This is a transcript of the evidence I gave, at their request, to the Metropolitan Police. I published scans of the witness statements yesterday, and a commenter has kindly transcribed them to make them web searchable. I was interviewed by the Police both at my home and at their headquarters, and it was made very plain to me that not only Sir Mark Allen, but Tony Blair, Jack Straw and numerous officials in the FCO and the Security Services were in the frame. I confess I therefore always expected the Establishment would have the case dropped despite overwhelming evidence.
I first offered this evidence to the Gibson Inquiry, I was treated by that Inquiry as an important witness and Judge Gibson ordered the FCO to give me full access to all documents I saw while Ambassador, to refresh my memory. No. 10 panicked at this and other evidence that Gibson was doing a genuine job, and the Gibson Inquiry was closed down by Cameron with the active complicity of Nick Clegg. I was then told by the Gibson secretariat that the Metropolitan Police were taking over aspects of that inquiry. I was then contacted and interviewed by the Metropolitan Police and gave this evidence.
The Director of Public Prosecutions having corruptly closed down the criminal case, the matter is now purportedly under investigation by the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament – consisting entirely of “trusties” of the security services. They have continually and repeatedly refused requests by me to give evidence. I last heard from them on 15 December 2015, a simple acknowledgement of a receipt of a communication.
As nobody can claim my evidence is untrue due to the amount of documentary report, the Establishment simply ensures it does not get heard by any inquiry or court. When the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee had hearings into extraordinary rendition, they directly asked seven different witnesses – including Jack Straw – whether I was telling the truth, but they refused to call me as a witness or to accept written evidence from me.
WITNESS STATEMENT
CI Act 1967. 3.9: MC Act I980. ss.5A(3)(a) and SB; Criminal Procedure Rules 2005. Rule 27.1
Age if under 18 Over 18 (if over I3 insert ‘over 18’) Occupation: Development Consultant
This statement (consisting of pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything in it which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true.
I joined the Foreign Office in 1984 direct from University in the ‘fast stream‘ process. I held a number of posts including second secretary in Lagos, then Head of the Maritime section in London and the Cyprus section. Around 1992-l993 I was also head of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) embargo surveillance section both before and after the first Gulf War. Its role was to monitor Iraqi attempts of weapons procurement. I then served in Poland as first secretary in the Embassy and returned to London as deputy Head of the Africa Department, and thereafter in Ghana as Deputy High Commissioner. I was security cleared to Developed Vetted level and because of my earlier work in relation to Iraqi arms embargo l was given extra security clearances enabling me to view other sensitive intelligence material up to including various extra codewords over and above Top Secret. I have never worked for either the Security Service (SYS) or Secret Intelligence Service (SIS). I speak both Polish and Russian.
In August 2002 I took up the role as Ambassador, at the Embassy in Uzbekistan. I was given very little formal pre posting briefing by the FCO and met the outgoing ambassador Chris INGRAM only for about half an hour during which we only discussed a staff issue regarding an embassy member called Chris HIRST. Ihe staff at the Uzbekistan Embassy included a Defence Attache, an assistant, a Deputy Head of Mission, a third secretary, a management officer, consular ofiicer and assistant. My number two was an acting second secretary called Karen MORAN. I didn’t have many staff or much ability to discuss matters with them.
After my arrival in Uzbekistan as part of my role I viewed certain intelligence material originating from Uzbekistan. This material came to me from SIS in London and was sent to them by the CIA via the CIA Headquarters in Washington. It was sent to me if SIS thought it appropriate information I should be aware of. The only person security cleared to see such telegrams were I and Karen MORAN in her role as Deputy Head of Mission (DHM).
I was aware even before I arrived in Uzbekistan that the Uzbekistan security services had a terrible reputation for torture that included for example using boiling water on individuals as well as electrocution. I never whilst in Uzbekistan ever had direct involvement with the Uzbekistan security services, SIS officers came out on liaison visits but I don’t recall who they were or who they met.
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Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..
In my new role I was proactive in meeting local Uzbekistan people and I had only been there a couple of weeks when I attended a trial of dissidents accused of terrorism. More than one witness tried to change their original account claiming it was made under torture. I found them credible that they were tortured to give a false account. The United Nations special rapporteur on torture came out to Uzbekistan to do a special report and we arranged for torture victims to see him.
The intelligence that was sent to me by SIS at this time concerned me on two grounds; firstly it showed how systematic the torture was by the Uzbekistan security services as the intelligence was coming from tortured detainees. And secondly the quality of the intelligence was inaccurate. I knew these from my first hand experience in Uzbekistan and I knew individual facts could be shown to be false.
I came to these conclusions after about three to four months of being in Uzbekistan. This was due to the fact I had been doing some work around tortured Uzbekistan detainees and I could see links with the intelligence I was seeing. Most of the intelligence didn’t name the detainees but it had similar trends such as Al Qaeda (AQ) membership or attending AQ training camps which wasn’t true. I was aware that my defence attache Colonel RIDOUT had been to one training camp location that was cited in the intelligence reports and found they did not exist. I knew that Uzbekistan was getting money and arms from the United States and I believed the Uzbekistan government were exaggerating the AQ threat in response. I believe this was a view shared by colleagues in the Embassy.
My concerns revolved around the intelligence and the cooperation between the Uzbekistan security services and CIA. I was uneasy about what the US were not doing to stop the torture. I decided something was going wrong and London (the FCO) must have not known about the torture. I asked Karen MORAN who had regular meetings with the US mission in Uzbekistan to ask the US about the intelligence flow from torture and to confirm from the US mission that it in fact was not from torture. Karen told me that the US response she received was that the intelligence was from torture however it was justified in the ‘war on terror‘. This response was possibly from the US Mission political counsellor.
On about 17th December 2002 I wrote a telegram back to London setting out my concerns. I have obtained a redacted version of that telegram under a Freedom of lnformation request I made I produce a copy of which as CJM/l telegram number I47 of I7/I2/2002 at 0345. It was addressed to the permanent under secretary (PUS) Sir Michael JAY as he was the head of the Diplomatic Service and Michel WOOD the Foreign Office legal advisor as it dealt with legal issues. I also sent it to relevant UK Missions (UKMIS) who had interest/deal in torture policy, these included New York, Geneva, Vienna and ‘Organisation Security and Cooperation in Europe‘ (OSCE) of which Uzbekistan is a member. lf you send a telegram on policy it is practice that it is also sent to other UK Missions who have an interest as with this telegram.
I don‘t know how I received a response but I got a message back stating that I could discuss the matters with William ERHMAN during an Ambassadors conference that l was due to attend in London in January 2003. I believe this message originated from Sir Michael JAY and I believe it is back referenced as telegram 323 of 2002 which appears on the next telegram I sent.
In January 2003 I returned as planned to London for a few days and could not get hold of William ERHMAN so the conversation I intended never took place with him. I subsequently returned to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and it was around this time I was aware public concern had just started regarding detainee issues in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. I seemed to be the only person within the FCO who was worried about it. I had never done this before by that I mean flagged up these kinds of issues/concerns.
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Continuation of Statemait of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..
On 22nd January 2003 I sent another telegram this was addressed to William ERHMAN again I produce a redacted copy that was supplied to me under a Freedom Of Information request I made as exhibit CJM/2 on it there is the back reference 323 which I believe was the response originating from Michael JAY that I previously referred to. ‘The telegram essentially states the same as my first. I did not receive a response to any of the points: this is unheard of because if an Ambassador writes a telegram in relation to a policy matter there is always response. I was frustrated and could not understand why there was no written reply on this policy on torture.
Shortly after this I was asked back to London to discuss the issues I had raised. I can’t recall what method this summons was communicated to me. I believed I was coming back to London to see Sir Michael JAY however I never did see him.
I thought I was in trouble due to the nature of the recall to London and I suspected I was going to be sacked. I returned to London on 6th March 2003 I don‘t recall what dictated the timing but it was two weeks before the war started in Iraq. At that time, with the ‘dodgy dossier‘ going around supporting the war and my concerns regarding the inaccurate intelligence I had seen, the atmosphere was not good at the FC0. It was not the best time to be saying openly that our intelligence was not reliable. A retired ambassador had stated that we should not go to war as the intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) was not reliable. From evidence subsequently given in the Chilcott enquiry I believe Sir Michael WOOD had advised Jack STRAW at the time, it was not legal to go to war in Iraq. So all this was going on around my return to London.
I was called into a meeting on the 7″‘ or 8″‘ March 2003 with Linda DUIFFIELD who was the Director Wider Europe (DWE) and my counter signing manager. This meeting took place in her office and she told me Sir Michael JAY wanted to see me but was too busy. With her at the meeting were Michael WOOD and Matthew KIDD who I believe was from MI6 (SIS), he was introduced as being Permanent Under Secretary Department (PUSD) which is a liaison department that deals with SIS. It was a two part meeting with either a private discussion between Linda and myself and then a gmcral discussion with everyone present or the other way around I can’t recall now. She told me that ‘JAY was not pleased I had put things in writing, things like that should not be in writing.‘ In the general meeting with all three she stated Jack Straw had seen my telegrams (CIM/l and CIM/2) and they ‘troubled him and he lost sleep at night over this‘. Also that he had met ‘C’ Sir Richard DEARLOVE and discussed whether, in relation to the ‘war on terror‘ should intelligence from torture be used. Also that Jack Straw made the decision that I should not send over ‘emotional and melodramatic’ telegrams like these and that intelligence and torture were ministerial decisions.
In the general meeting Sir Michael WOOD stated he had looked at the United Nations convention on torture and that it was his legal position that if we didn’t ask someone to be tortured but got intelligence from torture then we were doing nothing illegal.
I asked him about complicity in torture and Article 3 and 4 of the UN Convention on torture. Sir Michael WOOD stated that he didn’t know but Article l6 allowed us to get intelligence from torture but it could not be used in court. Mr KIDD went on to add that intelligence coming from Tashkent was useful to SIS. I told him the intelligence wasn’t true. He disageed with this.
A formal response to my telegrams was read out to me by Linda with everyone present and she told me the response would not be sent as these things were best not put in writing.
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Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..
I produce a copy of the minutes of this meeting again supplied to me under a Freedom of lnformation request I made which 1 exhibit as CIMI3. I do not accept the minutes as a full and accurate account of the meeting. it was not sent to me in draft afierwards for ‘signing off‘ which was practice. It also mentions l was given a revised telegram which I was not. I was shown it but not to keep and it was never sent to me.
Afler this meeting I went back to Tashkent. Later in 2005 I obtained a message dated l4/3/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of lnfonnation request I made which I exhibit as CJM/4. This indicates Jack Straw saw the minutes of the meeting referred to in exhibit CIM/3. There were hundreds of meetings at the FCO each day and it would be very rare for minutes to be seen by Jack STRAW unless he had previous documents regarding the matter i.e. my original telegrams and an explanatory briefing from Sir Michael Jay or another oflicial. Simon McDONALD was Jack Straw’s number 2 private secretary and Alan CHARLTON was Head of Personnel.
Whilst in Tashkent l was concerned my career was ruined. I had upset my line managers and I decided I wasn‘t going to say anything else as I was extremely concerned about my future.
I was then told that my third secretary Chris HIRST had attacked a blind person in the street with a baseball bat. I had been told by my predecessor that he had been accused of doing something similar before, but that my predecessor had supported him, this was the staff issue I referred to earlier in this statement. I personally had witnessed his verbally violent outbursts in a local bar before. I knew that as a result of this baseball bat incident that he had to go, which he did. After this I then found papers regarding Chris HIRST that had been hidden from me by his partner Karen MORAN and I learnt she had destroyed other similar documents. As a result of this Karen had to go as well.
At this time I was not receiving any replies from London and asked them why they were ignoring me but got no response.
In June 2003 Colin REYNOLDS from the Foreign Office arrived in Uzbekistan ostensibly to find out what was happening at the Embassy with the sudden departure of Karen and Chris. He had been sent out by Alan CHARLTON. All the Embassy staff was seen by Colin and the staff told me that in fact he was asking them not about Chris & Karen as they expected but things about me such as my drinking habits and whether I used prostitutes. The staff were confused and surprised. I let Colin finish the interviews of staff and then l asked him what was going on as it seemed to me that he was investigating me. He told me not to worry and that he had been instructed to investigate allegations raised about me. He would not tell me what those allegations were. He later as I understand reported back to London that the staff supported me and there were no issues. I obtained a copy of his findings dated 26/6/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of information request I made which I exhibit as CJM/5. This confirms he reported that all the staff supported me. The report has been ec‘d to amongst others Harvey BOWYER of the FCU. This is the internal audit section called the Financial Compliance Unit (FCU) l did‘t know where this fitted into the investigation by Colin REYNOLDS. However a few months later a team fiom the FCU internal audit came to the embassy to go through all our accounts. All they found at the end of their audit was that I owed about $20 for a lunch for which I lost the receipt, this I repaid. It appeared to me that they were plainly out to get me and I thought I had survived: the only criticism of me was the handling of the HIRST matter.
In July after Colin REYNOLDS left I then went on holiday. London then sent out Dominic SCHROEDER from the FCO political Eastern Department who came and interviewed the same staff as Colin Reynolds again after which he came up with some 18 discipline offences against me.
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Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..
In August I was called back from holiday in Canada to London to see Howard DRAKE the personnel department director. Present at this meeting were Tessa REDMAYNE of the personnel department and Kate SMITH who was my union representative. At this meeting Howard DRAKE asked me to resign and I declined this is detailed in a report he completed dated 27/8/2003 that was sent to me for ‘clearance’. I produce a copy as exhibit CJM/6. During this meeting l was told that if I forgot about Tashkent that I would be offered another ambassadorship, but I declined this. It was at this meeting that I first became aware of the allegations albeit Colin REYNOLDS had previously told me they were nonsense. The source of the allegations was never disclosed to me.
All the disciplinary allegations were false and around this time my security clearance was up for review. My security clearance reviewer contacted me to state my clearance had been passed by him but it had then been sent back to him and he had been put under pressure not to clear me. He said that he was sticking by his recommendation and my clearance was renewed.
l was suspended for four months and sent back to Tashkent and told not to speak to anyone about the outstanding allegations. l was banned from entering embassy buildings and the stress of it all caused my health to collapse. I suffered severe heart and lung problems as a result.
After four months of investigation l was cleared of all l8 allegations: there was a formal hearing in relation to two matters only. These related to being seen with a ‘hangover’ by a local member of staff in Tashkent and secondly misusing an embassy car, l was cleared on both counts and the evidence against me was shown to be rubbish or non-existent.
l was however found guilty of telling someone about the existence of the allegations when I returned to Tashkent for which I was given a final written warning in January 2004.
Later in June 2004 one of the initial telegrams l had written was somehow leaked to the Financial Times newspaper and the Times printed sections of it. This was not done by me and although I denied it I was suspended as a result and in February 2005 I resigned from the Civil Service. I was given six years early retirement severance pay.
I firmly believe that the allegations against me were knowingly false or grossly exaggerated,. and were concocted against me deliberately to silence me after l was the only senior civil servant to enter a written objection to the policy of collusion in torture. As a consequence my career was destroyed and my health permanently damaged.
In an extensive interview with CNBC at an economic conference in St. Petersburg, President Vladimir Putin insisted that he hopes for a peaceful outcome to the crisis in Ukraine and will support the presidential election there on Sunday.
He was asked about President Obama’s accusation that Putin had lied about Russia’s role in stoking conflict in Ukraine.
“Who is he to judge?” Putin said, according to an interpreter. “Who is he to judge, seriously? If he wants to judge people, why doesn’t he get a job in court somewhere?” “I don’t think he ‘accused’ me, it’s his point of view and I have my point of view when it comes to certain things.”
Putin: “What is it that interested you about what he [Obama] said?”
Interviewer: Urrrm…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpuX3GzNt8Y
His new BFF agrees about Obama http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Putin-to-Netanyahu-Were-unconditional-allies-in-the-war-against-terror-456193#article=6017NEU4QUYzNDNERjhEM0E1MEQ5RTk3MUE0Q0I3ODFBRDI=
Hitler used to go on about seeking peaceful outcomes, didn’t he?
Austria, Czechoslovakia and Danzig refer.
*****************************
In addition: what is this Putin nonsense about Obama “judging” anyone? Obama is perfectly entitled to make political statements – which is what it was.
The Committee Against Torture Follow-Up Rapporteur adopted a progress report on the U.S. compliance in a closed session in Geneva a month ago, May 10. The follow-up assessment has been closely held, probably because UN special procedures have described US torture as ‘systematic and widespread,’ the legal threshold for crimes against humanity, and because extradited convict Sabrina DeSouza’s best strategy is denunciation of CIA torture. Do any of the civil society organizations of the USHR Network CAT Taskforce have access to Mr. Murray’s original scanned testimony? The documented specifics of CIA acquiescence, elicitation, and attempted justification could be an important input to the CAT’s List of Issues Prior to Reporting, and to related proceedings in universal jurisdiction. Melina Milazzo of the Center for Victims of Torture is the Task Force co-chair.
Westminster. June 2006. Joint Committee on Human Rights .Phillippe Sands:
Sands, who is a professor of Law, glided smoothly into the discussion of UK torture that George Bush had made it legal in the war on terror. He then questioned its legality.
That is like the other Phillip, present Tory Foreign Secretary, Hammond, declaring that Saudi executions are legal under Saudi Law, and therefore perfectly acceptable.
There must be a legal term for this line of moral ambivalence. Indeed Craig himself has used it when he suggests that mutually consensual sex is always legitimate. The head of the Deobandis in the UK argued the same when he stated that sex outside marriage between Muslim men and non-Muslim women is a matter of concern only for the people doing it and Allah.
The problem is that moral ambivalence, by which an obvious crime is normalised by a representative of the legislature, subverts the universally accepted law.
We are as human beings essentially and necessarily morally ambivalent. We are built that way by Allah. The angels are not built that way because they are programmed to obedience. Humans have choice. They can either hold on to a universally accepted law, or break it. Kufr, or disbelief, is when a human denies that the universal law is universal. There are grey areas, exceptions. God or the Geneva Convention or any other legislative authority didn’t know what they were talking about when they created the universally accepted law.
The UK cannot at the same time accept the intrinsic wrongness of torture and excuse itself by reference to its political partners. If you’re going to sleep with someone outside marriage it is reprehensible to claim that they were war-booty from centuries of British colonialism, or consensual partners in deceiving their own legal partners. Better just to say that you broke the law and you are ashamed of your actions.
When Phillippe Sands, Phillip Hammond, or the head of the Deobandis, cite an alternative to the universally accepted law, they are personally responsible, as professional lawyers, for subverting the law.
What Phillippe Sands should have said in his testimony to the JCHR in June 2006, which I attended personally, is that George Bush was definitely in contempt of the Geneva Convention by declaring torture legal in the war on terror. That would have told the committee in plain English that the only question to consider is whether the UK did , or didn’t do , torture , or use evidence from torture.
But then he might not get a professorship in Law. The whoppers ambitious men and women tell to get positions of high status, they will be held accountable for, if not by men and women, then by Allah.
MODS
Can you not do something to stop this sort of filth appearing on the blog?
Wherever it comes from it is bound to cause reputational damage.
I suspect that “BDS Now!” is the latest incarnation of “English Knight”.
BTW-for all those who are unaware Google (a $750b company that does not want to be sued and hence does not advertise this) has free high grade OCR built into its Google Drive, all you have to do is upload any pdf,scan,etc (eg CMs scanned testimony) in portrait, and right click the uploaded file to open in Google Docs. Eg – Any book over 50 years may be scanned page by page and turned into an ebook now but please be aware of copyright issues on all other stuff OCRed.
You had better start with Mein Kampf then.
Lone Wolf shoots up gay bar
http://news.sky.com/story/1710712/orlando-nightclub-attack-around-20-dead
The news is full of the outrageous behaviour of nationalists in France last night. As which country’s nationalists started it it was nationalists to blame. Isn’t it time people woke up and realised if we want a world without wars then we should be moving towards a world without nationalism.
Fred I agree with you. Nationalism is always a diversion. By definition putting a circle round us, excludes all you outside the circle. It will end in tears.
The Kurds eat sheep stomach stuffed with rice and nuts. Delicious. But don’t ask me to eat Haggis, because it has a nationalist trademark. Nationalism is a dead-end or appendix. Sometimes has to be completely removed.
Giyane…haggis has a nationalist trademark? It seems I can’t buy any packaged foods these days without it being emblazoned with a British union flag. I’m off to have a double single malt and some salmon with haggis on the side. Whose birthday is it? There seems to be a protracted nationalist kerfuffle regarding some old lady.
Maybe, but it is not even clear that the aim is achievable. Nationalism/tribalism appears petty constantly throughout recorded history. As population continues to rise and resources dwindle you can expect more fighting for resources. This fighting will require the forming of groups, and it looks most likely that these groups will coalesce around nationalism.
War is not the only problem. For example less than 1,000 people died in the Falklands War. Something is excess of 11,000 people per year are murdered by firearms in the US each year. Does it really matter to a person if he is shot in a war or gunned down on the street.
So how about if we move away from nationalism and Americans tries to solve their shooting problems as well?
Indeed, who could argue with the sentiment. The question is whether it is possible. History would suggest that it is not.
Sometimes if you attempt things that cannot work then the disappointment of failure effectively exacerbates the original problem you were trying to address. Maybe this is what is happening with the EU in front of our eyes today.
When times get tough nationalism seems to rise always and everywhere. The British have never completely solved the problems in Northern Ireland. Whether you agree with it or not Scottish nationalism is on the rise. It is not just the UK – there are Catalan and Basque nationalists in Spain.
If people do not organize on nationalist lines then they seem to organize on religious lines – Islam and Judaism are the largest examples, and there is also the relatively trivial but deeply unpleasant sectarianism.
Maybe nationalism is better than division based on religious lines. I do not know, It is a complicated matter,
“Indeed, who could argue with the sentiment. The question is whether it is possible. History would suggest that it is not.”
If we took that attitude to everything nothing would ever change. Slavery would still be accepted women wouldn’t have the vote and homosexuality would still be a crime. If someone had told me when I was a teenager that one day bottles of water would sell for more than bottles of beer I’d have said that was not possible but I was proven wrong. History is not our master, it can’t stop us trying to make the world a better place.
FRANCE
FRANK
SANK
SAP
SNP
Some of the news blames the French Police, who are just as bad as their UK counterparts.
‘We were caged and treated like animals’: Jamie Vardy’s wife Rebekah tells of ‘horrific’ treatment by French police
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637121/Jamie-Vardy-s-wife-tear-gassed-police-treating-fans-like-animals-way-England-Russia-game.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/euro-2016-russia-face-uefa-investigation-as-england-fans-are-chased-from-stadium-a7077371.html
The violence earlier in the day was far more severe, when English fans who had been drinking in the sun for much of the day found themselves set upon by gangs of Russians, many wearing uniform black T-shirts. Some of the English were simply too drunk to escape the faster, fitter Russians who clearly arrived intending violence. They were attacked with any weapon that came to hand.
So why are some insisting on blaming the English fans?
When they should be blaming what it is the English fans and Russian fans have in common.
Fred says “what it is the English fans and Russian fans have in common.”
That’s easy; they like watching football, which IMHO makes them brain-dead but then I like ice-hockey.
Lot’s of people like watching lots of things. It’s what these people have in common which makes them want to kill each other needs to be stopped.
“So why are some insisting on blaming the English fans?”
You mean you actually believe accounts from drunken English fans that it is they who are the suffering victims?
The accounts of English fans – drunk or not – being attacked by Russian fans also come from people other than English fans, including from the French authorities.
Do try to restrain your anti-English silliness, Laguerre, you a teacher an’ all! You should be ashamed of yourself.
More on that:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/disabled-england-fans-wheelchairs-desperately-8171454
Rebekah Vardy, the new wife of England striker Jamie, said she and fellow England supporters had been “teargassed, caged and treated like animals.”
She tweeted: “That has to be up there with the worst experience EVER at an away game!
See! Police brutality!
When international relations break down and nothing gets done amongst much rough talk in back rooms, the official noises are concerned, whilst politician smile.
The media whips it up and those in charge, this time in France, react according what they perceive as the general alienation.
Mrs. Vardy should have expected a nice comfortable seat, but seems to prefer to be in the melee of fans who are drinking and throwing bottles at police, primeval herds of drinking thugs. why is that?
And which idiots are making out that Hooligans don’t exist anymore. They exist in any footballing nation you care to mention, wait for tonight’s game against Germany and watch Ms. Nulands foot soldiers, the Bandera thugs in action.
Alan
I hope you’ll forgive me for saying so but you seem quite obsessive to me. In the clinical sense, I mean, manifesting a strong sense of persecution and an unusually vivid imagination.
In your case, it(s about the police.
There are a couple of other clinical obsessives on this blog. The ones that comes to mind immediately are Trowbridge and Roderick Russell. Happily the latter does not post very often on here (but I imagine he’s busy on other websites, including his own).
What appears to be common, to all of this blog’s clinical obsessives is a great degree of unclarity. Even after re-reading their posts three times, one is still never quite clear what the problem actually is.
Thus, in the case of Roderick Russell, the starting point appears to be that his troubles started after he was sacked – but we are still not clear WHY he was sacked. In your own case, the starting point is that you got nicked when you were seventeen – but it is still not clear WHAT yo were nicked for.
I draw no conclusions from all of this, except perhaps to think that this could be another good reason why the blog should divest itself of its comments facility.
“I hope you’ll forgive me for saying so but you seem quite obsessive to me. In the clinical sense”
____________
Habb
I’m sure the mods on Craig’s wonderful blog feel the same way about, and your obsession, sadly you’ll never make it to mod status. ?
I believe that in order to diagnose clinical obsession it is a requirement that you be medically qualified. Are you a Dr.?
Or, are you in fact this man?
http://www.cps.gov.uk/westmidlands/cps_west_midlands_news/man_pleads_guilty_of_impersonating_a_doctor_/
If, like the England fans, you have suffered Police Brutality, this may assist you. That includes you Habba, my little pet.
http://www.policebrutality.co.uk/
I’m obsessive about freedom and democracy.
Flush out fakes
You are of course qualified to make clinical diagnoses about people with whom you have no connection, but to whom you have political objections. Stasi-man?
FLUSH OUT LIES
Responding to Habakkuk’s untruthful comment – “Thus, in the case of Roderick Russell, the starting point appears to be that his troubles started after he was sacked”
Let me be crystal clear on this: I WAS NOT SACKED AS HABAKKUK HAS SO UNTRUTHFULLY STATED, I RESIGNED AND FURTHERMORE WAS TWICE ASKED TO WITHDRAW MY RESIGNATION DURING MY LONG NOTICE PERIOD. Indeed I have written references from the company that confirm the truth as I have stated it above.
Yes, I gathered that this untruthful rumor that I was sacked was being deliberately circulated at one time and though I don’t know why the threats AND intimidation started up, the most likely reason was in my opinion to terrorize me into silence so that this lying rumour could circulate freely behind my back, and I would be too scared to contradict it
As for Habakkuk’s “clinical obsessiveness” comments, these are the tactics of a troll and are sometimes referred to as cyber harassment or cyber bullying.
HABAKKUK IS A LIAR as well as a troll. If Habakkuk wishes to stand by his statement that I was sacked, then he should indicate its source and contact details. It is completely untrue and Habakkuk has been lied to by those who have put him up to this.
@ Rodrick Russell
“I WAS NOT SACKED AS HABAKKUK HAS SO UNTRUTHFULLY STATED, I RESIGNED AND FURTHERMORE WAS TWICE ASKED TO WITHDRAW MY RESIGNATION DURING MY LONG NOTICE PERIOD.”
___________________________
Fine – I shall amend my post to read as follows:
“Thus, in the case of Roderick Russell, the starting point appears to be that his troubles started after he resigned..”
But it is nowhere clear – either on here or in the long screeds which appear on your own blog – WHY you resigned.
So my essential point – that of the lack of clarity in the stories of the various clinical obsessives I identified – still stands.
Would you like to take this opportunity to tell readers clearly why you resigned?
Thank you.
Poor Habb, forever putting his foot in his mouth, this time his faux pas concerns Rodrick Russell, who quite rightly put gaff prone Habb in his place.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the poster who desperately want to oversee this blog as a moderator, I doubt even the zany Infowars blog would touch him with a barge pole. ?
Mr Russell is not “a clinical obsessive”. What draws you to make a sort of medical diagnosis? Are you suggesting that he has obsessive compulsive disorder? That would be the medical term. But there is no evidence from any of his posts or other interactions of that, or any other, condition. And why he resigned is almost beside the point. Perhaps he didn’t like the carpets, or the people, or the work?
Whether in the USSR, East Germany in the past or here and now in the UK, Political dissidents and whistle-blowers not infrequently are portrayed as being ‘ill’ – it’s just one more type of attack on their credibility. Look at Craig’s own experience in this respect.
I forget to mention “Chris Rogers”, not because he is eminently forgettable but because he seems to have opted for early retirement. (And they say there’s no God! 🙂 )
Chris Rogers has a life. Strange tho’ the concept may be to a GCHQ virtual entity and parasitic virus like yourself..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/over-3000-police-officers-being-investigated-for-alleged-assault-and-almost-all-of-them-are-still-on-10220091.html
Over 3,000 police officers being investigated for alleged assault – and almost all of them are still on the beat
Can’t you ‘handle’ Chris Rogers not being active, Hababbkuk?
Fred.
Fred appears to be obsessed with the word nationalism, in all its forms. ?
And you? You even have it incorporated into your name!
Fred, if only just on that count shows as being utterly SANE!
The news is full of the outrageous behaviour of nationalists? Do you see the coverage of the birthday of a ninety year old lady of massive privilege? The red white and blue.The flags,the military parades the air force flyovers. The sycophantic public display of English nationalism is perhaps not seen as nationalism by your good self?
I should call it a manifestation of patriotism (read Orwell for the difference between nationalism and patriotism) and, above all, of love and appreciation for a Monarch-Head of State who has served the nation well over decades.
You seem to be a republican cnut-ter. Am I right?
It’s Fred’s friends in the Internationalist New World Order movement who’ve been causing the wars.
Not Nationalists.
Often. Very often. Tribal groupings, nationalist groupings will be used as proxies on the chessboard. These tribal and nationalist groupings will have been placed in conflictual positions by those who drew the lines on the map.
Africa and the Middle East being classic examples. Eastern Europe another being currently exploited.
The Kurds. Another classic.
Ask yourself why the imperialists drew the lines on the map the way they did, pitting one group against another in some places, dividing groups in other places.
It was the creation of tension, wasn’t it. Stored energy to be used at a later stage.
That’s what’s being used now in the various war theatres against the rise of an independent East.
What people have to ask themselves is do they want to live in a world dominated by those who crafted things this way or would they prefer a multipolar world.
Anyway. The more local control people have the better for everyone. It’s more local control we should be aiming for rather than nationalism, which is just a Fred red herring.
Fred’s vision is a nightmare of control freakery on a global scale.
It’s a world run by Hillary and her friends or more local control.
It’s that simple!
“It’s Fred’s friends in the Internationalist New World Order movement who’ve been causing the wars.”
I don’t have any friends in the New World Order movement shit for brains.
Now fuck off and stop t6elling lies about me cunt.
But, Fred.
You’re against anyone breaking away from the New World Order.
So, even by default, you’re a supporter of the New World Order.
You’re an imperialist.
Not my fault if you don’t fully appreciate the implications of your own position.
I told you I have no friends in the New World Order movement
Now fuck off and stop telling lies about me cunt.
So why do you support their agenda?
I don’t.
Now fuck off and die retard.
You do, Fred.
You do.
In attacking everyone who tries to break away from the New World Order you inevitably support that Order.
It’s straightforward enough.
You’re an old fashioned imperialist.
That’s where your arguments lead.
“You do, Fred.”
Are you deaf daft or just plain stupid?
I told you I don’t support the New World Order.
Now fuck off and die retard.
Your arguments, stances, positions support the New World Order agenda, whether you know it or not.
That’s simply an objective fact.
I think we’ll just leave it there.
It’s becoming a bit repetitive now.
“Your arguments, stances, positions support the New World Order agenda, whether you know it or not.”
No they don’t whether you know it or not.
Now fuck off and die you nasty little retard creep before I get insulting.
So, explain how your oft stated positions conflict with the New World Order agenda.
“So, explain how your oft stated positions conflict with the New World Order agenda.”
Which part of “fuck off and die” didn’t you understand?
Fred
“Your arguments, stances, positions support the New World Order agenda, whether you know it or not.””
______________________
Mummy know best – thus speaks Professor ‘Erbie.
Par for the course for someone who dodges serious debate by referring to his “big picture” insights (which he never sets out in any detail either).
You’re posting on a public forum, Fred.
I’m challenging the ill thought out nonsense you spout.
If you can’t stand by it, then that’s that exposed.
Job done!
“his “big picture” insights (which he never sets out in any detail either).”
This needs rethinking, perhaps.
“I speak out against things like nationalism, racism, Zionism, paedophilia”
Yes, yes.
You’re the right little social justice warrior, no doubt, picking at all the right scabs.
The problem is that you don’t really understand the implications of the positions you take.
The nationalist thing is a case in point.
You accuse everyone who wants to break from the empire of being evil, basically.
When all they want to do is escape the collapsing empire.
They want local control.
People like you who place the arguments in such childish and crass terms are an impediment to multipolarity and an assistance to the New World Order.
It’s not you particularly, of course, but rather the arguments you spout, and more importantly those same arguments as they’re repeated day and daily on mainstream media.
It’s a game of arguments, and yours are very much on the empire side of things.
“The problem is that you don’t really understand the implications of the positions you take”
Yes I do.
You don’t.
You understand fuck all.
So, if you understand the implications of your position on nationalism, where all who wish to leave the empire must be attacked.
What is the logical conclusion of that position.
No one can leave, according to you. It’s evil to leave.
Which is the same as the New World Order position. Though they kill those who try to leave.
You haven’t explained how your position can lead to any other conclusion.
Though you were given many opportunities to do so.
Anyway. Here’s your homework.:
“Relax, ” said the night man,
“We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NTqZ347TKY
“So, if you understand the implications of your position on nationalism, where all who wish to leave the empire must be attacked”
How many more times?
Yes I understand.
You don’t.
You’ve been given every opportunity, Fred, to explain how the positions you take can lead to anything other than full spectrum dominance New World Order.
You’re incapable of doing that.
I mean, if no one can leave, no one can leave. That’s your position.
Simple enough.
You’ve no alternative argument which shows that your position can lead in any other direction than a world dominated by Hillary’s handlers.
It’s fair enough to assume at this stage that you haven’t the faintest clue what you’re talking about.
“You’ve been given every opportunity, Fred, to explain how the positions you take can lead to anything other than full spectrum dominance New World Order.”
————
“Nationalism has a way of oppressing others”. Noam Chomsky.
You are the one trying to dominate, you are the one trying to dictate to me what I can and can’t believe, I don’t tell you what to believe. If you leave me alone I leave you alone.
I’m a free man and a free thinker, you can’t bully me so just fuck off.
Oh dear.
Fred.
Chomsky supported Scottish independence.
You see. This is your problem.
You don’t understand the broader argument.
That’s why you don’t understand why Chomsky can hold to both the statement you’ve quoted above AND support for Scottish independence.
What you should be doing is asking yourself why he can do this, and not you.
“Chomsky supported Scottish independence.”
But he didn’t support oppression.
This is your problem, you are a bigot, you think you are the only one entitled to an opinion, you think you have the right to bully your twisted version of reality you invented in your warped mind onto everyone.
You don’t bully me, I just tell you to fuck off and die.
Yes, Fred.
Chomsky doesn’t support oppression.
So when he supported Scottish independence he obviously didn’t think it was oppression, did he.
He’s therefore seeing something, you’re not.
And what he’s seeing is what I’ve been trying to explain to you over the past wee while.
The bigger picture.
Kinda got there in the end.
“So when he supported Scottish independence he obviously didn’t think it was oppression, did he.”
The oppression I referred to was your oppression, your trying to force your twisted views onto others, your trying to bully those with different opinions. Your bigotry.
Do you understand yet? Has it sunk in? You are not what you think you are, you are deluded, which wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t try to force your delusions onto others.
Now will you fuck off and die.
If Chomsky can support Scottish independence, whilst being critical of nationalism, it shows that he thinks his critique of nationalism is not an impediment to his support for Scottish independence.
Your position is very different.
Your position is that because you can attach the term nationalism to Scottish independence, then that means Scottish independence is a bad thing.
A remarkably stupid argument.
So long as you post on this board I’ll continue to point up the flaws in your utterances.
If you don’t like it, you know what you can do.
The only thing clear about you, Fred, is that you can’t show anything.
You certainly can’t defend your opinions.
All you’re good for is irrelevant childish insults.
And that I believe is the explanation for your position on Scottish independence.
It’s just some mental outburst of abuse.
There’s no thought behind it and certainly nothing approaching argument and evaluation.
You’re little more than a demented dog barking at passers by.
Still. It’s worth exposing just how little substance there is behind the bark.
Herbie thunders:
“You’re posting on a public forum, Fred.
I’m challenging the ill thought out nonsense you spout.”
__________________________
But Herbie and his friends don’t seem to like it when I challenge their ill-thought-out nonsense.
Could they be hypocrites?
You challenge, habby?
I often respond to your interventions. And you quite quickly run away.
Not much I can do about that.
But if you’ve anything substantive to contribute, please be my guest.
Thirteen “paragraphs” to explain something “that simple”.
Hilarious!
How would you have put it, habby.
Remember to include ALL the elements above.
Looking forward to seeing your version.
Why should I waste my time improving your nonsense, Herbie?
You really are something, aren’t you 🙂
OK
When you said “that simple” above, what were you referring to?
A concept or something, or what.
After that exchange with Fred when he spat into your face ‘Herbie’ as many times you asked for it, we can really see that you’re not the wise man of this blog, as you like to see yourself, Big Picture et al.
Sorry to put a pin through your self-image of the man who has is it all figured out. You don’t and on top of that you are a complete time-waster.
You know, Villager.
Ultimately it’s a fight between spirituality and tradition against scientism and technocracy.
You really should be with those who favour multipolarity, given your love of Krish.
Unless you too don’t understand the implications of the positions you take.
You could simply be a complete fraud, of course.
I’m well beyond all your ‘ism’s Herbie and all your analysis-paralysis.
You ‘know’ too much for your own good, yet I know better than to exchange with you.
You may be highly intellectual, intelligence I’m not sure. The know in quotes above connotes exactly that. You’d better read your ‘Krish’ again.
Ends.
There’s not much clarity with you, Villager.
All a bit occult and mysterious.
‘Erbie scratches his head and asks me:
“When you said “that simple” above, what were you referring to?
A concept or something, or what.”
___________________
Surely you should know yourself?
After all, it was you who said “It’s that simple” at the end of your post at 17h05 🙂
(Are you losing it after the kicking Fred gave you?)
Oh I see.
You think I should have just presented the conclusion without a supporting argument.
I think it’s always best to show one’s workings out, allowing others to question one’s reasoning and so on.
That’s the honest way to do it.
Craig, I listened to yesterdays statement on the world service in France and it was heart rendering to hear that these men received the absolution from the courts.
That they could not be prosecuted DOES NOT SAY THEY ARE NOT GUILTY, it is just an indication how weak and feeble the judiciary has become and how the state is disintegrating, dancing to the right wing tunes of a thoroughly crooked establishment and using its security powers to safeguard scoundrels.
I’m keeping hold of my Euro’s because on June the 23rd. the pound will nose dive something rotten.
“I’m keeping hold of my Euro’s because on June the 23rd. the pound will nose dive something rotten.”
Said with glee. The pound will recover from any temporary uncertainty and Europe will continue to trade with its largest export market.
But a time will come when you will be wiping your arse with your worthless Euros as the whole project falls apart.
Orlando – as the implosion in the great satan gathers pace the EU/Japan are not independent enough of its warmongering ways to give the world a soft landing upon its imminent demise. Where is European leadership, we only have offshore tax dodgers and khazari pension thieves leading us?
David Cameron’s government may be planning to allow Turks access, en masse to the UK after the June 23rd EU vote.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36510009
He ‘may be’ planning to invest in terror groups fighting for decades and financing their arms purchases with drugs. Families that come here, just as individuals might all have been leaned on by these armed groups.
But the EU is certainly not allowing Turks unfettered access, as Turkey has clearly not come up with any of the points that would clinch such a deal. This is the BBC at its worst.
Turkey should not be allowed to join the EU until it has signed a comprehensive autonomy deal, or peace deal with the Kurdish parties.
It’s all on the Sunday Times’ front page. Leaked details of access for one million Turks but it’s being kept secret until after June 23rd.
Just part of what the EU has in store for us after a Remain vote. Just don’t expect the status quo.
Anon1.
I’m inclined to agree with you on this particular occasion.
Agree. Watch out for membership of the euro returning to the agenda.
I don’t see the point of getting panicked about tourist admission for three months. Everybody has that in a great many countries.
All the Turks who want to be in Europe for work reasons are there already 🙂
Habb.
In response to Habbs, well eccentric ditties that he posted yesterday.
I thought I’d return the compliment with this little number.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLwiccIOxI
Of course Habb is, shall we say desperate to moderate this blog, a feat he’ll never come close to achieving.
Mods, I’m sure you’ll find this little number quite entertaining, and some what relevant to your situation. ?
Habb however after watching it, may release the gravity of his futile task.
Re my above comment.
At 27 seconds in, you’ll see our Jim at the keyboard. ?
I’ve been away from the blog awhile, but has anyone else observed that you’re getting a bit infantile ROS? Second childhood, perhaps?
Alycone.
You’re right you’ve been away for a while. ?
RoS always posts a lot when he’s bored and looking for a bit of fun.
Turkey hosts UK government recruitment to Al Qaida
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/03/how-britain-funds-the-propaganda-war-against-isis-in-syria
The trolls looking for their picnic sandwiches which appear to have vanished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leU1kbtIZUI&list=PLEOT0ddFGuQ6wltxXzQlfDlwJoH0D755a
Hum along, you’ll soon feel better.
Is this song about you, my little pet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB2E6RX7W44
No, but I note that another of his songs is entitled “Crazy as a loon” – which I take to be dedicated to your pal Loony.
He also sang one about a “Picture Show” which might explain your floreat Etona! What is this new obsession with Eton?
What’s happened to ‘Flush Trolls Down the Khazi’?
Homeless People Brutalised By Police;
http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/the-philosophy-of-recovery/
Despite awareness of such crimes, Jeff was more scared of the police than the public. According to him, the City of London is generally empty at night because the City of London police immediately move on any homeless people they find. Even if the speculators who operate in this neighbourhood are part of a system that facilitates the production of so much poverty in the world, their own streets should be kept clean. The gatekeepers admit no beggars.
Part of Rabbi Michael Learner’s speech at Muhammad Ali’s funeral.
“One of the reasons that we .. have called upon the United States to stand up to the part of the Israeli government that is oppressing Palestinians [applause] is that we as Jews understand that our commitment is to recognize that God has created everyone in God’s image and that everyone is equally precious and that means the Palestinian people as well as all other people on the Planet”
“And Lerner then offered many other moral lessons in his speech, including denunciation of drone warfare and the Vietnam War and rapacious bankers and cruel, racist sentencing practices for black offenders; but notice that these moral lessons would be completely — empty if not for the first one he offered: about the equality of Muslims and Palestinians.”
I must admit, I was rather impressed by Mr Learner’s forthright, and balanced opinions.
You can watch the whole speech here:
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/standing-palestinians-netanyahu/
Very unlike you to be impressed by any forthright and balanced opinions, RoS, I thought you went for the weasely, unbalanced ones. :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4
Sing along my little pet!
“I thought”
Says Habb.
You haven’t been doing much thinking of late have you?
I mean what on earth possessed you to think, that you could become a mod, on Craig’s magnificent blog?
For someone so certain it could never happen, RoS, you do seem to be obsessing about the idea . Does it worry you so much? Perhaps because you know most of your junk would disappear? 🙂
“For someone so certain it could never happen”
__________
Habb.
The Andromeda galaxy will coalesce with the Milkyway galaxy, before you become moderator of Craig’s stupendous blog.
And you know it. ?
Oh, don’t feel bad, Craig, as it often happens today in our covert governed world.
I was hounded out of academe for just trying to determine who was behind America’s conspiracies which killed its leaders during the 1960s.
Fortunately, I speeded it up by forcing my early retirement before it ruined my health.
It was the smartest thing I ever did.
And you could have been poopa-scooped up by academe if you had shilled for George Bush like Phillippe Sands.
Turkey turns up the heat on those who recognise the Armenian genocide, and David Cameron wants to allow, unfettered Turkish access to Britian.
“The Foreign Office is internal to the assessment that the Turkish-born German MPs should not travel to Turkey in the near future. For their safety could not be guaranteed.”
“After the eleven politicians of CDU, SPD, Greens and the Left is not against the voted Armenian resolution , them Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had accused her blood was “spoiled”.
“It is unspeakably knowing first time no longer be able to fly there now,” said the Integration Commissioner Aydan Özoguz (SPD). “Erdogan needs to understand that we are not an extension of Turkey.”
“Other ethnic Turkish Bundestag have canceled business trips to Ankara or their summer holiday on the Bosporus to SPIEGEL information. A deputy saw to it that his parents left the house of the family in Turkey and in a hotel sought refuge in another city.”
http://m.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/a-1096912.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
They better tell that Turk Johnson not to fly to his ancestral about either, mind he has other eggs to fry.
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/photo-gallery-the-brexiters-fotostrecke-137522-2.html
“David Cameron wants to allow, unfettered Turkish access to Britian.”
Really? That’s not what the Times claims.
I have noticed you use commas in the same eccentric manner as Republicofscotland, Laguerre.
“That’s not what the Times claims”
___________
Laguerre.
I never intimated that it did, but then again, who’d trust Theresa May, after the border control fiasco, that she presided over several years back.
I for one certainly don’t.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15632423
Alan/Legal Aid
You really are an obsessive, aren’t you, but perhaps you’re just having fun posting the latest. Either way, take care! 🙂
Either way, take care!
Oh I’m so scared!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cen1SvpTsYk
And this is for you and all the other WAR-PIGS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ssDXiMLX9o
CAPITAL LETTERS, ooooooooh so SCARY!
“Alan aka “Legal Aid”, I’ve gone all weak at the knees!
Bring the smelling salts, Jim!
all 1000 of them
Ha ha! God, I’ve just been reading the latest updates out to my mate, and recounting some of the past couple of weeks’ back and forth. And then realised I’m a man in my ’50s! God, we must be so tragically bored. ? Hilarious, harmless stuff I suppose, how did I end up here? It’s all my friend Rob’s fault, with his insane geopolitical obsessions, endlessly sending me links to bloody ‘global research’ and ‘the Saker’ and the infamous ‘Moon of Alabama’. Madness!
Your mate must be incredibly patient – I wouldn’t have the nerve to trot out this drivel to anyone, less still admit I’d been a significant part of the dialogue.
You might not want my advice (few do), but I’d suggest avoiding dubious sources like “global research”, never mind the others. There are more sites filled with half-truths and lies than one could shake a stick at, before we even get starting on battling youtube-wars.
I can find research material in aplenty myself. If someone wants to make an argument, great – but don’t expect a 2-hour video viewing requirement on my part to be a component of someone else’s point.
I wasn’t referencing ‘global research’ as reputable source of anything Glen, precisely the opposite. I was making a harmless and jocular post about how such drivel (foisted on me by an obsessed friend) had led me to the madness of this site! Most of my links I think have been to musical stuff like Neil Young or Richard and Linda Thompson just for light relief from the dribble and bile, or to make a joking jibe at liars like Bevin. No harm done ?
Slight misunderstanding – I know you weren’t endorsing GR, rather, I was making the general point that any reference to dubious sources are such a waste of time that they’re not worth looking at. Anyone using them to make a point really ought to try again.
In addition, I find it lazy and presumptuous when a poster expect someone to view a 2-hour youtube video and argue against that. As a bit of supporting evidence, or direct proof, fair enough – but I’ve really had my share of “Watch this lengthy video, it disproves the theory of gravity/ global warming/ vaccinations” by way of counter-argument by a poster.
dead language, dead people
Oh, and Habba, in case you have forgotten, as you so obviously have, it was yourself, on June 10, 2016 at 18:01, who was attempting to stalk me. You started this, now stop your whining if you find I do it better than you, and dry your little eyes.
Actually “Alan”, I was just trying to make sense of your idiotic comment “all coppers are bastards”.
But yo don’t need to fear I’ll ask you to clarify for a third time, it’s pretty clear what you’re about.
LOL
It’s an old Victorian ditty which, I believe, began in the Music Hall:
I’ll sing you a song
And its not very long
All Coppers is Bastards.
It is loosely based upon the experiences of costermongers and other east enders who felt that they were persecuted by the new Metropolitan Police Force. They were probably right too.
For further detail see Mayhew or, for a brief summary see Gertrude Himmelfarb’s The Idea of Poverty.
Ms Himmelfarb is the wife of Irving Kristol and the mother of Bill, the notorious warmonger.
Alan, felicitations and sympathies: pay no attention to the troll. If he doesn’t insult you, you are not thinking straight.
Moscow Radio is on air again, I’m happy to see.
Habbaab says “Actually “Alan, I was just trying to make sense of your idiotic comment “all coppers are bastards”.
It’s straightforward English. It means their mummies and daddies weren’t married. Is that simple enough terms for you. From now on I’ll type more slowly so you can keep up.
In French society it is very rare to see someone staggering around in the street blind drunk; and the French are mega piss artists.
In the UK, on the otherhand, Friday and Saturday nights are like a war zone, even in the smallest of towns; yet we’re told that the agro in France is being provoked by Russian football fans.
Blue Pill or Red Pill…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4
Russian provocation is how it was reported on RT.
So there’s no such thing as English football hooligans, all pumped-up by militarism and propaganda, which is the job of trolls on boards like this (I’m not saying you’re a troll). The scum/vermin know who they are.
Betrayus is credited with thinking up the idea of using Al Qaida to colonise Libya and Syria. Or was that from Bilderberg like Gordon Brown’s re-capitalisation of the banks with our money?
Too early to know the motivation of Mateen. But I think it’s safe to assume the 50 dead will be a monument to islamic male insecurity about their own sexuality. I remember a movie from the sixties called The Sergeant with Rod Steiger. He plays a tough platoon sergeant who is in deep denial about his attraction to one of his charges. The anger rising from such denial many times projects into violence against those who threaten to tempt you to abandon your macho-macho persona for a lighter version. This is what I see with hysterical outbursts from those who appear to ‘protest too much’ as they confront their own homosexual tendencies in the guise of others. I feel certain Mateen was typical of males raised in a culture of sexual denial, despite his being US based for some years.
What about God-denial? I find God-deniers are often extremely upset at being reminded of our intuitive knowledge of God.
Apparently, he was from Afghanistan.
His parents were, I believe.
Not that there has ever been the slightest doubt, since the 1970s when the US started employing wahhabi militias in Afghanistan to combat secularist and socialist governments, that massacres “there” would lead inevitably to massacres “here.”
The US government knew it and incorporated it into their long term plans.
Right, I was wondering how you would try and turn this around.
So because the Americans supported armed resistance against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s (a brutal, imperialist war I might add), it follows that an American of Afghan descent murdering 50 people in a gay bar in Florida in 2016 is the fault of the US? A
How did you get yourself into this state, Bevin? Are you so totally brainwashed with communist dogma that you have lost all sense of reality? Do you even believe the drivel you post on here?
And of course the good old Soviet Union was just invited in, like in Prague and Budapest? Secularist and socialist government my arse.
:@Resident Dumbo, Isn’t Women’s Rights one of the phony excuses that you have used before as justification for invading Afghanistan ?
http://i.imgur.com/1wFr7NX.jpg
https://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/00-kabul-then-and-now-01-220715.jpg
No it wasn’t. Why are you incapable of offering any criticism whatsoever of the Soviet or Putin regimes???
A little more is known now about his origins. Born in US to Afghani parents in NY? So more home-grown terror, to be sure. Tsarnev reminds.
No one seems to want to delve into the nuts and bolts of culture clash. This is clearly a culture which has a predominant affection for the old days. Those acculturated into the world at large feel a tug from their ancestors; muscle-memory or something. Then comes the guilt about having left the holy way.
How can I atone? Hmmm. Jihad has a clear path to redemption for me. Just allow me to extiguish thee times three and me. No problem. Ez Pz. Now if we could have a million-muslim march for Gay Pride, we could maybe get somewhere.
“Gain be my lord, so I will worship thee.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLBE91VUF34enEb6tgm8OeB0AzONRETs90&v=FN_pBKhftkg
Taliban ‘skins man alive’ in Afghanistan as war takes increasingly brutal turn
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/taliban-skins-man-alive-in-afghanistan-as-war-takes-increasingly-brutal-turn-a7077686.html
God, the whole article is infinitely depressing. Killing Mansour hasn’t helped anything, the new guy sounds like a ruthless bastard.
Dim Jim is back !
Found any of those homophobic or anti-Semitic comments of mine yet ? 😀
Still not yet clarified your views on BDS & Apartheid Israel either ! 😀
Meanwhile can you confirm my suspicion that “Christian” is actually you here ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8vDzAMC_U
Can you believe that Obama is so exhausted by massacres in America, like the one last night in Orlando, that he offered no proposals, like catching and punishing those who spew violent hatred against the public, urge counter terrorists to do more to identify terrorism in progress and stop it, order psychology tests and incarceration for gun owners who threaten to use them, get Congress to ban assault weapons and take them away from gun owners who possess them, etc!
The POTUS seems afraid of angering the NRA and its supporters, especially The Donald, with the upcoming presidential election approaching .
Taliban leader Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Mansour was killed in an airstrike Saturday in Pakistan, the White House confirmed Monday.
A U.S. official said the drone strike occurred around 6 a.m. ET Saturday in a remote area of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, southwest of the town of Ahmad Wal.
President Barack Obama said during his visit to Vietnam that the death of Mansour marks an “important milestone in our longstanding effort to bring peace and prosperity to Afghanistan.”
The President, who also confirmed Mansour’s death, added that it does not mark a “shift in our approach,” stressing that the United States is not reentering the day-to-day combat operations.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/21/politics/u-s-conducted-airstrike-against-taliban-leader-mullah-mansour/
Orlando shootings:
We know enough to say this was an act of terror and an act of hate.
Obama said he had just finished a briefing with FBI Director James Comey and his advisers. The President said authorities have reached no definitive conclusions on the motivations of the killer. The President said it is not clear how a terrorist group inspired the shooting. The shooter was a “person filled with hatred,” he said.
Mansour was killed, together with a taxi driver, about three weeks ago.
I fail to see the point that you are making in this post.
AFGHANISTAN
It takes one to know one.
About half of the 90 massacrers in the USA since 1982 have been committed by crazed white loonies.
Until they are identified and stopped, the majority of them will just continue.
Whose responsibility is it that 50 people are dead, another 53 injured, and 50 or more families are grieving today?
Omar Mateen – if he was the person who carried out the shooting – is presumably a person with free will, capable of making the decision to go through with this – or not to go through with it. He could have gone home and watched TV or read some improving book. Instead, he chose to go and deliberately murder dozens of other human beings. What proportion of the responsibility does he bear?
I would never have though that a psychotherapist could be so simplistic. I always though they convoluted things! 😉
Alcyone.
Well I suppose your case would be the exception, I pity the poor psychotherapist, who tried to unravel your Daedalian mind. ?
Pity JSD if you want, as proxy. That’s as much attention you’re going to get from me tonight Pube-dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Perpetrator
This says he was born in New York to AFGHANI parents
@Fred
Your argument is flawed
Lots of Welsh nationalists among the Welsh fans yesterday. There was no violence and we had a great result.
Pity they shot him,
now he will not be able to say what was his motive?
So, we see now at what level you look for your empirical evidence about human nature. You are certainly not at any risk of salvation, are you?
Your logic is flawed.
Are you claiming nationalism wasn’t the underlying reason for the violence in France last night?
Keep it up, Fred. Keep them straight.
“Keep it up, Fred. Keep them straight.”
_____________
Where’s our Jim when you need him, I’m sure he’ll have something to say about Alcyones, rather homophobic comment above.
You’re as twisted as a jalebi Scotty boy.
Where’s Suhayl btw? He might be able to help you PubeOfScotland. LOL
Fred: Are you claiming nationalism wasn’t the underlying reason for the violence in France last night?
Are you claiming nationalism is the underlying reason for violence between Millwall and Leeds supporters?
As long as the US takes a most non-intrusive stance to people having all kinds of guns in the name of Second Amendment rights, terrorists, foreign and domestic, will be able to wreck havoc in the USA.
Trowbridge H.Ford
On the other side of that coin, you’d have a disarmed American public, open to abuse from all manner of government agencies.
And although it seems that this quote:
“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass”
Is a misquote, wrongly attributed to Japanese fleet admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Nonetheless, it carries a substantial amount of veracity in my opinion.
This is the 21st century, not the 19th, and modern warfare has little use for rifles.
The USA has to worry about space, underwater and cyber warfare, not human invasions.
Trowbridge.
What about militrarised US police forces, who regularly kill unjustly, what sort of future would lay in wait for the American public if they were disarmed.
In my opinion the NRA, in part hold the American authorities, at bay to a certain extent, with regards to draconian measures on liberty, and freedom of speech.
Responding to Habakkuk’s Comment, on June 12 17:35 – Habakkuk says “FINE – I SHALL AMEND MY POST”.
A reasonable person would have thought that an apology from Habakkuk for his libel was appropriate, but that is not how paid trolls work. What Habakkuk is amending is a very serious defamatory lie that he had previously stated about me, and that I challenged him on
.
Rather than reiterate, for ease of review I am repeating my earlier comment here:
FLUSH OUT LIES – June 12 @ 16:52 I had commented:
Responding to Habakkuk’s untruthful comment – “Thus, in the case of Roderick Russell, the starting point appears to be that his troubles started after he was sacked”
Let me be crystal clear on this: I WAS NOT SACKED AS HABAKKUK HAS SO UNTRUTHFULLY STATED, I RESIGNED AND FURTHERMORE WAS TWICE ASKED TO WITHDRAW MY RESIGNATION DURING MY LONG NOTICE PERIOD. Indeed I have written references from the company that confirm the truth as I have stated it above.
Yes, I gathered that this untruthful rumor that I was sacked was being deliberately circulated at one time and though I don’t know why the threats AND intimidation started up, the most likely reason was in my opinion to terrorize me into silence so that this lying rumour could circulate freely behind my back, and I would be too scared to contradict it
As for Habakkuk’s “clinical obsessiveness” comments, these are the tactics of a troll and are sometimes referred to as cyber harassment or cyber bullying.
HABAKKUK IS A LIAR as well as a troll. If Habakkuk wishes to stand by his statement that I was sacked, then he should indicate its source and contact details. It is completely untrue and Habakkuk has been lied to by those who have put him up to this. (He has now withdrawn his lie, but without apology)
—————-
NOW IN ANSWER TO HABAKKUK’S OTHER QUESTION – WHY DID I LEAVE GROSVENOR?
I take it that the company he is referring to in his comment of June 12 17:35 was the Vancouver-based “Grosvenor International Holdings” that is owned by the Duke of Westminster and where I had been Group Controller.
I chose to leave because I felt that the opportunities for future advancement would be slow (basically waiting for my boss’s retirement in the distant future) and, having just prepared Grosvenor’s worldwide Strategic Plan, I felt that the company’s future prospects for growth would be less than they had been in the past.
Consequently, given the excellent track record of achievement that I had had with Grosvenor and with other companies before, I felt that it was a good time to look elsewhere for future money / promotion prospects, etc.
Because I had been told about Grosvenor’s relationship with the Spy/Intelligence Agencies, I knew that my search couldn’t be done in secret and chose to tell the company upfront. Given my record of achievement, I really expected to be spoilt for choice as I had been in the past – In fact I was blacklisted and never worked permanently in Canada again.
Thank you Roderick, for exposing Habb, as a egotistical prevaricator, he should do the honourable thing, (if he has any honour) and apologise to you immediately.
I wish you well in your career.
The Habba-Clown Troll’s tolerated presence here is a blight for the reputation of this blog & a disregarding mockery for all the decent & serious commentators who contribute here in good faith; the only commentators that like his presence here, are other trolls, whom can literally be counted on less than the fingers of one hand.
Macky so you still have the bit between your teeth?
Habby is not just tolerated, he is welcomed, here.
You are such a tit of a L.O.S.E.R.
@Alcyone / Villager Idiot,
If there is one thing worse than an odious troll, it’s feeble-minded pathetic inadequates like yourself who actually look up to such creeps, as opposite to looking down on them like the rest of us do,
I clearly stated that most other Commentators obviously dislike the fact that this disgusting troll is tolerated here by Craig;
Which part of STOP bitching don’y you comprehend?
“STOP bitching” says the Habba_Clown Troll’s own little Bitch ! 😀
Perhaps I can ask which commenters here of any political perspective actually like Macky? I suspect most of those who you think actually support you find you something of an embarrassment. But lets see.
Habba is five star GCHQ, total criminals and the kind of mind-bent lunatics who want to launch all of us into WW3.
But don’t worry, the likes of Habba will be held to account.
So you were blacklisted simply because you left the company – have I got that right?
And you’ve previously told us you’ve been hounded from pillar to post – was that also just because you left the company?
Let’s assume for a moment that you’re not a simple obsessive : what would you say your former company was hoping to achieve by blacklisting and hounding you? What was their objective?
You are always right on cue.
Sorry RobG, he gets out of his box by the back door and tries to hump the postman’s leg. The vet suggested neutering him, and it looks like the best solution.
Habba, back in your box now!!!
What’s this my little poodle? Did I give you permission to leave your box by the back door and harass people? You have no right to assume anything, so get back where you belong and stop your noise.
‘Alan’, can you not find a better store to air your and your sock-puppet’s sense of humour?
Alcyone, I would have sworn this blog was the property of Craig Murray. Are you a regularly appointed mod, or what?
The topic of this thread is Craig’s treatment by the authorities, and as you are such a defender of what’s right, that’s what you should be talking about, also. Instead, your main subject today has been who you think are trolls and who is not. There are far too many of you control-freak types in the world today, so why don’t you just butt out?
Pretty feeble, ‘Alan’-come-lately. You are better off talking to yourself.
Habba
Even small corporations have to blacklist rebels, sorry independent-minded people.
How else are they supposed to justify paying spy firms to check on their employees’ private time, private computers, to see if they are engaged in independent thought.
If that can happen in a pea-sized company employing less than 20 people, what do you think can happen in a very large company employing 100s and 1000s of hard workers, some of whom are not corporate clones like you? The corporate machine detects rebellion, sorry independent thought; like daleks it goes into melt-down exterminate exterminate until the shrill of its panic triggers something like a prison shut=down on the rogue, sorry, independent minded employee.
You are lucky enough to be regularly brain-washed by the GCHQ corporation to keep your thoughts on track.. Obama is completely dual-brained. We only see the ro-bot. You have been slooped up by first academe and then SIS as a highly controllable ro-bot. Remember Lord Janner and the waterboarding you got for supporting paedophilia? No , probably not. Oh well, that’s Lithe.
Hab is a pathological liar? Alert the Media….
No Ben, the pathology is chemical and the lie is corporate UK terror state.
Will be interesting to see how the progressive left handle this. Usually Muslim trumps gay, hence the near-total silence from gay rights activists and feminists on the issue of Islamic attitudes towards homosexuals and women (with the notable exceptional of Peter Tatchell and a few others who aren’t hypocrites).
This one is more challenging for the left, but the default position of “This has nothing to do with Islam” is likely to be adhered to once again as gays and women are dropped in favour of multiculturalism.
It’s a bit of a coincidence about how you’re feeding in to the latest gun massacre in America.
GCHQ are a complete joke, and you are all total criminals. You are vermin; you are scum; and you are all going to be brought to justice.
Make no mistake about that.
Any ketchup in Orlando, Rob?
What has ketchup to do with Craig’s treatment at the hands of the authorities, Troll? Ketchup is so off-topic.
As a perfect illustration of this, Owen Jones has just stomped out of Sky News because he couldn’t get away with describing the Orlando shooter as a “homophobic terrorist”.
Islamic terrorist, Owen, you thick twat! They’d throw you off a building and still you won’t stay it.
Islam trumps gay, every time. Even if you are not Muslim and gay, ffs. Is there any limit to the delusion of the left?
Owen Jones is a shill, all part of the biggest propaganda machine in history.
Anon 1:
Your description of his flouncing and his reasons for doing so don’t tally with your version of events. :
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disgusted-owen-jones-walks-out-8177606?clearcache=1
Peter Tatchell’s take on the Sky news treatment of the issue and Owen Jones’ response :
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/owen-jones-right-sky-news-8178356
Anon, I can say quite readily that I am not excited about the Islamisation of Europe, but I do believe that had The Two Bees, Bush and Blair, stayed at home, the World would’ve been a better place.
Either way, guys we are a Type Zero Global Civilisation.
Troll, the topic of this thread is Craig’s treatment by the authorities, not for you to be spouting hate about “Islamification”. It’s bloody Jehovah’s Wilessses who come round trying to convert me all the time. I’ve never had that from a Muslim.
Do sstop your trolling!
Are your hands shaking with excitement, cos I gave you some attention, or is it just the time of night when the wankers come out?
Neither! I have Parkinson’s Disease!
Well, you’re in the wrong place then. It used to be fashionable here to talk about personal health, till Mary moved on . Now all that’s passe.
I might however recommend early nights.
Gawd, the trolls are going into overdrive.
I repeat, all you vermin are going to be brought to justice.
We could of course discuss the security state…
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/10/16/cia-owns-everyone-significance-major-media/
http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/snoopers-charter-means-nothing-state-surveillance-will-escalate/
… but I’m afraid they’re all too insane. The only thing we can do is put them down as the mad dogs they are.
I’m afraid I agree with Habby about Paul Craig Roberts. The guy worked for Ronnie Raygun, then Alex Jones, and now he’s on Sputnik. He’s just a conspiracy nut!
Are you trying to redeem yourself ‘Alan’.
No! Paul Craig Roberts worked for Ronnie Raygun. Remember the Iran-Contra scandal? Remember Ferdinand Marcos? Both were sanctioned by Raygun.
Now PCR pretends to be left wing. I just don’t buy it.
“Now PCR pretends to be left wing. I just don’t buy it.”
He does not.
He’s a Conservative. As Reagan wanted to be before the bankers got their grips on him. Thatcher was in a similar position.
You are, perhaps, barking.
Or maybe he learned from his time in government and working for the Wall Street Journal how Washington and capitalism really work.
Absolute psychos, all on tax payer’s money.
Robbie, when did you last pay your taxes?
Why the feck should I pay taxes to a totally corrupt war machine..? and particularly a war machine that throws the weak and frail on the garbage heap?
Go ‘clean for the Queen’ you sniveling, immoral, subservient piece of garbage.
I’m not joking when I say that we’re coming for you lot.
Oh well, the twats in Cheltenham will have something else to get really, really paranoid about.
You are all total, fecking loons. You need to be removed from society.
It’s always fun having a dialogue with the security state…
Here’s how it works…
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/