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104 thoughts on “Discussing Chagos With Alex Salmond

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  • Anon1

    Russia Today’s tentacles even extend to running anti-British propaganda shows in Scotland with Scottish presenters. Called “Britain in the Dock” – from RT. YCNMIU!

    • Courtenay Barnett

      Anon1,
      Don’t you think that all the ‘ big powers’ via their media, in large measure, give their version of world events. In other words, does the US, UK, France, Russia, China – not take the facts then interpret from their perspective?

      In the case of the Chagos Islands maybe:-

      1. The ICJ did rule against the UK.
      2. The Chagos Islanders in the 1960s were forcibly removed from their homeland.
      3. The Islanders were dumped in Mauritius.

      So – to state as facts – numbers 1 to 3 above; is that propaganda?

    • Ken Kenn

      Listen to John Bolton’s views re: Brexit then tell me about interfering in another countries political processes.

      Obama opened his mouth and Brexiters were crying.

      We have a Tory party who loves the novel ( May’s Deal) but thinks the author is crap.

      That Legend in his own lunchtime Tom Watson goes to a Remain Rally ( note the word Remain Tom ) and then says he will back
      May’s deal ( a leave deal Tom) as long as the public are allowed to vote on said deal.

      If the Referendum on May’s passed deal is called he will ask the public to vote against the same deal he himself had voted it through.

      YCNMIU! indeed.

      And we wonder why people are angry?

        • Mistress Pliddy's parasol

          Anyone who seriously believes that Obama’s urging British people to vote remain was in any sense intended to persuade British people to vote remain is delusional or naive in the extreme. Unjoined-up thinking or what?

          • Stonky

            Anyone who seriously believes that Obama’s urging British people to vote remain was in any sense intended to persuade British people to vote remain is delusional or naive in the extreme…

            What he actually said was that if the UK voted for Brexit it would find itself at the back of the queue when it came to a trade deal with the US. Which, considering his presidency was going to be long since over by that point, came across as unbelievably arrogant, condescending and smug.

            But hey. How was he to know that the “anointing” wasn’t a foregone conclusion…

          • glenn_nl

            That expression – “back of the queue” – made it obvious the line had been dictated by Cameron, or one of his stooges.

            Having spent a number of years there, I’m pretty sure an American would use the phrase “back of the line”.

      • N_

        @Ken
        If the Referendum on May’s passed deal is called he [Tom Watson] will ask the public to vote against the same deal he himself had voted it through. YCNMIU! indeed.

        Yes – the fact that politicians spew bullsh*t doesn’t bother them but in this case both main British parties could be in trouble if there is either a general election or a third EU referendum, because they may find it hard to sell their brands with a version of how people should vote. This is especially true of the Labour party. If you look at the parliamentary Tory party and indeed the Tory cabinet it is already to large extent a coalition of two parties but they don’t sell it like that at all. Media editors are submissive morons and none of them has the guts to observe, for example, how many ERG members there are in the cabinet, or what kind of influence is afforded the ERG by having its own person installed as Leader of the Commons in which role she is in charge of government business in that stinky chamber. The Tories are also the party that has leading figures who aver, Google-style, that they’re not “nasty”, and who further say that they want to “hug hoodies”, whereas what they really think is a forced sterilisation campaign would be great because then their tax bill could go down, and that the working class is a parasitic class that is only the size it is because working class women on council tenants open their legs all the time so as to be able to claim benefits paid for by “hardworking” rich people. The Tory party is all about lying. They can’t open their mouths without lying. They’re stronger than Labour.

        Be aware that it can happen that people vote en masse for what they don’t want.

        And we wonder why people are angry?

        No – they’re not angry. Very few people are angry. They may mutter “Arseholes!” when they watch some lying politician on the telly, but that isn’t anger. In Paris there’s a bit of anger.

      • Chris Abbott

        Tom Watson loudly booed – seems to have been substantially toned down on BBC coverage, surprisingly. This chancer needs watching.

  • Republicofscotland

    Yip YT not showing the vid.

    Of course the Great Satan and its 51th state Britain will want to see this video has as few views as possible.

    They don’t want the truth to surface, nor the long term suffering of the Chagossian folk to be known. US/UK must be livid that they can’t blame this one on the Russians, well not yet anyway.

    Who’d want to be British, certainly not me.

    • Republicofscotland

      “and probably for a long time to come. ”

      Then again perhaps not, if Sturgeon triggers the mandate which she must or lose credibility. Britishness, is in my opinion a state of mind, one may be a British citizen on paper, but not in thought.

      • MJ

        I would have thought Sturgeon lost any remaining credibilty she had when she posted that selfie with Campbell.

        • Republicofscotland

          The mandate is what really counts, if she triggers it fine, if she doesn’t well that’s another matter.

      • Charles Bostock

        RoS

        Very true, one may be many things “in thought”. Walter Mitty certainly thought so 🙂

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          But you are avoiding what I, who you dismissed as a clown, wrote about what has been going on, and should be made to stop. Walter Mitty, who played him though I cannot remember his name, made a lot of money with his nonsense.

          If everyone is like you, we would be back in caves.

  • Courtenay Barnett

    Craig,

    For your information; over here in the Caribbean, this is what I get:-

    ” Video unavailable
    Watch this video on YouTube.
    Playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner”

    Someone, somewhere, does not want me to hear what you have to say – seems like.

  • Ian

    Good analysis by Craig, and an excellent summary from Salmond. Pity that the takeaway about Craig on social media will be a twitter storm about the overreaction to a trivial photo and not this far more important subject.

  • giyane

    Chump

    Most of what you say is uncontrovertible is highly contentious. As always.
    Mrs May told us she knew why we voted to leave 1/ to save money. 2/ because we hate foreigners 3/ because we hate the ECJ

    None of these things are the reasons why people voted to leave. A referendum is a political vote and she chose 3 non-political reasons for us leaving. She and now you both completely ignore the political issue which is German dominance of the EU.

    When you ask the obvious question you will get the obvious answer, Jeremy Corbyn’s answer. Norway plus. Nobody voted for you or your evil prime minister’s poisonous racist Brexit

    When I get to a device that can deliver more than a squeak out of video I’ll address the topic.
    In the meantime your obsessive trolling of irrelevant nonsense is just a pain in the bum

    • Loony

      Would it be possible for you to provide a reference to Theresa May stating either that she “hates foreigners” or that she believes that her electorate “hates foreigners”

      • giyane

        Don’t you start . How can you take control of your borders if you can’t police the one between Ireland and NI?

        Almost unbelievable deliberate falsification by the incompetent Tory party

        • Loony

          I merely asked if you could provide a reference for your contention that Mrs. May “hates foreigners” or believes that her electorate “hates foreigners”

          I take it from your response that you can provide no such reference. It therefore appears that you are simply making things up. Would you be content for people to make up and attribute obviously derogatory opinions to you?

          What do you find so attractive about telling outright lies?

        • michael norton

          Mrs.Theresa May probably does hate foreigners as do most of her class but mainly she knows that her electorate are very concerned about 1/2 million people entering the U.K. each year for the last dozen years.

      • Ken Kenn

        She did have a few vans going round when she was Home Secretary.

        ET Go Home I think it said on the sides.

        A bit like the TV Licencing Vans of yesteryear.

        ‘ We know where you are ‘ they used to say on behalf of the Home Office and its State television arm.

        Public service broadcasting with out any representatives of the public on the boards.

        Only in the UK could that happen.

    • MJ

      The question was simply in or out. No-one knows why people voted the way they did. You only know the reason you voted the way you did. May appears to have been overly concerned with immigration, whereas restoring control over immigration is, I would suggest, merely a consequence of reclaiming sovereignty.

      • Charles Bostock

        Evidently. In the hierarchy of norms, regaining sovereignty stands at the top and everything else (regaining control of immigration, no direct jurisdiction of the ECJ, autonomy In deciding how your money is spent) flows from that.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          Certainly not mine which calls for the end of secret operations, and the hypocrisy about it.

    • Charles Bostock

      Guano

      German economic dominance of the EU – together with the consequences flowing from that for the behaviour of certain other member states, notably France – is certainly a political fact whose importance has been under-estimated and under-examined/discussed at least outside various government circles.

      But I do not think it was an important element in the debate leading up to the referendum.

      • giyane

        Bostock
        I totally agree with you but since when did we listen to politicians and since when did they ever listen to the people?
        Merkel said democracy was not the right way to run a country.. Politicians will try any old tripe to see if anyone’s paying attention .

        I am grateful for Craig’s timely warning that the people’s vote is organised by the liar extraordinblaire

      • Sharp Ears

        Yet again you denigrate a fellow contributor by changing his name to a word for bird droppings in this case.

        • Charles Bostock

          Sharp Ears

          But I’ve been told that Giyane himself used to post under the handle Guano. Is that correct?

  • Doodlebug

    I find it touchingly ironic that a nation which once valued independence so highly they fought to attain it now operates so as to deny it to others.

    • Charles Bostock

      Waddya mean, all these years? I’m still a callow youth compared to grizzled old grumblers like yourself.

  • Andrew Ingram

    Germany gave up the old “nation-extermination” in 1945, lost the pariah tag and got lucky. Perhaps the UK could try to initiate a similar trajectory by doing the decent thing vis-à-vis the Chagos Islanders.

    • Charles Bostock

      The imbecilic post-war policy of Uncle Joe Stalin was the major piece of luck for the Germans. And it achieved nothing.

      • Andrew Ingram

        This thread/post is about the Chagos Islanders. How many of your contributions to this thread have addressed the point – British perfidy?

    • Ken Kenn

      Both beaten nations ( Japan and Germany ) were not rebuilt on the US economic model.

      Both working classes were exploited to the nth degree initially by the winning powers and it was only later that both nations rose to great economic heights.

      Japan lends a lot of its savings to the US and Germany has managed to keep producing surpluses to lend/send around the world.

      The one size fits all Euro model is favoured by the Germans for obvious reasons namely their productivity ( due to a lot of Post War investment ) is much better than France’s and the UK and much much more than Greece.

      The trouble is once you join the Euro you can never leave. That’s a hotel with branches everywhere.

      You can leave the EU ( the UK might or will ) but the UK does not trade in Euros.

      If the UK wants to get back into the EU a precondition will be the necessity to join the euro.

      I wonder what Remainers think off that possible future precondition post leave?

      I know what Brexiters would think.

      • glenn_nl

        I am not personally aware of any European (Germans excepted) who appreciated their currency being abandoned in favour of the Euro.

  • BrianFujisan

    Sharp Ears put the link up yesterday morning, that works fine..Direct to RT

    So I did enjoy watching it from that link ..Cheers Sharp Ears.

    The Youtube Link dose ask to ‘ watch on youtube ‘ click that and it works.

    It’s a great interview, Alex is on the Ball.. and Craig is Obviously an Expert on the Subject.. Alex’s closing talk was also great.. Well Done Craig And Alex.

    Next Time in the Studio Craig.

  • Republicofscotland

    Charles.

    This a quite remarkable post from someone who vehemently supports a oppressive apartheid state, that has been kiling the people of surrounding states for decades whilst actively destroying their economies to boot.

    • Charles Bostock

      The Arab states need no help from Israel when it comes to destroying their own economies, nor when it comes to killing significant numbers of their own citizens.

      • Herbie

        Is it your understanding, habby, that Israel does not interfere in the Arab states around it.

        • Charles Bostock

          Few states have not interfered in the affairs of the states around or near to them, Herbie, but few have interfered in such a drastic manner and far reaching manner as Nazi Germany

          But why are you and RoS talking about Israel when the subject is supposed to be Germany? Are you diverting for some reason?

        • Andrew Ingram

          The subject is the Chagos Islanders. @Charles Bostock has not said a word about the Chagos Islanders on any of his offerings on this post/theme/thread all he has done is distract and you bought his red-herring. Germany has never had an interest in the the Chagos Islands.

        • Charles Bostock

          Ingram

          Well, you haven’t said anything abut the Chagossians either, have you, except to say that I haven’t – which is even sillier. Don’t waste your time quarrelling, post something of substance and lead by example!

  • freddy

    The president has sought to portray himself as a victim of a conspiracy by “the deep state” as well as Democrats and the “fake news” media.

    As the Mueller investigation unfolds …… The Guardian offers clarity at this critical moment in American history. As the most momentous political probe since Watergate plays out, we will continue to provide insight, analysis and factual reporting to help bring the truth to light.

    Give or take the odd quotation mark.

    • Jack

      freddy

      One time the Guardian was of course one of the best outlets out there, today they are just part of that “fake news” and “deep state” conspiracy”-mongering that have discredited themselves so much past years. What will make them wake up or is it too late for them to acknowledge the facts?

      • Herbie

        “One time the Guardian was of course one of the best outlets out there, today they are just part of that “fake news” and “deep state” conspiracy”-mongering that have discredited themselves so much past years.”

        They’ve always been Globalists.

        When you perceived them as “best” that was simply because Globalism was dominant and cut the peeps a lot of slack.

        Now, Globalism is under increasing pressure from Nationalists, and all Globalist media, acting in concert, are trying to fight against that.

        That includes enforcing greater controls over the thought patterns of their populations.

        We should really cut out all the noise and just concentrate on how that Globalist versus Nationalist contest is developing across the world, coloured maps and everything, just like in a land war.

        We can only understand what’s going on in our own territories when we understand the fight that’s going on globally.

        • Herbie

          I mean, if you look at the Nationalisms in Ireland or Scotland, for example, it seems to me that these aren’t real Nationalisms, in terms of the Globalist/Nationalist divide.

          They’re more like regional autonomy within Globalist control.

          Real Nationalism, or at least the problematic Nationalism for Globalists is very definitively anti-Globalist.

    • Goose

      An unshakeable belief gripped the MSM, a kind of groupthink took hold, one making contrary opinion almost like heresy.

      Who needs evidence when the media are all in agreement?

      Personally, I always thought the whole idea of Trump /Russia collusion was nonsense, like Greenwald. Trump is far too erratic & impulsive for any state to wish to cultivate or try to control like that. Did Russia prefer him over Hillary? They’ve said so, but many countries and non-US politicians expressed a preference in 2016 for Hillary. The US involvement in Venezuela is far more intrusive into democracy.

  • pete

    bj Thanks for the Linux link, for users of this program – it also is available to windows users – and will also allow downloads from certain other sites (listed at https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/supportedsites.html)

    The numbers of views on You Tube of the Salmond discussion seems to be stuck, I cannot believe it is that unpopular, I presume the figure is incorrect or has been massaged.

    Alex Salmond is right about this issue, it should not be dismissed as Russian propaganda or be allowed to disappear in a flurry of whataboutery, moral comparison outrage. It would be a small thing for the UK to try to put right, no matter if it upsets some US politicians.

  • giyane

    Interesting the contrast between Craig’s point about USUKIS torture-rendition-brainwashing activity on Diego Garcia and Alan Duncan’s claim that it was keeping people safe. This is smoke and mirrors talk in the House of Commons which translated means threatening war and destruction against the Far East.

    Operations of the brain-washed Al Qaida have been suspended temporarily because of Russian and no doubt Chinese resistance to the Great Satan in Syria. The agents of Daesh/Al Qaida have been instructed to lie low, shave their beards and wait for further instructions while they invest their ill-gotten gains in real estate.

    It has been an enourmous shock to British Imperial arrogance to have been defeated in Syria, but for British malfeasannce the ICJ is an easy dupe. These arrogant evil scum Tories and Red Tories have been waging continuous war in spite of international law for the whole of my adult life. They are still confident of future imperial success by a combination of lies, bullying and bribery. They actually think they can bluff their way through this uncomfortable period of defeat with their pathetic lies in parliament

  • Sharp Ears

    He last registered a visit to Israel with the CFoI in 2013. He has spoken to AIPAC in the US, a couple of times, paid for trips to the tune of +£5k each..

    In 2017, he registered donations of £32,500 made in 2015/6, presumably for his campaign to become partei leader after Cameron slid off. A worm.

    ‘Anne Street Partners’ gave him £20k and another £10k came from ‘Alexander Temerko’. Anne Street is an Australian financial adviceutfit with a Southampton address in the UK. Why would they give him such large donations? or is that a silly question.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=10213

    The whole is long list of donations and foreign travel. Mick Davis still features as recently as 2016 when £7.5k was received from Davis.

  • freddy

    Have to say I liked this bit: “After Robin Cook was…” [pause] “…sacked.”

    I noticed that you removed a post and response to Jack on “Mueller Time”. This I expected – at the time I thought it was OT myself. But I found myself thinking that the video really does imply that the US is culpable to a significant extent. We often see the UK as a “poodle” to the US.

    The role the UK establishment had in the collusion hoax (follow George Papadopoulos on twitter for starters) was not the role of a poodle.

    Well examined here are events surrounding the Skripals; Sergei could possibly have been one of Steele’s “sources” for the collusion dossier? He and PM were his handlers. Where are the Skripals now? Some say Yulia is the US, and Sergei is back in Russia.

    And then we have the rather marvelous Mr Assange, as Wikileaks is a big part of this, what’s happening now? This, again, is relevant to the US/UK situation.

    Finally, it’s not all about black sites and geopolitical bases: https://www.fundedjustice.com/f1IJp5?ref=ab_4apRPYJd4DL4apRPYJd4DL

    Strangely enough. there’s also a lot of money involved.

    • N_

      Robin Cook was demoted first, and then he resigned later from his new office. I’m not sure what the reference was to in the video. (I prefer reading text to watching moving pictures – it’s more active and faster.)

      • N_

        In Robin Cook’s resignation speech in the Commons he fingered the non-enforcement of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242. Credit to him for opposing the attack on Iraq. His farewell words are to be contrasted with those of Jeremy “Paddy” Ashdown, who sang a paean to the weapons sector.

        • Sharp Ears

          I am sorry to see he supported Blair to continue as PM but also pleased that he spoke up against the war and also against Israeli Occupation of Palestine.

          18 March 2003
          Cook’s resignation speech
          Here is the full text of Robin Cook’s resignation speech in the House of Commons, which won applause from some backbenchers in unprecedented Commons scenes.
          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2859431.stm
          There is a link to a video but it is dead. Jeremy Corbyn is shown sitting behind Robin Cook in the thumbnail.

  • John Goss

    I’m still watching this but I was disturbed and ashamed to learn that in foreign office documents the islanders were referred to as “Man Fridays”. How disgusting is that?

        • pete

          Courtenay, thank you for sharing the link to your site and the essay, I am of that generation that appears to have, what I can only describe as casual racism and it has taken me a long time to understand the complex history that led to such a state of affairs. It is almost indescribably sad that humans continue to discriminate against one another based on marginal differences that lead them to believe in some mythical and meaningless superiority.

        • John Goss

          Thanks for sharing some of your life experiences. I like to think, and hope, you must have met a good few decent white people who included you in their company without prejudice Courtney. I remember in Leicester after finishing my apprenticeship I went to a church service with a man I worked with called Ezekiah Adams. I was the only white person in the congregation and I think it gave me a feeling for being the odd man out, though I was made welcome of course.

          I am convinced that many people by their words and deeds can be hurtful often through ignorance. But there are always good enlightened people too. The eighteenth century is my area of study and here in Birmingham centred the famous Lunar Society with Matthew Boulton. Erasmus Darwin, James Watt, William Small, Richard Edgeworth and Thomas Day (to mention a few). Day co-wrote a best-selling poem called “The Dying Negro” (Bicknell was the co-author) and there was much effort to raise awareness of the horrors and mistreatment of slaves. On the periphery was Robert Bage, a very good novelist, who raised the issue with “Fidel’s Tale” in his novel “Man as he is” (1792). It is these enlightened, and yes privileged, people and others fighting for abolition who make it all the worse that some privileged person, or persons, in the Foreign Office could be so mindless.

          • Courtenay Barnett

            ” But there are always good enlightened people too

            I am with you on that one John.

            Truth be told I met in Britain many good people of all colours. Just a few ‘nasties’ from time to time.

  • nevermind

    Thanks for this excellent interview Craig. I am somewhat taken back by the lack of public interest and or the media in upholding international laws and human rights, whether its this long running ignorance of the rights of Chagossians, our neglect and connivance at keeping this issue from the public, our outright refusal to change policies making any attempts to safeguard these islands from pollution and or long term damage possible. We have created this marine sanctuary to keep the rightful inhabitants out and the worst polluters and warmongers well established, an outrage.

    The second case in hand is the unilateral acknowledgement by the US president that Israel’s annexation, over and above internationally agreed borders, makes them the rightful owners of this Syrian territory. This issue will make for profound changes and actions in the whole of the ME as it now seems normal that stealing land and exploiting its resources, against the wishes of the rightful owners is what you do in that region.

    Who is next on the list to gain the lands between the Tigris and the Euphrates?
    As yet we have not had much of a reaction to Trumps latest n brain fart from this Government. Germany, France, Russia, China and the people who live on the Golan are vehemently opposed to such ignorance of international sovereign borders.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-israel-golanheights-mood/druze-on-golan-heights-reject-trump-backing-for-israeli-sovereignty-idUKKCN1R31QZ

    • Courtenay Barnett

      Nevermind,
      You said:-
      “I am somewhat taken back by the lack of public interest and or the media in upholding international laws and human rights…”
      Maybe Chomsky has insight through his “Manufacturing consent” book; or, in this instance, it is manufactured disinterest, in that the mass media has not educated the population adequately to promote interest – if not outrage as the decent response should be.
      With regard to the Golan Heights – here are my thoughts shared with you below:-

      http://blog.effectivelearning.net/the-golan-heights-venezuela-and-the-rule-of-law/

      • nevermind

        Thanks for your Link and explanatory blog, Courtney, much appreciated. It looks like there are at least two sets of international law, one that applies to us all, and one that does not apply to the bullies who just ignore it, get away with ignoring it and have nobody to fear but themselves.
        A Blitz, or a bolt from the blue can do more damage than the worldwide impotence being confronted with such law breaking. And whats behind it? the greed for fossil fuels, as usual.

        • Courtenay Barnett

          ” It looks like there are at least two sets of international law, one that applies to us all, and one that does not apply to the bullies who just ignore it, get away with ignoring it and have nobody to fear but themselves.”

          You got that right – nevermind.

          Sad – but true.

  • frankywiggles

    So Britain goes rogue even while pompously styling itself a pillar of “the rules based international order”. A bold bid to seize back its historic role as hypocrite par excellence.from the USA.

  • Sharp Ears

    The UK’s state broadcaster is putting out anti-Assad propaganda in the form of Book of the Week, in five episodes this week on Radio 4.

    Episode 1
    Book of the Week
    The Pianist of Yarmouk
    Ammar Haj Ahmad reads Aeham Ahmad’s dramatic account of how he risked his life under siege in Damascus by defying the Syrian regime with his music.
    /..
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003jvb

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