163 thoughts on “The Best Writing on Bin Laden’s Death

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  • dreoilin

    I have no idea if it’s a fake, Angry, but does that man look left handed to you?
    Because the FBI claim he was left-handed:
    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/usama-bin-laden
    .
    The official story (stories!) and the dumping at sea reeks of a cover up. Perhaps when this grey-haired frail man appeared in his pyjamas — the man the USA managed to turn into Satan incarnate, although they never produced any evidence that he was responsible for 9/11 — the so-called wonder boys of the SEALs were so scared, they “took him down” with a whole lot more than two bullets in the head and one in the chest …
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    Maybe they fired so many that the corpse was unrecognisable, the head obliterated, and that’s why one of them had to lie down beside the body on the ground to estimate its height. And since they couldn’t ID him by his face, and he was obviously so full of bullets that it looked like panic by the SEALs, they dumped his body at sea, and then the White House claimed they had DNA evidence … And just how accurate is DNA identification when done via a half sister?
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    How could errors in the first official story be caused by “fog of war” if, as was admitted later, there was no firefight?
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    The story stinks. And unless you’re sitting in the White House right now, Angry, you know no more than I do. So stop trying so hard to sound superior and amused.
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    Interesting that you don’t comment on Chomsky’s take on things.

  • dreoilin

    “Pakistani authorities are reported to be considering demolishing Osama bin Laden’s hideout in the garrison town of Abbottabad to prevent it becoming a rallying point for extremists. While al-Qaeda has finally admitted bin Laden’s death, many Pakistanis are sceptical about claims the al-Qaeda chief was killed in the raid and question the White House’s decision not to release photos of his body. The US disposed of bin Laden’s body at sea so his grave wouldn’t become a shrine for extremists. But if the past few days are any guide, the al-Qaeda chief’s house has pulling power.
    [Heads up! Crime scene is about to go bye-bye even quicker than when Rudy Giuliani recycled and shipped the steel (evidence) from the exploded WTC!]”

    (CLG newsletter this morning)

  • angrysoba

    “Maybe they fired so many that the corpse was unrecognisable, the head obliterated, and that’s why one of them had to lie down beside the body on the ground to estimate its height.”
    .
    “After the information was relayed to Obama, he turned to his advisers and said: “We donated a $60 million helicopter to this operation. Could we not afford to buy a tape measure?””
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    “When Liars Murder a Dead Man”
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    That pretty much sums up the self-contradictory mindset of the conspiracy theorist.

  • YugoStiglitz

    dreoilin: “[Heads up! Crime scene is about to go bye-bye even quicker than when Rudy Giuliani recycled and shipped the steel (evidence) from the exploded WTC!]”

    If you believe this, not only are you a nutter, but you’re an ignorant nutter. The mayor of New York would never be able to order any action taken in or on a federal crime scene. You’re completely clueless when it comes to how government works – I suspect the same holds for your ignorant views of your own government. But you crave a nice, tidy package, so your bizarre thought process leads you to blaming Giuliani.

    How do you feel that Craig Murray regards you as a nutter? It’s not merely that he said you were “misguided” or that he disagreed with you – he called you a “nutter”!!!!! Does that sting?

  • dreoilin

    “so your bizarre thought process leads you to blaming Giuliani”
    .
    You’re misquoting, LarryStiglitz. Read it again. Watch out for where the inverted commas close, and thereafter where I wrote:
    –> (CLG newsletter this morning)
    What you attributed to me are the words of Lori Price, an American. (And the point of what I posted was not her comment, but the fact that the house may be demolished.) Now go away, you’re an unutterable bore.

  • YugoStiglitz

    dreoilin: i have no doubt that Lori Price, an American, is a very stupid person who is an insane conspiracy nut and doesn’t understand that the mayor of New York cannot interfere with a federal crime scene.

    And you’re the witless nut who quoted this Lori Price (so you say).

    I can’t keep track of what you were quoting – but it does seem that, in any event, you want to hijack Craig Murray’s blog to argue that 911 was an inside job.

    You’re a fucking nut. Go away.

  • evgueni

    Forget what the US govt may or may not be hiding, concentrate on what they are openly admitting. The president and other high ranking members of the US govt sent a team of assassins into a sovereign territory, to assassinate a man that is suspected of mass murder. Although he was found to be unarmed he was summarily executed. Other unarmed people were also murdered who were not even accused of any crime and just happened to get in the way.
    .
    Even if incontrovertible proof of OBL’s guilt were available, the assassins could not have been certain of the identity of the man that they found before them.
    .
    Our own ‘leaders’ have all expressed delight at these actions. The only cautious note was from the Archbishop of Canterbury but he is on the margins of the establishment. Is this patent contempt for humanity not enough to convince us that ‘democracy as we know it’ results in systemic rise of sociopaths to positions of power? How can we address this is the question worth asking, instead of the futile bickering over questions that cannot be answered and are at any rate irrelevant.

  • Clark

    BBC reporter Orla Guerin interviewed 50 people in Abbottabad. Only one believed that the man shown watching television in the videos released by the US was Osama bin Laden. One claimed to recognise the man shown as the owner of the house:
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078
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    The other videos appear to be old footage of Osama bin Laden. So yet again, we have no new evidence.

  • Clark

    Evgueni, you are absolutely right. I see no hope of any improvement in the UK. The result of the referendum to change the UK voting system shows that more than a 2:1 majority support the status quo of “strong” (ie top-heavy) government.

  • dreoilin

    “instead of the futile bickering over questions that cannot be answered and are at any rate irrelevant”
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    They’re not irrelevant. How are we supposed to convince enough people of the “systemic rise of sociopaths to positions of power” if we cannot demonstrate to them that they are being lied to and manipulated and treated with contempt.
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    Do you have any suggestions?

  • angrysoba

    “Anybody remember this?
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    CNN Fake Newscast.”
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    Ha ha! That’s brilliant!
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    I especially like the bit where one of them puts on a gas mask and the other puts on a helmet. It’s like something out of Naked Gun/Airplane.
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    Having said that, I don’t think it is evidence that the Gulf War didn’t happen.

  • spectral

    Few examples of “rescues” by the “finest” and coverup of Tillman’s murder, followed by the brainwashing campaign.
    .
    ABC
    Jessica Lynch
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    BBC
    Jessica Lynch
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    Linda Norgrove
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    Pat Tillman
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    Here is few fresh examples of Government lies and manipulations, told us by Government Media Outlets! But, they are in Damage Control mode – under pressure of evidences and hard facts.
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    Whether the Gov. hiding or admitting the facts is quite irrelevant. The public/constituents have been stupefied, and it is ongoing process. The Hitler’s Große Lüge is in the works. Once one understand that Facts No Longer Matter it will be easier to accept the reality – the nature of the ruling class. But, I guess this is just exercise of futility.
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    Stupidification and fearmongering is official policy of any government, but in particular of the Western ones, those who are loaded with military toys. It’s going from bed to worse Nearly half of people in Detroit cannot read. These kind of “news” you won’t find on first pages on Rupert Murdoch’s/Governement’s own media on both side of Atlantic ocean.

  • Clark

    Dreoilin, Evgueni’s point is that there is plenty to show contempt for the law in that which is openly admitted. Obama announced that justice had been done. But we have been shown no witnesses, no suspect, no body, no trial, no evidence of any sort, just the say-so of the US authorities, and THAT keeps changing. There is a claim of justice, but none of the components of justice. We need no further speculation or arguments to establish this.
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    I agree with you that the demonstration of deceit by governments would wake a lot of people up. But it is extremely worrying that so many people will accept murder and assassination as being “justice”.

  • Clark

    Actually, the article wrongly quotes its own source in saying that the antenna pointed north. It should say “west”. Here’s the article’s source:
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    https://joequinn.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/comboi.jpg
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    That would make Syracuse 3B plausible, I think, but I’d need better data and lots of maths to check that. Of course, it isn’t proof of anything. The dish could be misaligned or just stuck, and there are enough geostationary satellites that they’re pretty close together. Whatever, the low angle is pretty odd; it would be looking through lots of atmosphere.

  • evgueni

    Dreolin,
    you cannot convince people of anything with conspiracy theories. I think that talking conspiracy theories turns people off or confuses the issue. On the other hand there are enough undisputed facts to unite us in our recognition of our ‘leaders’ as insouciant uncaring callous bastards or worse.
    .
    The only thing that we are lacking is an idea that we can all subscribe to that would advance us towards a better way to govern ourselves. This need not be about the mechanics of government – AV vs PR vs some other. Democracy is as much about information as it is about how the legislature is elected. Did you see Assange’s interview on RT yesterday? I found a copy here: http://theswash.com/2011/05/08/julian-assange-rt-exclusive-interview-582011/
    Maybe the best opportunity for democratisation right now is with a new model for a national news medium, a sort of journalists’ cooperative that is legitimised by an annually re-elected editorial board.

  • Clark

    Evgueni, what do you do about the audience’s desire for sensationalism? A few years ago, I seem to remember, the weather forecasters tried an exercise in honesty. Instead of predicting sun or rain, they published percentage probabilities of predicted weather. The scheme was abandoned due to complaints from the public.
    .
    “I want to believe” – people want to be told what to think, to save themselves the effort, and so they can conform to a comfortable consensus. Honest media would not be popular at first.

  • dreoilin

    especially if e.g. 47 per cent of adults in the ‘Motor City’ are ‘functionally illiterate’.
    .
    Evgueni would need more than a “journalists’ cooperative”, he’d need mega TV channels. And they’d need to run more than the News, because life is tough enough. And who would finance the like?
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    “you cannot convince people of anything with conspiracy theories”
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    I don’t have conspiracy theories. I have plenty of questions, though. And I have anger. What gets people onto the streets? Sadness? No. Curiosity? No. Joy? Occasionally, in small numbers, for an afternoon. But anger, that gets them onto the streets. And unless people are prepared to get up off their backsides and get out onto the streets, kettling or no kettling, batons or no batons, tear gas or no tear gas, nothing will change. And unless they come out in sufficient numbers, nothing will change. And unless they stay on the streets and refuse to disperse, nothing will change. Tahrir Square demonstrated that – if it needed demonstrating.
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    I believe that nothing can be done other than through a massive campaign of civil disobedience by very committed people — people who have been moved to anger. Real anger. And something has to galvanise them, in large enough numbers. That’s why it’s important to try to get to the truth.
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    Perhaps Assange can play a role in that, assuming he is what he appears to be. And perhaps that’s why they fear him and Manning so much.

  • dreoilin

    “Dreoilin, Evgueni’s point is that there is plenty to show contempt for the law in that which is openly admitted. Obama announced that justice had been done. But we have been shown no witnesses, no suspect, no body, no trial, no evidence of any sort, just the say-so of the US authorities, and THAT keeps changing. There is a claim of justice, but none of the components of justice.”
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    I know, Clark. That’s why I have been tweeting that point ad nauseam for days.
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    And if you’re interested in the current state of play here, read Morgan Kelly in the Irish Times.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html
    .
    The Irish people still have not taken to the streets. It’s as if they are in a collective state of shock.

  • mark_golding

    I’m inclined to think not ‘a state of shock’ Dreoilin – more like a ‘guilt trip’ accompanied by a state of fear goaded by the politics of fear that if catastrophic austerity measures are not adopted immediately and implemented with martial discipline, then society will collapse from fiscal ruin.
    Meanwhile the economic and policy elites who caused the crisis by conceiving and deceiving us into wars of intended profit that utimately ended in quagmires, appear to be suffering no material penalty. Popular revolts from economic hardship now sweeping the Arab world are the new fear because revolts can easily spread to the West. Bin Laden has been buried in light of this new fear; the Karl Rove type manipulation of terror that Cronkite warned us about years ago is now irrelevent, left wing activism prevails.

  • evgueni

    Clark,
    the concept of probability is hard for humans to grasp intuitively (e.g. see Nassim Nicholas Taleb or Stuart Sutherland) so this may be the true reason for the failure of ‘nuanced’ weather forecasting.
    .
    Sensationalism – I am not so certain that the audiences really do desire it more than the truth. It may be just the next best thing to the truth, in the absence of the truth. Sensationalism then is just what is allowed to happen, a kind of product of ‘evolution by artificial selection’. To be sure we all like entertainment but we also have a curiosity for the facts. Anyway I think “Tony Blair accused of war crimes” would be a sensational enough headline..
    .
    As for wanting to believe – there are two things here, one is prejudice that is built-up through a lifetime of experience and can only be dispensed with on the time scale of human generations. The other is the ‘availability heuristic’ i.e. decision maker relying “upon knowledge that is readily available rather than examine other alternatives”. This is why the propaganda model is so effective and it is also why it is so important to create a viable alternative to the MSM that is similar in scope and resources but does not engage in bias by omission.

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