The shocking death of Lee Rigby quite naturally appals us all. The intention of the crazed little group who conceived this killing was to make it as horrible as possible in order to scare people.
Horrible, sociopathic violence happens to people from time to time. They have done since Cain killed Abel, metaphorically or literally as you choose. Here is another headline today, just as horrific:
A British soldier has been jailed for stabbing a 10-year-old boy after getting drunk on vodka while serving in Afghanistan.
Both that obscene attack and Michael Adebolajo’s appalling actions are borne out of the same conflict. But it is reasonable to suppose that both these incidents involved people with, for whatever reason, a pre-disposition to murderous violence.
Such people have always been with us and will always be with us, but fortunately they are very, very few. In a nation of 60 million, involvement in violent crime is very low. If you are the victim of criminal violence, the odds over the last decade are about one in twenty thousand that the violence inflicted on you will have any linkage to political or terrorist causation. And the odds that you will suffer any kind of violent attack are thankfully pretty remote.
We should not panic from theatrical violence, just deplore and take sober stock. Sadly if a lunatic on the bus decides to strangle you tomorrow, there are no pre-emptive laws that can stop that. We should stop pretending that the state can always prevent.
It only just occurred to me that many of you have probably not seen the full video because of local censorship. In Oz, we got the whole thing, at least all consistent with the above transcript. If you visit youtube often, you can sometimes view videos before they are deleted.
From this point, there will need to be a UK media blackout on this video to ensure that the alleged killers get the fairest possible trial. I expect that they will both plead ‘not guilty’ in order that they protract media coverage of their mission and afford them an opportunity to expound on their motives – ie that it was a response to the killing of Muslims by non-Muslims.
Don’t you just love the successful campaign of “truthiness” ran by the government; it is the “Islamists”, “Extremists”?
The motive for the attack is explained by the chap (ie why he felt compelled to carry out the attack), alas that has no bearing on the debate. The disconnect from reality is unbelievable.
Habbabkuk,
Well what about families who have a few children,and can comfortably afford to,who suddenly then find themselves not able to afford to support them without state help due to,say,economic collapse due to insane bankers,casino capitalism,sub-prime lending scams etc?
Do you apply your argument also to,say,the British Royal family?
@JA
“What you should focus on with the statement by the person appearing in the video is how out of touch he is with the thoughts and beliefs of a genuine Moslem.”
While this may be correct statement when it comes to those within the mainstream of Islam – I think you will find that there are a number of common themes with the statements of this self proclaimed Muslim, especially given that he probably had a rather high level of adrenalin at the time.
“How is it right for you to occupy our countries and kill our women and children and expect to live in peace and security? … the equation is clear: you are killed as you kill and abducted as you abduct …
“The way to safeguard your security is to cease your oppression and its impact on our nation, most importantly your withdrawal from the ill-fated Bush war in Afghanistan.”
“America will never dream of security unless we will have it in reality in Palestine,” he added. “God willing, our raids on you will continue as long as your support to the Israelis will continue.”
“Anyone who tries to destroy our villages and cities, then we are going to destroy their villages and cities. Anyone who steals our fortunes, then we must destroy their economy. Anyone who kills our civilians, then we are going to kill their civilians.”
On a more positive note there are those who are trying to calm the situation down rather than inflame it further and perhaps show the way forward to some of our excitable contributors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
Imgrid L-K was brought on again today sounding more foreign than she did in the ITV studio last week when she was asked if she had ‘been trained’.
She was shown against the background of the cross of St George flags tied to the railings, the Union flags, the balloons, the help for Heroes banners and the countless ‘floral tributes’ as the flowers are called. Good old Ben Ando is there to give a commentary.
Fiona Armstrong in studio
Ben What is happening there today? It looks very busy.
Cut to Ben in Woolwich
Yes Fiona, it is. The police have closed off one lane of traffic and have been handing out these flyers to each driver…..
Cut to Fiona in studio
Thanks for that Ben.
http://www.contactmusic.com/photo/ingrid-loyay-kennett-police-hand-out-flyers-that-appeal-for_3691821
Mindless stuff. Scripted probably.
Two pieces.
Two more.
Syria – more arms, more killing
http://johnhilley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/syria-more-arms-more-killing.html
‘Fascinating and depressing (via 972 magazine) about the radically different view of Israel in the general public globally (never been worse due to racism and occupation against Palestinians) and the elites who see endless financial opportunity. Vulture capitalism brought to you by Zionism:
In his new documentary, ‘The Lab,’ Yotam Feldman explores how Israel’s weapons industries interact with the country’s politics, economy and military decision-making. Israeli weapons, military technology and know-how become more valuable because they have been field-tested in its wars and combat against Palestinians and neighboring countries. A conversation with Yotam Feldman about his film, arms dealers and Israel’s war economy.’
http://antonyloewenstein.com/2013/05/30/how-israels-weapons-industry-thrives-on-ever-greater-conflict/
Dictionary 2013
Noun: Knife
1. Edge tool used as a cutting instrument; has a pointed blade with a sharp edge and a handle.
2. A weapon with a handle and blade with a sharp point.
3. (Woolwich) Weapon of Mass-Distraction
Noun: Car Bomb
1. (Iraq) Terrorist weapon
2. (Syria) Tool used to bring democracy
If you asked most people (not just Moslems) why UK forces occupied Iraq and Afghanistan the answer would not be to stop those countries setting up a Sharia law based government. They will talk about oil, geo-political interests or the MIC but very very few will mention religious ideologies.
Here we see our Jihadi is doing a tremendous favour to our politicians by getting them off the hook for the real reason, and nobody finds that suspicious?
The terrorists and politicians are working together, both clandestinely here and openly abroad. There is no doubt about it, all you have to do is engage your brain and you can see the real killers and who they so clumsily hide behind – like an elephant behind a tree, when one bit sticks out they move it out of sight, but then you see another part.
Dictionary 2013
Noun: Terrorist
1. A person who employs gross violence against civilians for political purposes.
Noun: Politician
1. A person who employs gross politics against civilians for violent purposes.
Ingrid Loyau-Kennett, witness to aftermath, speaks –
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/woolwich-witness-ingrid-loyau-kennett
From her account, it seems that the injuries to Lee Rigby’s neck from the alleged attempted beheading must have been so minimal that she thought it worthwhile trying to take his pulse. Reports that he was beheaded are therefore obviously false and allegations that it was attempted are without firm evidence. One of the alleged killers can be seen holding a cleaver so it might be that Lee sustained injuries to his neck from use of this weapon and eye-witness accounts might have misdescribed the action as an attempted beheading with a machete.
Also, it is interesting that the police can shoot would-be assailants in the legs, rather than the chest, when it suits them. In this case, to obtain a live capture for interrogation.
Multiple incised wounds.
Woolwich murder: Lee Rigby ‘had multiple wounds’
Members of the public observe a minute’s silence in Woolwich
A minute’s silence was held in Woolwich exactly a week after the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby
Continue reading the main story
Woolwich attack
Man denies part in Woolwich killing
Woolwich suspect remains in custody
Letter calls for MI5 probe
Slain soldier’s name for memorial
Drummer Lee Rigby died of “multiple incised wounds” after being attacked on a street in Woolwich, a post-mortem examination has discovered.
The finding was issued as police made a fresh appeal for information following the soldier’s killing.
Scotland Yard said the inquest into Drummer Rigby’s death will open at Southwark Coroner’s Court on Friday.
A minute’s silence was held in Woolwich just before 14:20 BST – exactly a week after the murder.
The silence was followed by spontaneous applause.
Police have appealed for more witnesses to come forward, and asked the public to “continue to show restraint”.
It comes as officers prepare to question one of the two suspects who were shot by police before their arrests.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22703063
“The terrorists and politicians are working together, both clandestinely here and openly abroad.”
What I find unusual is how someone is so demanding of the need for evidence and then critical of the evidence produced for alternative more obvious hypotheses is then keen for us to accept his alternative hypothesis on the basis of minimal evidence and open insults to those who think differently from himself. This is of course normal form for conspiracy theorists – the next leap will probably be to say that it is all controlled by Zionists blah blah blah.
“Also, it is interesting that the police can shoot would-be assailants in the legs, rather than the chest, when it suits them. In this case, to obtain a live capture for interrogation.”
…and to then not disarm a murder suspect, who is clearly conscious and has not been incapacitated or physically restrained, is not only ‘interesting’ but it is also a suicidal derelictions of responsibility for personal and public safety by the ‘officers’ involved.
http://nodisinfo.com/Home/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/woolwichscissorsclear1-625×295.png
Yet another example of the World’s first and only known example of totally benign terrorist psycho killers.
“The terrorists and politicians are working together, both clandestinely here and openly abroad.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/27/exclusive-john-mccain-slips-across-border-into-syria-meets-with-rebels.html
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
29 May, 2013 – 1:13 pm
This post of yours has some merit in that it establishes that you are a swivel-eyed loon.
P.s. You’re not Norman Tebbit are you?
“the next leap will probably be to say that it is all controlled by Zionists blah blah blah.”
You wish. I have never demanded evidence or even suggested alternatives to what has happened – I have no theories about dead bodies being hidden, false blood, etc.
I have simply posed some obvious questions and pointed out the blatant oddities in the ‘official’ narrative.
My own personal opinions and attitudes, based on years of research and experience, may come across within my text but in relation to what I have written about these particular events you are clearly mistaken, and deliberately so IMO because, let’s be honest, you’re not much of a dissident are you?
“Dissident: broadly defined, is a person who actively challenges an established doctrine, policy, or institution.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissident
@ Jives (16h08) :
The example you give makes a fair point of course and there are probably other examples going along the same lines which could be made with equal validity.
But is not the implication (or logical conclusion) of what you say that no reform of any system can or should be undertaken because it might give rise to a number of hard cases? Surely that would be an argument for complete immobility?
Of course the example you give doesn’t bring into question the sense of responsibility (or even the moral sense) of the parents because they had their children when times were good and it is necessarily through any fault of theirs that times have turned hard. I guess that ways could be found – admittedly with the risk of complicating the reformed system – to deal with cases like this: for example, child benefit could made available but perhaps limited in time.
But there are also counter-examples – I emphasise, not necesarily more numerous than the example you mention :- consider the case of a single woman who has several children by different men. Is it fanciful to suggest that that life choice might have been facilitated by some in the knowledge that the state will provide? Surely – and more generally, as I said before – more emphasis should be put on personal responsibility?
——–
Re your question about the Royal Family : well, that’s more of a debating point than a real one, isn’t it, because it relates to a unique (in the literal sense) case. But if the implication is that the number of Royals receiving monies from the state should be drastically pruned then I would certainly not disagree. (For the rest, whatever the law of the land is in the matter of family allowances, it should also be applied to future children of the Royals – assuming that they bother to collect any child allowance at all, of course)
@ KingofWelshNoir :
Thank you for your very pertinent (and polite) comments on my post.
Although I take on board much of what you say, there are just a couple of points I’d like to tease out a little further (if you wish, of course), but you must forgive me if I put it off until tomorrow; I’ve been fooling about on the beach all afternoon and am rather kn…..red (my reply to Jives, above, was all I have energy for this evening) 🙂
‘Drummer Lee Rigby died of “multiple incised wounds” after being attacked on a street in Woolwich, a post-mortem examination has discovered.’
“multiple incised wounds” certainly makes one begin to wonder about the amount of blood we see on the ‘killers’.
This man stabbed someone to death, can you ‘guess’ whether he is left or right handed?
http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2012/03/06/JonathanOrr_t607.JPG
April Showers
29 May, 2013 – 2:20 pm
“Why is plod asking for witnesses and for ‘any information’? 1pm News ITV and BBC”
April, it could be that Lee Rigby was killed when he was hit by the car and not by the knife and cleaver attack.
I suspect this because there was not a lot of blood at the scene which you would expect if he was alive at the time the stabbing and hacking took place.
Also the cause of death has not yet been confirmed although the post mortem has been carried out.
Such a scenario could cause problems for the prosecution if the perpetrators decide to plead not guilty to murder.
The culprits could argue that they did not intend to kill him with the car and once they started stabbing and slashing him he was already dead.
The police will want to trace witnesses that can testify that Lee was alive after being hit by the car.
Just got up to speed on this:
“Lee Rigby died of “multiple incised wounds”
But soon after the post mortem:
MURDERED soldier Lee Rigby has been formally identified but the cause of his death was not confirmed by a post-mortem examination, police said today.
http://www.newsrt.co.uk/news/lee-s-cause-of-death-unclear-as-dramatic-woolwich-footage-emerges-1756049.html
Strange that.
“Become a confidential informant or else” is the term I used earlier, I believe.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m97865
“April, it could be that Lee Rigby was killed when he was hit by the car and not by the knife and cleaver attack.”
If the car had killed him then his heart would not have been beating when he was stabbed and there would be *far far far* less spilled blood.
On the other hand, if he was alive when stabbed then he bled out a large amount *very very very* quickly, e.g. due to a severed artery, and in that instance it is almost inconceivable that the killers would only have bloodied hands.
The evidence of what happened can be found in the blood splatter analysis, and it does not support a stabbing. We have a large pool of blood with no obvious spray, splashing or signs of any struggle other than a couple of footprints and smears from where the corpse was apparently dragged through post-mortem.
Doug,
you are factually incorrect. If you look at this snap you can see a large pool of blood which extends right under the tree and there is actually blood seen flowing past the rear of the car in other shots.
I saw some excellent images during the first day or two, now everything is getting much more difficult to hunt down (like the bizarre reports of a naked woman seen in the area).
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=osewbm&s=5
“If you look at this snap you can see a large pool of blood which extends right under the tree”
It starts under the tree, IMO.
“and there is actually blood seen flowing past the rear of the car in other shots.”
I think that’s fluid from the car, not blood.
“e.g. due to a severed artery, and in that instance it is almost inconceivable that the killers would only have bloodied hands.”
Yep. Should be blood all over him/them. And the stuff on his hands doesn’t even look like real blood. It looks diluted.
some interesting observations below, like the police side-arm being well within reach of the ‘killer’ while receiving medical attention. Easily missed if you are busy staring gob-smacked at the *unbelievable* sight of the bloodied murder weapon just laying next to the killers foot.
Two massive personal security fails right there. That officer should never be issued with a side arm again, or be put in a position where the public deepened on him for their safety for that matter, as he cant even look after himself.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2013/05/24/woolwich-attacks-video-mirrors-exact-same-ending-as-video-of-boston-bombings-shootout/
“I think that’s fluid from the car, not blood.”
There are the fluids (oil and coolant) from the car on the passenger side, and also blood on the driver side and towards the rear, flowing along by the wall.
If you notice all fluids are draining toward the rear and the road, so the fluids seen flowing behind the car, i.e. between the wall and car, can not be coming from the car but higher up on the pavement, additionally the fluid appears to be the same colour as the blood.
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01733/Woolwich__south-ea_1733015a.jpg
“The parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC) has launched an inquiry after it emerged both Michael Adebolajo, 28, and Michael Adebowale, 22, were well known to MI5.”
“Sir Malcolm Rifkind, the committee chairman, said it would look at whether reduced resources had any bearing on not identifying the risk.”
What a shite excuse!!!