Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.
We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.
What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.
Fred; What would the trailing embers be? Burning alloys (aluminum and titanium) bits perhaps.
I am still wondering why it flew 200 KM off the flight path. The explanation (hearsay) that the pilot felt bad about flying over the Ukraine makes no sense since he was charting a path over the most dangerous portion of that geography.
Find where I called you a fascist?
“The place is crawling with ‘blackshirts’ except they are not wearing uniforms. They do however change their socks on a regular basis.”
“All the main TV programmes and press outlets are so free that they do not cover important stories like RD’s fascists in Kiev attack on the Russian Embassy a day and a half ago.”
ESLO, hard to believe the bulk of your report. Propaganda. Think about it. More than 90% of the Donbass region voted to become part of Russia. Why would they flee towards the people who are bombing the shit out of them. You’re the idiot for believing such tosh. Of course I could be wrong but you would have to provide something more concrete than “estimated” and “thought to have been displaced” for a wisened cynic like me. It’s one way traffic, though I don’t doubt a few might have got out to stay with pro-Russian relatives in other cities.
But whichever way they flee, they are fleeing from your beloved fascists who have brought terror to a peaceful area. Surely your small intellect can it its brain round that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2694225/Thousands-panicked-pro-Russian-refugees-flee-eastern-Ukraine-11-people-killed-air-strike.html
Nick Turner, sound. “Well one possible explanation is that we are looking at the final resting place of MH370 and the remains of some its passengers, who have been dead for a long time.” I thought this a possibility after it flew (was guided) to the military base on Diego Garcia which was stolen from the inhabitants, like Bikini Atholl and all the other paradises the Yanks have turned to shit, including the paradise in the skies.
KAL 007 is comparable. Of course the Soviets acted badly throughout the process until 1992.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007_alternative_theories
“This theory, promoted by David Pearson in his book KAL 007: the Cover-up postulates that the pilots made “a deliberate, carefully planned intrusion into Soviet territory with the knowledge of US military and intelligence agencies.”[27] He argues that it was impossible for the pilots not to know that they were off course. Various mechanisms, such as the Horizontal Situation Indicator,[28] should, assuming that the aircraft’s navigation systems were functional and correctly programmed, have alerted the pilots of their course deviation. In addition, VHF transmissions to Anchorage had to be relayed via flight KAL 015 (which should have been a few minutes behind KAL 007, had it been on course), because the plane had travelled too far off course.”
“The place is crawling with ‘blackshirts’ except they are not wearing uniforms. They do however change their socks on a regular basis.”
“All the main TV programmes and press outlets are so free that they do not cover important stories like RD’s fascists in Kiev attack on the Russian Embassy a day and a half ago.”
Now find where I called you a fascist?
JG: I posted information on the Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot on the MH370 thead. You don’t need a pilot to fly the plane and, even if there is one, there is nothing he can do to control it if those on the outside decide to override the system.
“ESLO, hard to believe the bulk of your report. Propaganda. Think about it. More than 90% of the Donbass region voted to become part of Russia.”
In 1992, in more peaceful circumstances, a significant majority voted to become part of an independent Ukraine – what you do not understand is that the reality in Eastern Ukraine is that that there are some, probably the largest group, who consider themselves to be ethnically Russian, others who consider themselves Ukrainian, a large number who can point to having mixed origins (which is also the case amongst many Russian – and most certainly in Moscow, where many have ancestors from Belarus, Ukraine and the other former Soviet republics) – and in fact I suspect that not a few have the Mongolian blue spot. All this nationalistic crap is something that the likes of Putin and Stalin seek to stir up from time to time in order to divert attention from their other abuses. In ordinary life most sensible Russians do not get hung on such matters.
The reality is that ordinary people are fleeing Eastern Ukraine in both directions in substantial numbers – the UNHCR doesn’t make up these figures. Until the rebels took control of Eastern Ukraine with assistance and arms from Putin there was next to no violence there – the Ukrainian govt. did do some stupid things with regard to the Russian language which were quickly rescinded – but only the cretinous would use that as a justification for the subsequent military action by the rebels and Putin.
Nick Turner
Thanks for the management summary, which has been followed by the quick succession of nonsense bollocks getting posted to bury it. After all we all know goyem cattle are like a gold fish; attention span of ……. Yeah Kardashians …….
Your thoughts about TWA800 (which is not fifty years, but eighteen years ago) made me think. However a more recent case of the 9/11 plane shot down by a missile in Pennsylvania near Indian Lake and Shanksville (flight 93) had nothing left of it, and the only signs were a crater in the ground! (TWA fell into the water, hence the recovered debris)
Given the forward velocity of the jet liner and its altitude any missile impact will in all likelihood have caused the jet to dive with engines on whilst vectoring into ground, that would in turn leave very little in the way of remains and any other debris, to find whole corpses would be strange.
There is a rat away with this crash!
Now find where I called you a fascist?
Why don’t you put on your blackshirt and go and ask your friends in the BNP – even the most otiose will be able to help you find the answer.
Ben.
Re Chaff.
Ben. Fred.
Chaff: Another recurring theme. Thanks for the links. I wasn’t convinced when I saw the video. In the video the streamers seem identical to those in the Ac-130 photo.
If it is the MH-17 crash it then it gets even stranger. Why would a civilian airliner carry chaff?
Any ideas?
…
Nick Turner
19 Jul, 2014 – 7:40 pm
Timing.
Decomposing bodies.
The irrational course change. (Just think of the security checks the passengers had undergone only to be routed over an war-zone where Ukie planes were being downed daily)
Bizzare cancelled flight schedules.
The other Malaysian airliner mystery.
This incident get’s more fishy by the hour. Another Ghouta?
…
Here’s what looks like an informed perspective on BUK, how it works and the odds on the resistence fighters being able to use it even if they had the hardware.
How air defense normally works
Does anyone here have the military knowlege to comment on this assessment?
…
Finally for RD.
Mandated image of Putin (Prince of Darkness)
Don’t you piss him off!
“I am still wondering why it flew 200 KM off the flight path. The explanation (hearsay) that the pilot felt bad about flying over the Ukraine makes no sense since he was charting a path over the most dangerous portion of that geography.”
I haven’t seen any reports of the plane being off it’s flight path. The flight path used wasn’t the most usual one flown by that plane but AFAIK it was the one filed. I would expect pilots vary their routes for many reasons, to avoid head winds and save fuel maybe.
Fedup: Apologies – got the wrong TWA800. That was in Rome in 1964 but the later one was, as you say, 17th July 1996.
Flight 93 does not seem to have powered into the ground. It has been pointed out that there was very little in the crater, which was far too small, and the presence of some grass on the sides indicated that it was there before the events of 911 took place. It’s all an illusion.
The ‘eyewitness’ to the MH17 crash did not mention that it entered the ground under power and, as I pointed out, there is very little sign of any cratering.
@Sofia
I think we can safely discount the decomposing bodies of existing nowhere but in the imagination of a science fiction writer.
It’s probable the truth is that the rebels didn’t actually capture the BUK SAM unit, more likely the unit swapped sides but the Ukraine government don’t like to admit to it.
“but only the cretinous would use that as a justification for the subsequent military action by the rebels and Putin.”
What is wrong with you? It was the fascists in Kiev who tried to violently take Eastern Ukraine from the declared autonomous region it had become under the referendum – something much more democratic than the coup d’etat that removed Yanukovich. Putin thought the Donbass should have waited. So wrong again there. He is in fact the only head of government who has acted with restraint. You had better hope that the gangsters from Kiev get control of the area if you want to write your warped account of the history of the region. Keep watching the BBC because last night it mentioned’ very briefly, that there had been an attack on Lugansk. But where has the BBC been since the election of Poroshenko, who pledged to bring peace but instead brought war, every day since late May?
I see that the Mail Online is running a headline:
MH17 rescue teams locate 186 bodies over 8 square miles of crime scene as Ukraine accuses Russia of removing 38 corpses and crucial evidence…
This would be a wise move on Putin’s part, especially as the Russian authorities would be able to run DNA checks on the decomposing bodies. If it turned out there were matches to some of the missing MH370 passengers, someone will have a lot of explaining to do. I pointed out on the MH370 thread that the annexation of Crimea may well have been due to Putin being aware of what had happened to that aircraft and he exploited it to the full, in the knowledge that he held all the cards. Now he may be holding a few more.
Nick Turner
Your thesis: flight MH17 was actually MH370 mouldering in East Ukraine complete with decomposing bodies.
I am wondering if I am taking you too seriously. After all, where have the 298 people who left Amsterdam last Wednesday gone to?
“I haven’t seen any reports of the plane being off it’s flight path.”
There are dozens of them on the web and Russia has filed questions about why it was diverted. You can get Russia Today on the internet. Here are some of the alternative reports Fred.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/air-disaster/#comment-467837
Nick Turner
Thanks for clarification, and we agree on the points you have made. As I mentioned in my earlier post, there is a rat away with this crash! The truth is being buried fast, leaving a narrow window of opportunity to glean more facts before the narrative is gelled hard and fast and stamped as the official history.
Sofia,
Hi there, and good link, the link is pretty good, and the points raised are valid. There is a slight misrepresentation the equipment to interrogate the aircraft transponders (kind of radar) do not cost thousands, and are in the region of £135 to £175 and anyone can cobble these up buying from the thingy bay.
The point that is further of interest is the proposition that the rebels can operate these anti aircraft systems, fact that there is a need for trained personnel to operate these equipment somehow is not pointed to. The ragtag army of Ukrainians fighting for their lives under the onslaught of the fascists from Kiev can hardly be competent enough to operate such a sophisticated systems, and it is of interest that so far it has not been explained; the Russian missile system Buk M-1s is not a point and shoot weapon to be launched from the shoulder or back of a transit van.
“I am wondering if I am taking you too seriously. After all, where have the 298 people who left Amsterdam last Wednesday gone to?” The passengers would have been in their seats. There were, according to reports of those first on the scene, the stench of decomposing bodies, but also, the majority, passengers who had clearly been killed by the crash. Some bodies had no blood. With such a tragedy it is hard on the bereaved.
“There are dozens of them on the web and Russia has filed questions about why it was diverted. You can get Russia Today on the internet. Here are some of the alternative reports Fred.”
All I can do is repeat that I haven’t seen any reports that the pilot was not on the flight path he had filed with air traffic controllers.
“There were, according to reports of those first on the scene, ”
So who were these people and who did they report it to?
Nick
From what you have said the logical explanation would be that this was not a plane crash as such, so neither was this a shot down plane, although bodies and 777 plane parts fell to the ground?
Umm interesting.. is that what you are implying?
Most of you should give yourself a shake, supporting guys with ski masks, who talk like gangsters trying to loot and deface a massive war crime site! Craig would be proud of you!
Doesn’t it seem ironic considering how Craig became known, unmasking the Karimov strong man autocracy in Uzbekistan for their human rights abuses, that most of the commentators here are rooting for the guys with the ski masks who talk like gangsters and behave like death squad thugs looting and defacing a massive warm crime scene?
Could it be that the normal corridor ie the usual flight corridor is two hundred miles away? The approved flight plan could have been shifted the flight corridor away, and still remain approved! Pilots don’t fly on the flight path on their own, they need to be given approval. (not applicable to military pilots, they have a different set of measures in place).
Fred. 9 31pm
At present there are lots of pieces that may or may not fit into a conivincing explanation of what happened.
The reported state of the bodies may of course be among the many fictions being stirred into the fog of war.
I want to see credible DNA analysis fo the bodies before I can form an opinion one way or the other. I don’t want to discount what anyone says unless I know that, like the Ukie junta, they have form.
Given the known record of key players re staged pretext manufacture why do you find it so odd that many people are sceptical?
It strikes me that another MSM demonisation campaign is also in full swing, just like other occasions where we have been led by the nose into war, or do you think that’s just coincidence?
…
Fedup. 9 53pm
“…The ragtag army of Ukrainians fighting for their lives under the onslaught of the fascists from Kiev can hardly be competent enough to operate such a sophisticated systems, and it is of interest that so far it has not been explained; the Russian missile system Buk M-1s is not a point and shoot weapon to be launched from the shoulder or back of a transit van…”
There are so many aspects of this story where the evidence is lodged both in terms of physical, communications and radar data that I have a strong feeling that this time around there will be credible investigations.
If it turns out it was a false flag the unfolding narrative here may explain the timing.
(OT. The way the English language is abused in this translation will give our resident grammar pedants hours of harmless fun!)
“Could it be that the normal corridor ie the usual flight corridor is two hundred miles away? The approved flight plan could have been shifted the flight corridor away, and still remain approved! Pilots don’t fly on the flight path on their own, they need to be given approval. (not applicable to military pilots, they have a different set of measures in place).”
An air corridor is a route for planes through restricted airspace. The airspace over Ukraine isn’t restricted, the pilot would be able to take pretty much whatever route he wanted though having filed his flight plan he would not be able to stray more than a few miles from it.
‘The reality is that ordinary people are fleeing Eastern Ukraine in both directions in substantial numbers – the UNHCR doesn’t make up these figures. Until the rebels took control of Eastern Ukraine with assistance and arms from Putin there was next to no violence there – the Ukrainian govt. did do some stupid things with regard to the Russian language which were quickly rescinded – but only the cretinous would use that as a justification for the subsequent military action by the rebels and Putin.
RD- The UNHCR report you link to also makes clear that the number fleeing to Russia is more than twice as high as the number fleeing to other areas of Ukraine. You are also silent on the escalation, in recent weeks, of ‘military action’ by the Kiev government, which is clearly a factor in the present day refugee problem.
Sure as hell this kind of piloting skills does not need any external measures for any potential mishaps.
Route or flight paths