The House of Lords broke no constitutional conventions in referring back Osborne’s vindictive tax credit cuts. The Tories and their media supporters are talking utter garbage on the question. Taking Britain’s appalling “constitution” for what it is, the arcane rules of procedure were not breached.
Ever since David Lloyd George and Herbert Asquith forced, by threat of massive creation of peerages, the 1911 Budget through and with it the start of National Insurance and the demise of the workhouse, there has been a convention that the Lords do not oppose or amend Finance Bills.
But the tax credit cuts were not in a Finance Bill. Osborne instead tried to sneak them through by statutory instrument. This is secondary legislation whereby a Minister signs off laws under powers delegated to him by primary legislation. Secondary legislation gets much less parliamentary time and committee scrutiny. If Osborne had put the tax credit proposals in a Finance Bill, as they certainly should have been – it is Osborne who was breaking parliamentary convention here – rather than sneak them under the table as secondary legislation, the Lords would indeed not have been able to stop them without breaching constitutional convention. Which just goes to show it doesn’t always pay to be a weasel.
Osborne is hoist by his own petard.
Aah, Tories say. But there is another convention that the Lords do not block secondary legislation.
They are making that one up. There is no such constitutional convention and there are plenty of examples of the Lords blocking secondary legislation. There is a huge quantity of secondary legislation, thousands and thousands of laws – ministers continually are signing off legal changes.
But the entire basis of the secondary legislation is that parliament has delegated to ministers, in Acts, powers to sign off uncontroversial matter. This can be, for example, the detail of regulations needed technically to enforce primary legislation, and the occasional updates needed. Only a very low percentage indeed of secondary legislation ever gets queried by the Lords, but that is not because of a constitutional convention. That is because most of it is dull stuff. But when the government abuses its authority and tries to smuggle vital changes through secondary legislation, the Lords not only has the constitutional right to challenge this abuse, it has the constitutional duty to do so.
I wish they would do it more often. For example, when the Labour Party used Westminster secondary legislation to cede 6,000 square miles of Scotland’s sea to England without parliamentary scrutiny.
Finally, there is a constitutional convention that the Lords do not oppose manifesto commitments on which a government has been elected. But the Tories rather carefully did not put tax credit cuts in their manifesto, and indeed in campaigning said they would not do it.
The British constitution is appallingly undemocratic. The fact that an undemocratic chamber has fended off a proposal from an undemocratic executive which gained the votes of only 37% of the voting electors, is not a blow struck for democracy. It is however a temporary victory for human decency in mitigating an attack on the poor.
It is also an achievement for Jeremy Corbyn. Nobody can truly believe that Labour peers would have been organised to do this under Yvette Cooper or Liz Kendall.
UPDATE Wings Over Scotland has a very different take on the Labour Party performance. That the Labour Party was not radical enough to go for the “fatal” option I am afraid I find unsurprising. It remains a deeply conservative institution. But I had not previously encountered the argument that 90% would lose the money from universal credit anyway, and it is stunningly cynical. But on close consideration, I cannot work out what it means. Either there must be some additional cut to universal credit, or that those who lost tax credit could have regained it on universal credit anyway. If anybody could explain that one further, I should be grateful.
Kempe
As usual, a sensible post and I agree with your ideas about how the airline companies could save lots of money (even if the experts on here were to charge for furnishing their wisdom.
As I see it, the two main conspiracy strands on here are as follows:
1/. CIA/Mossad destroyed the plane (that’s the ineffable Mr Golding*)
2/. ISIL shot it down. The US and Western powers are therefore to blame since ISIL acts as a proxy for those same powers and, indeed, was set up by them.
Send for the men in the flapping white coats!
_______________________
* that’s the same Mr Golding who has declined to tell us whether he sends a letter of sympathy every time an airliner crashes or just when it’s a Russian one/with Russian passengers.
the video is not a fake, those who deny the horrid Nazi tactics shown in it are the real fakes, the forgers of historic facts and human rights abuses.
RoS On 27 October on page 1 here, I posted:
27 Oct, 2015 – 6:06 pm
Man, 84, awaiting deportation died in handcuffs ‘due to Home Office rules’
Paramedic treating Alois Dvorzac for chest pains tells inquest of colleagues’ shock that ‘frail’ patient was taken to hospital in handcuffs and chains
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/27/man-84-awaiting-deportation-died-in-handcuffs-home-office-inquest
What sort of country are we living in?
~~~
Nobody answered.
Today Theresa May sat telling Marr that there was ‘more to do’ on immigration. Yes indeed. She should tell the contractors GEO who operate at Harmondsworth on behalf of the Border Agency NEVER to treat an old man in the way Mr Dvorzac was treated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34692599
An action group against what is going on in the rotten place.
http://detentionaction.org.uk/aboutus/about-harmondsworth-detention-centre
and GEO’s COO in the UK is Ms Henney
http://www.geogroup.co.uk/who-we-are/our-people
Ms Henney works for GEO UK which is a subsidiary of GEO GROUP Inc based in Florida and chaired by George Zoley and his fellows.
http://www.geogroup.com/board_of_directors
‘To date, GEO’s operations include the management and/or ownership of 105 correctional, detention and community re-entry facilities encompassing approximately 87,000 beds, including idle beds in inventory and projects under development. Our team, of over 20,500 professionals, is dedicated to the safety and care of the individuals assigned to our custody on behalf of federal, state, and local government agencies.’
In the US, Australia, South Africa and the UK.
PS GEO also operate Dungavel in S Lanarkshire. It’s pretty grim there too.
Asylum seekers detained at Dungavel for more than a year
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31710402
Gotcha time – the faked video posted by Monteverdi (http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/watch-israeli-soldiers-threaten-bethlehem-refugee-camp-over-loudspeaker-1147215543.0
____________________
Now it is, of course, not surprising that Palestinians should produce fake videos designed to put Israel and the IDF in a bad light. There’s a propaganda war going one and the Palestinians have every right to use whatever means they can to try to win it. And it would be very patronising of any one on here to think that they are not technically competent enough to produce such fakes.
It is not even surprising that “middleeasteye” should see fit to proagate a fake video. They are, as one says in France, “parti pris”(*).
What is a little surprising, though, is that the Israel-haters on this blog should not do their own checking and evaluation lest someone like Habbabkuk takes a close look and shows up the video for the fake it is and its distributers on here for the charlatans they are.
_______________________
* Lysias to check the spelling, please. Merci beaucoup!
Oh Mary sorry I must have missed your article, I’m disappointed though that no one took you up on it.
The mans fate blackens Britain’s name.
got guests, good night.
Nevermind
“the video is not a fake, those who deny the horrid Nazi tactics shown in it are the real fakes, the forgers of historic facts and human rights abuses.”
_________________
Well, at least you had the guts – or the temerity – to come out and defend the video as genuine.
I look forward to Fedup and Pulcinella aka Monterverdi doing the same.
May I point out, however, my dear Nebelmind, that pointing that the video is a fake is not equivalent to denying historic facts and human rights abuses?
Pointing out that the video ((http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/watch-israeli-soldiers-threaten-bethlehem-refugee-camp-over-loudspeaker-1147215543.0) has been faked is equivalent to pointint out that iut has been faked – no more and no less.
You must learn to be a little less absolutist, Ingo.
No-one has to ‘cross’ from anywhere to anywhere if a SAM was used, these things have quite a range, two, three or more hndred miles. If terrorists, Saudi/Israeli involvement is a given, Turkish and Egyptian help likely. People are contradicting each other as to whether the debris area was very large or was concentrated. Last communication from the pilot I believe, the initial reports said, was a request for emergency landing at Cairo. Plenty of people hate, want to make trouble for and are jealous of Russia.
Anyhow let not this or other events distract from the despotic creeps running the UK, who incidentally provide cover for Israeli state crimes. Let not the cooking-fires go out under the Tory, Labour (and Liberal) parties, lest the meat be half-done. (Old Proverb).
Staring into the abyss of apathy it is better to defer…
The over sized bag of shit slimming this thread has not the time to even catch a glimpse of Al Jazeera that has aired the the same package!
This is the kind of lying sack of shit that is given inordinate latitude to spam this board as the same cretins have come to spam the rest of the net!
Everybody is out of step except these zionist supremacist creeps. Of course in the “liberal” traditions these turds have a “right” to have their say and boy these rights are so taken for granted, just what has this fartbag contributed other than racist drivel and utter nonsensical shite?
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/politics-and-military/military/idf-soldier-to-palestinians-we-will-fire-tear-gas-at-you-until-you-die-16820
Re-Lo Zuccone 7.08pm .
I quote the Israeli Border Police statement from above Israeli website over video :
” The Border Police issued a statement in response . ” This is a very serious incident which is being dealt with by the highest ranking officers . The Officer has been suspended from any operational activity until the end of the procedures . We will examine his future in the Force ”
……………………………………………………………………..
Strange reaction to a ‘ forgery ‘ don’t you think ?
Any further comments Lo Zuccone you’d like to post re the video ? An apology perhaps ?
I await your response with interest .
http://www.timesofisrael.com/border-cop-suspended-for-threatening-to-gas-palestinians/
Oh dear , Lo Zuccone 7.08pm ( aka Habbabkuk ).
What a mess you’re getting into with your denialist posts .
Please read the full report in the ‘ Times of Israel ‘ above and apologise to all those you’ve maligned on this thread .
You wouldn’t want to make a fool of yourself by keep on digging yourself into a bigger hole ……….. would you ?
RoS I hope you don’t think that I was getting at you. I just thought it strange that nobody seemed to care about that poor man.
This morning May went on to reassure us via Marr, the devotee of Blair*, that under her new bill, the authorities won’t be able to tell which page of a website we visit just the website itself. She must think we were born yesterday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34691956
*
A JOURNEY UNCHALLENGED – ANDREW MARR INTERVIEWS TONY BLAIR
17 September 2010
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2010/15-a-journey-unchallenged-andrew-marr-interviews-tony-blair.html
Well found Monteverdi. You have got him.
Next time could you please ask him what he thinks of Palestinians being treated like prisoners in a concentration camp. Hebron is their home.
Palestinian Residents of Hebron Required to Register in Preparation for Severe New Restrictions – http://www.imemc.org/article/73657
‘It is being reported that the area will be closed off completely for people who are not residents of the area and who are not registered within the next few days.
“For the people living in the area, it will become like a prison. For people living in Hebron, the closure of Tel Rumeida will mean that the city will be split in two”, says local resident to international activists.
The names and ID-numbers of the people living in the area are being written down by soldiers on long lists, and there are dozens of Palestinians standing around Gilbert checkpoint waiting to hand over their information or be forced out. Even for the residents who will be allowed in the area, this will mean severe restriction of their movement. Every time Palestinian residents of Tel Rumeida & the area around Ibrahimi mosque (between checkpoints 209 and 29) cross a check point to get to their home, the soldiers will have to search the long list for the name.
It is not the first time the Israel has imposed such restrictions on the residents of the area. In 1994 after the Illegal settler extremist Baruch Goldstein committed a massacre in the Ibrahimi Mosque, similar measures were taken. At that time, Palestinian residents refused registration and were punished with a six month 24-hour-curfew and only allowed a few hours a week during which the residents could buy food.
Due to the increase in violence by army and settlers against Palestinians they do not dare to refuse registration this time.’
I suspect Mark Golding’s thoughts are correlated to his military experience and associations. I highly value the opinions of those who have been there, seen that. When my eldest expressed a wish to join the Marines at age 9 I wondered where I had gone wrong until I realized neither of us had done any wrong, we just hadn’t seen what was right, as yet. His experiences in Boot Camp were hardcase, and the first night he wondered if he had made a mistake, barely recognizing paternal prophecies. Over the next 13 weeks we had little communication, by design. It was good in many ways, this Bootcamp style of self-regeneration which seems to escalate one’s sense of what can be done light-years beyond how you formerly saw your own capabilities.
As he was leaving for Boot Camp MSRD (soCal) the best imprinting I could muster as I looked into his eyes
and simply saying “Just don’t let them take your humanity” and I think from subsequent years that bit of advice stuck. Never underestimate the power of the spoken work.
spoken word….holy christ
Pulcinella (aka Monteverdi)
“Any further comments Lo Zuccone you’d like to post re the video ? An apology perhaps ?
I await your response with interest .”
__________________
Happy to respond, Pulcinella.
The Times of Israel says that the IBP are carrying out an investigation into this alleged incident and that the alleged perpetrator is currently suspended while that investigation runs its course.
That is the procedure one would expect from any civilised country which operates under the rule of law and public accountability for its servants.
If that investigation should conclude that the alleged incident happened as described in “middleeasteye” (and relayed by the two Israeli media you linked to) – and that, therefore, the video in question is not a fake as far as the speaker is concerned – I should be happy to withdraw what I wrote.
Please keep readers informed as the investigation develope/concludes.
Thank you.
Mary
Thanks for the info Re ” Brian Often other toxic substances are included in what is referred to as ‘tear gas’ used by the IDF. It is terrible. I think of the 54 year old doctor who was asphyxiated in Hebron recently.”
Other toxins like Cn… it’s a vast web they weave –
Headquartered in Jamestown, Pennsylvania, Combined Systems Inc. (CSI)—often manufacturing under the brand name Combined Tactical Systems (CTS)—supplies Tunisia, Yemen, Germany, Netherlands, India, East Timor, Hong Kong, Argentina, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Cameroon, and Sierra Leone, as well as its most high-profile clients as of late— Egypt and Israel. They are owned by Point Lookout Capital and the Carlyle Group, with the former, whose offices are located in New York City, holding the controlling shares. On Point Lookout’s portfolio page, the section on CSI reads: “The company’s CTS branded product line is the premiere less-lethal line in the industry today.”
CSI is the primary supplier of tear gas to the Israeli military as well as a provider to Israel’s police (and border police) for use in occupied Palestine.
(CSI even used to fly the Israeli flag at its Jamestown headquarters, but in advance of the Martin Luther King Day protest there, the company replaced it with a Pennsylvania state flag.)
There is extensive written documentation of CSI sales and shipments to Israel; moreover CTS-brand canisters are ubiquitous at Palestinian protests, including the regularly recurrent nonviolent demonstrations at Bil’in, Ni’lin and Nabi Saleh.
http://occupiedmedia.us/2012/02/tracking-tear-gas/
There’s this pervasive notion tit-alating the senses with promise as though paradise is a permanent reward.
Talk not. The Troll lurks.
Ben
If he takes after the Old Man..not many worries on Humanity… Well said. You deffo have some Native American in there… And Celts too. 🙂
Nuthin against Our friends in the rest this Pale Blue Dot..But Evil Exists..Plenty against that.
Cheers, Brian.
Lo Zuccone 10.28pm [ aka Habbabkuk ]
Always enjoy seeing a hasbarist back-pedaling fast .Evasion and obfuscation a traditional response and reaction when being exposed publically .
But lets look at the Israeli Border Police’s statement as quoted in the ‘ Times of Israel ‘
I quote :
‘ Border Police officials called the policeman’s actions ” a grave incident ” and vowed that the case would be handled ” to the fullest extent of the law ” They told Channel 2 News the Officer had been suspended from all operations until the end of the inquiry and that his continued service in the force would be reviewed ‘ .
……………………………………………………………………………..
1] No kneejerk reaction claiming it a ‘ forgery ‘ unlike untalented hasbarists like yourself .
2] A statement that all but implies the video was valid , with no claims of ‘ forgery ‘ .
Whilst I enjoy skewering piss-poor hasbarists such as yourself I’ve learnt over five decades dealing with them that the following quote applies in all discussions with them :
” Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience ”
[ Greg King ]
I Reckon it is an Acquired Skill..and I sure ain’t got there yet…to shoot like a dart and straight through all the bullshit and virtually no one notices…and you get the bull..and no one is offended (much)
Tony
For the Souls of the earth
Anyone heard of the Hard Rain Project –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT2b-D50wic
Radiation fades your gene`s.
Fukushima – a Hushed Up Catastrophe
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/30/fukushima-a-hushed-up-catastrophe/
Someone talking sense.
Everything You Needed to Know About Syria in 8 Minutes
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/30/everything-you-needed-to-know-about-syria-in-8-minutes/
Nevermind.. Re Wushu…. I am an Expert in Bo Staff… But this Good… Effin Weans ..Lol [
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foaUrqvOTpw
But you NEVER Let go of yir weapon..