I hope I don’t pretend to have expertise on everything. On fracking I have none. My entirely amateur views on the subject are that the major risk appears to be pollution of aquifers. The UK seems too seismically stable for earthquakes or volcanoes to be a serious concern. I am not terribly worried about the local environmental consequences of the installations – human activity of all kinds detracts from the natural environment in a sense. This spot was doubtless a great deal more pleasing aesthetically before Dundee was built upon it. But then Dundee has a great deal more human utility.
It is also plain to me that humans are going to have to burn fossil fuels for a while yet, despite the very obvious fact that we also need to put much more energy and resource into developing renewable alternatives.
So I am not opposed to fracking in principle, which I know will upset some people. But nor can I understand the hurry. Fracking is being undertaken on a very large scale in the United States and elsewhere. Onshore fracking is not actually a new technology at all, but its widespread use is new. Given concerns especially about the effects on underground water supplies, why don’t we just wait for thirty years and see how it turns out elsewhere? That should give time for a good accumulation of evidence.
The hydrocarbons are not going anywhere – they will still be there in thirty years time and I predict will be a good deal more valuable. So my entirely unprofound, non-fundamentalist and dully pragmatic view on fracking is that there should be a thirty year moratorium. Then we can think about it.
Nearly everything written about energy, climate and pollution has been totally corrupted from both sides of the political divide. The propaganda is so incredibly powerful, and financially and politically based, rather than being based on objective scientific analysis, that it is almost completely pointless trying to argue about it, because it is impossible to change people’s minds, because their views are so entrenched.
The only thing that will change minds, is when implemented policies, result in extremely serious results, such as mass impoverishment, and death…but by then it will be too late.
The UK’s energy balance is currently on a knife edge. A very severe winter, like the one we had in 1962/63 will almost certainly result in large scale black-outs, and a large increase in death, and that is even if we don’t annoy the Russians sufficiently that they cut off, by far the largest supplies of Europe’s gas.
Get your coal in now. I have – just as a contingency – because the Government and the energy companies haven’t got any. We have the lowest gas storage capability of any country in Europe.
Much of our electricity is generated from gas. In an anti-cyclone that last 3 months ( as in 1963 – my igloo built at Christmas was still there at Easter) … there is no wind – so all those windmills will be useless. A harsh winter hits the whole of Europe at the same time – and we have been used to very mild ones….the dearth of energy – will be across Europe all at the same time. We will all be scrabbling for energy resources that are grossly insufficient.
What if Putin just says…you ain’t getting any Russian energy…until you kick the USA into touch…and exit NATO?
I remember what it is like nearly freezing to death…the pain doesn’t really hit you, until you start to warm up….that’s if you are lucky enough.
Tony
“RoS; Carlin seems to know what humans contribute to the Ecosystem.”
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Yes Ben, I always found George Carlin, and still do very funny, yet his humour, was laced with many truths, that apply today.
“The only thing that will change minds, is when implemented policies, result in extremely serious results, such as mass impoverishment, and death…but by then it will be too late.”
Yes. There will be some furious scurrying about, telephone banks full…’mistakes were made’ just for show you understand.
Like when a community recognizes the need for a stop light at a busy intersection. Someone will have to die before it’s done.
Compact fusion reactors are an exciting, if totally unproven hope.
http://www.gizmag.com/lockheed-martin-compact-fusion-reactor/34277/
Likewise, thorium
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24638816
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cew_ZLgi3Cc
Now, if 55% of Scots had only half as much backbone as our Irish brethren……..
(the UK isn’t a player. Former world leader in atomic energy. Now not)
“The only thing that will change minds, is when implemented policies, result in extremely serious results, such as mass impoverishment, and death…but by then it will be too late.”
Yes. There will be some furious scurrying about, telephone banks full…’mistakes were made’ just for show you understand.
Like when a community recognizes the need for a stop light at a busy intersection. Someone will have to die before it’s done.”
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Ben, I don’t even think deaths make a difference now, to some global companies, you just have to look at the Bhopal Disaster, although some local managers in India were charged with negligence,and sentenced to two years, all were released on bail. Meanwhile up 80.000 resident in the area suffered some sort of reaction to the 1984 incident.
In Union Carbides defence they did pay out compensation, of $470 million.
Could I suggest a woodburner Tony Opmoc rather than coal.
~~~
Over the weekend, Didcot B burnt down (gas fired) and a power station in Lincs lost its store of straw bales.
Didcot B power station fire: Half of site out of action
Dave Bray from Oxfordshire Fire and Rescue describes the extent of damage caused by the fire
Half of an Oxfordshire power station that supplies a million homes with electricity will remain “non-operational” indefinitely after a huge fire, its owners said.
At its height, 25 fire engines and about 100 firefighters tackled the blaze at Didcot B power station.
The blaze began in a cooling tower at about 20:00 BST on Sunday and spread to three others because of strong winds.
Owner RWE npower said it did not know how long the closure would be in place.
“It is too early to give any definitive estimate of how long this will be,” the company spokesperson said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29684619
and
20 October 2014
Three boys arrested over huge Sleaford straw blaze
The straw fire near Sleaford started on Sunday evening but was still burning on Monday
Three boys have been arrested on suspicion of arson after a fire destroyed thousands of bales of straw near Sleaford in Lincolnshire.
The 24,000 straw bales were being stored for use at a nearby straw-fired power plant.
Fire engines remain at the scene and a section of the A16 is expected to remain closed until Monday evening.
The fire started in a field between Quarrington and Silk Willoughby at 18:00 BST on Sunday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-29685601
20 October 2014
Cheap African solar energy could power UK homes in 2018
By Matt McGrath
Environment correspondent, BBC News
An impression of what a large-scale concentrated solar power facility might look like in the Tunisian desert
Investors are seeking funding from the UK government for an ambitious plan to import solar energy generated in North Africa.
Under the scheme, up to 2.5 million UK homes could be powered by Tunisian sunshine by 2018.
The company involved says they have already spent 10 million euros developing the site.
A number of overseas energy producers are competing to bring green energy to the UK from 2017.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29551063
“Now, if 55% of Scots had only half as much backbone as our Irish brethren……..”
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Nigel
I think back then what disgusted most Irish folk, was the fact that James Connolly who was gravely injured, and would have died, soon, was tied to a stretcher, (because he was to ill to stand) and shot before a firing squad.
Thankfully in the UK the ballot box has replaced the bullet, and although we lost no one died, which means we live to fight another day.
“Could I suggest a woodburner Tony Opmoc rather than coal”
Or a multiburner to increase your options.
The fertilisers we grow our food with are made from oil, the world couldn’t feed it’s population without it. Plastics, synthetic rubber, tarmac just about everything we use is dependent on oil and most of it is by products of oil used for energy.
“The fertilisers we grow our food with are made from oil, the world couldn’t feed it’s population without it.”
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Two words Fred, Hydroponics, Aeroponics.
“Two words Fred, Hydroponics, Aeroponics.”
Plants still need NPK as how you grow them.
Too lazy to exploit kinetic energy, wind sea currents, CSP and much more, just lets all go back to the middle ages, burn everything we can lay our hands on.
I think the asteroid has hit No9’s owner on the head and we are now waiting for the next thirty years for the results of two spheres colliding.
Off course every form of energy has to be in the hand of some corporate bod without am socially responsible streak in them, could not possibly be community owned.
Somebody has to exploit those communities next to the sea which could generate their own energies, we can’t have communities making their own, that would be too backward.
What ever we banter, chat and blether here is utterly devoid of reality as those pulling the strings will not let anybody else in.
So get used to it that fracking will happen, that people will be arrested and put in prison for their eco-terrorism and that the establishment will carve the whole country up into molehills.
Or wake up and stop them seriously, your choice, and if you have some warm bolt hole to disappear to, don’t even take part in the conversation.
perfectly good drinking water, close to a million gallons/borehole and at a totally beneficial price to those who mix it with cancerous chemicals and inject it into rocks.
How about burning dead bodies for heat and energy, come on, they are there and want to be burned anyway, why should that matter at all.
We get some Lord Kack and his bumchums vouching for it with their open pockets and it will be fiiiiiinnneee…..
Burning wood, maybe the politically correct answer….but it simply will not work…except for the normal density of human beings surviving in the forest…It would maybe support around 1 Billion people on the planet…at a push…but 7 Billion…no chance…
And anyway (yes we do have some wood too) the coal is only for the contingency…when everything fails…no gas…no electricity (still entirely possible) and it would cause mass panic…because absolutely nothing would work. Current civilisation is based on very reliable electricity supplies…If it fails…everything does….you won’t even be able to get any cash out of the cash machines…No one will get paid…no computers will work…The supply chains will break down…they are geared for very high efficiency….just in time delivery…but no contingency…
So take some sensible precautions…just so you can survive for a few weeks…tinned / dried food etc …camping stove & gas, torches, candles, rechargeable batteries, gloves, warm clothing.
All these things come in useful anyway….If you are running on empty, and the cupboard is bare…if it all goes wrong you are going to starve and or freeze to death..just for the want of a bit of pre-planning. Even a bank crash could cause a similar problem…as Gordon Brown insisted it nearly did in 2008. Some people might still work, if they are not getting paid….but even in Russia…following their crash around 1990…extremely large numbers of people died..(though virtually nothing about it was ever published in the West). It did however have a dramatic effect on Russia’s Life Expectancy figures…they plummeted.
There’s nothing special about us, and we are just as vulnerable to any kind of crash. No need to get silly about it..just think and plan ahead. Rice and Beans are very cheap…and you can live on them.
Tony
“Plants still need NPK as how you grow them.”
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Here Fred read this
http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/314-peak-oil-and-fertilizer-no-problem.html
The key facts are very simple:
1) You don’t need oil, natural gas, coal or any other fossil fuel to make nitrogen fertilizer.
2) All you need to make nitrogen fertilizer is air, water and energy.
Human excrement, sheep pellets, horse droppings and garbage fed to worms to create casings, fish fertilizer; all natural. We don’t want or need chemical fertilizers.
You can also use cow flop for heating and cooking. Many cultures have no choice.
“Human excrement, sheep pellets, horse droppings and garbage fed to worms to create casings, fish fertilizer; all natural. We don’t want or need chemical fertilizers.”
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True Ben, how many times do you think you’ve re-drank the water you’ve flushed down the toilet pan?
Astronauts drink their own urine, RoS. Try to wrap your head around that. 🙂
Or lips.
Mary,
“Cheap African solar energy could power UK homes in 2018”
I came across this Club of Rome nonsense about 10 years ago.
Its total depopulation, on a massive scale bollocks, as is a great deal of such eco-stuff (and I’m as pro-save the planet as anyone else – but without the mass genocide as the Green Agenda propaganda will result in)…not that I expect you to believe me.
You could try “The Solar Fraud: Why Solar Energy Won’t Run The World” by Physics Professor Howard C. Hayden. Its highly readable even without much knowledge of physics and maths. However, I suspect it would be a bit like giving the book “The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold” by Acharya S to a Catholic Priest.
Tony
Ben,
Everyone, who receives their water supply from the Thames (except in the upper reaches) …drinks everyone else’s urine several times. Why do you think Beer has been so popular in London for hundreds of years???
Tony
I was watching one of the videos from the international space station recently. Amazing, and it makes me think if humans can can do all that (and there are some pretty amazing innovations to make it happen, ie not just fancy technology) our problems down here aren’t that big.
But we are forced to organize our lives in a crazy way.
Departing Space Station Commander Provides Tour of Orbital Laboratory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doN4t5NKW-k
Ishmael,
That video is very impressive. I had absolutely no reason to suspect any of the International Space Station was faked…It never seemed that hard to me to achieve that…After all, we all know for sure that there are loads of satellites up in the sky. If that video was faked, then I don’t know how it was faked. It is certainly not CGI.
However….I can’t explain this either…unless these bubbles were faked…now why would anyone do that???They are hardly noticeable…but definitely there….as if the ISS is in a water tank…
http://www.mojvideo.com/video-international-space-station-hoax-bubbles-and-lights/503d2c2d34c927d3b15e
“Looking at 2 big mistakes, one are bubbles rising in what must be underwater in the cupola, and then during a transition between submarine ISS model and dry ISS model, a serious lighting issue can be noticed.”
Tony
nevermind..
good one
why don’t we just wait for thirty years and see how it turns out elsewhere?
Brilliant concept for a political party: fracking; QE; mass immigration; multi-culturalism. Let’s just see how it works out over the next thirty years in France, Denmark, etc.
But, about fracking, no one seems to have mentioned conservation.
Britain lacks work for millions of unskilled and semiskilled workers, so instead of punching out more of those near worthless one pound coins (I needed five for a parking meter last time I was in London), why not deploy them rebuilding virtually the whole gimcrack place, replacing square miles of ticky tacky brick boxes with engineered cities, where homes are properly insulated and can be heated with a hair drier; density is high and the mix of residential, business and industrial buildings minimizes commuting distances; and public spaces are attractive enough to end the desperate urge of nearly every Briton to fly away as often as possible to some place other than where they live. That way, there’d be no energy crisis and no need for fracking, ever.