Disappearing Aircraft

by craig on March 19, 2014 8:07 am in Uncategorized

I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.

CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off.  It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft.  But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency.  (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency.  That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)

I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land  I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region.  Somewhere there is debris on the ocean.  There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented.  However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen.  In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.

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  1. “Standard protocol especially since 9/11 ((it was altered briefly in the US immediately before) to scramble fighters if commercial planes fail to respond”

    No, it was always standard procedure. What was changed a few months before 911 was whether pilots had the authority to shoot down planes that were heading for populated areas. They used to, but it was changed such that only the Defense Secretary could authorise such action.

  2. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:13 pm


    Lithium batteries on board….


    “Any Li-ion battery has the potential to go up in flames, and that’s a product of its chemistry. Lithium is used in batteries as an anode because it has extremely high electrochemical potential. That is, lithium-ion moving to the electrode produces a lot of energy. Lithium’s low atomic weight is also useful in reducing the mass of batteries.”

  3. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:19 pm

    SAA 295 (referenced by James, i think) had gear in the rear, Passengers had moved into first class to avoid smoke and fire, but will we ever know?

  4. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 4:52 pm

    I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking ‘misdirection’.


    “Then came an unexpected turn of events calling that story deeply into question. On March 7 Americans began to drown in a deluge of headlines pointing them thousands of miles from Ukraine, to Malaysia, where Flight 370 had inexplicably vanished.

    Ever since, the mystery of 370 has at least rivaled, and more often eclipsed, Ukraine in U.S. news headlines — even in our most respected elite news sources. Ten days after it disappeared, Flight 370 still held five of the top six spots on the New York Times website’s “most viewed” list, while Ukraine limped in at numbers 8 and 9. Over at the Washington Post site, the missing flight took two of the top four spots on “Post Most” (and an impending snowstorm held the other two). No sign of Ukraine at all.”

  5. http://www.kinitv.com/video/5060O8

    Published on 21 March 2014 23:3
    The spotlight has once again fallen on the cargo of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 after authorities today confirmed the aircraft was carrying lithium-ion batteries which can be highly flammable.

  6. Ben-MAD Western Carnivore and Warmonger

    21 Mar, 2014 - 5:56 pm


    “PARIS, Feb 15 (Reuters) – Airbus has dropped lithium-ion batteries of the type that forced the grounding of Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner and will use traditional nickel-cadmium batteries in its crucially important next passenger jet, the A350.

    The European planemaker said on Friday it had taken the decision to adopt the batteries used on existing models in order to prevent delays in the A350’s entry to service next year, amid uncertainty over the potential fallout of Boeing’s problems.

    The move came a week after Reuters reported that Airbus was considering such a move to limit the risks surrounding the development of its own $15 billion airliner.

    “We want to mature the lithium-ion technology but we are making this decision today to protect the A350’s entry-into-service schedule,” an Airbus spokeswoman said.”

  7. Ben

    I am a “tad wary” that it was taken over “by remote control”, yes.
    However I think people are missing an important point about what may have happened.

    As for SAA 295. It was a 747 operated by South African Airways.
    The “config” of their “Jumbo Jets” at the time were half pax, half cargo.
    Yes pax were at the front….as they couldn’t be seated in the cargo area (aft).

    The “S.A. Govt” were of course “known” for carrying “allsorts” of stuff.
    They were “beating” the weapons embargo ! And everyone knew it. But did little.

    The fire started aft, in the cargo dept.
    And the rest (as they say) is history. And that’s what happens when their is a fire onboard.

    As for “pilot suicide”. It is possible in this case…as so are many things.
    Many things like an attack on KL ? Was that the intention ?

  8. Pink

    As far as I know lithium-ion batteries when they “burn” tend to explode.
    The MAS a/c flew (appears to have) for a number of hours.

    I would like to know what was on the manifest.
    And I would like to know what was loaded that wasn’t on the manifest !

  9. Do you mean as in smuggled on or as in hidden James ?

    “And I would like to know what was loaded that wasn’t on the manifest !”

  10. Pink

    Not sure. One or the other. Or both.
    What has happened (in modern times) is unheard of.

    Take “pilot suicide”.
    Why fly so long ? Makes no sense. (many reasons why not, too numerous to list).
    Sure it has happened before (Egypt Air)
    And the “attempt” on the DHL (?) cargo plane (for Life Insurance).
    Just to name but two

    But “this”. It’s totally weird. Something else must be going on.
    No idea what.

  11. Pink

    “Some of these factors coalesced in Malaysia becoming a quiet but essential logistical hub for Islamic terrorists, from those with global designs like al-Qaeda to regional groups with more local ambitions like Jemaah Islamiyah. On January 4 and 5, 2000, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi arrived at Kuala Lumpur International Airport and headed directly to Cheras, a suburb of the capital city in neighboring Selangor state”.


    From 2010

  12. straw44berry

    21 Mar, 2014 - 9:43 pm

    @ James 8.31pm
    And the “attempt” on the DHL (?) cargo plane (for Life Insurance).
    Just to name but two

    I posted this earlier today on David Icke:-
    Just by coincidence I am currently watching a NatGeo programme ‘Air Crash Investigation’ about Federal Express Flight 705 to SFO in 1994 a cargo plane being hijacked by a Flight Engineer facing termination of employment because of irregularities in reporting of flight hours.


    The hijacker brutally attacked the 3 man crew and injured them all, whilst one of the crew fought the highjacker in the cockpit doorway, the badly injured co-pilot raised the nose of the aircraft and climbed, a DC-10 which ejected the 2 fighting men back down the aircraft away from the cockpit. The co-pilot then flipped the plane over far more than the recommended limit of 60 degrees to an angle of 140 degrees. Any further and he would have suffered from lack of vision. This meant the 2 that were still fighting were doing so on the ceiling of the cabin.

    The crew member called for help and the co-pilot who had finally managed to contact air-traffic control in this window, settled the plane down and put it onto auto-pilot, however flying away from their new planned landing in Memphis.

    The removed all weapons from the vicinity of the hijacker and the pilot took over controls unaware they werent flying towards the runway at Memphis. He was aware that they would be trying to land severely overloaded, however the switches to dump fuel were out of reach at the engineers position.

    Before the flight had taken off the hijacker had twice turned off the Cockpit Voice Recorder but each time the co-pilot spotted it was incorrectly in the off position.

    There are certainly enough similarities to MH370 and if the hijacker had only had 2 crew to overcome the plane could have remained in autopilot heading in whatever direction the plane had been on after the aerobatics using the aircraft to attempt to allow the hijacker to be overpowered.

    20 years on could an engineer have been on board flight MH370 and been turning off the Transponder, ACARS etc.

  13. As is the pattern with modern airliners the B777 is flown by two pilots and there is no flight engineer. On a passenger flight the captain ought to be able to expect help from the cabin crew or sky marshall (if carried) and even the passengers to subdue anybody trying to make trouble.

    So far we really have very few clues as to what happened on board MH 370 and won’t until the aircraft or it’s wreckage is found and the CVR and flight recorder recovered. Until then everything is just idle speculation.

  14. Straw44berry

    I think Kempe just answered that.

    I can only add that the “flight engineer” on MH307 was likely an “mechanic”.
    Also he worked in private aviation, so likely Gulfstreams, Globals, etc….

    He “could” have had working knowledge of “comms” (ACARS, SATCOM and so on) and he could have had flight training (pure speculation of course) BUT I doubt he could have taken control of a Triple 7 “bang on” the hand over (one controller to another) and then turned the aircraft “straight down” the horizontal separation.

    You have to remember that there were likely “four” controllers that didn’t know which was in control ! AND add in “two” military controllers monitoring that airspace that would think “one” of the “four” had this aircraft under control !

    THAT is some doing.

  15. BrianFujisan

    22 Mar, 2014 - 2:27 am

    Ben and Co

    You’ll Love this Theory Lol

    ‘Black Hole’ Theory for Missing Malaysia Flight 370? CNN Anchor Actually Asks

    “I know it’s preposterous, but is it preposterous, do you think, Mary?” Lemon asked Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.
    Schiavo wasted no time. “It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe, so we know it’s not that. The Bermuda Triangle is often weather and ‘Lost’ is a TV show.”

    Today (March 20), Australian maritime officials released new DigitalGlobe satellite photos that show potential debris from the missing jet, offering a new focus for the search teams. It bears mentioning that should a real black hole actually materialize anywhere near Earth, the odds of its massive gravitational influence going unnoticed by astronomers around the world are, well, astronomical.

    “It is. A small black hole would suck in our entire universe,

    WHO Are These People..FFS


  16. Brian Fujisan…

    They are American !

    Fox News took a several days to realise Malaysia was “mainly Muslim”.
    ….AND they were actually shocked !

  17. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html

    Transcript of flight DH370.
    …..and it sounds very sloppy to me.

    The note confirms it is a Mandarin to English translation.
    So that’s English (the original) to Mandarin and back to English.
    Maybe that’s why it sounds “sloppy”.

    The “media” report that “experts find nothing wrong” with these comms.
    No idea who the “experts” are. But they must be crackers.

    If (IF) that is the “proper” transcript.
    And if (IF) the (a) pilot(s) are not involved.
    And if (IF) there was no “catastrophic” failure of the aircraft….

    ….then I wonder if they were hijacked whilst “on the ground”.
    Just (yet another) possibility.

  18. Mind you…. it would seem that ATC at KUL likes to keep pilots guessing !

    The weather there can change quite drastically.
    Storms can roll in. So you’d think for them (ATC) they be on the ball.

    But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ???????

    I’m f***ed if I know from that transcript !

  19. The Malaysians are being over-maligned regarding wasting time on the original search, rather than shifting sooner to the current location west of Australia. A lone commentator on CNN agrees. They could not have devoted resources until supplied with satellite pics of the two pieces of debris at the southern end of one of two vast arcs.

    Now that those have not yet been located, we’re told they probably sunk, so as not to embarrass the West, something no one mentioned re the search based on Chinese satellite pics. Another expert doubts the new pics, because the objects are too large; if the wings broke off and fuel tanks were empty the pieces would not float flat, but vertically like an iceberg with the lightest end above water.

    The following timeline is from:
    POSTED: 20 Mar 2014 20:43

    With bits in [ ] interleaved from The Guardian and Malaysian Airlines. Note that times may not agree and days may be off by one. This will clarify matters or add to total confusion. My point being that Malaysia couldn’t start the Indian Ocean search until around March 15th when experts agreed on the Inmarsat data and a smaller search area until around March 20th when they had satellite pics of debris.

    — The Boeing 777 takes off from Kuala Lumpur, bound for Beijing, at 12:41am. It vanishes from Malaysian civilian radar at 1:30am, just before passing to Vietnamese air traffic control. It blips on military radars until 2:15am, but that sighting is only identified later as flight MH370.

    — The search area now includes land on the Malaysian peninsula itself, the waters off its west coast, and an area to the north of Indonesia’s Sumatra island — all far removed from the flight’s scheduled route.

    — Malaysia expands the search zone again to include the Malacca Strait off its west coast and the Andaman Sea north of Indonesia, hundreds of kilometres away.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    [“Friday, March 21, 05:30 PM MYT: I would like to briefly discuss the processing of the Inmarsat data. The investigations team received the complete raw Inmarsat satellite data which included the six handshakes at approximately 15:00 on Wednesday 12th March. This type of data is not normally used in investigations of this sort. It is only because we have so little other information to go on in this difficult and unprecedented situation that the data is being used.”]

    — Chinese satellite images of suspected debris in the South China Sea are found to be yet another false lead.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    [“Initial results were received on Thursday 13th March at approximately 13:30, but it was agreed by the US team and the investigations team that further refinement was needed, so the data was again sent back to the US.”]

    — The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    [“The results were received at approximately 14:30 on Friday 14th March, and presented to the investigations team at a high-level meeting at 21:00 on Friday. The UK AAIB, who had also been processing this data independently, presented their results – which concurred with ours and those of the US team – at that meeting.”]

    — Satellite data [Inmarsat] now places the jet anywhere on one of two huge arcs — a northern one stretching into Central Asia and a southern one swooping deep into the Indian Ocean. The search in the South China Sea is called off.

    [Sat 15 Mar: … the plane’s communications systems had been deliberately turned off and that the jet had seemingly flown on for another six hours after contact was lost… while the transponder and Acars data system were turned off early in the flight, the plane communicated with satellite seven hours after it took off… The satellite communication could only determine that the plane took one of two huge flight corridors following its last confirmed location at 2.15am a week before over the Malacca strait.]

    [Malaysian Airlines re Inmarsat]
    [“The Prime Minister was briefed on this satellite information at 08:00 Saturday 15th March, and publicly announced it at the press conference at Saturday lunchtime. Search and rescue operations were immediately shifted to the northern and southern corridor.”]

    — Malaysia announces that the number of countries involved in the search has jumped from 14 to 26.

    [Guardian: Mon 18 Mar: While the last signal from the Acars data communication system came earlier, at 1.07am, it was not due to transmit again until 30 minutes later, Hishammuddin, the interim transport minister, told reporters, meaning that could have seemingly been turned off at any point before 1.37am.]

    — Australian and US surveillance planes begin combing 600,000 square kilometres (230,000 square miles) of the remote Indian Ocean in the southern search corridor.
    — The total search area now encompasses an area bigger than Australia, Malaysia says.

    — The massive 26-country search appears bogged down in coordination problems, with some ships and surveillance planes sitting idle pending clearance to enter foreign waters and airspace.
    — In a further sign of miscommunication, the Thai air force reveals that its military radar had picked up what appeared to be flight MH370 just minutes after it was diverted.

    — Australia says satellites have spotted two objects — one estimated at 24 metres (79 feet) long — in the southern Indian Ocean. Officials in both Australia and Malaysia says the imagery is “credible” but caution that it shows nothing definitive yet.

  20. James, I’m in full agreement with you about the manifest, the Lithium batteries are a red herring.

    This is well worth a read,do not tell me nothing showed up on their radar the night of MH370 disappearance,the very fact no one is questioning & pestering them stinks to high heaven;

    ‘Diego Garcia is one of the five control bases for the Global Positioning System, operated by the United States military.
    The United States Air Force operates a High Frequency Global Communications System transceiver site located on the south end of the atoll near the GEODSS station. The transceiver is operated remotely from Joint Base Andrews and locally maintained by NCTS FE personnel.

    Naval Computer and Telecommunications Station Far East Detachment Diego Garcia operates a detachment in Diego Garcia.
    This detachment provides base telephone communications, provides base network services (Local Network Services Center), pier connectivity services, an AN/GSC-39C SHF satellite terminal, operates the Hydroacoustic Data Acquisition System, and performs on-site maintenance for the remotely operated Air Force HF-GCS terminal.


  21. straw44berry

    22 Mar, 2014 - 9:22 am


    But can anyone tell me what the surface winds direction and speed was at KUL when MH307 was Cleared For Takeoff ?

    Answer:- At 12.30 am on 8/3/14 Windspeed was 2 mph from the ESE.


  22. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586308/Missing-jet-WAS-carrying-highly-flammable-lithium-batteries-CEO-Malaysian-Airlines-finally-admits-dangerous-cargo.html

    What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:

    When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: ‘We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.

    ‘It was a large quantity – about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,’ he said to laughter from the media.

    What he said today:’We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.’

    What he will say next week:
    We carried tons of porcelain.

    What he will say in 6 years:
    Magically, perhaps due to the salt in the water and due to the high pressure 4000 metres below sea level, the porcelain on board transformed into gold.

    At least this is technically much more likely than the quick transformation of mangosteen fruits into lithium batteries. The malaysians are true magicians.

    Media photos of the flight simulator are photoshopped.


    Watch the vertical line in the middle on top of that picture where the background of his flat suddenly ends. I almost bet that he didnt have a flight simulator. This is setup due to the script.

  23. @straw44berry – I think the point James was making was that the crew should have been told the wind info before take-off and that it should thus be in the transcript. Thus lax procedure.

    I’ve not read the transcript yet.

  24. Bleb

    Spot on. Hence the “transcripts” have to be a very bad “fake”.

    So proof (if proof where needed) how “bad” the MSN “exclusives” actually are.
    And how “really bad” the “experts” on “The News” are.

    Wonder if CNN have found their “black hole” yet ????

  25. Bleb

    I realised that and even if it were translated twice whole parts of the conversation cant disappear. I assume they would also ask about cloud cover and visibility, especially when taking off at night.


    How easy would it be for the whole flight to be a phantom?

  26. Visibilty was 10km between Midnight and 1am though by 2am it was just 3km

  27. BB, are you sure that’s the right link for the Iranians?

    I cannot find the animated photo we had earlier in the week,maybe its been pulled as it was very incriminating.

  28. Here’s the cargo,

    03/10/2014 21:55 -0400
    A curious story, and one which should be taken with a mine of salt, has surfaced out of the pro-Russian newspaper Iskra, which reports – so far on an entirely unsubstantiated basis – that last Friday, in a mysterious operation under the cover of night, Ukraine’s gold reserves were promptly loaded onboard an unmarked plane, which subsequently took the gold to the US.

    From the source:

    Tonight, around at 2:00 am, an unregistered transport plane took off took off from Boryspil airport.

    According to Boryspil staff, prior to the plane’s appearance, four trucks and two cargo minibuses arrived at the airport all with their license plates missing. Fifteen people in black uniforms, masks and body armor stepped out, some armed with machine guns.
    These people loaded the plane with more than forty heavy boxes.

    After this, several mysterious men arrived and also entered the plane. The loading was carried out in a hurry. After unloading, the plateless cars immediately left the runway, and the plane took off on an emergency basis.

    Airport officials who saw this mysterious “special operation” immediately notified the administration of the airport, which however strongly advised them “not to meddle in other people’s business.”

    Later, the editors were called by one of the senior officials of the former Ministry of Income and Fees, who reported that, according to him, tonight on the orders of one of the “new leaders” of Ukraine, all the gold reserves of the Ukraine were taken to the United States.

    Indicatively, according to the latest IMF figures, Ukraine’s official gold holdings are just over 40 tons, having doubled in the past decade:


    Flown to & reloaded onto MH370 at Diego Garcia ?

  29. Katie
    22 Mar, 2014 – 10:20 am
    I dont understand your question.
    What link?

  30. BB.
    Your photo bucket link, sorry I was too eager, I thought it was to show the two Iranians.
    Do you still have the animated photo of them ?

  31. Straw

    The whole flight ? As in no take off ? Pretty damn difficult I imagine.

    At the “hand over” the turn West was made.
    He’d be finishing with one controller and calling another.
    That’s a pretty good moment to “go west”.

  32. Hello everybody, my name is Donald …. Katie has invited me to comment here, just introducing myself for now, shall get an avatar soon :-)

  33. Just some thoughts on MH 370

    It is entirely possible for the plane to have crashed over its charted course and because its ACARS system is a sealed unit, had it not been damaged, it might have continued to ping the ACK signal whilst under the shallow waters in the area until water finally got into it.

    I don’t believe the Vietnamese did a proper and professional search of their areas, their planes and choppers were Russian antiquated things and they would have been at the extreme range of their flight capabilities.

    Any signals picked up by miliary radar after the supposed disappearance does not mean it was the actual plane, Primary radar does not identify planes, it only sees them as objects in the sky and at the time the area was filled with other planes flying in all direction.

  34. Donald

    You mean the FDR(s) ?

  35. “Primary radar does not identify planes”

    Correct. What is done is, take the track the Primary radar track recorded, then “overlay” with the Secondary radar track recorded.

    You also take “all” Primary radar tracks recorded. And cross check with “all” Secondary radar tracks recorded. (and of course eliminate “known, unknowns”).

    That’ll leave one track….which should have also been “on” the Secondary track recorded (until it ended).

    However there maybe an issue already with the primary radar track recorded, which has been published. will wait and see how that turns out. It may just be the “map overlays” that have been used.

  36. No Jamie, I meant that military primary radar is not equipped to pick up the pings from either the ACARS or the Transponder, the old name for the transponder signal is IFF .. “identification Friend or Foe”

    All military radar picks up is a return signal from the metallic skin of the plane, they have no way of knowing which plane it is, only its location and usually its size.

    You can see all the planes in the area the time by clicking on this link, lots of pictures to search but you will soon understand that it was entirely possible for the military radars of Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia to not be able to tell just which plane was which


  37. Donald

    Er… yep, that’s what I just said.

    You take Secondary (civil and tagged) and compare to Primary.

  38. And it’s James ! Don !

  39. Sorry, your comment of 12:33 was not there when I began writing my reply to you

  40. Ok, James it is

  41. A story in the Times today that there was a consignment of lithium batteries in the hold implying a fire took hold. No link. Paywall.

  42. Sorry Bluebird. I see that you already said that. Thread getting too long like the al Hilli thread.

  43. Donald

    So “that” looks like the “turn back”.


  44. http://inquiringminds.cc/questions-the-media-havent-been-asking-about-flight-mh370

    “More than seven years ago, in 2006, a publication by the name of Homeland Security News Wire, whose editor in chief studied at Tel Aviv University, ran a brief story about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. In the wake of the still missing Boeing 777 aircraft, another publication ran a story, which stated in part:

    Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA (airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP – making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.

    At least one organization, Voice of Russia, bothered to interview the retired pilot, mentioned above, on this particular topic, but it is obviously not deemed to be sufficiently relevant for general public consumption, as though it were yet another taboo subject, just too “hot” to address.”

  45. Sorry
    Kenneth Sorensen
    20 Mar, 2014 – 4:30 pm. That twenty year anniversary relates to the secret Norwegian talks that lead to the much derided peace deal signed on the White House Lawn in 1993 on the 5th SEPTEMBER.

    “It called for a five-year transitional period in which Israeli forces would withdraw from occupied territories and a Palestinian Authority would be set up, leading to a permanent settlement. It was signed on the White House lawn in September 1993 in the presence of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. ”

    So to be more precise 5th September was a fortieth and nineteenth anniversary of what to many Israelis were days of calumny and treason, the former resulting in the state assassination labelled “Operation WRATH of God” with documented killings for at least the next twenty years; and the second resulted in Rabin being the only prime minister to be assassinated in 1995.

    I do not think it is rational to believe these things are irrational or co-incidental.

  46. I didn’t mention the fate of Arafat that is now surely known by everyone.

  47. Whilst on the subject of pilots, they have proved to be a confounded nuisance to those in high places in the American Administration. “Pilots for Truth” have produced much incontrovertible evidence flatly contradicting the official 9/11 story as everyone here probably knows.

    The latest appears to be new footage of just a few significant frames showing what is likely to be a cruise hitting the Pentagon and certainly not a 757 at least. Also detailed analysis of Shanksville that rules out a plane there too. (Sorry to Ben earlier I think regarding my short-hand in relation to the amended fighter engagement protocol. You are of course right to be more accurate)

    So on pilots it is not at all clear what happened to the ones flying the 9/11 planes that flew off, but did not end up where they were said to, or indeed the passengers. This is where modus is established for disappearing aircraft by the Americans. It is very suggestive in relation to MH370. Then add in BB (or was it NR’s) (sorry) reminder of the Egypian plane’s interception over the Mediterranean, plus the means to take over a 777’s controls, plus the seventh fleet with aircraft carrier and fighters in the vicinity (probably) and island bases in flying distance and no announcement for more than 5 hrs potentially allowing it to land/refuel/be out of there? and you start to have a fairly credible scenario I would say.

    The American assets, and probably only theirs, would be able to block normal communications (all the local phones went down it is reported) and a fighter on your wing is an offer a pilot has difficulty to refuse. Radar places another plane on its tail off Vietnam before both just disappear off screen!

    As always we are dependent on these sources being reliable.

    Two further little indicators pointing to Washington I would say: the State Department spokesman promoting “probably at the bottom of the ocean by now” opinion. Its such a throw away line. No aeronautics/diplomat would suggest such without reason – no least because “callous” doesn’t play well PR wise – but also you don’t pre-judge disasters until you have firm evidence. It, you will notice, and I apologise for repeating myself, replicates Eric Maillaud’s fatalistic approach at the beginning of Chevaline that the crime would never be solved.

    The second little indication of spookery was that reference to the mainstream discussion on “black holes”. Americans are highly superstitious and suggestible. A majority believe in the supernatural. There is value in introducing an element of the mysterious and occult to the mix. It confuses the the very practical issues, it deflects and distorts, and can even tar those who raise the sensible, level-headed objections. I can almost hear the Spokesman retorting “Oh I suppose your one of those nut cases who believe it went down a black hole”.

    Sorry I have digressed from the pilots. Only a couple of days ago another fell from a 12th floor 4ft balcony whilst on a Florida holiday after a 35 year career with American Airlines. Inexplicable but definitely not foul play of course.

  48. From the Al Hilli thread:

    Personally speaking, I haven’t given up on Chevaline either, though in the absence of any new developments or revelations, there is not much to say. We are clearly “second-tier” investigators. Were we able to take the role of journalists (of the old school) or even police detectives things might be different. Unfortunately as we have noted many times, the former largely act as as channels for whatever is put out by official sources (did you notice the repetition of that term “credible evidence” that kept cropping up re. MH370 possible debris that I believe results from orchestration) and the latter is firmly under political/security services control.

    Rank and secrecy are such fundamental characteristics of British policing, and so much depending on them in pay and pension, that “toeing the line” is integral to quasi-military set up. From Constable to Chief Constable and if he or she know what’s good for them, through Special Branch and MI5 in the Home Office.

    There is still the big question hanging? What has that huge British investigation discovered and when will it be revealed? Only Parliament has the necessary tools to enquire if our “free press” is unable or unwilling so to do. Isn’t it time questions were asked of the Home Secretary in the House? Perhaps it is time a public petition was organised?

    “In my book”, the only rational explanation for the total silence from the British side (apart from seeded disinformation) can be matters of national security. However to admit such would obviously beg the question and prove collusion and cover up at least on the French side, and by implication the British side also.

    So we have this state of scarcely believable theatre and we know all theatre is merely illusion to portray or protect greater truths. It certainly seems we have repeat performance in MH370, a plan perhaps frustrated only by a little oversight on the part of the planners – a “bleeping” transmitter in the “bleeping” tail, which the “bleeping” British chose not to keep “beeping” quiet about!

    So in this regard I thought an event from the past illustrates some of the issues we have seen here. The way the British Government works at least. How Parliamentary procedures are by passed when it comes to matters of state security. How figures in the opposition are made to toe the line so that they don’t. How Special Branch is employed to enforce. How the BBC is coerced.

    These events link Chevaline, “Zircon” spy satellites, and secret accounting 25 or more years ago. It is old hat when it was still possible to walk up Downing Street without a semi-automatic or gate in sight, so it would naive to things were now much different or better. It is what makes that “Panorama investigation” so significant as a window into British Government thinking and strategy.

    If you don’t have time to look at all these references, just look at the last which in some ways brings it altogether.









    TopSat (Tactical Operational Satellite) is an Earth observation satellite that was launched on October 27, 2005 alongside the Beijing-1 Disaster Monitoring Constellation satellite by a Cosmos rocket from Plesetsk Cosmodrome in Russia. TopSat carries out imaging with a ground resolution of 2.5m. Much smaller and cheaper than other imaging satellites of similar high resolution, TopSat has been used to demonstrate the feasibility of providing images on demand to portable groundstations, such as might be deployed by the military or by disaster relief organisations.



    TopSat was built in the United Kingdom by Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd, QinetiQ and The Rutherford Appleton Laboratory under the British National Space Centre Mosaic programme. The MOD was the largest single contibutor to the program.

    The TopSat program was highly successful technology demonstrator able to return decent imagery for a knock down price of just £15 million. It was hoped that the UK would be able to build a constellation of these satellites however with present budget cuts the appetite for this seems to have diminished.”

  49. “From the Al Hilli thread”

    Rolls eyes and wonders why the hell he is posting his bizarre rant here !

  50. Worth to consider a similar event with malaysia airlines boeing 777-200, approx 9 years ago ….


    2005 In-flight upset; Boeing 777-200, Malaysian Airlines 9M-MRG,
    240 km NW Perth, WA

    The PFD airspeed display then indicated that the aircraft was approaching the overspeed limit and the stall speed limit simultaneously. 

    The aircraft pitched up and climbed to approximately FL410 and the indicated airspeed decreased from 270 kts to 158 kts. 

    The stall warning and stick shaker devices also activated. The aircraft returned to Perth where an uneventful landing was completed.

    It looks as if the computers were taken over and therefore received wrong data for a short period of time that caused the plane to pitch up to FL440.

    A similar event (dangerous pitch up) took place in 2005 with Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 on a flight from perth to kuala lumpur when the computer received wrong data.I don’t know whether or not this was the same airplane or just a “sisterplane”.   

  51. The 9M-MRG Boeing 777-200 event flight data (the missing plane is 9M-MRO)
    Tech report is probably interesting for james.
    Graphic animation included.


  52. This was very interesting, and careful researched stuff, Tim – in the spirit of Christopher Bollyn. Thanks for that.

    I particularly found your info about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. (BUAP) VERY interesting:

    In the wake of the still missing Boeing 777 aircraft, another publication ran a story, which stated in part:

    Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA (airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP – making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.

    So that explains the crash south of Australia, then It was on auto-pilot, and nobody could manually control it and it ran out of fuel. Is that the lesson you draw from this, too?

    I will definitely be on the look out for news from “Pilots for Truth”, because they are – as you said — generally a very sturdy and reliable bunch. I remember the morning of 9/11, a [Swedish] pilot brought into the studio on Swedish Television, saying that the very elaborate “Swing” which the second plane made prior to crashing in, clearly was the work of a professional pilot.

    I saw Bollyn talking about that both planes that hit WTC entered “computer-rooms”, one of them belonging to the insurance company AIG (The one that was bailed out by the government in the wake of the financial crisis) which “had been locked off for months” and witnesses have seen heavy “batteries” been brought in, literally filling up the whole floor space. So presumably whatever those “batteries” consisted of, they were meant to enhance the effect of the exploding aircraft. But do we know how the aircraft were avle to enter these specific rooms? Which signalling system in the rooms where communicating with the aircraft so that they could enter precisely there. Was it laser-based, or what do you think?

  53. No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.

  54. In connection with the “batteries” that was brought in to the rooms, where the planes crashed in, they could in reality just consist of ….lead. Now we’re back with what I’ve always thought about the collapse of the Towers. I’ve always thought that the aircraft scraped of the fire-insulating from the steel-beams (but of couse there is a problem: Could they just scrape of all the protection) and the fire from the explodong jet-fuel weakened the iron, and the weight of the floors above made the steel cave in, and the weight just increased with each collapsing floor all the way to the bottom. But of course: If you prior to the event deliberately have brought additional weight into the building – perhaps as much as to almost hazard the structure of the floor, this would certainly ensure that the towers easier collapsed, and that they went down symmetrically, straight to the bottom.

  55. This — relatively — simple explanation will also jettison out the “thermite” from the equation,- something I’ve never comed round to believe in. Whyh: Because its reasonably far-fetched in an already complex operation. Why not keep it simple; if additional weight brought in over (How about that!) the rooms where the planes crashed in, this would result in a speedier collapse.

  56. Blue

    Interesting report.
    That’s called “a bad day at the office”.
    And they had a windshear alert on their approach into Perth !

  57. @Kenneth Sorensen 23 Mar, 2014 – 4:42 am
    “No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.”

    Remember the guided bomb that found the map room of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. However that was done, nobody believed the lame story of US/NATO mistakenly using old maps. One theory is it was a special GPS guided bomb flown on a non-stop plane from the US. Some say Clinton ordered the strike, while others say it was done independently by the military who discovered the Chinese spying on their stealth aircraft.

    “While America Slept — How the United States botched China’s rise. FEBRUARY 27, 2013: In May 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, a U.S. plane bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. America apologized, but no Chinese leader believed it was a mistake.”

    It isn’t that much removed from GPS guided bombs and missiles to using an airliner.

  58. Interesting, NR, and I will certainly be reading that Foreign Policy. But to hit a specific floor using GPS? This is in my opinion not reliable. Good all fashioned radiobeems broadcast out from the room, and the plane honing in on it, is fool-proof. And remember they really, really wanted the planes to hit just these rooms.

  59. Blue

    What “concerns” me is the fact this aircraft “appears” to have been “flown”.
    A lot of pilots are saying “don’t crucify the crew” until the facts are known.
    And they are right. However….

    There “appears” to be a turn West executed.
    It was executed at an FIR handover (the point of most confusion).
    Transponders, ACARS and Radio Comms ceased at that point.

    The only tracking available is by Primary Radar.
    Further limited tracking was via the SATCOM equipment (ON/RUN not ON/OFF).

    The a/c appears to have flown “around” Northern Indonesia.
    The a/c appears to have flown a heading of 182 degrees.
    The a/c appears to have ceased fly between 07.11 and 08.11

    The a/c appears to have crashed (due to fuel starvation) in the most remotest and deepest parts of the ocean and is “potentially unrecoverable”.

    The a/c appears to be “under control” after it ceased to communicate for approx 756NM (1hr 30mins)MIN to 1105NM (2hrs 15mins) MAX.
    That is “way (WAY) outside” any known time limits at that altitude.

    At the FIR (and takeover) the pilot must be in a position to subdue the other pilot and take control “at the precise moment”.
    Once in control he did not crash the a/c immediately but waited between the times indicated above…or considerably longer to execute his deed.
    His attitude would need to be…
    1) See how clever I am.
    2) You’ll never find this aircraft.
    That attitude would have “likely” have been foreseen previously.


    A note on Primary Radar.
    There’s little point in having it, unless you can “do something” with it.
    So an Air Defence capability or Interceptor Squadron.
    Not “up on” modern fighters, but I assume that with external tanks the range of an interceptor (F16) is about 1,500NM. Enough to “prowl”. And that’s it.
    But that’s all that would be needed.
    Soon enough, DH307 (untagged) is on it’s merry way South.

    I would like to know the “Jump Seat” policy at MAS. Some companies (and countries) are very “lax” about these things. Not only taking “company” deadheaders, but sometimes “anyone”.
    But “that” scenario puts us back with “Pilot (if it was a pilot) Suicide”.
    And at the moment, I struggle to buy into that.

  60. Flight Plan at SkyVector.com

  61. @Bluebird
    Pearl Harbor was planned for a Sunday morning and the 1973 Arab–Israeli War started on Yom Kippur.

    If diversion of MH370 was an intentional act did the perpetrators use late Saturday night and early Sunday morning to gain an advantage in evading ATC and military radar in some country along the escape route?

    What countries in the area have their weekends — day or days off — on Sat/Sun or Sun/Mon. For example, in the West where Saturday is partyday and Sunday is a day of rest/recovery staffing is minimal and officers hard to locate.

    The Philippines is obvious. Any others? World calendar lists only “Baron Bliss Day — Belize” for 9 Mar. Not enough fuel to reach there. :)

  62. Field McConnell !

    He’s the bloke that writes to Putin and starts.

    “Dear Brother in Christ Vladimir Putin…..”


    “I further offer to work with Sukhoi and Russiato expose the technologies that enabled the destruction of the Sukhoi Superjet”.

    A real “fruit” that one. “Nurse…. get the restraints”

  63. Malaysia reveals that the pilot received a phone call a few hours before departure from a fake number. The mobile phone SIM card of the caller had been purchased by using a stolen passport of a woman.
    Another stolen passport ……

  64. Read that and you’ll notice that it is strictly impossible that the 777 could pass that area unnoticed and without immediate reply by indian airforces. IMPOSSIBLE!
    They are liars!



    The placid waters of the Andaman Sea belie the 24×7 threat perception that churns these waters literally on a daily basis. A war in the conventional sense might be a remote possibility, but that does not mean that the Indian Armed Forces do not prepare for any eventuality. Threat perceptions take into account a battle for the control of these waters.

  65. Dejavu Chevaline. Lies by A, refuted by B, other lies by B, refuted by A, truth by B, refuted by A, truth by A, refuted by B, lies by A, refuted by B, …… keep on turning the wheel …..


    KUALA LUMPUR – Police have refuted claims by a foreign tabloid that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah received a call from a phone number registered with a dubious identity just before he flew Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 on March 8.

  66. Claim and counter claim !

    Going back to the “India question”.
    When the search of the Southern Indian Ocean began, China requested that it sends two (or maybe three) navy ships to the Andaman Island area….

    ….India politely refused !

    No idea what to make of that. China wanting a “poke around” ?

  67. Oh, here comes the justification for NSA/GCHQ snooping ..

    “02.50 The Sunday Times (££) has an interesting line, saying police have seized the bank statements, credit card bills, mortgage documents and other personal financial records of all 12 crew members of flight MH370.

    Sources in Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, said the criminal investigation into the disappearance of the plane is focusing on talk of domestic troubles for the captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and high spending by Fariq Hamid, 27, the first officer.

    The investigators have also obtained all the mobile and home phone records of the crew as well as details of their computer use and internet habits, according to police sources and people close to the families of the crew members.

    Working with foreign intelligence agencies, they are searching for evidence that any of the crew could have been subject to psychological or financial pressure.”


  68. Mochyn69

    If (IF) that is the case (and I think “suicide” is likely) they (someone) with knowledge of flight and systems (specific to the 777) would have had to….

    1. Wait to the “precise” moment of ATC transfer.
    2. Have previously incapacitated the other member(s) of the flight deck.
    3. Pull the breakers on “comms”
    4. Turned West….and waited.
    5. Flown around Indonesia
    6. Taken a heading to the first 182 degrees heading waypoint
    7. Set NAV for 182 heading
    8. a) Killed everyone onboard (and likely himself)
    8. b) Sat and waited for 5/6 hours as everyone banged on the cockpit door.


    Wait until his colleague goes to the toilet…. point the nose down and throttle up (and keep pressure firmly on the column) and see if you can hit the sea BEFORE you start to break up !

    The “first option” I take as “most likely” BUT (a BIG “but”) it’s a bit “long in the tooth” for my liking.

  69. Wonder what India (Campbell Bay) actually saw ?

  70. Kenneth Sorensen
    23 Mar, 2014 – 4:39 am I’m glad you liked my little discussion or “rant” as James kindly describes it. Clearly what is meat for one is foul for another. I wonder why? I have seen some early contributions from “James”. He seems a reformed character these days.

    My aim, if aim there was, to show how with time the issue of satellite detection has become a hot political potato, that is also used as a bargaining chip as with Britain contributing hundreds of millions to American assets so that it can get access, whilst not being wholly comfortable with the dependence. Falklands was the warning bell that encouraged “Zircon”. It can’t quite go it alone but it is moving that way.

    Zircon as you probably saw, was the second time big expenditure was with-held from the Commons watchdog. The first was Chevaline – upgrading with multiple warheads the Polaris missile – in complete secrecy. So rather neatly Chevaline the missile is linked to Chevaline the massacre. Why? Because apart from obvious vocabulary, the direct descendent of Zircon, abandoned on cost grounds, is the latest generation of “Topsat” from 2005 onwards.

    It is Topsat that connects in to Saad al Hilli through both the Rutherford Laboratory and SSST for which he worked. Qinetiq (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq) incorporates multiple links to the US through the Carlyle Group and takeovers. It even had CIA Director George Tenet on the board between 2006 and 8! The firm has had significant security, hacking and personnel issues. Its operating bases were amazingly close to SAH’s at one time, although there is no overt direct link except through SSST.

    So now the link with MH370. A topsat satellite gets the “pings” for 5 hrs plus after last radar contact. All those Freescale employees off to China. Is it a CIA imperative to prevent satellite technology getting into “enemy” hands. You bet your bottom dollar it is. Apparently SAH had much more computer work info. than he should have. Yet the laptops were not taken? The only explanation if this was the object of the exercise, is that the attackers were satisfied information could no longer be transferred.

    Now we hear (ty BB) B777 had strange problems twice previously whilst coincidentally on the QL route. And that the plane from 2007 had fail-safe anti hi jack but conversely subject to external military over-ride. And that the “crashed into the sea” explanation might have worked were it not for the “pings” and the “military radar”.

    Could it be a CIA operation? First if it wasn’t hi jack or suicide, and there’s nothing it appears to support either, then State involvement becomes more likely, and of the possible states, the US most likely on the basis of both capability and motivation. It also has clear previous both on black ops, using aircraft to transfer kidnapped individuals and of intercepting civil aircraft. It also can furnish similar cases of aircraft that ostensibly disappear over its own territory. Nor is it averse, it has proved averse, if it considers it necessary to sacrifice innocent civilians in aerial attacks in Europe in the 80’s and elsewhere since with its drones. 9/11 proved it was capable of literally anything, even against its own.

    Globally it is arguably the most advanced in drone and intercept technology. The US Government has intimate connections and control over its main aircraft manufacturers, including Boeing. It has Indian Ocean assets to which a plane could be flown. It has a large naval presence in the Indian and Pacific Oceans with fighter and awacs.

    From a strategic point of view China and Russia are holding hands and form a formidable and only opposition to American/Israeli plans in the middle east (Syria/Iran) and eastern Europe (Ukraine). It must therefore be of primary importance to limit the ability of both to control and utilize space. Particularly when military conflict is becoming increasing likely. (Syrian fighter shot down over Turkey today, military manoeuvres on the Russian?Ukrainian border!)

    In respect of wreckage photos, and in search, it is noticeable the US appears to have taken a “back seat”. The satellite photos are apparently provided by Australian, French and Chinese equipment NOT US although it must have the means. Further it was reported the US had actively WITH-HELD the information/intelligence that was available to them. They have released no radar information from Garcia that must have registered if a large plane had flown that abnormal route.

    Then there are the anomalous sightings and events: the two security men from the Maersk Alabama and its cargo. The removal of Ukrainian gold by plane to the US. Reports of low-flying civil aircraft over Pacific Islands. The announcement of a passenger plane with fighter escort on the eastern seaboard of the united states all in a corresponding timeframe.

    All this and a satellite/aircraft related killing in Chevaline that neither the French or the British are prepared to unravel because of the international ramifications and I think you have a pretty strong circumstantial case that this was a CIA organised black op. But then, as James will no doubt tell me in no uncertain terms, what do I know?

  71. or fowl even! (oh dear slip of the brain)

  72. mean mister mustard

    24 Mar, 2014 - 1:47 am

    “If (IF) that is the case (and I think “suicide” is likely) they (someone) with knowledge of flight and systems (specific to the 777) would have had to….

    1. Wait to the “precise” moment of ATC transfer.
    2. Have previously incapacitated the other member(s) of the flight deck.
    3. Pull the breakers on “comms”
    4. Turned West….and waited.
    5. Flown around Indonesia
    6. Taken a heading to the first 182 degrees heading waypoint
    7. Set NAV for 182 heading
    8. a) Killed everyone onboard (and likely himself)
    8. b) Sat and waited for 5/6 hours as everyone banged on the cockpit door.


    Wait until his colleague goes to the toilet…. point the nose down and throttle up (and keep pressure firmly on the column) and see if you can hit the sea BEFORE you start to break up !

    The “first option” I take as “most likely” BUT (a BIG “but”) it’s a bit “long in the tooth” for my liking.”

    Your posts have the aroma of misdirection. Why is it you don’t seem to have the courage of your convictions?–Maybe. perhaps, it’s possible…….

    JTRIG? Take a definitive stand instead of suggesting………….

  73. mean mister mustard

    24 Mar, 2014 - 2:02 am

  74. james @ march 23 7:53am

    I looked at the link you gave – it’s really interesting. Are you saying the plane made that 182 deg turn south as the chart shows? how was this calculated/ based on the pings alone? can you say who the source is?

    I liked the many airports and waypoints indicated on this map. Interestingly it looks like before that sudden turn the plane was on direct course to Diego garcia, allowing it to pass over the Maldives at about the time the islanders said they saw a low lying plane (no matter it was officially waved off – lots of things were “officially” discounted on this case).

    If the map you show of the plane’s course is true (and I haven’t seen that elsewhere) then it indicates that whoever the pilot was had complete control of the plane at that point, blowing out of the water the hypoxia hypothsis and/or the electrical fire theory from the Wire.

    Your thoughts will be appreciated.

  75. I have another concern here – we all seem to take the inmarsat “ping” data as absolute truth. maybe that is true but why are we so willing to assume that the release of this data – in whole or in part – is not part of whatever it is that could have happened to the plane.

    I am suspicious because for the same reasons other people find the sudden diversion of the search from the South China seas a bit, well, questionable. That on top of the fact that as Tim V pointed out above (I think that’s who did or was it katie?) the malaysian airline waited a rather long time before announcing the plane was missing. Then waited again quite some time before releasing/sharing the Inmarsat satellite data.

    james @7;49am laid some of the facts out rather well. We are all left scratching collective heads, but if anything jumps out about the handling of the plane’s disappearance, it’s the confusion of it all. It is only fair to ask whether the confusion from the malaysian side is due to lack of experience, incompetence or something else?

    I think we should bear in mind that the british SAT data is ALL we have to indicate a journey to the far south seas. As proper online detectives it behooves us to also examine possibilities that do not require full reliance on those data.

    Without those data the scenarios must include the possibility of the plane being shot out of the sky by some military force or another. naturally, if that happened there would be a major effort by almost all the governments involved to deflect attention from that. This could still be an attempted hijacking including the turn westward presumably indicated by malysian military radars but if there was a swift military reaction, resulting in loss of life and craft, well, I can see why this would be something no one wants to disclose. Which would explain a few things (but not all!).

    I know there are other scenarios – such as – if we don’t believe the pings, may be some were true and some not – in which case the plane flies on to Diego Garcia, for example, while all the kings’ horses and all the kings’ men keep searching the south Indian oceans for morsels.

    My hope is that, if they don’t find any debris that can be conclusively traced to MH370, the mystery of the disappeared flight will become quite unbearable. In which case a cover-up of what really happened is bound to show some cracks.

  76. Marlin

    I don’t know if the aircraft took a 182 heading. I took two “ideas” and looked at how this could be “played out”.

    The two ideas were “North around Indonesia” and “approx 1200nm off Perth”.

    Whilst there are waypoints back from the current search position (along 182) that are used by traffic heading across the Southern Indian Ocean, there is no waypoint further south.

    A couple of issues.

    As the aircraft flies south (along 182) it would have to be in Track Mode along that GPS heading. I have no idea of the winds there that night, but a crosswind would push the aircraft “off track” which would be “corrected” by the autopilot.It wouldn’t be a “true” courses. And the “pings” may appear to show a different heading (maybe why the arc was show with a large “error” allowed” (?).

    You say this blows the hypoxia theory out of the window.
    That seems to be true. (although aviation can be sometimes bizarre !).

    BlueBird also pointed out the Indian Air Force based at Campbell Bay (INS Baaz). As far as I am aware no information has been given by them.
    Surely a Naval base with airborne reconnaissance capabilities would have Primary radar….and would have “noted” this aircraft passing “close by” ?

    Add in the fact that a “fire onboard” would mean an instant divert AND the plane would undoubtedly ceased to exist 6 hours later and you’re left with a confusing mystery.

    No hypoxia, no fire and a pilot navigating a planned route leads only to pilot suicide.

    But a 6 hour wait for a suicide ? Baffled.

  77. Bad series for malaysian airlines. Today it was an A330 airbus.
    Is Ali al Hilli currently working for malaysian airlines after he left qantas as technical manager after those qantas accidents?


  78. I am puzzled, am I?


    Completed High school in the UK, Tertiary in UK (Air Service Training/Perth College) and started work in the Middle-east in 1977 as a Graduate Engineer. Served 15 years in Middle East, North African, Asia and European Operations. Established home in Australia in 1992, worked at Aerospace Technologies of Australia for 4 years,

    joined Malaysian Airline in 1998

    and joined Qantas Engineering in 2001. Extensive Lead and management experience in all departments of Engineering including Line Maintenance, Heavy Maintenance, Maintenance Control, Outstation, Customer Support, Production/Planning and Projects. Participated in Leadership development, coaching, Lean, People, Organisational Structuring and Technical Courses at QE and other Tertiary organisations. Aspire to Lead and influence change, promote and innovate the business, to lead and be involved in strategy and future vision.


  79. Breaking News…………………that’s become a bit of a joke lately.

    But there really is news this morning. Apparently the Chinese ‘have’ seen new debris ,not via satellite but from planes , eyes on, in roughly the area where searching is going on.

    Source, Sky news.

    James, don’t be too hard on Donald, he’s in Australia so hence the familiar use of your name, but I thought he could add some useful help here. ;-)

  80. Blue

    And all Boeing also.

  81. Katie…

    Get him adding some stuff.
    I was only pointing out that you compare what you have on Secondary to what you see on Primary. And the one “remaining”, is your track.
    For Example, 20 on Sec and 20 on Prim. Goes to 19 on Sec and 20 on Prim.

    And I had to laugh at your “Breaking News”.
    It’s normally followed by some craziness from the resident loony !

    Bring by Donald (as long as he doesn’t call me “Jamie” (sounds like I work for “Easy Jet” !).

  82. Boeing at Satellites.
    Hmmmmmm ! Been here before.

    I would hazard a guess that whatever has happened to MH307, it’s been in the planning for a couple of years.It’s not a spur of the moment thing.

  83. Some most recent background on the growing Sunni-Shia conflict in malaysia and the Iranian-Malaysian conflict growing.

    Although opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim denies to have Shia roots, he admits to be a follower of Ayatollah Khomeini and that he supported the iranian revolution.
    There are rumours that the pilot of MH370 is from an iranian family and that he is a supporter of Anwar Ibrahim.
    Most recently malaysian Petronas lost billions due to the iranians sanctioning malaysia because of their aggressive anti shia politics.

    Now mix the pilot, ali al hilli and anwar ibrahim into an iranian conspiracy plot versus the malaysian government and malaysian airlines in order to weaken the malaysian anti shia government….
    Does it make sense?






  84. Thanks james

    That is about what malaysian media write regarding ibrahim.
    A pro iranian sunni who is moderate in regards to shia views while he is critical of america and zionism and often ranting the usa. The latter we had often heard regarding the al hillis.
    Better moving that into the al hilli topic???

    However, many international crimes do always fit together and point backwards towards the same people, same families and same companies.

  85. James, In reply to your 7:50 comment, I had just finished replying to a “Jamie” on an another site, guess it stuck, sorry.


    I have questions pertaining a theory I am developing, could use some help. I need to find out if there is any way to find out if the two Iranians traveling on the plane had gone to Africa in the days previous to the plane’s disappearance, also if their middle man, a Mr Ali, had traveled to Africa prior to handing over the passports to the two young me. Also if any of the passengers had traveled to Africa.

    I also tried to find out if the plane itself had been to Africa in the same period of time …

    Nothing longer than a week prior. 7 days at the most

    Can anybody help me, please ?

  86. Just some more info, I already found out that the two young Iranians had traveled to Malaysia from Qatar, not from Iran as many think, I am wondering if perhaps they first went to Africa and then Qatar or if Mr Ali had met them in Qatar after he himself had returned from Africa (should that be the case)

    Perhaps maybe the passports were altered in Africa, say Nigeria for example.

  87. Actually Donald,there could be something in that, do you remember the first description of those guys….they were said to be African & one looked Bolettli [ or similar] the footballer who is black black, now how can the ones we were finally shown be described as such ?

  88. Actually, that is true, I believe that one of the officials said one of the young men looked like some black sports person, but that is not what I am after.

    I want to find out if there is any link whatsoever between the plane, the passengers, the cargo, or Mr Ali .. and Africa.

  89. Donald

    If you check out flightradar24, click on the database.
    From there enter the tail.
    And it’ll give you the history (back a few days only).

  90. James, thank you, I did that but it tells me that all previous flight history for 9M-MRO is not in the database, the message reads:

    “….Sorry, but we could not find flights for specified aircraft in our databases…..:


    I eventually found the link below but there is no information about the planes whereabouts between 7th of March this year and October last year


    I want to know where everybody was in the last 7 days prior to the plane’s disappearance, including the cargo, and yes, I know it is difficult.

    I do have a good theory, but I don’t want to look like an idiot just yet, I need a bit more info before I make a fool of myself and post it :-)

  91. Is the public being played for fools by Abbott and his multi-national aerial and marine search?

  92. I also found out that the flight was to last 5 1/2 hours, adding 2 hours of extra fuel that gave it 7 1/2 hours flying time, but the twists and turns it supposedly took before it headed South and down into the Indian Ocean means it would have lost some 3 hours worth of fuel before it began the journey South. So it could only have flown for 4 1/2 hours meaning it wouldn’t have made it too far down, certainly not the Maldives


    Not being a pilot I suppose some here already know this.

  93. Mary, all I can tell you is that Diego Garcia and Jindalle are part of the nuclear tracking radar network, the most advanced in the world, nothing gets past them, certainly not a giant plane with no transponder switched on. That is impossible.

    And I can’t for the life of me believe that Diego Garcia which is where America’s B52 fleet is based did not detect the plane before it came anywhere near them or if it did, that it did not send interceptors after it.

  94. I don’t know about that Mary, but I do wonder why an aircraft carrier has not gone to search the area,surely that would have saved all this flying to & from to refuel in Perth ?

  95. Donald

    It depends on the power settings (and alt).
    At “cruise” you’re higher and not at full throttles.
    The alternates dictates fuel (and holds). MAS were fined some years ago for declaring a “mayday” when diverted. Their fuel (if stated correctly) seems to be okay.

    As for reaching where it appears to have reached. Again depends on Alt.
    And we don’t know OR may never know (FDR unrecoverable) what that was.

  96. Katie. Me neither, perhaps the whole thing is some sort of diversion? something to keep our minds occupied and not consider other possibilities?

    Are there no carriers or other naval ships in the Indian Ocean already, that’s odd, imagine America and Australia leaving that part of the world unsecured.

  97. James – I’ll take your word for it, I just don’t know, crikey, I’m always running out of fuel in my car because I forget to fill it up.

    All I did was to print a map with the plane’s assumed flight path then used a string to measure the length of travel .. then I stretched the string towards China and it put me somewhere between the Vietnam/China border.

    A silly way of doing it but I knew no other way.

    As for height, I believe planes use a lot of fuel in climbing to altitude then it climbed higher to 44,000 feet then it dove to 29,000 then it lowered again to 19,000 then and then according to all the reports it flew below radar altitude… up and down all over the place, surely that must waste fuel.

    Truth is I’m not too good on this fuel consumption thing

  98. Donald

    Take Off Weight V Take Off Max. How much fuel was tankered. MAS aren’t doing so well and they may get cheaper fuel at KUL. So you take some with you for the return.

    No idea of the SOPs at MAS, but it’s a possibility. (and speculation).

  99. Jamie. all the news, reports and articles I read so far say that the plane was carrying between 7 and 7 1/2 hours worth of fuel

  100. Stop the Jamie thing !

    And that’s about right (I guess).
    Not sure what the “official” MAS line actually is.
    I think it is “to get to Beijing plus reserves”.

  101. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Israel closes all foreign offices !!!!!!!!!!

    http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/is-something-huge-is-about-to-happen.html Watch out people.

  102. Hey up !

    They’ve all called press conferences & the Malaysian airlines too have called all family members together…this is it folks….switch on your TV’s,I’m listening to Sky.

  103. James .. sorry, again I have “Jamie” on the other blog, please don’t take it too personal, he’s an old fellow and Katie and I usually frequent his blog, hard to get out of the habit, I’ll try harder :-)

    (not that I’m saying you too are an old fellow …ah, dah, never mind)

    KATIE!!! help

  104. Poor you Donald, yes Jamie the old codger is someone I’m trying to get away from !

    It’s a genuine error James, we are talking about someone on the Telegraph blog……..no offence intended I’m sure of that.

    So what are we waiting for a body has been found or just debris from the plane ?

  105. Israel has closed all its embassies due to a diplomatic work strike by the foreign ministry, mind you it could be a ploy, America has also closed all its embassies in Africa when it suspected a terrorist strike might be about to take place

  106. Katie…

    No idea. Just put on the news (bit of buffering, but clear now) have I heard it right.

    The (all) the relatives are being taken to Oz ?

  107. One hour ago they reported finding some coloured flotsam, who knows.


    Personally I doubt it.

  108. Very odd.

    What’s this…. Press Conf by Aussie PM at 14.00 GMT (01.00 Sydney) ?

    They are saying “new developments”.

  109. James, yes they are being taken to OZ.
    So clearly there’s a definite find.
    Press conference due at 2pm UK time.

    James,why don’t you get yourself an avatar,that way it will be easier to identify you ?

  110. Ah !

    Must be 10pm Perth.
    Think the last aircraft landed half an hour ago.

  111. Katie…

    A white man against a grey background is my avatar.
    Everyone seems to have nicked my idea !

    How do you get an avatar ??

  112. Tim,you would have been better to quote the official news not some cranks biased opinion.

    “(Reuters) – Israeli diplomats launched an unprecedented strike on Sunday, forcing the complete closure of embassies around the world as they escalated a dispute over pay, officials said.

    The industrial action has already threatened to postpone a visit by Pope Francis to Israel planned for May – one of 25 trips by foreign officials affected by a work slowdown the diplomats began on March 5 when wage talks broke down.

    By escalating the action to a full strike – the first by the diplomatic corps since the country’s establishment in 1948 – the diplomats will close all of Israel’s 102 missions abroad, paralysing most diplomatic work with other countries and the United Nations.”


  113. James – That conference was for the PM to announce that China had found new objects that “might” be related, one hour ago they announced that they had located the objects, no further news yet.

    Meanwhile in Malaysia, 3 hours ago the relatives were herded together and moved … to make way for the Formula 1 races


  114. You go here James, http://en.gravatar.com

    You can have as many as you like, but the photo you choose for each email address will be the one which shows when you sign in with that email add.

  115. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 8:29 am – re. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2519 interesting source:

    A “Moderate Muslim” – Anwar Ibrahim
    by DR. RACHEL EHRENFELD November 24, 2010

    FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld is the Director of the New York-based American Center for Democracy. She is an expert on terrorism and corruption-related topics such as terror financing and narco-terrorism. She has helped to change New York state law, when the Libel Terrorism Protection Act (pdf) was passed. Similar laws have been passed in other U.S. states, and a federal law known as the SPEECH ACT which is due to be signed, follows the same principle – that First Amendment guarantees should protect authors and publishers against foreign libel judgments from countries with poor free speech protections.

    Read more: Family Security Matters http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.7990/pub_detail.asp#ixzz2wt5TKJWm
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

  116. 4 minutes ago – Flares have been dropped to mark the objects found in the ocean, the Aussie navy will reach them in about two hours.

    But I looked, the objects must be small because I can see the surface of the water and there is nothing there except the smoke from the flare, in fact I can’t see nothing else

  117. Malaysian Prime Minister to give Press Conference.
    It’s all this “the prime minister of xxxxxxasia” that’s confusing.

  118. Planes are being chartered in preparation to fly relatives to OZ, poor souls ,what a miserable journey that’s going to be. No passengers have survived.

    10 mins to go before announcement.

  119. Dreadful.

  120. Katie, it has to be a hoax, even 25 minutes ago they still didn’t know what the objects were and the ship dispatched to retrieve and examine them will not reach them for 2 more hours yet.


  121. Whaaaaat ?

    Donald I think you are right, all he’s saying is that they will hold a conference tomorrow !

  122. Extraordinary.

    AAIB (UK), using Inmarsat data, calculates that the aircraft crashed into the Southern Indian Ocean.

  123. And the award for most useless press conference goes to………

  124. James, I think you are right about the conference, all it does is to raise the relatives hopes and nothing else.

    I’m off, big storm here and I’ve lost most of my satellite links, I could use a good sleep anyway, back tomorrow.

    PS: My two theories still stand, plane lost near Vietnam or a terrorist plot that originated in Africa. Although I believe the plane crashing near or in Vietnam is the right one

    Shall see tomorrow when I do a better search of the facts. Good night

  125. That hastily convened conference was all about the Malaysians not wanting to lose control !

    The Chinese had found something positive & the Australians also came back with news…still withheld.
    So Once again the Malaysians are not being honest but hanging onto that information until tomorrow. Why ?

  126. Mary
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:52 am as Official Resident “Loony” (thank you yet again clever James) and so speaking as an expert, I can state unequivocally the answer to your question is “Yes”.

    As has been pointed out many times an aircraft “falling” or descending from 35K leaves a distinctive radar trace. We are told this didn’t happen in this case, but that radar contact was simply lost and the plane “disappeared”. If reliable this would offer only two explanations, other than it being out of radar range which has not been suggested, which is the plane exploded and disintegrated at its cruising height or radar coverage was otherwise interfered with which is possible but only with highly sophisticated military assets.

    Clearly Malaysian authorities either believed the plane had ditched off Vietnam, or wanted everyone to believe it had ditched there, or they wouldn’t have initiated extensive search at that location and maintained it for several days. The absence of any sea debris supported the later story.

    So now the question is at what point and why did they change their opinion that the plane had not crashed there, and critically did they maintain their earlier opinion even when in possession of information that the plane had survived and “merely” changed course?

    It may be assumed, even by fools such as me, that a plane on a totally unscheduled route, carrying out crazy manoeuvres (up to 35K; climb to 45K; roughly a 270 degree change in direction; dropping to 5K; then a further 270 degree change north or south) to name but a few, would attract attention, particularly when said MH370 had broken all the rules and turned off coms and transponder. From that point everyone civil and military would be “on their toes”, looking for it.

    Two days elapse before the information available to the state is made available to the public, and area of search is moved. Of course the new search would only be any good if the plane had ditched, but as it had survived the first alleged catastrophic incident this had become far less likely, and there was no hard evidence to support it. Indeed quite the opposite: the Seychelles sighting and satellite “pings” pointed to it still being up at least FIVE HOURS after it was said to have “disappeared”.

    Clearly this presents a major difficulty for who ever was in charge of the thing – terrorist or state – because they now have two options. Either they question the reliability of the “pings” as indicator of plane’s survival or they have to invent a different ditch scenario. Because of the time-frame this has to be in some remote area.

    It amuses me that the experienced pilot “James”, so full of technical jargon and know-how, presumably to impress the gullible like me, goes along so easily with a course off Australia. The alternative north west would have taken it over land masses and radar of the countries involved and with no trace it has to be ruled out doesn’t it? So the barren wastes of the southern ocean it has to be then with not a snowball chance in hell of anything being found. Problem solved!

    He seems to believe a suicide mission is the most likely. Have you ever heard of a suicide taking so long without a gesture, without a statement or demand. The idea is quite preposterous. As he says if this was merely a death dive by the captain why all the complicated survival anti-detection flying and for so long?

    So back to the initial conundrum of who took control of the plane and how. To do all that highly strange manoeuvring the auto pilot would have to have been disengaged for sure. This would either require sophisticated piloting or sophisticated computer takeover not to mention the inbuilt systems we have discussed to prevent it.

    If the former, it rules out any hypothesis of pilots physically or mentally disabled in any way. They would have to be top of their game throughout. If they were in control it indicates malign intent or why would they not have raised the alarm? Or were they following pre-planned instructions imposed by government diktat? Neither of these seems likely.

    So by a process of elimination, however unlikely it seems, the remaining option becomes the only alternative, and also by extension that the search in the Southern Ocean is similarly a waste of time and money. Needless to say all news outlets concentrate on it, and merely replicate the official output, without a question or challenge. This uses up time, always helpful as other news events eventually take over top spot, and distracts attention from more sensible and searching questions. It is what we have come to expect isn’t it?

  127. Tim V’s comment and the one following are relevant in the light of the Malaysian PM’s statement today. Details of Inmarsat.


    Is there the smell of rotten fish in the air???

  128. @Donald
    24 Mar, 2014 – 11:58 am

    I think many have thought that right from the moment Diego Garcia first appeared in the narrative.

  129. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 1:30 pm “Crank” he may be. (I love how these terms of endearment appear) Now to be somewhat more objective do you honestly think that Israel would allow ALL of its diplomatic missions to be shut down by an industrial dispute????????? I would say that was very naive of you if you did. First are all levels of diplomats poorly recompensed? Are they all of one mind? Are they all in the union? Is it a closed shop? Faced with complete closure don’t you think the government would have done something about it? Could they not provide skeleton staffing (no pun intended) Who is maintaining ambassadorial and consular communications? How long will they all be closed?

    Israel has a history of prescient withdrawal of its own from calamitous situations but then they always did have a direct line to God.

  130. Tim, have you missed this mornings news ?

    They have almost certainly found the plane….. in the southern ocean.

  131. MAS statement

    “On behalf of all of us at Malaysia Airlines and all Malaysians, our prayers go out to all the loved ones of the 226 passengers and of our 13 friends and colleagues at this enormously painful time”.

    Pax manifest



    226 ? or 227 ? souls onboard

  132. James,did you see the announcement was sent to all the family members VIA TEXT & in English !

    What sort of government would be that insensitive ?
    Answer; the Malaysian Government.

  133. Something well dodgy when ZBC get Frank ‘I was there’ Gardner on to elaborate.

  134. straw44berry

    24 Mar, 2014 - 4:03 pm

    The Indian Ocean Gyre collects debris and rotates anti-clockwise, so for the debris to be where it is found. The crash site, to my mind must be 24 (hours) x 4 4 mph (usually winds here are far stronger than this) x 14 days = Approx 1400 miles west of its current location. This wouldnt be on the arc.

    Think of the cost, we need closure, we need to clear the hotels and make the news about the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Kuala Lumpur this weekend.

  135. The “loving” MAS !
    Text to the families. It’s unbelievable. It’s actually sick.

    The reports initially were that ONE “Mohd Khairu” was onbaord. He was a Flight Mechanic (the media called him a Flight Engineer ?)working in private aviation.
    No links to B777’s.

    The MAS statement refers to 226 pax and 13 crew.
    So ONE “pax” has now become “crew”.

    I have been informed that this ONE pax was a “Flight Engineer” for MAS.
    Do MAS operate B747-100’s ???

    Whatever it is, we appear to have….
    2 pilots, 10 F/A’s ….and 1 “Flight Engineer”.

  136. Straw.

    I totally agree about the cost , especially as Malaysian airlines are in financial trouble, this must a great strain on them.

  137. TWO things that strike me….

    ONE there now appears to be a “MAS employee” onboard.
    Nothing strange about a “crew ticket” or even a “deadhead”.
    But in these circumstances ?

    TWO they have “confirmed” that the aircraft ended up in the South Indian Ocean, thus negotiating the “air defence” of both Indonesia (mainland) and India (Campbell Bay, Nicobar)….and they didn’t “see” DH370 ?

  138. and one little observation for Chevaline watchers: did you notice that when the spokeswoman for the Malaysian government was asked why she thought the families of Chinese missing, suspected her Government was dissembling, she replied that she wished to be diplomatic but it was probably down to the expectations of the Chinese to their own government, and expecting no better from more liberal nations like her own. It was down to “cultural misunderstandings” – precisely the same excuse for lack of progress proffered by the French Prosecutor.

  139. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 3:10 pm No haven’t heard/seen. When I do I feel strangely sea sick. First question is the information reliable? Second question what have they found and is it undeniably from MH370. Third question how did it get there?

    I have not forgotten the un-scorched passport of said 9/11 hijacker “found” on New York street. Nor for that matter the rifle left behind in the Dallas Book Depository.

  140. For heavens sake Tim, read the comments above.

    Then you should be able to deduce that’s why all the relatives are being flown or invited to fly Australia.

  141. Katie….

    I just “flash by”. It is far easier.
    He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion”.

    One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !

  142. @Jon

    Could you just delete comments by the poster TimV.
    Here is a discussion with regard to Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370.

    If you read back, this poster appears to be unwilling/unable to discuss this topic.

  143. Tim V 2;53pm. You are a bit unfair to James on the “suicide” idea. He did not actually maintain it’s true and raises the same doubts as you do, and as we all do. Six hours to Suicide – that’d be one for the psychologists books all right. The strangest profile of a suicide, ever.

    I ask the same question too, as many commenters in The Guardian have – a pilot executes complicated maneouvers and is in full control of the plane up to and including a sharp turn south (that’s the 182 deg james showed on the map). that pretty much rules out the hypoxia theory (cf THe Wire) theory of electrical fire. So what’s left, if we are to believe the plane made that route? only a crazy suicide, and that is indeed – crazy.

    I raised the possibility above that we should not be so ready and willing to believe that the inmarsat data provided were god’s truth. After all, if we are willing to doubt any and all, that should be thrown into the ‘any” pot.

    And along with everybody else, I am also struck by the strange non-availability 9to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?

  144. Marlin, yes, I believe there has to be collusion here on the route the plane took.
    Yes I think we should believe MH370 has been found in the southern ocean because that’s where it was finally flown, to be ditched.

    I shall be very interested to hear if they find any bodies there though.

  145. Marlin and Katie

    Oddly (and this is at “cruise altitude” in the last 15 years there have been “more” suicide attempts than tech failures. (at “cruise”)

    One airline pilot was “released from duty” because he admitted tendencies. In one flight he actually relieved himself as he wanted to “push the stick forward”.

    It is “serious stuff”. Most pilots (Company Pilots) will not admit this.
    I am single. I fly a GV (small private jet) and work for a single employer (holding three crews *2x pilots (both Captains) and 2x F/A’s.
    That is a “hell of a lot” for one aircraft. (Duty and relief with one crew “off”).

    He is Arab. I consider myself “very lucky indeed”.
    Company politics in the “Big Airlines” is MASSIVE.

  146. katie, the Indian ocean – that’s where the US said the plane was to be found way back when. That’s probably just after it was ditched there, as you say. I think though that perhaps they had run into some issues with the “ditching”.

    Don’t know about the bodies. That’d be kind of ghoulish.

    If what some of us suspect is true (a deliberate diversion by whoever, for whatever, with passengers as “unfortunate” collaterals) then it marks a major escalation in the PTYB’s brazeness. They must be feeling pretty confident, by now.

    Perhaps that is one of the [only] two connections to Chevaline – an increasing trajectory of brazeness, and the cowing of the media. The PTB’s basically stopped fearing the “peasants”. they got them well under control now (or so they believe) using the subservient media mouthpieces. The overall trajectory is hard not to notice. The complete subjugation of the western media on the MH370 case is really hard not to notice, – and that includes just about ALL the major western media outlets. It’s like all the reporters all over the western MSM stopped being curious en-masse and agreed not to ask any difficult questions.

    Some of these ‘difficult’ questions are asked in forums like this and the comment sections of various papers. In fact, the disconnect between readers and headline writers has become a canyon. Clearly, people here on this thread are not the only ones disbelieving the official line. We only differ in how much imagination we are willing to use in offering alternative theories.

    As for myself, I am getting a bit suspicious of those all-too-definitive Inmarsat data, which now conclusively place the plane in that remote part of the Indian ocean, well away from any potential landing spots. How convenient!

  147. And Marlin

    “Six hours to Suicide” is a real concern.

    Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”.

    If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade !

  148. Ben

    Its simples !

    Chevaline stays on Chevaline (until linked).
    Is that a problem ?

  149. I see “james” is up to his old tricks. I always regard his personal accolade that I must have got something right. He was exactly the same on the Chevaline thread. He always tries mockery, then abuse, then attempts at censoring, not extending to himself of course. So so OBVIOUS.

  150. Marlin yes, I find it extraordinary that ‘journalists’ were so compliant with the official story, not one of them followed up on the Maldive sightings , but more importantly nor did they ask why nothing was picked up on radar by the biggest & most sophisticated observation post in the area, Diego Garcia.
    That is just farcical

    Yes they will eventually, maybe, but what they’ve done is given DG time to settle & become an old story.

  151. Wow… that’s great Ben.
    And “what” to this conversation, would you like to add ?

    Beware Ben. I like debate. But with idiots…. I bite !

    [Ben’s comment has been deleted. This reply will be removed soon as it is now “orphaned”]

  152. Ah Tim… then (my advice) why not trickle off to the Chavaline debate ?

    You just love being abused ?

  153. I think the dearth of facts should initiate a discussion of ‘cui bono’ rather than the verbose minutiae of what species of flea leaves droppings in rat-scat.

    There is a lot of air for historical musings of past practices in mysterious events which can be speculated upon. It beats the distractions emerging from those salient facts we are allowed to see.

  154. The biggest benefactor of the Malaysia crash is the USA as it gave black eyes to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing while it is not suspected of being behind the sabotage, like it was not when the electrical system of Asiana Flight 214 was knocked out by fires in the passenger cabin before the landing which the pilots miraculously prevented from becoming another massacre which would have given Beijung an even bigger black eye.

  155. How about the Freescale 20? Key persons involved in tech (electronic warfare) on their way to China.

    The murder of hundreds to cover the murder of a few targets, like the Beirut CIA chief who just happened to be on his way to the US, dies in the mysterious Lockerbie case.

  156. Trowbridge/Ben, I wholeheartedly concur.
    I have said from the beginning that in my view this is an American hit.

  157. The loss of the Freescale 20 was the biggest personal losses to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing, and there might have been even more important losses to the two countries.

    But the loss of any Chinese or Malays are a big loss to the two countries because their relatives are going bananas now over what happened to their loved one.

    And mentioning the downing of the Pan Am flight is quite apt, but it was the result of dire differences within the CIA where its investigators of Iran-Contra dealings in Lebanon, especially that of Matt Gannon, ran afoul of Syrian arms dealer al-Kassar who managed to get a briefcase bomb on board at Frankfurt to stop them.

  158. @Marlin 24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm
    “I am also struck by the strange non-availability (to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?

    The reason the search shifted to the southern end of the Inmarsat arc — the current location — is given by the Malaysians as:
    – The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.”

    One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.

    Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.

  159. Trowbridge;

    Yes, they are different in intent, but not in scale or strategy. My only point is terrorism is usually the default mechanism for the public, and key people exploit that superficial explanation.

    Even with Lockerbie we had evidence, on the ground. Perhaps that strategy of leaving any evidence, at all, is cutting it too thin for promulgating the narrative, but they certainly only see it as a bother to deal with conspiracy theorists. They have better things to do than deal with evidentiary questions.

  160. NR –

    “One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.”

    I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?

    “Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.”

    now that would be something, wouldn’t it? the waste in the US aerospace industry is legendary – may be that wehereas they treat spy satellites like corporate welfare, someone forgot to put a few more up that can stare down the indian ocean?

    And then, there’s that other option Katie brings up and I am beginning to lean towards – an American hit, followed by a deliberate “ditch”. In this scenario, America is, alas, quite the competent agency, though alas to nefarious ends and with little concern for some “collaterals”.

    How will we know which is which?

    Simple – just like Chevaline – watch for the cover-up details as they emerge in the next few weeks. Look for subtle contradictions, walk-backs and bizarre psychological theories of pilot suicide. Or even more bizzare theories of the automatic aircraft controls suddenly becoming sentient (that would be the first indication of a breach of Weil’s singularity) and doing a little ‘demonstration”.

    Just in case, let’s not forget to be nice to the “machines”.

  161. Couple more items I find interesting among the non-reactions and non-disclosures:

    There were a couple of Ukrainian passengers on the flight, and one Russian, I believe. Bluebird, brought up some interesting background about two of them. I especially liked the Chabbad jewish follower who was into deep sea diving. These details were given up-thread, i believe.

    Strangely, we hear nothing from Russia either – or Ukraine 9though there were some condolences from Israel’s Chabad community).

    I think everyone should go and look at that flight map provided by james – I think he is right about the likelihood of that 182 deg turn. The plane must have carefully skirted the indonesian air force radars, in which case, there’s no choice but to see intent in that sharp southerly turn.

    Unless that turn never happened…..despite whatever we are being told about “pings”.

  162. PS – reading my comment over I see i’m beginning to sound and even write like James. Now that’s a concern….

    May be some cross interference/information leakage in the Matrix?

  163. “I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?”

    The worst thing (in their estimation) is to verify what is only an educated guess.

  164. Did anyone notice this person lurking in the background at the endless ‘press conferences’ at which little info was provided?

    Dr. Hugh Dunleavy serves as Head of Network, Alliance & Planning and Director of Commercial at Malaysian Airline System Bhd. Dr. Dunleavy served as Executive Vice President of Strategy and Planning at Westjet Airlines Ltd. since November 1, 2009. Mr. Dunleavy served as an Executive Vice President of Commercial Distribution of Westjet Airlines Ltd. since September 7, 2006. He joined WestJet in January 2005 as Vice-President, Revenue. He quickly introduced changes to both the revenue management and network planning strategies resulting in significant improvements to WestJet’s financial performance indicators including an increase in load factor, yield and revenue per available seat mile. He has been working in the airline industry for over 25 years and has a solid reputation for delivering high quality results. Prior to joining WestJet, he held senior management positions at PROS (Passenger Revenue Optimization Systems), Star Alliance and Lufthansa Systems. Ever the academic, Mr. Dunleavy has also held the position of Professor of Operations Management at the John Molson School of Business at Concordia University. He has a Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics with an undergraduate degree in Physics from Sheffield University in the UK.


    It is anyway grossly insensitive of Malaysia to have Ecclestone’s junk roaring around a race track.

    Ecclestone – now there’s another story.

    Bernie Ecclestone wins damages case after F1 deal bribe
    Bernie Ecclestone: “If I was unreliable… I’m lucky to be as successful as we have been”

    A High Court judge has rejected an £85m damages claim against Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone but said he did pay a bribe over a sale of F1 shares.

    Mr Justice Newey found Mr Ecclestone had made a “corrupt” deal. And he had been not “reliable or truthful” during the case in London, the judge added.

    But he said there had been no financial loss to German media group Constantin Medien. It said it would appeal.

    Mr Ecclestone, 83, said he was “relieved” at the ruling.

    “I find it impossible to regard him as a reliable or truthful witness”
    Mr Justice Newey High Court

    Mr Ecclestone is the chief executive of F1, and has ruled the sport for almost four decades.


  165. NR

    Find way to send me your skpe and I will explain…..
    A. Why the US has said that as….

    1 they are mad
    2 they don’t understand “radar” (both Prim and Sec).

  166. Marlin, whilst I believe the US were the perpetrators I’m struggling with their motive.

    Was it to ‘show’ the Chinese what their capable of.
    Or because they didn’t want the Freescale passengers in Beijing ,possibly because they knew too much?
    Or,had they found that some of them were indulging in espionage & passing secrets to China ?
    Or was it purely an experiment with their new remote technology that went wrong ?

    Remember they had just announced a breakthrough .

    ‘AUSTIN, Texas–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Mar. 3, 2014– Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE: FSL), a global leader in radio frequency (RF) power transistors, today announced the availability of 11 new commercial RF power LDMOS products that can meet the requirements of U.S. defines electronics applications.’

    Was it the same principle as killing off the Iranian scientists ?

  167. Is this Jeremy Clarkson individual for real? A psychopath.


    It’s well past the time for the BBC to stop enriching him.

  168. Katie
    24 Mar, 2014 – 4:46 pm to date I seen nothing more than “white objects”, some dimensional stuff and wooden pallets. I haven’t heard a thing that any of this is definitely from or part of MH370. In fact I am rather surprised on such scant evidence the relatives have been told everyone is dead. They may be, but not necessarily in the way that is being promoted. We have had far too much proven deceit regarding mass murder in the last decade to accept anything at face value without convincing evidence. There are millions of good Americans leading good lives, but do I trust the American Government any longer in such matters. No. Other governments must be judged on their merits. You are clearly more easily persuaded Katie which is fine by me. Its every man (or woman) for themselves. But what convinces you that the debris is definitely MH370?

  169. Tim

    We have to wait and see.

    But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat online.
    Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”)

    May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.
    They no longer exist.
    Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened.

    Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face

  170. Tim.

    A number of things.

    1. The Australian pilots have come back each day & given the media negative information on their failure to find debris.
    Today they came back in a very different mood & would not talk to anyone, the Captain went straight into debriefing, a sub was sent out to say,more would be explained tomorrow.
    2,A hasty press conference was called when one had already been given
    3, The Chinese have seen debris, not via satellite but eyes on & are not allowed to speak.
    4, All the relatives are to be flown by chartered planes to Oz, tomorrow.
    5, The Malaysian PM has said definitively the plane came to its end in the Southern corridor.
    6. No survivors.
    7,Too many reports of varied shapes & sizes in debris spotted for it to be flotsam.
    8, A ship will be there within hours to pick up the first pieces of debris

    Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait

  171. Crikey James……….. that’s a lot to get into the cockpit……………..LoL !!!

  172. Katie

    So correct. You said “Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait”.

    “Tim” has no technical competence to determine any causal factors whatsoever.

  173. Katie…

    It is indeed.
    By that I mean “one uniform” and 6 shirts (plus casual wear) is that what you mean !

    gulfstreams are “made by Americans” that’s what they tell me. And they fit us “Oirish”…but then again “we’re all Oirish” really !

  174. James, I was thinking of 6ft 3 folding into such a small space.

  175. Katie…

    We have do have a “crew rest” area !
    And as a “big” private jet….there is room.

    And two F/A’s…. and room for them to “put make up on” and “chitter chat”.

    Pax wise… Max 4 !

  176. Marlin
    24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm “Not to hard on James” is a bit rich compared to what I consider to be the unfair invective he has poured on me. Just the two entries up are sufficient proof I would say. He now opines “He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion” both of which I would say were transparently not the case. “One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !” he adds.

    If it is the same James he has “previous” going right back, pouring scorn when valid points have been made. I have always regarded his role in these rooms with a great deal of reservation. For that reason I have no desire to engage with him.

    Both here and previously on the Chevaline thread, of which he obviously prefers not to be reminded, he has used his technical knowledge of aeroplanes and flight to confuse rather than clarify and been notable in appearing to challenge yet always coming down on the side of the “official version”. That is just my perception but I think it is supported on this thread as it was on the last.

    He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them. Instead, despite endless entries himself, he labels mine “rants” and seeks to get them deleted. He adopted similar tactics on Chevaline until the absence of contributors obviously persuaded him it was no longer a major threat and worth his time. He kept on Maralyn’s site I believe after they ganged up against me on there, doing what he’s doing here. I have been proved largely right regarding Chevaline. I might be right on this one. Time will tell (or may not) but clearly its not a line he wants to hear.

    Perhaps my assessment is just coloured by the personal nature of his attacks on me, although I am certainly not the first he has attacked vituperatively and thereby driven off. It is an obvious strategy. Where it is just a reflection of an aggressive, combative and profane character or something more sinister I wouldn’t like to say. However even a brief review of early contributions will show I am not exaggerating.

    I have never ever suggested that contributors were banned, unless breaching rules of decency, assuming people could easily skip what they didn’t want to read. The fact that he resorts to that tactic says it all.

  177. Just a reminder here.

    Flight MH370 Mystery. Diego Garcia Suspended All Flights On March 8th for 72 hrs.

    ‘Notice they have completely erased all posts between March 6th, and March 9th. There is some very weird stuff going on down in creepy Diego Garcia, a place where the US operates completely independant of the constitution.
    Edit to add, here is a link to the Diego Garcia Passenger facebook page with the March 8th flight schedule. Notice all other flight schedules throughout the month all had several flights schedules. The fact that no flight were scheduled for 3 days during the time MH370 went missing, all maintenance crew most likely were off on leave.
    Great time to sneak in an aircraft.’



  178. Underground Hangars @ DG.

  179. TimV; I have seen many ‘rational’ experts steer the conversation toward points of detail.

    Engineers/pilots often have the tendency toward myopia; failing to see he forest for the trees and ferns

  180. Tim

    “He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them”

    I stopped there as I was laughing.

    A. The “concrete points I have made” You flatter yourself in delusion.

    B. He “never engages”. How could I. You are deluded.

    C Nor does he “either to support or disagree with them”

    Now I can rip all your “posts” apart, if you so wish ?
    But you will sleep a very “aware” and yet “unhappy” man/or woman, I know not what gender you are.

    If you wish to “engage”with your “self perceived” wit or “wisdom” (so sadly lacking), then do continue.

    I do laugh at your “James is this or James is that”. The truth, be it not, is you have little idea what “James” is ?

    Continue dear chap. As I will continue to tear you apart.
    Enjoy….as it is my pleasure.

    Timothy…..over to you. To “try” ! Xxxx
    I await. I am more than happy.

  181. Tim V (and also James). FWIW, I seriously disapprove of any and all personal attacks on other posters, no matter how annoyed one is by their posting. I’ve seen posts from people I had serious issues with, sometimes because they were beyond the pale, or off to never never land, or just too accusatory or maligning in tone. Yet, even when there are posters that in the past raised serious issues due to some nasty comment or other, I am willing enough to start afresh when their posts give good reason to do so. At least that’s my approach.

    I think it is silly for people who will likely never have or will know each other in person to allow themselves to become overly riled up due to disagreement about events or interpretations or manner of presentation. None of us know who is posting here for what reason other than what they themselves choose to reveal. Some may have agendas we know nothing about and some just may appear as if they have an agenda. Some are more prone to personalizing or emotionalizing responses, others stay more aloof. And many just want to express their thoughts without engaging further.

    My one concern is to keep the forum both engaging and open to different takes. james has contributed some interesting insights from his flying experience which come in handy when discussing a “disappearing aircraft”. Tim V contributed not a few interesting approaches and analysis of possibilities – which are of definite interest to those inclined to go in depth into speculations when facts are scarce. I see no reason individuals cannot just ignore that which does not engage them and address those comments that do.

    Another example – I did not always agree with katie on some things in the past 9especially concerning Chevaline). but here i find myself in agreement on a few things. may be in the future opinions/approaches will diverge again. So what? it’s only an online forum – any of us can disappear tomorrow with none the wiser, right?

    The only thing I may resent BTW, is if it turns out some get paid to post while I don’t. now that would be annoying, kind of. hopefully I’ll never know.

    And Tim V, if you could, please just move on. There are plenty of serious shenanigans going on in the world right now, many perpetrated by evil neocons, resulting in untold loss of life and civilization. And many more are being planned as we speak. In light of that, a few onlinespats don’t matter a whole lot, do they?

  182. …and after 5 paragraphs (my Lord he has learnt to use paragraphs now) in jumps lovely Ben.

    Jump in Ben, I will try to amuse.

    Are use “engineers and pilots” fail to see the wood for the trees !

    Yet…we DO actually give our “professional” view. Bad as it maybe, we try…and your profession dare I ask ?

    Cake Maker ? Butcher ? A layer of bricks ?
    All noble professions. Yet you do not state “from where” you enlightened views come from ? Strange !

    At least “I” am proud of what I have done
    ….the money helps to, but that’s a “given”. !Ho Ho !

  183. Ben 9.52 pm

    The underground hangars @ DG are huge enough to conceal B-52 bombers which are 49 metres long with a 56 metre wingspan.


    However, a Boeing 777-200ER is 63.7 metres long with a 60.9 metres wingspan.


    So maybe, probably big enough but not necessarily so.

  184. Marlin…..

    I tried.

    NR (respected) and others joined in the debate.

    Katie inited her friend along.

    Then Ken Sore(that’s as far as I get with him) started his “odd rants”.

    Then along came Tim (no experience, but just wants to “say his bit”). WHY !

    So this thread is ruined ! Well done Ken and Tim ! (and Ben)

    No “f*cking idea” but they’ll say it anyway !
    Still…. I’ll now close my “ideas”…and for the “hell of it” take the p*ss out of Tim ! 14 days off. Why not !

  185. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 5:35 pm says: “Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”. If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade!”

    Clearly no other options being considered.

  186. 10.23pm Tim

    You ask a question ! “clearly no others considered” ?

    Erm….. I try to do this as simply as possible for you

    Many years ago….
    The people in the big towns
    Were only effected by the news they saw
    Now as the world “got bigger”
    The people in the big towns have to think a bit harder.
    Sometimes the people in the big towns …onlt saw the big town they lived in
    But as the people grew they realised there was many big towns….

    Are you a “fruit cake” Tim ?

  187. katie 9:47 pm. Thanks for that link on DG flight manifest. That’s really more coincidence than some of us are willing to believe.

    I’l go back to the link on that flight path provided by james, which I think is quite revealing. Indeed, given the need to skirt the indonesian and Indian radars, the flight direction just before the turn south makes practically a beeline to DG. This trajectory, I believe was drawn independent of the “pings” i assume – other than that final position, supposedly at 7;11am.

    I’ll reiterate what I said earlier – we cannot totally rely on what Inmarsat data is provided to us, since the company is not exactly independent of other entities. Neither is MA. neither is Australia.

    But here’s the thing – we still need a good theory for how the aircraft could get to DG, who would fly it there (pilot, hijacking, remote, etc). If it did fly there first, it wouldn’t be so difficult to prevail upon Inmarsat to release a few ‘additional” pings, or alter the ones they have. certainly not so difficult to add “new” analysis as part of the cover-up. It appears the aircraft may have had just enough fuel to get to DG, assuming not too much was wasted in the various manoeuvers on route. Or, it could have refueled on the way somewhere?

    With this theory, it is easy enough to imagine flying the craft to the final resting place in the ocean or perhaps just selected parts thereof? no idea what happened to the passengers in this scenario or the crew. Way too morbid to contemplate though i doubt any are alive.

    Of course, like everyone else i have no idea what the motive could be. Could be the gold, as BB says or the FS passengers or something else we have no clue about. In the meantime, let’s watch to see how the cover-up spin is going and their feeble attempts to somehow mollify the relatives.

    One more thing – China. Something tells me they were not quite on whatever happened. If they are the injured party in all this there’s bound to be repercussions.

  188. “Ever since Putin clamped down on the Oligarchs…..”

    I do LOVE how Kenneth (what a name) starts a post.
    Straight in there with “bollocks”.

    And still posting an avatar of a dead guy ! Incredible people let him do it.

    I may get an avatar of a dying Kenya HIV invested mother. Just to keep up the “oddness” of everything.

  189. Marlin

    My “last” post on logic (then I’m just going to take the p*ss out of Tim !) so please listen….

    This may have been the act of a suicidal man.
    There is no proof of this. There is only circumstantial evidence.

    Someone flew that a/c.
    Someone knew the waypoints around Indonesia
    Someone was knowledgeable enough to get behind another flight at VAMPI

    This effects YOU !
    If someone was radicalised enough (recall the “beheading” in the UK) then MH370 has changed everything.

    I “hope” it was a mad pilot. I “think” it was a radicalised one.
    Look all you like at “mad America” they are after all crackers.
    …but understand, the world has most surely “changed”.

  190. James,

    If you were the ‘pilot':-
    a) Captain Zaharie
    b) First Officer Fariq, total flying hours 2700, ?? hrs on a 777-200ER
    c) Hijacker – maybe engineer/dead-header

    Which of these would fly to Diego Garcia by overflying low over the Maldives and then heading a course for DG, about 650 miles away.

    Using up more fuel by flying low over the Maldives seems a big risk unless your earlier suggestion that Malaysian Airlines were trying to save money, but if using Visual Flight Rules necessary.

  191. Sraw….

    I’ll look. Hold on.

  192. James
    24 Mar, 2014 – 8:51 pm You say: “But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat on line. Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”) May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.They no longer exist. Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened. Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face”.

    What a combination of self-congratulatory, condescending, self-righteous, threatening machismo? Blatently, it and earlier remarks are also very offensive and contrary to what is expected of us here. I think it says all we need to know about the character behind the name. Thank god I don’t fly “James Airlines”.

  193. Last leg is direct in.

    Maldives would be a “way out” hold.
    Impossible. Madness.

    You could hold south. No one would see you. But little point

    You could go straight in (Max landing weight no issue)
    It’s 1560 nm from waypoint NOPEK

    Total flight time (from last known) just of 5hrs

  194. Thanks James

    I dont know what to think now. The U-turn shown on this link suggests to me a fight in the cockpit:-


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