Johnson’s Westminster Cabinet is Far to the Right of Thatcher 406


I can only imagine that the media people who are saying this is the most right wing cabinet since the 1980’s were not sentient in the 80’s. Thatcher never had a Home Secretary remotely as illiberal as Pritti Patel, never had a Foreign Secretary remotely as xenophobic as Dominic Raab, never even had a Chancellor as anti-State intervention as Sajid Javid (though came closer there) and never had a Defence Secretary as bellicose as Ben Wallace.

Even Thatcher’s final and most right wing Cabinet contained figures like Ken Clarke, Chris Patten, John Major, Virginia Bottomley, Douglas Hurd and William Waldegrave. All Tories with whom I have fundamental disagreements, but every single one of them is far, far to the left of virtually all of Johnson’s appalling cronies.

Thatcher deliberately and cruelly wrecked the social democratic society in which I grew up, with the aim of destroying any ability for working people to be protected against the whims of the wealthy. But Thatcher never introduced privatisation into the NHS or state schools – that was her acolyte Blair. She maintained free university education in England and Wales. That was destroyed by Blair too. We should be more rigorous than to accept Thatcher as the definitive most right wing government possible. It is not only lazy, it obscures the fact we now have the most right wing British government since 1832.

Pritti Patel is a Home Secretary who admires the approach to law and order of Benjamin Netanyahu and voted against a measure to prevent pregnant asylum seekers being slammed into immigration detention pending hearing. Savid Javid is a Chancellor who materially caused the problems of British Steel by, as Business Secretary, vetoing in Brussels tariffs against dumped Chinese steel. Dominic Raab is a foreign secretary who negotiated a deal with the EU then resigned because it was so bad.

This is the biggest political shock to hit the UK in my lifetime and it is potentially worse than Thatcher. Here in Scotland, we need to move immediately for Independence. The time for talking really is behind us.


406 thoughts on “Johnson’s Westminster Cabinet is Far to the Right of Thatcher

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  • zoot

    more evidence that the right doesn’t mess about. johnson immediately packed his cabinet with figures from the hard right and could not care less if it upsets so called moderate centrists.
    by complete contrast corrbyn and mcdonnell have had a huge mandate to introduce mandatory re-selection for four years but have bottled it for fear of being criticized by a tiny number of political commentators. it is equally inconceivable that someone like johnson would allow irreconcilable enemies to confect an entirely spurious, destabiluzing slur (like a supposed antisemitism crisis) without disputing it ferociously with facts and killing it on day one.

    • N_

      The Labour left didn’t kill the anti-Semitism lies on day one because they couldn’t. The left isn’t weak because it can’t do media well. The position is the other way around: it can’t do media well because it is weak.

      The right is in an extremely strong position. It hasn’t even played three of its strong cards much yet – Nigel Farage, white phosphorus Labour, terrorism.

      I agree with Giyane. The time has come to emigrate. Am working on it…

      • Johny Conspiranoid

        Labour does not have an option of doing media well if the media are just going to lie through their teeth night and day to slander Labour.

        • Jo Dominich

          Johnny, that’s so true. The only media about Labour is mistruth, edited interviews, doctored e-mails, spurious programmes about alleged anti-Semitism etc etc. Labour can get their message out there as often and as strongly as it can, and it does succeed at times but the truth is, the media will never allow anything positive to be said about either Corbyn or Labour.

          Look at the media they are giving a corrupt politician like BoJo – they are desperately trying to make him look electable – so there is a temporary moratorium on their vicious and malicious assaults on Corbyn.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ N_ July 26, 2019 at 05:49
        Parties weak or strong don’t ‘do’ media well or badly; they are ‘done’ by them (Re Pompous Pirate’s ‘gauntlet’).
        And of course, a thriving ‘Fifth Column’, who knows they can’t overplay their hand because they are in cahoots with the PTB and MSM.

        • Sharp Ears

          N_ has no appreciation of the power of the Jewish lobby, embedded in the media and in Parliament. He should note what Hodge, Smeeth and co do and say. Watson too is a snake and Corbyn should get rid. Watson accepted £tens of thousands in ‘donations’ from the Trades Union for his ‘deputy leadership’ campaign and is a member of Trades Union Friends of Israel as well as LFoI.

          Apart from the receipt of £3,600 from the Tabors, for 7 hours’ worth of presenting on their LBC Global Radio station (October 2018 – March 2019), the next two donations recorded in last August and November are:

          £15,000 from Sir David Garrard – Garrard is a multi millionaire octogenarian property developer.
          ‘In 2013, Garrard hosted a visit to Israel by eleven Labour MPs, including shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy, shadow defence minister Gemma Doyle, Labour Friends of Israel chair Anne McGuire and vice-chair Louise Ellman. He also sponsored the 2014 Labour Friends of Israel annual lunch, which included a speech by Labour leader Ed Miliband;’
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrard_(property_developer)

          £5,000 from Sir Trevor Chinn – Chinn is another multi millionaire from Lex Garages and CVC Capital etc.
          ‘Throughout his life he has also devoted himself to the Jewish Community in Britain and supporting the State of Israel. His roles in Jewish communal life have included Chairman (and now President) of the Joint Israel Appeal, the leading organisation in Britain supporting Israel’s humanitarian needs; board member of The Jewish Community Centre for London, President of Norwood from 1996 to 2006; one of the founders of the Jewish Association for Business Ethics (and now Vice President). Sir Trevor currently sits on the Executive Committee of the Jewish Leadership Council and the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Chinn

          Note the knighthoods.

          • IrishU

            You now refer to the Jewish lobby as opposed to the Israel lobby, has your mask finally slipped?

          • Deb O'Nair

            You’ve fallen into the Israeli pro-Zionist lobby’s narrative that they speak for all Jews and their oft employed tactic of hiding their divisive political ideology behind support for the Jewish community, even though that support soon evaporates when it’s the wrong type of Jew (i.e. not pro-Zionist and right-wing), as is the case with Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky and Medea Benjamin to name just a few, or the wrong type of Jewish community, such as certain Hasidic groups.

            Pointing out a few pro-Zionist Jewish donors from among hundreds of political donors and who represent a tiny fraction of the British Jewish community as evidence of a Jewish conspiracy also plays into the Israeli pro-Zionist lobby’s antisemitism narrative. Tom Watson, whom you mention, pocketed half-a-million quid from extreme right-wing racist and Hitler supporting antisemite Max Mosley; is that evidence of a Nazi conspiracy? It’s not a Jewish conspiracy but corrupt politicians being brought left right and centre by a bunch of right-wing multi-millionaires and billionaires, some of whom happen to be Jewish.

            There is no doubt that the US/UK backed Zionist government of Israel and it’s supporters have exerted enormous and disproportionate influence over many Western countries for decades and that should be challenged, especially when it affects the public life of a nation in terms of political corruption and corrupt news media. It should be remembered that Israel is a projection of US/UK geopolitical ambition and Zionism serves the purposes of the US/UK establishment.

          • Jimmeh

            Corbyn cannot get rid of Watson (I agree he is a snake). The Deputy Leader is elected, not appointed. There is some weird electoral college system, that I think Millipede was responsible for introducing. So you can by all means end up with a Leader who is at odds with his own Deputy.

            So, Corbyn cannot sack his own deputy, not even if the guy is constantly attacking him, or (even) manouvering to take over the leadership (good luck with that, Tom).

          • Doodlebug

            @Deb O’Nair

            Your final paragraph is on the money (if you’ll forgive the expression). Politics and money being inextricably linked, there are some extraordinary things to be discovered if one addresses those two topics in alphabetical order – like, ‘how does an imminent bankrupt become president of a world super power?’ ‘Who really chose his ‘cabinet’?’ ‘Who were the real players at the US election, and UK referendum casinos?’

            The answers do not point directly toward Israel, but, like a grateful ‘cabby’, that branch of the operation is quite happy with the tips it receives from the high rollers at the tables. And once we’re out of the EU they’ll no longer be required to stamp ‘Palestine’ on any of their exports either.

          • Jo1

            I’m going to disagree with you Deb.

            Those who have led the more vicious attacks on Corbyn did so as “Jewish MPs”. Along with Watson and their other supporters in the PLP they introduced allegations of anti-Semitism into the attacks on him and their own Party. The media ran with that narrative and continue to flog it to death as do Watson and others.

            They made it about being Jewish. It is not anti-Semitic to point that out. Furthermore, any attempt to challenge their tactics was met with challengers themselves being labelled anti-Semitic. This created fear of speaking out at all.

            So SE is right. We are now in a situation where MPs of a particular faith have created a specific grouping for themselves. With others supporting them, they’re now able to use it as a political weapon. We’ve seen clear and blatant examples of it.

          • Doodlebug

            @Jo1

            Neatly summarised.

            On learning of defeat in the Brexit referendum, the character of Craig Oliver in the docu-drama, Brexit – The Uncivil War, wakes up to the realization that the remain camp faced a near impossible task of countering, more or less on the spur of the moment, a (mis) perception that had been drip-fed to the populace for the previous twenty years.

            Just how much more difficult should it prove to counteract a process that’s been underway for more than a century?

          • Dredd

            Is your narrative is that Jewish MPs have made up false allegations about anti-Semitic attitudes in the Labour party specifically to accuse Jeremy Corbyn of not doing anything about them?

            Left-wingers have been alleging for years that Jews are in conspiratorial command of the media, the economy, governments, etc. etc. and are pulling strings and starting wars to further their own religious ideologies and personal greed. In fact I see plenty of evidence of such attitudes here. And the phenomenon obviously didn’t start with Corbyn becoming leader.

            In June 2015, Craig Murray stated: “The biggest problem we face is anti-Jewish comment, which I will not tolerate. We are not in the business of stigmatising anti-Zionism as anti-Jewish, but there are quite frequently distinctly anti-Jewish comments.”

            Going back further, to June 2009: “But from now on, comments off topic from the original link will be deleted. And off topic includes “ah, but this is all caused by such and such a dark force which is behind every development in the economy/foreign affairs/religion.”

            Of course, this isn’t a Labour website, but it seems fairly representative of the left-wing in general. Similar attitudes and theories are held by actual members of the Labour party on other sites. As a result, many jewish people feel like they’re being demonised and scapegoated for many of the world’s greatest problems. Do you recognise any truth in that observation, or do you still think it’s all been a carefully-staged hoax to get Corbyn out?

          • Greg Park

            Dredd

            The statistics suggest the latter. YouGov polling showed antisemitism to be less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the population at large and much less than among Conservative supporters. It also showed antisemitism among Labour supporters has decreased since Corbyn became leader. So going by the statistics, it does look very much like a staged smear campaign to get Corbyn out.

          • Dredd

            Yes, Mr Park, that seems to be the crux of the problem. Although the anti-Semitism phenomenon isn’t a hoax, and some manifestations of it are disturbing, that doesn’t explain why it’s being used as a stick to batter Corbyn with. He’s always spoken out against anti-Semitism, and his own record of anti-racist campaigning is very admirable. The vitriol is being directed at the wrong target. The fervent AS-hunters should focus their energies on trying to debunk the anti-Semitic tropes instead of attacking the person who’s best placed to exert a positive influence on the party members holding those unsavoury views.

          • Dredd

            > If the polling had supported your claims you would be on much firmer ground.

            My point was that the problem with anti-Semitism in the left wing clearly predates Corbyn’s leadership, so therefore it couldn’t possibly be a hoax concocted to unseat him. The survey strengthens that argument. QED. Hopefully the downward trend will continue.

          • Doodlebug

            @Dredd

            “As a result, many jewish people feel like they’re being demonised and scapegoated for many of the world’s greatest problems. Do you recognise any truth in that observation, or do you still think it’s all been a carefully-staged hoax to get Corbyn out?”

            With respect, these are not mutually exclusive conditions. What is no doubt true of the many who live and work in places other than the palace of Westminster does not necessarily apply to those within its precincts, some of whose claims of demonization etc. are frankly laughable – and yet they still manage to achieve the desired result (cf. Chris Williamson)

          • Jo1

            @ Dredd

            I’m not biting!

            What I will say is that since Corbyn was elected there has been a concerted campaign to bring him down. (I believe Craig Murray shares that view.). That campaign is almost four years old! It was more important than Brexit to many in the PLP!

            The anti-Semitism allegations were just another stage. The most damaging one, undoubtedly.

            I have been voting since I was eighteen years old. I am now sixty years old. NEVER have I cast a vote based on the faith of a candidate. I find it grossly offensive and unacceptable that so many MPs are now defining themselves by a particular religion and using that religion as a political weapon. That others in the PLP have supported such tactics is an affront to democracy.

          • Deb O'Nair

            Jo1 @ 14:01

            ‘Those who have led the more vicious attacks on Corbyn did so as “Jewish MPs”.’

            That’s kind of the point I was trying to make. The Jewish MPs briefing in the media against Corbyn are, by and large, right-wing pro-Zionists. They are not speaking on behalf of the Jewish community or even defending it but are promoting a provably false narrative driven by purely political aims.

            It has been observed many times by many Jews that these politicians represent a real problem to the wider Jewish community because their campaign feeds into the antisemitic narrative that Jews control politics, the media etc. and genuine cases of antisemitism are being drowned out by their ‘crying wolf’ noise.

          • N_

            How many people belong to one or more of the maybe 200 organisations that choose deputies to sit on the Board of Deputies of British Jews? Of those, how many are British citizens?

          • Shatnersrug

            Please people do not conflate zionists with jews. It completely undermines the amazing and valuable work of Jewish Voice for Labour and other. Everytime you conflate all jews with zionists you play directly into their hands. I’m shocked that you all have fallen into this trap set by the establishment. This thread will undoubtedly be screen grabbed and used to demonstrate how antisemetic Craig’s readers are and therefore Craig. You have allowed your frustrations to get the better of your reason which again is a technique practiced by Mark Regev and others.

            Follow Tony Greenstein and JVL and keep your frustrations in check we have a battle to fight and it isn’t against jews or any other ethnicity, creed sexual orientation or any other identity politics.

          • Rhys Jaggar

            To continue the Jewish vs Zionist debate, the problem most non Jews have is that extreme Zionism has far too much of a hold on UK foreign policy and the ridiculous ‘Friends of Israel’ MP groupings add to that. There is little to no coruscating rebuttal of Zionist behaviour, atrocities and acts of terrorism by the non Zionist Jewish majority and hence the media narrative presents Zionism as the mainstream Jewish viewpoint, which it absolutely is not.

            I would be very happy for 10,000 Jews to sign a statement which includes a description of Netanyahu as ‘morally unfit to hold office, whose involvement in the 9/11 act of terrorist genocide should render him permanently excluded from any synagogue worldwide’ as then non Jews would be less likely marked down as Semitic for having said it themselves.

            So long as Jews who abhor far right extreme Zionism remain fearful, silent souls, an assertive moderate example of Judaism will never become understood by the naive innocents oh still use the MSM as trusted sources of news, opinion and political education.

          • N_

            @SharpEars – “N_ has no appreciation of the power of the Jewish lobby, embedded in the media and in Parliament.

            I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I wasn’t simply saying “the left is bad at media”. I was saying that it is bad at media because it is weak, and it is weak because its enemy is strong. I was amending Anton Pannekoek’s observation that “the working class is not weak because it is divided; it is divided because it is weak”.

            Boris Johnson’s stepmother’s family owns Marks and Spencer. She arranged his stay in Israel together with a former Israeli ambassador.

            Marks and Spencer has been allowed to open premises not only at motorway service stations but at major London railway stations. That’s extremely scary. That kind of presence could be useful in a terrorist attack.

            I don’t know about Red Sea salt merchants on station concourses, but there was a “paintball” team at Waterloo that played a “game” featuring a terrorist attack.

            An Israeli firm provides security software for Buckingham Palace.

            Zionazis are harassing leftwing anti-racist Labour politicians physically.

            I get this, Sharp Ears – I get it.

  • Martin

    How many times?!
    The driver behind privitising of state owned assets is the EU.

    • Laguerre

      Brexiters have a lot of ignorance about the EU. They never learn, because they don’t want to.

      • wonky

        ..and you seem to have a lot of trust in Von der Leyen, Lagarde and … still Merkel, it seems ??

        • Laguerre

          Putting words in my mouth. Still there’s a lot of recrudescence of far-right style Brexitism this week, with Johnson succeeding in getting to the top of the greasy pole. So I guess a lot of fake attacks are to be expected.

      • Ralph

        Ignorance? What part of 3 simple for you yet profound words ‘ever closer union’ are you too stupid to understand?

        • N_

          @Ralph – I’ll look beyond your cheap rhetoric and ask you what point you’re making. Britain opted out of “ever closer union” before the referendum.

          • Ralph

            N_: It was directed at Laguerre’s criticism of Brexiteers, so your comment makes no sense.

    • Andyoldlabour

      Martin,

      That is very true and it is the EU forcing countries to employ austerity measures which target the poorest in society. It is the EU promoting freedom of movement which allows businesses to maximise profit whilst driving down wages.

      • Jo Dominich

        AnyoldLabour – this isn’t like you – the EU has nothing to do with Austerity Policies in this Country and freedom of movement was not to maximise profits or drive down wages but to afford people the opportunity to pursue jobs freely within the market. Although the large influx of Eastern Europeans to the UK has, indeed, lowered wages, removed working rights etc – that has been allowed to happen because Cameron and May were bowing to the wishes of Industry for cheap labour who had no employment rights. The EU are not responsible for any of this.

    • Humbaba

      Why is the UK privatizing and deregulating more than any other EU member? Except for the UK, most railway companies in the EU are state-owned.

      Privatization and deregulation are the hallmark of Anglo neoliberalism driven by the US and the UK. Trump wants you to privatize the NHS. Nobody in the EU wants to you privatize the NHS.

      But thanks for confirming our stereotypes of the British who systematically blame their own faults on the EU. Who will you blame after Brexit? As far as I’m concerned, it can’t come early enough.

      • andic

        look closely at Macron’s moves, if I didn’t know better I would swear that this true believer and shining light of the EU project was fettling the railways for privatization.
        Also how much protection did the EU give to the PIGS state owned utilities during the their financial woes?

        • Laguerre

          “I would swear that this true believer and shining light of the EU project was fettling the railways for privatization.”

          Quite wrong. SNCF lines are already partly privatised, so it’s nothing new for Macron. SNCF services (I think that part is called Mobilities these days) already make a profit, so what is the drive, when there are other problems to deal with? Thatcherite Brits never understand any other form of policy. Macron is not a Thatcherite, so is unlikely to follow those idiot policies that you hope for.

          • andic

            Just to be clear, I believe it is incumbent on the state to provide certain services and infrastructure: water, power, health, education, transportation and defense are the very minimum. Others may have longer or shorter lists I could be convinced to add more. The number of nice to haves over and above that are a measure of the level of civilization of the country. There has to be a limit. But I wouldn’t call myself a Thatcherite and Macron concerns me more than Johnson.

            I consider the EU to be an utterly rotten and globo-fascist entity. That is why I oppose it. A few Labour or environmental laws a garden of socialism do not make – more like crumbs from a rich man’s table.

          • Laguerre

            Being a Brexiter as you are, means approving a far right agenda these days, with a Libertarian programme of minimal state, because that’s what you are going to get, if you support it. Lexit is dead, if it was ever alive. It was only in suspended animation after Benn’s heyday in 1980.

  • Ingwe

    Good article as far as it goes. If you want to get a real flavour of what the likes of Javid, Patel, Truss, et al, have in store for us, read the link below.
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/26/bori-j26.html

    Corporation tax slashed to 12.5%, income tax rate of 45% for the rich abolished.
    The real reason for Brexit is to remove the constraints of E.U. Regulations so that the Thatcher dream of of unrestrained capitalism can be finally achieved. Read and weep. Especially the feeble reaction of Labour.

    • Toby

      Don’t worry.

      After the spending splurge that they have announced, you can be quite sure that overall taxation will go up.

      They may cut this or that tax, but they will more than make up for it elsewhere.

      And what they don’t take in taxation will be stolen from people’s savings by inflation.

      • michael norton

        Toby, the new thinking, is that as interest is at a 300 year low, the time for government to borrow and invest in infrastructure, is now.
        So many projects will quickly be advance, using government directly procured cash.

    • Jo Dominich

      Ingwe, I don’t think Labour’s response is feeble it is a minimal response. At this stage in British Politics, I don’t think Labour should say much more – the media won’t allow the space anyway.

      I cannot express the horror that I am presently feeling about Bojo being Prime Minister and this extremely right wing Cabinet of warmongers, capitalists, corruption and without a brain cell between them as to what the British Nation needs right now. However, I watched PMQs this week and Corbyn is on fire, he was brilliant, angry and on the money. I also watched his address to a crowd of people outside Parliament Square. Again, he was on fire, he was brilliant, angry and on the money.

  • mark golding

    The political apocalypse is in motion. Thus the ‘no deal’ Brexit is the back-drop to the British Establishment’s struggle to keep Corbyn out of power at all cost according to an MI6 insider

    PM Johnson has had an intelligence briefing already and knows he must amplify the meme that Jeremy Corbyn MP is an old-fashioned international socialist who has forged links with those quite ready to use terror when they haven’t got their way: the IRA, Hizbollah, Hamas.

    As a result of this approach, he is completely unfit to govern and Britain would be less safe with him in No 10. At a relevant point in a time frame, another staged terror attack will occur in London to force this message.

    • Harry Hopkins

      This was the approach in 2017. Didn’t stop Corbyn getting the biggest vote share since 1945. I think the British public are now more aware of the dirty tricks used against him more than ever. The ‘anti semite’ slurs for instance, just elicit groans from those who know better and complete indifference from those who don’t. Besides, the reason the referendum voted to leave was mainly because people wanted to kick the establishment up the behind. The more they go for Corbyn the more it will enhance his appeal–and rightly so.

      • Goose

        As has been stated on many occasions, the ‘moderates’ or fake left are still there waiting to take the party they stole in the mid-eighties and held until 2010(arguably 2015), back once more.

        Corbyn simply hasn’t done enough to change the composition of the Parliamentary Labour party to have a hope in hell of running a cohesive administration. The Shadow front bench being barely on talking terms with the Blairite PLP may be fine in opposition, but it’s no basis to run a functional govt.

        Corbyn wouldn’t last long with this PLP.

        • J

          Your analysis is always a fairly generic ‘dissillusioned Left’ although your peculiar emphasis on ‘nothing can be done’ is very familiar. The new improved Loony? Same method, different style?

          • Goose

            J

            If that’s aimed at me.

            Then it’s fair to say, yes, I am depressed at the futility of it all. I and many here would like a radical, reforming govt, but see little prospect of that with a deeply belligerent PLP and Corbyn basically isolated – the nearest thing he has to an ultra loyalist is Chris \Williamson and he’s suspended illustrating the power balance in the parliamentary party (Blairites are still calling the tune). Even were it the case winning an election wasn’t difficult enough in of itself, I don’t see how Corbyn governs with a PLP champing at the bit to depose him?

            Looking at recent polls the Lib Dems are now advancing and their new leader, Tory-lite Jo Swindleson, offers little hope for change. UK politics depresses me, I don’t see how we can effect change, and thus I wish Scotland all the best in seeking a way out of this mess.

            There is one thing that could make a difference : open selection or mandatory re-selection. But the unions are blocking it, fearful they won’t be able to drop pro-union candidates into seats. The whole situation is fcuked up tbh.

      • Andyoldlabour

        Harry Hopkins

        “Didn’t stop Corbyn getting the biggest vote share since 1945”

        Corbyn got 40% in 2017 (May got 42%) but Blair got 40.7% in 1997.

    • J

      Always worth reiterating, because it’s true. All the usual levers appear to have been pulled, buttons pressed, establishment press dutifully priming the pumps etc.

    • Rhys Jaggar

      I think more to the point is Breitbart and the US actively seeking to get Khan out of the Mayors office. I have zero time for American meddling in our democracy and the Breitbart fanatic, who sees everything in terms of a fight to the death, is where responses should be targeted.

      Whether I support Khan or not is irrelevant: America has no place interfering in UK democracy.

      • Laguerre

        Very true, but interference is going to happen more and more. How else are we going to become an unincorporated territory of the US (as Puerto Rico is)? That’s the only role left, as we can no longer aspire to be the 51st State. It’s how we “take back control”.

      • Dungroanin

        Khan is being set up as the BLAIRITE alternative leader at the next opportunity.
        Anything bobo can do…

    • Jo Dominich

      Mark Golding

      We need Corbyn as Prime Minister now, more than we ever have. We need a man of integrity, of honour, of decency, of peace and who is the only Party Leader actually looking like one. It is known that BoJo is a complete idiot, a buffoon, the most racist, sexist, corrupt, incompetent MP in Parliament and an abject liar to boot. Oh sure, he will wave his smoked kipper railing against the EU, he is putting Brexit to the top of the media Agenda clearly saying it is going to be a No Deal and we will crash out. Abolishing the Irish Backstop is really dangerous to do but he doesn’t care. It looks to me as though he is pushing, pushing, pushing a No Deal Brexit so that (a) next week he is going to announce an electoral pact with Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party and then call la General Election. It all points very strongly to the fact that, with the aid of the MSM Tory Propaganda machine, Brexit will become the focus of the General Election and all the rabid Brexiteers will give them their vote. However, we are all but out of the EU in any event. There are far more urgent issues facing this country’s own infrastructure. A No Deal Brexit will plunge the country into a serious and deep depression. I hope and pray the British Sheeples can see through all this BS.

  • Glasshopper

    Dominic Raab is a foreign secretary who negotiated a deal with the EU then resigned because it was so bad.

    Cobblers!

    Raab was sidelined by Remainers and wisely jumped ship.

    For someone desperate to sell out Scotland’s fishing industry to Brussels, you really ought to be more careful with your language.

    • Sharp Ears

      Now why would the Arbuthnot Banking Group donate the services of a member of their staff to Dominic Raab to the value of £44k this Spring?
      Name of donor: Arbuthnot Banking Group
      Address of donor: Arbuthnot House, 7 Wilson St, London EC2M 2SN

      Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: The services of a member of staff for my Westminster office for six months, value £44,258.99
      Date received: 1 March – 31 August 2019
      Date accepted: 1 March 2019
      Donor status: company, registration 01954085
      (Registered 05 March 2019)

      Any connection to the Arbuthnot Bank by James Arbuthnot, ex MP, Con, NE Hampshire, CFoI, and now Baron Arbuthnot of Erdom etc or his wife Lady Emma, the judge who banged Julian up?

    • Republicofscotland

      “For someone desperate to sell out Scotland’s fishing industry to Brussels,”

      Actually there wouldn’t be a Scottish fishing industry if it Brussels hadn’t intervened. Greedy rich Tory voting Peterhead fishermen fished stock to near depletion, Brussels introduced strict quotas which allowed stock to recuperate.

      • Deb O'Nair

        A majority of the UK catch gets exported to the EU and many UK fishing fleets, with the encouragement of the UK government, sold their quotas for big bucks to other EU nations fishing fleets. Using ‘protecting British fishermen’ to support Brexit is as laughable as the other pro-Brexit bullshit that gets constantly peddled.

  • mike

    The only times when the Maybot looked remotely like a Prime Minister was when she was reading out scripts in response to terror attacks.

    Given his propensity for outlandish extemporising, Bozo will be required to play the statesman when the time is right.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Steve Baker of the ERG doesn’t get on with Dominic Cummings.
    So the People’s Front for Brexit hates the guts of the Brexit People’s Front. Who would have thunk it.

    • wiggins

      Strange appointments:

      “The man Boris has appointed as his “Brexit mastermind”, DOMINIC CUMMINGS, has the worst possible reputation as an “evil genius” and a double-dealing “Svengali”. David Cameron described Cummings as “a career psychopath”. Cummings has poured the vilest abuse on hardline Brexiters like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Steve Baker. And it is significant that Boris has failed to reward Rees-Mogg with a cabinet position. Why?”

      • michael norton

        Wiggins, I think you will find that the brains of the new outfit is Rees-Mogg, he will be attending Boris Johnson’s Cabinet
        as Lord President of the Council

    • Sharp Ears

      He is now 87 and lives in Surrey! Hates the EU etc. Excuse the provenance of the link.
      https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1140097/brexit-news-margaret-thatcher-european-union-government-sir-bernard-ingham

      The Express, once owned by Desmond, is now in the Reach plc group. The CEO is Simon Fox.
      ‘The owner of the Daily Mirror announced a sharp drop in revenues for 2017 yesterday amid what it called a “difficult trading environment”. Trinity Mirror, which plans to change its name to Reach after its acquisition of the Express and Star newspapers, also revealed that Simon Fox, its chief executive, received a 19 per cent increase in his total remuneration package last year to £893,000. This was despite a 19 per cent drop in the company’s share price in the past 12 months.’ Times – 2 March 2018

      That was last year. More now? He is ex Comet and HMV, failed! https://www.reachplc.com/board-member/simon-fox

  • Jim mcallister

    Couldn’t agree more , we are playing their games with article 30 meanwhile when the backlash starts they will be so vicious that they will make the Spanish treatment of Catalonia seem like a Sunday school outing

    • Rhys Jaggar

      Yes, the hero worship meme was issued, even the BBC took notice.

      The media long ago lost its role as a watchdog. it is up to the citizenry to not become groupies.

      • Republicofscotland

        The BBC has been going down that road of riding on the British governments propaganda wagon, Since Reith, lost the battle of BBC impartiality with Churchill during the 1926 General Strike.

        Now the BBC is just a mouthpiece for the British government.

      • Deb O'Nair

        The BBC TV licence fee is a compulsory and legally enforced political subscription.

  • SANDRA CRAWFORD

    This is in-arguably correct, However, I do believe that Thatcher would have done all of the things that Blair and Cameron did but it was not politically possible at the time. Changing peoples environment has to be done over time – Thatcher would have lost the general election had she not bribed people with gas shares and half price council houses. People have had the stuffing knocked out of them so much that the con of Brexit will suffice these days. She said herself that the only reason she kept the NHS in tact was to get elected. The same thing will be with Corbyn and the Left. Corbyn is as left wing as Attlee, but because of the Washington Consensus being so deeply ingrained, he, if elected, would not achieve everything at once.

  • Sharp Ears

    Sir Mark Sedwill has joint functions – National Security Advisor and Cabinet Secretary. In the latter role, he was shown seated on Boris’s right yesterday, taking notes.

    Back to Sir Kim here – ‘The first National Security Adviser (NSA) of the United Kingdom was Sir Peter Ricketts who was previously Permanent Secretary of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee. He handed over to Sir Kim Darroch in January 2012. On 7 July 2015, it was announced that Sir Mark Lyall Grant would replace Darroch as National Security Adviser in early September 2015. Mark Sedwill assumed the role in April 2017. ‘
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Adviser_(United_Kingdom)

    Sedwill has done the rounds. He featured in the Skripal case of course.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sedwill

    October 04 ,2018
    David Macilwain
    The Framing of Russia
    https://ahtribune.com/world/europe/uk/skirpal/2519-framing-of-russia.html
    Sedwill’s a piece of work

  • Anti Anit Semite

    The whole Labour targeted Anti-Semitism farce is another way to shut down freedom of speech.

    Same as the “hate speech” label, and “conspiracy theory” term. Anything that does not compute with the status quo propaganda is labelled as hate speech, conspiracy theory or such. No criticism of Rothschild funded and created Israel is allowed, and this is labelled as “anti-semitic”.

    • Garth Carthy

      “No criticism of Rothschild funded and created Israel is allowed, and this is labelled as ‘anti-semitic’.”

      That’s right. If you say the world is largely run by Jews, you are labelled as being anti-Semitic but since when are facts anti-Semitic or racist in any way?
      The world does seem disprortionately controlled by Jews: The whole ‘Free Market’ dogma that has been the dominant economic model across the globe is controlled by mainly Jewish neo-conservatives and the financial markets.
      Now that doesn’t have to be a problem except for the fact that Israel is just an arm of the US and so the power of leading Jews is reinforced.
      It is not the Jewishness that is objectionable in these cases: It’s the unhealthy idea of a homogenous cabal with too much self-interest at the exclusion of the rest of the world.
      We could say the same for the British Empire and all other empires, of course…

      • joel

        “It is not the Jewishness that is objectionable in these cases: It’s the unhealthy idea of a homogenous cabal with too much self-interest at the exclusion of the rest of the world”

        What solution do you propose, Garth?

        • David

          https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2416-the-major-problem-mdash-one-of-the-major-problems-for-there-are

          Douglas Adams > Quotes > Quotable Quote

          Douglas Adams (Britsh, sadly dead novellist)

          The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

          To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

          To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

          ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
          tags: elections, hg2g, politics, rulers

          Douglas Noël Adams proposed a system of governance where a virtual environment representing the country/planet/galaxy was created, and a random individual [who did not know that he was PM/Rothschilds/President] was closely monitored, interacting with his cat and cups of tea, and cakes – and from these fractal innocent actions were derived the actual hard decisions that the country/planet/galaxy needed, so an abstraction layer on top of a virtual environment, yep – that might work, some coding needed…

        • Garth Carthy

          “What solution do you propose, Garth?”

          Well, for starters, the world should stop kowtowing to the US and Israel and the mainstream media, including the BBC. Journalists, should ‘man-up’ and start questioning the hideous lack of balanced reporting.
          The media – especially the BBC, insult our intelligence and show disrespect – and I’ve told them so.

          However, it’s not my job to propose a solution, so why do you ask? I’m just pointing out what most of us here know is manifestly wrong with politics and journalism when it comes to serious political affairs.

          • joel

            You weren’t referring to politics and journalism. You were complaining about a “homogenous [Jewish] cabal with too much self-interest at the exclusion of the rest of the world”.

          • Jo Dominich

            Garth you have said what all of us are thinking and know. I have made a detailed complaint to OffCom this week about the appalling BBC Panorama programme on alleged anti-Semitism. I’ll see what I get back. The BBC are an organisation that are in denial of their own blind support for the Conservative Government and that they are now the Propaganda Mouth Piece for same said Government.
            If only it were possible, I would like to see the British public stop buying MSM papers, hit them where it hurts. I can dream

      • Dredd

        These are very big claims: “the world is largely run by Jews” and “The world does seem disprortionately controlled by Jews”. I suggest the “world” alluded to here is only a subsection of our so-called Western nations (including Oz & NZ). And what about “largely run” … “controlled by”? I’m pretty sure that a number of other religions and communities have a sizeable influence too. If the emphasis is on their ‘disproportionality’ because their influence far outstrips their tiny population size, that’s a fair point, but it’s still only one strand amongst many. Politics weaves a tangled web, from many threads of different hues. The fact is that Jews are a numeric majority only in Israel – and arguably also in the fevered imaginations of people seeking easily-identifiable scapegoats.

        If the cabal responsible for these world ills are all greedy self-interested capitalists, then that’s what binds them together. Even if the Jews are over-represented by a factor of ten, they’d still be a minority amongst the whole group. So why single out the religion of a minority, if the objection is not actually to that religion? Or perhaps the objection is meant to be about their Zionist beliefs, and the words sometimes get mixed up? In any case, it’s the fact that they (and the others) are greedy capitalists that should be the focus of our resentment, not what they worship nor whom they hang around with.

        • Je

          Exaggerated descriptions of Jewish influence undermine the legitimate calling out of what the Israeli lobby really does.

          If you do a search for the “The Spies who Pushed for War” there’s an article on where the fraudulent WMD intelligence came from – Sharon’s office. Why did the Tories almost to a man vote for the invasion – because over 80% of their MPs were in friends of Israel. They didn’t say invade Iraq to protect Israel, they talked nonsense about Saddam being a threat to ‘the world’.

          This is largely unknown – why? Well, the Isreali lobby really loves people coming out with utter nonsense about Jews being some kind of cohesive collective behind everything… it helps them hide their role in the invasion of Iraq and so on no end…

          • Johny Conspiranoid

            “Well, the Isreali lobby really loves people coming out with utter nonsense about Jews being some kind of cohesive collective behind everything… it helps them hide their role in the invasion of Iraq and so on no end…”
            They might be manufacturing some of it themselves.

        • Garth Carthy

          “The fact is that Jews are a numeric majority only in Israel – and arguably also in the fevered imaginations of people seeking easily-identifiable scapegoats.”

          I’m not disputing the fact that there is a ‘numeric majority’ of Jews only in Israel.
          I’m saying that there IS a numeric majority of Jews in the Neo-Con leadership and the Neo-Cons are the foundation of the present hideous so-called ‘Free Market’ economics and it is this system that dominates the world market.
          Of course, the Jewishness of the Neo-Cons is not a problem per se – it’s the homogenous element that is the problem… I would not think it healthy if my own family had such enormous influence in pulling the levers of world power.
          The fact is that certain Jews – with Israeli government encouragement – are undermining people like Corbyn who has never been anti-Semite.
          Jews have so much to be proud of – Einstein, Chomsky, Rosalind Franklin…the list is endless. However, they also have much to be ashamed of – just as non-Jewish Brits in the past have much to be ashamed of – slavery, persecution of Jews.

          • Jo Dominich

            Garth,

            I read an article last week in a Jewish Newspaper – an Israeli MP, who is also a Secretary of State described Corbyn as a ‘Jew hater’ and that his election would obviously cause the Israeli Government international problems in terms of recognition of Palestine and other factors. Now, the Israeli Government, the BoD and other extreme Right Jewish organisations have created a ridiculous set of allegations, blown them up out of all proportion without a shred of evidence to back them up, and somehow, seem to be totally invested in believing their own propaganda against Corbyn. It is frightening stuff – a paranoid, Fascist, Apartheid Israel is a loose cannon with it’s own Government MPs openly advocating Genocide of the Palestinians as ‘the only solution to the problem’. Now, where have I heard that before?

      • J

        By the same token one might as well argue that many of our most interesting and original ideas occured in the minds and among the thoughts of Jews: Marx, Wittgenstein, Einstein, Freud, Kafka, Adorno, Lessing, Hobsbawm, Arendt, Chomsky, Benjamin, Auerbach, Lem, Mandelbrot etc. If anything we might conclude that being Jewish is a sure sign of over achievement and something to be celebrated. As you recognise toward the end of your comment, the subject is about as useful as pointing out that many Roman emperors were from Italy. Go the extra mile to where we consider that while Judaism is a factor in who and what we are, just as being a Christian or a Muslim is a factor. Just as being a celebrity or a beggar is a factor. Just as being an artist or a scientist is a factor. Just as being male or female is a factor. There’s more fertile ground here. And if we really want to consider ‘cabals’ then by all means, hold forth on Masonry.

    • Je

      “Rothschild funded and created Israel”. Israel was largely created by the British who had the mandate over Palestine and then substantially funded by Germany.

      • Deb O'Nair

        The British also installed the Bolsheviks in Russia and got Germany to pay for it by using the Rothschild network which stretched across Europe in WW1.

        • Loony

          Really?

          How strange that you omit any explanation as to how the British facilitated the return of Lenin from Lake Geneva to Finland Station. Surely if the British were able to transport people at will through Germany then there would have been no need for the stagnant trench warfare that characterized the Great War/

          Still I guess the charm of some conspiracy theories is that they make absolutely no logical sense and are concocted in sneering defiance to facts.

          • Deb O'Nair

            “How strange that you omit any explanation as to how the British facilitated the return of Lenin from Lake Geneva to Finland Station.”

            There’s nothing ‘strange’ in not supplying every single detail. But seeing as you’ve asked, read up about British Rothschild man Alexander Parvus and his influence in getting the Germans to put up the gold that accompanied Lenin unimpeded through “the stagnant trench warfare”. While you’re at it have a look at the British instructing the Canadian authorities to release Trotsky, who was detained on his way from Manhatten to Moscow.

            “in sneering defiance to facts.”
            The only person I see sneering is you.

          • Deb O'Nair

            Nice brief synopsis of Parvus http://collectionsintime.blogspot.com/2014/04/alexander-parvus-liaison-of-rothschilds.htm

            I just realised the stupidity of your comment; re: “How strange that you omit any explanation as to how the British facilitated the return of Lenin from Lake Geneva to Finland Station.” When in fact I plainly said “by using the Rothschild network which stretched across Europe in WW1.” Lenin was of course dispatched to Geneva from London.

            I’ve done my bit, so please now tell me about these ‘facts’ which I am defying.

  • ReM

    The Tories claim that they are preparing for a general election; if Boris Johnson has surrounded himself by such ‘appalling cronies’, unpopular with the voters, then either popular opinion doesn’t win elections, or Johnson is just trying to spook the Opposition – i.e. advance their interests by forcing out (intimidating) unprotected rivals.

    • Ken Kenn

      Well the BBC ( other media mis – leaders are available ) have just allowed the Tories to have a free one month flying start at electioneering.

      Even the boring Lib Dems have had their moment in the sun and come up with a Tory leader described as a Liberal.

      The Anti – Semitism in the Labour Party has been flogged to death and not labour polices.

      I agree with Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein that it denigrates the actual suffering of the Holocaust victims and the survivors of that Holocaust by comparison to the current political climate.

      The bad news for Jewish people in the UK is that in actuality no one really cares that much about anti semitism except the BBC and other anti Corbyn media outlets with producers – commentators and sofa sitters with skin in the game – that is something to lose.

      Most people would think that it’s racism and some of it is but it’s part of the whole not the whole itself.

      But cynically those opponents of Corbyn and Labour use this anti semitism as a stick to beat Corbyn with and in all honesty the same people couldn’t give a flyer about Jewish people in general just as they don’t give a toss about any other forms of racism.

      See the Local Golf Club for details.

      The PM is bezzie mates with a racist President but that’s OK because they are both anti -muslim and in general they are not enamoured with anyone who isn’t white anyway.

      Anyway if Corbyn’s worse than Hitler epithets are supposedly accurate we now have a Cabinet of Neo Nazis as well so do we have a Parliament full of Nazis – Neo nazis or Ersatz Nazis?

      This is the most right wing Cabinet representing England ( and I choose my words carefully, England it is ) I’ve ever seen and Ironically this most Unionist Party is going to preside over the break up of the very Union they purport to cherish.

      These great patriots are then going to sell the UK to the Americans at a knock down price.

      Be careful with words and grammar though as that Grammar Nazi, Rees – Mogg will be watching with a beady eye.

      I genuinely get the sense that he would be an extremely relaxed politician in an authoritarian state.

      If we are not quick on our feet his dream might come true.

  • RandomComment

    I guess BJ’s elaborate exhortation of his passion to govern for all of the United Kingdom is not believed.

    On the one hand I see this as an entirely predictable, dog-whistle, post from an activist – and I have read some fabulous frothing by the acolytes 😉 “Far right of Thatcher”? Well you’ve slipped the phrase in without directly attributing it to Johnson’s government – which is a good move as they have yet to do anything. I thought Boris fancied himself as Churchill, not Hitler. In other words, an emotional appeal. Not that Johnson, and his newly-formed band of (by past actions allegedly) crooks aspire any confidence. Let’s face it: if you are correct, there is no need to say much – no-one wants a government far right of Thatcher (whatever that means). Not even the English, who, weirdly, hate shite governments as much as the next human.

    One the other hand….nah, there isn’t one

    • Casual Observer

      It’d not be too hard to think that Scots would view Johnson in a similar light to that Edward Hammer fellow who did Good Business ?

    • Laguerre

      “if you are correct, there is no need to say much – no-one wants a government far right of Thatcher (whatever that means).”

      You are obviously one of those who are easily taken in. It’s easy to dress up fascism as noble nationalism, wave the union jack a few times, and you’re in.

  • Goose

    One thing a Johnson govt may result in, is Europe finally gaining strategic autonomy. I think this is Blair’s real fear, and this is why I’m quite neutral some here may think strangely optimistic about a Johnson govt. He either no-deals, or there’s an election that possibly destroys the Tories.

    In a speech Macron told ambassadors: “I do not honestly think today that China or the United States thinks Europe is a power with strategic autonomy comparable to their own. I do not believe it.”

    In the fields of defence, foreign policy and the internet(servers and storage), Europe needs more autonomy, Europe shouldn’t try to shut the US out, but Europe needs a ‘conscious uncoupling’ our objectives simply don’t overlap in the way some claim they do.

    • Goose

      Sanguine is the word I was grasping for.

      On the domestic front here in the UK , I’m depressed by Corbyn’s plight with the PLP. But by strange confluence many things may be solved if Johnson leaves with no-deal. One of the things the PLP has been able to leverage is the EU and ‘remain’ , as a wedge issue with as predominantly pro-remain membership. Once it’s resolved(via Brexit) things should return to normal.

    • Loony

      As the EU is a US creation it seems unlikely that Europe will ever decouple from the US via the mechanism of the EU.

      In the event that Europe wants more autonomy then it must firstly free itself from the shackles of the EU.

      • Goose

        Each European country standing alone would be easy to pick off for the interfering US.

        NATO, despite its worthy origins is now a Cold War relic and has become a ball and chain for Europe; merely underlining that lack of autonomy and American preeminence. The fact European foreign policy marches in lockstep with US geopolitical strategic aims can only be explained this way. The US props up the most vicious, brutal dictatorships in the world from Egypt to the Gulf Monarchies, it unilaterally hands Golan to Israel and turns a blind eye to Israel’s nuclear weapons programme and its expansionism, and not a word of criticism from the feeble EU or European govts.

        What Macron and Heiko Maas Germany’s Foreign minister have talked about would be a hugely positive development. The world needs different power centers as a counter to an increasingly insane American exceptionalism or the risk of Russian/Chinese dominance.

        • Loony

          So can European countries “standing together” defend themselves from the US?

          How do you think places like Bulgaria and the Baltic states came to join the EU? How many times did President Clinton visit Bulgaria? What exactly is in Bulgaria that is so interesting to the US. What does Bulgaria have to offer the EU? A few cheap workers, but Europe is importing cheap people by their millions – a few additional Bulgarians makes no difference.

          The answer is that the EU agreed to Bulgarian membership because that is what the US required as part of its anti-Russian strategy. A similar thing was attempted in the Ukraine – but so far the Russians have stood firm.

          What does Europe gain by antagonizing Russia? Russia supplies significant portions of EU energy requirements. A small number of Europeans can remember when the Russians came to visit – do you think they were sorry to see them leave. In the event that Russia can be provoked into some form of military response do you think they would find it easier to attack the EU or the US?

          If you live in the UK try asking random people what exactly they know about Bulgaria. The answers you receive are likely to revolve around the phrase “not much” So you have a country about which people know very little and are yet somehow desperate to be in an economic and political union with. How does that make sense?

          The US requires that Bulgaria be in the EU. The EU does not require Bulgaria and Bulgaria does not require the EU. What does that tell you about European autonomy.

          • Goose

            I don’t envisage a hostile or antagonistic future US – EU relationship… that’s the whole problem with this discussion , people immediately see it as anti-US. Seeking more autonomy just means being more independent. The EU desperately needs to chart its own foreign policy course not act like it’s taking orders from Washington all the time.

            It’s true what you say, that the US has pushed for eastern European countries to be admitted into the EU and NATO. In the case of Ukraine it’s deeply dangerous, as Nato carries joint defence obligations. The EU collectively should resist.

          • giyane

            Bulgaria is better tooled up than Sheffield. The EU needs Bulgaria very badly indeed.
            It’s difficult to see what benefit the UK might be to Europe apart from the nano-isation of banking interest rendering it invisible / indivisible. Why would anybody want the destructive skills of interest? A lot more destructive than AK 47s physically and socially.

      • Laguerre

        “As the EU is a US creation it seems unlikely that Europe will ever decouple from the US via the mechanism of the EU.”

        Funny then that US governments have been trying to do down the EU for 20-30 years. Ever since the EU became an economic rival to the US. It’s only come out into the open since Trump came to power, but it was there long before. Funny how your theory doesn’t work when faced with that evident fact.

    • Johny Conspiranoid

      Goose;
      The americans now seek to break up the EU to prevent its re-alignment with Russia.

      • Laguerre

        The EU is an economic rival, that’s why. Nobody is really concerned about Russia; it’s all a fake enemy, necessary to push through various political aims.

    • Dungroanin

      Britain strong armed itself into the EEC when the Fed/cfr/neocon cabal realised that it was going towards an ever closer union rather than remaining the single market that. would be easier to consume for their conglomorates.

      The UK was sent in to prevent the economic and political unity – the creation of a united states of Europe, with its own currency (independence from the $ and the Fed) and ultimately its own foreign policies and security (independence from Nato).

      The UK used its veto incessantly in an effort to disrupt the orderly and organic evolution of the EU. Inncluding the rapid entry of the easter europeans to inevitably unbalance the economic ever closer union.

      Having largely achieved the disruption but not death of these goals, when the EU finally got round to being able to move towards greater regulations to stop tax evasion, money laundering and off-shoring with the British veto not being able to be deployed any more, the final card of that initial barging into the EEC is being played out – a barging out, trying to cause as much damage as possible.

      Brexit is the project of the City and the neocons as much as our entry was.

    • Deb O'Nair

      The comments are particularly amusing, if you are not offended by the “C” word.

      • giyane

        I am deeply offended by the C word, with both small and capital C.
        Recidivist Party is a more accurate description of the Tories. i’m quite fond of other types of c.

    • giyane

      RoS

      links to twitter or FB make no sense to those who refuse to surrender their entire life details to an unaccountable monopoly run by traitors like Nick Clegg and the other wierdo.

      I smell the irony. Rm probably irons himself every morning before breakfast before packing himself into a shoebox with tissue and arches supports.

      I didn’t want to be any the wiser anyway

  • Tamas Marcuis

    It’s easy to criticise the SNP leadership when you are not the ones who will be blamed if things go badly. So far they have not made anything that might be considered irreversible mistakes. Even over the last five years or even last two, there are things we all see in hind sight. But the direction of events works to produce a more advantageous environment to gain independence. Johnson and his followers really are as corrupt and incompetent as they seem. We are dealing with the “bring back National Service”, flogging and reinstate imperial measurements, mob here. I am surprised they haven’t floated the idea of reducing school leaving age to 14. There are a few who nodded along to the idea of increasing the army and navy, to enable “actions that support British interests”. That is invading African countries to install puppet governments. Defacto colonies in other words. This is their moment to realise all their unmentionable fantasies.

    In the context of Scotland it will be a case of “putting them in their place” and “showing them who is boss”. For the likes of your new Scottish Secretary that means demonstrating they can do what ever they please. All of you in Scotland all ready know they could get rid of Hollyrood at a moments notice or impose what ever policy they wish. Just knowing that you were all aware of the fact was good enough for the UK government up till now. But you can be sure that Davidson and the rest of the Conservatives in Hollyrood have tried to convince London to overturn every SNP government policy and impose Tory policies. A permanent Conservative government over Scotland regardless of the number of MSPs. Of course preserving the illusion that Hollyrood is not as Blair put it “a parish council” is more useful.

    But for the Johnson government anything less than naked power is unimaginable. They want to belittle Hollyrood and for everyone to be fully aware of who holds all the power. This will be Flashman flogging Tom Brown without boxing lessons. Of course a portion of the Scottish population will be overjoyed. Labour, LibDem and Conservative politicians, activists and devoted voters most of all. They will do away with the pretence of democracy in Scotland because it no longer pleases them. This will not be a return to pre devolution UK. Because Scottish MPs and politics have been permanently downgraded. For English voters it is absolutely unacceptable for someone from Scotland to be in a position of authority in government. A few pets will get low level ministries and junior positions. Which is easy to conceal even from their Scottish MPs since there are so few. For Scottish Conservatives it is a contest of how grovelling, obsequiously loyal they are to the party and outrageously ridiculously they express devotion to the UNION. The only prize being Scottish Secretary. It being more akin to running a check in desk for a very bad airline. I wonder if the Scottish Secretary has to serve the tea and biscuits at cabinet meetings, or even be there.

    Devolution was meant to remove any desire for independence. Tories and now Labour believe it is The Reason that desire exists. They have made the classic error of mistaking effect for cause. I personally think it only concealed the generational shift for a time. If you track data back to the 1960s from 2014 the underlying trend has been steady increasing support for independence. You have now crossed the half way line. As cold as it sounds unionist are dying and being replaced at the ballot box by pro independence votes. You have heard all this before. It means however hard the UK cranks out propaganda nothing works. So they will give up and resort to naked intimidation. You know because that worked everywhere else didn’t it.

    How does that work for the SNP? It makes people ready to hear the message. Just like in Ireland when people really were not listening. Until the British authorities started shooting people. Today they will likely just throw people in prison. But I can imagine a Johnson visit where the crowd gets out of hand and one of his body guards shoots into the crowd. A teenager dies and the BBC launches a smear campaign against the victim and their family. You can well imagine the things Johnson and friends say behind closed doors and the general dehumanising of Scots. A general attitude that all things are permissible in Scotland because it is the exception to all rules. I have experienced first hand how quickly things escalate. What people in power will do when they are convinced they are untouchable.

    • Hatuey

      I’m really not sure we should be worried about BJ’s bodyguards shooting into Scottish crowds when there are more pressing things to be imagined.

      Your comments on independence reflect the reason Scotland will never escape the Union, being so full of fearfulness and calculation rather than passion.

      It’s interesting though that when people talk of colonies and empires, they tend to imagine that they are talking about one country imposing its will on another. The British though were more or less invited to run India, piece by piece, and if they eventually ended up imposing themselves it was with the help and consent of many millions of Indians.

      The same can be said of so many other British colonies and other empires and it could most certainly be said of Scotland now. There are enough scared, cooperative, and collusive people in Scotland to ensure the Union will last. The real enemies of independence, then, are right in our beards, not in London.

      And when you look at those who eventually chased the British, they were people who were driven largely by passion. They were willing to take risks and stand up for themselves. America is a good example — consent given up until a point, then withdrawn and independence.

      I think Hume worked it out. We are governed by consent.

      • yr hen gof

        “The British though were more or less invited to run India, piece by piece, and if they eventually ended up imposing themselves it was with the help and consent of many millions of Indians”.
        I have read much on the history of the British East India Company and the subsequent ‘British Raj’ and frankly there is little if anything to justify your statement.
        My grandfather took part in the Third Burma War 1887 and although poorly educated he understood all too well that it was about no more than regime change and the absorption of Burma into the Raj. Naturally at the defeat of King Thibaw the British organised the looting of the palace and city of Mandalay. Many items that could be easily transported such as gold, jewellery, silk and ornamental objects were shipped back to Britain and presented as gifts to the royal family and notables of Britain, others were auctioned off, raising a profit of 900,000 rupees. An organisation: the “Prize Committee, Mandalay”, was instituted to dispose of the possessions of the former Burmese government.
        In brief: https://www.thoughtco.com/the-british-raj-in-india-195275

  • Adrian Evitts

    What I don’t understand is how such weak government has been able to ride roughshod over the vulnerable for all these years – under Cameron and May. They have such a slender majority and yet they are going to deliver the most brutal form of Brexit and will to continue to vandalise public services and starve them of cash. How come?

    • Goose

      The press, media in general.

      Take tonight’s pathetic fawning on Newsnight with someone introduced as the Official historian of the Conservative Party Lord Lexden(?) comparing Johnson to Disraeli, who he informed us “… was an incredibly flamboyant person… loved cutting a dash, being noticed, irregular private life…” The presenter, establishment toady Kirsty Wark gleefully nodded along.

      Then on Twitter Newsnight highlight Lexden’s comments :

      “One must remember that 60 years ago Tories were very strong in Liverpool… in Manchester… in Newcastle”

      Lord Lexden, official historian of the Conservative party praises Boris Johnson’s “vigour” in journeying around the country

      Could really despise the BBC.

    • Jo Dominich

      Adrian,

      Ah, with support from the Lib Dems, the DUP and the likes of Change UK, Chukka Ummuna as an independent et etc

  • John Monro

    Agree, Craig. Scotland needs to give the biggest shock of all to Boris and his cronies, basically they need to be told if he’s going to disenfranchise Scotland, then Scotland needs to disenfranchise him. He’s even had the nerve to call himself the “Minister for the Union”. He must know that he’s put the Union under threat, but I’m not sure what distorted logic of his would suggest to him this is either a good idea, or will mollify the Welsh, the Scots or the N Irish. I’ve said for a long time it will not be some red under the bed or some revolutionary movement that will see the Union rend asunder, but the sheer carelessness, moral vacuity and self-aggrandisement of a dysfunctional two nation supposedly “Unionist” Tory party will so sicken the populations of those non-English citizens of the UK, they’ll wish to have no more of it. Like you, Craig, it’s past time that the Scottish citizenry seized this opportunity. Things will only get worse if they don’t. It also might just stimulate the punch drunk citizens of England to do something urgent and dramatic to this truly awful new government, and bring it down in flames. .

  • David

    BBC R4 5:30am News Briefing played a minute or so of the transatlantic Orange Oracle, waxing lyrically about his new upcoming trade deal withe Boris, gonna do a great deal, double, triple the amount of trade, we’ve been held back, now going to trade [bigly?] with the country of Great Britain , and with the place , you don’t often hear about , England…..(almost an accurate transcribe, he might’ve used a few more “amazings”, which I prob filtered out)

    Does this mean he’s already discounting the Scottish, Irish secession? Is this part of the sew-Chaos plan, should there be such, across the wider-28, and the more local kingdoms?

  • N_

    Boris Johnson has “provided an assurance”, according to the BBC – promised, in ordinary English – that there will not be a general election before the night of the devils and demons when the shelves will run bare and the lights will go out 31 October, henceforth to be called Saint Malthus’s Day.

    Regime media asked him the question, and he replied “absolutely”.

    There are few words that more clearly ask for a smack in the mouth than “absolutely”, used as a pretentious alternative for “yes” by those who want to convey that they can’t talk to the person in front of them without being so completely up themselves caste-wise as to want all the time to let them know that they wouldn’t want to waste equal-to-equal English on such a toe-rag. Car salesmen use it too. They would never dare say it to anybody in the royal family. A lot could be said about this usage, but of course, Britain being Britain, it isn’t. When A says “absolutely” to B, you will notice that it isn’t the place of B to say the word back to A.

    So that’s one thing.

    The other is that a prime minister cannot stop a general election if the House of Commons votes no confidence in his government and then doesn’t pass a vote of confidence in it or another government within a fortnight.

    All of the media coverage is bullsh*ttingly promoting Boris Johnson as a super-STRONG prime minister. This is for example how his cabinet selections have been spun, even though the vast majority of his cabinet picks are no strangers to cabinet meetings, including Sajid Javid, Dominic Raab, Priti Patel, Gavin Williamson, and Andrea Leadsom – and as I understand it, Ben Wallace also attended Theresa May’s cabinet as security minister.

    The theme is being continued by whoever it was at the BBC who asked Johnson the question he wanted to hear, being whether he could “provide an assurance” that there will be no general election before Devils’ Night. When Johnson said “absolutely”, the BBC pillock didn’t respond “Well actually that’s not true, is it, Prime Minister? You don’t have the legal authority, do you? If it looks as though your minority government is about to lose the confidence of the Commons, are you planning to shut Parliament down so that you can stay in office? Is that how you would prevent a general election before 31 October? Are you sure the Supreme Court would rule in your favour, Prime Minister?”

    Note that Parliament would have to be prorogued before a successful vote of no confidence, not directly after. If it were shut down directly after, the 14 day period would still apply.

    I could imagine that if Jeremy Corbyn is about to table a motion of no confidence and enough Tory or ex-Tory MPs have indicated they will vote in favour of the motion, the White Phosphorus pro-Zionazi mob that dominates the PLP will then abstain, supposedly because of the left’s supposed (but actually non-existent) “anti-Semitism”.

    Or of course they could even allow a general election, with Johnson portrayed as the strong leader who saves the country in its time of trouble. He could simply lie and say he didn’t issue any promise about not holding a general election. He could do a Trump.

    The poshboys in Britain are gearing up for giving the population of Britain such an almighty beating up, as they approach the final realisation of their age-old Tory dream of removing the “good life” from the “proles”. As Tories they are brought up believing that the Great Unwashed have never deserved their current standard of living. That is precisely what Toryism is all about. That belief IS Tory culture. No standard of living would be low enough for those filthy wretches, in the Tory world view which is now an eschatology. “Critics” who bat around with the phrase “nasty party” have little or no idea of what they are actually dealing with.

    • Tom

      An independent media would be demanding an election and calling Johnson out for seizing power without the public voting on it – not tamely ‘asking’ about one. Where are the front pages denouncing this unelected regime and calling for Johnson to face the country?
      Sadly, none of our mainstream media is independent anymore – just a propaganda arm of the government. The BBC and Guardian are almost most contemptible by posing as friends of liberal opinion while in fact enabling the Tories with a blatant lack of scrutiny, at the same time hurling bile and lies at the Labour leadership and other opposition parties.

      • Goose

        How Russia spreads disinformation via RT is more nuanced than we realise
        – Robert Elliott

        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/26/russia-disinformation-rt-nuanced-online-ofcom-fine

        This made me chuckle. At least he had the honesty to they were state sponsored. As for his threadbare analysis, yes, RT does push stories that run counter to the lines parroted in the MSM it’s refreshing to hear a different perspective, take the plight of Assange who’s suffering under something akin to a media blackout in the MSM. Viewers are discerning, who is he to think they aren’t?

        As for his stated belief the BBC offers the unvarnished truth, well that’s laughably absurd. The BBC has horrendously biased domestic political coverage and lies both in fact and more importantly, by omission (take the Palestinian struggle that is never reported on). And why was Bellingcat treated as the definitive source for Skripal information?

        • yr hen gof

          The BBC is daily guilty of knowingly undermining democracy both at home and abroad.

          What I wonder would be a suitable punishment?

          For me, I’d make them Pay Per View, they’d be bankrupt before the One O’Clock News.
          I fear however the Tories might abolish the TV Tax (doubtless a very popular move) and then run it into Council Tax, so none would avoid paying for state propaganda whether they own a TV or not.
          It’s the sort of move one could imagine Herr Goebbels would have enthusiastically embraced.

          The downside for the BBC in the long term is the loyal viewing public’s loss of love and interest in them as a broadcaster. Neither we nor our adult children ever watch anything on it, or its various channels, our grandchildren have no idea what it’s for other than a form of distraction for those forcibly imprisoned in geriatric care facilities.

    • Republicofscotland

      “He could do a Trump.”

      Well he’d need to go some (And I’m sure he will) to outdo this sociopath.

      “The US Supreme Court has said that President Donald Trump can use $2.5bn (£2bn) of Pentagon funds for a section of wall on the southern border.”

      Trump added this is a big victory.

      Easy I suppose when the Relublicans control the Supreme court.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49135255

      I wonder if Boris will have his hard border on Scottish independence.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Oh, my day is complete. Robin Caspar Walker named Undersecretary of State to the Scotland Office. From his Wiki, son of Lord Walker of Worcester, educated at St Paul’s School (private), Balliol College Oxford – Ancient and Modern History, “having apparently no links with Scotland”.
    Ruth’s fragile psyche must be reaching critical. The Hydrogen bond keeps volatile Hydrogen and Oxygen as nice safe water. Apply enough energy and you get dissociation followed by a big bang. How much more of Johnson’s trolling can the psychology “Hydrogen bond” that binds the “Conservative and Unionists” in the Scottish Conservative and Unionists Party take?

    • Sharp Ears

      Is that the late Peter Walker, one of the Heath/Thatcher henchpersons?
      ‘Whilst at the Department for Energy he played an important role in the Government’s successful opposition to the 1984–85 miners’ strike.’
      I bet he did. I have a vague memory of him but well remember the dreadful scenes at Orgreave. Mounted police were charging at the strikers and mowing them down. Thatcher had brought McGregor over from America to shut down the mines.
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ian-macgregor-scourge-of-miners-dies-1156189.html

      Later on he supported the hospice movement. Note his financial connections to banking, insurance and business..
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Walker,_Baron_Walker_of_Worcester

      • Sharp Ears

        Robin Walker’ wife was the CEO of the Tony BLiar Faith Foundation.

        A little touch of humanity here from him but no mention of the Occupation of Palestine by Israel.
        ‘In July 2014, Walker called on Prime Minister David Cameron to use “every tool in the box” to de-escalate the violence in Gaza, and bring both sides to the table.’
        https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/11358391.mp-robin-walker-urges-pm-to-use-every-tool-in-the-box-to-cool-gaza-tensions/
        with the usual stuff from Cameron.

        Then, almost comical, – ‘Walker was opposed to Brexit prior to the 2016 Referendum. In July 2016, he was appointed as Minister at the Department for Exiting the European Union, in the government led by Theresa May.’ !!

        and ‘He campaigned for Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom during Scotland’s referendum on independence.’
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Walker

      • yr hen gof

        And there reporting on Orgreave we found the BBC, who ‘inadvertently; mixed up in editing’ and reversed the order of the film to make it look like the miners charged the police.
        Has there been a time when the BBC wasn’t the corrupt mouthpiece of the establishment?

        • Dungroanin

          No.
          From the General Strike onwards.

          It is an extension of the CIA operation of having their mouthpieces in every msm in the world. They train many a ‘journalist’ at their private universities before launching them in their careers to the top in their designated organs.

      • Goose

        The BBC covered Johnson’s speech live, then its presenters (or more accurately producer(s) in their ear) tell us that northern Brexit voters are likely to swayed in any upcoming election by Johnson bearing gifts.

        This isn’t impartial reporting, it’s spin.

        Also, Dateline London, with someone who acts more like a Tory spokesman, Alex Deane, appearing again yet again. Notice how presenter Carrie Gracie very quickly shut down French-Algerian journalist Nabila Ramdani when she mentioned Priti Patel’s controversial links to the Israeli govt.

        And Ofcom have the cheek to fine RT.

        • Sharp Ears

          Deane moves along on a trail of slime. It’s that supercilious look that also aggravates.

          Sky and the BBC bring him on at regular intervals. Who is he and who employs him? A very thin entry here.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Deane

          He has already put his Dateline appearance today on his Twitter. Self promotion.
          https://twitter.com/ajcdeane?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

          Described as a ‘British political commentator’ by Ms Gracie.
          https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00079bd/dateline-london-27072019

          • Goose

            Henry Newman is another.

            They’re sometimes presented as ‘journalists’ on the newspaper review shows, but they seem to be little more than Tory mouthpieces. In fact they are very partisan, the day either says anything remotely positive about Labour or Corbyn the clocks will stop.

            Outrageous how they are presented as neutral commentators when they are anything but.

            They aren’t alone either, as discussed here previously, there are numerous other less than transparent, right-wing think tanks getting people on shows.

          • Goose

            Just as an aside. I remember when Alex Deane was on Sky News newspapers’ review show discussing anti-Semitism vs anti-Zionism, it was some story he’d picked out about Labour, and he suddenly came out with “I am a Zionist” . Even the presenter looked taken aback.

  • Toby

    Agreed, this is a very poor cabinet. Quite possibly the worst we have seen since 1945.

    Johnson seems to have actively sought out people who were sacked or resigned in disgrace, along with the generally ignorant and unprincipled.

    But please don’t mistake their mix of neo-conservatism, authoritarianism and corporatism for “right wing”.

    Ron Paul is arguably far to the right of this lot and I know who I would rather have in charge.

    • Goose

      I can’t fathom why he didn’t make Steve Baker Brexit Secretary?

      I mean, we can all disagree with Baker politically, but few doubt he’s far more capable than Stephen Barclay, who, in a surprise decision, retained the role. Maybe Johnson thought appointing Baker would be too provocative a move, given he’d fired so many ministers?

      In general it’s a very poor cabinet. Many incompetents among the ranks. If Johnson really is intent on Brexit ‘do or die’ then leaving out people like Owen Paterson and Steve Baker seems like a huge error.

      • Toby

        An important and overlooked point.

        The short answer is because Johnson doesn’t actually care about Brexit: it’s power he’s after.

        The longer answer is that Baker, who really does care about Brexit would never have played along with Johnson’s plan, which is as follows:

        1) Ask EU for changes to the WA, which he knows they will not grant.
        2) Make a show of preparing for no deal, which he knows MPs will probably block.
        3) Having accidentally-on-purpose met an impasse, “reluctantly” hold General election on a “patriotic” Brexit platform in which he hopes to buy off (or neutralise) the Brexit Party as he faces fragmented and weak Pro-Remain parties.
        3) Having gained a working majority he will then u-turn and accept a tweaked version on May’s WA (he will say it’s totally different) and live on in No10 happily ever after.

        Or so he hopes.

        • Goose

          Toby

          ‘Johnson doesn’t actually care about Brexit: it’s power he’s after.

          I disagree. Johnson appears to favour no-deal having put down what’s surely an unacceptable ultimatum : Ditch the backstop or no talks.

          That’s pretty big indication of his direction of travel, keep in mind there are only 12 weeks left!

          I honestly think he’s gone so far building his new team; forcing resignations and firing ministers, he’s just calculated he’d be pushing it into the red zone by appointing a hard-Brexiter like Baker.

          • Republicofscotland

            I’d imagine the staunch Brexiteer Johnson will just let the clock rundown until the 31st of October without doing anything meaningful, and then we’re out without a deal just as he wants.

          • michael norton

            Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed as Leader of the House of Commons
            and Lord President of the Council.
            Mr. & Mrs. Rees-Mogg are together worth £150 million, so I doubt he is in it just for the money but him and his sister are true believers in Brexit, she is a Brexit Party MEP and he is also chaiman of the European Research Group
            the only reason for that group is extreme hard Brexit.
            Jacob will have control of government business, he is also the interseeder between Boris and the Queen, it would quite possibly Jacob talking the queen into proroguing parliament.

            Boris has chosen Jacob as his bag-man
            to get extreme hard brexit over the cliff on Halloween.

        • Ingwe

          For those baffled about some of Bj’s appointments and the elevation of his former back stabbing “chum” Gove and the Latin spouting plutocrat Rees-Mogg should read an earlier post by Mr Murray. They really do want to see an end to Anglo Irish Agreement (whatever Johnson may bluster) and a no deal Brexit will achieve just that.

          https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/?s=Anglo+Irish+agreement

  • Sackerson

    Usually I look to you for information or angles on subjects that are suppressed in the mainstream media, but there are one or two topics where you seem to exhibit a galvanic response. I suppose even the brightest minds have their red-button issues.

    Surely you know that the EU is neoliberal in its economics – vide Costas Lapavitsas” “The Left Case Against The EU” – and intent on Empire-building, interfering in countries as far away as Mali (and thereby compromising Ireland’s military neutrality by the involvement there of Eire’s troops, as Irish Midlands MEP Luke “Ming” Campbell explains.)

    Yes, one element among Leavers are “free traders” who are happy to see capital smash-and-grab its way about the world – though on a local scale that is what the EU does also. But there always was and should be a Left vision of a sovereign nation working for the good of all its people, which is not on the menu in the EU as its peripheral members are sadly only too aware.

    I suppose this splenetic outburst is related to your hope for an independent Scotland, but in that case why should the UK also not be allowed to desire independence? And how much more wealth and liberty do you imagine Scotland would have in the event (unfeasible I understand) of her being a separate member of the EU?

    “Ken Clarke, Chris Patten, John Major, Virginia Bottomley, Douglas Hurd and William Waldegrave” – corporatist anti-democrats: you want “right wing”, you’ve got it there. Guys who despise the people – Major prided himself on knowing “how to talk to the man in the four-ale bar,” like knowing that koalas need to be fed eucalyptus.

    Maybe you’re drawing your political graph all wrong – it’s not Left v Right, it’s Horseshoe Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

    • Goose

      @Sackerson

      Realpolitik…. or the art of the possible… I guess is the answer.

      Under normal circumstances, if all were being honest, I’m sure many would hold the view it’s undesirable and less than ideal for those pursuing Scottish independence to make EU membership central to that argument; as Scottish independence should and indeed can stand alone on its own merits(EU or no EU). However without Brexit, Sturgeon simply can’t make the case for another referendum – as Brexit represents that ‘fundamental change of circumstances’ (or whatever the wording is) that can justify triggering another vote.

      • Republicofscotland

        “However without Brexit, Sturgeon simply can’t make the case for another referendum”

        Not quite, Brexit hadn’t raised it head in the 2014 indyref, and Yes did pretty well in the polls. So much so in one poll that Cameron ordered his no men to flood Scotland, someone filmed then on their arrival at Central station, and added the music from Star Wars, the Imperial troops march as they headed off.

        Not satisified with this Gordon Brown the notorious closed shop speaker, and Alistair Darling leader of Better Together hatched a deal with the Mephistophelian like news rag the Daily Record and produced the Vow.

        In the end Yes lost to the overwhelming lies of the whole unionist machine, however the support for independence did not die away. Brexit or no Brexit the balance will shift to yes eventually.

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