As anticant put it:

“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

Craig, off topic I’m afraid but I was wondering if you are going to write a post on Samantha Orobator? I recall you writing an excellent piece on the drugs smuggling that occurred in Ghana. (‘I am sick of the easy presumption by large sections of the media, whenever a British person is arrested abroad on drugs charges, that they are being unfairly dealt with by a tinpot state, and have been set up by evil foreigners.’)

I just don’t understand why the media thinks that showing VT of the mother calling for her expectant daughter to come home is going to make any difference.(‘”I’m just appealing to the British government, to the Laos authorities, to just please release her. They should just bring her back to me.”) I see the mother didn’t deny her daughter had smuggled the heroin. And she got pregnant in prison which sounds like a cynical way to try and get off.

I’d be very interested to hear your take on this one.

Yes Craig the McCanns are vile.

Whine, whine, whine – preferably on television – is rapidly becoming a prime national characteristic.

There’s something extremely odd about the McCann business, though I don’t know what. If they and the ‘Tapas Seven’ were all made to undergo interrogation under truth drugs, we might find out more. Meanwhile I repost the suggestive link I put on another thread:

http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007/10/gordon-browns-reason-for-helping-gerry.html

I’m looking forward to watching the reconstruction of the ‘Tapas Seven’ getting pissed while the children were left alone in their villa. I don’t expect this part of the film to present an accurate account though:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/madeleine-was-here

I have never understood how or why the McCanns got so much publicity. There are children going missing in the UK and in other European countries all the time — in cases where there was no negligence by parents — and they don’t get the same coverage. What is their secret?

Couldn’t agree with you more Craig. If you can spare the time to watch a video, made by the Portuguese detective who was sacked, he’s straight to the point. He goes through the evidence throughly and the fact that the children were left for nights on end and nobody prosecuted is mentioned.

http://henrynorthlondon.blogspot.com/2009/05/documentary-they-didnt-want-you-to-see.html

I warn you it’s around 45 minutes long but left me food for thought.

Subrosa, I couldn’t find the documentary at the place that you linked to.

Could this be the one?

http://tinyurl.com/cyv227

“undergo interrogation under truth drugs”

You do realise that such drugs don’t exist, right? wikipedia suggests alleged truth drugs work by placebo – the subject believes they cannot lie, therefore they cannot lie. Kinda like the stuff Derren Brown does.

I’m not a parent, and I’m sure that you (and other readers who are parents) have a better psychological insight into such matters, so pardon me if I’m being naive, but what can be gained by adding to the suspicions against people who have appeared to have suffered a great misfortune, namely the kidnap of a child?

I must admit that (as anticant says) there’s something a bit odd about the whole business – for me, the fact that the kidnapper/s knew when to strike – although, if they were being watched by criminals, that would explain it.

Watch subrosa’s documentary link; even if you believe in the McCann’s innocence, the documentary will leave you feeling that a cover-up has been imposed.

As a country boy, I have a lot of respect for the nose of dogs; and having witnessed the training of sniffer dogs, I’m inclined to believe the Portuguese conclusion: that the child died in the flat, and the parents effected a cover-up.

dreoilin – a possible answer to why they have received so much high-level support is suggested in the link I posted.

Whether it’s true or not, I’ve believed from the outset that there’s a lot more in this case than meets the eye.

As I’ve said previously, I spent several holidays in Praia da Luz in the 1990s, and it’s an off-track, sleepy little place where a lot of British expats live – not at all a likely focus for child molesters.

Yes Merkin that’s the one. Can’t understand why you didn’t see it with my link but pleased you’ve found it. It’s certainly worth viewing the main points.

Juse seen the video by the ex-investigator from the Portuguese police (Thanks Merkin on Paris), which is certainly eye-opening and suggests that accidental death, not kidnapping may have occurred. The question then is, if it were a tragic accident, why would a parent try to get rid of the body? Odd business, the whole thing ..

Allegedly …. instead of paying a child-minder, a sleeping draft was administered by a medically-trained parent who had taken one pre-dinner aperitif too many to permit an accurate dosing calculation.

The tragic result was ‘disappeared’.

All sounds quite plausible to me …

An experienced medical doctor, not under stress but on holiday, lethally miscalculating a dosage which he had already given to his other children doesn’t sound too plausible to me. But if it weren’t a tragic accident the alternatives seem much more ominous.

There was a child-minding service available at the holiday complex which the McCann’s chose not to use.

Also, it seems strange that this happened on the last night of their holiday.

I love your wit and your books are also good.

Praise be those msm idiots who can’t use you as something or other upsets nu-labours spin masters.

For amateur sleuths:

Here’s a URL to a photograph (Picture VI) of the apartment and nearby club:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/05/some-pictures-from-praia-da-luz-crime.html

I searched on google earth for the location corresponding to this photograph. Evidently North and South are inverted in in it. The coordinates of the Eastern point of the swimming pool are 37 05 18N, 8 43 51W, and you can type this text into Fly To and zoom in.

Now if the body were transported by car, where and how would someone in a hurry dispose of it? They would have well under an hour, so they could not have gone further than 10, max 20, miles from the place. Where would be the obvious place to chuck a body? If you thought ‘in the sea’ we’re on the same wavelength. But where? Beyond the beaches, deep enough to make sure that if a body tied to a stone were chucked it, it would be fairly sure to feed the fishes. Looking at google earth, there seem to be some dark blue patches along the coastline – if those are deeper waters then there’s possibilities. I found three at 37 04 54.34 (39.09, 34.88)N, 8 44 15.71(37.82, 52.89)W.

Anyone been there and know of a suitable place? Then phone Lt. Columbo (or whoever his Portuguese equivalent is)!

You’ve all gotten off topic and distracted from the real enemy – Oprah Winfrey. She had temporarily run out of people to exploit and has now chosen to go to Britain to find victims. Please have your immigration authorities get involved or your Home Office or whatever.

We must all work together to stop Oprah Winfrey.

u guys r crazy man

Numerous apartments and cars checked by the British sniffer dogs and the only ones to yield results for cadaverine and blood are those used by the McCanns.

So much more about this case that stinks; Google around for the Portuguese police evidence DVD.

Madeleine McCann was not abducted.

No one talks bad about Oprah,she picked our president.

Ompah winfrey’s diaphram???

Eeeeeew!

Craig!

This “Lyn” is a link to an explicitly racist website using the N-word. Censor Craig, do your duty!

It’s totally barmy. Don’t censor it – post rude comments on it.

Refuting it (and removing the ‘link’ information) might be an alternative to deleting it, of course.

There’s nothing to refute. It simply says “White = good, black = bad”. The writer is very lucky, having apparently never met a nasty white person…..

Lyn seems to have figured out that something is really fukked up. Shame she can’t look beyond colour to see some truth.

Forget “Lyn”. Returning to the McCann Case: there’s a stretch of 5 miles or so along the coast West of the holiday resort (from Luz to a mile or so beyond Burgau) containing spots of deeper water. An example of a spot near a road suitable for a driver may be 37 04 55N, 8 44 17W, except that it is near houses.

Can people who know about dogs say whether a dog sensitive to cadavers would pick anything up a long time after, if it were thrown in deep waters, if the dog were in a motor boat taken near the spot?

Lyn is plainly a misguided racist – or at least is linking us to a site which is. But the content of the comment here is not objectionable.

I think the only chance to get to the truth is when the McCanns get round to divorcing, then when the shit starts flying, we might get a confession or two.

I found the Portuguese documentary-they-didnt-want-you-to-see entirely unconvincing.

Even the concept that trained dogs can detect where cadavers once were is highly questionable. Their presence at different parts of a potential crime scene is likely to result in the dogs themselves contaminating it and actually moving human DNA from one place to another.

The idea that the McCanns would hide the body for over 23 days – whilst under intense investigation – and then hire a car to move the body is totally ridiculous. If her DNA was actually in the car – it probably fell off the dog’s nose – having been transported from the flat.

I admit the case is extremely strange – more for the fact that it occupied a significant amount of newsspace for over a year.

I still think it probable that the child was abducted by persons unknown and believe there is a fair possibility that she is still alive.

Whilst the McCanns were highly irresponsible in leaving their young children unattended, a significant proportion of the public have subjected them to a witch hunt and are 100% sure of their guilt without there being any real evidence. I think it highly probable they are innocent of any major crime – but that there is something else going on that I do not understand.

Whilst it is unusual for Children so young to disappear, Children do indeed disappear. The statistics for under 16′s disappearing (runaways) are a National disgrace. According to the BBC 86,000 under-16s go missing in England every year.

Yet the media obsession occupying most of the news for over a year was about one single 4 year old.

By now she could be 6 and living in a mansion in Argentina having almost completely forgotten about her real parents.

Some people do evil things and kidnapping Children is one of them.

Sorry, Craig, but that was a vile post of yours. The McCanns only came to media attention because their daughter disappeared. They have not forfeited the right to respect and not having their private lives discussed by a load of prurient harpies, which is what your post has shown you to be.

Millions of children have been left alone over the years by perfectly responsible parents whilst the parents were next door at the neighbours or just down the road, or simply in another part of the hotel.

In my opinion what the McCanns should have done is what a Portugeese or Spanish parent would have done and taken the kids with them to the restaurant, but then another collection of Anglo-Saxon harpies would have found something else to complain about.

We always took our young children on holiday with us and always took them to the restraunt with us. It was usually the Greek Islands and all the Greeks treated them wonderfully.

However, we also took them to music festivals from as young as 3 months. Some people thought we were highly irresponsible but they never came to any harm. My wife openly breast fed – sometimes while dancing. No-one complained. That’s what breasts are for.

But once we were robbed in the middle of the night. The guy actually came into our tent whilst we were all asleep. He didn’t steal our children – but he did steal my wallet – and carefully went through it all – leaving all the credit cards and personal stuff in a neat pile – just taking all the cash. He also “did” about 15 tents – all in close proximity. Only one person woke up – and he said – sorry mate – wrong tent.

Now when I went off to the police to report it – our 4 year old tried to follow me – and “got lost”

So I’d not only lost all my cash – I had also lost my little boy.

Fortunately someone took him to the “found children” place – where he was playing perfectly happily.

Now if something far worse had happened – and he’d disappeared and was found drowned in the Thames – we would immediately become prime suspects of murder.

Particularly in cases involving Children, the police, the legal system, and the “experts” are determined to find someone guilty – even in cases where it is highly probable that no crime has actually been committed.

Here is an example of a case I have studied in great detail and come to the conclusion that a totally innocent person has been jailed for 3 years for a crime I am 100% convinced she did not commit. Her case is about to go to appeal, but she has already served half her sentence.

http://www.carers4carers.co.uk/index.html

Stephen

I disagree with you entirely. One child was age 3 and two were age 1. Responsible parents never leave children of those ages alone for an extended period. Even in you wn home. if the child were upstairs and you were downstairs, 99% of parents would use a baby monitor.

To leave children that small alone in a foreign hotel room – night after night -

is grossly irresponsible. I would never have dreamt of it with my own kids.

Tony

Jamie once ran away from me in Debenhams, age 3, in a pirit of mischief. He dashed between the legs of people and hid behind a perfume counter. It tokk me ten minutes to find him. I was terrified and he thought it was hilarious. So I know how it felt when your kid got lost.

But there is a huge difference between a child wandering away from you, and deliberately abandoning them. That is what the McCanns did.

“what the McCanns should have done is what a Portugeese or Spanish parent would have done and taken the kids with them to the restaurant”

Exactly, or used the baby-sitting service that was available. I don’t have to be an “Anglo-Saxon harpy” to find the whole thing weird (and irresponsible) in the extreme. I don’t believe in these “millions of children” under 4 years old that are left alone by their parents, and if I did, I wouldn’t consider their parents “perfectly responsible”. I’ve had two of my own and what the McCanns did would have been unthinkable for us, even when they were much older.

Thanks to others here for the links. Eye-opening.

Craig,

I agree that the McCanns were irresponsible in leaving their young children unattended, but branding them vile is much too strong.

However having read posts on the subject elsewhere many people become so obsessed, that given half a chance they would string them both up to the nearest lamp post.

Yet there is absolutely no real evidence that they did anything more than they have clearly admitted to – which is to leave them unattended – something that most parents will have done to varying extents. Children are still unattended if they are left upstairs asleep in their bedroom alone – even the with the use of a baby alarm.

A quick google search revealed the following:-

http://www.amberalertregistry.org/amber-alert-statistics.html

” Learn about the Current Kidnapping Statistics in America Today

United States Statistics Missing Children Statistics

- A child goes missing every 40 seconds in the U.S., over 2,100 per day

- 800,000 children go missing each year

- 90% are juveniles

- 50% are 4 to 11 years old

- Strangers commit 53% of child abductions that end tragically

- Kidnapping statistics in America also show that it generally takes a parent 2 to 4 hours to provide complete information to law enforcement agencies

- Another 500,000 go missing without ever being reported”

On that basis alone, the odds that a child of some UK parent abroad will be kidnapped is considerable. The weird thing is that it is so rarely reported or given media attention.

To jump to the conclusion that the McCanns must have been involved in the death of their child taking all the evidence into account – is highly illogical.

A much more likely scenario – was that she was kidnapped to order – possibly by an extremely rich couple somewhere in the world – who had lost their own child and wanted a replacement look-a-like.

The statistics demonstrate that people actually do commit such evil acts far more frequently than is generally recognised.

I qualify my post above on further research that shows that the above statistics are misleading.

Only a tiny percentage of the figures quoted above are actual kidnappings by strangers.

Here are more accurate figures

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

* 797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.

* 203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

* 58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.

* 115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

Tony,

I really son’t accept an equivalence between leaving a child in a bedroom in your own home while you are downstairs, and leaving it in a bedroom in a hotel when you have left the building to go to a restaurant

And a hotel room where, if my memory serves, the interior door into the corridor was locked but the outer windows looking towards the street weren’t. And three very small children left alone in it, the hotel’s baby-sitting service having been declined.

Culpable gross negligence, at the very least.

I am not arguing that there is an equivalence between “between leaving a child in a bedroom in your own home while you are downstairs, and leaving it in a bedroom in a hotel when you have left the building to go to a restaurant”.

I would even accept the charge of gross negligence.

So far as I recall the restaurant was about 100-200 metres away in the same complex. If it had been 1-2 km away the degree of negligence would have been much worse.

If the restaurant had actually been a part of the same building and they were eating and drinking within 10-20 metres, the negligence would have been much less – and most people would argue there hadn’t actually been any.

Its all a matter of degree.

Personally meal time was always a family affair for us – and we ate together. But most families treat their kids as if they are pets. They feed them junk “kids food” seperately and then send them to bed.

Its all very well to draw lines after the event – and deem what is gross negligence and what is acceptable behaviour, but if there had been no incident, there would have been no accusations.

ah,well, you see, it’s all because of that ugly pimply man who has now so belatedly entered the spin factory.

Yes. The pimply man was apparently seen standing beside a large cauldron cackling wildly. What happened to the ‘George Harrison’ e-fit man?