Epstein’s Death Must Be the Start, not the End, of the Investigation 382

There are a number of royal palaces and grand residences of former Presidents and Prime Ministers where the inhabitants have a little bit more spring in their step following the death of Jeffrey Epstein. The media is rushing to attach the label “conspiracy theory” to any thought that his death might not have been suicide. In my view, given that so many very powerful people will be relieved he is no longer in a position to sing, and given that he was in a maximum security jail following another alleged “suicide attempt” a week ago, it would be a very credulous person who did not view the question of who killed him an open one.

There has been a huge amount of obfuscation and misdirection on the activities of Epstein and his set. To my mind, the article which remains the best starting point for those new to the scandal is this one from Gawker.

Two days ago a federal court unsealed 2000 pages of documents related to the allegations against Epstein. Of these the most important appears to be a witness statement from Virginia Giuffre alleging that while a minor she had sex at Epstein’s direction with Senate Majority leader George Mitchell and former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, plus a variety of senior foreign politicians.

Epstein’s sexual activities and partying with young girls were carried out in full view of key friends, his domestic and office staff, his pilots and of course the participants. There is no shortage of potential witnesses. Several of these really ought to be taking great care – though if I were them I would certainly eschew any protection involving US security services or law enforcement. Ghislaine Maxwell might take heed of her father’s fate and avoid swimming for a few years.

(I am probably not the only one old enough to compare the many similarities between Robert Maxwell’s asset stripping career and that of Philip Green. The progress of society after thirty years of Thatcher, New Labour and returned Tories meaning that Green by contrast got no criminal charges and much bigger yachts.)

In the UK, Ms Giuffre’s alleged relationship with Prince Andrew has been mentioned in the media. In fact the evidence that she had a relationship with Prince Andrew of some sort is overwhelming. Here is some of the actual evidence from the court documents.

The age of heterosexual consent in England is 16 and there is no indication that Prince Andrew is doing anything illegal in this photograph in which Ms Giuffre is 17. Nor is the photo in itself evidence of sex, though it certainly is intimate. The notion however that Ms Giuffre was “lent out” to Andrew may have legal implications as she was flown into the country, allegedly for the purpose.

No satisfactory alternative explanation has been offered as to what might have been happening here, as Ms Guffre’s lawyers noted.

No further details appear in the documents to amplify Ms Giuffre’s claim that she was forced to have sex with a “well known Prime Minister”, other than to repeat the claim. But what is plain is that her tale is not entirely invention. Just how much more did Epstein know, and who might he have taken down with him?

The truth is that sexual abuse by the rich and famous transcends all political boundaries. Bill Clinton was very frequently on Epstein’s plane and Epstein joins the very long list of those connected to the Clintons who died in dubious circumstances.

Two coincidences – the first being the bruise marks on the neck sustained in Epstein’s first “suicide attempt” in jail – remind me of the case of John Ashe, the senior official very close to the Clintons who died with bruise marks on his neck, when he accidentally dropped his barbell on his throat while bench-pressing alone at home.

Ashe was charged and awaiting trial for receiving corrupt funds from businessman Ng Lap Seng while Ashe was serving in the USA’s turn as President of the UN General Assembly. Ng Lap Seng, a six time visitor to the Clinton White House, had previously been accused of making very large illegal donations to Clinton campaign funds, and was subsequently arrested while entering the USA with over US $4 million in cash. Unlike the Clintons, Ashe was charged with taking Seng’s money and rather like Epstein may have had an interesting song to sing while going down, had he not conveniently dropped the barbell on his throat.

I said that the first thing that jogged me to link the Epstein/Clinton and the Ashe/Clinton cases was the bruise marks on the throat. The second is that both stories have been debunked by self-proclaimed “conspiracy-busting” website Snopes – in a manner which shows that Snopes has no regard for the truth whatsoever.

In the case of John Ashe, Snopes wrote an utterly tendentious piece of “myth-busting” which stated that it was a myth that Ashe’s death occurred shortly before his trial and that he was not due to testify against the Clintons. Snopes failed to mention that Ashe, a very senior Clinton appointee, was charged with taking corrupt money from precisely the same man who had been very widely accused of giving corrupt money to the Clintons. And while it was true his trial was not imminent, his pre-trial deposition was.

In the Epstein/Clinton case Snopes wrote a piece debunking the notion that this is a photograph of Bill Clinton on Epstein’s private jet.

Snopes sets out to prove that this is not Epstein’s private jet but that of another billionaire, and that the girl is not Rachel Chandler. For the sake of argument I am prepared to accept what they say on both counts. But is the sensible reaction to that photo to say “Oh that’s OK it’s another billionaire’s jet” or to say “Why is Bill Clinton on a billionaire’s private jet in an intimate pose with a worryingly young female”? As with the Prince Andrew photo, although it has been circulating for years no alternative innocent explanation is on offer.

And the fact that this is another billionaire’s plane should open again the much wider question of networks of the rich and the powerful indulging each other’s passion for sexual exploitation of the young. It is a great shame that in the UK, the Establishment has been able to characterise the falsifications of Carl Beech as discrediting the entire notion of historical child sexual abuse. It is as though one person making up stories about a Bishop would mean there was never child exploitation in the Catholic Church.

The deeper question is why such a significant proportion of the rich and powerful have a propensity to want to assuage their sexual desires on the most vulnerable and powerless in society, as opposed to forming relationships among their peers. I suspect it is connected to the kind of sociopathy that leads somebody to seek or hoard power or wealth in the first place.

It is not necessary to develop that idea further, to understand that the Epstein case had given us a glimpse of criminal sexual behaviour which beyond doubt involves many powerful people. It is essential that the threads that can be grasped are now worked on assiduously to uncover the entire network.

I am afraid to say I suspect the chances of that actually happening are very slim indeed.


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382 thoughts on “Epstein’s Death Must Be the Start, not the End, of the Investigation

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  • RandomComment

    Absolute nonsense and bizarre conspiracy theory here. Next you’ll be telling me “Arkancide” is in your dictionary. As many prominent left-wing pundits have pointed out on Twitter, Trump with the aid of the Russians, ordered this hit, with his faithful poodle AG Barr.

    Just kidding. Spot on in every respect (and quite brave if I may say so). Thank you.

    • .Peter

      Of course it was the Russians. Who else? And of course it was Putin personally who instructed the guards to let his assassin into the cell. No Russians, and the world would be paradise….

      • Goose

        Now that’s a conspiracy theory the guardian and Codswallop could probably easily bite on.

        • John2o2o

          Goose don’t encourage them. I had to tell N_ off on the last thread for talking about cyberattacks. It’ll just give Luke Harding ideas.

          • N_

            They probably were cyberattacks, but the disruption caused by power cuts hasn’t stopped “carbon-free” propagandists from continuing to scream for us all to go all electric in our homes and transport. Surely some mistake? Not in loony land! “Smart fridges” to the rescue! Television sets that turn themselves off when you’re snoring because there’s no point showing advertisements to a person who’s asleep! And if your electric heating goes off, rub your hands together or jump up and down. That’s if you’ve got any energy left given that you haven’t been able to cook any food because your electric cooker won’t run.

        • Goose

          If the equivalent had happened in Russia, what the guardian dismisses today as ‘conspiracy theories’, would instead result in headlines like ‘All fingers point to the Kremlin after tycoon’s apparent suicide’.

          Luke Hardly and Carole Codswallop would get at least two columns a piece out of the story.

          • Deb O'Nair

            On Newsnight some weeks ago they ran a story about an imprisoned Putin opponent who claimed to have woken up with some sort of irritating rash on his face and they managed to spin it into more “evidence” of Putin the Poisoner trying to knock of an opponent in their cell.

          • Goose


            The guardian didn’t invent Russophobia, but they’ve owned it so long now, they probably have a good claim for adverse possession.

          • John2o2o


            lol, why are your pictures always mirror images? You don’t seem to notice. I had to reverse the image you linked to read it properly.

            lol, well, I never thought I’d find humour or Russians in this story, but these threads are magical places.

  • mike

    The Epstein story has dropped like a stone through the state broadcaster’s website. Give it another day and it will have vanished completely.

    The state broadcaster does not like to encourage “conspiracy theories” among the masses.

    • lysias

      I just listened to a repeat of CBS’s Sunday morning show, Face the Nation. It was all about gun control. Epstein barely came up.

    • Rhys Jaggar

      Given their absolute pro-female sexism, do you think they are worried about what forensic examination of that wonderful human being called Ghislaine Maxwell will do to trumped up self-serving feminists like Jess Phillips, Fiona Bruce, Fran Unsworth and the like?

      Ooo, not so whiter than white as a species, are you ladies?

  • Sharp Ears

    What a stench. Qs. Was Blair involved and who is the ‘well known Prime Minister’? Or is the latter a silly question?

    As bold as brass Air Miles Andy was at church in Balmoral today with his mother. How did he become so perverted?

    They are putting on a show of bravado. The ex is up there too.

    • lysias

      The very day David Kelly died, Tony Blair was in D.C. to address both Houses of Congress about the Iraq War. While in D.C., Blair stayed at the serendipitously named Blair House, a guest house of the U.S. government across the street from the White House, which is almost certainly connected by a tunnel with the White House grounds. That evening, there was a state dinner in honor of Blair at the White House. Male prostitute/phony journalist Guckert/Gannon had regular access to the Bush White at the time, as demonstrated by Secret Service records. That evening, he did not attend a meeting of a college society. His excuse to his fellow members: he was busy “entertaining” Tony Blair at the time. The next morning, in flight from D.C. to Tokyo, Blair was informed of the discovery of Kelly’s corpse.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ lysias August 11, 2019 at 18:24
        There are strong suspicions that ‘..Male prostitute/phony journalist Guckert/Gannon..’ is really Johnny Gosch, who was kidnapped whilst on his paper round and horribly abused. Even his mother considers the possibility of it being him (see ‘The Johnny Gosch Foundation’: http://johnnygosch.com/ ).
        Anybody interested in just how deep these rabbit holes go should read Cathy O’Brien’s and Mark Phillips’ ‘TranceFormation of America’ and ‘Acces Denied: For Reasons Of National Security’.
        For a taster, watch: ‘Cathy O’Brien Ex Illuminati Mind Control Victim MK Ultra The Granada Forum 10/31/96’:
        Some of the same major perps were involved in those cases as in the latest Epstein lot.

    • IrishU

      Perverted? Sounds like you must be in possession of some damning evidence to make such a claim. You should hand it to the authorities and prove the theory correct, no?

    • ciaran

      I do say Air Miles Andy does look rather pleased or is that relieved,
      as for the well known PM, the Israeli chap Ehmud what’s his name? kept getting mentioned in some of the sites I have seen, dare say he’s grinning like a cheshire cat also.

  • Brianfujisan

    Very Informative Craig, Thanks

    I too fear the story will fizzle out Fast.. Like the Undulating Currents of the Catholic church..and the bbC.

  • Goose

    Sounds like the modern day equivalent of the Hellfire Club. They probably never really went away, just evolved. It’s said that Stanley Kubrick’s Eyes Wide Shut pissed a lot of very important people off. Make of that what you will.

    On March 7, 1999, six days after screening a final cut of Eyes Wide Shut for his family and the stars, Kubrick died in his sleep.

      • Goose


        As explained above; before the official public release but after the final cut.

        On Youtube. If you watch the ceremony scene at the mansion, it’s alleged that’s from his own recollection of an event he attended.

        • Deb O'Nair

          The studio also cut about 20mins from the film – something Kubrick would never have stood for if he were alive.

  • Mist001

    I don’t know how anyone else feels but obviously, all websites are being monitored and whilst it’s very interesting to read other peoples views and opinions, I feel that it’s probably for the best if I shut up and don’t say anything about this whole situation. I personally feel that it could be quite dangerous to maybe say something about this which I may later come to regret.

    • RandomComment

      Well you can cower in a corner until they come for you! But I do get what you’re saying.

    • Republicofscotland

      “I personally feel that it could be quite dangerous to maybe say something about this which I may later come to regret.”

      Just add SNP in front of it, and I’m sure you’ll be fine.

    • Goose


      It’s like the stuff Craig explores, if(?)there are very bad things going on done by bad people, they’d be far more concerned about leaks from within than speculation from without. It’d be a far, far scarier place in those inner circles with privileged dangerous knowledge. With all due respects, some ‘random’ like me or you,speculating on the internet is like a dog barking at the moon, does the moon tremble?

    • Deb O'Nair

      “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.”

  • Simon

    “The Cabal have given up even pretending. They don’t care what ordinary people think. And they’re probably right. Because nobody will do anything about this flagrant flouting of the justice system which in America and most of the West has become a sick joke. In fact it’s quite possible that they’re so contemptuous of the ordinary person’s willingness and ability to react that they’re sending out a message: Don’t even think of stepping out of line.”

    • cimarrón

      August 11, 2019 at 17:26
      “The Cabal have given up even pretending. They don’t care what ordinary people think.”

      Karl Rove in The Bush Government, 2004:
      “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors… and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

      • Ralph

        rove(r) – as in dog – was spouting yank arrogance & pride, in line with PNAC (look it up) & Putin smashed the yanks in their dumbf*** mouths.

        • ciaran

          Karl Rove allegedly was involved in an earlier pedophile ring changing the realities of GHW Bush’s predilection for under age boys and making sure that certain things wouldn’t ever turn up in a court room. Epstein is the latest thing that the elite had to clean up or disapear.

  • Anthony

    Trump looked out of control in the clip the BBC showed of him with Epstein yesterday. Like a fox in mating season.

    • John A

      For all Trump’s faults and womanising, even his self-confessed ‘pussy-grabbing’ and how many East European wives, he has never struck me as a sexual predator of young women. Bill Clinton, I can well imagine, would have sex with any woman of any age, except perhaps, Hillary. As for Andrew, he is famously thick as two planks, and greedy. And the wording of the young girl as being ‘lent’ to Andrew is sickening, as though Epstein possessed a library of very young people.

      • Sharp Ears

        How would anyone know what Trump’s predilection for under age sex is. What was he doing in Epstein’s company?

        • lysias

          As a New York City real estate mogul, Trump needed funding. As a connected New York City financier, Epstein was in a position to provide it.

          Epstein’s 71st Street mansion is near Trump Tower. Plus, they both spend lots of time in Palm Beach.

        • Rhys Jaggar

          He attended many parties as a younger man.

          Any minor whose silence had been bought would know. There are allegations out there concerning multiple named minors that settlements in the millions of dollars bought thrir silence.

          I do not know and presume innocent until proven guilty, but in this area of human depravity, the Scottish court verdct ‘Not Proven’ might have many appropriate applications, although I am not saying it would be applicable to President Trump.

      • Andyoldlabour

        John A

        We know what Trump has said about his own daughter. Any person trying to put Trump on some kind of moral pedestal has lost the plot.

        • John A

          Dont put words into my mouth. I am certainly not putting Trump on any kind of pedestal. What I said was I don’t get the impression he is interested in very young girls. His daughter and the miss universe contestants etc., are all in their 20s or so. I may be wrong, of course, but that is my impression. Clinton and Biden, on the other hand, are definitely creepy.

  • Republicofscotland

    I’d imagine this kind of stuff involving heads of state, politicians actors the very wealthy etc has been going on for decades if not much longer.

    The difference is now we have more access to their illicit activities via the web.

  • PhilW

    Craig “The deeper question is why such a significant proportion of the rich and powerful have a propensity to want to assuage their sexual desires on the most vulnerable and powerless in society, as opposed to forming relationships among their peers.”

    Maybe it is the other way round – it is an advantage in becoming rich and powerful to be part of a club whose members all have something on one another. Anyone who controlled this club would be truly powerful.

    • Goose

      The lure of ‘forbidden fruit’ is tempting to those who can have everything and can pretty much afford anything. It’s a constant theme in Hollywood films eg. 8mm . The richer they are the more kinky they’ll go as they’ve probably experienced everything and are bored with ‘normal’.

      Look at drug use among the sons and daughters of the wealthy, how many have OD’ed on hard drugs.

      Tales of eastern European women being flown to certain Arab countries abound among the populations in those countries. Nobody knows what goes on behind the high, white walls , but they can guess. Look at Saddam Hussein’s playboy sons

      • Laguerre

        “Tales of eastern European women being flown to certain Arab countries abound among the populations in those countries. ”

        That’s simple prostitution, which ain’t going to stop any time soon, though a degree of slavery may be involved. There are a lot of Russian prostitutes in the Middle East. Just one step up from the Nepalese and other Asian serving maids who are thrown off balconies in Beirut for having offended their masters/mistresses. Working in the Gulf or Saudi is a sort of slavery anyway (including for Brits), as you have to surrender your passport to your employer, who can refuse to hand it back in the case of conflict.

      • PhilW

        Your ‘reply’ doesn’t really have anything to do with what I said, Goose.

        I am saying that the powerful promote those they can control (by potential blackmail).
        Those who are not susceptible to blackmail (like Corbyn) will be excluded.
        Eventually most rich and powerful people will be blackmailable.
        Hence high proportion of paedophiles amongst the powerful.

        • Goose


          Ok, sorry.

          Of course elites have their protégés and favourites. If some politician suddenly starts receiving effusive media praise, seemingly out of nowhere, you know someone is being pushed. The very wealthy and corporations probably aren’t prepared to let the democratic chips fall where they may. There is too much at stake to allow ‘risky’ govts to take over. These are economies worth trillions of dollars and pounds, were you seriously rich, or in a position of huge responsibility, you might find yourself on the side of those seeking to control events. WE aren’t in that position so we can’t comprehend. Countries can be too big to fail.

          I’m amazed Brexit is being ‘allowed’ to happen tbh.

          • Goose


            Well, it’s three years and counting since the ref -our 3rd PM and it hasn’t happened yet.

            Still very much in the balance imho. The UK may revoke Art.50 and/or hold another referendum.

        • foolisholdman

          It could go even further: maybe, only those who are blackmailable are allowed to occupy important positions. Anyone who aspires to such a position, may be approached by a representative of such a “club” and told if you want to rise, we can help you. We have very powerful friends. However, if you want our help, you have to do what we tell you to, even if it seems repugnant to you. Of course, you are free to refuse this offer, but if you do you can be sure that you will never achieve anything of significance. Then follows who knows what? Sex with minors? Human sacrifice? I don’t know, perhaps it is merely my sick phantasy.
          When I read the stories about Epstein & Maxwell and couple that to the stories about paedophile rings and stories about Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, I do wonder.

    • fredi

      Anyone who controlled this club would be truly powerful.

      Indeed, in this particular case that would be initially mosad then after 2008 the fbi.

  • Ros Thorpe

    Creepy people. Imagine having to lie down and sleep with yourself after that. More suicides needed here.

  • N_

    The notion however that Ms Giuffre was ‘lent out’ to Andrew may have legal implications as she was flown into the country, allegedly for the purpose.

    How old was she, which US state was she flown into, and what is the age of consent there? In some US states it is older than it is in Britain. In Florida it is 18, in New York 17.

    Being “lent out” implies ownership and the transport of slaves between countries for sexual or other purposes is trafficking and criminal on multiple counts.

  • notlurking

    I think the former New Mexico Governor referred to in the unsealed documents is Bill Richardson not Bill Mitchell…..good article…

    • bevin

      That’s George Mitchell, the leader of Democrats in the Senate, later NI negotiator and finally Mid East envoy for Obama.

  • N_

    “Buckingham Palace” is issuing denials on Prince Andrew’s behalf. So British taxpayers are paying for this. But we can’t check what the bill is, because the Freedom of Information Act doesn’t apply to “royal” affairs.

    • Mr Shigemitsu

      British taxpayers *do not fund* the Royal Family, or anything else.

      As with all UK public spending, the UK govt instructs the BoE to add some ones and zeroes to the reserve accounts of the bank of the initial recipients of public funding (in the case of the Firm, more than likely Coutts).

      When taxes are paid to the Exchequer, all that happens is that the requisite amount of one’s and zeroes are deleted from the BoE reserve account of the retail bank of the person or company paying the tax. Effectively the money is removed from the economy and destroyed, so the whole process can carry on without adding too much currency into the system, which would cause inflation very quickly.

      There really is no such thing as “taxpayers’ money; all net sterling assets emanate from govt spending. It’s government money, and issued into the economy in the manner described above every single day. However, if this issuance continued ad infinitum without taxation draining off the excess until almost all that prior money creation had been hoovered away by the Treasury, then that huge and growing pool of money chasing roughly the same amount of goods and services available in the economy would soon create massive inflation.

      Preventing this inflation is the main purpose of taxation when a fiat currency is in use, as well as to enforce the use of that otherwise worthless currency on pain of imprisonment or confiscation of property.

      You can argue that the Civil List is money that could be better spent elsewhere, but as money doesn’t stop at first use, the ultimate and main recipients of that spend will be those ordinary companies and individuals who provide goods and services to Her Maj & Co – but pretty much any public spending (which creates jobs and feeds money into the economy) is better than none.

      By all means object to the Monarchy as a system, slag off its more egregious members, and question the UK govts’ spending priorities, but you don’t need to feel that somehow it’s ‘your’ money that’s paying for it all, because it really isn’t.

      #Learn MMT

      • John A

        He means, we are paying the royal family’s legal bills. Where that money comes from is a separate matter. The royal family is probably the richest or amongst the richest families in the world. Yet, we paid to repair Windsor Castle, we are paying the 300million or more to update Buckingham Palace, we paid millions for the harry and meghan cottage renovation, the list goes on.

        • Mr Shigemitsu

          “We” are not paying a penny.

          I tried to explain to you in my post that *Govt created currency* pays for the Royal Family. And the NHS, State Benefits, the Armed Forces, Network Rail, Motorway maintenance, QE, Bank bailouts, etc etc etc

          Unless you are an actual employee, responsible for entering the ones and zeroes into reserve accounts at the BoE, “you” are not paying for anything.

          The money that the UK Govt paid to repair Windsor Castle went largely to members of those professions and trades involved in the restoration of Historic Buildings; architects, engineers, stonemasons, carpenters, decorators and fabric suppliers. I very much doubt Brenda saw a single penny. Same goes for Meghan and Harry’s cottage restoration.

          The UK Govt is not financially constrained; it is the monopoly issuer of the national currency, via its Central Bank, the BoE. The amount of pounds sterling it has at its disposal is theoretically infinite – like runs in a cricket match, or Tesco Club points.

          It is however, *resource* constrained by the availability of *real* resources in the economy (labour, materials, land, and energy).

          So, you could reasonably argue that the army of restorers and decorators who were employed at Windsor, and wherever on earth H&M’s cottage happens to be, could have been better employed on other historic buildings – but *not* that the currency spent on them belonged to anyone else other than the UK Govt, because, until they spent it into creation via the process I described in the above post, the money didn’t even exist!

          In addition, the fact that £300m(?) was spent on the Royal Family’s properties does not in any way preclude spending on other public purposes, because the UK Govt can never run out of pounds, and can buy anything at all – goods, services, energy or land – that is available for sale in Sterling.

          Please understand, I’m not a big fan of Monarchy as a system, and though I think Brenda has done a reasonable job, I do believe she should definitely have been elected to do it. She would have beaten anyone else hands down!

  • Alyson

    Trump has bought off several allegations since he acquired high office. I doubt any of this has occurred without his say so. He is the abuser and bully in chief, and his racism comes after his desire to humiliate vulnerable people. Children in handcuffs boarding buses are just the latest of his predilections

  • .Peter

    What about the good old days…remember “massive heart attack” of suspected spies, uncomfortable politicians or journalists etc?

  • N_

    The vilely pro-Brexit Express reports that the queen has “shown solidarity” with “Prince Andrew”, who for some reason does not seem to be being called “the Duke of York” in the media any more.

    Since the queen was important in winning the referendum for Leave, perhaps she won’t sack Boris Johnson if in order to force a crashout Brexit on 31 October he refuses to resign as prime minister after losing a vote of confidence in the Commons and then arranges for a general election to be held in November rather than before. But perhaps she will. Who knows? You’ve got to wonder who is playing what games.

    Meanwhile there has been a “chemical incident” in Worthing. Police set up a two-mile cordon on the seafront which has now been lifted. But perhaps an actor will be blamed for the incident and also for the ones last week that took Gatwick and Heathrow out of action and then King’s Cross three days later.

    DEFRA have said the cause was likely to have come from the English Channel. That was a quick investigation! Reportedly 150 people needed treatment after “gas engulfed the beach”.

    • Dungroanin

      This is similar to the incident last year when many were exposed to a toxic cloud coming in from the channel … no explanation was forthcoming then either.

      Very mysterious, where is our world renown expert in chemical and biological warfare Hamish DB-G when he is needed at home?

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Dungroanin August 12, 2019 at 11:12
        It wouldn’t be the first time noxious chemicals or even bio active agents were sprayed by ships and/or aircraft in experiments on the unsuspecting British public.

  • Keith McClary

    Epstein’s friends just lost any chance of having penthouse evidence tossed by courts — here’s why

    “The reason is that Epstein was the only person who had legal standing to sue the investigators trying to comb through the evidence in his mansions and penthouses, including videotapes of young girls and documents that may mention the names of people who were at his properties on specific dates. Had Epstein lived, and made it to trial, his attorneys could have filed motions to throw out that evidence. Now, however, no one has standing to put the brakes on the investigation.”


    • Paul Barbara

      @ Keith McClary August 11, 2019 at 20:17
      Investigation curtailed, for ‘Reasons of National Secerurity’.

  • Willie

    There is every chance that Prince Andrew is a paedophile. Birds of a feather flock together.

    Everything about Air Miles Andy suggests he is a lush with a penchant for young girls.

    That is how the rich and powerful operate, and Air Miles Andy, his chum Epstein, and many more are examples of this. Power also allow them to hide their behaviour .

    Treating someone’s young daughter as a piece of meat is what rich and powerful people do. Like the UK minister who used to lie and a glass table whilst prostitutes defecated above, this is how the elites operate. And yes, the police and security services were fully aware of Lord Busby’s predilections.

    Epstein’s death will indeed be welcomed .

  • Johny Conspiranoid

    “why such a significant proportion of the rich and powerful have a propensity to want to assuage their sexual desires on the most vulnerable and powerless in society,”
    Perhaps because if someone is vulnerable to blackmail their career could be helped along with a view to having an obedient servant in a position of power.

    • Goose

      That’s a great risk in society, any modern society. One not taken seriously by our unwritten constitution. In the US one agency can investigate another, but in the UK everything is left to honourable conduct and trust.

      It’s not hard to imagine a scenario, whereby in the course of their investigations, Intel agencies discover a Judge or senior politician as a particular predilection for something highly illegal. Do they seek to bring to justice or do they seek to own?

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Goose August 11, 2019 at 20:54
        Check out Kincora and MI5 – they allowed Kincora Boys School to be used for three years by high Northern Ireland personages, for purposes of gaining leverage over them.

  • Ruth

    ‘ It is a great shame that in the UK, the Establishment has been able to characterise the falsifications of Carl Beech as discrediting the entire notion of historical child sexual abuse.’

    That no doubt was its intended purpose,. It may be that Beech and the Met were working together to bring about the desired result, which
    would scupper allegations that there was a paedophile network run by the intelligence services using vulnerable children up and down the country as resources. Or it may be that Beech was entrapped for the same reasons.

    • Tom

      I agree with you. The Beech allegations were probably some kind of ‘aunt sally’ to prevent any further allegations.
      I used to find it strange that the Metropolitan Police and the BBC never seemed to defend themselves when their investigations were called into question, almost immediately eating humble pie. I suspect there is a lot in the idea that the police (and the BBC) collude in this kind of scandal, and that the tabloid bashing of the police and BBC is a smokescreen.

      • Ken Kenn

        It’s got be a a bit strange that within The Catholic Church – The Church of England – Charities – footballers and so on that child exploitation is rife yet among politicians and those dodgy characters they mix with it appears non existent.

        Everywhere but there.

        My view of Epstein is that he may not have made his money by being a brilliant financier/mathematician but made it by exploring the weaknesses of the rich and powerful and recording it.

        He may be dead ( or not?) but the evidence is still very much alive.

        The question is who’s got it and what are they going to do with it?

        • John A

          The evidence will get ‘lost’, just as Seth Rich’s laptop has been ‘lost’ by the police.

        • fredi

          The question is who’s got it and what are they going to do with it?

          In this particular case that would be initially been mosad then after 2008 the fbi.
          No doubt they will do what they always do, namely, black mail powerful people.

    • Rhys Jaggar

      Well, if the UK population really looks to the BBC, the Daily Mail etc as their source of authority, they deserve whatever they get.

      Go to http://www.iicsa.org.uk to read many detailed reports already compiled by Alexis Jay and her team on widespread child sexual abuse all over the country.

      Of course, that team is compromised by not being able to investigate Kincora Boys Home, but the arenas it is reporting on cover Nottinghamshire, private boarding schools, Rochdale, the church, Parliament and many, many others.

    • Yr Hen Gof

      Spot on Ruth.
      A not uncommon method of shutting down any further investigation.
      To add to the reluctance to inquire, the loss of documentation, the removal of evidence and witness statements from police premises and the whitewash of such as the North Wales Child Abuse Inquiry led by the William Hague appointed retired judge, Sir Ronald Waterhouse.
      Much of what is written in Dr Sally Baker’s blog covers this and more.

  • Tom

    It’s an interesting one. I can’t help feeling that Epstein was so well-connected he would not have been murdered and not so blatantly either. Perhaps the powers that be were desperate or perhaps it was a warning – but nevertheless it seems odd that any killers would court such widespread suspicions of foul play. Could this be a cover for the real conspiracy, possibly of Epstein being spirited away under a new identity or something else?
    The pictures of Andrew with both Epstein and the girl do not fit the narrative either. Would Andrew be locked into earnest conversation with a man who was (so the narrative goes) essentially his pimp? The picture with the girl sees Andrew looking nonplussed and slightly keeping his distance while the girl appears starstruck as would be natural had she just encountered a senior royal for the first time. And where the British security services were while Andrew was being (so it is claimed) duped by Epstein?
    No, the whole idea of members of the elite being flown to an island together to meet underage girls seems a little surreal. I hope it is all investigated thoroughly but to me it does not completely ring true in the form presented to us.

    • MJ

      “Could this be a cover for the real conspiracy, possibly of Epstein being spirited away under a new identity or something else?”

      Agreed. Very possible indeed. Disappearance rather than murder or suicide.

    • Mayeaux Wren

      Absolutely. Epstein didn’t have powerful enemies. He had powerful friends – friends willing to help a co-conspirator out, friends perfectly capable of arranging a charade of death, and propertied friends with so much real estate that even they might get confused as to exactly where he was hiding. “I forget. Is he in the Antilles or Guadalupe?” “The Antilles.” “Yes, but Lesser or Greater?”

      Besides which, think of all those simple and obvious movies where whomever is being threatened declares that upon the event of their death a solicitor will publish a load of documents. And what? This would never have occurred to Jeffrey Epstein? Of course it would have, no one ever accused him of being a dimwit. Perhaps best not to kill him then?

      So, option B. Not forgetting of course that those in the top tier of the corrupt need to be reassured that they will be looked after if things go sideways. After all, occasionally the real world does happen. But getting whacked is only for those who betray. Epstein didn’t do that. Thus he earns the carrot rather than the stick. And at his level the carrot is made of gold and crusted in diamonds.

      I’ve no doubt he’s having a very fine time in nothing short of five star luxury. And of course insofar as he supplied everyone with underage pussy for years and years, it’ll now be someone else’s turn to provide for him. No biggie.

      Meanwhile we rest easy knowing that the wicked get exactly what they deserve, not realising that Epstein is, with a sneer on his face, thinking precisely the same thought.

  • Unionist Media BDSM Club

    A few interesting facts about Donald Barr, father of the US Attorney General, and the GOP’s go-to coverup man:

    Donald Barr was in the OSS, which was the precursor to the CIA

    Donald Barr gave Epstein his first job as a math teacher in an elite, politically connected school, even though Epstein did not have any qualifications or even a college degree.

    Donald Barr wrote a book called Space Relations, about a race of aliens that are so rich they become bored with everything and start a sex slavery ring and are also aroused by fear.


    • Son of Liberty

      Actually, that used to really happen. The world wasn’t so formalized in the past. People could be given a job when they hadn’t accumulated a stack of degrees and certifications that proved to Human Resources that you could do the job. Back after World War 2, there are lots of stories of someone who walks in the door, talks to the boss, maybe already lives in the same town so people knew he was a good bloke, but generally convinces the boss that maybe he can do the job even though he freely admits he’s never done it before (honesty also used to count for something) and be given a chance ….. and then succeed. The world has changed a lot since those days. And of course, being from a good family or going to the good schools always have helped. If someone was willing to vouch for young Jeffrey, it certainly was possible. Especially since I’ve never heard anyone say that Jeffrey was bad at maths.

      • Yr Hen Gof

        Epstein left college in 1974, twenty nine years after the end of WW2.
        I went to secondary school in the 1960’s there wasn’t a single teacher there without a degree in their relevant subject and several of those from Oxford/Cambridge.
        Perhaps standards in a state school in Wales were higher than a private college in the USA, then perhaps they weren’t, since Epstein didn’t last two years before being dismissed.
        Still. time enough to make a few important associations; Alan Greenberg amongst them.

  • Michael Droy

    “The deeper question is why such a significant proportion of the rich and powerful have a propensity to want to assuage their sexual desires on the most vulnerable and powerless in society, as opposed to forming relationships among their peers. I suspect it is connected to the kind of sociopathy that leads somebody to seek or hoard power or wealth in the first place.”

    When they can sleep with Hillary and Sarah Ferguson?
    I wonder?

  • Son of Liberty

    Thanks Craig! Nice piece.

    The Hercule Poirot fan in me makes me think that the bruise marks aren’t really significant unless they are so identical that they indicate that the same weapon was used or the same hands were around the necks. If two people die with general bruise marks on their neck, that doesn’t really say that the same people were behind it. Unless they are so specific that they point to the same hitman being used in both cases and that connects them. I’m not saying both deaths aren’t suspicious, just that the deductions to follow don’t connect the two deaths unless there is something specific and identifiable.

    Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein connect with each other because they are both the errand boys of the really rich and powerful who certainly try, and often succeed, to control the world. Pam and Russ Martens at their WallStreetOnParade Blog have been trying to track what is seen in released documents about how Epstein made his money. One thing they found is that Epstein had early access to IPO’s that were going to pop. He and his firms, and a charity whose money he managed who’s records are public, got the stock for the opening price before it went on sale to the public, then made huge profits when he and his entities sold it on the first or second day after the stock had shot up on price on an initial pop. A nice way of the big money rewarding friends with easy money. Epstein also had very close ties to Bear Stearns. Thus, there are some real people with very real power who are also not exactly crying over the death of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Its interesting to live in a world where the one thing you can be certain of, because it has a proven record, is that corporate media are almost always lying to us. If there’s a sure bet, that’s probably the best I can think of.

    “”Government that governs closest to the people governs best.”
    -Thomas Jefferson”

    • craig Post author

      I wasn’t intending to imply that the bruise marks are a serious linkage in the forensic sense. It is simply what jogged my mind to remember John Ashe.

  • Laguerre

    Prostitution in itself, in my view, is not the problem. A woman should have the right to sell her body, if she needs to turn a penny. The problem comes with the after-effects, the slavery and pressures to continue. Berlusconi held many prostitute parties. The question here is the under-age of the participants. It is not paedophilia, that is sex with pre-pubescent children. Here it is sex with pubescent, but under-age, girls. Essentially, for a male, it is having sex with a woman who is not going to say no.

    • John2o2o

      I think that’s a bit naive Laguerre. Prostitution usually involves violent crime and drugs. Pimps. Personally I think it’s revolting. A lot of women who get involved in it have very little in the way of rights. It’s no way to live a life. Would you be happy if someone you loved became involved in the sex trade? I wouldn’t.

    • Jen

      The issue is that in many cases, the teenage girls were either kidnapped or lured into situations where they had no control over what was happening to their bodies and were subjected to repeated rape and the psychological traumas that repeated rape inflicts. The victim’s mind has to throw up various psychological defences to cope with the stress of repeated rape and the knowledge that she will be raped again and might be subjected to further physical and psychological abuse and pain.

      Plus the girls were targeted because they were very young and naive, usually sexually inexperienced, and they lacked the knowledge and maturity to be able to fight back. These characteristics are often enticing to men who want easy victims to overpower.

      So you are right in a sense, that prostitution is not the problem; the problem is sexual predation on easy and psychologically vulnerable victims.

  • Hatuey

    Funny to see people on here so circumspect with their comments and insinuations when The Washington Post and the president of the United States are amongst those casting aspersions and doubt on the official suicide story.

    Let me comfort you all by suggesting, again, that — outside of entertainment and serving to distract you from reality and other more important pursuits — very little that gets said on forums like this has any discernible or meaningful bearing on events.

    If I was in a less diplomatic frame of mind, I’d simply reassure you all that nobody anywhere really cares what you say on here.

    Mr. Murray, of course, is different. He’s worth discrediting because he is credible. That’s how it goes.

        • Yr Hen Gof

          Then why do you bother commenting at all?
          Wouldn’t it be wiser to simply spend your time on something altogether more rewarding?

          Many people comment because they feel their comments support other’s views, some because they hope to inform or question others’.
          Some to be entertained?

          Doubtless there are people who find commenting cathartic and of course there’ll be individuals or organisations whose purpose is entirely negative; to distract and disrupt any forum they join.
          What your personal motive is, I have no idea.

          Knowing now that you wish your comments to be dismissed in their entirety, I shall in future take you at your word.

    • Rhys Jaggar

      Hatuey, I can assure you that you do not need to run a website nor be an ex UK Ambassador to have the PTB show very great interest in you for expressing views dissenting from the Establishment narrative. I have had the ‘white van’ treatment (the van drives up as you leave home for work and leaves precisely as you arrive home, week after week). I have had the phone tapping treatment, the computer hacking treatment, even the buggers making a landlord move me from ground floor to third floor so they could be installed sith hijinx in the flst below to monitor my every computer activity (despite 18 months using internet cafes to stop simple surveillance at home). I have had the following in a car, the BBC miraculously being ready to interview me outside BBC Manchester and I have had the mobile phone tracking, the credit card monitoring etc etc.

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