In my last post I set out the official Government account of the events in the Skripal Case. Here I examine the credibility of this story. Next week I shall look at alternative explanations.
Russia has a decade long secret programme of producing and stockpiling novichok nerve agents. It also has been training agents in secret assassination techniques, and British intelligence has a copy of the Russian training manual, which includes instruction on painting nerve agent on doorknobs.
The only backing for this statement by Boris Johnson is alleged “intelligence”, and unfortunately the “intelligence” about Russia’s secret novichok programme comes from exactly the same people who brought you the intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s WMD programme, proven liars. Furthermore, the question arises why Britain has been sitting on this intelligence for a decade and doing nothing about it, including not telling the OPCW inspectors who certified Russia’s chemical weapons stocks as dismantled.
If Russia really has a professional novichok assassin training programme, why was the assassination so badly botched? Surely in a decade of development they would have discovered that the alleged method of gel on doorknob did not work? And where is the training manual which Boris Johnson claimed to possess? Having told the world – including Russia -the UK has it, what is stopping the UK from producing it, with marks that could identify the specific copy erased?
The Russians chose to use this assassination programme to target Sergei Skripal, a double agent who had been released from jail in Russia some eight years previously.
It seems remarkable that the chosen target of an attempt that would blow the existence of a secret weapon and end the cover of a decade long programme, should be nobody more prominent than a middle ranking double agent who the Russians let out of jail years ago. If they wanted him dead they could have killed him then. Furthermore the attack on him would undermine all future possible spy swaps. Putin therefore, on this reading, was willing to sacrifice both the secrecy of the novichok programme and the spy swap card just to attack Sergei Skripal. That seems highly improbable.
Only the Russians can make novichok and only the Russians had a motive to attack the Skripals.
The nub of the British government’s approach has been the shocking willingness of the corporate and state media to parrot repeatedly the lie that the nerve agent was Russian made, even after Porton Down said they could not tell where it was made and the OPCW confirmed that finding. In fact, while the Soviet Union did develop the “novichok” class of nerve agents, the programme involved scientists from all over the Soviet Union, especially Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia, as I myself learnt when I visited the newly decommissioned Nukus testing facility in Uzbekistan in 2002.
Furthermore, it was the USA who decommissioned the facility and removed equipment back to the United States. At least two key scientists from the programme moved to the United States. Formulae for several novichok have been published for over a decade. The USA, UK and Iran have definitely synthesised a number of novichok formulae and almost certainly others have done so too. Dozens of states have the ability to produce novichok, as do many sophisticated non-state actors.
As for motive, the Russian motive might be revenge, but whether that really outweighs the international opprobrium incurred just ahead of the World Cup, in which so much prestige has been invested, is unclear.
What is certainly untrue is that only Russia has a motive. The obvious motive is to attempt to blame and discredit Russia. Those who might wish to do this include Ukraine and Georgia, with both of which Russia is in territorial dispute, and those states and jihadist groups with which Russia is in conflict in Syria. The NATO military industrial complex also obviously has a plain motive for fueling tension with Russia.
There is of course the possibility that Skripal was attacked by a private gangster interest with which he was in conflict, or that the attack was linked to Skripal’s MI6 handler Pablo Miller’s work on the Orbis/Steele Russiagate dossier on Donald Trump.
Plainly, the British governments statements that only Russia had the means and only Russia had the motive, are massive lies on both counts.
The Russians had been tapping the phone of Yulia Skripal. They decided to attack Sergei Skripal while his daughter was visiting from Moscow.
In an effort to shore up the government narrative, at the time of the Amesbury attack the security services put out through Pablo Miller’s long term friend, the BBC’s Mark Urban, that the Russians “may have been” tapping Yulia Skripal’s phone, and the claim that this was strong evidence that the Russians had indeed been behind the attack.
But think this through. If that were true, then the Russians deliberately attacked at a time when Yulia was in the UK rather than when Sergei was alone. Yet no motive has been adduced for an attack on Yulia or why they would attack while Yulia was visiting – they could have painted his doorknob with less fear of discovery anytime he was alone. Furthermore, it is pretty natural that Russian intelligence would tap the phone of Yulia, and of Sergei if they could. The family of double agents are normal targets. I have no doubt in the least, from decades of experience as a British diplomat, that GCHQ have been tapping Yulia’s phone. Indeed, if tapping of phones is seriously put forward as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.
Their trained assassin(s) painted a novichok on the doorknob of the Skripal house in the suburbs of Salisbury. Either before or after the attack, they entered a public place in the centre of Salisbury and left a sealed container of the novichok there.
The incompetence of the assassination beggars belief when compared to British claims of a long term production and training programme. The Russians built the heart of the International Space Station. They can kill an old bloke in Salisbury. Why did the Russians not know that the dose from the door handle was not fatal? Why would trained assassins leave crucial evidence lying around in a public place in Salisbury? Why would they be conducting any part of the operation with the novichok in a public area in central Salisbury?
Why did nobody see them painting the doorknob? This must have involved wearing protective gear, which would look out of place in a Salisbury suburb. With Skripal being resettled by MI6, and a former intelligence officer himself, it beggars belief that MI6 did not fit, as standard, some basic security including a security camera on his house.
The Skripals both touched the doorknob and both functioned perfectly normally for at least five hours, even able to eat and drink heartily. Then they were simultaneously and instantaneously struck down by the nerve agent, at a spot in the city centre coincidentally close to where the assassins left a sealed container of the novichok lying around. Even though the nerve agent was eight times more deadly than Sarin or VX, it did not kill the Skripals because it had been on the doorknob and affected by rain.
Why did they both touch the outside doorknob in exiting and closing the door? Why did the novichok act so very slowly, with evidently no feeling of ill health for at least five hours, and then how did it strike both down absolutely simultaneously, so that neither can call for help, despite their being different sexes, weights, ages, metabolisms and receiving random completely uncontrolled doses. The odds of that happening are virtually nil. And why was the nerve agent ultimately ineffective?
Detective Sergeant Bailey attended the Skripal house and was also poisoned by the doorknob, but more lightly. None of the other police who attended the house were affected.
Why was the Detective Sergeant affected and nobody else who attended the house, or the scene where the Skripals were found? Why was Bailey only lightly affected by this extremely deadly substance, of which a tiny amount can kill?
Four months later, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were rooting about in public parks, possibly looking for cigarette butts, and accidentally came into contact with the sealed container of a novichok. They were poisoned and Dawn Sturgess subsequently died.
If the nerve agent had survived four months because it was in a sealed container, why has this sealed container now mysteriously disappeared again? If Rowley and Sturgess had direct contact straight from the container, why did they not both die quickly? Why had four months searching of Salisbury and a massive police, security service and military operation not found this container, if Rowley and Sturgess could?
I am, with a few simple questions, demolishing what is the most ludicrous conspiracy theory I have ever heard – the Salisbury conspiracy theory being put forward by the British government and its corporate lackies.
My next post will consider some more plausible explanations of this affair.
How come it took ten days to find it?
The next episode of Trump’s European visit plays out tomorrow when he meets President Putin in Helsinki. On the agenda – Iran in Syria.
Israel must be obeyed.
Analysis: Iran role in Syria key item at Trump-Putin summit
12 hours ago
https://wtop.com/world/2018/07/analysis-iran-role-in-syria-key-item-at-trump-putin-summit-2/
I meant Monday with Poot’n as Trump calls him.. Golf comes first.
Trump didn’t get the news that it’s Syria again that calls the shots in Syria.
Well, There gose My Blockbuster First Novel.. Seven and a half years I worked on that, about my plot’s Hero, and Heroine finaly taking down the uk gov over lies anbout Novichok false flags.. the Gov beat me to it, the book wll never sell now, Bastards.
By the way Sharp Ears and Ben.
I did not go to Turberry today But have been down there a couple of years ago. I illegally parked in his car park cos one of the Ladies I was with buys into all the hype, and wanted a foto.
It’s utterly Obscene some of the Prices for that complex, Turnberry Lighthouse for Example.. Some say £5k per night, the Scotsmam was saying £ 7.5 K per night.. And a few miles down the coas is Girvan town.. a lot of Child poverty in Girvan and other parts of South ( and ) North Ayr.. £ 7.000 p/n
I Did Protest Trump today though, but in Glasgow’s George Square..Had My big Palestine flag raised two metters above me, huge turnout must have easy been over 20.000. and Like the Indy rally’s all carnival Smilling folk..Even more so in fact.
How come a March / rally with over 60.000 indy supporters don’t NEVER get the MsM camera treatment there were Tv cameras everywhere ..But we all know why.
Anyway – my wee Video from Today –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAWaxxS4VU
P.S Glorious Evening for DTRH oppening Up Here.
Cheers Brian. I like your posts and what you tell us.
Brian
I love Baby Blimp but could he be bigger/fatter next time,?
We now have the Case of the Abandoned Bottle …abandoned to appear like a miniature vodka tipple no doubt!
So . They find a bottle at an alkie’s rendezvous. Didn’t see that coming. ))
But really. Never mind the holes. There is almost nothing in this story that can be independently verified. Witnesses are held incommunicado or disappeared. The official secrets act, D-notices and reporting restrictions conceal half the picture. Evidence is destroyed or with-held. And the little we are fed comes mostly from anonymous sources which have been neither confirmed or denied by the Gov.
Beyond a monumental cover-up, I don’t what conclusions an be drawn.
Well said!
And I think that because of all uncertainty there is all reason to concentrate on what we know for certain when it comes to the big picture. As an example I am thinking of the T.M’s absurd ”back-up accusation” in the Parliament at the beginning of the Skripal case.
To Putin: Even if you should be able – in the few hours we have given to your disposal- to make it plausible that your government is not involved, we will still accuse you of poor control over this kind of dangerous substances, and still demand an explanation from you, and within the same number of hours, mind you!. ( Oh, and don’t count on any helpful information from us, BTW…).
Lack of control? Judging from one single portion of poison used?! When this poison could have its origin in the chaotic Russia of the 90-ties, or being imported by criminals to Russia from abroad, for that matter. (And when there is no certainty at all that Russians were involved, in the first place).
A normal, intelligent Russian diplomat would automatically translate this (and with perfect reason) into: ”Do not bother! We simply are trying to paint you in the worst possible colors to our population and to the world..We want the Western world to see in you an enemy – for our own reasons. And do not expect fair play, ha ha).
The question (to me at least) is just one: What are those reasons? Or shall we say, the geopolitical considerations behind the strong anti-Russian stances by the British Government. Since there is no territorial dispute etc, I can think of only one – apart from possibly a certain servility to U.S war-mongering circles, or an influence from the intelligence community (which seems eternally locked up in its small world of spy vs spy games) – and that is: Fear of being isolated if Russia and Western Europe should develope close and cosy ties, and in particular since the reasons for US military presence in W.Europe would then evaporate (together with an amount of British influence, needless to say).
(IMO this thinking is old-fashioned and may turn out very destructive in the long run. The UK would probably be wise to just embrace the new Russia and do everything to increase trade, technology exchange and good relations. Fashions is not constant and suddenly Russia will want Land-Rovers and Bentleys instead of Mercedes.. Take advantage of the historical ties and the sympathy and respect for England that always was typical for Russians. (I recently re-read Leskov’s tragic/visionary/funny masterpiece and was reminded). Forget the nervous small-mindedness of a Cameron or a May, say).
“We now have the Case of the Abandoned Bottle …abandoned to appear like a miniature vodka tipple no doubt!”
.
Don’t forget the label :
‘If found in Wiltshire, please return to Vlad Putin,c/o Kremlin, Russia.’
As Tom Petty sung..You don’t have to live like a Refugee, but. I always found camping in a field over 40 years….nearly 200 times, mainly at Festivals, but sometimes just out in the country.. Very good for the soul. It also keeps my wife and I fit. Are Big Country on in Scotland too? They are very good. Its raining a bit occasionally here in Derbyshire, and I didn’t bring my Wellies, and she is dressed as if we are going to a festival in Ibiza
Good luck with your Doune The Rabbit hole. We are all pretty much the same. Tony
Enjoy the meteors!
The bit that caught my eye…
““Officers from the investigation team have spoken to Charlie and will be speaking to him further to establish how he and Dawn came to be contaminated,” a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/novichok-salisbury-amesbury-source-bottle-nerve-agent-charlie-rowley-dawn-sturgess-a8446276.html
I must have missed the bit in the media when the same was asked of Sergei and Yulia. Can you imagine…”oh yeah, I thought the door knob felt a bit sticky, yeah, we both did…”
That’s the police for you nowadays. “How did you come to be contaminated?”.
If I were Charlie, I’d get a lawyer & take the 5th in the meantime.
Since when can anyone or any organisation stop brothers talking to each other. Yet the police banned Charlie’s brother asking anything about the source of poison. If the reason was to not upset Charlie why was it OK informing him straight away of his lady friends demise.
Did Charlie point to the container or did the investigators wait to see if Charlie had any recollection before proclaiming the source.
Things just don’t seem to be done in a transparent manner. Wouldn’t surprise me the container has “made in Russia” on it with a note from the Russian Ambassador “compliments of Russia”.
Keltro, you said “the police banned Charlie’s brother asking anything about the source of poison”. That is very interesting. May I ask for a source ?
OK : “Matthew Rowley said he was accompanied by a police officer during the visit to hospital and that he and his brother were not allowed to speak about what happened.”
It is here :
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/11/novichok-victim-charlie-rowley-speaks-to-police-nerve-agent
Thanks for this interesting remark, Keltro.
Not without good reason, either. Some of the MSN have alluded to the ‘murder weapon’ having been found. In any run-of-the-mill case, poor Charlie would be prime suspect, or as they say these days ‘a person of interest.’
Of course, this case is not ordinary, in that it was cracked months ago by Boris Johnson and the PM; and for now Charlie doesn’t fit in the frame.
Trumps smog will cover the court system with it’s own unique odor and choke the courts for decades
The GOP Legacy has been cast.
Grifting Ogres Party
Kim Jong Un’s half brother was poisoned at Kuala Lumpur airport in November 2017 by VX nerve agent. Porton Down invented and then produced VX ………… You know where I’m going with this .
It is often not about truth, though, zigzagwanderer, but the concealing of a cockup… that gets out of hand
>>If some of the poison had spilt on the bottle – how come the assailant hasn’t been reported dead?
Perhaps it wasn’t so much a spill as a deliberate swabbing with a q-tip, wearing gloves, followed by quick discard. It is entirely wrong to say elaborate training is needed to safely handle non-volatile toxic liquids. On the contrary, no training is needed, just commonsense and care.
Some organophosphates are gases to begin with and others evaporate quickly from liquid to gas phase. Those are very dangerous to handle outside of a glove box in a properly vented fume hood.
>>If the lady had thought it was a miniature vodka and swigged it right there and then she would have died on the spot?
A post-mortem has been scheduled for July 20th. The cause of death has not been formally determined; Ms Sturgess had numerous other recent hospitalizations.
Suicidal drinking of organophosphates is well-studied, as is accidental skin exposure in field and lab workers, though nothing is known about intestinal absorption of this particular novichok.
“According to World Health Organization estimates around 3 million poisoning cases with 220,000 deaths occur annually. About 99% of these deaths occur in developing countries. More recent studies suggests that the number of deaths may actually be around 300,000 with the annual number of deaths in China alone around 175,000. Organophosphorus (OP) compounds cause most self-poisoning deaths in southern and central India. [n parts of northern India, aluminium phosphide causes most deaths. Other pesticides used for self-poisoning include carbamates, organochlorines, and pyrethroids.] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1762001/
Is there an innocent explanation for the long delay in testing the highest priority object in the flat — intentional druggie bait that Mrs Marples proposed on this forum the very day of attack — and the possibility that the Police needed Charlie to explain what to look for, or even where it was hidden and where they got it?
Yes, not a word has been said about housekeeping at the Muggleston flat. Dawn was an experienced scavenges, not just of fags; Charlie may have practiced kerbside recycling of glass at the tony address. Where I live, those bins are 95% beer bottles and the like, not so much olive or jelly jars. And it is not at all unusual in the early morning to find someone picking through them, say for miniature residues. The flat might have had many shopping bags of near-empty miniatures awaiting a trip to the street on recycle fortnight. PD staff would have been less than thrilled to test all of them but eventually did.
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/recycling
Online ad: “Looking for 50 ml bottles for airplane travel, stocking stuffers, or your “cuteness overload” collection? Shop all of the miniature liquor bottles available at Spirits! These miniature liquor bottles are airline safe, cute as all getup and easy to throw a few in your pockets for cheap drinks at the club!
Original Met statement: “On Wednesday, 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury. It was taken to the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, Wiltshire, for tests.”
Doesn’t sound like it was found, then sat there waiting to be tested for nine days.
You seem to think we “Miss Marples” don’t know about miniatures.
But remember, if it is a Moskovskaya miniature, ask yourself who in Salisbury had just flown from Moscow?
If the FSB wanted to bring in novichok it would be in a diplomatic bag, it wouldn’t need disguising as something a daughter might bring as a present to her father.
If the bottle is the original and the contamination accidental, say as a result of hastily pouring some out on a bench, into a pint at the Mill Pub or onto an order of risote, then it would be quite risky for the assailant to walk over to QEG and discard the miniature without seriously contaminating themselves. Maybe they did and died somewhere without cause of death being determined but a drug overdose blamed. It is eight miles from the doorknob to park but just a few minutes from Zizzi’s.
A minor additional point: A single drop of nerve agent is reportedly enough to dispatch 10 people. Even the smallest of pure scent bottles would therefore contain enough to decimate the population of Salisbury. It will be interesting to see how this mysterious bottle is later described to the public, if at all.
Tom Smythe wrote:
“Is there an innocent explanation for the long delay in testing the highest priority object in the flat”
“If the bottle is the original and the contamination accidental . . . .”
How about, they simply took one of Charlie’s very many bottles and contaminated with some nasty stuff off-the-shelf stuff at Porton Down? In Europe’s largest and nastiest laboratory, 11 days is also more than enough to decant some liquid into a bottle ‘of a type produced in Russia.’ Et voila, they have found the source. A bottle of HP source. Who will ever be able to prove any different? The only facts of this case, which can be independently verified, can be listed on the back of a postage stamp.
Copy that Copydude. Claims of a nerve agent’s being involved in the Salisbury incident originated with the government, confirmation with PD, who in turn supplied samples to the OPCW. The identification of ‘Novichok’.as the culprit in the second instance comes courtesy of the Metropolitan Police, along with that of the evidence, again supported by PD. Charlie Rowley will no doubt suffer memory loss. The route to any ‘non-Russian’ scenario will be well and truly blocked off at every turn.
Airplane bottle of Vodka is a really great way to truck around town with your Novichoks with a bit of plausible deniability but ‘small’ bottle becomes a matter of perspective if you are a tiny ant or perhaps a fly on the wall of an assasination briefing the moment the Russian word for door is first mentioned.
The newspapers have lead me to believe that acts of insubordination would be dealt with harshly inside the russian intelligence apparatus even if it’s just second guessing the plan. But let us pretend for a moment that we’re smarter than top FSB officials in their realm of unique expertise and see where the kind of adjustments to the plan a rank amateur might propose would take us.
Every plan has challenges and risks. Too many video cameras? How about the door handle? Now there’s too many novichoks per milliliter. Nobody is going to question your bravery comrade no matter what you decide. It would be a shame to visit Salisbury for the first and last time and not see the beautiful cathedral.
Taking vodka out of your purse and pouring it into a glass of white wine in a pub or restaurant is generally not a normal thing to do. If anyone sees you do this, they will think this is odd behavior, but also they will think it’s none of their business and rather a private matter between you and your family doctor.
After doing what you came to England to do you immediately need to find a new home for the small bottle before it becomes a liability you need to explain in broken english to either law enforcement or to the hospital emergency room staff you are vomiting on.
If avoiding unpredictable drama is a consideration then merely tossing it into the bin may not meet target standards of tradecraft professionalism. Conveniently located nearby there is a place where you can take a small quantity of an already diluted hazardous substance and safely convert it into a remedy for duck ailments through the usual science of homeopathy.
NB: Please perform this mission as sober as you possibly can under the circumstances. Every tiny detail of the plan counts. Even the bottlecap. Especially the bottlecap.
Absorption of a chemical happens in the stomach, Tom…
You absorb breathed in oxygen in your stomach? Fascinating.
And Nicotine patches should be swallowed three times a day with food.
I was of course referring to swallowed chemicals, smart arses!
‘One swallow does not a summer make’ (especially when it shows up in October).
WikiLeaks Collaboration with Russian Intelligence: Based on these allegations, WikiLeaks was deeply involved in a Russian intelligence operation. One of the areas in which Wikileaks may be most exposed, under U.S. law, is the apparent advice it gave to the Russians on the significance and timing of some releases. Wikileaks told the Russians that it was important to release stolen documents about Clinton in early July “because the DNC is approaching and she will solidify bernie supporters behind her after.” The Russians responded, “ok … i see.” And Wikileaks explained the tactical importance further.
A few words of caution: The indictment does not allege that Wikileaks knew that it was engaging with Russian intelligence officers, and alleges instead that Wikileaks was communicating with “the Conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0.” That said, the exchanges between Wikileaks and the Russian front organization occurred well after the news media reported that Russians were behind the DNC hack..
FYI, maybe you ought to read this: https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/
Satellite latency is the argument ?
Sorry. Too many are tying knots in pretzels to get out of the oven.
Isn’t The Nation pro Israel?
FYI
https://www.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-lays-case-12-russian-officers-accused-hacking-democrats-2016-192737647.html
The word “satellite” does not occur in the article. Obviouly, you have not read it. The article describes, among other things, the assessment by VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity), a group of former US intelligence officers opposing the rogue actors within the US intelligence community. For example, VIPS correctly called out the Iraq WMD lie. The VIPS assessment of the Guccifer 2.0 identity is based on the work of The Forensicator, an anonymous analyst who performed a very detailed analysis of the Guccifer 2.0/Wikileaks data dumps. His/her work can be found at https://theforensicator.wordpress.com
Obviously they are using latency as a reason for confusing hacking with leaking. But I hope you remember both lead to Titanic sinking before it reaches the US.
TITANIC also not mentioned in article. Can you handle that?
No. Not really.
If you’re curious the file meta read write timestamps actually indicated a write bandwidth of about 33MB/s (not small b bits but Bytes) and anyone looking at it knows full well that’s not a network connection unless you got straight to platter gig or something. (though you could build it fairly easily most people won’t pay for that kinda latency even local network)
It’s more characteristic of a direct sequential write to a local USB 2.0 device.
Well at least we know who our friends are in the world. Those crazy neo-cons wanted to bust that sneaky China trying to run world trade down the silk road instead of the USUKIS shipping lanes. As Trump let slip today, if the UK is still linked to the EU, which is on the end of the silk road, then the US plugs into NATO partner Turkey to control the trade. If the UK continues to use the sea to exploit other countries which can undercut China the UK gets a special trade deal with the US.
The fucking Tory hard brexiteers, of whom the Donald so egregiously approves, challenge the Russia China Turkey Iran silk road monopoly. What is a monopoly? A trade which is so large that it affects all other trade. These rich tory tosspots who have spent the last ten years trying to take control of the old silk road through Syria had been told by Trump to ” fuck the EU ” and undercut the Turks by sea cargo from emerging economies. This was not original thought by the tory arse-wipes, but instructions from whoever put Trump in power.
Mrs May , having listened to what her own tory businesspeople wanted to do, which is to stay sucked down the vortex of cheap goods from China through Turkey by road, has now listened to what the POTUS’s organisers propose. We now know who Mrs May will listen to, the be-nappied trump, and to whom she will pass her baton of leadership to.
Does Trump give a sleeping fart for the cost to British citizens paying extra WTO tarrifs to the EU? No, he wants his closest ally, us, to launch a trade war against China by setting up a competition to the un-licenced, not-controlled by USUKIS, Turkish Silk Road. Are we stupid enough to do it? Well we were stupid enough to spend 30 years fighting Israel’s Muslim neighbours, so yes we are stupid enough to do Trumpies trade wars for him. We are very very very incredibly stupid to think that Tories might have had an original thought , or indeed been capable of thinking up anything new on this planet.
Thatcher followed the yanks down the liberalisation of the banks total disaster road, and May is ready to follow this racist simpleton into a 1930s slump. Given the choice between being led by a brainless orangatan or Erdogan, yes the choice is bleak indeed. However politicians are useless wind-bags and have been known to zoop off faster than a genie’s magic carpet. ” My father eats chappattis , my mother Irish stew, and so between the pair of them I don’t know what to do.”
“ What is a monopoly? A trade which is so large that it affects all other trade.“
Not even close. Why not look it up?
So, whilst most of you were talking about a conundrum that will never be solved, and most of you admit we will never know what happened in Salisbury, something quite wonderful happened in Ireland.
“The Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018, proposed by Senator Frances Black, seeks to ban the import of goods from Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories. If passed Ireland would be the first EU country to impose such a ban.
“The Government has opposed the bill but it received cross party support from Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and other parties and passed in the Seanad this week.”
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/israeli-minister-calls-for-immediate-closure-of-countrys-embassy-in-ireland-37114374.html
And now “ISRAEL’S defence minister has called for the “immediate” closure of the country’s embassy in Dublin…”
Anyway, back to your Novichoks and saving the world. Don’t let me distract you.
Yes good news there. Nevertheless, another Palestinian child, a boy aged 15, was shot and killed yesterday on the Gaza ‘border’.
‘Othman Rami Hellas, 15, was killed on Friday evening after being shot by an IDF sniper during yet another tense standoff along the border demarcation fence, Wafa News reported. Another 220 Palestinians suffered injuries from the live bullets and tear gas that were used to repel the protesters.’
https://www.rt.com/news/433014-gaza-march-100-days-killed/
and Israel bombed Southern Gaza.
‘Israeli warplanes have carried out a number of airstrikes against the southern part of the Gaza Strip, as the Tel Aviv regime continues with its acts of aggression against the besieged Palestinian coastal sliver.
The Israeli military said in a statement that in the early hours of Saturday, its warplanes hit several locations in Gaza including a tunnel and a number of bases purportedly belonging to the Palestinian Hamas resistance movement.’
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/07/14/568038/Palestine-Israel-warplane-Gaza-Strip-rocket-Hamas
You’ve got to be evil to willingly shoot kids. The IDF has eclipsed every mass shooter. Then they wonder why so many despise them?
Michael, I should amend that to – they do not care that so many despise them, they can simply put that down to the oft used phrase – “anti Semitism”, believing that they can use that phrase to demonise pro Palestinian activists and our politicians who make the wrong noises about Israel.
Distraction. That’s what you are all about. Go to Politics.ie forum and play with the other Newbury trolls,
What an odd accusation when I am the one all along who has been arguing that this whole trivial Skripal story has been nothing but a completely pointless and unresolvable distraction.
The one thing those discussing novichoks on here have in their favour is that there are plenty of others willing to do likewise. Lots of people dedicating themselves to stupid stuff doesn’t make the stuff any less stupid though.
Do you know that some of these people think their discussion might actually save the world? Seriously.
There’s a reason why so few people in academic and journalistic circles are willing to discuss these silly James Bond stories, d-notices aside. It’s not because they too are part of some dark conspiracy. It’s because they never, ever, lead anywhere.
The whole novichok thing may have been got up as a distraction, but when it pushes this country ever closer to conflict with the world’s 2nd largest nuclear power it is right and proper that some are pointing out the glaring inadequacies of the official narrative . In fact, polling shows a majority of the public are unconvinced by the government / mainstream media interpretation, despite it being the only one they have been fed
Part of the reason for that is that too many catastrophic lies have been told in recent years (Iraq, Libya, austerity) for there to be uniform, unthinking acceptance of the assurances of government and mainstream media.
But if you find any questioning of the official narrative too annoying, I suggest you stick to the 99.99% of media sources where there is no questioning.
“It’s because they never, ever, lead anywhere.”
That’s what sceptics and those involved said of ‘Watergate.’
“What an odd accusation when I am the one all along who has been arguing that this whole trivial Skripal story has been nothing but a completely pointless and unresolvable distraction…”
As the single most prolific poster on these threads, don’t you think you would be better employed making a single comment at the start of each thread telling us all how pointless it all is, and then devoting the rest of your valuable time to virtue-signalling your way up and down the streets of the town where you live, waving a badly-scrawled placard announcing your total opposition to rascism and facism?
Avigdor Lieberman is a grandstanding, blowhard, numptie. He is calling for the embassy closure knowing that it will not happen. The trade in goods that Ireland has prohibited is a fraction of total Ireland / Israeli trade and closing the embassy would damage this greater part. As an example, both countries are major manufacturing centres for Intel.
Just a cheap political playing at being Offence minister.
I know it’s kind of pointless to respond, but do you often go into pubs and say ‘whilst most of you were talking about football, something more important happened somewhere else’ …. anyway back to advising the England manager, don’t let me distract you?
You are a nothing of a distractor.
Thanks for the info.
P.S.
So you are back to commenting here full force?
How about some modest apologia from you, given your rant here a coupe of threads ago.
It does all seem to be all getting highly implausible. Even Mail readers are now laughing at the implausibility en masse and other right-wing news outlets daren’t even open their stories to comments. However, countering the conspiracy idea, is the fact intel agency salaries aren’t all that spectacular and why would such high crimes be worth going to jail for a long time for? The risk vs reward factor : what’s in it for such people? ‘Superior orders’ is no defence. What I’m saying is, why would it be worth it, surely it wouldn’t?
“‘Superior orders’ is no defence.”
It is when you consider the cost of living against redundancy.
Such a disgraceful episode and yet, Boris is squaring up to become our new PM and seems to have some support in the media. Thanks for a brilliant summary.
We need a general election, because the thought of Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson is just to frightening.
With Rees Mogg in charge, we could see the return of workhouses and debtors prisons, and Johnson would be the UK equivalent of Trump.
OT but whilst we in Britain are occupied with this story the war in Syria is probably drawing to an end. The SAA has liberated most of south Syria and it appears that the IS may well be evacuating the Al Tanf area and possibly also the Kurdish held north.
https://ejmagnier.com/2018/07/05/us-forces-leaving-al-tanfand-syria-russia-remains-in-the-levant/
There are also reported negotiations between the SG and the Kurds in the north about an agreement especially as the Kurds have now experienced the duplicitous behaviour of the ‘international coalition’.
Every country in the region — along with the USA and most Europeans countries — has royally shafted the Kurds at one time or another. One minute we give the Kurds encouragement, aid, sympathy, and guns; next minute we give guns to their enemies and stop taking their calls.
This has been going on for about 100 years. A lot has been going on in the region for a 100 years, though, when you think about it. It was about 100 years ago that we took an interest in middle eastern oil. Before that the area barely gets a mention in standard history books. Maybe we should stop measuring events there in years and start measuring in oil,… or blood.
True.
In fact, a lot has been going on in the region since the dawn of mankind.
P.S.
So you are back to commenting here full force?
How about some modest apologia from you, given your rant here a coupe of threads ago.
You expect an apology for what exactly? This should be fun…
The Syrian Kurds also played their cards badly. Initially they co-operated with the SG but then invited the US, I think it was due the battle of Kobane, when the SAA could not come to help because they were also in deep trouble at the time.
Yes I agree but what you say applies to everyone in the ME and KSA and Qatar should note.
“There’s a good chance that Charlie Rowley won’t be able to remember what happened, as Novichok causes short term memory loss” (@LBC)
I think there is an excellent chance Charlie won’t remember that bottle – in fact in this uncertain universe there are few things more certain.
But I do love how Novichok – a compound that apparently only Russia has manufactured and studied – has suddenly been assigned with another property: short term memory loss.
I can’t seem to find thaw tweet. Can you post a link, please? Perhaps it has been deleted.
I may have fallen for a troll, Steve!
https://twitter.com/tedtully/status/1017842854742372352
I dunno who LBC is, so may have missed an obvious ironical sub-context. Still these days it is so hard to distinguish between official announcements and sardonic piss takes, can you entirely blame me.
Short-term memory loss be damned. It’s designed to bring about total memory loss, aka death!
The combined forces of the British MSM:
“A senior government scientific source previously told journalists… the perpetrator of the original attack on Mr Skripal would have to be “highly trained”…”
Boris: “Well Ivan, now that we’ve carried out this highly-sophisticated assassination plot that will ultimately fail to kill its intended targets, what will we do with the tell-tale evidence that could ultimately lead directly back to our glorious leader Vlad? Will we dispose of it carefully and discreetly in a way to ensure that it will never be discovered?”
Ivan: “No Boris. I have a much better idea. Let’s hoy it into these bushes beside that abandoned stash of porn, where two jakeys will find it and contaminate themselves but nobody else.”
Boris: “Excellent idea Ivan. Why didn’t I think of that?”
As far as I can see, there are only three incontrovertible facts in this entire Novichok story:
(1) The Skripals have disappeared.
(2) the culprit was announced and retaliatory moves taken almost immediately and long before the investigation (such as it was) was complete (cf eg JFK, MLK, RFK, 9/11).
(3) the MSM are not investigating.
Apart from that, we have various pieces which we have no way of verifying and which fail to fit into a coherent hypothesis to explain what happened.
An excellent summary.
Good points.
No. 2 should now be considered a sure indication own rogue national state agencies were involved.
One coherent hypothesis is that the whole story is a government (British) concoction from beginning to end.
lol I doubt many on here will support this theory.
Reading back through the original case… The police were working on the hypothesis that the skripals were poisoned at Zizzis. After a week or so (to explain how the DC also got poisoned, the hypothesis switched to Skripals house. Why? Surely the policeman could have been poisoned at the scene in the park bench. I’m wondering whether the story changed to quell public concern about a very toxic poison in Salisbury city centre. The govt then saw a way to make political Capital out of this because they knew Jeremy Corbyn wouldn’t go with a plan to blame those pesky Russians, and politically it worked like a charm. Problem is they now had a ridiculous story to manage… And then the Skripals got better… And the absence of real evidence undermined the official story both at home and abroad. Meanwhile the real perps still had their potential murder weapon, and they could strike again. They must be caught, but concerns about public anxiety and maintaining political capital seem to have taken precedence. Cock up!
Yes, truthwillout, great point. If they’d stuck with the story of the Skripals being poisoned in a public place like the pub, restaurant or park, they’d have been forced to evacuate the entire area, quarantine a large number of people, and turn Salisbury city centre into a go-to zone, perhaps foras long as 50 years, if one of the experts recently quoted in the media can be believed.
It was kind of weird how they ruled out Zizzis in a day or two and then the media rambled on for weeks about air vents and mini drones. Made me wonder if I had been lied to my whole life about the theoretical possibility of putting poison into food.
Well said!
When it comes to the disappearance, I have wondered if this was the main purpose of the operation:
Former Colonel Skripal must have been hard to bring mentally out of balance, considering his background and long life. They say that he always showed a jovial and friendly side. In particular on this day, of course, when he was dining out with his beloved, newly arrived daughter… No, wait! He was agitated and showed an almost aggressive behavior in the restaurant, we hear. By a man like mr Skripal this can only have been caused by FEAR, if you ask me (probably mostly on behalf of the daughter). He knew that something was going to happen!
If I was in his place and had the knowledge that ”they are after me” what would I do? If ”they” were hitmen from a foreign country, I would at once seek protection and advice by my friends in the SS and by the police, no problem. But if the threat came from the ”employer” SS itself, I would have no idea what to do. (I could not exactly seek protection in the Russian Embassy, could I ..). I would need time to think, and would in the meantime seek the relative safety of crowded places, the old trick. In short: No returning home for an after-dinner nap, or something like that. Rather find some park-bench nearby….
Perhaps he just had got a secret warning: ”They have found out. They have decided to let you disappear”.
(What had they found out? Well, for example that he planned to try to get permission to spend the rest of his life in Russia, like some rumors will have it. They would undoubtedly consider it switching side, and Skripal may have collected a large amount of secret information of different kind while in England).
“(2) the culprit was announced and retaliatory moves taken almost immediately and long before the investigation (such as it was) was complete (cf eg JFK, MLK, RFK, 9/11).”
In this case the announcement and accusations were made even before the full facts were known let alone investigations started.
I got lucky and posted yesterday that the poisonings happened in Charlie’s flat. The deductive logic was quite simple. My post from yesterday is below….Now we know where it happened we have to figure out how…..Novi is a binary nerve agent whose components are normally stored in two separate containers. Potential users ie: the military – wouldn’t store Novi or other nerve agents as a mixed product. However, vials containing milligrams of pre-mixed novi may have been distributed to military installations to calibrate environmental testing and sampling equipment.
—————————
Geo spatial analysis is a valid crime analysis tool. Google earth shows Charlie Rowe’s Muggleton Road residence is 300 meters from the remote western corner of the Bascombe Down airbase. Bascome Down is one mile north of Porton Down. It is believed the #4 Green Bus from Salisbury dropped the couple off less than 150 meters from the Bascomb Down perimeter fence. Mr. Rowley and Ms. Sturgess walked from the bus stop to Mr. Rowley’s home. Both were overcome inside Mr. Rowley’s home the next day. The most obvious conclusion is the exposure occurred there. Prior to the 1997 convention banning chemical and bio weapons, were CBW agents stored at Bascombe Down? Ms. Sturgess took ill at 10 am…Mr. Rowley at approximately 6 pm. Mr. Rowley collapsed minutes after taking a shower and dressing. Did Ms. Sturgess shower and dress shortly before she collapsed? Did Mr. Rowley use the same towel Ms. Sturgess had used in the morning? Did Ms. Sturgess and Mr. Rowley receive their exposures by handling contaminated shoes before or after showering?
One Hundred Years of Chemical Warfare: Research, Deployment, Consequences, p. 86 (https://books.google.com/books?id=GNpCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA86):
In January 1917, prompted by the devastating effects of Germany’s mustard gas attack, Porton established a permanent laboratory for physiological tests on humans at nearby Boscombe Down Farm.
Secret Science: A Century of Poison Warfare and Human Experiments, p. 57 (https://books.google.com/books?id=r8dsCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA57):
Britain’s chemical warfare programme not only needed to be justified to the servicemen and the general public, but information about it had to be carefully controlled for reasons of national security. Those living near Porton, some of whom had been forcibly evicted from their homes during the Great War to allow for expansion of the testing ground, generally had little, if any, access to information about ongoing field trials, even when these affected their immediate environment and in some cases their own persons. Anticipating future gas attacks from the air, Porton had, as early as 1923, developed a retaliatory aircraft spraying device, which had ‘high casualty producing potential over large areas’. Further trials confirmed the possibility of effectively spraying mustard gas from planes flying at altitudes of up to 10,000 feet. During these trials harmless, coloured chemicals accidentally contaminated parts of the nearby Wiltshire countryside. In one case, a woman living close to Porton found pink spots all over the perambulator carrying her new-born baby. In another, the housewives of military personnel living near Boscombe Down aerodrome, 2 miles from Porton, were furious when one of Porton’s field trials stained all their washing. For the local community, the ‘Porton camp’, as it was known, provided employment and security for many, but it was also viewed with suspicion because of its secretive nature.
There is an especially nasty dig at Jeremy Corbyn on the Heil front page today.
https://news.sky.com/story/saturdays-national-newspaper-front-pages-11436355
The protest in London was not party political as they suggest – ‘rent a Leftie’ etc. Just people who object to Trump’s racist and misogynistic tendencies.
Whatever his personal feeling may be, it was not very statesman-like for someone likely to be prime minister very soon, willingly or not, to lead a protest attacking the US president as a person rather than US policies.
As for racialism, I have not observed any particular instances on the part of Trump, although he favors the salad -bowl type integration rather than the juicer -mixer advocated by Soros and Coudenhove-Kalergi.The definition of misogyny seems to be shiftin g from disliking /hating women to ‘disrespecting’ them with VP Mike Pence seeming very much in the first category at least in his avoidance of any interchange or even glance at Kim Jong Eun’s sister earlier this year whereas the Donald walked ahead of the Queen.
So, where does “grab them by the pussy” fit into your misogyny scale?
What, exactly, is misogynistic about truthfully describing the proclivities of highly hypergamous females in the presence of billionaire alpha-males?
The Heil should have changed it to “The statesman (Corbyn) and the Neanderthal”
This is akin to living ona planet similar to Planet of the Apes, where intelligence, empathy, caution and restraint are being demonised.
Last night I had a deadly dream, over the sea to Skye…
I dreamt that President Trump stood on the steps of Holyrood House holding hands with Quisling and declared for Scotland’s Independence.
Not likely. Not over Quisling’s dead body, as they say.
I don’t know which she despises more, Trump or Independence.
I trust that the “plausible explanations” include the most obvious: no one has died, no one was in contact with any nerve agent, nothing happened except for emergency services being called out.
Good points, except for the actuality that one person has now died.
Died of what exactly?
That’s for the Coroner to clarify I hope.
If this Inquest goes down the road of the Dr Kelly style Inquest then we ( and the MSM’s antennae should be raised ?) We shall see.
As far as I know all the first reports of the victims were flagged up as drug related and it was only much
later that the hospital ” discovered ” ( by what means we are not told ) that this was a chemical agent they were dealing with.
The Skripal’s first report stated that they were dealing with possible Fentanyl poisoning.
I take it that in order to know that, the Skripal’s must have been exhibiting Fentanyl poisoning symptoms?
They didn’t know what ” Novichock ” type symptoms were – so who informed them of what Novichock type symptons were and how to combat them?
I’m sure they didn’t go to the local pharmacy for advice on the matter.
If there was an antidote for Novichock administered then where did this antidote come from and how did they know it would work?
In order for the antidote to work then it is necessary to have the ” dote ” so to speak.
Who’s dote was it?
The Russian dote or a British one?
Would treating Fentanyl poisoning with a Novichock antidote make things better or worse?
All very weird stuff now as it’s gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.
What happens next is anybody’s guess.
If Trump gets a lightning invite to Salisbury Town Centre it will all make sense.
@ KEN KENN July 14, 2018 at 11:55
‘..That’s for the Coroner to clarify I hope…’
There’s Coroners for cases, just as there’s ‘horses for courses’.
Highly politicised cases such as this should ensure a ‘tame’ one.
‘Sorry, officer, I’m a bit deaf. What is it I should say she died of?’
True.
” Public interest ” is decided by non public interests.
It is never the public who decides these things.
That’s why we have politicians as they know best.
Taps side of nose knowingly.
The biggest hole in the story is the bottle.
1. Sergei is a trained intelligence officer, he must notice tiniest details – survived the attack.
2. Julia is able to translate from russian to english, to memorize her statement and recite it, her memory is OK – survived the attack.
3. Nick Bailey, officer – alive.
+ much time to get from them the list of potentially suspicious objects.
4. Charlie Rowley, conscious, speaking, able to identify his brother – survived the attack.
5. Sam Hobson, was with Charlie from morning till afternoon and saw Charlie when he fell ill – alive.
How it comes that police didn’t know what to look for? Having all those witnesses with exellent memory abilities?
It is 10 miles down a winding road from Salisbury to Amesbury. I think the police probably had Dawn under surveillance, especially if they saw her acting suspiciously on cctv on 4th March. Did she have the mystery bottle on the bus with her when she went from Salisbury to Amesbury? It looks like a possibility. Of course it confounded the cock up because the human anxiety was spread even further… Very difficult for localpllice if they were getting advice from the met and hmg
In most murder and attempted murder cases, authorities seem to be inclined to try to find the individual culprits. That to me is something not much mentioned by the UK authorities, MSM, or you yourself.
Not sure if FOIA exists in the UK (that prohibition on media mention suggests maybe not), but if this, that, and the other cases involved peoples trying or succeeding in murdering UK citizens, I’d think at the very least the local police would have an investigatory file. Trying to find the perpetrator(s). Via subpeonaing or searching for nearby cameras, canvassing witnesses, etc. Which is just basic police work, it would seem. No need to even take a position on Russia, novichok, etc. If there’s a victim, there must necessarily be a belligerent actor. An actual human.
Why hasn’t the UK locked down all flights, and/or done a massive investigation on recent arrivals, or other possible sleeper Russian assassin agents?
I have asked this question repeatedly before. It doesn’t seem to interest anyone, neither the police nor the commenters here. Yet I think it is a crucial question. With a killer on the loose especially after a second attempt, it is almost negligent of the authorities to keep saying that the risk is low and no one should worry. No photo fits, no suspects, no closure of borders and no appeal to witnesses. That is unless they know who did it
It’s interesting that the national news media has chosen not to publish how widespread things are happening across Wiltshire in connection with the recent poisonings. For example, my local paper yesterday published an article about police cars being taken off the streets in Chippenham and Semington (which are a long way from Amesbury/Salisbury) by specialists in protective suits. Makes you wonder how many other places are being affected and not reported. http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/16353005.emergency-service-cars-in-semington-and-chippenham-seized-in-relation-to-amesbury-novichok-poisoning/
Very interesting. Although I did find an article in the Independent regarding a car in Swindon
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/amesbury-novichok-incident-latest-car-swindon-dawn-sturgess-charlie-rowley-salisbury-a8440051.html
The BBC snd CH4 are interviewing anti Trump protestors, BBC radio Scotland are advertising the time and place of the Demos.
Normall treatment of anti war and independence demos is for the camera to focus on some eccentric, with camera angles that downplay the turnout.
Why are anti Trump protestors being treated differently from any other protestors that I can remember.
Because being anti-Trump is being on the side of the Establishment.
@ Rob Royston July 14, 2018 at 13:51
Not at all; it can mean ‘a plague on both their houses’, and that’s certainly what it means to me.
An explanation of how Trump is planning to destabilize Iran.
Bolton, MEK and Trump Iran Strategy
by Gary Leupp / July 13th, 2018
https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/07/bolton-mek-and-trump-iran-strategy/
Israeli politicians in the Likud government should be careful what they wish for. Perhaps President Putin will put Trump straight as Trump struts the globe with his huge and obscene entourage.
And as the author says, if it’s not Iran, it’s North Korea in the crosshairs.
Sharp Ears
July 14, 2018 at 09:55
“An explanation of how Trump is planning to destabilize Iran.”
Trump Or Clinton what is the difference?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HDagElYPY
@Sharp Ears, quite a good article, which shows exactly the plans of the warmongering NeoCon (New American Century) cabal, now led by John Bolton.
As the article correctly points out, most people in Iran view the MEK as traitors who fought with Saddam Hussein’s war against Iraq, a war which caused the slaughter of possibly millions of troops, including those tens of thousands of Iranian troops (and other citizens – Halabja for instance) who died due to chemical attacks, which were overseen by US advisors.
These were of course GENUINE chemical/nerve agent attacks.
The people of Iran are very proud of their history and culture, and although many of them do not agree fully with the regime in power, they would not hesitate to fight for their country if it was attacked.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2018/jul/12/steve-bell-on-donald-trumps-visit-to-the-uk-cartoon 🙂 🙂
and another from his colleague, Martin Rowson.
That’s Theresa who seems to have liquidized over the carpet with a very fierce Corgi at her side. There’s a strange looking snake around Trump’s neck and someone looking over his back. Is it Boris?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/picture/2018/jul/13/martin-rowson-on-trump-mercurial-uk-visit-cartoon
I have just noticed while reading some articles regarding the Salibury incident that the head of Counter Terrorism Policing was Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley. I assume this is a coincidence, and is no relation to Charlie Rowley.
I didn’t realise he was counter terrorism .
Look forward to your next post .
This is getting better than Agatha Christie.
Who dunnit may never be uncovered but it
certainly clears Putin -in this case at least-.
As you rightly point out Russia could have killed Skripal while in jail, in Russia ,for 8 years .
UK Plc selling ‘fek nuz’ to its citizens and the world ?! Soooo sad .