Savile and the Low Hanging Fruit

by craig on November 2, 2012 1:54 pm in Uncategorized

Talk of “round up the usual suspects”. Gary Glitter and Freddie Starr are not even low-hanging fruit for the Met, they are windfalls.

Jimmy Savile’s behaviour was evidently priapistic, and his predeliction for under-age sex, it is plain, was indulged continually in semi-public situations. The risk or exposure, or the thrill of his own incredible immunity, appear to have been part of the enjoyment.

I do not accept that there were two Jimmy Saviles; that one, the open pervert, only appeared when he was with the conveniently already discredited Gadd and Starr, and the other entirely respectable Savile was the friend of Royalty, senior politicians and public servants and entirely blameless in his behaviour. It seems to me much more intrinsically probable that the mutual indulgence of shared vices was the stuff of his friendships in both groups.

Savile’s elevation into the social elite brought him the immunity from prosecution for sexual exploitation that social elites always appear to enjoy. The “posh” part of Savile’s social circle continues to be protected, while Glitter and Starr will satisfy the public mood for revenge.

I am sure there is a great deal more to know than Glitter and Starr. I fear we shall never be permitted to know it.

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177 Comments

  1. Chris Jones

    2 Nov, 2012 - 2:08 pm

    How far up might it go ?

  2. about 6-8 inches I would say, Chris, preferably with a red hot poker.

  3. Savile could not have operated with impunity for decades without there being a network of people in high places protecting him. Savile is dead, Glitter has already served time he and Starr are old men, but when are the high ranking police officers and politicians (some of whom have their names already implicated on the internet), going to be held to account?

    I used to live in Jersey, I really think you should read Stuart Syvret’s blog – if you don’t know him already he is a whistle blower like yourself who has paid a very high price for trying to expose the truth.

    http://stuartsyvret.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/just-ask-damn-question.html

  4. Scarborough tainted

    http://www.real-whitby.co.uk/did-north-yorks-police-fix-it-for-jim

    +
    {http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/acharacters.php}

    The modern era has provided its fair share of characters such as Peter Jaconelli – a successful businessman who was active in the Fishermen’s and Fireman’s charity. No one would describe him as an average man. He was average in height but in no other way – particularly in his width. This huge Italian Ice cream maker and seller acquired his huge size by eating huge amounts of oysters and even made an attempt at the world record for eating them. He also played judo and was particularly good at it in his younger days often in contests on the beach. Later in life he was an important member of the town council. But he was always seen in his ice cream parlour greeting the many tourists in his own distinctive way.

    Jimmy Saville cannot be left off the list of lovable eccentrics and characters of the borough. This former Radio One DJ was arguably the first ever true DJ. He was the first DJ to use two decks so he could keep the music going. He has lived in Scarborough for many years and will often be seen walking in his track suits,gold chains and huge cigars. At the height of his fame he hosted “Jim’ll Fix It” on prime time TV. He used to make dreams come true for youngsters.

    !!!!

    and a grovelling obituary in the Guardian by Martin Wainwright
    {http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/1999/may/20/guardianobituaries.martinwainwright}

  5. I hope you don’t mind me posting this here and asking people who have an interest in lifting the lid on the cover up which took place in Jersey, from the Home Office down to sign the petition.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/ukhomeoffice-restore-the-visa-of-banned-journalist-leah-mcgrath-goodman-freejersey?utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

  6. Hmmm. He was very chummy with Thatcher, but much as I execrate her memory I seriously doubt she was a kiddy-fiddler. Guilt by association would vastly extend the scope of the enquiry.

    We could maybe have some confidence in Yew Tree if we knew it was headed by a – preferably female – policeman with a strong record in combating paedophilia and a rigorous approach to dishonest policemen.

    But Peter Spindler? I don’t want to damn the man, but –

    Commander Peter Spindler, of the Met, admitted more than 130 employees left Scotland Yard over the past year instead of facing disciplinary measures.

    But he said in many cases it is more ‘pragmatic’ to let them resign…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081199/Criminal-record-1k-officers-convictions-police.html

    Sure, it’s the Daily Wail, but it’s worth a raised eyebrow at least.

  7. Last December I received a telephone call concerning Jimmy Savile’s apparent sexual abuse of underage girls in the 1970s. The details I heard were pretty chilling, but the negative reaction when I tried (unsuccessfully) to report the claims in the national press was equally troubling. There is every indication that the Leveson inquiry into press standards was to blame.

    My source said that a Newsnight investigation into Savile’s activities had been shelved by the BBC in mysterious circumstances and encouraged me to find out more. I learnt that Newsnight had heard that Savile and two other celebrities, both still alive, had abused many different girls on BBC premises and in the Surrey countryside, when Savile visited an all-girls approved school called Duncroft. Newsnight also discovered that Savile had been questioned over sex crimes by Surrey police in 2007.

    [..]

    Over two weeks I contacted six national news desks. One after another rejected the idea. I consistently suggested that it would not be necessary for anyone to accuse Savile outright of abusing children, simply to report that Newsnight had jettisoned its exposé despite significant-seeming findings, of which I knew quite a bit. Newsnight’s groundwork could then be developed, or perhaps other victims would come forward.

    Yet it was futile. Some papers told me that because Savile had been dead less than two months the story was ‘in bad taste’, whatever its provenance. Others said that if the police hadn’t prosecuted Savile in his lifetime, it wouldn’t be worth pursuing him now. And a couple of news desks judged that material like this was ‘best avoided’ for the time being.

    /..
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8743711/leveson-and-jimmy-savile/

  8. How far does it go you ask ?……

    everywhere.

    ALL sections of government and politics including the both houses and No 10,
    The Media and Entertainment industries,
    Law, courts, judges, prison system,
    All branches of the Military,
    All Education establishments,
    All health services and Medical establishments,
    All High ranking Police officials,
    Public and Private corporations.

    Perverts run the asylum.

  9. Pauline Barten.

    2 Nov, 2012 - 2:53 pm

    I fear you are right, Craig. It’s not rocket science for the police to have investigated this sooner. Instead suspects are told beforehand, the police want to interview them.This gives them plenty of time to have their story straight.If the only evidence the police claim to have is the victims statements, it’s pathetic.Whatever happened to good detective work ?. They have the means for covert surveillence.Or is that only used against people putting the wrong kind of rubbish in a wheely bin?.

  10. This seems apposite (as well as brilliant).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xi-agPf95M

  11. English Knight

    2 Nov, 2012 - 3:01 pm

    Blair D-Notice – Dunblane tie with NATO Secretary General

    http://www.tpuc.org/node/34

  12. Mary, re: Scarborough tainted.
    I grew up in Scarborough during the ’60’s and 70’s. Peter Jaconelli was a well known local character and kiddy fiddler. He only employed young lads between 13 and 15 and it was well known that he liked to touch them up often offering money for them to go somewhere private with him. His brother Albert was the same. Both had ice-cream shops on the South Bay. In Albert’s shop, which was under the Futurist Theatre, he would sit in an alcove that had a one-way mirrored glass window to the top and a beaded curtain beneath, which you ducked through to get inside. If you were unfortunate enough to work for him (and he only employed boys) he would sit in his alcove unseen and watch you. He was well creepy and was always asking you if you liked ice-cream. I know, I worked for him for a season. He was quite touchy-feely and only stopped when I told him to leave me alone. No-one ever questioned them yet the police must have known about their antics. Horrible horrible men

  13. larry Levin

    2 Nov, 2012 - 3:04 pm

    watch the following video from 35mins onwards. Savile’s links to Israel and Jersey,

    this will blow your mind, he names names

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJtLsKtGCSY

  14. Neil Saunders

    2 Nov, 2012 - 3:05 pm

    True, Glitter and Starr are sacrificial victims. Those higher up the pecking-order will remain inviolate.

    It’s also true that the Savile story has deflected media (and therefore public) attention from another child-abuse story, that in Rochdale, etc., where men (mainly, if not exclusively, of Pakistani origin) have sexually groomed underage girls.

  15. larry Levin

    2 Nov, 2012 - 3:07 pm

    this Savile case has similiar undertones to the Marc Dutroux case in Belgium, 100,000’s marched in the streets but it has been hushed up in the UK.

    Also we are led ot believe that murdoch/sky are deadly rivals of the bbc, so how come murdoch sky with his phone tapping and detectives and dodgy cops never exposed savile? Murdoch/sky the dog that did not bark.

    Paedophilia is being used as a tool of control, once you have molested or killed a child you can be safely promoted into a position of power and become an “asset” to those who have the compromising evidence.

  16. larry Levin

    2 Nov, 2012 - 3:12 pm

    if you are in the bbc and know about children being molested, how can you prevent the victims going to the police??? I have an idea why not create an organisation for abused children who these poor victims can phone.

    childline was formed totally disconnected to the BBC, another dog that did not bark. paedophiles and rapists have figured out that its very hard to be convicted of these crimes. think rape has a 2% conviction rate.

  17. Royal servant George Smith made a rape allegation against more senior royal servant Michael Fawcett, whom he also alleged to be a male sex partner of Prince Charles.

    Those two allegations have never appeared in the British media, although they have been published abroad. When the appeared in Le Monde, that newspaper was prevented from coming into the country.

    Bill Oddie says he reckons the reason the BBC pulled the Savile programme was that Savile was friends with the royal family. I reckon Oddie is right.

    How many times did Prince Charles visit Haut de la Garenne?

  18. Princess Diana interviewed George Smith about his allegations, on tape. The tape was mentioned in the Princess Diana inquest, but had ‘gone missing’. Unfortunately, Mr Smith died, in his early 40s, before the inquest hearing started.

    Whoopsadaisy, eh?

  19. According to Guido Fawkes (I know, pah! pah!) tonight’s Newsnight has an expose of a high-placed paedophile

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/02/explosive-newsnight-in-pipeline/

  20. The royal family certainly has an unfortunate habit of mixing with paedophile ring leaders. This from 2008:

    “A former Buckingham Palace butler has been unmasked as a sexual predator who ran a paedophile ring while serving the Royal Family”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1066171/Buckingham-Palace-butler-ran-paedophile-sex-ring-working-Royal-Family.html

  21. If social elites always enjoy impunity, why would William Beckford and Byron have been forced to live abroad because of their sexual irregularities?

  22. Not sure I’d go along with everything in this LRT piece, but have a read.

    tinyurl.com/ccyxkxw

  23. LRT=LRB

  24. Same old thing.
    Throw the public a couple of bones and get on with the business of business.

    With the WWW, however, things have changed.

    Surely these clowns don’t think they’re the only ones taking names, making lists and checking them twice?

  25. Excellent observations, Craig. Reflects exactly the conclusions formed over the last few days in my own mind. This matter is going to be quietly swept away under some carpet or buried under a patio just as seems to have happened in the French case.

  26. Is that Mr. Jimmy Saville who may – strangely enough – appear as a host along side Jeremy Thorpe in a “related video” to the Peter Cook “Judge sketch”, called “Jeremy Thorpe Questioned” http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=CZprg04Od60&NR=1. See 26 seconds in.

  27. Dick the Prick

    2 Nov, 2012 - 5:16 pm

    Absolutely bob on – who next, Sidney Cooke?

    For truly wonderful blogging, the wonderful Ms Raccoon has demolished Newsnight in 7 installments. It takes about an hour to read but briefly, the ‘scandal’ at Duncroft girls school is bollox.

    http://www.annaraccoon.com/

  28. I agree with Lysias above.

    Add Oscar Wilde and various other Victorian characters. And what about all those modernday politicians who were named, shamed, and resigned (the Tory who was caught under a bush in one of the London parks with a guardsman, the Labout minister who had the moment of madnes, etc, etc, etc…)?

    BTW @Mary : oysters are not, repeat not, fattening

  29. MJ.
    Your quote without the word ‘while’… !

  30. Lilian El-Doufani

    2 Nov, 2012 - 5:53 pm

    It was ever thus … above the old Bailey it says “Punish the wrongdoer. Protect the children of the poor”.

  31. Habbakuk

    Don’t be daft. Of course in matters of human behaviour there is no general rule to which there is not the odd exception.

  32. BTW @Mary : oysters are not, repeat not, fattening

    I did not say that they were. The writer on the Scarborough Maritime History Centre website said it.

  33. HuffPo and Guido Fawkes not displaying their newsnight scoop anymore.

  34. Trial by Blog again. So anybody who associates with a paedophile MUST be a paedophile themselves? Unless presumably they’re a victim I suppose. I’d better go and hand myself in then, I can think of two, a bloke who used to fondle apprentices and a teacher at my old school. Neither was ever arrested, neither had friends in high places to protect them. Everybody knew, it seems incredible but back then it just wasn’t taken as seriously as it is now.

    Oh and once again accusations of paedophillia are supported with allegations that so-and-so is gay. I thought the old queer-bashers’ creed that all homosexuals are kiddy-fiddlers died out in the 1970’s. Obviously not. So far all but one of Savile’s identified victims are female anyway.

  35. Kempe

    Talk about Aunt Sallys. Nobody has said all savile’s acquaintances were paedophiles, nor that there is a link between homosexuality and paedophilia,

  36. How else are we supposed to interpret this?

    “I do not accept that there were two Jimmy Saviles; that one, the open pervert, only appeared when he was with the conveniently already discredited Gadd and Starr, and the other entirely respectable Savile was the friend of Royalty, senior politicians and public servants and entirely blameless in his behaviour. It seems to me much more intrinsically probable that the mutual indulgence of shared vices was the stuff of his friendships in both groups.”

    “mutual indulgence of shared vices” if by that you’re not accusing Royalty, senior politicians etc of sharing Savile’s paedophillia what then? Looks like guilt by association to me.

    Also:-

    “Royal servant George Smith made a rape allegation against more senior royal servant Michael Fawcett, whom he also alleged to be a male sex partner of Prince Charles.

    Those two allegations have never appeared in the British media*, although they have been published abroad. When the appeared in Le Monde, that newspaper was prevented from coming into the country.”

    Irrelevant but apparently offered as supporting evidence.

    *Untrue, but never mind.

  37. The spam blocker has gone into double figures!

    The problem is not how high it goes but how low it goes.
    I am now reasonably certain that all of respectable society was at it. My ex once described a passing moment when her (very posh) godfather transformed into lover and transformed back again.
    The reason why Savile did not get exposed is not the height of the scandal but its breadth and depth. I am very glad it has all been aired. It has given me a first taste of what mourners call ‘closure’. A point at which instead of being accused of being sick, one starts to see that it was the accusers who were sick all along.

  38. English Knight

    2 Nov, 2012 - 8:44 pm

    Lord McAlpine it is, and the Tories are rocking. But the knock-out punch will have to be the naming of the Tory “handler” who got dyke Helen Bouden to set the high libel bar for a dead Savile, as an escape route for Rippon.

  39. Phil,

    Deleted that link because I don’t believe it, and accusations of that sort should not be made lightly.

  40. Craig, I think it’s you who is being a bit daft this evening. Or showing your FCO training.

    Oldest trick in the book :

    A makes an assertion
    B contradicts that assertion, setting out some facts
    Craig says oh, no, A’s assertion is correct, the facts that B brought into play are just exceptions to the general rules as set out by A.

    To which Habbakuk asks : who says?

  41. Well done, Mary, always vigilant, aren’t you.

    But a bit to touchy and self-righteous for my taste.

    BTW, how’s your garden getting on, and the hens (or was it cocks)?

  42. Nost Guido’s Newsnight link? Check my Torygraph link above, or Google “Newsnight+Overton” – the story’s still there. Maybe Guido got an earful from Cameron?

    And, amazingly, the Express and Craig are temporarily as one on this:

    “Well I can tell Mr Cameron that this claim is not sensational, anything but. In fact Tom Watson has barely scratched the surface.

    I have compiled a list of 132 ­utterly shameless establishment child abusers. These include MPs, lords and local councillors. A ­similar list for members of Her Majesty’s Constabulary exists.

    SEARCH EXPRESS COMMENT for:

    I don’t believe these lists are complete. This is not conjecture or media gossip but people, ­primarily men, who have been prosecuted for child sex offences throughout the UK.

    Many of these abusers still ­represent constituents and are “serving the public”. At the very least we should know who they are, where they are and if their public decisions are influenced by the greater good or their own twisted perversions.

    As a journalist, and in light of the Savile revelations, people have contacted me desperate to share their abuse stories.

    Some accuse powerful members of the establishment. Several household-name MPs are said to have committed acts of degradation against children as young as six.

    Yes, some of these callers may be jumping on the bandwagon but not many are, as independent ­corroboration of their stories has already confirmed.

    So let’s not be under any ­ illusion that this is only about Savile. I fear it is far from it.”

    (Sonia Poulton, 28th Oct)

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/354945/Sex-abuse-is-guilty-secret

    Hardly likely to be a complete fabrication, and it’s still up.

  43. /”Lost”

  44. @Craig

    Upon reflection I am glad you deleted it.

  45. “…aren’t you.”

    Unintelligent. Use the curly thing for questions. Thus:

    “…aren’t you?”

  46. it was telling how Brits who commented on MSM articles after Tom Watson “shocked” the Commons came up with one politician after another as possibles and, when one did a bit of searching online, they might all have been correct!

    those individuals & organisations who are GENUINELY against paedophilia – especially the predatory networks, who seem to have no trouble infiltrating public & private institutions at the highest levels – need to join hands to ensure this pandora’s box is opened at this opportune moment. who knows, maybe we can rid the system of these protected, blackmailable perpetrators of the worst kind of sexual crime.

    given the complete failure of past police investigations, and the Beeb appointing Murdoch connected persons – Nick Pollard & Dinah Rose QC – to head their internal investigations, pressure will have to come from the public & those genuinely concerned organisations for a credible, independent inquiry which goes above & beyond the Savile/BBC saga.

    there has never been a better opportunity. good luck.

  47. What exactly was divulged in the Scallywag magazine that displeased so many toffs and is linked to abuse in care homes in north Wales and elsewhere??

    http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/

  48. “Then in 1991 the story broke into the main stream when the Independent HTV and Private Eye publiciced the abuse. Between 1991 and 1993, North Wales Police mounted a huge retrospective investigation and subsequently referred some 800 allegations to the Crown Prosecutions Service. Fewer than 3% of these referrals proceeded to trial, much to the dismay and mystification of many of the alleged victims and of the adults who knew the extent and nature of the alleged abuse”

    http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/

  49. The UK Column video seems earnest, if a bit random. They propose a desparate idea to help break power pedophile rings – an amnesty.

    They quote a 2009 Independant article claiming that Jack Straw quietly introduced a bill which stops children in care from speaking out about abuse.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/justice-ministry-to-bar-parents-from-telling-their-own-stories-1622154.html

    But as of April, because of a change in legislation being introduced by Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, the media will no longer be able to identify those involved in cases such as the Websters. It will also be illegal for any children currently in care to speak out, even if they feel they are being maltreated.

    Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming agrees: “There are two issues here. One is that the press will be prevented from reporting cases like the Websters with their names and faces. The other is that, at the moment, children who are in care are entitled to speak out if they are unhappy, although it doesn’t happen very often because nobody knows how to do it. The effect of this change will be to gag them.”

    The evil of child abuse is surely one of the most galvanising of all possible causes.

    If full revelation and prosecution of child abuse is still being blocked by elements in the BBC and Law and Government now, surely the country can manage a mass protest and financial support for, surely the great majority of people all professions, who wish to eradicate this source of harm. A secretive and truely perverse source of harm, which has riddled institutions throughout history till now?

  50. This is not very good coming from a professional ex-diplomat. You know perfectly well that the Royal family were meeting JS the major charitable fund raiser. JS did a very great deal for charity. He was also apparently an extremely odd character with rather unpleasant ‘priapic’ interests. Questions do need to be asked, questions about why the Royal family were exposed to being associated with a paedophile whose activities were well known within the BBC and were also known of and complained of to the police over the course of a considerable timespan, questions about his associations with others who were not involved with charity work and did not appear to share common interests of a usual nature. Does not MI5 have role in protecting the Royal family both physically and reputationally, if not MI5, then who? Our secret service seems more interested in fighting Israel’s enemies than protecting this Realm.

  51. The specific link to the Scallywag magazine story here

    http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/people-want-to-know-who-people-were-who.html

  52. Totally agree with your piece. It’s the ones we can’t see or hear, we should be rooting out. Hidden and protected by the veil of secrecy. Lots of them, too.

  53. Forthurst, your assumptions should concure, although looking at the video from Bill Maloney, it seems that MI5 could also have an interest in controlling the Royals and their behaviour, for when it suits them and, by whatever means.

    What is disturbing that nobody in the BBC is talking of re-opening the Haute La Garenne inquiry, the timidity and public warning given by the police before they arrest and/or interview someone, is very worrying.

    What if these cases are not just similar to Marc Dutroux, what if they are connected?

  54. Murdoch’s people have known all about Savile for decades. Both myself and my partner were told over a long lunch at Murdoch’s expense sometime around 1991 by a then NoTW staff journalist, Annette Witheridge (now a contributor to the Daily Mail), all about Savile’s perversions, including the necrophilia at Leeds General Infirmary. She told us that they had a huge dossier on Savile going back decades, but that they were expressing forbidden ‘from above’ from ‘doing’ Savile. Witheridge never explained who precisely had embargoed the accumulated intelligence, but we both got the clear impression it was the proprietor himself, for reasons unknown.

    Someone should find out what the News of the World had on Savile, and why they suppressed it (as did several other papers).

  55. Typo: expressly forbidden

  56. Mind numbing Larry – Thank-you

  57. @ Habbakuk,

    That’s a really bad post you directed at Mary earlier.

    You may disagree with her-fine- but the latter tone of your post was ugly,personal and,as i read it,almost sinister in its personal dimension.

    Who the fuck do you think you are?

  58. Have you seen this?
    http://www.theworldoftruth.net/GH/TheHallettReportNo1.html

    It links the paedophile network with drug running and very, very important people in government and society.

  59. Jives,

    I think we know mind of ‘Habbakuk’ from that post to Mary. In fact I can see the flames.

  60. Necrophilia – Iraq – Palestine – Jimmy Savile – at 0:59 onwards:

    ***Really a Must See!***

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJtLsKtGCSY

    With thanks to Larry Levin.

  61. Chris Jones

    3 Nov, 2012 - 2:41 am

    Only that far Nevermind?

  62. Thanks Nevermind. Post number two genuinelly had me in stitches.

  63. no surprise:

    Newsnight claims ‘leading Tory from Thatcher years was part of paedophile ring who raped boys at Welsh children’s home’… but BBC sparks new fury by failing to NAME ‘shadowy’ politician
    •Alleged abuse victim Steven Messham told Newsnight he was raped more than a dozen times
    •Editor of the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism, Iain Overton, had claimed on Twitter that Newsnight would name him
    •The tweet prompted furious speculation online about the identity of the alleged paedophile, who is still alive
    •But Newsnight said there was ‘not enough evidence’ to reveal the identity of the man it has accused
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2226833/Jimmy-Savile-scandal-Newsnight-claims-leading-politician-Thatcher-years-centre-widespread-paedophile-ring.html

  64. I did not respond to the sillyness/smutty remark Mark. He/she is named after a prophet in the Hebrew bible!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habakkuk

  65. @ Jives : “…almost sinister in it personal dimension..”

    I see you’ve picked up some of the linguistic tricks used by the Establishment. Man up and tell me (us) how it’s “sinister”. Am I, for example, proposing to encourage a fox to get her chickens? Put weedkiller on her dahlias?

    Off you go, the floor is yours.

  66. English Knight

    Have deleted another post of yours. if you want to post stuff about “Jews, gays and dykes” there is a whole internet out there for you but you will be banned from this bit of it if you continue that stuff.

  67. Come on chaps. Let’s not rock the boat. We should all stick together…. Dimblebore Jnr. Mealy mouthed tw*t.

    Broadcaster backs BBC against Jimmy Savile ‘witch-hunt’
    Broadcaster Jonathan Dimbleby said the attacks on the BBC were “very distressing”

    Jimmy Savile scandal
    Erasing the memory of Jimmy Savile
    Child protection: The road to hypervigilance
    Savile: Alleged victims’ stories
    Mark Easton: Giving victims a voice

    There has been a “disturbing relish” in the way critics have laid into the BBC over the Jimmy Savile sex abuse scandal, Jonathan Dimbleby has said.

    The broadcaster told the Times newspaper there has been a “witch-hunt” against the corporation, which had become “horribly out of proportion”.

    “The real focus should be on what Savile did wrong,” he said.

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20190426

  68. There are names on this list – one of which is McAlpine another is Leon Brittain.

    http://www.seancopland.com/articles/sex_offenders_register_free_online_search.html

  69. I’ve done something of a round-up of sites on the Internet that name names in the growing sex scandal. You can read it here

    In the meantime – A Joke: What do children and power have in common? They are both abused by politicians.

  70. Just an afterthought @ Jives’ post, which – if I may descend to his own linguistic register – would have seriously “pissed” me off if it wasn’t so ridiculous.

    He also characterises my post about Mary as “ugly”. This board contains, on an almost daily basis, “ugly” posts about quite quite a number of people, eg, to take a recent example,the one(s) slyly hinting that Prince Charles (and other members of the Royal family, are either paedophiles or homosexual) – but I somehow seem to have missed Jives’ indignation in that regard.

    Could the answer be that “ugly” attacks – mostly unsubstantiated – on the great and the good are fine with Jives, but woe onto anyone who dares to deliver a gently kick to one of the “coterie” of this board?

    Just a question.

  71. Habbabkuk

    Jives’ status and yours are the same on this blog, so your disagreement on this point is on an equal footing. None of the commenters are “attached” to this site. That is why I have discouraged volunteer moderators from commenting overmuch, as it blurs that line (which caused ructions lately). Readers can judge your disagreement with Jives as they wish. Readers, incidentally, outnumber commenters about 100 to 1.

  72. Kempe,

    You deserve a reply because you make a very simple logical fallacy. To argue that the pattern of Savile’s behaviour is such that I cannot believe that paedophiles are only to be found among his “lower-class” friends of course does not mean every one of Savile’s acquaintances is a paedophile. That is the stupid “some sheep are black” to “all sheep are black” fallacy. You are not actually that stupid and are seeking to obfuscate for ideological reasons. Why, I know not.

  73. Rhisiart Gwilym

    3 Nov, 2012 - 10:09 am

    Yeah, Old-Testament-person: lay off Mary. Keep it civil, keep it factual.

  74. Nothing was proved against Jimmy Savile while he was alive was it? Case closed as far as I’m concerned.

  75. A certain deceased former Lib Dem MP was mentioned in Private Eye (again) this week. As usual the mainstream media have not said a peep as far as I can detect.

  76. habbakuk, the non person, is able to solve the captcha, so he’s in, well done.
    There is no need to fight, rancour or colour favours here. We do at times let rip, dearest newbie, but try not to get personal. I know how hard it is at times.

    Mary happens to be a wealth of information an asset prone to CSI, I bet she has to bath her fingers in asses milk every evening to attain their usual subtleness thereafter and she does not need such jibes.

    So leave it out.

  77. Here’s a name to conjure with –
    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/mysterious-derek-laud.html

    Ticks Tom Watson’s boxes.

  78. Thank you for that post, Craig.

    And now, how about a response – or better still, an apology – from Jives?

  79. Craig 2 Nov, 2012 – 8:50 pm
    “Phil, Deleted that link because I don’t believe it, and accusations of that sort should not be made lightly.”

    Seeing what has not been treated so is intriguing.

  80. I think Jives is still waiting for a response from you, Hab. Namely, who the XXXX do you think you are? One from me – have you anything to say on the topic? Or are you only here to troll?

    Probably best not to feed you. Ends.

  81. @Komodo

    I enjoy reading your posts, however:

    “We could maybe have some confidence in Yew Tree if we knew it was headed by a – preferably female – policeman with a strong record in combating paedophilia and a rigorous approach to dishonest policemen.”

    There are good and bad people, and this has nothing to do with gender, to suggest that a woman is needed is ridiculous. A police man/woman with the right amount of integrity will do surely. WTF?

    This whole Jimmy Saville business has my head spinning, I just can’t believe the hypocrisy of it all – the media runs the story again and again when clearly they are the ones that should be brought to account (along with all the guilty peados obviously) for hiding it. I had dinner with the editor of a foreign newspaper about ten years ago; he told me about wor Jimmy and he was outraged at being silenced about it.

    ;-)

  82. The winky face was attached to the line ‘please don’t pick on my grammar’. Not sure where that went.

  83. I’m sure I read somewhere that Winston Churchill “liked to sodomise the younger boys…”

    I do sigh a bit when you lot go on so much about Zionists, only because I think they can’t be involved in every wrongdoing in the world… buuutttt… it turns out Winston was a Zionist too!

    There’s no suggestion that the two are related, I just thought it was worth mentioning.

    Maybe it’s how “peadophillia” was looked at throughout the ages or something? Maybe it was more acceptable, or was it to do with the huge gulf between haves and have nots?

  84. @ Komodo : “who the XXXX are you” was your question. I think Craig answered that one, didn’t he?

    I shan’t bother to ask you who you are (note the absence of the XXXX)

  85. “I expect him to be arrested in the next few weeks. I am not so sure if the current government minister will be arrested for the same offence.”

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19658&hl=

  86. Komodo, you have to realise that someone who is no one, needs recognition, attention and our love….

  87. Was Savile useful to the Security Service? Is that why he was protected? Did some of his alleged activities give them the leverage (aka the potential for blackmail) they seem systemically keen to seek on politicians and other powerful figures? Certainly, for years they protected many senor figures in organised crime – eg. allegedly, Arthur Thomson Senior in Glasgow wrt Northern Ireland gun-running and more. And sex info. on politicians and others has always been most useful.

  88. Habbabkuk,

    1. No,im certainly not going to apologise to you.

    2. Your post to Mary was patronising and then simply got weirder.You said she was “touchy and too self-righteous” for your taste but offered no counter argument or salient points.After your characterisation you strangely enquired after her garden. So,from a personal slight to a personal question do you really expect to be viewed,or answered favourably? Really? To me there was something unsettling about the style and tone.

    3. Dont tell me what posts i should or shouldnt react or respond to.Or how i should be responding.I’ll make my own mind up,thank you.

    4. I refuse to take linguistic wrangling advice from someone who refers to themselves in the third person,thank you very much. Now,there’s nothing wrong per se with illeism. It doesnt necessarily imply a psycholigucal or self-reality disconnect or narcissism it just, sometimes to me, suggests a sljght strangeness of tone. Which is OK but it nevertheless leaves a certain impression when used in a dialogue.

    5. We’re a broad church in this blog. There is no clique or strategic alliances. Long time posters disagree all the time. That’s healthy and is one of the reasons this is such a popular and vibrant blog.

    6. Dont be so thin-skinned about swear words-or at least possibly pretend to be. We’re all grown ups. Some of the nastiest barbs in this blog never use swear words when a snarky supercilious tone is far more wounding.

    Finally, apologies to all other posters for dragging this post O/T. I was called on a point of order and felt it worth replying.

    Cheers.

  89. Chris Jones

    3 Nov, 2012 - 6:13 pm

    “Komodo, you have to realise that someone who is no one, needs recognition, attention and our love….”

    …yuk – rather self satisfied no

  90. Habbakuk: troll. Effortlessly passes all the tests I have set it. Do not feed.

    Just to turn away from the Savile trail for a second. Here’s Robert Wilson, MP for Reading, focusing the blame on the BBC:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19962696

    Who the hell is Robert Wilson? Oh, yes.

    http://racheleden.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/rob-wilson-jeremy-hunts-man-in-rdg.html

    Remember Hunt? Murdoch’s man in the media ministry.

    Mystic Komodo suggests; The investigation of Savile’s activities and friends will do as much damage to the BBC as can be arranged . Then it will quietly fade away.

  91. Komodo, its already happening. This massive scandal is buried under more US election news, Denis the pennis MacShane is a ‘filler’. The BBC is colluding with the go slow of the police and somebody said that the witness wanting to talk to Cameron, will be arrested within a few days time.
    Those mentioned will now keep a low profile for some time and more smothering will do the rest.
    Lost of attentive stuff coming up, Syria Iran, our boys doing their stuff, the presidential elections next door, so much more valid and applicable to us than the wretched PPC elections, all good smothering stuff.

    the BBC is guilty of covering up the Saville scandal, so is the police and those who failed to speak up for these victims, or were persuaded by whoever it may be, to shelf the inquiries and stop looking. This scandal will not go away, it will be the last straw that brakes the camels back, now people know what is going on and will judge their superiors by their cover ups and by their despicable crimes.

    what a great future for elective policies. Should we not all go out to our local hustings and badger our PPC’s with this cover up, what they would recommend the current chief constables do?

    Sorry did not want to make this too local, after all this is America, were the first two items on the news is the presidential erections, and then an item on how our Olympic rowers are already looking forward and preparing for Rio, what else could possibly matter in this country…
    There is a concerted campaign by the BBC’s top public faces to smother this, tell us 100 times to walk on, nothing to see here.

    Well, shit M. Dimbleby, I’m welded to the ground! so you best tell us what you know and what you’ve heard. We all know your questions are not random and that your programme is made up, prepared and choreographed, just as you are.

  92. Chris Jones

    3 Nov, 2012 - 9:40 pm

    Of course there is always the very high possibility that the BBC,as well as being seemingly rotten and corrupted, is being deliberately destroyed from within – a cruel double blow ey?

  93. Marcus –
    Independent 3 Nov:

    Sir Winston Churchill: Zionist hero
    Jews hold strong views about the man honoured by a new statue in Jerusalem, says Catrina Stewart
    “As a passionate Zionist all his life and a philo-semite, Churchill has been under-recognised,” says Anthony Rosenfelder, a trustee of the Jerusalem Foundation, which is behind the project to commemorate the British leader. He “combined a historical understanding of the Jewish people and what the promised land meant for Jews … with realpolitik”.
    It is perhaps ironic that a statue of Churchill should stand just yards away from the King David Hotel, scene of a deadly Jewish terror attack on British military headquarters in 1946 that was to hasten the demise of mandate rule in Palestine…
    Newly declassified MI5 papers reveal that in 1944, the British feared that the Stern Gang, a Jewish terrorist group determined to oust the British from Palestine, was plotting to kill Churchill, as well as the unpopular politician Ernest Bevin.
    In the end, it was not Churchill who died, but his close friend Lord Moyne, who was assassinated by the Stern Gang in Cairo in November 1944. Mr Segev writes that the bloody act “lost the Zionists one of their most important supporters, Winston Churchill”.
    In an address to the House of Commons, Churchill made clear the depth of his dismay: “If our dreams for Zionism are to end in the smoke of assassins’ pistols and our labours for its future to produce only a new set of gangsters worthy of Nazi Germany, many like myself will have to reconsider the position we have maintained so consistently and so long in the past.”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sir-winston-churchill-zionist-hero-8277918.html

  94. Global Elite Pedophile Ring – 10-26-2012 – Top Dutch Official Facing Child Rape Allegations
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDVyQe_hJ4k&feature=player_embedded

    Now screen legend Leonard Rossiter is accused of performing a sex act while watching three BBC staff try to rape 18-year-old TV extra
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227171/Screen-legend-Leonard-Rossiter-accused-performing-sex-act-BBC-staff-tried-rape-18-year-old-TV-extra.html

  95. @ Jives (6.10pm). That screed must have been exhausting to write. But perhaps less exhausting than to read.

    You wrote (I shall retain your original text) “Dont tell me what posts i should or shouldnt react or respond to. Or how i should be responding”.

    I wouldn’t dream of doing so, dear. I merely note your deafening silence in the face of “ugly” suggestions about Prince Charles (to take just one example) whereas you fall over yourself in your haste to attack me for an “ugly” post regarding Mary.

    You are certainly gutless. Are you shameless as well?

  96. Kabbabkuk,

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzz…troll…youve been sussed by many more than me already.

    Back on topic all.Far more important.

    We will all know you by your slavish disruptive ignorance,dear.

  97. Reading about dear old Leonards supposed… offence , i was again wondering what in curses has been going on.

    I think we are trying to get to grips with the most torrid part of the ‘oldest industry’ – the sex industry. An industry ever secretive and criminalised, which trades in the most urgent and passionate and unreasoned of instincts. An industry which the hedonistic rich have always arranged as much as the nihilistic poor.

    Sex is always beyond rationality, even done clinically it is absurd -to think there is a default, normal way to it. The normal ways are as organic and as contrived as the theatric, athletic, casual, sloppy or the extra-meaningful and every other way. Sexual behaviour is a kaleidoscope of expression, where roles are played knowingly, half knowingly and blindly. It is often bigger than us. It will often drive people to fault, crazy mistakes, crimes of passion, as it can drive people to live together and create life too.

    But since it has its dangerous, harmful possibilities, never fully controlled by reason – The criminalisation of its industry leads to this corruption in high places where it is as irrepressible as it is anywhere. That industry might mostly consist of consenting, role playing adults, but they all must hide from prosecution. That irrepressible criminal society exists already, has done for a long time, with them all hiding in corridors of power as much as in slums.

    Within that society is hiding the worst of its colours, the child users, and the bullies of the truely vulnerable which criminalistion happens to increase -peoples vulnerability.

    I dont want to partake in prostitution myself. But i think the general criminalistion is part of the situation which has created a supersecretive harbour for the sickest and most harmful permutations of sexual activity.

    If our populations newly interknit awareness of the unanimously intolerable, terrible harm of sexual abuse can manage to erradicate it – not only would countless children and people be relieved of their horrors, the corruption of war and hunger will have its connections caught and be isolated too.

    We need to get behind people/organisations who can really act on this.

  98. is tom watson playing tavistock games that is the question.
    asking questions about kid fiddlers under thatchers reign.
    sent his blog an email but he does not want to put it up.

    “I don’t think anyone questions, Mr. watson, that you’re working hard. Our question is who you’re working for?
the fact you are chasing 1980s shadows is proof enough for me of your intentions.
mr watson this year some of your work mates have raped children.
why is the d notice being used to cover the tracks of paedos today and under blair.
everything you are saying at the moment is smoke and mirrors..

    PRESIDENT: You think, you think we want to, want to go this route now? And the–let it hang out, so to speak?
    DEAN: Well, it’s, it isn’t really that–
    HALDEMAN: It’s a limited hang out.
    DEAN: It’s a limited hang out.
    EHRLICHMAN: It’s a modified limited hang out.
    PRESIDENT: Well, it’s only the questions of the thing hanging out publicly or privately.

  99. @ Habbabkuk,

    Sorry darling,i meant to post this on on the previous riff but it’s worth repeating.

    You were suspect for a while.You failed,not just Komodo’s basic troll test,but alot of ours.And that’s OK,dear.

    You dont think for a moment I really meant that post at 6.03 pm did you?Perish the thought.’Twas merely a gambit to test your reactions and bona fides.You failed,predictably enough.You bit,so to speak.

    You’re not very good at this trolling,dear,are you? Now run along to your shift supervisor for your next… strategy.

    BTW,dear,this is the arse end of this thread.I’ve got as long as it takes to entertain your guff.As long as you’re here as a sucker troll it means you’re not on the other posts sullying them.

    We,also,here,have tactics to find the silly ones out.

    And you fell for it.Sucker.

    Night night poppet.;.)

  100. low hanging strange fruit of the i love the 70s.
    that is the frame.
    weird stuff happened in the i heart the 70s.
    today all kids are safe always protected when in danger they use mobile phones to call mom and dad yes no.
    paedo rings in westminster,in the law courts and in the police well that sounds like a bad reject script for a 1980s channel 4 series.
    thank god we live in much more caring times i say.
    tony blair and david cameron have so much empathy and humanity that they would do everything possible to protect the children.
    the monsters gary glitter and freddy starr are spielberg like dinosaurs reanimated from another century the filthy dirty 70s.
    they need to be handed over to peter mandelson and put away for life in an nspcc childline nonce facility.

  101. Thanks Oddie.

    On a different note: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll etc

    That troll test must be pretty cleverly worked out as this whole site could be a troll security operation, surely? Since no one ever responds to what I write (apart from Oddie just now) I’ll clear this up for you – I don’t think the illuminati, lizard people etc are involved.

  102. Can it get any worse for the BBC? Tax dodging for Savile exposed now.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/356006/Rolls-Royces-Jimmy-Savile-abused-children-in-were-BBC-gifts-

  103. Hi Marcus dont feel unappreciated, i41 mostly agree with your comments and follow them rather than replying.

    btw I think that quote about Winston Churchill is electrically charged but in all likelyhood completely made up. There is a represssed school report of his spoken of, but i could find no indications of its actual existence anywhere, never mind its authenticity.

    Im looking at Tom Watson hopefuly now. This issue could be as big as stopping War.
    http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/10-days-that-shook-my-world#comments

  104. @Marcus, Thatcrab

    I recall reading a similar thing about churchill. I seem to recall that it refered to his tastes as a younger man – possibly about chasing other pupils. Although I cannot recall where I do seem to recall it wasn’t impressively sourced and I wasn’t interested enough to look further.

  105. I like the sound of Mr Towler, Children’s Commissioner for Wales, who backs a new inquiry in Wales.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20196086

    Also Mr Peter Garsden from the Assocation of Child Abuse Lawyers who is on the case. Not just celebrities involved, he said. He is obviously profiting from the fees but he appears to care deeply. He has been speaking on BBC News.
    {http://abuselaw.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/public-enquiry-for-north-west-abuse.html?spref=tw}

  106. We know about Tom Driberg. Isn’t this an odd remark? As if pederasty has good repute?

    ‘He is the man who brought pederasty into disrepute.’ (Referring to Tom Driberg)

    http://www.tensionnot.com/jokes/one_liner_jokes/winston_churchill_funny_quotes

  107. The minimum of info.

    http://www.eib.org/infocentre/events/all/board-of-governors-2012.htm

    Check Ref No 1 on the Wikipedia page!
    {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Investment_Bank}

    How about the logo? Did they get a chimpanzee with a paint brush and two tins of paint to do it?

  108. Sorry the above should have been on the EU thread.

  109. Mary i commend your rare intention to find the relevant thread at least :)

    Thankyou for growing the list of good guys to support for this one with Mr Towler and Peter Garsden.

    Here is another one from the many chinese churchill whispers: “There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true.”
    -For all his various drunk and inspired quips, anything could be made of the character. I just dont know, it is a bit long ago to make sense of in 2012. Rather mythologoical.

  110. Jives : four sails to the wind at 2am last night? Hope you’re OK again this evening.

  111. This pdf was put up here the other day. It takes some time to read through and there are also videos of the TV programmes made about the case which I have not watched.

    It is a terrible litany about a 14 year old daughter who was being sexually abused by a group of men and who was taken away from her home and her concerned parents by the state social services and the legal system there after the tried to have the men charged.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/90768539/Our_experiences_on_discovering_our_daughter_was_victim_of_sexual_crimes_in_NZ.pdf

    I have every sympathy for the parents. Their son committed suicide. Two of the abusers who were employed by the NZ version of St John’s Ambulance have received medals from the Governor General. He is also the titular head of St John which sounds to be both creepy and masonic. He is referred to as the Prior and the HQ is a Priory!
    {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John_New_Zealand}

    ‘St John releases an honours list annually, sanctioned by the Queen, with honours awarded on merit to candidates who stand out from their peers. The 2011 Honours will be presented by the governor-general, who is the head of St John in New Zealand, at two investiture ceremonies in 2012.’

    It is both a shocking and very sad story as there has been no contact between the daughter, who is now adult, and her parents, since she was taken away from them. They eventually decided to leave NZ and are now in the UK.
    Background – investigatemagazine.co.nz/Investigate/?p=2273

  112. thatcrab
    do not bother with tom watson.
    he is captured they all are amazing what control you can have when you have video,audio and foto.
    tom watson needs to be called out as a scum bag.
    many people have been sending him information about rape in the last 5 years not in the ffing 1980s he has done nothing.
    a fat windbag distraction merchant that only allows lovely positive words about himself on his pox of a blog.
    the rise of the blog in part was a reaction against the lies and spin of the controlled msm.
    and all along they where just the same bullshit smoke and mirrors.

    PRESIDENT: You think, you think we want to, want to go this route now? And the–let it hang out, so to speak?
    DEAN: Well, it’s, it isn’t really that–
    HALDEMAN: It’s a limited hang out.
    DEAN: It’s a limited hang out.
    EHRLICHMAN: It’s a modified limited hang out.
    PRESIDENT: Well, it’s only the questions of the thing hanging out publicly or privately.

  113. @ Habbabkuk,

    ‘Fraid not guvnor.At1.30 am,last night,id just finished 14 hours in A and E.

    Sorry to disappoint you.

  114. @ Jives. Are we supposed to applaud? Judging from your tone yesterday, I’m glad I wasn’t one of your ‘customers’, I might have been in mortal danger. Hope you weren’t working on your own!
    Anyway, best if, next time, you went home and had some sleep and left the blog for the next day.
    Cheeers, laddy.

  115. Some background on the late Cyril Smith MP, see also Private Eye this week.

    http://griffinwatch-nwn.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/more-on-establishment-paedophile.html

    Never mind N. Wales…or, rather, mind it too, but isn’t Rochdale beginning to look like something of a hotspot?

  116. Oh, and Griffinwatch? I know. It carries the full original RAP article – no other reason. You don’t have to read the comments.

  117. Jives – as good an excuse ive ever read for a spot of late night troll feeding, but you see how it is only egging for more ^^

  118. @ Thatcrab.

    Lol…indeed. Im happy to out-troll the troll though.Its not going very well for our dear Habbabkuk on this mission is it?

    “laddy”?? LOL

  119. Apologies for things being a bit charged, that’s me I’m afraid.

  120. Ive found Habbio endearingly irrelevant, but hes yet to savage me, though i’ve just put a particularly vulnerable comment in the other thread.
    Marcus no apologies – id already wondered about that quote meself.

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  122. “do not bother with tom watson. … many people have been sending him information about rape in the last 5 years not in the ffing 1980s he has done nothing.”

    He appears sincere to me and his latest actions appear to be very significant. To all intents and purposes it looks like he is uniquely blowing a whistle at the problem and deserves support. He should not be dismissed and denounced for not being confident to act on other material and directions – which is doubtless convincing and central to others.
    The many views of the situation are overwhelming and confusing, to dispassionate solution seeking observers – nevermind someone working in the furnace.

    Some people just accept accept every appearance of error and corruption. But he may well be just choosing his most hopeful time and place to attack the situation which is beyond most anyones full understanding. If he deserves to be denounced as a fraud, that accusation requires more than a casual rejection of his performance.

    http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/
    Letter to David Cameron regarding Child Sex Abuse Investigation – November 5th 2012
    >My advice to you as Prime Minister – and from one father to another – is that you need to order a special police investigation, outside the affected forces, with proper resources, to review all relevant police files and those of the intelligence services. If they have documents suggesting politicians in the Commons and Lords or others in positions of power were involved in child abuse then they should make them available to a new inquiry team.
    >The forces so far known of be affected (Met, Surrey, West and South Yorkshire, West Mercia, Dorset, Kent, Essex, North Wales, Suffolk and Sussex) need to have their archives systematically searched for intelligence from witnesses/victims making claims which were not investigated; investigations which were closed down, and so on.

  123. KingofWelshNoir

    6 Nov, 2012 - 5:08 pm

    @Thatcrab

    I totally agree mate. It looks like Tom Watson is doing a very brave thing, forcing into the public domain this issue which would otherwise remain hidden from view. All we need now is for the media to find its balls and ask what happened to the inquiry into Haut de la Garenne.

  124. I also agree with Thatcrab regarding Tom Watson.

    Tony Roma- style comments, if followed, would lead to a situation where nobody, but nobody would be believed to be acting in an honest and honorable manner, where nobody could be trusted to be acting from moral principle and a desire for the common good – in other words, a world of horror and paranoia.

    I believe there are actually some honest people out there.

  125. At this stage in my life i am beyond horrified and paranoid about what goes on in politics and finance. But there through my own frailty and ignorance but for the grace.. go I. It is amazing what most people will accept for the sake of their personal world. I think only rarely do the stars and characters align for people to do better than expected. Expectations need to evolve.

    Craig broke expectations and recklessly endangered everything dear to him for the sake of tortured people who almost everyone else would and did put out of their minds for their own security. And he was almost killed and had to build a new life.
    He is a very rare kind of charitable courageous productive geezer whom i mostly look up to from a lowly perch.

    I just pay attention and hold onto a minimum of hope and humility for peoples efforts. Awareness of many unbelieveable but credible things brought to my attention on this particular blog does disturb my productivity and mood sometimes, but i think it is evolutionary.

    I do appreciate Tony Roma linking the UK Column reports, which are ever disturbing but seem very sincere and diligent. They may or may not be frustrated and critical of Tom and all politicians performance, that would be their right from their own courageous labours.

  126. tom watson is a shill and this site has plenty of gchq or lower grade paid hands.
    mr watsion has had plenty of information from kidnap and rape in the last 5 years not the 80s.
    he is not brave he is cover and distraction.
    i am not talking about groundless vague stories.
    i am talking about the rendition of children in and out of this country for fuck parties get it.
    using the private jets of million and billion dollar known people.
    not talking about him naming names just asking simple questions about connections between people running kids charities and friendships with known paedo’s.
    until watson talks about the 50 plus d notice cover up’s of operation ore then he is controlled puppet and as a result aiding and abetting child rapists.
    a 100 year gag order to protect westminster men that have fucked kids that is what we are taliking about.
    bravery no bravery just bluster and bullshit

  127. Habbabkuk what a crock
    what a cracker

    I believe there are actually some honest people out there you say

    no just rapists,killers,victims the blackmailed the controlled.
    the what is innit for me innit types
    you get on in westminster once they have the foto,video and audio.
    once the bestial crimes have been recorded to tape and mpeg4.
    then because you are a member of the other secret society clubs you really make it.
    but ask yourself which ones have no skeletons in cupboards.

    mr murdoch has a whole office dedicated to recording and snooping in new york.
    what power one can wield when you have a minister captured on sd or even hd in monstrous flickering crimes.
    the power to sign a contract help start a war.
    maybe it is upside down maybe you can only make it in government if you are a filthy degenerate.

  128. If that be the case Tony what really would be the use of ranting about it in forum. There is no point looking at the situation and talking about it anymore after you have determined it 100% fucked up. You may as well stop looking then, stop cursing and see if you can make the best of your first world position without joining in.

    Another thing about this life is, horrific things, shameful things, every kind of thing is going on and people are hurting and wasting each other everywhere. But even when we stop it, terrible accidents and illnesses and deaths will still occur – and everyone weakens and dies in the end!! Life is a nightmare in this mature respect, you cant eradicate the turmoil altogether. We can only try to live well and true. Terrible things are happening, and wonderful things too. Dont be jaded Tony find your balance.

  129. thatcrab yours comment above stinks of mason.
    live and let live : )
    clearly something can be done how about hurting the westminster freaks that rape kids or how about the police doing any kind of job apart from arresting spent glitter singers or a half dead so called starr comic.
    clearly you are a believer in the theory of child rape being a weird sport of the 1970s.
    thank god we live in such yogic clean living post modern times,thank god are kids are safe : )

    thatcrab this blog is interesting but it is also full of vauxhall scum being paid a wage
    ok maybe not actually in vauxhall or pimlico like the man in a bag gareth maybe some data place near slough.
    cursing you say clearly you are from the esther rancid harriet harlot harmen school of men cannot help themselves they have to rape kids let’s change the law to help um.

    you are another hack sack or highly medicated..
    i believe in the innocence of children and any adult that sexually tampers with that innocence should be hurt in a slow methodical way.
    find your balance tony you say thatcrab.
    if you cannot beat um join um.
    maybe i will enjoy it.
    i mean sodomy has not done tony blair or mandy any harm seems to be your position.
    thatcrab stick with your bestial ying
    and i will stick to my angry yang
    but your friends have to understand they will pay for child crimes
    bu hook or crook

    thatcrab

    i love the way you framed this savile as sex rather than the rape and sodomy 8 yeear old boys.
    the sexual abuse of the unconscious and the sexual abuse of the dead.
    no wonder we live on such a sick island
    you are rotten

    I think we are trying to get to grips with the most torrid part of the ‘oldest industry’ – the sex industry. An industry ever secretive and criminalised, which trades in the most urgent and passionate and unreasoned of instincts. An industry which the hedonistic rich have always arranged as much as the nihilistic poor.

  130. Your twisting and throwing dirt everywhere Tony. Better luck to you anyway.

  131. thatcrab
    the d notice and operatione ore.

    but i am sure it is all lies i mean the great and the good are called that for a reason yes….

    http://www.tpuc.org/node/34

  132. I am not at all sure that is all lies Tony, and i haven’t been alluding such. I just don’t know what of it is true – i could be mostly confused blanks, and they are no good for loading up with, i imagine. I cant source any of it except to permutations of the same in blogs and discussions. To believe it fully without a familiar source would involve a much bigger leap of faith than required to assess Tom Watson’s sincerity. In my view he has requested the strongest kind of enquiry possible right in this direction in parliament. What do want him to read out an underground webpage? Who are you saying the public should support to tackle this issue, someone who makes alienating in-jokes about lizards?

  133. lizard talk thats the man thatcrap
    taliking of lizards ikes web shite on savile has a perfect containment strategy in action whoever is running that is doing sterling hoovering work info deletions for queen and country.
    thatcrab if a minister is good friends with a convicted child rapist if the head of child protection charities are having holidays abroad and flying on private jets with convicted child rapists is that a good thing.
    what the fuck has that moral maze got to do with lizards.
    if you are not a paid hack find someone in the media and ask them about d.a notices.
    why has operation ore a paedo ring case got so many 100 year d notices attached to it.
    i ask you what has raping children got to do with the defence of the realm.

    A DA-Notice or Defence Advisory Notice (called a Defence Notice or D-Notice until 1993) is an official request to news editors not to publish or broadcast items on specified subjects for reasons of national security. The system is still in use in the United Kingdom.
    i have an idea leave a message on watsons blog ask him a question if d notices should be used to protect child rapists and see if he allows it up after moderation : )
    try a benign question tom great work i am your no1 fan tom are you happy the way d notices are handed out and sometimes used to protect rapists.
    or tom d notices anything a yogic minded friend of the earth islington type needs to worry about?
    or just mad talk from the lizard squad.
    why not
    tom d notice pray tell?

  134. I probably shouldnt have mentioned lizards sorry.
    I dont know there are as many d notices and people involved in this as you perceive from eg. the last article linked , i need a more familiarisable source to relate claims. It is quite possible Tom finds it impractical to go after d-notices in parliament, and very likely he does not understand or accept or have a hells chance in targeting masonic nexus.

    But something unusually bad and secretive about all this was declared here, by a man with special contacts in the government and state who has brought many secret corruptions to light over the years, writes about this situation “I am sure there is a great deal more to know than Glitter and Starr. I fear we shall never be permitted to know it.

  135. It’s difficult to find experienced people about this subject, however, you seem like you know what you’re talking about!
    Thanks

  136. It’s a common misconception that the Government can simply slap a D/DA Notice on anything they want and that it effectively brings about a news blackout on pain of death. In reality DA Notices are agreed by the DA Notice Committee which largely consists of representatives from the media, are only applicable to defence matters and are advisory. Any attempt to use one to cover up for ministers would be rejected and widely ignored it if wasn’t. Editors always have the Public Interest defence at their disposal, even when breaking the law.

    http://www.dnotice.org.uk/committee.htm

  137. @ All,

    It seems that this whole sordid paedophile issue runs very far and high up the British establishment ladder:-

    http://2012indyinfo.com/2012/11/04/the-paedophile-ring-that-encircles-british-politics-by-s-c-name-protected-and-giovanni-di-stefano-read-more-online-publishing-company-limited/

  138. Courtenay, that torrent of suspects was brought to your attention by “Laura”

    About Laura
    I am a starseed, possibly from the Pleiadies or Andromeda. I am on this journey since age 3, so.. for 35 years.. and i am doing spiritual group work for over 15 years also. I enjoy poetry, music, nature, animals, joking, having fun, listening to spirit. I have connected with many star beings, from various worlds, humanoid or not. Connections happen while awake or in dream like state. Shall we expand our consciousness together.

  139. that’s my boy kempe keep up the contaiment..
    kempe log onto your pox low grade government computer and type in operation ore.
    answer the simple question numbnuts.
    what has a kid rape investigation case got to do with the defence of the realm d notice.
    100 a hundred year silence of naming of names in child rape cases.
    not very james bond not very smiley for queen and cuntry heroic is it all rather rotten.
    kempe name me a case of an editor going against a d notice.
    you are a low grade tool kempe but everyone has to make a living even the ss got a wage packet
    also why a d notice on dando and gareth williams help the forum out old man
    spill the intel old bean

  140. quote.
    “I am sure there is a great deal more to know than Glitter and Starr. I fear we shall never be permitted to know it.“

    that is my boy keep the frame in the i love the 70s.
    we cannot have the sheeple believing that child rape happens today can we.
    how about glitter and starr are nothing.
    to me they do not look mason enough but if they are then the police know how to look after friends.
    the problem is the the super rich and the westminster movers and shakers that can and do rape now and laugh at how contained everything is.
    when does a charity become a corporation when it is called the nspcc.
    when does it start to have a pr problem.
    when it has a leader called mandy who says hello boy’s come fly me.

  141. The wild allegations being thrown around here only serve to undermine what appear to be very real accusations of a paedophile ring that include the powerful.

    Some of these wild accusations are probably born out of a frustration at the tamed corporate media and others may be part of a propaganda campaign to further fog the reality. But they all play into the hands of those who want to suggest this is a witch hunt against gays.

    @Courtenay Barnett
    Didn’t you claim to be a lawyer a few days ago? Which makes your link even more surprising.

  142. Roma, thank you fo your kind considered reply to my post.

    As you point out there are no grounds for placing a D/DA Notice on Operation Ore which is why it never happened. Anyone who tells you otherwise is, I think, pulling your leg. If it had happened numerous editors, especially the Red Top Paedo Hunters, would’ve taken great delight in ignoring it.

  143. kempe what a scumbag shill you are : )
    next you will be saying your masonic lodge is just a supper club for lovers of democracy.
    so give me a kempe statement.
    did tony blair issue any d.a notices covering operation ore are you saying 0.
    red top paedo hunters are doing a good job gary glitter and freddie starr.
    i here you can get a better hour rate in kfc chicken shack but i suppose you prefer sitting on your fat smug arse

  144. Sorry to disappoint but I was turned down by the Masons; I couldn’t master the silly handshake.

  145. QUOTE
    Sorry to disappoint but I was turned down by the Masons; I couldn’t master the silly handshake.

    but what of the perks.
    the drugging and raping of unconscious kids from care homes.
    the energy harvesting of youth not turn you on
    the lords and ladies cannot do it alone they need dumb muscle for the lifting.
    and getting rid of the evidence.

  146. Never saw any of that. You must have made it further up the Masonsic league than I.

  147. TonyRoma, do shut up, you stupid little man.

  148. According to today’s Guardian, Lord McAlpine “now lives in
    Italy”.

    Bit disappointing, actually, as you’d have expected one of the architects of Thatcherism to lay his old bones to rest in the country he helped create. But there you are….

    Does anyone happen to know (1) WHEN he moved to Italy and (2) the given reason(s) ?

  149. Habbabkuk
    Habbabkuk
    wants a child like savile to

    another masonic child wrangler of zion.
    go kiss the feet of your master netanyahooli

  150. what a sick world
    a boy who was raped as a child and names nobody on tv has to say sorry to someone he never named on bbc tv.
    no mention of why the lord in question was named in an original police file or interviewed as part of the Waterhouse Inquiry.
    or why a lord would pay a brief to gather information about the inquiry.
    why should a victim of sodomy have to say sorry and be threatened.
    if lord mcalpine is innocent he4 needs to sue the police and the members of the waterhouse enquiry and anyone else connected with the investigation.
    but no we see attack the victim as a form of defence.
    nobody is talking about rape in care homes today,kidnap and death rendition of children in and out of the country.
    the bbc as a branch of m15.
    just shill scofields pm stunts,bbc bozos resigning and rape victim saying sorry.
    good work.
    80 years of tavistock techniques are doing satan’s work and doing it well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS7l6i4w11U&feature=fvst

  151. @ Phil,

    ” @Courtenay Barnett
    Didn’t you claim to be a lawyer a few days ago? Which makes your link even more surprising.:

    Tell me what you need to know and I will respond.

  152. AN APPY POLLY LOGGY
    AN APOLOGY
    A MEA CULPA
    A SINCERE APOLOGY WITH REMORSE REGRET AND HUMBLE MASTER AND SERVENT OBEDIENCE.

    I AM SORRY I REALLY AM.
    LAST WEEK I DID AN INTERVIEW WITH THE PRESS.
    IT WAS AGREED THAT I WOULD NOT NAME NAMES TO PROTECT THE REPUTATIONS OF IMPORTANT LORDS AND LADIES.
    I DID NOT NAME NAMES BECAUSE OF THE LIBEL LAWS AND THE SLIM CHANCE OF ANY CHILD RAPE CASE COMING TO COURT.
    SO I DID NOT NAME NAMES.
    THE BBC ALSO AGREED TO NOT NAME NAMES AND THEY DID NOT.

    I AM CONFUSED I DID NOT REALISE THAT BY NOT NAMING NAMES.
    I DID NOT UNDERSTAND BY NOT NAMING THE NAME THAT I DID NOT NAME, I WOULD THEN BE OPEN TO THREAT AND PROSECUTION AND MEDIA ABUSE BECAUSE OF MY CALLOUS EVIL ACT OF NOT NAMING NAMES.
    MYSELF AND THE BBC ARE CLOSER TO ARE OWN DESTRUCTION THAN YOU CAN KNOW.
    I AM SORRY THE BBC IS SORRY,MR WATSON AND PHILLIP SCOFIELD IS SORRY.
    NONE OF US WANTED TO HURT AND DESTROY THE HAPPY FAMILIES AND THE REPUTATIONS OF ARE SUPERORS IT WAS ARE IGNORANCE THAT WAS AT FAULT.
    WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF NOT NAMING NAMES.
    THE MERE SUGGESTION THAT A SECRET CABAL OF RICH MEN MOVE CHILDREN AROUND IN AND OUT OF THE COUNTRY LIKE CATTLE IS PURE IKEIAN FORUM CONSPIRACY TITTLE TATTLE.
    AS A VICTIM OF SODOMY I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY WISH THAT THE INTERNET BE CONTROLLED AND SHUT DOWN IN PLACES TO PROTECT THE LORDS AND SENSITIVE LADIES OF OLDE ENGERLUND.
    CHILDREN MAKE UP STORIES THAT IS WHY WE NEED THEM IN NSPCC CHILDLINE HOMES.
    ONCE WITHIN THEY CAN MAKE AS MUCH NOISE AND TELL AS MANY STORIES AS THEY WANT, AS THEY WILL NOT BE SEEN OR HEARD.
    THANK GOD WE ARE NOW BACK ON TRACK.
    PRAISE BE THE STATUS QUO
    THANK YOU MR BLAIR AND PRIME MINISTER CAM MORON
    GOD BLESS THE QUEEN.

  153. Interesting – Lifting the Veil

  154. Letter to Tom Watson from Rob Wilson a close friend but no funny stuff honest of jeremy mr stamina hunt..

    seems like they want watson to shut up or else

    Quote:
    9th November 2012
    Dear Tom,

    Over recent days we have all been shocked by revelations about child abuse, from Jimmy Savile, to care homes in North Wales and beyond.

    It is very clear that these allegations are of the utmost seriousness and must be fully and independently investigated – no matter who may be involved. I agree with you that it was right a fresh police inquiry into allegations regarding the North Wales care home be launched.

    MPs can and do play a vital role in bringing such matters to public attention. However, as a result of your repeated and sensationalist public claims of the involvement in abuse of ‘a senior aide of a former Prime Minister’, ‘a former cabinet minister’, and alleged abuse taking place in ‘Downing Street’, several people who vigorously protest their innocence have been widely named on the internet as paedophiles. I am sure you understand the effect on their lives of such allegations, if untrue. Some of them have been besieged by the media, causing distress to their families and neighbours.

    As I am sure you agree, unfounded allegations could lead to innocent lives being damaged – or even destroyed. So, in the interests of the innocent, I am asking you to exercise caution and be sure that you can fully substantiate allegations yourself before making them in public. I fully respect your motives, but it is important that you do not add to unsubstantiated rumours by publicly repeating them.

    Your concerns are in the public domain and there are now two independent inquiries. Given that you have stated that investigations are ‘a job for the police’, I am asking you to take any additional information of any wrongdoing straight to the police as a matter of urgency. They are best placed to get the truth and avoid any perception of a cover-up.

    I trust that you and otherss will appreciate that this is now the correct course of action to uncover any perpetrators of truly awful crimes.

    I am placing this letter in the public domain.

    Yours ever,

    Rob Wilson MP
    http://cdn2.spectator.co.uk/files/20…n-09-11-12.pdf

    Tom Watsons reply to Rob Wilson;

    Quote:
    11th November 2012

    Dear Rob,

    Thank you for your recent letter which I read online yesterday.

    I appreciate your concern for the heat to be taken out of the public debate around this issue but as you have raised this with me publicly, I feel duty bound to explain that which I had wished to remain private.

    Your central point is that any allegations I receive should go to the police. I am not sure why you have assumed that this is not happening. You are wrong, in any case.

    It remains the case that the documents seized in the investigation into paedophile Peter Righton provide clear intelligence suggesting a child abuse ring that links to a former aide of a Prime Minister. In fact this was my sole focus when the matter was raised with the PM in the House. My concern was not the shortcomings of the previous inquiry into North Wales and at the time I was not aware of any allegations made about politicians relating to North Wales.

    This is also why I believe the terms of reference for the inquiry announced by the Home Secretary are inadequate and at some point in the future will have to be broadened, as I told the Home Secretary on Tuesday.

    As you know, I have some history with the Metropolitan police. We now know that during the hacking scandal, the organisation was sitting on a vast amount of intelligence that provided clear evidential leads suggesting much wider criminal wrongdoing.

    In raising the matter with the PM I was seeking to ensure that the new team at the Met were aware that there could be clear intelligence held by them that would warrant a second look in this case too. I believe this is now happening.

    Since raising the issue with the PM, a number of other allegations have been made of which I have made the police aware.

    My concern is that the institutions that are there to protect vulnerable children may have historically failed. I do not know why this is the case but seek to understand it. This will take time and I would welcome your ideas as to how child protection policy can be improved in years to come.

    The former child protection specialist who raised his concerns with me did so because after the Murdoch scandal, he felt I was prepared to speak out on a perceived injustice and see it through to the end – no matter where the evidence leads and whoever it affects and regardless of political persuasion. I should point out to you that my few public statements regarding an alleged child abuse ring have taken pains not to identify the political affinity of the suspected perpetrators. Nor have I at any point, publicly identified the time period to which the allegations apply. This is not a fit subject for point scoring.

    I hope you now understand that I am fully co-operating with the police and that I will not let this matter drop regardless of what pressure is bought to bear by those that seek to undermine legitimate inquiry.
    http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/…-rob-wilson-mp

  155. let’s talk about thomas.
    let’s not talk about his friend george.
    why co0s one man is dead the other is super connected.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQyFjDOix0&list=UUuGzWrepV8iN-roTno9yghw&index=9&feature=plcp

  156. doug scorgie

    12 Nov, 2012 - 1:29 pm

    The British security services use drug dealers, prostitutes, paedophiles and all sorts of underworld scumbags as intelligence assets. The police do the same but it is usually (but not always) in a genuine attempt to catch Mr big i.e. “using a sprat to catch a mackerel.”

    The security services however are not interested in bringing criminals to justice, rather they use them to gain intelligence on individuals of interest, especially those in positions of power; senior police officers, judges; MPs; ministers; journalists; Whitehall officials; Unions; peace protesters etc.

    Information is power and compromising information has even more power and can be used to control any silly MP who may want an ethical foreign policy or justice for Palestinians or to tax the rich. It can also be used to control union leaders or high profile political activists.

    “Tasty” information that is used against these people include: adultery; homosexuality; sexual predation allegations; paedophilia; downloading child pornography; financial crimes and any other character-destroying information; whether true or not.

    This is how our elected parliament and the separation of powers, needed in any democracy, are undermined. They are undermined by an unelected super-elite comprising past and present members of the military; the police; the House of Lords; Whitehall; ex-Prime Ministers; the super-rich and of course, the Royal Family. The glue that holds this amalgam together is MI5 and MI6 with a bit of help from the Special Branch. None of these people have any democratic legitimacy.

    Jimmy Savile was able to get close to anybody and everybody in the political hierarchy and the Royal family over the last fifty years. He wasn’t a man of great charm or charisma so how did he manage that, now then, now then?

    The purpose of the special branch and the security services is to protect the state at all costs and by all means. True democracy; separation of powers and transparency in government are regarded as a threat by this unelected and unaccountable super-elite.

    Jimmy Savile must have been one of their most prized assets. At least fifty years of sexual offences against children and no proper investigations or criminal charges brought against him. This indicates to me that he was being protected by those on high and, perhaps in reward, he was allowed to continue abusing children with a guarantee of immunity as he worked to lure other people in positions of power into a trap, constructed by the security services, for the purposes of blackmail to control parliament.

    Prince Charles sent a box of cigars and gold cufflinks to Jimmy Savile in 2006 with a note saying “Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country Jimmy. This is to go some way in thanking you for that.”

    “Ow’s about that then?

  157. Thankyou Doug for a post to the heart of these matters.

    I looked to check on this note “Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country Jimmy…”
    and found it in this Guardian article

    I think, taking Craigs comment into account “i fear we may never be allowed to find out” – that possible involvement of high Royalty may be practically impossible to establish, much less to prosecute, because they have just too many protections.

    I have always been more than a little suspicious about Diana’s death too. But even the circles of royalty do not seem to be as alien and cohesive as i would expect, and as unbounded occultive narratives proclaim – The Guardian article is strengthened by a comment from a senior royal aide, who i would expect to just keep quiet if morals and practices in that area are as inhuman as they are conspicuously rendered in places.

    Last week a former senior royal aide said Savile’s behaviour when he visited Charles’s official home at St James’s Palace was a cause for “concern and suspicion”. Dicky Arbiter, spokesman for the Queen between 1988 and 2000, said Savile used to rub his lips up the arms of Charles’s young female assistants as a greeting.

    It seems to be the case, most we can do about the possibility or degree of ill spirits in these royal and secret service realms, is to pursue it where we can and impeach it with reason, cultural conciousness, from outside, and hope and appeal to the people inside their fortresses to sort their houses out. I dont see any way to affect these monsterous secret and powerful historical arrangements than to reach out to remnants and renaissance of goodness within them, as far as each can. But most cant reach far, especially those who damn the whole lot. Damnable though many may find others and some even themselves.

  158. “Prince Charles sent a box of cigars and gold cufflinks to Jimmy Savile in 2006 with a note saying “Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country Jimmy. This is to go some way in thanking you for that.”

    This is in no way defending Savile. The Savile narrative according to Savile on the BBC’s Desert Island Discs is that he was a conscripted Bevin Boy and was trapped and fearfully injured in the pits during or after the war (conscription to the mines continued till 1948). Still seems singular praise if for that, and due also to tens of thousands of others.

    I haven’t had the motivation to listen over to this, since these very public revelations, though when I did hear it a good while ago, I was aware of credible allegations then.

  159. Savile used his charity work to deflect attention away from his private life but it’s not uncommon for paedophiles to get away with abuse for long periods. There have been several cases brought to trial recently of elderly men who abused children 30-40 years ago in fact it almost seems to be the norm. Usually it’s simply because the victims are intimidated or too embarassed to come forward.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/26/reginald-davies-jailed-child-abuse

  160. jonny 2 jons

    17 Nov, 2012 - 4:04 pm

    Some wit referred to Craig as a Machiavellian shill (Al-Hilli) comments,when it seems the Lord is a bit of an expert in the Princes ways. As usual I smell rats.

  161. http://scallywagmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/scallywag-magazine-article-on-lord.html

    this article from the 90s is very disturbing

    shows good reason why so many of our MPs are so corruptable and easily persuaded to support the unsupportable

  162. According to his Wiki entry (yeah I know..) Lord MacAlpine and his wife run a B&B in southern Italy. Doesn’t sound much like the lifestyle of a multi-millionaire.

    Private Eye claims that Messham has variously claimed to have been abused by the “senior Tory” 12 times, 3 or 4 times or 3 times. At the Waterhouse Enquiry it’s said he refused to talk about the man called MacAlpine and claimed that he was already dead.

    Make of that what you will.

  163. Definitely off topic, sorry

    I’ve just sneaked into this quiet thread to test how to attach an avatar to my posts, and whether an animated gif will be accepted (probably not).

  164. Well that didn’t work … what about ….this

  165. kuhggkuahdkhqK

  166. …… aaaahhh … gravitar ….

  167. Hello, sorry for disturbing your discussion here for a second…. can see eg Kempe here who’s over there ata CM’s Annecy blog as well.
    Q: Has the site been closed, or are there maintanances going on?? Any idea??
    Thanks for your reply

    Good luck @ all

  168. Site has been open, I think activity is just a sporadic affair Shelock. The format is more suited to dynamic open contribution to Craigs hot topics, than continuous reporting.
    For myself ive been reading comments on the Gaza crisis and plagerising the good ones into other forums where there is more need. Im also avoiding familiar chat, because in proportion to my contributions ive done more than enough of that. The more varied the comments for hot topics the better in my opinion.

    cheers

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