It is a strange world where the passage I most agreed with came from the Iranian President:
Iraq, Syria and Yemen are all examples of crises being stoked through terror, extremism, violence, bloodshed, invasion and the indifference of the international community. They are similar examples displaying cases of displacement, homelessness and fleeing from the horrors of war and bombardment. Their problems have persisted because the international community has failed them and because of incorrect actions of newcomers to the region and naive trans-regional actors. Consequently, the wave of destruction has gone beyond the Arab world and reached the gates of Europe and the United States and has resulted in the destruction of the relics of civility and precious works of ancient civilizations and, more broadly, has resulted in the death of humanity.
We must not forget that the roots of today’s wars, destruction and terror, can be found in the occupation, invasion and military intervention of yesterday. If we did not have the US military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the US’s unwarranted support for the inhumane actions of the Zionist regime against the oppressed nation of Palestine, today the terrorists would not have an excuse for the justification of their crimes.
This is Sky’s lead.
Good on Jeremy.
Corbyn Attacks Blair Over Iraq War In Speech
Jeremy Corbyn says “brave British soldiers” were sent to Iraq “on a false prospectus” and warns against intervention in Syria.
‘Jeremy Corbyn has used his first major speech to hit out at Tony Blair over the Iraq War saying hundreds of brave British soldiers lost their lives without good reason.
The new Labour leader told the Labour Party Conference in Brighton that Britain had gone to war on “a false prospectus” in “defiance of the United Nations”.
He said the war had not helped the country’s national security and railed against British arms sales to other countries and the “fawning support” of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, which “abused their own citizens”.
He said: “It didn’t help our national security that, at the same time I was protesting outside the Iraqi Embassy about Saddam Hussein’s brutality, Tory ministers were secretly conniving with illegal arms sales to his regime.
“It didn’t help our national security when we went to war with Iraq in defiance of the United Nations and on a false prospectus.’
http://news.sky.com/story/1560973/corbyn-attacks-blair-over-iraq-war-in-speech
Were sectarian differences a problem in Iraq before the 2003 US invasion?http://usiraq.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000919
Quotes Yes and No.
“Republicofscotland I put to you, if capital punishment is the law of the land, which do you prefer;”
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Firstly Fedup, if the Iranian regime want to practice capital punishment, I’m sure they could be a little bit more discreet about it. Hanging someone from a crane in the middle of a busy thoroughfare isn’t exactly what I’d call proper and dignified.
There’s also the well documented case of the LGBT community being victimised.
LGBT rights in Iran have come in conflict with the penal code since the 1930s. Homosexuality is a crime punishable by imprisonment, corporal punishment, and often execution. Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.
Iran insists that it does not execute people for homosexuality, and that gay people who have been executed have either committed rape, murder, or drug trafficking. However, there were many notable cases where innocent homosexuals were executed, e.g. the execution of Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni.
RoS, Baal,
I am not a newspaper. I don’t claim to give a full news coverage of everything that’s happening. That appalling story is receiving, rightly, loads of coverage in both mainstream and internet.
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Craig I think you may have gotten the wrong impression, my comments were directed at other posters in aid of starting a dialogue on the matter.
RoS, remember Nixon’s even favoring democracy as long as he still won, as he even did in 1972 after seeing Wallace do so, who he urged to do, only having The Plumbers assassinate him after it proved most troublesome at the polls.
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Trowbridge H Ford.
Not forgetting how they got their name.
Meanwhile Bernie Sanders has taken the lead in the race to be the Democratic nominee for President of the USA. Mr Sanders is the longest serving independent in US congressional history.
Thanksgiving evening in 1972, David Young arrived home from his planning at the Special Investigative Unit, when his grandmother asked him, “What do you do at the White House?”, to which he replied, “I am helping the president stop some leaks”.
She replied, with astonishment, “Oh, you’re a plumber!” Young, Liddy and Hunt then put up a sign on their office with the title, “The Plumbers”. Soon it was taken down, because their covert operations were supposed to be top secret but the name stuck for the group.
Republic of Scotland, you are right about Obama’s hypocrisy. There is no moral difference between dead children arising from Syrian barrel bombs and his own drones on whose button rests his finger. There is nothing to choose between leaders who anoint themselves as judge, jury and executioner in direct contempt of the law, to murder, maim and torture innocent people. Obama and Cameron too, are shoulder to shoulder with Gaddafi, Saddam, Assad, Netanyahu and those blood thirsty despots in Saudi Arabia.
The sickener is that as participants in UK democracy we are guilty too, all tarred with Cameron’s criminal brush.
RobG “3.38pm.
I think the Labour Party will need more healing than me! I am on the mend. Thanks to all the good vibes sent to me.
Thanks for the link.
Ba’al : “Sunni/Shi’a, the differences are, to one not of the faith, apparently trivial.”
Indeed, and as you say, they often live alongside each other perfectly well. They did so in Iraq, and intermarried, prior to our invasion and occupation. Slight religious differences are great for a divide-and-conquer strategy, look at the Protestants and Catholics, and various other sects of Christianity, for hatred and violence a lot closer to home.
Any small and inconsequential difference in race, skin colour, religion or political persuasion is enough to make them the “other”, whip up fear and the results are often terrible. It must be a part of the our nature, to accept this dehumanising “otherness” so readily.
Right, RoS, tough there were several others involved, apparently William King Harvey, the former Agency director of :executive action, as its secretary Kathleen Chenow explained in All The President’s Men. (p. 216ff.)
She moved their office to Milwaukee when they were zeroing in on Arthur Bremer, who lived there, to stalk both Wallace and Tricky Dick,
She so panicked the White House about what she knew, and was willing to divulge to investigators that Fred Fielding tracked her down in Europe, and managed to keep her silent when they came back.
My source for people fleeing Iran is the various news reports I’ve followed in the Guardian, where reporters say that as well as Syrians and Afghanis, there are migrants from Iran.
My comment is without an agenda. It is a genuine query: who are these migrants coming to Europe from Iran?
My guess would be that Iran already had a huge refugee population and has had for many years. Perhaps these people find it as difficult to re-establish their lives as non-citizens in Iran as others have done in so-called safe countries like Turkey or Lebanon, where they do not have the right to work or to access housing. In Lebanon Syrians are living in cowsheds. On handouts.
habba, which American or Israeli scientists have been assassinated by Iranian terrorists? Have Iran been treating wounded Al Nusra fighters in their hospitals? Did Iran supply the terrorist opposition to Assad with training and supplies?
“Republicofscotland I put to you, if capital punishment is the law of the land, which do you prefer;
1- a clinical out of sight, surreptitious murder/death sentence carried out?
2- an open and public, in your face murder/death sentence carried out?
Won’t you agree that case 2 in fact serves the cause of “deterrence” better, and further it drives home to each and every one of the public witnessing the gruesome consequences of the capital punishment, the need/or lack thereof the said punishment?”
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And there you have Fedup in all his/her/its splendour – faintly approving of vicious state-sanctioned killings with the victim’s remains displayed in public for all to see, children included. Fedup has truly earned hisher club membership on this blog.
Meanwhile, some nice muslim refugees are experiencing some difficulties in Europe –
Muslim ‘refugees’ attack Christians in German camp –
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11896855/Christian-and-Muslim-refugees-should-be-housed-separately-says-German-police-chief.html
And .. here, the Catholic report of the same story wisely doesn’t mention who attacks whom –
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/09/29/christian-and-muslim-refugees-should-be-separated-says-german-police-chief/
Can’t wait for Fedup’s frothing-mouthed, rabid reply ..
“Craig, I can’t imagine why you are surprised that the Iranian President should have spoken humane common sense. When has Iran ever hurt anyone, or committed aggression against other nations?” Agreed, Tom. I am surprised that people should express surprise that an Iranian is capable of speaking humane common sense, unlike our two-faced and devious leaders. Is being a Muslim a disqualification?
Glenn makes a bold (ignorant) claim : “Indeed, and as you say, they often live alongside each other perfectly well. They did so in Iraq, and intermarried, prior to our invasion and occupation.”
Under Sadam Hussein, everyone lived in “perfect” harmony. Now why do you think that was, professor?
“I am surprised that people should express surprise that an Iranian is capable of speaking humane common sense, unlike our two-faced and devious leaders. Is being a Muslim a disqualification?”
It doesn’t help when your belief system advocates violent contempt for non-believers.
Many of the Afghan refugees will come through Iran into Turkey, MBC, and beware for taking Grauniad reports as the vitrified gospel, it is very biased towards the outlook of its owners these days, people who tried everything to undermine Iran, and failed.
@twoleftfeet, you have to forgive Habby he’s slightly getting things the other ways round these days, most likely he’s run out of blue pills. He’s trying to make out that it was not the Israeli’s who bugged the peace conference rooms, nor can he fathom that they organised drive by shooting of scientists in Iran for some time, apart from the cyber terror attacks and bombs to interfere with Iran’s nuclear project, anything to please the Dimona daemons in Tel Aviv.
Jemand: “Under Sadam Hussein, everyone lived in “perfect” harmony. Now why do you think that was, professor?”
Catch up, student. Do you think Saddam Hussein actually forced people with different faiths to marry each other?
Link to Corbyn’s speech of this afternoon. Recommend watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFo5a3PFn1M
In retrospect it looks like Miliband wasted away some years.
Nevermind
“@twoleftfeet, you have to forgive Habby he’s slightly getting things the other ways round these days, most likely he’s run out of blue pills”
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Only slightly, Ingo – actually I think I’ve done a rather good job over the last few threads, correcting factual inaccuracies and challenging certain contributors on their most egregious comments….and even having a couple of quite fruitful exchanges with the one or two commenters who were prepared to defend their views rather than just ducking out of sight 🙂
Link to Corbyn’s speech of this afternoon. Recommend watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFo5a3PFn1M
In retrospect it looks like Miliband wasted away some years.
Republicofscotland
Thank you for the clarification (15h49).
Stop the beheading and crucifixion
Sign the petition
To President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron, Chancellor Merkel, U.N. officials and all world leaders:
Saudi Arabia is about to execute 21-year-old Ali Mohammed al-Nimr and expose his body in public. Human rights experts claim his confession was obtained under torture, he was a child at the time of the offence, and his execution is unlawful. We call on you to urge the Kingdom to stop his execution, and then challenge the appointment of Saudi Arabia to the U.N. Human Rights Council panel. Our world must ensure human rights oversight is in the hands of governments with strong track records.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stop_saudi_beheadings_loc/?bgMZcab&v=65557
Shaker Aamer received mention in Corbyn’s speech.
Habby, have you noted any responses to the questions I posed on basic data on why he went to Afghanistan in the first place and, what was he doing there, and then why did he send off his family, including pregnant wife and very young children back to the UK, via Pakistan (?), and chose to stay back in Afghanistan?
Thanks Mary for that link to the petition, nearly a million signatures already.
@Micah and @Alcyone – the rhetorical device that bullies someone into debate by suggesting they would otherwise have to concede is a fallacy. I’ve seen it employed online a few times, aside from your usages today, and I am quite chuffed to see that commenters here are not as willing to be drawn by that as used to be the case.
My advice, if it is worth anything – both to the left and the right here – is that debate should broadly be stimulating and/or enjoyable. If it becomes tribal, hostile or inflexible, then it doesn’t really achieve anything.
Anyone been attending or hosting any dinner parties of late?
“She moved their office to Milwaukee when they were zeroing in on Arthur Bremer, who lived there, to stalk both Wallace and Tricky Dick,”
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Trowbridge H Ford, I once read a few chapters from a friends book about Bremer’s diaries, in which he admitted his total failure as human being at not being able to assassinate Nixon.
He did however manage to shoot Wallace, but he didn’t kill him, he wrote in his diaries, that no one in Russia would know who Wallace was, but if he’d killed Nixon his infamy would’ve been secured in the annuls of history.
Bremer may have had a North South, divide grudge against Nixon, and later Wallace, his apartment was draped in Confederate flags, a flag now abhorred by many in America after the recent shooting of a Rev Clementa Pinckney, a black senator.
The CIA had it in for Nixon, and eventually used Watergate to bring him down.
Jon my dinner party post wasn’t a comment on your post re debate on here. I agree with your comment about not taking sides. Taking sides is stagnant. Exploring ideas with people who have different preconceptions can be very productive and the board then becomes a healthy ground full of fertiliser.
Looks like U.S. intelligence suicided a young Greek telephone technician some 10 years ago. https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/death-athens-rogue-nsa-operation/