My Metropolitan Police Evidence on Torture and Extraordinary Rendition 1137

This is a transcript of the evidence I gave, at their request, to the Metropolitan Police. I published scans of the witness statements yesterday, and a commenter has kindly transcribed them to make them web searchable. I was interviewed by the Police both at my home and at their headquarters, and it was made very plain to me that not only Sir Mark Allen, but Tony Blair, Jack Straw and numerous officials in the FCO and the Security Services were in the frame. I confess I therefore always expected the Establishment would have the case dropped despite overwhelming evidence.

I first offered this evidence to the Gibson Inquiry, I was treated by that Inquiry as an important witness and Judge Gibson ordered the FCO to give me full access to all documents I saw while Ambassador, to refresh my memory. No. 10 panicked at this and other evidence that Gibson was doing a genuine job, and the Gibson Inquiry was closed down by Cameron with the active complicity of Nick Clegg. I was then told by the Gibson secretariat that the Metropolitan Police were taking over aspects of that inquiry. I was then contacted and interviewed by the Metropolitan Police and gave this evidence.

The Director of Public Prosecutions having corruptly closed down the criminal case, the matter is now purportedly under investigation by the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament – consisting entirely of “trusties” of the security services. They have continually and repeatedly refused requests by me to give evidence. I last heard from them on 15 December 2015, a simple acknowledgement of a receipt of a communication.

As nobody can claim my evidence is untrue due to the amount of documentary report, the Establishment simply ensures it does not get heard by any inquiry or court. When the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee had hearings into extraordinary rendition, they directly asked seven different witnesses – including Jack Straw – whether I was telling the truth, but they refused to call me as a witness or to accept written evidence from me.

CI Act 1967. 3.9: MC Act I980. ss.5A(3)(a) and SB; Criminal Procedure Rules 2005. Rule 27.1
Age if under 18 Over 18 (if over I3 insert ‘over 18’) Occupation: Development Consultant

This statement (consisting of pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything in it which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true.

I joined the Foreign Office in 1984 direct from University in the ‘fast stream‘ process. I held a number of posts including second secretary in Lagos, then Head of the Maritime section in London and the Cyprus section. Around 1992-l993 I was also head of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) embargo surveillance section both before and after the first Gulf War. Its role was to monitor Iraqi attempts of weapons procurement. I then served in Poland as first secretary in the Embassy and returned to London as deputy Head of the Africa Department, and thereafter in Ghana as Deputy High Commissioner. I was security cleared to Developed Vetted level and because of my earlier work in relation to Iraqi arms embargo l was given extra security clearances enabling me to view other sensitive intelligence material up to including various extra codewords over and above Top Secret. I have never worked for either the Security Service (SYS) or Secret Intelligence Service (SIS). I speak both Polish and Russian.

In August 2002 I took up the role as Ambassador, at the Embassy in Uzbekistan. I was given very little formal pre posting briefing by the FCO and met the outgoing ambassador Chris INGRAM only for about half an hour during which we only discussed a staff issue regarding an embassy member called Chris HIRST. Ihe staff at the Uzbekistan Embassy included a Defence Attache, an assistant, a Deputy Head of Mission, a third secretary, a management officer, consular ofiicer and assistant. My number two was an acting second secretary called Karen MORAN. I didn’t have many staff or much ability to discuss matters with them.

After my arrival in Uzbekistan as part of my role I viewed certain intelligence material originating from Uzbekistan. This material came to me from SIS in London and was sent to them by the CIA via the CIA Headquarters in Washington. It was sent to me if SIS thought it appropriate information I should be aware of. The only person security cleared to see such telegrams were I and Karen MORAN in her role as Deputy Head of Mission (DHM).

I was aware even before I arrived in Uzbekistan that the Uzbekistan security services had a terrible reputation for torture that included for example using boiling water on individuals as well as electrocution. I never whilst in Uzbekistan ever had direct involvement with the Uzbekistan security services, SIS officers came out on liaison visits but I don’t recall who they were or who they met.

Page 2 of 5

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

In my new role I was proactive in meeting local Uzbekistan people and I had only been there a couple of weeks when I attended a trial of dissidents accused of terrorism. More than one witness tried to change their original account claiming it was made under torture. I found them credible that they were tortured to give a false account. The United Nations special rapporteur on torture came out to Uzbekistan to do a special report and we arranged for torture victims to see him.

The intelligence that was sent to me by SIS at this time concerned me on two grounds; firstly it showed how systematic the torture was by the Uzbekistan security services as the intelligence was coming from tortured detainees. And secondly the quality of the intelligence was inaccurate. I knew these from my first hand experience in Uzbekistan and I knew individual facts could be shown to be false.

I came to these conclusions after about three to four months of being in Uzbekistan. This was due to the fact I had been doing some work around tortured Uzbekistan detainees and I could see links with the intelligence I was seeing. Most of the intelligence didn’t name the detainees but it had similar trends such as Al Qaeda (AQ) membership or attending AQ training camps which wasn’t true. I was aware that my defence attache Colonel RIDOUT had been to one training camp location that was cited in the intelligence reports and found they did not exist. I knew that Uzbekistan was getting money and arms from the United States and I believed the Uzbekistan government were exaggerating the AQ threat in response. I believe this was a view shared by colleagues in the Embassy.

My concerns revolved around the intelligence and the cooperation between the Uzbekistan security services and CIA. I was uneasy about what the US were not doing to stop the torture. I decided something was going wrong and London (the FCO) must have not known about the torture. I asked Karen MORAN who had regular meetings with the US mission in Uzbekistan to ask the US about the intelligence flow from torture and to confirm from the US mission that it in fact was not from torture. Karen told me that the US response she received was that the intelligence was from torture however it was justified in the ‘war on terror‘. This response was possibly from the US Mission political counsellor.

On about 17th December 2002 I wrote a telegram back to London setting out my concerns. I have obtained a redacted version of that telegram under a Freedom of lnformation request I made I produce a copy of which as CJM/l telegram number I47 of I7/I2/2002 at 0345. It was addressed to the permanent under secretary (PUS) Sir Michael JAY as he was the head of the Diplomatic Service and Michel WOOD the Foreign Office legal advisor as it dealt with legal issues. I also sent it to relevant UK Missions (UKMIS) who had interest/deal in torture policy, these included New York, Geneva, Vienna and ‘Organisation Security and Cooperation in Europe‘ (OSCE) of which Uzbekistan is a member. lf you send a telegram on policy it is practice that it is also sent to other UK Missions who have an interest as with this telegram.

I don‘t know how I received a response but I got a message back stating that I could discuss the matters with William ERHMAN during an Ambassadors conference that l was due to attend in London in January 2003. I believe this message originated from Sir Michael JAY and I believe it is back referenced as telegram 323 of 2002 which appears on the next telegram I sent.

In January 2003 I returned as planned to London for a few days and could not get hold of William ERHMAN so the conversation I intended never took place with him. I subsequently returned to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and it was around this time I was aware public concern had just started regarding detainee issues in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. I seemed to be the only person within the FCO who was worried about it. I had never done this before by that I mean flagged up these kinds of issues/concerns.

Page 3 of 5

Continuation of Statemait of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

On 22nd January 2003 I sent another telegram this was addressed to William ERHMAN again I produce a redacted copy that was supplied to me under a Freedom Of Information request I made as exhibit CJM/2 on it there is the back reference 323 which I believe was the response originating from Michael JAY that I previously referred to. ‘The telegram essentially states the same as my first. I did not receive a response to any of the points: this is unheard of because if an Ambassador writes a telegram in relation to a policy matter there is always response. I was frustrated and could not understand why there was no written reply on this policy on torture.

Shortly after this I was asked back to London to discuss the issues I had raised. I can’t recall what method this summons was communicated to me. I believed I was coming back to London to see Sir Michael JAY however I never did see him.

I thought I was in trouble due to the nature of the recall to London and I suspected I was going to be sacked. I returned to London on 6th March 2003 I don‘t recall what dictated the timing but it was two weeks before the war started in Iraq. At that time, with the ‘dodgy dossier‘ going around supporting the war and my concerns regarding the inaccurate intelligence I had seen, the atmosphere was not good at the FC0. It was not the best time to be saying openly that our intelligence was not reliable. A retired ambassador had stated that we should not go to war as the intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) was not reliable. From evidence subsequently given in the Chilcott enquiry I believe Sir Michael WOOD had advised Jack STRAW at the time, it was not legal to go to war in Iraq. So all this was going on around my return to London.

I was called into a meeting on the 7″‘ or 8″‘ March 2003 with Linda DUIFFIELD who was the Director Wider Europe (DWE) and my counter signing manager. This meeting took place in her office and she told me Sir Michael JAY wanted to see me but was too busy. With her at the meeting were Michael WOOD and Matthew KIDD who I believe was from MI6 (SIS), he was introduced as being Permanent Under Secretary Department (PUSD) which is a liaison department that deals with SIS. It was a two part meeting with either a private discussion between Linda and myself and then a gmcral discussion with everyone present or the other way around I can’t recall now. She told me that ‘JAY was not pleased I had put things in writing, things like that should not be in writing.‘ In the general meeting with all three she stated Jack Straw had seen my telegrams (CIM/l and CIM/2) and they ‘troubled him and he lost sleep at night over this‘. Also that he had met ‘C’ Sir Richard DEARLOVE and discussed whether, in relation to the ‘war on terror‘ should intelligence from torture be used. Also that Jack Straw made the decision that I should not send over ‘emotional and melodramatic’ telegrams like these and that intelligence and torture were ministerial decisions.

In the general meeting Sir Michael WOOD stated he had looked at the United Nations convention on torture and that it was his legal position that if we didn’t ask someone to be tortured but got intelligence from torture then we were doing nothing illegal.

I asked him about complicity in torture and Article 3 and 4 of the UN Convention on torture. Sir Michael WOOD stated that he didn’t know but Article l6 allowed us to get intelligence from torture but it could not be used in court. Mr KIDD went on to add that intelligence coming from Tashkent was useful to SIS. I told him the intelligence wasn’t true. He disageed with this.

A formal response to my telegrams was read out to me by Linda with everyone present and she told me the response would not be sent as these things were best not put in writing.

Page 4 of S

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

I produce a copy of the minutes of this meeting again supplied to me under a Freedom of lnformation request I made which 1 exhibit as CIMI3. I do not accept the minutes as a full and accurate account of the meeting. it was not sent to me in draft afierwards for ‘signing off‘ which was practice. It also mentions l was given a revised telegram which I was not. I was shown it but not to keep and it was never sent to me.

Afler this meeting I went back to Tashkent. Later in 2005 I obtained a message dated l4/3/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of lnfonnation request I made which I exhibit as CJM/4. This indicates Jack Straw saw the minutes of the meeting referred to in exhibit CIM/3. There were hundreds of meetings at the FCO each day and it would be very rare for minutes to be seen by Jack STRAW unless he had previous documents regarding the matter i.e. my original telegrams and an explanatory briefing from Sir Michael Jay or another oflicial. Simon McDONALD was Jack Straw’s number 2 private secretary and Alan CHARLTON was Head of Personnel.

Whilst in Tashkent l was concerned my career was ruined. I had upset my line managers and I decided I wasn‘t going to say anything else as I was extremely concerned about my future.

I was then told that my third secretary Chris HIRST had attacked a blind person in the street with a baseball bat. I had been told by my predecessor that he had been accused of doing something similar before, but that my predecessor had supported him, this was the staff issue I referred to earlier in this statement. I personally had witnessed his verbally violent outbursts in a local bar before. I knew that as a result of this baseball bat incident that he had to go, which he did. After this I then found papers regarding Chris HIRST that had been hidden from me by his partner Karen MORAN and I learnt she had destroyed other similar documents. As a result of this Karen had to go as well.

At this time I was not receiving any replies from London and asked them why they were ignoring me but got no response.

In June 2003 Colin REYNOLDS from the Foreign Office arrived in Uzbekistan ostensibly to find out what was happening at the Embassy with the sudden departure of Karen and Chris. He had been sent out by Alan CHARLTON. All the Embassy staff was seen by Colin and the staff told me that in fact he was asking them not about Chris & Karen as they expected but things about me such as my drinking habits and whether I used prostitutes. The staff were confused and surprised. I let Colin finish the interviews of staff and then l asked him what was going on as it seemed to me that he was investigating me. He told me not to worry and that he had been instructed to investigate allegations raised about me. He would not tell me what those allegations were. He later as I understand reported back to London that the staff supported me and there were no issues. I obtained a copy of his findings dated 26/6/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of information request I made which I exhibit as CJM/5. This confirms he reported that all the staff supported me. The report has been ec‘d to amongst others Harvey BOWYER of the FCU. This is the internal audit section called the Financial Compliance Unit (FCU) l did‘t know where this fitted into the investigation by Colin REYNOLDS. However a few months later a team fiom the FCU internal audit came to the embassy to go through all our accounts. All they found at the end of their audit was that I owed about $20 for a lunch for which I lost the receipt, this I repaid. It appeared to me that they were plainly out to get me and I thought I had survived: the only criticism of me was the handling of the HIRST matter.

In July after Colin REYNOLDS left I then went on holiday. London then sent out Dominic SCHROEDER from the FCO political Eastern Department who came and interviewed the same staff as Colin Reynolds again after which he came up with some 18 discipline offences against me.

Page 5 of 5

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

In August I was called back from holiday in Canada to London to see Howard DRAKE the personnel department director. Present at this meeting were Tessa REDMAYNE of the personnel department and Kate SMITH who was my union representative. At this meeting Howard DRAKE asked me to resign and I declined this is detailed in a report he completed dated 27/8/2003 that was sent to me for ‘clearance’. I produce a copy as exhibit CJM/6. During this meeting l was told that if I forgot about Tashkent that I would be offered another ambassadorship, but I declined this. It was at this meeting that I first became aware of the allegations albeit Colin REYNOLDS had previously told me they were nonsense. The source of the allegations was never disclosed to me.

All the disciplinary allegations were false and around this time my security clearance was up for review. My security clearance reviewer contacted me to state my clearance had been passed by him but it had then been sent back to him and he had been put under pressure not to clear me. He said that he was sticking by his recommendation and my clearance was renewed.

l was suspended for four months and sent back to Tashkent and told not to speak to anyone about the outstanding allegations. l was banned from entering embassy buildings and the stress of it all caused my health to collapse. I suffered severe heart and lung problems as a result.

After four months of investigation l was cleared of all l8 allegations: there was a formal hearing in relation to two matters only. These related to being seen with a ‘hangover’ by a local member of staff in Tashkent and secondly misusing an embassy car, l was cleared on both counts and the evidence against me was shown to be rubbish or non-existent.

l was however found guilty of telling someone about the existence of the allegations when I returned to Tashkent for which I was given a final written warning in January 2004.

Later in June 2004 one of the initial telegrams l had written was somehow leaked to the Financial Times newspaper and the Times printed sections of it. This was not done by me and although I denied it I was suspended as a result and in February 2005 I resigned from the Civil Service. I was given six years early retirement severance pay.

I firmly believe that the allegations against me were knowingly false or grossly exaggerated,. and were concocted against me deliberately to silence me after l was the only senior civil servant to enter a written objection to the policy of collusion in torture. As a consequence my career was destroyed and my health permanently damaged.

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1,137 thoughts on “My Metropolitan Police Evidence on Torture and Extraordinary Rendition

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      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        After we learned what Neil Heywood et al., especially the Canadian Garratts, were up to – i.e. help Anglo-American intelligence overthrow the CCP regime – we just cannot accept that all so-called human rights worker are legitimate, not spies, particularly when The Guardian mindlessly claims so.

        While I don’t support cracking down on persons in China who want to improve political conditions, I don’t support either trolls working for CIA and MI6, especially those working for the extraordinary rendition program – the topic of this thread.

        • Jim

          Whatever lurid speculations and conspiracies whirl around Heywood, most of which I’d put in the realm of fantasy, the long and short of things is he ended up murdered.

          • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

            And so did the passengers killed on Asiana Flight 214 and MH370 which was MI6’s payback for what happened to Heywood and the Xilais, thanks to what those two Iranians with stolen passports were able to do with hand-held lasers fired out of one of the toilets through the fuselage.

      • Republicofscotland

        Our illustrious humanitarian Jim, posts links to the Guardian newspaper, a perplexing act, especially when you’ve recently posted that the Guardian newspaper is the “evil MSM”

        Jim would seem has selective amnesia, when it suits him. ?

          • Republicofscotland


            Now now Jim, mind your blood pressure, sarcasm yeah right.

            BT/training, in the Rhondda Valley this weekend ? How many kilo’s do they make you carry now in your bergen?

          • Republicofscotland


            Surely you mean crypto and not cryptic, which describes you to a tee.

          • Republicofscotland

            Now that you mention Einstein.

            “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”

            Albert Einstein.

            Ring any bells Jim ?

        • Jim

          And you seem to forget you posted a link to it yourself a week or so ago, in the deluded belief it bolstered your argument. Comedy gold! ?

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)


            I think that no neutral person reading your posts, my posts and RoS’s posts over the last few threads would have any difficulty in identifying the real troll.

            A troll of the “bored joker” genus.

          • Jim

            Yep, I think it’s pretty obvious. It’s mere boredom on my part too though Habbs. I do feel sorry for the more erudite & scholarly types who chip in some great stuff every now & then though, having to scroll through the bilious guff from certain ‘bots & my impatience with them.

          • Republicofscotland

            “over the last few threads would have any difficulty in identifying the real troll.”



            I’m sure plenty of posters in here and lurkers have identified you as such, some actually calling you out on the matter. I think you’ll find I’ve posted links and commented on them, with varying degrees of replies.

            You however, well… do you actually know what a link is ? More to the point when did you last post one ?

            I’d say there’s more chance of Jim delivering boxes of aid to Syria, than you posting a link followed by your thoughts on it.

            Cue the infamous “stopfake” link. ?

  • Clark

    So much for Equality in the Eyes of the Law; the powerful in our system are obviously above prosecution.

  • Legal Aid

    “This is a transcript of the evidence I gave, at their request, to the Metropolitan Police.”

    Don’t you know that all coppers are bastards who would nick their own grandmother for a promotion? You should never talk to one without a lawyer, or maybe a team of lawyers.


    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      An exceedingly idiotic statement, intended as a provocation and not one with which Craig would agree, I suspect.

      Under what handle do you normally post?

      • Loony

        Have you converted to the revolutionary cause?

        Justice Robert Jackson the chief US Prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials, US Solicitor General, US Attorney General and Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court was quite clear in his view that no-one should ever talk to the police except in the presence of a lawyer.

        Here is Professor James J Duane providing a very lengthy argument as to why it would be inappropriate to talk to the Police

        But it is good to see that your revolutionary fervor burns so fiercely that you are able to write these people off as idiotic, with their views being formed for the primary purpose of provocation.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          If you read my post again, Loony, I think you’ll find I was writing off “Legal Aid” as an idiot.

          You’ve already been written off in my book, as you’ve probabky realised by now.

          • Loony

            You can wriggle all you want. Your post can only be interpreted as ascribing idiocy to anyone who proffers the advice that it is only prudent to speak to the police in the presence of a lawyer.

            As this would constitute the entire legal profession then it follows that you consider the law (or at least that part of it) as being informed by idiocy.

            Most people that openly exhibit such dripping contempt for the law are revolutionary anarchists or those infused with nihilism.

      • Legal Aid

        Yea right!

        “Anything you say will be taken down, twisted around, and used in court to make you look like a major criminal.”

        • Legal Aid

          If that’s not true, Habbabkuk, why do you think they changed the law, forcing the cops to tape all interviews and to give you a copy?

          • Loony

            That argument will likely fall on deaf ears.

            Mr/Miss/Mrs Habbabkuk has already confirmed that he/she holds the law in total contempt – so he/she is unlikely to pay attention to a procedural process that governs an entire concept he/she believes to be informed by idiocy.

          • fedup (Snitchsmeller Pursuivant)

            Damn it, looks as though, you are new around here, and unaware that h…kuk is on record:
            It is time for the gloves to come off.
            As far as this blog is concerned, the relevant authorities both here and elsewhere have already been made aware that various people (Republic of Scotland, RobG but also others) deny the reality of the terrorist attacks and/or claim that they have been carried out by state authorities in the various countries concerned.
            Nothing will happen to those terrorism-deniers but it is known who they are.

            So to find it is promoting the interests of the police is only an extension of its’ snitching!

            Why does anyone bother to enter any sort of transaction with the known cretins assigned to mess up this board is a puzzle?

    • Republicofscotland

      Legal Aid.

      A rather inane comment regarding the police, yes there are police officers that are inferior and not up to the job , but the majority of police officers are a credit to their community.

      If you speak to the police in that fashion, it will be you who needs a lawyer.

      • Legal Aid

        The last time I came up against a cop I was taping it and I made sure he lost his job.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          Wow, I’m impressed – you “got him sacked”! You really are the man.

          May I call you” Mega Balls” from now on?

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            A sock-puppet exposed by his own careessness.


            @ Legal Aid (19h05)

            “As always”, eh?

            So you have been in this blog before .

            What was your handle when you were calling me stupid in the past?

      • Legal Aid

        I bet you think they never ever used wet towels as an “interrogation aid” either eh RoS

        • Republicofscotland

          Legal Aid.

          Does your above comment in your mind anyway, apply to all police officers? Is every police officer a bad apple ? Or just specific ones of whom you’ve had unfortunate encounters with ?

          • Legal Aid

            You travel 500 miles a day, for any period of time, and you will encounter HM’s Blackshirts, sooner or later

          • Republicofscotland

            Is that you Fred ?

            Assuming it isn’t, Legal Aid, obfuscating on the matter doesn’t do you any favours.

            Do you agree, or not agree for that matter, that all police officers are –

            (A) violent thugs, carrying out evil deeds at the behest of god knows who ?


            (B) There are some bad apple in the barrel, but not all police officers are violent mindless thugs ?

            A simple answer of (A) or (B) will suffice.

            Thanks in advance.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    On the previous thread I gave, at a reader’s request, the criteria I believe are applied by the DPP before deciding whether or not to proceed to a prosecution.

    Has the DPP given its reasons for not proceeding on this particular case and , if so, what are they?

    I ask because Craig’s lead-in post accuses the DPP of acting “corruptly”

    • Bright Eyes

      Get back! Get Back!
      Get back to where you once belonged.

      The opening words of a Beatles song seem apt.

    • Mark Golding

      Disregarding ‘documentary evidence’ and refusal to call witness testimony is not only diabolical and immoral, it is cruel and vicious considering the situation of Craig’s removal and the severe damage caused to Craig’s mental well-being and physical health.

      Such lack of empathy is latent and intrinsic cruelty which lays naked a sub rosa psyche that may require TLC.

      • Jim

        That’s true, but at least the subject can be scrutinised in an open and free press, causing the likes of Straw and Allen great embarrassment and showing up the establishment closing ranks. Forensic public scrutiny causes these people pain whatever you may think of their relative impunity. That’s a hell of a lot better than some places in this mean old world, to use Little Walter’s expression.

        • Macky

          @Dim Jim, Which is essentially stating that yes we live in a corrupt society where not all are equal before the Law, yes those at the top can get away with sometimes the most serious of crimes, but hey at least our tame/lame media can cause them some embarrassment. This is just a downright mockery of our purported “Free & Equal Democracy”, and of scant comfort to victims of these blatant injustices; capped-off by the whataboutery of the “it’s even worse in some other places” excusing mentality.

          Sorry such white-washing apologetics are not good enough, and only add to the sordid shamefulness of the situation.

          • Jim

            You’ve got the gall to blather about corruption after your public displays of homophobia and paedophilia smears against Peter Tatchell? You didn’t notice that Craig noted his exceptional status as a hero of the left for many years? You’re beneath contempt mate, now fu…go away.

          • Macky

            @Dim Jim, I agree with Craig about Tatchell as much as I do with him over the Ukraine, but least least Craig has the sense to see through the war-mongering on Syria that people like you indulge in.

            Keep on with the smears, it just keeps reminding people exactly what an odious troll you really are.

          • Jim

            And the barefaced gall to blather about other people warmongering, there’s no depth you won’t stoop to. Now fu…go away.

          • bevin

            The Canary describes Jim’s affected ailment as POUTRAGE (Publicly Offended Ultra-Twattery Replacing Any Genuine Emotion).
            It is the oldest trick in trolling to re-direct a discussion of the sins of one’s own government, or its allies, into a discussion of the sins of governments over which none of us has any influence whatever and our criticism of which so annoys, for example, Chinese patriots (who have had two centuries of interference from foreign hypocrites pretending to be trying to help) that pressure on the authorities is immediately redefined as Fifth Column work.
            Of course to authoritarians such as the JIm troll, this is all to the good: the worse that China (or Syria) treats dissidents the better the trolls are pleased, laughing through their crocodile tears, as they list the reasons why such countries should be, as Libya was, attacked and ruined.

          • Jim

            Says the other barefaced liar and evader of the truth. Next in will be the Magisterial Davis pronouncing from on high.

          • Jim

            Chinese patriots like the activists jailed in the crackdown, Bevin? Those patriots? Or the patriots from Tianenman square in 1989?

          • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)


            “It is the oldest trick in trolling to re-direct a discussion of the sins of one’s own government, or its allies, into a discussion of the sins of governments over which none of us has any influence whatever”

            Don’t the Eminences and their hangers-on spend most of their time “discussing” the sins of foreign governments over which they have no influence at all (with a considerable focus on the Israeli govt., of course)?

            Why, even our Transatlantic Friend – allegedly an American – spends much of his time “discussing” matters British.

            So that makes the Eminences and their hangers-on trolls by your definition, doesn’t it.

          • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)

            I don’t think Jim was apologising for anything, “Macks” – he was just pointing out that matters like this would not even make it into the public domain in the sort of countries you feel such affection for.

            Jeez, you really have comprehension problems, don’t you! 🙂

          • Jim

            It’s their sublime stupidity mixed with arrogance that does my head in Habbs, thank God for running to provide a release.

          • Macky

            Habba-Clown; “Don’t the Eminences and their hangers-on spend most of their time “discussing” the sins of foreign governments over which they have no influence at all (with a considerable focus on the Israeli govt., of course)?”

            LOL ! Israel couldn’t get away committing its crimes, and wouldn’t even last a week, without the financial, military & diplomatic support it gets from Western Governments’

            HC; “Why, even our Transatlantic Friend – allegedly an American – spends much of his time “discussing” matters British.”

            Same thing in the sense that the UK effectively is the “51st state of usa”, just an unsinkable aircraft carrier & expendable nuclear target decoy .

            H_C; “So that makes the Eminences and their hangers-on trolls by your definition, doesn’t it.”

            No, it’s rather reconfirms yet again that you are the shallow empty headed Troll_Clown that you have always been.

        • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)

          On the other hand, Jim, you could adopt Martinned’s approach, which is to rejoice at the frequent opportunity to be able to spend a couple of happy hours shooting fish in a barrel.

          Personally, I would urge Craig to think seriously about getting rid of the comments facility – which would not prevent his words from getting out.

          Alternatively, he could appoint me Head Moderator – this blog would soon get cleaned up and the unhealthy and deranged elements would soon be off elsewhere.

          • Republicofscotland

            “Alternatively, he could appoint me Head Moderator – this blog”



            There’s more chance of Craig and Jack Straw, becoming the best of friends, than you becoming moderator of this or any other blog. ?

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)


            That would be between Craig and me, wouldn’t it, and I imagine your feelings about it would be neither sought nor welcome.

          • Republicofscotland


            Do I detect a touch of petulance in your comment ?

            Like I said, there’s more chance of the FCO welcoming Craig back with open arms, than there is of you moderating this blog, or David Icke’s blog for that matter.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            “Like I said, there’s more chance of the FCO welcoming Craig back with open arms..”

            Actually, you didn’t say that, RoS. You said:

            “There’s more chance of Craig and Jack Straw, becoming the best of friends..”

            Jack Straw is no longer Foreign Secretary, but you’ve probably already heard. 🙂

    • Ba'al Zevul

      News reports (easily googled) on the dismissal of the Belhaj case, indicate that the DPP (a) couldn’t prosecute because the alleged crime was committed out side the UK…yeah…and (b) there was insufficient evidence. More details here:

      So it’s while it’s probably not ok to grab someone with a beard from a foreign location X, and transport them to the UK for torture, it’s perfectly fine to (specifically) request someone else to take the victim to a foreign location Y where human rights are a laughing stock, and tell the inhabitants to torture your man there. As long as you deny everything, in the face of any evidence confirming what you did. It helps if, at the time, your prime minister is schmoozing the dictator of location Y in the hopes of getting BP an entry to his oilfields.

  • AdrianD

    Sorry for the off topic, but I thought you’d be interested in this short report that was added in a comment on the (most excellent) NakedCapitalism site.

    A couple of researchers have looked at the results of the Democratic primaries, comparing outcomes between states with robust vote-validation paper-trails to results in states without such safeguards (i.e. easy-fraud vs. hard-fraud states). No prizes for guessing who did better in the easy-fraud states.

    They also look at discrepancies between exit-polls and eventual outcomes. Clinton did better than the exit polls predicted across the board, but the discrepancies were significantly larger in the easy-fraud states. No such discrepancies were found in the 2008 primaries.

    The report can be found in the first comment here:

    • lysias

      According to Democracy Now! this morning, California admits 2 million ballots remain uncounted.

      • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)

        At last – a “comment” about our Transatlantic Friend’s home country.

        On the substance – it’s going to be Hillary versus The Donald, so you’d better get over it and move on.

        Although it’s true this subject will keep the TF in conspiracy theories for the next few months at least.


  • Ben Monad

    I assume the UK has a greater requirement for criminal conviction than for a civil suit. A preponderance of evidence and just 7 out of 12 jurors can find for the suit. Much higher bar for criminal conviction. But winning a civil judgement is still a victory failing the criminal. That’s where this is going I assume.

    • Pyewacket

      From memory, and I stand to be corrected, but, in UK Criminal Law, the case must be proved “beyond all reasonable doubt” and the evidence needs to support that. In Civil Law, the bar is lower, as a case only needs to be proved on “the balance of probabilities” . It goes to say that the latter may be a preferable outcome, as a Guilty as charged verdict carries no Criminal Penalty such as penal servitude.

  • giyane

    Please may I humbly point out that the human brain works on oxygen. When we first discover that our government is exceedingly corrupt, beyond all bounds as Allah describes the Zionists, it affects our breathing, ability to breathe, our ability to circulate the blood which contains the oxygen needed to process the awfulness of that realisation.

    The United States has set up dreadful torture in South America. Nobody can say that there is a connection with Zionism there. Simply that the US has encompassed evil beyond our comprehension and grown comfortable with its evil.

    I cannot therefore claim that the torture of Muslims under the CIA in the war on Islam is motivated by the hatred of Zionism. In Uzbekistan it may have derived from the all-encompassing evil of Soviet communism, likewise the incarnate evil of the Saudi Takfiris may also have derived from the brutal legacy of the Ottoman Caliphate and its predecessors in creating absolute, corrupt power.

    Sufficient to say that absolute tyrabby is extremely bad for mental and physical health of any one with a good heart, and the Qur’an has been recited for several days now in Ramadhan enumerating the respect which human beings must have for their fellow human beings.

    Daesh and Al Qaida are creations of USUKIS in order to make their own utter abominations of cruelty look civilised by comparison to the head-chopping, flesh-eting rapists.

    The fact that day-in day-out trolls skunk here with the sole purpose of shilling for the heart-stopping cruelty of USUKIS and its Saudi confederates tells me that the trolls have no hearts, no lungs, no brains.

    They are not human. They are devils, so take them as the devils that they are.

    • Ben Monad

      To your point, a re-boot is necessary…..

      “The objective history of the social structure becomes internalized as a subjective history of the psychic structure. Heinous as my view may be to modern Freudians, it is not the discipline of work but the discipline of rule that demands the repression of internal nature. This repression then extends outward to external nature as a mere object of rule and later of exploitation. This mentality permeates our individual psyches in a cumulative form up to the present day-not merely as capitalism but as the vast history of hierarchical society from its inception.[2]”

      Good piece on how libertarian socialism would work. De-centralizing gubmint and down-sizing bureaucrats is The Way.

      • John Spencer-Davis

        Hm! Where does the social structure come from in the first place? It doesn’t spring out of nowhere. It originates in the minds of humans. I would put the matter exactly the other way around. I would say that the subjective history of the psychic structure becomes externalised as the objective history of the social structure. In fact, the two reinforce each other: but the psychic structure must come first, because without the psychic structure, there would be no social structure.

        • Ben Monad

          I think you missed the point.

          “My use of the word hierarchy in the subtitle of this work is meant to be provocative. ”

          The author understands that the world we experience originates in the psyche. What he is referencing is the ‘zeitgeist’ wrt psychic structure.

          “I would say that the subjective history of the psychic structure becomes externalised as the objective history of the social structure.”

          That’s where you lose me. There is no true objective history because humans write the words and humans cannot help but be subjective.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit


    Good to see that the attendees to this year’s Bilderberg meeting in Dresden is about as good a list as one could hope for since it is a middle-of-the-road group when it comes to international politics.

    Found no Poles nor Ukrainians in attendance, milder voices from NATO, and milder still Western Europeans in government, business, manufacturing and finance.

    Kissinger will, of course, still will be attending after his demise, and Betrayus has apparently a lock on an invitation no matter what he does.

    • Republicofscotland

      “Found no Poles nor Ukrainians in attendance”


      Trowbridge H.Ford

      Well Trowbridge, it obvious your intelligence work isn’t up to scratch. ?

      Sikorski, Radoslaw (POL), Senior Fellow, Harvard

      Yet again Henry Kissinger, who’s now 93 years of age will be in attendance, in 1973 Henry Kissinger was awarded the Peace Prize together with his counterpart Le Duc Tho. The latter refused to accept the Prize, and for the first time in the history of the Peace Prize two members left the Nobel Committee in protest.

      Mind you they awarded the Nobel Peace prize in 2009, to Obama he (Obama) went on to carry out more drone strikes than any US president before him.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        Just knit-picking as I did notice Sikorski on the list, but, as you say, he was gone to Harvard, as he is finished as a government official in Poland.

        He is now a Polish immigrant, on his way apparently to the USA.

        And you didn’t even read what I said about Kissinger, and said nothing about the other 100 members.

        • Republicofscotland

          “And you didn’t even read what I said about Kissinger, and said nothing about the other 100 members.”


          On the contrary Trowbridge I did read what you said about Kissinger, regarding the other 100, as you put it, I deferred to your worldly experience, and I did not mention them, because you said it was a good list.

  • Republicofscotland

    “SIS officers came out on liaison visits but I don’t recall who they were or who they met.”


    Maybe just as well…

    • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)

      Do you mean John Prescott, aka Lord Prescott?

      Perhaps Eliot Gould is unwelll and can’t attend?

      • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

        No, Habby, I meant Sir John Scarlett, and Matthew Steven Gould, the guy who blew up Operation Crevice so much that the bombings in Madrid and London occurred. Then he was involved in recruiting Iranians to do all kinds of dirty work, especially blowing up airliners.

        He should be in someone’s cooler.

  • Habbabkuk (action is better than talk)

    At 12h16 some sock puppet using the handle “Legal Aid” pops up with the comment “all coppers are bastards” (he refers to the UK).

    When questioned, he disappears but up pops something called “Loony” (at least the handle is appropriate) to defend him by referring to something some US judges said a long time ago (about the US).

    This blog is truly infested with trolls major and trolls minor.

    Habbabkuk says : get rid of the comments facility and too bad for the innocent people who use supermarket carparks!

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)


        The “information” could easily be found elsewhere by anyone really interested (a lot of it comes from other websites anyway) and a no comments policy would stop a small group of rather peculiar people from continually foisting their obsessions onto the rest of us.

        It is true that a little discussion would sometimes be lost, but – be honest, look back over the last couple of threads – how much real discussion is there?

        • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

          Well, Habby, I’ve found posters don’t look for anything unless you just put it right in front of them.

          Take my case, for example. Posters often deny or dispute my claims but they hardly ever look for what I have posted on the internet about it, some 58,000 entries as I recall.

          And even if you link it, they hardly ever read it, never seriously.

          Posters like to stick to their ignorance and/ or errors,

          • Ben Monad

            “Posters like to stick to their ignorance and/ or errors,”

            Admitting error takes a big person.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      I see that my post at 18h01 (above) has stung “Legal Aid” into finally replying on his own account.

      Of course the replies are pretty feeble so I suppose there is still scope in the future for the aptly-named “Loony” to keep replying on “Legal Aid”‘s behalf.

      Trolls all. 🙂

    • Loony

      Oh dear. The “all coppers are bastards” comment was the expression of a subjective opinion that is incapable of being objectively verified.

      It also also acted as justification for the objective claim that you should not speak to the Police except in the presence of a lawyer. It is this objective claim that you described as idiocy. Objective claims can be verified. It so happens that this claim is supported by the entire legal profession and so is true.

      You could only have been referring to the objective part of the comment by Legal Aid since to respond to the subjective would merely constitute a difference of opinion that cannot be resolved by reference to evidence. In other words it would be the response of a troll – something you claim not to be. I am happy to take you at your word.

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        Why should replying to a subjective comment such as “all coppers are bastards” – by saying it is an idiotic comment – be the “response of a troll”?

        At the very worst, it would be a subjective reply.

        Would you say that the original subjective comment was the opinion of a troll and if not, why not?

        • Loony

          People have all sorts of opinions. Often these opinions do not rely on objective criteria, and other people may have different opinions which are also not informed by objective evidence. Arguing about subjective opinions is a pointless exercise since it is impossible to reach an informed conclusion. The only caveat to this would be that it may serve a purpose of someone interested in diverting attention from the real issue at hand. If I understand correctly a troll is interested in diverting attention from the issue at hand, and hence the pointless technique described becomes purposeful in the hands of a troll.

          The original subjective comment was not the opinion of a troll since it was a statement that did not stand alone. Rather it was used as a justifying statement to support the objective claim that you should never talk to the police except in the presence of a lawyer.

          This claim is entirely consistent with the operation of English law based legal systems. Since it forms part of the law then there must be reasons as to why it has been incorporated into the law. I provided you with a link which contains a detailed explanation as to why you should not speak to the police except in the presence of a lawyer.

          Part of this explanation is that it provides protection from police officers who are either corrupt or operating with bad intent. This is not to say that all police officers are corrupt, but given that some will be (no matter how small the minority) and you, as an interviewee, have no ability to determine the corrupt from the non corrupt then your interests are protected if you operate on the implicit assumption that the police officer in front of you may be corrupt, which for all practical purposes is the same as assuming that all police officers are corrupt.

          The two statements “all coppers are bastards” and “you should never talk to one except in the presence of a lawyer” can only be read in conjunction. Any attempt to view the former statement in isolation is manifestly illogical. There can only be two reasons why someone would do this: (i) they have an inadequate grasp of the English language or, (ii) they are operating with malice aforethought and seeking to disrupt any genuine inquiry into very serious underlying theme of this blog. Reading your vast array of comments your knowledge of the language would appear adequate, and so the conclusion is obvious.

    • Legal Aid

      Can you provide evidence that all coppers are not bastards?

      I didn’t disappear, but went out for a walk in the sunshine. You, on the other hand, have been here stressing about what I posted, and when, and why I was not posting on a hot sunny afternoon. It’s so good to know that I own you.

  • Mark Golding

    An Interpretation for Critical Thinkers or in the tangled words of others, Conspiraloons

    I have met many warrior priests who write holy orders and sacred texts of a monotheistic faith whose god is an all seeing eye of a being that knows your secrets. Within this cult humans like Craig are apostate, never to be forgiven by those in its holy order. The leaders of this faith based system are shape-shifters able to manifest themselves in many forms (Blair) and their commanders have weapons like Hell-fire delivering death by craft aptly named Predators and Reapers.

    Knowledge is precious to the warrior planners in their battle ‘think-tanks’ which is why they have developed a faith-based system of secrecy in which the deepest mysteries are held by the smallest number of believers. They have manipulated and convinced themselves of the deeper truth of their mission and accept the necessity of manipulating others in what still passes for a democracy where serving the people means they have no choice but to lie to them and to deceive them.

    Just like other religious institutions this terror driven Great British national security state generates support for it’s ever growing structure by turning itself into a lucrative global operation rallying financial support from warrior private corporations and contractors, creating corporate mercenaries, corporate spies, corporate analysts, corporate builders and corporate providers for a structure that has become the profit centre of a state within a state. The result is a religion of extreme doctrines and perpetual conflict, be it regime change, drone wars with ‘kill lists,’ humanitarian interventions, cyberwars and an ongoing, self-proclaimed global war of terror, whether ground or air, proxy or drone, in space or cyberspace that is justification enough for any act, however aggressive.

    • Ben Monad

      Nicely done. But I would add a caveat. Keyboard/Paper warriors are not Warriors in the traditional sense.

      Eschewing personal safety for the sake of justice is what makes a Warrior.

  • Loretha

    Tension rises on Temple Mount as Israel Police block Ramadan meals By Nir Hasson Jun. 9, 2016 7:44 PM

    Tensions have risen Thursday afternoon on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount after Israel police began preventing vehicles from entering the compound to deliver thousands of meals for worshippers to break their Ramadan fast.

    The tension between the police and the Waqf Muslim trust began on Thursday after an electric police vehicle wounded a Waqf security guard, who broke his leg. Waqf officials prevented on Thursday morning the police vehicle from entering the Temple Mount compound, probably in reaction to this incident. The Israel Police responded in the afternoon by preventing Waqf vehicles from entering the Temple Mount parking lot. The vehicles carry thousands of Iftar meals, which worshippers are supposed to eat after sunset to break their Ramadan fast.

    Meanwhile, tension also remains around the bathroom facility that was sealed last week by the Jerusalem municipality after the Waqf carried out works in the building without a permit. The decision to stop the work was made in a meeting that involved the prime minister.

    The police broke into the building again on Thursday, probably to make sure that no opening was made in the Temple Mount wall to enter the building. It was locked again thereafter.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Lieberman has two objectives; to provoke Palestinian reaction in order to ‘justify’ yet another major military assault, and to prepare the way for Mohammed Dahlan, currently exiled in the UAE, to replace Abbas, in charge of Fatah and the Palestinian “Authority”. The two may well be co-ordinated. Abbas is hopelessly pro-Palestinian, but Dahlan is Israel’s, and the Gulf’s, cuddly bunny.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          There’s another undercurrent. Israel would like to amplify the differences between Hamas and Islamic Jihad (now also a contender in Gaza) hopefully weakening both politically to the extent that Hamas ceases to be any threat in the occupied territories. Another turkey shoot in Gaza in the not-too-distant future would enhance this one’s effect considerably, and noises have already been made to that effect.

          Couple this with Netanyahu’s current insistence that the only route to a settlement lies in direct talks, without international involvement, between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and it’s plausible to assume that getting a shill in position who nominally represents the latter is a pretty logical course of action.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

      Thanks, Loretha, for the link to Alan Hart’s work, especially his biography of Arafat.

      You can trust him.

      In fact, he was one of the writers on Veteran Today who persuaded me to join it.

      I, however, left if after the lunacy that troll writers like Jim Fetser, Jim DiEugenio, Gordon Duff et al. provided, forcing me to resign.

      Seems Hart has too.

      • Loretha

        I thought Alan quit years ago, but his site is still up.

        Anyway, before anybody calls me an antisemite, this is the best guitarist ever:

        May he rest in peace. I saw him and I spent a couple of hours in his company at Northampton Drill Hall. He was the greatest! And he believed in peace and love. Paul Kossoff RIP

  • Legal Aid

    [ Mod: Stuck in spam-filter, but kindly stick to a single handle ]

    Assuming it isn’t, Legal Aid, obfuscating on the matter doesn’t do you any favours.

    Do you agree, or not agree for that matter, that all police officers are –

    (A) violent thugs, carrying out evil deeds at the behest of god knows who ?


    (B) There are some bad apple in the barrel, but not all police officers are violent mindless thugs ?

    A simple answer of (A) or (B) will suffice.

    B will do but it only takes one bad apple…

  • Aidworker1

    The aim of Hasbara trolls is to disrupt any blog that criticises the human rights abuse in Israel.
    They do this by posting abusive and off topic posts.
    This seems to be where we are now.
    This blog where the comments were once so informative has been hi-jacked by Hasbara I suspect based in Israel.
    Mods –please consider banning the key suspects?
    This is the best blog in the world – keep it so.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      You’re a slimy little git, aren’t you.

      Welcome back ! 🙂

      • Egal Aid

        “You’re a slimy little git, aren’t you.”

        Pot, Kettle, Black! You’ve been whining, haven’t you? Things are now getting deleted on your behalf n’est pas?

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      BTW Aidworker, you never did tell us, as once requested by someone – it may have been Anon1 -, what aid work you had actually done or were doing.

      Would you overcome your coyness now?

      I mean, it’s quite easy to call oneself something, isn’t it.

      • Ben Monad

        Well it’s certainly easy to be a fake minor prophet with a Major in coyness.

      • Gal Aid

        You’re sounding a little stressed Habby old chap. Have you been whining to teacher like the sneak you are?

        [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

      • The Dominator

        Calm down Habby! Take a chill pill, that way you might live past thirty.

        [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

      • Republicofscotland

        “I mean, it’s quite easy to call oneself something, isn’t it.”



        Its is indeed, however you’ll never call yourself moderator of this blog, or any other blog for that matter. ?

        • Legal Aid

          [ Mod: Stuck in spam-filter, but kindly stick to a single handle ]


          The answer was B.

        • Claude

          Habby is a sneak who whines to the mod behind our backs, aren’t you Habby?

          [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Hardly behind your back since my comment appeared on here for all to see.

            Gamma double minus again, I’m afraid.

      • Al Aid

        “I mean, it’s quite easy to call oneself something, isn’t it.”

        Sure is Habby, and you couldn’t resist whining to the mod, could you?

        [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

  • L Aid

    Habby posted nothing much at 21:01. Of course, since then he has gone all quiet so I suppose there is still scope in the future for the boy to come up with something worth replaying to.

    Wassamatter Habby? Did your complaints to the mods get lost? Maybe you should do the same.

    [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

    • Aid

      Well it’s now 22.32 and still no comment from Habby, so did Momma send him to bed early, one wonders?

      [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

  • John Goss

    9/11, an inside job, gave an excuse for the US and its NATO allies to change the rule of law and the rule of international law. It gave way to all kinds of abominable parliamentary acts and international manipulations of law to enable torture, imprisonment without trial, extra-judicial murder and other government crimes under the broad umbrella of a ‘war on terror’. I congratulate Craig on sticking to his principles in the face of extreme peer pressure. When history finally passes judgement on the ‘war on terror’ period he will be held up as a standard bearer and a man of integrity. That Craig does not share my view that 9/11 was an ‘inside job’ he may agree that it was the turning point at which so many new parliamentary enactments flooded the globe and all countries who doff their proverbial caps to the Mad Hatter across the Atlantic have gone along with this evil ever since. Such is the reach of the power of empires, even empires in decline.

    • Loretha

      I like the part where it says “Sixteen Stones”. ROFL

      [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread ]

      • Egal Aid

        So do I, Loretha. LMAO That’s a real tangible f…err…weight

        [ Mod: Kindly stick to one handle per thread – and quit this sock-puppet conversation with yourself, Alan. ]

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          So “Legal Aid”, “Loretha” (which handle we have seen before) and “Alan” (ditto) are all the same person?

          Why on earth should the person concerned be using three different handles?

      • RobG

        I’ve no idea what you egits are saying.

        Perhaps you can try to be intelligent and address what I’ve said?

        • Jim

          God almighty! Your name is Alan, and you’ve been publicly outed for childish sock-puppetry! And I thought I was bored. Where the hell did ‘Loretha’ come from? I was picturing an anti-Semitic (in denial) Midlands woman with a slightly ‘wrong-sounding’ guitar hero worship for Koss as an attempted alibi. How very odd!

          • Alan

            Jim – “Where the hell did ‘Loretha’ come from?”

            Her father gave her away to me in some ritual ceremony. Why do you want to know?

            Koss was a really nice guy, not just a “guitar hero”. Some “guitar heroes” have a mighty high opinion of themselves. Koss wasn’t one of them.

          • Jim

            What’s Koss’ affable nature got to do with your sock puppetry though?
            I had a play on his famous Les Paul gold top once believe it or not! It was for sale for about £20,000 in the mid ’90s, I just happened to wander into a specialist guitar shop in Southsea and some guys were drooling over it, the seller let me have a brief play. Yep, he was special.

  • oblivious

    The shocking statement given by Craig Murray is a stark reminder that many officials are immune from prosecution for the most heinous crimes against humanity. Blair’s recent attack on Jeremy Corbyn (seemingly missing the important fact that Corbyn doesn’t actually have the power to do anything about Syria) merely confirms the brass neck of the war criminal. John Major, along with Blair recently had an audience in Ulster, scaremongering over the EU vote . Why should anyone believe the word of a man who couldn’t even be honest to his wife and that of a man who manipulated and lied over Iraq, supported the attack on Libya and urges military action against Syria?
    Whilst on the subject of people with a grandiose sense of self-importance, Habbabkuk and Jim show distinct signs of suffering from NPD. Treatment is available once the sufferer acknowledges they have a problem, get well soon both of you.

    • Loony

      Your comment is absolutely correct in so far as this whole blog is stark reminder as to how some are immune from prosecution irrespective of evidence.

      Various comments affords an appreciation for the mindset that facilitates such outcomes.

      For example someone references an accepted and entirely non controversial aspect of the legal system, namely;That it is inadvisable to speak to the police absent legal representation.

      This is immediately branded as an “idiotic statement” made solely for the purposes of provocation. Further ad-hominem, irrelevant and quasi hysterical comments follow.

      All of this demonstrates an absolute contempt for the rule of law in all instances when the law is able to place a brake on actions demanded by a rampant and out of control ego. This line of thinking leads to a society where right is might and the powerful can do anything they want safe in the knowledge that for them the law has been rendered meaningless.

      No doubt these advocates of lawlessness would instantly become the most ardent supporters of the law when it comes to dealing with shoplifters and other petty criminals.

      It is little wonder that these same people are so keen to shut down free speech when they believe themselves forced to appear publicly ludicrous in their contorted efforts to prevent any comprehensive examination of the actions of their criminal paymasters.

      • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

        No, you mustn’t lie.

        What was branded as idiotic was the assertion (by sock puppet “Legal Aid”) that “all coppers were bastards”.

        • Alan

          Dear Habby, when you are at the tender age of seventeen and a member of the constabulary comes to your house and asks to see your driving licence, and your mother points to the mantelpiece and says “It came this morning”, so you open the envelope and hand it to the constable, and he promptly nicks you for not signing your driving licence, it leaves a lasting impression on a teenage mind.

          Now I am retired and I still wouldn’t trust the police. In all those years nothing I have ever seen makes me think that they are not simply a gang of control-freaks.

          I went out for the afternoon and came back to find you ranting for attention so I gave you what you wanted, now do calm down old boy, take a chill pill, and get back in your box by the back door like a good little doggie.

          • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

            Thank you for that explanation, “Legal Aid” – or should I say “Loretha”?

        • Loony

          …and you mustn’t make unsupported allegations designed only to smear.

          I have told no lies, and I have explained to you ad-nauseam why it makes no sense to brand the comment in question as idiotic.

          That you continue to do, and continue to grasp for ever more implausible justifications indicates that you are operating with an agenda. An agenda that is broadly consistent with an explanation that you now smear as a lie.

          It is noteworthy that nowhere do you claim to actually have respect for the rule of law.

  • RobG

    And also as an aside, Habba intimates that he/she went to Oxbridge.

    I am familiar with both Oxford and Cambridge, and so if Habba tells us what college he/she went to I might stop taking the piss out of this person.

    • Loretha

      “And also as an aside, Habba intimates that he/she went to Oxbridge.”

      Actually he intimated Oxford. Did you know that in Oxford you can identify the materials used in the buildings by the fossils found in them? One cannot do that in Cambridge.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      Did I intimate that?

      What I did do was suggest that Guano – who has told us he attended Oxford (as well as “a leading public school) – evidently could not have read French there since he managed to spell “shoes” as “chausseurs”.

  • RobG

    GCHQ have knocked off for the night (because they’re a bunch of lazy/corrupt bastards), all on huge amounts of tax payer’s money; cause the Muslims are coming to get us, innit.

    Ask the French at the moment: the biggest threat is English football hooligans.

    You really couldn’t make this stuff up.

  • oblivious

    A user name described as handle reminds me of the citizen band radio days. Now I wouldn’t want to cast aspersions but the word is used 15 times on this page.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    The Argentinians and The Venezualians and The Spanish are having a brilliant time with us Welsh and Scottish and Irish in Espana..I have no idea why they let us people from Lancashire England in xx

  • Silvio

    The July 1996 explosion and crash of TWA flt 800 off Long Island, NY was the first wake up call for me as to how easy it was in modern times for intelligence and law enforcement agencies of a major power to orchestrate a coverup of a significant event – even while the government itself supposedly operated under so-called democratic principles with a mainstream media we have been repeatedly assured enjoys “freedom of the press”.

    TWA 800: What the CIA Did to Mike Wire, Witness 571
    TWA 800 was destroyed twenty years ago this July off the coast of Long Island. Mike Wire was one of the 258 FBI witnesses who reported an apparent missile strike. The New York Times, which owned the story, interviewed not a single one of them. In the absence of real information, the CIA and FBI collaborated to discredit the eyewitnesses and advance an exploding fuel tank theory.

    Read more:

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      (Same request as I made to Lysias a day or so ago for the same reason)

      I’m having difficulty reading your cut-and-pastes, “Silvio” – do you think you could use a larger font? Thanks.

  • Matt Cummins

    Incredibly brave of you Craig. If only there were more like you. Very sad to hear of the devastating affects on your health and career. Very best wishes to you.

    • BDS Now !

      Its sick, the lithuanians from Pentlands have taken over England, and a real Englishman (with a Scots backbone) like CM wants to bugger off to Scotland. At this rate we can expect the pension funds of M&S tol fall in the not too distant future?!

  • Dave

    The question is was any of the information collected under torture true and of any use, or was torture, perversely since it was denied, just public relations nonsense to promote the lie that the war on terror is real, as opposed to providing a cover story for US/neo-con genocide and war!

  • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

    The Moderators’ additions appear to confirm that the blog is riddled with sock-puppets.

    The outing of “Legal Aid”/”Alan”/”Loretha” is, I imagoine, just the tip of the iceberg.

    I’ll have to bear that in mind when I produce the new version of my list of Eminences and their hangers-on for the benefit of newbies.

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