119 thoughts on “Pissing into the Wind

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  • Mary

    As for the desecrators of Afghan corpses, I see that two and possibly four are identified as snipers, that word again, from an outfit in N Carolina. ‘Camp Lejeune, North Carolina – a major military base. US media reported that the unit belonged to the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment.’
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    Apparently, the desecration is quite a common practice but not normally filmed.
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    The other day I read of this psychopath,Glen Kyle, another ‘sniper’ who has written a book called American Sniper. Should sell well in Amerika.
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    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/savages-seal-sniper-chris-kyle-tells-oreilly-his-thoughts-on-enemy-iraqis/
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    There is even a league table of snipers.

  • Mary

    Tariq Ali: “Urinating on the dead is bad enough, but what of those who do it on the living? ”
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    http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/01/12/tariq-ali/corps-values/
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    It’s now official. Urinating on dead insurgents, the US Marine Corps informs the world, is ‘not consistent with its core values’. I think we need a list of non-core values as soon as possible. Pissing on the dead is considered loathsome in most cultures, but clearly can be a morale-booster for demoralised troops in an occupied country where the war is going badly for western civilisation. What better way to assert civilisational values against the barbarians and win local hearts and minds? And why stop here? The next stage surely is to excrete on them and use their beards as toilet paper. That would enhance the value of the videos and might even win the innovators the Santorum Prize for Moral Superiority.
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    Urinating on the dead is bad enough, but what of those who do it on the living? One of the earlier complaints in this regard came from Gitmo (happy 10th birthday dear) prisoners who alleged that their guards pissed on them from above and that some of the drops fell not just on them, but the Korans they were reading. At the time nobody thought fit to say that such acts ‘were not consistent with core values’. Limited progress has been made. Why the employees of imperial powers feel obliged to act in such a way requires psychiatric investigation. During the British occupation of India it was common practice for British police officers to order their men (who included Muslims, Sikhs and ‘low-caste’ Hindus) to unbutton themselves and let fly at non-violent Gandhian protesters occupying railway tracks to enforce a strike and non-co-operation call by the Congress Party. Nobody talked about core values at that time. Most Indians knew what they were.

  • Yonatan

    The always eloquent Arthur Silber has a post on this very subject.
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    http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2012/01/varieties-of-pissing.html
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    It is long, but here is a quote:
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    “Rank these items in terms of the disgust you think they merit:
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    * The systematic destruction of a series of nations and their peoples over a period of many decades.

    * The murder of more than a million innocent people in a criminal war.
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    * The ongoing murders of people who do not (and most commonly could not) threaten the U.S., in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and on and on and on — in 120 countries around the globe.
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    * The claim that the U.S. Government has the “right” to murder anyone in the world for whatever reason it chooses — a “right,” I remind you, which the U.S. Government has actualized.
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    * Pissing on three dead bodies.
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    We refuse to speak about the first four items, but the guardians of our culture insist that they are sickened and outraged by the last one.”
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    To clarify, he is American, writing about Americans (‘We’).

  • Jives

    I wonder where America is in the league table of international opinion?
    Horror after horror.These “soldiers” betray the values America,ahem,supposedly,stands for.They act more like mall-rats who’ve been press-ganged into service as a result of America’s plundering of her own economy by her own so-called elites.Probably gorged on power-burgers,steroids,violent computer games and extreme porn.Then sent to foreign lands to go berserk in the name of “freedom and democracy”.
    It makes me sick.

  • TONY

    We all know militaries dehumanise people. With these barbarians the US Marines didn’t have too much work to do. How many more are there who have not been filmed? It emerged in the Wuterich trial (Haditha Massacre) yesterday that the US perpetrators urinated on the innocent victims, including children, after murdering them. Is it part of the training?

  • Passerby

    Our standards of ultimate evil have been calibrated by the despicable actions of the Nazi in Germany circa WWII, for the duration of the two decades these were in power. Among the many bench marks of Nazi evil; the documented incarcerations without trials, of masses of people, as well as the burning of the books have been recanted over and again.
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    Given that, in our times the US et al under the directions of the zionist neocon are killing those whom write books, as in the case of Iranian lecturers and scientists, as well as the existence of black prisons that are denied to exits, in addition to the plethora of the concentration camps; Gitmo, Bagram, Gaza, West Bank, etc. and the horrific facts concerning the renditions program.
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    Is it not time to recalibrate our standards of ultimate evil, seeing as the US and toadies have surpassed the degrees of barbarism and lawlessness, to the extent of rendering obsolete our outdated bench marks of ultimate evil set in the past?
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    What fucking excuses are to be found for the marines pissing on the dead corpses of young Afghan farmhands they have slaughtered? Although, some will advise; the dead Afghans loved ones ought to be grateful that the marauding barbarians did not mutilate the bodies of the “kill” for the sake of trophies and keep sakes.

  • Eddie-G

    I do like the way it is often uncritically reported that the dead Afghans are all Taliban fighters. Presumably they were shot for having a Wheelbarrow of Mass Destruction?
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    Still, I find it a bit difficult to get wound up about this particular video. Bad things, far worse than this, happen in wars; yet it’s the people who start wars who disregard this reality, so when one sees the likes of Hillary Clinton so piously condemning the urinators, that I find a whole lot more nauseating. These things happen as a direct consequence of decisions taken by the likes of Ms Clinton, and she must know that herself.

  • MerkinOnParis

    I find it interesting that the dead have been described as Taliban even though the American spokesman has yet to authenticate the video.
    Most likely these were innocent farmers that the Yankee heroes shot for fun.

  • Dale Martin

    Slightly off tangent but,,,,,,,,,,I once said that I thought it was possible that the state of Israel had been set up by Rothschild with a view to creating a flashpoint area for future conflict in the Middle East, with a view to profiting from war as Rothchild and Co have done on previous occasions and also as a way of weakening that area to make it easy for them to walk in and take control of the resources of that area. My logic in this was that as Rothschild and many other of these “Jewish” power brokers were Ashkenazi Jews and being not strictly genetic descendants of the original Jewish race in real biblical terms and also having made the conversion into the religion, I did not believe that they would seriously view themselves to be “biblically Jewish” and therefore would not logically believe that God had bestowed upon them the absolute right to occupy the region of Palestine. I still believe the logic of that argument is absolutely true, but also that the extreme Zionist movement that so obviously has control of the State of Israel, the majority of the worlds finance and the ever increasingly apparent control of the United States of America through which it influences and controls many other countries of the world, I believe they have established an insane belief of their chosen by God status and are working through influence of the USA to destroy/weaken the surrounding countries of Israel in the middle east to secure their position and increase it to a level of dominance in that area. The USA is totally dancing to the tune of Israel, whilst Israel is setting up operation Cast Lead 2 which will obviously bring about the slaughter of more innocent Palestinians and can be viewed as nothing more than yet another act of genocide, whilst Israel continues to provoke the Iranian government and people, the recent assassination of the Iranian scientist there is no doubt in my mind they were behind, whilst these insane Zionist extremists continue to do their best to provoke conflict the mighty USA sails part of its military fleet into that region and Obama continues to make soothing statements of US support for the security of Israel in that region, acts on the part of the USA that can be viewed as nothing more than encouragement and support of the extreme Zionist movement and there actions. At this point no countries external of the middle east have any right being there, the extreme Zionist movement that so obviously controls Israel has no intention of seeking peace and stability in that area, it seeks political and military dominance over that region and is displaying nothing but the desire to establish that, the only right, just and moral decision at this point (should have been done many years ago) is for a complete withdrawal of all external influence from the middle east and to allow the middle east to resolve its own issues. To me this is the only way to establish a real balance of power in the middle east and bring about eventual peace, the State of Israel is a nuclear state which would to a great extent prevent all those countries around it that have developed a hatred of it through its bully boy actions in that region from ever truly attempting to destroy it, but at the same time without the comfort of the might of the USA behind Israel, even with its nuclear capability the State of Israel would have to face its own limitations in that region because even if it were to launch them, a country such as Iran even without a nuclear capability has the ability to raise it to dust with the 300 or so conventional missiles it possesses. Peace in that region will only be established through the withdrawal of support for Israel, without that support they will be forced into a position of stalemate and will have to negotiate. Finally I would say this also, I do not believe that the extreme Zionist movement is anywhere near a majority in the Israeli population, in effect the USA dancing to the tune of that minority extremist Zionist movement maintains its dominance over the majority who are not but live in the State of Israel. By withdrawing that support it will also bring about an internal situation in Israel that may just likely see that extreme Zionist control removed by the people of Israel themselves. This needs doing now and the USA should immediately withdraw its war machine and support for Israel, if it does not then American and coalition forces peoples who become embroiled will be dying for a cause that that I truly believe is the creation of a small but ultra powerful Zionist Extremist movement.

  • writeon

    Marines are trained to be efficient killer-cogs in a roving killing machine, a juggernaut that rolls acoss the world, “taking out” bad guys. The Marine Corp isn’t a genteel, liberal, debating club, were young guys from the Midwest discuss the latest frontpage of the Guardian.

    It’s necessary to dehumanize the enemy in order to legitimize acts of murder which would otherwise be called heinous crimes. The ace sniper, isn’t a homicidal maniac, mass-murderer, but magically is turned into a hero, by a sick society that’s the source of the culture of barbarism which typifies American society and its out-of-control military.

    Babarism begins at home. The SS had their hands untied in the Ukraine and Poland, and this applies to the US military in Afghanistan. Not surprisingly an opnion poll carried out among US soldiers returned from Afghanistan found that at least one-third of them had never been told by their officers that they were obliged to treat Afghan civilians with respect and not abuse them in any way.

    The rot doesn’t though come from the bottom, but from the top in an army like the Marine Corp. The lead comes from the politicians, another glaring example of Obama’s appalling human-rights stance, like slaughtering civilians in their hundreds in drone attacks and ordering the assassination of even American citizens with due process or any accountability to US or international law. And now he’s signed into law the “right” for the President to imprison American citizens, (this already applies to foreigners), for ever, without charge or trial.

    This contempt for human life and the bodies of the dead, is just the tip of the iceberg. It symbolizes what the American military empire, which is about all they’ve got left, is doing to the entire world. They are pissing on the world.

    And it’s not just a few bad apples, it’s the barrel that’s rotten.

  • craig Post author

    Dale,

    I think that you vastly overestimate the historic power and significance of the Rothschilds, and I also think that it is simply not true that Zionists control the world’s finances. That zionists have very excessive political influence relates to a number of factors, including the profound psychological impact of holocaust guilt, the extraordinary political power of apocalyptic christians in the United States and indeed the determined organisation of zionist sections of the wealthy and successful Jewish community, and their willigness to put their money into “sponsoring” politicians, to put it politely.

    But there is a rational analysis, and another one that posits cabals of evil jewish bankers led by the Rothschilds, who control pretty much everything. Dangerous nonsense. I met the then head (not sure if he still is around) of the whole Rothschild family, in Warsaw about 16 years ago. A very pleasant man, not fanatical about anything, including Israel.

  • Dale Martin

    Well Craig, firstly the Rothschilds certainly had a huge influence and were pretty much largely instrumental in the establishment of a State of Israel in Palestine and throughout time have made many considerable financial “charitable” donations that funded Israeli projects that were controversial and inflammatory to the Islamics in that region. They and their group of friends have funded and profited from many great ward in the world Secondly and I don`t mean to be offensive, but you consider that because you met a guy 16 years ago, spent a short while with him and he came across as pleasant and none fanatical about anything that you truly know the man and his inner working? Aaron Russo met Rockerfeller, found him to be a thoroughly nice and pleasant man, struck up a friendship, socialised and played golf with him and then one day when the true Rockerfeller emerged broke ties with him and did not like his thought process or behind the scenes agenda. I once knew a guy that in all sincerity I believed was a nice and amiable person, I had known him for many years when younger and continued to see him regularly in adulthood…… He was convicted of stabbing a woman over 40 times! Sincerely Craig, just because you once met a guy is absolutely no basis for even beginning to think you know him.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    Have there actually been any indications that these thugs were ordered to do what they did by their superior commanders?
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    Considering the grounds from where recruitment of US marines is made it is no surprise that some of these marines have had limited choice (either to join marine corps or join one of the gangs in their area). Of course they are provided some sort of training on moral principles and behaviour at war but those who have been at war know that although marines suppose to fight for their glorious country they actually fight for their own survival.
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    The only indication whether these actions are related to the top American idealogy of this time is whether or not these thugs will be convicted for their immoral behaviour that is not actually benefiting American image. Although considering how religious Americans generally are it might become obvious that urinating on dead bodies is something that would sicken even the most Muslim-hating Americans.

  • Dale Martin

    Craig,,,,, I knew a guy for many years, saw him on a regular basis and in all sincerity he was outwardly a very polite, pleasant and amiable person. He was convicted of stabbing a lady over 40 times. Just because you met a person 16 years ago and found him in the short period of time you had contact with him to be pleasant and not appear fanatical on anything does not man you knew him at all or that you have the faintest clue as to what kind of person he really was. The Rothschilds were certainly very instrumental in the establishment of the State of Israel in Palestine, they have made many large and very substantial financial donations to it, many of which went on to fund projects that were most certainly inflammatory to the Islamics in that area. People do not donate to causes unless they are both in support of and morally happy with them. It is also pretty much irrefutable that the Rothschild dynasty has funded a great deal of the wars on this planet and more importantly been perfectly happy to make vast profit from them, so lets not kid ourselves that they are in any way disturbed by the notion of wholesale slaughter because they are more than happy to profit from it…………….

  • writeon

    My ancestors, though to a far lesser extent, included an interesting, convinient, mutually profitable, mix of what one probably describe as Christian “soldiers of fortune”, though not so “Christian” that you would have noticed it, and “Jewish financiers”, though not so Jewish one would have noticed it; more importantly, they never let their backgrounds get in the way of their primary family characteristic which was a talent, if that’s the right word, for making money from the arms trade, though often the soldiering side got bit difficult, as they often found themselves on opposite sides. This culminated in WW1/WW2, (which I tend to see as one, long, war) when, if I remember correctly, various members found themselves participating on the German, Austrian, Russian, British, French, and American sides. This tends to make one rather cynical about war and its evil twin, nationalism. Which is probably why whenever I see a flag I see a futtering shroud as well… waiting.

  • writeon

    Throughout history soldiers and armies have behaved abominably, as individuals or collectively. But rarely do soldiers commit obvious crimes without the permission, tacit or otherwise of their superiors. An army would be given leave by their king to sack a town or city and rape and pillage at will. Even something like the Mai Lay massacre wasn’t unique, there were literally hundreds of Mai Lay’s, a result of the anti-guerrilla tactics employed by the US Army in Vietnam, condoned by the military leadership and ignored by the political leadership in Washington. Soldiers get away with what they are allowed to get away with by their commanders, the responsibility always goes upwards, and the orders come down. Though, as with the horrors of Abu Ghraib and the secret torture network, the politicians can always wash their hands and pretend they know nothing about it, that the results of the stuctures they put in place has nothing to do with them directly. Hitler would have made the same excuses.

  • Jon

    @Dale – would you paragraph your posts? Quite hard to follow otherwise! It’s a bit broken here, so many people tend to put in return,dot,return to break things up a bit.
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    Like so 🙂

  • Dale Martin

    Writeon,,,,,,, Totally agree with you on nationalism, I personally despise the notion that I have a belonging to anything other than being human and living on this planet. Nationalism is and always has been the one guaranteed switch that the power brokers have been able to flick in order to unite people into a cause regardless of how irrational and immoral that cause may fundamentally be. As far as power goes in this world and the players who participate in it goes, power is a layer layer cake and the further up you go in that cake the more influence you have over events that determine effect upon those that exist in the layers below you, right at the top of the cake are the few that through virtue of the power and influence they have, have the position to influence the main direction of the whole game that is being played all the way down the layers of the cake. The position at the top changes over time, one thing that is always sure as you climb up through the ranks of power is that at some point that power will be taken away from you by someone else, no person, political movement or power base of individuals will retain power forever, but they sure will create havoc, death and destruction on a huge level at the top of the layer cake if they are not averse to it and find it acceptable collateral damage in the furtherance of their own gain and interest. Why in the hell we ordinary everyday people have continued to play this game so willingly and for so long is beyond my understanding.

  • Dale Martin

    Jon,,,,,,,, lol,,,,,,,,,, I will ensure paragraphing is performed in future. lol In all honesty I am that used to posting in facebook, where the comments do not allow paragraphing, that in here where I can I had honestly overlooked doing so lol.

  • Tom Welsh

    The Taliban are not the ignorant hicks some Americans think. (Well, not all of them at least). They know very well that pissing on dead enemies ranks very low on the historic scale of American military atrocities. To take just a handful of typical examples (nausea warning!)…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre
    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/02/25/080225fa_fact_kramer
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/06/nation/na-vietnam6

    Etc., etc., etc.

  • Mary

    There was an unpleasant word in the heading of this comment on medialens which I will omit. Does anyone here know what photos are being referred to?
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    Hillary Clinton is a woman without fear. She has bravely condemned US soldiers weeing on the Taliban. (Can’t get the video)
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    Alright, so if we are allowed to bring this sort of thing up, what was in the photos Obama would not show to us?
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    Is it true that they depicted the sexual torture of children carried out by US soldiers, often videoed by female US soldiers, in front of their mothers; one of the mothers begged her relatives to kill her even though no finger had been laid on her?
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    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1326393571.html
    You are not supposed to bring this sort of thing up….but in the context of urination….

  • Uzbek in the UK

    @ Writeon
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    I agree with that morality and warfare is something that is not paired up nicely. War (killing people) itself is immoral in its core. By putting some morality in warfare it is like painting some rotten wall in the hope that it will look nicer if it is painted.
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    Agree that massacring civilians in Vietnam village could not be done without approval from above. But in this particular case it could have been some thuggish marines (probably drunk or worse) or whose friend has probably been blown off. There is no way to justify this immoral action but it could have been a result of few sick thuggish heads.
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    On the other hand there are plenty more issues on which US could be condemned for being immoral and not at least extraordinary rendition.

  • Uzbek in the UK

    @ Dale
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    Mr Murray put in nicely in his comment to you. Exaggeration of ever powerful Jewish bankers and Rothschilds family in particular is old time favourite argument in Europe. Even before Christianity took its roots Jews and their profound ability in making money have been blamed for many evils. This has never changed since.
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    As of today it is pretty much clear that US needs Israel as much as Israel needs US. In such strategically important and unstable region as Middle East Israel since its creation was acting as American fifth column. This is not only due to powerful Israeli lobby in Washington but this is also dictated by US strategic interests in the Middle East as well as in the rest of the world.

  • Dale Martin

    Mary,,,,,,,,,, The only photos I am aware of that Obama moved to block where the release of photos documenting American military personnel torturing detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying the images could “further inflame anti-American opinion.” Some were released or were leaked, not sure which, but exactly how many were not and what they depicted remain speculation.

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