Tories Support Pre-Emptive Nuclear War 328


On Radio 4 this morning Defence Secretary Michael Fallon argued not just for Trident missiles, but for first use of nuclear weapons and “pre-emptive nuclear war”. There was no misunderstanding or circumstance – he was queried very specifically on the exact point. Not only do the Tories support having weapons of mass destruction, they support using them when none have been used against us.

The whole discussion is of course a fantasy as there is no danger whatsoever of a major attack on the UK by any foreign power. Russia has no plans to attack the UK, has never had any plans to attack the UK, and anyway has an economy the size of the Spanish economy. Mind you, the Tories have also been fantasising about war with Spain recently…

There is no sensible justification for Trident. What North Korea shows is that nuclear weapons are no deterrent against other countries developing them. Only a lunatic would actually use them – Kim Jong Un, Michael Fallon, Theresa May – and you can’t deter a lunatic. And Michael Fallon’s suggestion this morning that nuclear weapons in some way deter terrorists is risible.

But just as the media are very wrong to spend the last 24 hours telling us that Jeremy Corbyn is mad because he won’t commit to destroying mankind, it would be equally wrong of me to argue that every single person who supports Trident is a blazing fascist. There are decent people who support Trident. But they would not support the Fallon/May doctrine of “pre-emptive nuclear war” and first use of nuclear weapons.

I would like to believe that the Fallon/May enthusiasm for first use and pushing that red button, along with hard Brexit and anti-immigration rhetoric, would convince some moderate Tories and ex-Labour voters that they are being hustled very quickly down a path it is wrong to go down. But I fear the media water chute has caught them up and realisation may not set in on time.

During the referendum campaign there was a suggestion from the SNP that after Independence we might give WENI (Wales England Northern Ireland) seven years grace to prepare before removing its missiles from the Clyde. I am totally opposed to this. I rather support the Ukrainian solution, whereby an international team is brought in immediately to verify the decommissioning of any nuclear weapons on Scottish territory or in Scottish waters.

If you cut the missiles in two along the middle, they might make good children’s slides.


328 thoughts on “Tories Support Pre-Emptive Nuclear War

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  • lysias

    The way the banksters’ politicians support such insane policies is a measure of their deperation. Their whole economy is that close to collapse.

    That they would prefer nuclear war to economic collapse is a measure of their immorality.

    • michael norton

      Yes, guess who will be the new annointed head of Nuclear Armed France

      Neo Liberal bankster – Macron

          • glenn_uk

            Those who failed to campaign against Trump apparently still don’t realise this. They felt they could keep their “purity” by campaigning against Clinton, yet – somehow – this would not be assisting Trump into office.

            Seems I might have ticked off some in the purity brigade here, by pointing out to them they were very effectively campaigning for Trump as they ranted about how awful Clinton was.

            I wonder how many will make the same stupid mistake again, not understanding that there is not sparkly-unicorn candidate standing. The lessor of two evils is often the only good option, and our only choice to to act like adults and accept that fact.

          • laguerre

            I’m not sure I agree with the “sadly” bit. Macron is young, very intelligent and extremely ambitious (according to friends of friends who know the family). OK he is a bankster, but also the son of a family of doctors en province (Amiens), i.e. bourgeois conservatism. He goes for the young vote. All in all a good combination for finding a good solution for France in the future – flexibility, interest in the needs of the young, knowledge of banking and social conservatism. Not like Sarkozy, who went at Thatcherism like a bull at a gate. That’s not to say that he will do good, rather he is capable of it.

            Not good on foreign policy, but you don’t win elections with that. Better wait to see what he does.

          • Habbabkuk

            Glenn_UK

            “They felt they could keep their “purity” by campaigning against Clinton, yet – somehow – this would not be assisting Trump into office.”
            ___________________

            Or by voting for Ms Jill Stein (and contributing substantial funds to her campaign)! LOL

          • glenn_uk

            H: “Or by voting for Ms Jill Stein (and contributing substantial funds to her campaign)!

            Indeed – this is the “sparkling unicorn” choice a lot of these rather silly purity voters went for. Enraged that their candidate of choice (Sanders) did not get the Dem nomination, they wanted to show how righteous and angry they were – by putting Trump in office instead.

            They did this by campaigning _against_ Clinton, and by throwing their vote away on a no-hope candidate.


            (I won’t mention Bevin’s name in connection with this sort of foolhardiness again – pointing out the truth seems to tick him off.)

          • Habbabkuk

            Glenn_UK

            Happy we agree on something from time to time! 🙂

            But I believe it was not Bevin but another regular poster who voted for Ms Jill Stein 🙂 🙂

          • laguerre

            re Hab

            “Very much like Giscard in the 1970s (second sentence).”

            If you compare Macron to someone in “les trentes glorieuses”, then that means you approve them. You’ve given up on Le Pen? She’s not a very nice choice, I agree, particularly not her entourage, who are very fascist.

          • glenn_uk

            H: “But I believe it was not Bevin but another regular poster who voted for Ms Jill Stein ? ?

            Indeed, Bevin is very fortunate in not being an American. However, he did campaign for Trump by proxy, but appears stubbornly unwilling to understand that fact.

          • Catte

            That’s Le Pen’s major function as far as the neolibs are concerned. To make people believe Macron is a civilised and acceptable choice.

          • michael norton

            If left to get on with the job of annihilating the Islamists in Syria, the Syrian government with help by Russia, might have it cleared up in eighteen months.

            However with the help of Turkey, Saudi and America, Britain, Australia, Jordan, Israel, France and others, it may take much longer and result in many more civilian deaths.

            UN ‘deeply concerned’ over safety of 400,000 civilians fleeing US-led coalition airstrikes in Raqqa
            https://www.rt.com/news/386002-raqqa-un-concerns-us-airstrikes/

  • Sharp Ears

    I am posting this from The Lifeboat News with the permission of the author. It is a copy of a complaint to the BBC,
    ‘”In reporting reaction to Jeremy Corbyn’s interview on Marr yesterday about Trident you made a glaring omission of an important and relevant part of Michael Fallon’s interview this morning on the Today Programme, which I can only describe as bias. Specifically, Fallon said he would not rule out a first strike policy with nuclear weapons (Quote: “In the most extreme circumstances you can’t rule out the use of nuclear weapons as a first strike.” (from the Today interview)).

    Your first segment would have been considerably different if you had included this part of Fallon’s interview in the discussion. You might say that Nia Griffiths could have brought it up (and I think she should have), but it was outrageous for the supposedly impartial broadcaster that you claim to be to not put these statements to the conservative representative when you questioned him. This is obvious bias in my view, considering the interview in question was also on the BBC, and you even showed a segment of a later interview with Fallon (I wonder if he repeated these first strike comments in this interview). I sincerely hope your performance improves over the campaign or I fear I will have to write further complaints. ”

    http://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/thread/1493034383.html

  • Tony

    This is ‘First Strike’ Fallon’s chilling message to the listeners of Radio 4’s Today programme:
    “In the most extreme circumstances, we have made it very clear that you can’t rule out the use of nuclear weapons as a first strike.”
    This reckless talk makes nuclear war more likely and thus threatens our very survival.
    We need to know if a willingness to start a nuclear war is also Theresa May’s position.
    She must not, therefore, be allowed to dodge the leaders’ debates.

    The other parties must attack relentlessly over this.
    In addition, I urge everybody to sign this petition and encourage others to sign it. Our very survival may depend on it.
    https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-we-deserve-a-debate-what-s-may-scared-of
    Thank you.

    “A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.”
    President Reagan, 1984 State of the Union address.

    • Stu

      Reagan was lying through his teeth as this point to gain support for Star Wars.

      Edward Teller had his hand up his arse.

      • Don

        True, Sadly, today’s crop of right wing nutters make Ronnie seem like Gandhi in comparison

      • Tony

        There is plenty of evidence that Reagan feared nuclear war and wanted to abolish nuclear weapons.

    • nevermind

      thanks for the link, Tony, lets hope that the issue/question will pass the party political censorship, should she join in.

  • fwl

    I missed the Today programme this morning, but there is a short extract on the Independent’s web site. Is Fallon perhaps not up to speed with his brief and over anxious to appear strong on security? Surely, Russia could never for a moment believe that the UK would launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike; hasn’t Fallon simply blundered.

    Ironically it was always Labour who nervously over extended on security to look strong (and this all ended in New Labour and Tony Blair’s extreme over reach) and it was the Tories who didn’t feel anxious about appearing solid on security. Fallon is behaving like a nervous new labour minister.

    • D_Majestic

      I think many of us could think of far more appropriate words of description for this chilling debacle than ‘Fallon is behaving like a nervous new labour minister’.

      • fwl

        What I meant is that when one over eggs it to look tough one is not usually perceived as tough but as weak.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well we’ve already had two nuclear misses but thanks to two two Russian’s who kept their nerves, Vasili Arkhipov and Stanislav Petrov, we’ve not been vapourised just yet.

    However scientists moved the Doomsday clock closer to midnight not that long ago. It now stands at two and a half minutes to midnight.

    The Apocalypse will be televised.

    • Robert Crawford

      There will not be a nuclear war. Why? Because the 1% who own everything would lose everything. Unless, they mistakenly think they can survive underground long enough for the radiation pollution to be rendered harmless.

      In the meantime, every country in the world should have nuclear weapons, and the means to deliver them any where in the world, to keep the bullies, the greedy bullies, inside their own borders.

      The biggest danger is, the nutters and their friendly fire.

      • Chris Rogers

        Robert,

        Members of the 1%, which in reality according to Marc Faber should correctly be referred too as the 0.3%, actually do believe they can ride out a nuclear war or crisis caused by economic collapse – there are hundreds of bunk holes built by these buggers in North America and New Zealand – these people on the whole are sociopaths, as such they hold no fear as believe their wealth – most of which is stolen via rent extraction – will allow them to survive and prosper. Although, who’ll wipe their arses is another question awaiting an answer – such is their madness.

        • Republicofscotland

          Chris.

          The war following WWIII will be fought with bows and arrows. I often wonder how many other races throughout the universe have pressed the self-destruct button.

          They say the dinosaur’s nemisis was a huge asteroid, no species stays on top forever, what will be our undoing I wonder?

        • Robert Crawford

          Chris, quite correct, but, who will they trade with afterwards?

          Will they be shot on sight when they emerge from their holes? If any one else gets lucky and survives, they might think they are king.

          Delusions of grandeur propels them along.

        • KingofWelshNoir

          But in the post nuclear apocalypse their wealth will be meaningless. All the things that previously constituted wealth, such as money, stocks, jewels, Old Master paintings etc. will be worthless and the new currency will be cigarettes, copper wire, medicines, sexual favours, bullets etc. Moreover, the location of these bunkers is well known, and the starving irradiated survivors will presumably work out the bunkers contain food. What will the super rich pay their security guards with?

          • Stu

            “What will the super rich pay their security guards with?”

            As Dr Strangelove suggested, young women.

            I agree with your general sentiment though. I read an entertaining article about Silicon Valley billionaires building homes in New Zealand in case of a nuclear strike. The notion that their staff wouldn’t continue to work for them after their dollar fortunes had been rendered non existent didn’t seem to have occurred to them.

          • KingofWelshNoir

            Stu

            I read that article and thought the same. They hire tough guy bodyguards to serve them but once law and order breaks down those tough guys will take whatever they want and will become the new rulers.

      • Don

        Good point, to paraphrase Orwell war only happens when the 1% profit, after all.

        My personal feeling is that nukes, for all their horrors have indeed managed to keep us from the next World War…would have been about 20 years after WWII otherwise, just time for a fresh lot of cannon fodder to be raised.

        The trick is keeping religious maniacs from using them….looking at Israel…

    • Brianfujisan

      RoS

      We went to a Scottish CND first showing the Stanislav Film, it’s one of the best films I have ever seen.. And Stanilave actually plays himself in most of it.. Even his conversation with Kevin Costner is Gripping stuff.then there is the very human side, with his ailing wife –

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p9XLOpLroM&t=82s

  • michael norton

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/welcome-to-raf-lakenheath-f-35a-lightning-iis-land-at-the-suffolk-air-base-for-training-deployment-1-4977418

    Maybe we are entering the Age of the Nutter

    EU could rethink Turkey ties – commissioner

    The EU warned membership candidate Turkey on Monday of a review and possible “redefinition” of ties after a referendum granted President Recep Tayyip Erdogan extra powers. The warning from Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn came days before ministers from the 28 EU countries are due to discuss the bloc’s troubled relationship with Ankara. “The time has come for a thorough assessment of EU-Turkey relations and perhaps redefinition,” Hahn said. The “current situation is not sustainable, neither for Turkey nor for us,” he said. “All options are open, including continuation of accession talks, of course. But for the latter, Turkey has to fulfill the criteria.” (AFP)

    —- —— ——
    when The United Kingdom gets the new American aircraft
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II
    ( now in Lakenheath)
    they will be serviced in TURKEY
    the land of the Nutter

    quite comforting – not.

    • D_Majestic

      There’s going to be a lot of F-35’s in Turkey, and very few on British airfields, I reckon. Anybody got a few spare Zippo flints?

    • Pyewacket

      Michael, In the concluding chapter of Peter Frankopan’s book; The Silk Roads: A New History of the World he discusses the emerging power and influence of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation (SCO). This is a trade and mutual security and development body made up of China, Russia, the former Soviet Stans, and most recently India & Pakistan. He also mentions that Turkey is very keen to join too. The resources controlled by these Nations is vast, and as yet largely untapped, although likely to be a game changer in the not so distant future.

  • Brianfujisan

    WMD’s in My river.. Independent to UK.. Not really.

    In theory, the Prime minister has the final say on whether to fire Trident and where to fire them..
    In practice the us owns the missiles and produces most of the warhead components. the us controls the software for firing the missiles, targeting them, and detonating them. And ecept in an undefined emergency situation, Trident is assinged to nato and under the command of a us general

    If it ever came to the point where the uk was considering launching it’s nuclear missiles at the us, there would be multiple ways the us could, and would prevent this from happening

    • Don

      I thought the missiles and warheads were under British control? For routine maintenance it’s likely US support is needed…hard to imagine May needing to ask permission to retaliate to an honest to god first strike, not that it was ever planned by the USSR!

  • reel guid

    O/T

    Another senior Tory advisor has quit. Hayden Allan, the Chancellor’s press chief, is leaving Downing Street. Following the departures of the PM’s advisors Loudon and Perrior last week.

    Is there something about this Tory election campaign that means these high flyers don’t want to have it on their CVs?

  • Geoffrey

    Of course Trident should be scrapped ! But to talk about a Fallon/May doctrine of ” pre-emptive nuclear war” is a bit silly ,and to say there is no point in having a nuclear capability is odd when we and Israel and the USA are trying so hard to stop Iran having one .

    • Robert Crawford

      Geoffrey, nuclear weapons are to-day’s equivalent of guns against bows and arrows, spear and boomerangs. Get it?

        • D_Majestic

          A considerable number of regulars here appear to have had all traces of a sense of humour surgically excised, J. In all their cases it would have been a very minor operation. Lol.

  • RobG

    The latest military actions by the USA has meant that the nuclear forces of Russia and China are now on a very high state of alert. Anything could set this hair-trigger off, such as the USA taking military action against North Korea. As I’ve said before, there’s a very real danger, fearing a nuclear first strike from the USA (and all the rhetoric from the batshit crazies in Washington shows that this is possible), that Russia and China will strike first, fearing for their own survival.

    I know Habba is a great fan of President Putin, so here is Putin talking to western journalists at an economic summit last year in St. Petersburg…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo

    Putin has also said that war between the industrialised nations is now unthinkable. Putin did not just mean nuclear weapons when he said this. Even if such a war stayed ‘conventional’ and did not go nuclear, 100s of nuclear power plants would be destroyed, and oil refineries and chemical plants, etc. The world would be totally poisoned by all this crap, and in that event they might as well go nuclear just to finish things off.

    We in the West are ruled by complete psychopaths and imbeciles.

    Beam me up, Scotty…

  • Gloria

    Craig you are too pessimistic about Corbyn and people’s awareness. Even if you are correct I don’t think it helps to sound so depressed. I’m not ‘ a hide your head in the sand ‘ person but this time I think people need encouragement to get out there and vote before the Tories totally destroy this country, working class people and the dispossessed. If people keep on hearing that Corbyn hasn’t a chance they will lose heart and will just give up.

    • Robert Crawford

      Gloria, just wait till Corbyn says,” QE for the people. Then they will be out in their millions.

    • RobG

      Gloria, here are the official results of yesterday’s French presidential election, by percentage of vote share:

      Macron 24.01%
      Le Pen 21.3%
      Fillon 20.01%
      Mélenchon 19.58%

      There’s not much more than 4 points between the top four candidates, and Le Pen only slightly sliced ahead of Fillon and Mélenchon (the fifth placed candidate, the Socialist Party contestant Hamon, got 6.36% of the vote). Whatever way it’s spun, this was a very close race, the closest I’ve seen in modern French history. Also notable is that it’s the first time since the 1950s that the two main French political parties, the Republicans and Socialists, have not been able to get a candidate through to the second round of a presidential election.

      My money was on Jean-Luc Mélenchon, so I’ll now eat my hat, but because it was all so close don’t rule anything out.

      What I’m trying to say is, elections in the UK are much more polarised, and with much fewer runners and riders.

      And anything can happen over the next six weeks.

      Take heart.

        • fwl

          And all parties / candidates accept the result with no allegations of cheating – v civilized.

      • laguerre

        So Macron ended up with more than a two-point lead over Le Pen. More than predicted. And a 20-point lead in the polls for the second round.

        So what will he do, if he as likely wins? As I noted earlier, he is young and goes for the vote of the young, but he is a bankster, descended from a family of doctors, bourgeois conservatives, in Amiens. All in all, it sounds like a good combination for finding a solution for France’s future. I’m positive on that. But of course I don’t know that he will actually do that.

        • Habbabkuk

          “All in all, it sounds like a good combination for finding a solution for France’s future.”
          ____________________

          I recall that Tony Blair was thought by many to have the solution for Britain’s future in 1997,

          Perhaps that is why some are of the opinion that M. Macron is the French Tony Blair?

      • Habbabkuk

        RobG and readers

        “Also notable is that it’s the first time since the 1950s that the two main French political parties, the Republicans and Socialists, have not been able to get a candidate through to the second round of a presidential election.”
        ____________________________

        The above sentence is inaccurate/badly drafted and should read as follows:

        “Also notable is that it’s the first time since *1965* that the two main French political parties, the Republicans and Socialists, have not BOTH been able to get a candidate through to the second round of a presidential election.”

        Rob’s reference to the “1950s” is completely wrong because, under the IVth Republic the President was elected by electoral college and not directly, and this was also the case for the election of the first President of the Vth Republic, elected in 1958. The first Presidential election under the present arrangements (direct election over two rounds) was that of 1965 (the Constitution of the Vth republic having been changed to this effect in 1962).

        In the interests of brevity I shall comment on Rob’s use of the term “Republicans”.

        • Habbabkuk

          Correction;

          that should have read ” since 1969 “.

          This is because the candidates in the second round of the 1969 Presidential election (owing to the stepping down of President De Gaulle) were Georges Pompidou and Alain Poher, a centrist and not a socialist. The socialist candidate, Gaston Defferre, with around 6% of the popular vote, did not make it past the first round.

          Hence Rob’s reference to the 1950s is still further from the facts.

    • Habbabkuk

      But, Gloria, as Anon1 has already pointed out, it is the “working class people” who vote Conservative – massively.

  • Bill Purves

    If any politicion thinks America would sell us100 odd nuclear missiles without them having overall control, think again

    • D_Majestic

      Not a chance in hell, Bill. Our ‘Special relationship’ probably doesn’t stretch anywhere near that far.

  • Becky Cohen

    Fallon has voted against every single human rights bill put forward to improve the lives of the British people. Guess this makes him an enemy of the British people then – how would he like the ‘business’ end of Trident turned to face his direction?;)

    • Brianfujisan

      Becky

      Amazing that this kind of Talk has not got the slightest bit of negative reaction from the MSM.. but plenty of the usual fawning..one would expect the Presstitutes so called experts to Know what the result of thermonuclear war would be.

  • Habbabkuk

    Laguerre

    You have written almost movingly about M. Macron. What would you reply to those people (there have been some on this blog) who say that M. Macron is a French Tony Blair?

    • John Goss

      “What would you reply to those people (there have been some on this blog) who say that M. Macron is a French Tony Blair?”

      Their faces are different but they have the same smarmy smile. 🙂

    • laguerre

      Ah yes, why not regard Macron in terms of someone else? A better argument would be to take him according to the evidence. I have no idea whether he will end up better than the previous. But at least the arguments are better (see my earlier posts).

      • John Goss

        I agree. Give the guy a chance.

        On the other hand I said something similar about Poroshenko, (revised the day after) and Donald Trump (revised a month after) and Tony Blair (revised long before his second term in office). No, I don’t trust him. After all he is a politician. There are generally a few corpses left behind when a politician gets to the head of his or her party, Jeremy Corbyn being an exception.

  • giyane

    “Russia… and anyway has an economy the size of the Spanish economy”
    By this logic Russia + China might present a problem. After all David Cameron allied himself with Nick Clegg to get into power and destroy Libya and Syria. Even George Bush would have been unable to attack Iraq without Blair. Saudi Arabia is currently in alliance with Israel against Yemen, and the whole world including Mrs May refuses to acknowledge Israel’s criminality in this partnership.

    Politics has no father. X + Y does not = B. The nuclear deterrent is predicated on it not being worthwhile for any combination of political components to try to work together. Brexit was an interesting example of the people choosing a worst possible scenario of economic collapse by leaving the EU, in order to prevent the monster of Federal Europe turning into Gorzilla.

    • J

      When forced to choose between two piles of steaming merde, isn’t it far from certain the French will do as they’re told and elect the media choice?

      • Don

        Remember the clothespins on noses when they voted for Mitterrand (I think) to keep LePen away from the nuke codes?

        Too bad the same couldn’t have done for US tRumpettes

  • Sharp Ears

    Theresa looked and sounded even more strange than usual in tonight’s PPB.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYtaVahX4kQ

    One of the comments (mostly derogatory LOL) says she looks like ‘Servalan in Blake 7’. As I have no knowledge of Blake 7, I can neither agree nor disagree. I did find a little of the script however and see what the commenter is getting at.

    ‘All those worlds could be yours, Avon , they’re there for the taking. You and I could build and Empire greater and more powerful than the Federation ever was, or ever could have been. At this point we could take history and shape it in our own image.’

    • J

      That was weird. I won’t thank you for it…

      It does however remind me of every public service announcement from every dystopian science fiction movie.

    • RobG

      Last year, when Theresa May became prime minister, and made her acceptance speech outside No.10, there was a noisy demonstration going on by DPAC, all clearly heard on the news broadcasts, and the presstitutes tried to downplay this demo.

      It tells you everything about Britain in the 21st century.

      Theresa will be appearing in an outskirts warehouse, under tight security, with a highly selected audience, sometime soon, as part of her ‘meet the people’ stuff during the election campaign.

      It’s so laughable it’s beyond belief.

  • Derek Aitken

    The very fact Fallon talks about preemptive strikes confirms to me that Westminster and the Americans will not allow an independent Scotland. As soon as the next referendum is announced there will be huge military presence in and around the nuclear submarine base like we have never seen and I would expect them to declare a state of emergency.
    They will not allow Scotland to take control of the weapons.
    I expect the security services to do everything to prevent a yes vote including as I suspect in the last one tampering with the ballot boxes and the count.
    I expect things to get very ugly.
    The military, police and security forces swear allegiance to the crown and will not be supporting independence.

  • Sharp Ears

    Desperation setting in.

    France elections: Le Pen steps aside as National Front leader
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39696861

    ‘Ms Le Pen said her decision had been made out of the “profound conviction” that the president of the republic must bring together all of the French people.

    “So, this evening, I am no longer the president of the National Front. I am the candidate for the French presidency,” she said.

    The BBC’s Hugh Schofield in Paris says this is a symbolic act intended to show her concerns are for the country as a whole and not for her party, and that she is reaching out for the voters of candidates defeated in the first round, particularly those of the Republicans’ François Fillon.’

    I thought it telling that the Parisian voters did not succumb to her racist hate and anti-immigrant message, In spite of the terrrrr incidents and the FFs and a large presence of immigrants. Le Pen only received 5% of the vote.

    • Habbabkuk

      This latest manoeuvre by Mme Le Pen is pathetic and will fool no one.

      Despite the hopes of some she is heading for a big defeat in the second round.

    • Habbabkuk

      Mind you, I should not be surprised if M, Macron wins by a smaller majority than did Chirac against Le Oen senior.

      This is because I should not be surprised if a number of Melenchon supporters will prefer Mme Le Pen over M. Macron in the second round.

      After all, what great difference separates the French extreme left from the French extreme right? Are they not both equally opposed to liberal democracy and the republican values?

      It may be significant that M. Melenchon has not – unlike the other major defeated candidates – yet called on his supporters to vote for M. Macron in the second round.

      • RobG

        For once, you are quite accurate in that.

        Macron is the Washington, neocon puppet.

        Mélenchon won’t tell his supporters to side with Le Pen, but he will probably advise them to vote against Macron.

        What a tangled ball of wool.

        And all on a few percentage points in the first round.

        • Habbabkuk

          I am accurate 99% of the time, RobG. The remaining 1% is normal human error.

          Could I ask you the same question which another commenter resident in France has declined to answer so far? It is:

          is M. Macron a French Tony Blair?

          • Iain Stewart

            (Or is Mr Blair an English Emmanuel Macron?)
            Macron’s programme may be summarised as:
            1. A more liberal economy;
            2. Reinforcement and respect of the European Union;
            3. Reduction of public expenditure and the civil service;
            4. Uniformisation of retirement, unemployment and maternity benefits;
            5. New rules to reduce parliamentary representatives and speed up legislation.

    • Habbabkuk

      “I thought it telling that the Parisian voters did not succumb to her racist hate and anti-immigrant message, In spite of the terrrrr incidents and the FFs and a large presence of immigrants.”
      _________________________

      Very reminiscent of the London voters not succumbing to the lure of Brexit? 🙂

  • RobG

    Quote:

    ” With Jean-Luc Mélenchon achieving around 20% of the vote, this is a historical performance for a candidate of the real left. After the 4 million votes in 2012, this time around 7 million people have voted for Jean-Luc Mélenchon. Only a few hundred thousand more votes would have been needed to get Mélenchon through to the second round.”

    http://www.humanite.fr/melenchon-realise-un-score-canon-635157
    (French language)

    In the pseudo democracies that are the USA and UK, the likes of Mélenchon would never be allowed anywhere near an election platform.

    This is obviously the difficulty for Jeremy Corbyn, who looks like a fascist compared to Mélenchon. I say this to all those on the left who knock Corbyn, who has to operate under incredibly constricted conditions in what is essentially a police state….

    http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/ruling-britannia-the-evidence-that-britain-is-legislating-it-way-to-authoritarianism/

    (all jollyed along by government trolls who post on boards like this)

    • Loony

      The French have the target in their sights – but will they pull the trigger?

      There is very little hope left, and the little that does exist is being snuffed out on a daily basis by the EU. France needs to vote for an anti EU candidate, or it signs its own death warrant.

      Those who think this is mere polemic – read this

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/the-corbyn-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comments

      That’s right it is an extract from a Goldman note published yesterday evening. Take a look at what has happened to stock markets today.

      Quite simply this is the EU collaborating with Goldman to assist them in transferring the last of the wealth of Europe (ex-Germany).to themselves.

      If you do not support Le Pen then never again whinge and whine about the power of the 1% or the fact that the wealth of 400 people is greater than the wealth of 50% of the global population. It is a rigged game – and people need to smash the table and fire the corrupt croupier.

      • michael norton

        I just can not understand how the People of France can be taken in by The Bankster?

        • Thorson Bloodaxe

          I understand that Karl Marx was once as enamoured of France as RobG. Then he learnt the truth and moved to London.

        • RobG

          Nor can I.

          I suppose we can say ‘the presstitutes’ (it’s much worse in France than it is in the UK).

      • RobG

        Until you understand that France, during the Second World War, was occupied by fascists, with much mayhem and murder, you will never understand the French psyche.

          • RobG

            Yes, they’re not ‘real people’, are they.

            It’s the first refuge of all racists.

            I can assure you that, generally speaking, the French are a lot less fucked-up than the Brits.

            A three hour lunchbreak; how civilised is that.

            But carry on running round the corporate hamster wheel whilst moaning about ‘immigrants’.

  • Thorson Bloodaxe

    “it would be equally wrong of me to argue that every single person who supports Trident is a blazing fascist”

    Hey, why change the habits of a lifetime? 🙂

    • John Goss

      “it would be equally wrong of me to argue that every single person who supports Trident is a blazing fascist”

      Well they can’t all be Thorson. 🙂

      • Thorson Bloodaxe

        Craig has no problem calling everybody a fascist most days; why not today? 🙂

    • glenn_uk

      Did you read Private Eye’s special, “Who bombed Lockerbie?” ?

      It seems pretty obvious that al-Megrahi was the fall-guy, and this was also obvious to everyone involved at high levels.

    • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

      The case for a retrial and his innocence is also, and most exceptionally, being made by thr families of a number of the victims, http://www.lockerbietruth.com
      Dr Jim Swire ,whose daughter died, gives me hope for humanity and even the Scottish legal system.No need to call for beam-up by Scottyish ship’s engineers yet,Rob

      • Pyewacket

        While we’re at it Operation Sandwood is hurtling along at slower than Glacial pace to get to the truth of the matter. Considering this was the deadliest terrorist incident to ever have occurred on the UK mainland, the SNP are remarkably quiet on the stitch up done by the Jock judiciary.

  • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

    A comparison of Macron and Pomidou is interesting not least in terms of their financial allegiances. La loi pompidou, (1973), which banned the Banque de France from providing credit to the Treasury(the state), led to a spiralling of government debt and helped end the “les trente glorieuses”.. This was similarly provided for in the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties concerning the ECB
    .I tried to find a link to G.P’s TV broadcast’,La belle France:c’est fini’ where the finger-wagging old hypocrite waned people to give up La Belle France(Les FoliesBegeres, .etc,.etc.)… for hard work and technologial revolution. I still remember it as a real political performance.
    A similar provision to La loi pompidou was craftily inserted into the Canada -EU trade agreement ,preventing the Bank of Canada from lending to government(as it had in the 1930’s, helping tide Canada over.

      • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

        Thanks for the link. I was trying to bring out the similarities of Pompidou(La Belle France; c’est fini ) and Macron ( there is no ‘French’ culture). On the interplay of the French and the European currents, a good chanson for you:
        Le Petain encore vert
        Est gaulliste au fond ,ca c’est clair
        Bon sang dit Laval
        Monsieur l’Marechal
        Votre Petainte
        Est bien mal enguelle!
        C’est vrai, lui dit l’aine
        Mais l’Jeune est bien empetaine

  • J

    A lot of commentators on France seem to missing the obvious parallels with the recent American elections, not least that by ignoring any real alternative to neo-liberal/neo-conservative orthodoxy, the corporatists in media and government have created a political vacuum, inevitably filled by the racists.

    On that note, didn’t Hitler also appear as an alternative to people crushed by war and ‘austerity’ to financiers and businessmen, the same who were nevertheless fully invested in his war machine? And didn’t he use the phantom of the other exactly as today? To divert attention from the real agenda of power, which is merely power.

    • glenn_uk

      What I don’t get is how the mainstream, respectable politicians and media can brush aside a huge swing towards anti-immigration parties – even though they happen to be rather unpleasant, and quite out of keeping with the general attitude of some particular country.

      Nobody else is taking the anti-immigration sentiment seriously. This large proportion of the people are called fools and racists by everyone except the part that _really does_ represent racists. It’s easier to dismiss people with such concerns than consider them, even though Brexit, Trump, a narrowly avoided Wilders and now Le Pen is the direct result.

      But again and again, what’s the response?

      “They came in a narrow second? Phew, that’s that problem done with! Matter closed.”

  • M Pierce

    Is macron the anti-Christ? Its very unusual to see the entire synagogue of satan rooting for someone, only Becky Coen has not chipped in yet !!

    • Habbabkuk

      Well, there are some people on here who seem very enthusiastic about M. Macron, including at least one member of that great bane of French society, the pontificating, Le Monde-reading, Parisian “academics” who make their living in the public sector while providing rather bad value for the taxpayer in so doing,

  • Sharp Ears

    Trump ramps it up. Trust he is not intending to push any buttons just yet. Has he had the White House bunker gilded and customized?

    ‘In an unusual move, the entire US Senate is being called to the White House for a briefing on North Korea.

    Washington has become increasingly concerned at North Korean missile and nuclear tests and threats to its neighbours and the US.

    The briefing, involving 100 senators as well as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Defence Secretary James Mattis, is being held on Wednesday.

    China, North Korea’s main ally, has called for restraint from all sides.

    China’s call came in a phone conversation between President Xi Jinping and President Donald Trump on Sunday. ‘

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39694640

    The dove of peace has taken cover.

    Mr Xi urged all parties to “maintain restraint and avoid actions that would increase tensions”, according to the Chinese foreign ministry.

  • Seydlitz

    Macron is their to represent the interests of the owning class,they will not allow any one to usurp his position by fair means or foul he will win the final ballot.

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