The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Some interesting links about the al saffar family and their enemies:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/03/04/iraqs_elected_criminals
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakim_al-Zamili
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/05/world/middleeast/05baghdad.html?n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fT%2fTerrorism
http://www.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/57
Should be known to understand the family background.
Thoughts about the “grandmother”.
Who put this person in the frame?
It was the accountant, Julian Stedman
“He was rushing down to collect his mother-in-law from Reading. I think she was the person who was with them”
Where was Fadwa in early September? Was the BBC interested? non
Some interesting snippets from ITN source;
George Aicolina lived two doors away from SAH. And Jack Saltman was looking after the house of SAH while there were away.
http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//ITN/2012/09/06/T06091206/?s=Claygate&st=0&pn=1
BMW cars were often parked in the driveway of their home. Saad, a mechanical engineer, who ran his own company, worked on them as a hobby, and had chosen to drive one to France
Anders7777 at 12.28 on 4.10.12:
The British Defence League? Yes, Israel clearly is assassinating Iran’s nuclear scientists and it has targeted Arab scientists too over the years, no great revelation in that – we don’t need an organisation that calls itself the ‘British Defence League’ to tell us that. But why link to the British Defence League? What is that? A new manifestation of the English Defence League, but obsessed with (to paraphrase) ‘Islam’s intrusions into British life’ and with nice pink, Mills ‘n’ Boon flowers? The EDL with camomile tea? Is this the resurrection of Lady Jane (Birdwood)?
Saad Al-Hilli may have said something of interest to Saltman before he went on holiday.
In the clip for C4 news,
http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//ITN/2012/09/06/T06091201/?s=Claygate&st=0&pn=1
Saltman says
“it could involve libellous comments if it turns out not to be true”
What does Jack mean?
Here’s someone David Cox of the BBC ought to have talked to:
David Wilson, a criminologist at Birmingham City University in England , who at the time said:
“Even in those kinds of crime scenes, you have to check for life,” he said. “Eight hours is an incredible length of time for the little girl not to have been found.”
Doesn’t sound if he believes the official narrative.
Elsewhere he said:
The police should also look at how many people were in the holiday party.
We know there was one man, two children and two women. Were there other people in the group?
The police should work out whether anybody is missing.
You’ve got to deal with everything closer to home first.
Although this kind of murder is unusual, I think the case is very solveable.
There are two young witnesses who may be able to provide some information.
In regard to why the killer wanted these people dead, most murder victims are in some form of relationship with the perpetrator.
We need to establish the relationship between these victims. Only then should you start thinking about more fanciful theories of hitmen or other types of killers.
In my experience, hitmen do not normally leave witnesses at their crime scenes.
If indeed there were any victims.
“We are all in shock here,” said Fiona Davis, a neighbor of the family whose son goes to the same school as Hilli’s elder daughter.
“Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors, but it didn’t seem like a family that would have enemies.” [Johnny Cotton, Reuters]
http://news.yahoo.com/family-feud-focus-french-seek-clues-alps-slaying-113309956.html
Postman: “They were just, I would say, your normal family. I never noticed anything unusual about them or anything they just seemed polite, used to come out and say good morning, nothing else”
@bluebird
Re SM Al-Allaf.
38 years old seems a bit mature to be completing a PhD at QMC. But not impossible.
Is the “middle name” Mahmoud محمود commensurate with a woman? It doesn’t have the feminine “a” ending like Suheyla. I confess ignorance in this area.
I think you all should take another look at Bluebirds posts of yesterday on Auchi/ Rezco/Obama.
AH could have been a pawn in a much bigger game than at first thought.
Then add this chap to the mix:
http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~safal91/safaa%20Home.html
I fear for his safety too.
As BB says, these people do not act for themselves but for a cause & a wider purpose.
{http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/03/23/wikileaks-on-the-auchi-rezko-blago-connection/}
When this thread closes, perhaps it is time to build a search engine? Some tech savvy guy simply put all text from the 3 threads into a search engine constructed for the purpose and place it on a website.
Look at {www.cablegatesearch.net} for inspiration. In my view this is simply the best engine for searching the 250,000 + cables, and look how it comes up with matches as you type!
Note the Swedish connection in that Al Hillis CV:
Linköping University:
Linköping University is a state university in Linköping, Sweden. Linköping University was granted full university status in 1975 and is now one of Sweden’s largest academic institutions.
Another meteorite news story where the ‘regular astronomer’ doesnt think its a meteorite.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/western-cape/maybe-a-meteorite-but-not-a-helicopter-1.1392818#.UGvnZ01ZUeE
——————————————————-
UK design to Harpoon old satellites – could be used to remove unwanted working ones too
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19803461]
………..the harpoon’s designer, Dr Jaime Reed, from Astrium UK.
“But there is more to this story than run-of-the mill political corruption. Nadhmi Auchi is alleged to have a long affiliation with Iraqi Baathism and Saddam Hussein—which his attorneys deny. How close were they? According to a 1960 US Embassy report, Auchi was convicted along with Saddam by an Iraqi court for his part in a failed 1959 assassination attempt against then-Iraqi Prime Minister Qassim. For his crime, Auchi earned a sentence of “three years rigorous imprisonment.”
{snip}
Journalists digging into stories involving Auchi often find themselves peppered with threats of libel litigation from a London law firm known as Carter-Ruck. Auchi’s litigation threats have chased eight articles from the internet sites of the UK Guardian, Observer and New Statesman.”
http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/03/23/wikileaks-on-the-auchi-rezko-blago-connection/
Astrium owns SSTL
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/january2009/eads_buys_sstl.htm
“churning over SAH’s wife’s age or where she was born or where her mother was born… is there a eureka moment on the horizon?”
“This really gets me…as her mother was a “Swede” passport holder..previously “where ever”….and her daughter is a……?”
Has it not been established that Iraqi passports issued in Sweden are often bogus?
So his wife and her “mother” could be anyone from anywhere?
What was the mother doing in Reading if she’s supposed to be from Sweden?
Have any of these people been buried yet, Mollier’s had a funeral, the AL-hillis?
Straw. Re your earlier comment:
Iraqi LGBT is being blocked from advocating for the group by the UK government.
The UK government through its Border Agency has decided not to give priority to the asylum application of Iraqi LGBT leader Ali Hili, in exile in London. The application has been outstanding for nearly three years and while it is outstanding, Ali cannot travel
http://iraqilgbtuk.blogspot.fr/p/ali-must-travel.html
Rva 525 posted this 11.31 pm 2/10/12 before heaps of bickering/sliding
Didnt want anybody to miss it
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.lang.vhdl/2011-07/msg00095.html
“Didnt want anybody to miss it
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.lang.vhdl/2011-07/msg00095.html”
That could be anyone though?
No sign of any Al-hillis of interest posting to usenet:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!search/Al-Hilli%7Csort:date
Given there’s all this talk of our Al-hilli posting anti Israel comments to groups, it should not be too hard to find his posts?
Just need to know what he called himself online…
I find that RVA 525 post very interesting & surely has no bearing on his day job ?
For the record, deleted a few posts from @Anders7777, and a good deal between @James and @BigDaddy. The latter was insisting on a Mossad connection, but the fight was derailing the discussion, and added nothing to the thread.
@James – I noticed you speculated that @BigDaddy turned up just after @Anders7777 – hinting maybe that they’re a team or the same individual – that might have provoked it. Please don’t rise to the bait if insults are thrown – @BigDaddy isn’t offering much of a discussion afaict, so just let him/her burn themselves out, and ignore totally.
@straw44berry – an ignore option, yes in theory. Or people could just do it manually! This is, surprisingly enough, a very rare problem around here. Our moderation is normally extremely light-touch.
I think BigDaddy is very sensible, and I would not recommend to “ignore” him, because this would be extremely rude. He could very well be a better human being than for example “James”. What BigDaddy does well is keeping his posts short and snap – and he doesn’t post that many posts. This is altogether much better than posting loads of bollocks.
@Y
I decided to interact today because I was so tired of people posting information that was so blatantly untrue and encouraging others to go on a wild goose chase. I’m referring to @Ferret here, of course – Y 3 Oct, 2012 – 1:40 am
I see what you want now. Seeing as Dave B has failed dismally to deflect attention away from SAH’s possible links to nuclear weapons research (and in fact has deepened my resolve), you now step in to try to discredit me, with the intention to lessen the impact of my postings.
Nice try!
So let’s see if your accusations actually have any merit.
Fail 1: You claimed initially that 2 of the 4 items of the leaked D Notice were covered by two of the standing DA Notices. I pointed out that this was false, and the two standing DA Notices you referred to do not, in fact, cover any of the points of the leaked DA Notice.
Fail 2: You responded by saying you’d made a mistake and you’d meant DA Notice 5, which covers revealing secret service operatives. This might cover SAH’s “links” to the secret services as per the leaked D Notice, but in any case the 3 other items of the leaked D Notice are not covered by any of the standing DA Notices.
Fail 3: You claim that I do not understand the DA Notice system, and that the D Notice Committee do not send out individual D Notices in response to individual events. In that regard, my original post was shortcutting and you are of course technically correct.
However, what you neglect to point out is that, in exceptional circumstances, the D Notice Committee can (and do) send out letters to editors, reminding them of their responsibilities, and requesting they avoid certain subjects under the standing arrangements.
I suspect these letters have colloquially become known as “D Notices” even though this is not, in fact, the correct terminology.
Here are two examples:
On 8 April 2009 the Government issued a DA-Notice in relation to sensitive anti-terror documents photographed when Assistant-Commissioner Bob Quick arrived at Downing Street for talks about current intelligence
On 25 November 2010, the Government issued a DA-Notice in relation to sensitive documents expected to be imminently released on the website Wikileaks.
http://wikispooks.com/wiki/D_Notice
(No doubt you will attempt to rubbish wikispooks but what the heck!)
I will post the text of the “D Notice” in the latter example in the following post. Note that technically it is not a “D Notice” but is actually a letter from the Secretary of the “Defence Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee”.
So, in summary, fail, fail and fail again.
But nice try!
🙂
Oh, and one final thought:
You, like Dave B before you, seem to be 100% convinced that SAH does NOT have any links to nuclear weapons research, so there’s no point looking. And it would be a “wild goose chase”, as you put it.
Now, isn’t that a strange coincidence?
I must say, I wonder how you both can be so convinced. And why neither of you is curious.
Can I ask, do you work in the Atomic Weapons Establishment? Do you have access to their employment records? Please, do let us all know, won’t you?
And here’s the text of that “D Notice”:
From: Andrew Vallance
Sent: Fri 26/11/2010 12:42
To: Sunday Telegraph; Ian Martin; Sunday Telegraph; Channel Five; Caroline Wyatt; C4 News Desk; Sun; Kevin Brown; Sunday Mail; Mail on Sunday; Five TV; Associated Press TV; William Lewis; Tim Marshall; Press Gazette; Allister Heath; Jonathan Collett; Daily Telegraph; Daily Record; Evening Standard; Daily Star; Independent on Sunday; Observer; Foresight News; Daily Express; Sunday Times; Financial Times; Associated Press; Times; Spark FM; chris wissun; Sunday Mirror; Sunday Herald; News of the World; Tom Newton-Dunn; Stephen Abell; Scotsman; Press Association; BFBS Will Inglis; Will Gore; Mark Birdsall; Guardian; Daily Mail; Daily Mirror; People; Foresight News; Telegraph Legal; Glenmore Trenear-Harvey; Sunday Post; Reuters; ITV News Desk; Independent; Evening Times; Jonathan Grun; Glasgow Herald; Five TV
Subject: DA Notice Letter of Advice to All UK Editors – Further Wikileaks Disclosures
To All Editors
Impending Further National Security Disclosures by Wikileaks
I understand that Wikileaks will very shortly release a further mass of US official documents onto its internet website. The full scope of the subject matter covered by these documents remains to be seen, but it is possible that some of them may contain information that falls within the UK’s Defence Advisory Notice code. Given the large number of documents thought to be involved, it is unlikely that sensitive UK national security information within these documents would be recognised by a casual browser. However, aspects of national security might be put at risk if a major UK media news outlet brought such information into obvious public prominence through its general publication or broadcast.
Therefore, may I ask you to seek my advice before publishing or broadcasting any information drawn from these latest Wikileaks’ disclosures which might be covered by the five standing DA Notices. In particular, would you carefully consider information that might be judged to fall within the terms of DA Notice 1 (UK Military Operations, Plans and Capabilities) and DA Notice 5 (UK Intelligence Services and Special Forces). May I also ask you to bear in mind the potential consequential effects of disclosing information which would put at risk the safety and security of Britons working or living in volatile regions where such publicity might trigger violent local reactions, for example Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan?
As always, I am available 24/7 to offer DA Notice guidance…
Yours Sincerely,
Andrew Vallance
Air Vice-Marshal
Secretary, Defence Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee
http://order-order.com/2010/11/26/that-wikileaks-d-notice/
Al Jazeera running the leaked story on French nuclear reactors……. all have worrying faults !
It’s quite funny, Ferret, to read this today – when ALL the cables are now available unedited at the excellent {www.cablegatesearch.net}
It’s interesting you write this , Katie:
The Germans and Swiss will be closing their reactors down, and this is people who are control freaks and always very meticoulous and you know the stereotype: Allerdings muss sauber und rein sein [Everything must be clean]. So perhaps the Germans and Swiss knew very well about cracks, and decided they could no longer go along with this, after Fukushima, but the more easy going French have been longer to face up to it and to take the consequence?
Morning All. Back on board following another operation. The morphine’s worn off and I’m just trawling my way through the new thread. I’m less skeptical about the D notice now Ferret.
Getting distracted by the Saville situation. I remember a story about 5 years ago of about 3000 upstanding members of society (police, teachers, celebs) who had been implicated in a massive peadophile ring. The story just disappeared and so many police were supposedly involved…
Apologies to James and Anders regarding last night. I fell asleep. I’m not able for a ‘run’ of late nights.
In reply to Anders:
“Nuid, the Mossad, as I’m sure you will know, have been bumping off Arab scientists for years”
Iranians I thought?
“hundreds at the last count”
Do you have any source at all for that? I would have thought it wasn’t anything like that high a number.
“– and SAH was very knowledgeable and talented.”
Knowledgeable and talented doesn’t mean he was either Iranian or working for the Iranians. They Israelis are not trying to bump off all Arab or Irananian scientists in all disciplines are they? Netanyahu is mad but not quite that mad, surely.
“The motive for doing a risky hit on foreign soil must have been very large indeed, the pros outweighing the cons.”
So you don’t have a specific motive in mind? Or a theory about what SAH was doing in Chevaline?
“As SAH’s brother said, the massacre was a result of SAH’s work.”
That doesn’t tell us much, Anders.
I came across a reference to SAH being involved in some new satellite technology for mapping/tracking shipping? I know zero about satellite technology, but it occurred to me to ask, could such a thing track/map submarines? Since the Israelis have just acquired the last of about five or six subs from the Germans, subs which they use or intend to use to carry nuclear weapons, I would assume that such tracking capability would annoy them greatly. (Along with every other country that has subs of course.) But I would have thought that while you can kill people you can’t kill a technology, once it’s been invented. I have always thought that this “policy” of killing off scientists was a bit daft for that reason.
And I would have imagined that satellites could track shipping already, but what do I know?
(I have to re-find the source for that story. I didn’t bookmark it. Grrrr …)
“Further, the DA notice pinpoints the 4 main avenues that journalists, but not us, are forbidden to talk about.”
Anders, we don’t have any solid evidence that there ever was a D-notice. And there has already been controversy about it here.
“Therein lies the solution.”
You call that a ‘solution’? I don’t.
“Do note that the USA has just de-listed the MEK as a terrorist organisation.”
Yes I know, and that’s already been discussed here too. I don’t see how it leads to any more cooperation between the CIA and Mossad than there was already. If there was. I would imagine Mossad largely play their cards very close to their chests.
“Nuid asked a facetious question, and I took 30 minutes answering her.”
No, not 100% facetious, I actually wanted to see what you had to say. But unfortunately I had to shut down. And I do apologise for that.
I can’t imagine what an ASCII picture of “M O S S A D 7.65mm” is supposed to contribute. It’s certainly not evidence of anything at all. It’s like posting a cartoon.
“anders is the brightest button on here” says Big Daddy.
All I can say is, “you’re easily impressed”.
You’ll have to count me out of more-or-less real time conversations – this thread is too time-consuming for me, I’m afraid. No offense, but I don’t know how the rest of you do it!
@Kenneth
It’s quite funny, Ferret, to read this today – when ALL the cables are now available unedited at the excellent {www.cablegatesearch.net}
But they’re not published in the UK Mainstream Media, which is what the D Notices cover.
Who needs a D notice when there’s this going on ?
“Journalists digging into stories involving Auchi often find themselves peppered with threats of libel litigation from a London law firm known as Carter-Ruck. Auchi’s litigation threats have chased eight articles from the internet sites of the UK Guardian, Observer and New Statesman.
WikiLeaks itself is now under legal attack by Auchi’s lawyers.
What is so stifling about English libel law? In the U.K., as Carter-Ruck explains and Slander Cases.html on its own website: “A libel claimant does not have to prove that the words are false or to prove that he has in fact suffered any loss. Damage is presumed.”
In a December, 2003, obituary, former C-R partner David Hooper wrote:
“The libel lawyer Peter Carter-Ruck, who died on Friday, had a chilling effect on the media. He was a chancer, out for the maximum fee. And he did for freedom of speech what the Boston Strangler did for door-to-door salesmen.”
Posted on the Carter-Ruck website, Injunctions.html an article by C-R partner Nigel Tait outlines the limited legal bases for “prior restraint” in England but then explains that some publishers can be convinced to censor themselves by “the first two (sic) weapons of the Spanish Inquisition. Fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency.”
Perhaps hoping to inspire “fear and surprise” with “ruthless efficiency” Carter-Ruck demand letters—laden with misspellings and what appear to be cut-and-paste formulations–have been going out not only to large British newspapers, but also to American newspapers and both well-known and obscure bloggers.
Link on previous comment.
My fledgling research into SAH’s possible nuclear weapons connections has got as far as finding out that the RAL (Rutherford Appleton Laboratories) site used to be known as “Harwell”, which will ring a bell for some.
SAH was reported to have worked at RAL as a student on work experience in 1984, I believe, and was reported to have returned for several summers.
If the quote below is true, then the Atomic Energy Research Establishment would have been located either right next door to RAL at the time SAH was there, or perhaps it was one and the same facility? It’s not clear from the article.
Getting closer now…?
The Atomic Energy Research Establishment (known as AERE or colloquially Harwell) near Harwell, Oxfordshire, was the main centre for atomic energy research and development in the United Kingdom from the 1940s to the 1990s.
…
UKAEA was divided in the early 1990s. UKAEA retained ownership of all land and infrastructure and of all nuclear facilities, and of businesses directly related to nuclear power. The remainder was privatised as AEA Technology and floated on the London Stock Exchange. Harwell Laboratory contained elements of both organisations, though the land and infrastructure was owned by UKAEA.
The name Atomic Energy Research Establishment was dropped at the same time, and the site became known as the Harwell International Business Centre. The site incorporates the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory which is home to the Science and Technology Facilities Council (including the ISIS neutron source and Diamond Light Source).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Energy_Research_Establishment
“My fledgling research into SAH’s possible nuclear weapons connections has got as far as …”
Is everyone half-blinded by the propaganda coming out of the US about Iran and nukes? I think the satellite area is possibly much more fruitful.
“in December Mr Al-Hilli visited a sub-division of SSTL called DMC International Imaging, which has recently signed a contract with the Chinese to help map the country via satellite imagery. DMC also has a lucrative satellite-mapping deal with Russia and is working with the Foreign Office in Afghanistan to monitor illicit opium poppy cultivation.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200388/Did-French-Alps-murder-victims-secret-work-space-satellite-contract-make-prime-assassination-target.html
Industrial espionage/satellite technology/opium poppies = plenty of possible motives there. Literally billions involved.