel’s terrible assault on Gaza and its population, decided to start working on an extraordinary session of the Tribunal that will look into Israel’s Crimes (including War Crimes, Crimes against Humanity and the Crime of Genocide) during the still ongoing “Operation Protective Edge” as well as third States complicity.

    During this session, that will take place on one day in Brussels on 24th September, our jury, so far composed of Michael Mansfield QC, John Dugard, Vandana Shiva, Christiane Hessel, Richard Falk, Ahdaf Soueif, Ken Loach, Paul Laverty, Roger Waters, Ronnie Kasrils, Radhia Nasraoui and Miguel Angel Estrella will listen to testimonies from Paul Behrens, Desmond Travers, David Sheen, Max Blumenthal, Eran Efrati, Mads Gilbert, Mohammed Abou-Arab, Mads Gilbert, Paul Mason, Martin Lejeune, Mohammed Omer, Raji Sourani, Ashraf Mashharawi, Ivan Karakashian, Agnes Bertrand and Michael Deas.

    The jury will give its findings on 25th September in the morning during an international press conference at the International Press Center (IPC, Brussels). In the afternoon, the Jury will be received at the European parliament and address a message to the UN General Assembly for its reopening.

    To register for the session (free), email us your name and organisation at : rtpgazaatgmaildotcom

    Do mention if you are coming as a journalist and would like to record parts of the session.

    This tribunal is your tribunal, and we need your support to make it happen. The total budget for this session is 50 000 euros. We are working under an exceptionally tight deadline and raising this amount of money is going to be an uphill struggle. If you feel like contributing, or know people that might be able to, please contact us, or check our “support us” on http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com

    Looking forward to seeing you all in Brussels.

    In solidarity

    The RToP team.


  • Mary

    Don’t go Ruth please.

    They (the disrupters and trolls) will outnumber us. They are not at all gracious in victory are they? Quite a bitter crowd but I suppose that’s what they are – Bitter Together.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    @ Johnstone and Mary.

    Ruth’s post at 2:40 pm was confusing. Her last 2 paragraphs were a[n inadvertent?] quote from Trowbridge H. Ford at 1:38 pm. It was Trowbridge, not Ruth, who said “Bye, bye, and this time I really mean it,”

  • Ba'al Zevul

    So I will continue to argue against Orange tribalist bigotry and British Nationalist fanaticism today just like I didn’t yesterday.

    FIFY, you selfrighteous XXXX

  • Richard

    I commiserate with all those who worked so hard for so long in the genuine belief that they were doing what was right and best for their country and its people and were then defeated at the ballot box; it can’t be easy.

    However, since none of the many problems which are faced by the country are caused by Unionism, it still escapes me why separatism is deemed, in some quarters, to be the solution. All the real problems of the country haven’t gone away while we have been absorbed with this diversion. Separatism, which by its nature is regressive, has been the wrong solution to the wrong problem at the wrong time. By implication, it grants more consideration to someone who has lost their job in Dundee than to another who has lost his job in Doncaster or Derry, so I am equally bemused by this rigid and inflexible fixation on an line drawn across the island by long-dead kings.

    ” almost half the people – … want an alternative political structure”.

    Well, unless MilliCleggeron do an amazing volte face which will cost them the Union anyway, that’s what all the people are going to get whether they voted for it or not – though curiously, this particular ‘democratic deficit’ (democratic amplification may be more accurate) passes without comment by people who affect such concern for certain sections of the voting public in other circumstances. So the thing to do is get involved and help to mould it in a way that will benefit all of us.

    But I would point out that the country is run by homicidal, venal and self-interested kleptocrats. So while the administrative structures are important, if we keep the same people – or types of people – in charge, it won’t make any practical difference. Power steering and a.b.s. are nice, but they are useless if there’s a maniac behind the wheel. The enemies of new and sensible policies are the gate-keepers of the main, established parties who bar entry (ie. candidate selection) to all but carbon copies of what already graces the benches of parliament. This recent experience, which no doubt has been bruising to many of us, is an opportunity for change. But if we keep the old lot in charge it will be an opportunity wasted.

  • rspo

    Quoth Ruth: “I understand the ballot papers were numbered at the polling stations. But were the postal votes numbered?”

    Yes, the postal ballot papers were numbered too.

    I haven’t been at a count myself, but I suspect they will check them off against a list of issued numbers. Don’t know of they compare the signature with the one they have on record or if they just retain for any later check…

  • flower

    Posted earlier from Les (see below). Please scrutinise this film. It is not what they say it is. Look for repeats of movements ie film cut and pasted. The only reason I can see for someone cellotaping a No notice on a table is to orgainise where the papers went. Obviously to me, they used what they needed (they were probably the other side of the table), and ignored the simple (not lega) notices.

    This kind of whipping up of conspiracy theory is not needed. I was disappointed at 4 am this morning but glad the split was not like in Canada so close.

    Les Wilson

    19 Sep, 2014 – 10:53 am

    Craig the smoking gun we need to see. It is very important, and MUST be shared.
    Please look everyone and get it out there.

  • Jon

    Hi Richard,

    Separatism, which by its nature is regressive, has been the wrong solution to the wrong problem at the wrong time

    I’ve disagreed with quite a few people, each nominally of the left, on this very issue. Of course collaboration and working “better together” are good things, in general. They sound warm and fluffy, which makes the sweeping generalisation that they are always “good” so easy to say. But, self-determination is a pretty good thing too, and in this case the two go in opposite directions. I put it to an acquiantance today that there’s not a single elected Tory in the whole of the Scottish region, but that place – which tends to think of itself as a country, even amongst No voters – has a Tory PM and a cabinet intent on forcing neoliberal ideas on a region that has plainly rejected them.

    I think the locus of Scottish politics is in the beneficient state, and in particular free healthcare and higher education, but Scots are not able to disengage with London millionaires who would privatise the lot. To be fair, the 45% Yes will strengthen the hand of the moderate Scottish left, so I suspect the short term threat to the Scottish welfare state may be averted. It is frustrating that such protection does not extend south of the border!


    Ah, see above for the old dilemma of what motivates people’s vote. We are said to have a “sheeple” on one side – 55% stupid and/or cowardly voters slept-walked into a propaganda trap, cruelling extinguishing the dreams of the “enlightened” 45% who saw through the malice of the British state. Of course, it’s much more complex than that, and we do ourselves a disservice by oversimplifying it, in either direction. On the one hand it is tremendously naive to suggest that “Scotland has spoken” as if propaganda either didn’t exist or didn’t work – it would be like denying that the subversive state exists. Hopefully any commenter on this blog knows rather better than that!

    Equally, supporters of Yes here would do well to acknowledge that whilst propaganda can explain some of the No bloc, a portion of it was cast by decent and ordinary people who genuinely think well of the union. Indeed some No voters might hate the union and the Tories who run it, but felt in good conscience that a jump to independence was too risky. That’s fair enough, since each referenced their own perspectives and not ours, as they well ought. These are their mistakes to make. In any case, for someone in Glasgow in poor health or precarious employment, more democratic power may not be their most pressing difficulty.

    I was concerned well before the count about ballot fraud, especially amongst the votes coming in from the post. But, as unpleasant as the British security services are – and they certainly would rig any vote if they felt they could get away with it – I think a 10% swing would just be too hard to engineer. There are some here who express exasperation that someone was always going to challenge a No win on this basis – but as I mentioned on this blog earlier, the Yes campaign doesn’t have the machinery to perform this sort of fraud. (True, there are foreign services who might have obliged for their own political ends, but in the event of a Yes, would anyone have seriously entertained such an idea? I think that would be pretty far-fetched, even with my favourite conspiracy hat on).

    So, now there’s time for healing. Slugging it out between Yes and No here on this board will be counterproductive, and is not a reflection of the fence-mending we all should be wanting for Scotland itself. In any case, whilst No won the day, Yes has set up an incredible grass-roots campaign of impressive radicalism, which can set to some important tasks, such as defending the NHS. And even if that movement were to die tomorrow in the throes of deep dejection, Salmond and co can call upon London to deliver on their last-minute cross-party promises. I wonder if tax-raising powers are thought to be included in that package?

  • BrianFujisan

    Meant to say Node Thanks for the Feed What a bunch of Cnts.

    Sofia… Great to see ya back..and the nice poem.

  • Jon

    Hi BrianFujisan, yep, tis me! Thanks, and good wishes to you.

    Sigh – people still slugging it out on the newer threads? Oh dear!

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