My Metropolitan Police Evidence on Torture and Extraordinary Rendition 1137

This is a transcript of the evidence I gave, at their request, to the Metropolitan Police. I published scans of the witness statements yesterday, and a commenter has kindly transcribed them to make them web searchable. I was interviewed by the Police both at my home and at their headquarters, and it was made very plain to me that not only Sir Mark Allen, but Tony Blair, Jack Straw and numerous officials in the FCO and the Security Services were in the frame. I confess I therefore always expected the Establishment would have the case dropped despite overwhelming evidence.

I first offered this evidence to the Gibson Inquiry, I was treated by that Inquiry as an important witness and Judge Gibson ordered the FCO to give me full access to all documents I saw while Ambassador, to refresh my memory. No. 10 panicked at this and other evidence that Gibson was doing a genuine job, and the Gibson Inquiry was closed down by Cameron with the active complicity of Nick Clegg. I was then told by the Gibson secretariat that the Metropolitan Police were taking over aspects of that inquiry. I was then contacted and interviewed by the Metropolitan Police and gave this evidence.

The Director of Public Prosecutions having corruptly closed down the criminal case, the matter is now purportedly under investigation by the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament – consisting entirely of “trusties” of the security services. They have continually and repeatedly refused requests by me to give evidence. I last heard from them on 15 December 2015, a simple acknowledgement of a receipt of a communication.

As nobody can claim my evidence is untrue due to the amount of documentary report, the Establishment simply ensures it does not get heard by any inquiry or court. When the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee had hearings into extraordinary rendition, they directly asked seven different witnesses – including Jack Straw – whether I was telling the truth, but they refused to call me as a witness or to accept written evidence from me.

CI Act 1967. 3.9: MC Act I980. ss.5A(3)(a) and SB; Criminal Procedure Rules 2005. Rule 27.1
Age if under 18 Over 18 (if over I3 insert ‘over 18’) Occupation: Development Consultant

This statement (consisting of pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything in it which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true.

I joined the Foreign Office in 1984 direct from University in the ‘fast stream‘ process. I held a number of posts including second secretary in Lagos, then Head of the Maritime section in London and the Cyprus section. Around 1992-l993 I was also head of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) embargo surveillance section both before and after the first Gulf War. Its role was to monitor Iraqi attempts of weapons procurement. I then served in Poland as first secretary in the Embassy and returned to London as deputy Head of the Africa Department, and thereafter in Ghana as Deputy High Commissioner. I was security cleared to Developed Vetted level and because of my earlier work in relation to Iraqi arms embargo l was given extra security clearances enabling me to view other sensitive intelligence material up to including various extra codewords over and above Top Secret. I have never worked for either the Security Service (SYS) or Secret Intelligence Service (SIS). I speak both Polish and Russian.

In August 2002 I took up the role as Ambassador, at the Embassy in Uzbekistan. I was given very little formal pre posting briefing by the FCO and met the outgoing ambassador Chris INGRAM only for about half an hour during which we only discussed a staff issue regarding an embassy member called Chris HIRST. Ihe staff at the Uzbekistan Embassy included a Defence Attache, an assistant, a Deputy Head of Mission, a third secretary, a management officer, consular ofiicer and assistant. My number two was an acting second secretary called Karen MORAN. I didn’t have many staff or much ability to discuss matters with them.

After my arrival in Uzbekistan as part of my role I viewed certain intelligence material originating from Uzbekistan. This material came to me from SIS in London and was sent to them by the CIA via the CIA Headquarters in Washington. It was sent to me if SIS thought it appropriate information I should be aware of. The only person security cleared to see such telegrams were I and Karen MORAN in her role as Deputy Head of Mission (DHM).

I was aware even before I arrived in Uzbekistan that the Uzbekistan security services had a terrible reputation for torture that included for example using boiling water on individuals as well as electrocution. I never whilst in Uzbekistan ever had direct involvement with the Uzbekistan security services, SIS officers came out on liaison visits but I don’t recall who they were or who they met.

Page 2 of 5

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

In my new role I was proactive in meeting local Uzbekistan people and I had only been there a couple of weeks when I attended a trial of dissidents accused of terrorism. More than one witness tried to change their original account claiming it was made under torture. I found them credible that they were tortured to give a false account. The United Nations special rapporteur on torture came out to Uzbekistan to do a special report and we arranged for torture victims to see him.

The intelligence that was sent to me by SIS at this time concerned me on two grounds; firstly it showed how systematic the torture was by the Uzbekistan security services as the intelligence was coming from tortured detainees. And secondly the quality of the intelligence was inaccurate. I knew these from my first hand experience in Uzbekistan and I knew individual facts could be shown to be false.

I came to these conclusions after about three to four months of being in Uzbekistan. This was due to the fact I had been doing some work around tortured Uzbekistan detainees and I could see links with the intelligence I was seeing. Most of the intelligence didn’t name the detainees but it had similar trends such as Al Qaeda (AQ) membership or attending AQ training camps which wasn’t true. I was aware that my defence attache Colonel RIDOUT had been to one training camp location that was cited in the intelligence reports and found they did not exist. I knew that Uzbekistan was getting money and arms from the United States and I believed the Uzbekistan government were exaggerating the AQ threat in response. I believe this was a view shared by colleagues in the Embassy.

My concerns revolved around the intelligence and the cooperation between the Uzbekistan security services and CIA. I was uneasy about what the US were not doing to stop the torture. I decided something was going wrong and London (the FCO) must have not known about the torture. I asked Karen MORAN who had regular meetings with the US mission in Uzbekistan to ask the US about the intelligence flow from torture and to confirm from the US mission that it in fact was not from torture. Karen told me that the US response she received was that the intelligence was from torture however it was justified in the ‘war on terror‘. This response was possibly from the US Mission political counsellor.

On about 17th December 2002 I wrote a telegram back to London setting out my concerns. I have obtained a redacted version of that telegram under a Freedom of lnformation request I made I produce a copy of which as CJM/l telegram number I47 of I7/I2/2002 at 0345. It was addressed to the permanent under secretary (PUS) Sir Michael JAY as he was the head of the Diplomatic Service and Michel WOOD the Foreign Office legal advisor as it dealt with legal issues. I also sent it to relevant UK Missions (UKMIS) who had interest/deal in torture policy, these included New York, Geneva, Vienna and ‘Organisation Security and Cooperation in Europe‘ (OSCE) of which Uzbekistan is a member. lf you send a telegram on policy it is practice that it is also sent to other UK Missions who have an interest as with this telegram.

I don‘t know how I received a response but I got a message back stating that I could discuss the matters with William ERHMAN during an Ambassadors conference that l was due to attend in London in January 2003. I believe this message originated from Sir Michael JAY and I believe it is back referenced as telegram 323 of 2002 which appears on the next telegram I sent.

In January 2003 I returned as planned to London for a few days and could not get hold of William ERHMAN so the conversation I intended never took place with him. I subsequently returned to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and it was around this time I was aware public concern had just started regarding detainee issues in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. I seemed to be the only person within the FCO who was worried about it. I had never done this before by that I mean flagged up these kinds of issues/concerns.

Page 3 of 5

Continuation of Statemait of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

On 22nd January 2003 I sent another telegram this was addressed to William ERHMAN again I produce a redacted copy that was supplied to me under a Freedom Of Information request I made as exhibit CJM/2 on it there is the back reference 323 which I believe was the response originating from Michael JAY that I previously referred to. ‘The telegram essentially states the same as my first. I did not receive a response to any of the points: this is unheard of because if an Ambassador writes a telegram in relation to a policy matter there is always response. I was frustrated and could not understand why there was no written reply on this policy on torture.

Shortly after this I was asked back to London to discuss the issues I had raised. I can’t recall what method this summons was communicated to me. I believed I was coming back to London to see Sir Michael JAY however I never did see him.

I thought I was in trouble due to the nature of the recall to London and I suspected I was going to be sacked. I returned to London on 6th March 2003 I don‘t recall what dictated the timing but it was two weeks before the war started in Iraq. At that time, with the ‘dodgy dossier‘ going around supporting the war and my concerns regarding the inaccurate intelligence I had seen, the atmosphere was not good at the FC0. It was not the best time to be saying openly that our intelligence was not reliable. A retired ambassador had stated that we should not go to war as the intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) was not reliable. From evidence subsequently given in the Chilcott enquiry I believe Sir Michael WOOD had advised Jack STRAW at the time, it was not legal to go to war in Iraq. So all this was going on around my return to London.

I was called into a meeting on the 7″‘ or 8″‘ March 2003 with Linda DUIFFIELD who was the Director Wider Europe (DWE) and my counter signing manager. This meeting took place in her office and she told me Sir Michael JAY wanted to see me but was too busy. With her at the meeting were Michael WOOD and Matthew KIDD who I believe was from MI6 (SIS), he was introduced as being Permanent Under Secretary Department (PUSD) which is a liaison department that deals with SIS. It was a two part meeting with either a private discussion between Linda and myself and then a gmcral discussion with everyone present or the other way around I can’t recall now. She told me that ‘JAY was not pleased I had put things in writing, things like that should not be in writing.‘ In the general meeting with all three she stated Jack Straw had seen my telegrams (CIM/l and CIM/2) and they ‘troubled him and he lost sleep at night over this‘. Also that he had met ‘C’ Sir Richard DEARLOVE and discussed whether, in relation to the ‘war on terror‘ should intelligence from torture be used. Also that Jack Straw made the decision that I should not send over ‘emotional and melodramatic’ telegrams like these and that intelligence and torture were ministerial decisions.

In the general meeting Sir Michael WOOD stated he had looked at the United Nations convention on torture and that it was his legal position that if we didn’t ask someone to be tortured but got intelligence from torture then we were doing nothing illegal.

I asked him about complicity in torture and Article 3 and 4 of the UN Convention on torture. Sir Michael WOOD stated that he didn’t know but Article l6 allowed us to get intelligence from torture but it could not be used in court. Mr KIDD went on to add that intelligence coming from Tashkent was useful to SIS. I told him the intelligence wasn’t true. He disageed with this.

A formal response to my telegrams was read out to me by Linda with everyone present and she told me the response would not be sent as these things were best not put in writing.

Page 4 of S

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

I produce a copy of the minutes of this meeting again supplied to me under a Freedom of lnformation request I made which 1 exhibit as CIMI3. I do not accept the minutes as a full and accurate account of the meeting. it was not sent to me in draft afierwards for ‘signing off‘ which was practice. It also mentions l was given a revised telegram which I was not. I was shown it but not to keep and it was never sent to me.

Afler this meeting I went back to Tashkent. Later in 2005 I obtained a message dated l4/3/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of lnfonnation request I made which I exhibit as CJM/4. This indicates Jack Straw saw the minutes of the meeting referred to in exhibit CIM/3. There were hundreds of meetings at the FCO each day and it would be very rare for minutes to be seen by Jack STRAW unless he had previous documents regarding the matter i.e. my original telegrams and an explanatory briefing from Sir Michael Jay or another oflicial. Simon McDONALD was Jack Straw’s number 2 private secretary and Alan CHARLTON was Head of Personnel.

Whilst in Tashkent l was concerned my career was ruined. I had upset my line managers and I decided I wasn‘t going to say anything else as I was extremely concerned about my future.

I was then told that my third secretary Chris HIRST had attacked a blind person in the street with a baseball bat. I had been told by my predecessor that he had been accused of doing something similar before, but that my predecessor had supported him, this was the staff issue I referred to earlier in this statement. I personally had witnessed his verbally violent outbursts in a local bar before. I knew that as a result of this baseball bat incident that he had to go, which he did. After this I then found papers regarding Chris HIRST that had been hidden from me by his partner Karen MORAN and I learnt she had destroyed other similar documents. As a result of this Karen had to go as well.

At this time I was not receiving any replies from London and asked them why they were ignoring me but got no response.

In June 2003 Colin REYNOLDS from the Foreign Office arrived in Uzbekistan ostensibly to find out what was happening at the Embassy with the sudden departure of Karen and Chris. He had been sent out by Alan CHARLTON. All the Embassy staff was seen by Colin and the staff told me that in fact he was asking them not about Chris & Karen as they expected but things about me such as my drinking habits and whether I used prostitutes. The staff were confused and surprised. I let Colin finish the interviews of staff and then l asked him what was going on as it seemed to me that he was investigating me. He told me not to worry and that he had been instructed to investigate allegations raised about me. He would not tell me what those allegations were. He later as I understand reported back to London that the staff supported me and there were no issues. I obtained a copy of his findings dated 26/6/2003 supplied to me under a Freedom of information request I made which I exhibit as CJM/5. This confirms he reported that all the staff supported me. The report has been ec‘d to amongst others Harvey BOWYER of the FCU. This is the internal audit section called the Financial Compliance Unit (FCU) l did‘t know where this fitted into the investigation by Colin REYNOLDS. However a few months later a team fiom the FCU internal audit came to the embassy to go through all our accounts. All they found at the end of their audit was that I owed about $20 for a lunch for which I lost the receipt, this I repaid. It appeared to me that they were plainly out to get me and I thought I had survived: the only criticism of me was the handling of the HIRST matter.

In July after Colin REYNOLDS left I then went on holiday. London then sent out Dominic SCHROEDER from the FCO political Eastern Department who came and interviewed the same staff as Colin Reynolds again after which he came up with some 18 discipline offences against me.

Page 5 of 5

Continuation of Statement of Craig MURRAY …………………………………………………………………………………….. ..

In August I was called back from holiday in Canada to London to see Howard DRAKE the personnel department director. Present at this meeting were Tessa REDMAYNE of the personnel department and Kate SMITH who was my union representative. At this meeting Howard DRAKE asked me to resign and I declined this is detailed in a report he completed dated 27/8/2003 that was sent to me for ‘clearance’. I produce a copy as exhibit CJM/6. During this meeting l was told that if I forgot about Tashkent that I would be offered another ambassadorship, but I declined this. It was at this meeting that I first became aware of the allegations albeit Colin REYNOLDS had previously told me they were nonsense. The source of the allegations was never disclosed to me.

All the disciplinary allegations were false and around this time my security clearance was up for review. My security clearance reviewer contacted me to state my clearance had been passed by him but it had then been sent back to him and he had been put under pressure not to clear me. He said that he was sticking by his recommendation and my clearance was renewed.

l was suspended for four months and sent back to Tashkent and told not to speak to anyone about the outstanding allegations. l was banned from entering embassy buildings and the stress of it all caused my health to collapse. I suffered severe heart and lung problems as a result.

After four months of investigation l was cleared of all l8 allegations: there was a formal hearing in relation to two matters only. These related to being seen with a ‘hangover’ by a local member of staff in Tashkent and secondly misusing an embassy car, l was cleared on both counts and the evidence against me was shown to be rubbish or non-existent.

l was however found guilty of telling someone about the existence of the allegations when I returned to Tashkent for which I was given a final written warning in January 2004.

Later in June 2004 one of the initial telegrams l had written was somehow leaked to the Financial Times newspaper and the Times printed sections of it. This was not done by me and although I denied it I was suspended as a result and in February 2005 I resigned from the Civil Service. I was given six years early retirement severance pay.

I firmly believe that the allegations against me were knowingly false or grossly exaggerated,. and were concocted against me deliberately to silence me after l was the only senior civil servant to enter a written objection to the policy of collusion in torture. As a consequence my career was destroyed and my health permanently damaged.

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1,137 thoughts on “My Metropolitan Police Evidence on Torture and Extraordinary Rendition

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    • Loony

      No, nothing sinister at all. The Russian media, and members of the Russian government seem quite open in their admiration for their hooligans.

      What are going to do about it? You could go to France and show the Russians that you are just as up for it as they are. Alternatively you can sit at home and contribute to the government mandated outrage at Russian aggression. If you are really lucky it may end up with a nuclear war and we will all be dead.

      That will certainly show the Russians – although along with the rest of humanity you will not be around to see it.

      • michael norton

        Another good reason to Vote Leave, stop people from abroad bring millions of pounds of Cocaine into the British Isles
        Cocaine found on a tug which was stopped in the North Sea was potentially worth more than half a billion pounds, a court has heard.

        Nine men are accused of smuggling 3.2 tonnes of cocaine on the Hamal.

        UK Border Force officers, with Royal Navy support, boarded the tug in an operation about 100 miles east of Aberdeen in April last year.

        An expert told the High Court in Glasgow the “unprecedented” haul had a maximum street value of £512m.

        Det Con Jurgen Wahla, of Police Scotland, was asked by advocate depute Ashley Edwards: “What is the potential maximum street value of the cocaine?”.
        ‘Massive importation’

        Det Con Wahla replied: “If sold in the UK it would be £512m if sold in gram deals and adulterated to 15 to 20 per cent pure.”

        Prosecutor Miss Edwards then said: “Just over half a billion pounds” and Det Con Wahla responded: “That’s correct. It is a massive, massive importation, unprecedented in what I’ve seen in my experience.”

        The jury has heard the Hamal was taken to Aberdeen harbour to be searched.

        Kayacan Dalgakiran, 64, Mustafa Guven, 48, Mustafa Ceviz, 55, Umit Colakel, 39, Ibrahim Dag, 48, Mumin Sahin, 46, Emin Ozmen, 51, Abdulkadir Cirik, 32, and Muhammet Seckin, 27, deny the charges against them.

      • Jim

        Nothing insane about your reply at all. The walls must seem a little ‘bouncy’ in your room, your jacket, how shall I put it? Somewhat capacious?

  • Ben Monad

    Once again, the FBI had Mateen under surveillance, interviewed multiple times. How hard is it to play Pn the Tail on the Donkey? You just ramp a nut up a bit, blindfold him and hand him a gun. No conspiracy….just another mad bomber.

          • Jim

            Putins fascist leanings are of no importance at all? Inane posts about gun control are so veeery important suddenly. Hmmm.

          • Ben Monad

            You sir. I’m sorry to say, are an idiot. This comment thread is open but the Fascist wants to limit the discussion to his own agenda. Go swallow a Flounder whole, Jiggs.

          • Loony

            Hey leave Jim alone. All he wants to do is start as nuclear war by way of fostering hatred and fear based on misinformation.

          • Jim

            You guys are a hoot. Any subject but Vlad and his nice friend. Almost as if you had a fondness for him.

          • Ben Monad

            Jim. I used to play basketball and lead my team for assists.

            Anytime I can be of assistance….just call me.

    • Ben Monad

      Seddique Daddy is an abject liar about his insane offspring. He is chief groomer for his brood. This shit has to stop.

  • Anon1

    Spare a thought for Polly Toynbee, was has just encountered some ordinary Labour supporters for the first time:

    “Inside Labour’s London HQ, I joined young volunteers manning the “Labour In” phones with every fact at the ready. We had sheets of Labour-supporting names to call in Nottinghamshire – and the results were grim. “Out”, “Out” and “Out” in call after call, only a couple for remain. “I’ve been Labour all my life, but I’m for leave,” they said. Why? Always the same – immigrants first; that mythical £350m saving on money sent to Brussels second; “I want my country back” third. And then there is, “I don’t know ANYONE voting in.””

  • Ben Monad

    Like our esteemed guest troll Jim, Seddique is a liar. He is chief groomer of the mad shooter.

    • Loony

      You must not mention gun control – Jim needs all of the guns possible, as he needs to defend himself from Russians. Apparently a Russian nailed his cat to s tree earlier today.

  • Tony M

    With the criminal brutish bastard composite state of ‘Britain’ facing terms of unconditional surrender and almost certain to be pastoralized for several generations, can I make an appeal that the queen/emperor Elizabeth I be allowed to remain as head of state, even if we the people are obliterated in the blink of eye. Even though in law as head of state, such vile mass-murderers as she would almost certainly face war crime trials, and the severest penalty could not be anything other than automatic. Show her clemency I say.

    Save the Windsor One! That is all we ask,

    your ever humble subjects.

    • michael norton

      A police raid in the Paris suburb commune of Magnanville has ended with the death of a hostage taker, who fatally stabbed a police officer near his house and then killed his wife. Reports claim the man was shouting Islamist slogans during the attack.

      RAID special forces raided the premises and shot the stabber dead, Francetv info has reported, citing a French Interior Ministry spokesman. The officers discovered the body of a woman in the house and rescued a 3-year old boy.

      The attacker shouted “Allah Akbar,” Le Parisien cited witnesses as saying.

      Russia Today

  • Habbabkuk (calling a spade a spade)

    Interesting that the European Championship has been visited by neo-fascist thugs from democratic, tolerant Russia whereas there have been no sightings of neo-fascist thugs from fascist, intolerant Kiev, eh?

    I wonder what the Putinistas of this blog have to say about that…

      • Habbabkuk (calling a spade a spade)

        Weak, “Macks”, very weak.

        State-sponsored homophobia in Putin’s Russia, the vehicle: neo-Nazi thugs.

        • Macky

          It seems that Habby_Clown/Dim Jim/Resident Dumbo have signed up for some Pinkwashing;

          Pinkwashing is a rhetorical strategy that deploys Israel’s supposed enlightenment toward LGBTQ issues to deflect criticism from Israel’s human rights abuses and war crimes and to seek to build up support for Israel among Western liberals and progressives.

        • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

          No, “Macks”, I wasn’t thinking of the Putin-Russian version of Mrs Thatcher’s Section 28 (of which you no doubt vociferously disapproved?) but rather of official Russian state’s toleration and encouragement of young and not so young neo-Nazis fascist thugs who go about harrassing, beating and even murdering gays in the streets of Russian citied.

          Hope that clarifies, you Putinista homophobe! 🙂

          • Macky

            Sorry Habba-Clown, you will have to provide some backup for your claims, as you seem to be mixing up Ukraine with Russia iro toleration of Neo-Nazis.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            No, no mixing-up “Macks”, it’s Putin’s Russia we’re talking about.

    • Loony

      It appears that your problems with forming a coherent view of events persists.

      Most of the violence to date, in terms of its longevity and damage to property, has been initiated by the English. It is true that in terms of intensity of violence the Russians would appear to be the chief culprits. Surprisingly the Russians, including the Russian establishment, appear quite proud of their actions.

      As the European Championships are ongoing it is too early to draw any definitive conclusions. However we do know that Europe is suffering from a youth unemployment crisis,and we know that unemployment tends to be correlated with public disorder, We also know that various Russian hooligan groups have been boasting on social media of their intentions for many months.

      Not too much is known about Eufa but the most similar organization to Eufa is FIFA. It is known that FIFA is riddled with corruption. Large swathes of the French workforce are on strike and French industrial protests normally require heavy policing.

      I suppose that some incoherent jibe at Putin neatly diverts attention from youth unemployment, a failure of the intelligence agencies to either gather readily available intelligence (or if they did gather it to act upon it), corruption inside the administrative organizations of major sports, and the ongoing collapse of the French economy.

      In view of your almost obsessional support for the security services perhaps you could offer some form of explanation as to why all intelligence regarding the intentions of Russian “ultra’s” was comprehensively ignored.

      • Jim

        ‘Surprisingly’? Shprygin is a mate of Putin, didn’t you see the photo? This is about way more than football thuggery, which is merely a highly visible expression of a far deeper and more sinister cancer right at the heart of the State. Get it yet?

          • Loony

            Jim – You would appear to display all the traits of an idiot.

            Consider: There has been an outbreak of violence at the European Championships. This violence is above and beyond that normally seen at sporting events. This “extreme violence” has been perpetrated by Russians. Support for this violence is evident in parts of the Russian administration.

            Russia is a country with a long history. It is a culturally and economically sophisticated country. Russia has produced chess players, artists, philosophers, and does produce advanced industrial products often associated with the arms industry and space exploration. It is culturally different from the west.

            Ask yourself why would a country like this be so seemingly content to see the levels of violence seen in France carried out by its nationals? Why would members of the Russian establishment rush to make provocative remarks supporting this violence?

            I do not consider it likely that you can answer these questions, so I will provide a few clues. The answer likely has to do with money, the power of prestige, corruption and the desire to humiliate one or more international bodies.

          • Jim

            You’ve made a partial stab at answering your own question, but those last feeble few lines are not very impressive really are they?
            I don’t think you’re going to find Shprygin and his friends reading Nabokov or Pushkin any time soon Loony, or contemplating the finer points of philosophy and chess. There’s just no getting away from the fact that Putin and his court are up to their necks in fascist ultra-nationalist thuggery. It must be hard for you to swallow, but there you go.

          • Loony

            Whilst you bleat about “fascist ultra nationalist thuggery” they are continuing to execute their plan, and laughing at you because you are too blinded by prejudice and hate to analyse the situation properly.

            You may not like Russians, that is fine. But they are intelligent people and they are doing something here, and they are doing it for a purpose. C’mon Jim tell us what that purpose is.

            After all if you don’t understand them then how can you know that you don’t like them.

          • Jim

            Stop imputing that I don’t like Russians, it makes you look dishonest and idiotic.

            I don’t like Nazis. There’s a difference.

        • Loony

          Yes Jim, it is about more than football thuggery, but not in the way you seem to “think”

          You know you will never beat the Russians if you refuse to understand their motives. The more you persist with an infantile “good vs evil” simplistic analysis the more they laugh at you.

          Do you want to be laughed at by Russians? Why humiliate yourself in front of your self declared enemies?

          • Jim

            I’m not making any ‘analysis’ at all, your feeble last few lines from the previous post was your attempt at that. I’m simply throwing light on the true thuggish and fascistic nature of the people at the heart of Putins inner circle. Simple. I’ll leave the ‘analysis’ to geniuses like yourself.

          • Loony

            OK let us assume that the Russians are fascists. Two questions arise

            (i) What are you going to do about it? Your choices appear to be nothing or start a nuclear war. If you had the capacity to think you would realize that this is not much of a choice.

            (ii) If you consider the Russians to be fascists then why would you want to give them a lot of money? They are likely executing a strategy designed to induce in the governments of the west a sudden desire to hand them lots of money. Are you happy with this? But if you don’t understand what they are doing what can you possibly do to stop them pocketing lots of western money – some of which will likely be yours.

            What a very odd position you are taking. On the one hand you rail vehemently about Russian fascists and on the other you effectively claim that your moral superiority prevents you from doing anything to stop your money being given to fascists. If this comes to pass then that will make you a funder of fascism.

          • Jim

            The contents of the rubber room theorising of your overheated brain may be of interest to medical practitioners, but not to me.

          • Loony

            I think you will find the traditional phrase is “An apple a day keeps the Dr. away” It is NOT “An ad-hominem a day keeps the Russians away”

  • Habbabkuk (calling a spade a spade)

    After re-reading the exchanges over Peter Tatchell on the previous pages (and other comments about him) it seems beyond doubt that “Macky” is an unreconstructed homophobe.

    • Macky

      Seems you trolls have yet to learn that dirty Smearers are only covering themselves in manure.

        • Loony

          Why, only last night someone called Jim was bleating about Russians nailing his cat to a tree. That seems like pretty troll like behavior.

          • Habbabkuk (calling a spade a spade)

            You’re fairly economical with the truth, aren”t you. Are you related to Lord Armstrong?

          • Loony

            Are you familiar with the idiom “pot calling kettle black”

            By the way in these politically correct times I would be careful with the “spade” jibes

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            “I would be careful with the “spade” jibes”

            Sorry, Loony, but what are you on about? Could you be more precise?

    • giyane

      Unreconstructed homophobe

      Translate from lie-language to English. Bleep . This comment is reversing. Bleep.

      Macky is open-minded about other people’s sexuality.

      Islam is not monolithic. Shi’a are quite happy to engage in marriages of convenience, which contradicts the essence of Sunni Muslim practice in which 50% of our faith is fidelity.

      If you want no trust, hypocrisy, child head-mash, clinical labels for head-mash like bi-polar, and broken marriage => choose promiscuity. Guaranteed to do your children’s heads in and make them IS sympathisers.

      If you want secure children, practising the religion of truth, avoiding killing and low-life, practise fidelity according to the sunna of Allah, up to four marriages firmly and publicly declared.

      I wonder if even Habba-clown could cope with more Tel-Aviv Kibbutz beach bimbos at any one time.

      Muslims are human beings. Not prophet-clones, immune from life. We are not automatically sane. If you traumatise us and feed us with Lithium , as Israel does to create IS Frankensteins, you can run an army of brain-washed brain-mashed kung-fuseds to do your colonial killing.

      Islam is built up piece by piece from thousands of different good practises like an Islamic pattern.

      poor kid , what chance had he got being brought up in the most violent country on earth and the most sexually craven?

          • Habbabkuk (calling a spade a spade)

            Any thoughts about the latest shootings in Paris, “Macks”?

            Try and post about something else than just yourself, there’s a good egg! 🙂

          • Herbie

            Funny the way no one ever gets very excited about the day and daily murders in Honduras, Mexico and Colombia for example.

            Up to six times the level in the US.

            But whatever the media points its lens at is immediately a political issue for us.

            Good trick that, but not a very useful way of understanding what’s going on in the world around us.

            And there’s been so many incidents of this nature since 911 that they really do seem overly fortuitous for those whose propaganda interest they serve,

          • Jim

            And you haven’t mentioned the almost monomaniacal focus on Israel by many of the posters on here. Try and get them to express even a scintilla of interest in say, Chinese human rights activists trials and tribulations at the hands of the State. Zero interest. Funny that.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            Quick spot of diverting from Professor ‘Erbie :from homos to Honduras.

            No wonder he calls himself the Bog-Picture Man 🙂

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            Should have been “Big-Picture” Man . But in second thoughts……

          • Herbie

            israel takes a very direct interest in manipulationg the views and opinions of people in the US, UK and France, to name but three, undermining our freedom of expression messing with our major parties etc etc.

            Hardly surprising that we point out the flaws of those who tell us to better behave.

          • Jim

            God, we’re back to the shadowy cabals again, ‘International Jewry’ in Peter the erstwhile trade union hero’s immortal phrase.

          • Herbie

            They’re not shadowy at all. Very much in the open.

            There’s a fine example of it going on in the Labour party at the moment.

            And we all remember how the BBC and its Middle East reporters were hounded and harassed by the israeli lobby.

            To give just two major examples of interference.

            Anyway, it’s israeli interference in the internal politics of the UK that incline us to pointing up their own many flaws.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            The Professor has now left homos and Honduras behind and has journeyed on to Israel.

            He does get around, doesn’t he? 🙂

            Perhaps you have to to get ” the Big Picture”.

    • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

      “Spade jibes”?

      You’ve lost me but I’m sure you like to clarify.

      Wouldn’t you? 🙂

  • michael norton

    Man ‘claiming allegiance to IS group’ stabs French policeman to death

    The attacker repeatedly stabbed the officer before taking his partner and their son hostage in their home in Magnanville, near Paris.

    He was shot dead by members of an elite police unit after negotiations failed. The partner was found dead but the child was rescued.

    Sources close to the investigation named the suspect as 25-year-old Larossi Abballa, adding that he had been sentenced in 2013 for links to a jihadist network that sent recruits to Pakistan.

    A news agency linked to the IS group said the attack had been carried out by an “Islamic State fighter”, days after posting a similar claim following the massacre at a gay club in Orlando, Florida.

    French prosecutors have launched an anti-terror probe.

      • nevermind

        Now the facts are coming out, the attacker was a gay man who could not face up to the fact that his beliefs forbid the contacts he kept.

        He did knew the club and was a frequent visitor. His wife said he was mentally unstable, prone to rages and he beat her up.

        Time to tell the NRA that the mentally challenged, Hallo Macky, Jim and Habby, that guns are not for idiots to hold and handle.

        It is the NRA and its constant refusal to change the gun laws which is wrecking the fabric of society with hate crime.

        All this terror talk was rubbish.

        • Macky

          “mentally challenged, Hallo Macky, Jim and Habby”

          ?? If you have to say to me, say it instead of indulging in troll tactics.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            High horse, Nevermind? Surely you know that “Macks” gets round on a donkey?

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            which he does NOT ride side-saddle 🙂

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            one doesn’t often get to see an Ass riding on a donkey, we should enjoy the sight 🙂

          • Macky

            Put your glasses on Nevermind, one made yesterday & the other hours before your repeat;

            What did you mean by mentioning my name in your Post ?

        • Herbie

          So, it’s gays fighting amongst themselves.

          This isn’t uncommon actually, if a rather extreme version.

          So, what are we to think of Tatchell and Owen Jones who insist this is an anti-gay attack, to make political capital from the tragedy.

          Disgusting opportunists!

        • michael norton

          However in Yvelines the knifeman had links to AFGHANISTAN & PAKISTAN
          he had been in jail for assisting recruitment, there is so far NO GAY ELEMENT.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            Michael Norton

            In the name of common humanity, I neg of you to give it a rest!

            “Macky” is already gravely disturbed by the arrival of the splendid “Jim” and your even more recent arrival could well drive him over the edge.

            Your arrival and what you’ve been posting about has even encouraged Professrr ‘Erbie to descend from his Olympian stool and give us some more of his aphorisms.

            Please reconsider!

          • nevermind

            Micheal Norton, you are either deaf or you don’t want to know what happened.
            The attacker was a frequent visitor to the gay club, known as a customer, fact. Just as with your crap on the EU you are sending here, you are NOT REALLY REAL.

            Are you? in effect a computer.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            There you go – as soon as a fresh poster appears with a view which is not that of the Excellences, the insults start flying.

            Habbabkuk says : this blog should either not allow comments, or appoint me as Head Moderator, or go for full, verifable registratiion of people wishing to comment.

          • Herbie

            So habby arrives here with her chums, throwing shit around, and then offers to clean up her shit if she’s allowed to take control.

            That the basis of the Protection Racket.

            The basis of the hasbara model.

            And, very much the way our politics is managed today, both domestically and internationally.

            Curious, eh.

        • Alan

          “All this terror talk was rubbish.”

          It surely was! An American takes his big gun (which he needs to protect him from oppressive government despite the Homeland Security Act being a sure sign of an oppressive government for years now) and goes out and butchers a few of his fellow Americans. What’s new, or news, about that?

          • Herbie


            Par for the course in Neocon America.

            There’s political utility in these mass shootings, for elites.

            Those they don’t create themselves are simply a bonus.

        • Node

          His ex-wife says he used steroids – side effects include uncontrollable rage, rapid mood swings and violent behaviour.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            Welcome back, Node!

            Why have you stopped providing us with those lists of yours about Israeli “genocide”? Didn’t you once proclaim that you would be sending them to us for as long as it took?

  • nevermind

    Habbakuk seems to think this is the right thing to post here, when its blatantly untrue, all he does is create more chaos.

    However in Yvelines the knifeman had links to AFGHANISTAN & PAKISTAN
    he had been in jail for assisting recruitment, there is so far NO GAY ELEMENT.

  • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)


    As you pursue your lofty “conversation” with Nevermind, may I remind you of your own words of wisdom of yesterday (13h56) :

    “I love it when it’s troll versus troll time ! ?”

    • Macky

      Better even than Troll v Trol time, is Troll Bashing Time !

      So I await your response to the “State-sponsored homophobia” exchange 😀

      • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

        It’s true, “Macks”, that I enjoyed giving you six of the best when you got too uppity.. 🙂

        • Macky

          Your only redeeming feature that your Walter Mitty fantasies do give me a good belly laugh sometimes ! 😀

  • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

    Note the way Professor ‘Erbie panics when he hears the dreaded word “registration”.

    • Herbie

      It’s more that a clown like you can come here, cause such disruption over such a long period of time, then present yourself as the solution to the problem you’ve created.

      Like the protection rackets, you’re simply a gangster.

      • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

        Calm down, Professor.

        There is nothing for you to fear, practically speaking, from registration or my appointment as Head Moderator. Is there?

        As FDR famously said “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” (or something like that)

        • Herbie

          Well it’s the principle of the thing isn’t it.

          I mean, you create the problem and then present yourself as the solution.

          Not really the best way to proceed.

      • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

        Boring! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

        You’re running out of puff and the day’s still young! 🙂

      • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

        By the way, feel free to go to the toilet whenever necessary, I won’t mind waiting a few more minites for your replies.

        Same goes for you airing the attic and putting on a clean vest! 🙂

        • Macky

          LOL ! What’s the matter Clown, you’re tasked to reply to every comment but you want to go for a ciggie break ? 😀

    • nevermind

      Thanks for the best laugh this morning, Fredi, how fitting for Shillary.

      @Herbie. He also thinks he’s a scholar, you could not make it up. A secretive shankster and his Tel Aviv beach bunnies thinks he can bowl Craig over, take over this blog and screw it up some more.

      • Herbie


        It’s pitiful really.

        Never stops gobbing on about Oxford, but couldn’t construct a decent argument if her life depended on it.

        Probably a case of the Jeffrey Archer’s.

        Went to Oxford, just not the university.

        • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

          Are you speaking as Cambridge man or just as a professorial sourpuss?

          Anyway, good to see you’ve got on to the ad hominems, makes a refreshing change from not getting your way in discussions, eh? 🙂

          • Herbie

            Ad hominems!

            You’re accusing someone else of ad hominems.


            Are you some sort of vampire with no access to a mirror.

        • D-Majestic (Floreat Epona!)

          Took a walk in Cheltenham one afternoon, pretends he works there. Lol.

      • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

        On the contrary, Nevermind. Me as Head Moderator or, alternatively, registration together with verification would be an excellent thing for the blog.

        Tale the last couple of pages, for example: cutting 90% of that junk could only be beneficial and I suspect that if the identity of commenters was a matter of record the commenters in question light, finally, exercise a little welcome self-restraint. The only ‘victim’ of such reform would be certain commenters’ self-indulgence.

        • bevin

          This really is the most astonishing cheek: nobody abuses this blog more than Habbabkuk, who never makes a serious contribution, an honest remark or adds in any way to the discussion.
          As to the proof of this assertion, simply review the last 100 or so comments, of which Habba’s idiocy accounts for a large percentage.
          Nobody should object to contributions from zionists, fascists, homophobes, feminists, communists or whatever.
          All that ought to be required is that the contributions be related to the topics being discussed, original and conducted in the sort of civilised spirit in which rational people address the problems of the world. Habbakuk, for all the affectation of intelligence and the many hints of scholarship that he throws out is simply a thug with no manners and nothing to say except that, like all thugs, he admires thuggery.

    • nevermind

      Since you do not like answering questions I will post my opinion from yesterday again. It was posted 9.04am yesterday, Macky.
      When did you allure to the fact that he was a closet gay and disturbed?

      “-Why, I asked myself, would a young man with a wife and children beat up his wife, he had a secure job? what happened in his past, was he in effect swinging both ways, was he in the closet?
      Why would such a simple possibility not even mentioned? because he is a Muslim? because it does not fit into our agenda’s, perceptions and propaganda goals?
      Did the FBI monitor his computer like they do with so many of their interviewees? They’ve form and its known.
      -How did he pick his target? was he present in the club before?

        • Herbie

          “the director said he initially intended to make a film about how Magnitsky uncovered the tax fraud and was killed in order to silence him, but that his research later made him change his mind.

          The film now asserts that Magnitsky was not beaten while in police custody, and that he did not make any specific allegations against individuals in his testimony to Russian authorities.

          “I didn’t abandon that narrative easily because I was ideologically very close to Browder,” he said. “I was also a regime critic, honestly, on a lot of counts. But if we are not telling the truth, then it makes it easier for the bad guys to carry on doing their bad things.””

          • Jim

            Exactly why I said it would warm the cockles of his black little heart. Doesn’t sound like he’s been leaned on at all does it? Seymour Hersh says its so, and his global researching is beyond doubt.

          • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

            I wonder if the film maker has just a little squeeze put on him.

            After all, he wouldn’t want to end up dead like Magnitsky, would he. Even from a sudden heart attack and oooh wasn’t he young to die that way? 🙂

          • Herbie

            If Sy Hersch is saying it, then that’s the new US position.

            I do hope it means they’re retreating to the Munroe doctrine.

            What’s going on in south America sure seems to indicate it.

            And it’s very much what Trump has been saying.

        • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

          Mobe the wau Professor ‘Erbie says “Sy Hersch”.

          “Sy” – you know, as if he was personally acquainted.

          But that’s one of the perks of being a Big Picture guy, I suppose.

          We peeps have to call the guy “Seymour”.

          Some things never change, do they.

    • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

      Has Putin’s Russia taken in any refugees?

    • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

      In fact, has Putin’s Russia even offered to take in any refugees?

        • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

          So I guess the answer to both of my questions is “No”.

          Why am I not surprised?

          On a different but related topic, I wonder what percentage of its GDP does Putin’s Russia give as development assistance? (the UN set 0,75% as the target for member states).

        • Loony

          You are one of his friends Jim, as seem content to give him money. Do you have s self image problem.

      • Macky

        Over 1,000 Syrian refugees so far, how many has your favourite country, which actually that borders Syria taken ?

        • Habbabkuk (Habbabkuk welcomes fresh, genuine faces)

          Can you source that, Macks – a reliable link, perhaps?


          PS – if confirmed, an impressive figure for a country with a population of about 160.000.000 and a land area greater than that of the rest of Europe put together.

      • Loony

        A typical question from an anarchist – why am I not surprised?

        You have already been told that Russia hosts some 1.5 million refugees from the Ukraine. Assimilating these people has not been overly burdensome as they tend to speak Russian, and to share in Russian cultural norms and values. This presumably enables them to find work and to lead relatively independent lives.

        Due to Russian links with Syria there are a small number of Syrian refugees. However they tend not to like life in Russia at least in part due to an absence of “free stuff” I understand that Russian officials routinely advise these people that if they are looking for access to free goods and services then they should consider moving to the west where there is an abundance off free things.

        On the assumption that you live in the west you will be able to see with your own eyes the remarkable effect of offering people goods and services for free. Indeed we are now experimenting with negatively priced money which should lead to paying people to consume things. I do so wonder whether this is sustainable.

        The population of Africa is projected to double in the next 35 years or so. Obviously it is the responsibility of Europe to provide this additional billion people with housing, access to health care and free money. Presumably the lack of similar munificence on the part of the Russians is explained by defects in the Russian character. It cannot be that the entire western policy toward migration is so insane as to be scarcely believable.

        Basically Russians are just ignorant, stupid and follow contradictory policies. Lots of people accuse the Russians of being homophobic and yet they willfully pass up the chance of importing people into Russia who could, in due course, be relied upon to machine gun homosexuals.

    • Jim

      A sudden interest in Amnesty International! How heartening! Osama Nassar and his friends will be so pleased…oh, wait a minute..

  • Alcyone: The Dalai Lama, ISIS, and the President of the US

    June 14, 2016 at 13:53

    This is well worth a read.

    I can’t recall how I chanced upon it. If it was through a commenter here, thank you very much.

    PS hope it helps change the tone here with the blunt 6-blade knife, Macky varying between bitching and braying. And with that gaping mouth of hers, one feels she’s really dying to get on her knees and do some BJ’s.

    • Macky

      @Alcyone, Do you have anger issues with women ? Your long noted use of crude, misogynistic constructed language clearly suggests so; perhaps you should seek professional help instead on relying on the K stuff.

      • Alcyone

        LOL ‘Macks’, it’s fun to see you wriggle 😉

        You’re a lot nicer that way than your usual belligerent, self-righteous hyper self.

        Chill, my dear.

      • Alcyone: Ground control to Drama queens

        In chess it would be called checkmate, except you’re no King, just a bit of a drama queen whose bark is worse than their bite (pun intended!).

        And, now have a lovely evening.

      • Macky

        Now this is fascinating, as I’m interested in how a troll’s mind work; you say he “owned” me, whereas to sane people they would have observed him using misogynistic degrading language to insult me, and because I know he has a past history of doing this, not just to me, but to others as well, my reply was not “belligerent” as he put it, because I sincerely believe he has anger issues towards women, which could be potentially dangerous, so I advised him to seek help. He responded by making another misogynistic inference, and then further comments about seeing me “wriggle” & something about “checkmate” ! ?

        Can you explain how the “owning” part work, & what the heck he was on about, because all I can see is a cry of help from somebody who probably really needs professional attention ?

  • Alan

    New report on Israel lobby in Brussels’ reveals links to US Islamophobia industry and illegal settlements

    The report, which took more than two years to complete, uncovers the matrix of relationships within the Israel lobby – a social movement that overlaps considerably with the transatlantic Islamophobia industry.

    • Alan

      I guess that report means that Habbabkook is correct that all threads do indeed lead to Israel.

  • Ben Monad

    Mateen was a regular visitor to the Club. As I said earlier, his sexual identity was as confused as Dad’s political ideology. I think Dad ranting about gays set his screwy ganglions to screaming. Difficult to separate religion from these circumstances. Omar was on steroids, and this exacerbating of his mental state mixed with a violent and intolerant religious viewpoint, seems frequently involved in these shootings. Shall we add hypnosis to the mix?

    • Loony

      Who knows whether Mateen had an ISIS controller, some other controller, or was just mad.

      We do know that the FBI routinely seek to entrap people whose mental stability is questionable in order to set them up as terrorist suspects. This article provides background

      If this is what the FBI does then it would be surprising if ISIS did not target the same kinds of people. If you have the motivation then it is not hard

  • Tony M

    The terrible thing with these trolls if they’re on the UK taxpayer payroll, and not hirelings of some other criminal/mafia state in the US, Saud family or Isteali axis, squatting defiantly in Palestine, is that there was a presumption, by me, by many, that those doing secret or less secret civil service type things for governments which now includes trolling internet forums full-time, were thought to be, in this meritocracy, the cream in terms of outright intelligence, or had some talent, in mathematics, languages, scientific areas and so on, but it turns out, they’re, on the basis of the evidence thick as pig-shit, ignoramuses and thoroughly disgreeable people. I think they’re beginning to fantasize now that they are secret agents, playing a role in their swollen heads – they hide money in their hand-made Italian mocassins for emergencies and to affect a limping gait, are necessarily furtive, for they would not dare to own to the views they propound publicly for fear of humiliation and ridicule, and take circuitous routes back and forth from everyday errands, for Putin is watching their every move, hearing every Tourettes-like outburst accusing street furniture of anti-semitism and assailing bemused passers-by with blunt-edged whataboutery. Then there is the RD family, taking turns to man/woman the board, close to, if not god himself in the bureacracy, who claims to be the author of the disastrous car-crash Tax-Credits Blue/Red Tory policy, that lines the pockets of the most exploitative and tight-fisted employers as they parasitise the talents, the labour, the health, and the helplessness of the pool of wage slaves put at their disposal. The only real spook, with access confounding the Data Protection Act being the one called variously Alcyone or Villager, and he/she is the biggest fucking half-wit of them all. Anon and Sadasfuck mere twisted racial/religious supremacists, or blood and soil nationalists, joining the likes of Fred, Canspeccy & Co in that mentally challenged/disturbed category.

    I think Craig has the right policy, after all, in letting these fools expose themselves like this. Sad, that comment has been suppressed, that they’ve have had limited success in that area, but by allowing them to fill their boots, to over-extend themselves, to threaten to bully to harass to come so completely spectacularly undone, the smoke and mirrors has cleared tremendously, we now know what we’re up against and they’re nothing, less than nothing, a paper monster caught in the rain, collapsed in a sorry heap. Pitiful but unpitied.

    • Ben Monad

      Really? Their agenda needs more exposure so everyone can see the sub-humanity?

      Is there some mystery needing to be unveiled? Are Neo-cons too subtle in their ham-handed strategies?

      When will we know the real Donald Trump?

    • Habbabkuk (wipe out murdering terrorist scumbags)

      Great post, Tony, and hearty thanks for coming back to the blog after such a short absence.
      Keep up the quality and we hope to be reading much, more less from you in the near future!

      • giyane

        Careful! You nearly had a sea-lion moment just then. We don’t want the sausage to split open at this stage in the proceedings.

      • Alcyone: Tony M or Boney M?

        LOL Habby, nice spirited, graceful reply there.

        Boney M really is out sentencing us. Look at this one–his first sentence:

        “The terrible thing with these trolls if they’re on the UK taxpayer payroll, and not hirelings of some other criminal/mafia state in the US, Saud family or Isteali axis, squatting defiantly in Palestine, is that there was a presumption, by me, by many, that those doing secret or less secret civil service type things for governments which now includes trolling internet forums full-time, were thought to be, in this meritocracy, the cream in terms of outright intelligence, or had some talent, in mathematics, languages, scientific areas and so on, but it turns out, they’re, on the basis of the evidence thick as pig-shit, ignoramuses and thoroughly disgreeable people. ”
        Flippin’ nutjobs. Where do they come from? He’s certainly not a person of interest, but then again, if you’ve flipped, anything is possible. Just look at the shit in this guys brain. Section the oaf immediately!

        • Habbabkuk (impeach "President" Nicolas Madiro Moros now))

          Why thank you, Alcyone, nice of you to say so. I think even Giyane liked it, would you believe!

    • Resident Dissident

      Is this really what Marxist analysis has come to in its dying days. Perhaps the revolution would have been successful if you had written in shorter sentences? Sorry to shatter your illusions but I am a UK taxpayer and not on any Government payroll. And what were you working on at 4 o’clock in the afternoon?

    • Loony

      Bevin has something to say. Not necessarily something to agree with, but something worth paying attention to.

      You are free to exercise your right to disagree, or to not pay attention. You do not do this. Rather you make a multiplicity of posts that consist of nothing more than a combination of ad-hominem attacks and plain idiocy.

      Assuming that you are a human being and not a misfiring algorithm then you know perfectly well that you would never make the kind of remarks that you make in public – say in a pub for example. You would be barred, or filled in, or both before you had time to finish your drink. So why behave as you do on the internet?

      • Jim

        Bevin a pathological liar. Stop lying. He attempted to deny his support for an insane opinion piece by Paul Craig Roberts by pretending it was about a wholly different subject. Until I provided him helpfully with the link to refresh his memory. He refused point blank to answer my pointed questions as to his support for Roberts’ mass-murderous enthusiasms at both extremes of the political spectrum. Before throwing accusations around check your facts please.

        • Loony

          OK Jim just for you

          “pathological liar” “Stop lying” “insane opinion piece” “mass murderous enthusiasms” These all phrases written by you and contained in yet another hysterical post that adds nothing to any understanding of anything.. All of the phrases quoted constitute ad-hominem attacks.

          The foregoing is factually accurate and logically consistent.

          Your entreaty “Before throwing accusations around check your facts please” is yet more illogical drivel. The only accusation I made was that your posts “consist of nothing more than a combination of ad-hominem attacks and plain idiocy” This is readily verifiable, and I repeat Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

          The rest of my post constituted my own opinions which were used as the basis of an entreaty to you to behave in a more manner less likely to be pointlessly disruptive and gratuitously offensive.

      • Habbabkuk (wipe out murdering terrorist scumbags)

        “Assuming that you are a human being and not a misfiring algorithm then you know perfectly well that you would never make the kind of remarks that you make in public – say in a pub for example.”

        Loony – I am flattered that you are plagiarizing my line.

        However, acknowledging your source would be the nice thing to do.

        • Loony

          I am sure you will have no difficulty in believing that I would never knowingly plagiarize any of your “work”

      • Jim

        In case you missed it, Bevin claimed Roberts’ article was about Saudi Arabia, when the focus was putative US imperialist subversion of South American states. Hence my joke about camels being paddled up the Amazon. Is humour and deserved ridicule beyond your purview?

  • Alcyone: Whole lotta shakin' goin' on

    Craig, hope you’re well!!!???

    Please say something. There’s so much happening in this World. Or are you travelling?

  • Republicofscotland

    “Britain leaving the European Union would put the “screeching brakes” on Brussels forming a “dangerous” EU army made from the 28-member bloc, two senior French admirals say.”

    “In a letter to the Telegraph condemning the union, Vice Admiral Michel Debray and Rear Admiral Claude Gaucherand said Britain’s neighbors would continue to cooperate with the UK on “close and friendly terms” in the event of a Brexit because of Britain’s military and economic power.”

    In my opinion there would still be a strong possibility of a EU army without British participation, though, Whitehall I think would want to have a unofficial role.

    And with Nato sending four battalions to the Baltic states to bolster defences in the midst of tensions with Russia, the EU bloc in my opinion should welcome British troops, in the event of a Brexit vote come the 23rd.

      • giyane

        No, it’s M. Hollande doing his requested diversion act to get the attention of caring, ordinary people from looking at what’s going on in Syria. You can fool some of the people some of the time…

      • Republicofscotland


        Thank you for the link, I had read several reports on the issue, Hollande, I hope will succumb to public pressure on the labour matters. I admire the French, when it comes to standing up to detrimental policies imposed upon them.

        I just wish we in the UK, were as resolute, over Tory policies, or Labour ones for that matter.

        • Habbabkuk (impeach "President" Nicolas Madiro Moros now))

          Have you read the draft El Khomri law? As opposed to just reading curious “summaries” of it on dubious websites?


          Reminds me a little of “In Place of Strife” and the Heath govt’s Industrial Relations Act – are you old or well informed enough to know what they were?

          Looking back after Margaret Thatcher had finished her work on them, by God the trade unions must have wished they’d swallowed their medicine back under the Wilson or Heath govts! 🙂

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