If the Guardian is so bad why do you quote it so often as raising valid issues as in previous blogs?

For example Guardian on Manningham Buller

‘There is a good article in the Guardian by Vikram Dodd on Eliza Manningham Buller’s professed ignorance.’

Well I can always make use of a hundred quid, I bet I can find something from his student days where he investigation some genuinely investigated and wrote about some paint drying.

Dear Mr Patrick Wintour

Please can you give me an example of something you wrote which is good. Someone promised me £100 if I can find anything that you wrote that is a genuine piece of journalism.

I believe the person who made the promise is a man of integrity and will promptly pay up if I provide him with an article.

And I think I can make use of a £100, I’m not sure how yet, but I am sure I’ll be able to think of something.

Thank you

Edward Goldberg

Do you think he will email me an example from his student days, or do you think he has never known how to write?

But anyway, I have nothing to lose. If he has never wrote anything worth printing, I haven’t lost anything. If he can dig up a piece of crap from the olden days, I’ve just made myself £100 quid!!!!!!!

Hahahhahahahahaha

I did an internet search but all his stuff was crap, so I emailed him to see if he has some genuine pieces of journalism that haven’t been printed.

Well done, Mr Goldberg. Hilarious! Surfeit of Blatcherite propaganda, Wintour’s speciality, it would appear, and the cloacal torrent of lifestyle shite, are why I stopped buying The Guardian two or three years back. May the preposterous, and preposterously overpaid, ‘political editor’ rise to your ingenious challenge. I suspect, however, that whatever little sense of humour he may possess will fail on this occasion to come to his assistance.

The most ridiculous thing about Blair’s ‘threat from Iraq’ nonsense was the idea that if Saddam got nuclear weapons or other WMDs he would immediately committ suicide by using them on nuclear armed states or their allies – despite the fact that when he had chemical warheads for his scuds in the 1991 war he didn’t use them, because he knew the counter-strike could have been nuclear.

The other idea was that he would hand them over to Al Qa’ida (who weren’t even in Iraq and who would have been as likely to target Saddam with them as any of his enemies if he had given them some)

Is anyone still in doubt, whether Bliar is a complete shit, or not?

We have lived through this creep’s hubristic, murderous and costly adventures–and seen this Faustus prosper.

There is only one stone left unturned and that, is to try him through the ICC at The Haig.

Whatever book is written about him, which attempts to justify his actions, will be in the fiction department.

Maybe a “Mossad-style” trial awaits this malignant creature–this would be useful to any Bliar biography.

If he were a real journalist with any integrity he wouldn’t have a staff job.

It’s all explained here:

http://www.medialens.org/bookshop/newspeak.php

I hope it’s a real £100: none of that dodgy quantitative easing stuff!

After reading all 1465 articles on Journalisted, I’ve finally found one which epitomises the virtues of topical, incisive, intellectually heavyweight journalism, tackling extremely complex issues at the very heart of world politics after what is clearly a diligent in-depth investigation on the author’s part, which should surely have merited an award.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/10/gordonbrown.pressandpublishing

Bliar’s blood money revealed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259030/Tony-Blairs-secret-dealings-South-Korean-oil-firm-UI-Energy-Corp.html

Craig,

Depsite all your experience, knowledge and intelligence, you are still an idealist, which isn’t the worst thing to be in these infantile times. You believe in justice and the law, and these are admirably qualities in person. But we live in an era of barbarism and encroaching darkness. An era when something as fundamental as Habeus Corpus, has been trashed. But that’s another story.

Wintour’s collosal salary is paid for two primary reasons, that may, at first glance seem somewhat contradictory and subtle. First, he, and others like him, isn’t being paid so much because of his journalistic talents, but precisely because he doesn’t have talent, but he

The Iraq ruse, is starting all over again, this time in relation to Iran. NATO’s new General Secretary, the renouned political prostitute, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has announced that NATO has to develope an anti-missile defence capability, which might even encompass Russia, to shield itself from the threat posed by Iranian missiles!

Democracy; even in its controlled and neutered, bourgeois form; which is preferable to the deformed and inverted totalitarianism we now live under; democracy is dead, and we won’t see it’s like again, not in our lifetimes. The historical trajectory is away from democracy, even in a compromised form, and towards something else.

And, as I’m now warmed up, one can look at the venerable Whitehouse journalist Helen Thomas, who, if I remember correctly is 86 years old, and has been covering the Whitehouse for 58 years.

She sits at the front and asks awkward questions. Recently she asked Obama, as President, what he knew about which countries had nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Obama avoided the question, and replied that he didn’t want to speculate. She said that she didn’t want him to speculate, but say what he knew. She was then drowned out and ignored. Since then Obama, so intelligent, so masterful, so articulate, has ignored her at his press conferneces.

Your offer of a prize made me smile. I once wrote a computer program that converted any given piece of text to look like the work of the Marxist historian, Tom Nairn (it selected random nouns and adverbs and surrounded them with scare quotes). Seems I’m not the only one irritated by his style. Recently he had a piece in the London Review of Books, and Bernard Crick offered a prize of £100-worth of books to anyone who could tell him what it meant. Don’t know if the prize was ever collected. Maybe I should load up the software and see if I can generate journalism a la Wintour – shouldn’t be hard…

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v17/n06/tom-nairn/on-the-threshold

Two opinion polls published in the Murdoch papers, the Sunday Times and News of the World, on Saturday signalled no party would win an overall majority in the election, and failed to agree on which party would be the largest in parliament.

A very useful means to make the electorate believe a hung parliament will come into being through votes rather than electoral fraud.

How convenient to have a government with no opposition to pass the most draconian economic measures and no doubt continue to erode civil liberties to quash dissention.

So a visible totalitarian muppet show with Mandelson at the head, the hard state barely concealed pulling the strings.

£220k pa makes £5.80 minimum wage look like peanuts, and just over £100.00 p.w jobseekers allowance for a couple, like plastic tiddly winks. Talking of which, why did Clegg get the pension amount wrong? They are all living in a cloud-cuckoo land of super-salaries.

You could pay back the entire national debt from these people’s childrens’ piggy banks. But don’t say they haven’t got brains. They’re going to cut our public services to get us out of this recession. The chancellor said he was going to target the super-rich who had benefited the most from the boom years. He doesn’t think that the £220 k pa people are over paid, and need their wages curtailing. They only think that the worst off, whose tax threshold is going to be virtually frozen, are the ones whose wages need to be curtailed.

For Nick Clegg’s information JSA is taxed,if you can believe that, in the same sentence as a annual salary of £220k. These wise people deserve £220 k pa. They deserve hell, for their support for what this country has done in Iraq and Afghanistan. I’m in total agreement with both propositions.

Writerman,

Yes. We have lost Paul Craig Roberts and George Galloway.

It’s a bad week-end.

p.s. I’m fully aware that Alistair Darling is taxing over £150k salaries at 50%, but that is not curtailing. These new labour stupidos are still following Thatcher theory that high salaries and interest based profits from banks bring revenue to the country.

Do they have three inch thick glasses or are they just wilfully blind to the obvious thought, that 15 years after the Tories demise, they might have had time to invent a less socially caustic revenues system. Mrs Thatcher first implemented the system of buying out your enemies. A fair incomes policy would penalise anybody who agreed with government policy. At the top end, M.P.s would have to pay one million pounds every year for the privelege of being capitalist, war-mongering stooges. Critics of government policy would be paid £60K to criticise government creatively. Foul-mouthed bloggers like ourselves who rant against all the evils that underpin establishment morbidity, would be given £220k salaries provided they kept to their keyboard thumping analyses for five hours minimum every day.

Sounds like an excellent idea to me, anno!

Writerman, Paul Craig Roberts has simply gone nuts. Happens all the time.

Not ‘nuts’ at all and a better human than you I would suggest.

Cessation of journalistic activism

On March 26, 2010, in a farewell column titled, “Truth Has Fallen and Taken Liberty With It,” Roberts effectively announced his journalistic retirement. The article, published at Counterpunch.org, begins:

“There was a time when the pen was mightier than the sword. That was a time when people believed in truth and regarded truth as an independent power and not as an auxiliary for government, class, race, ideological, personal, or financial interest.” It proceeds to a bitter chronicle of the demise of American intellectual integrity, particularly that of financial journalists and economists. These have been thoroughly corrupted by monetary inducements to misrepresent and ignore what has been, in effect, the systematic dismantling of the nation’s productive life, in the name of globalization.

He holds the members of his own journalistic profession largely responsible for abetting relentless outsourcing of American industry, thereby gutting the American middle class and effectively dooming the nation’s future. He describes his own ostracism from mainstream media access, the consequence of his relentless and unflinching criticism of the demolition process over the past decade. His column ends, “The militarism of the U.S. and Israeli states, and Wall Street and corporate greed, will now run their course. As the pen is censored and its might extinguished, I am signing off.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts

^ Larry,

Nuts – an asy explanation – lets hear it from the ‘nutter’ himself:

Good-Bye – Truth Has Fallen and Taken Liberty With It

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

March 24, 2010

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yk83dyd

Re Wintour:

A list of articles is here:

http://journalisted.com/patrick-wintour

^

Some more interesting quotes from Paul Craig Roberts article:’Truth Has Fallen and Taken Liberty With It’

_America’s fate was sealed when the public and the anti-war movement bought the government’s 9/11 conspiracy theory. The government’s account of 9/11 is contradicted by much evidence. Nevertheless, this defining event of our time, which has launched the US on interminable wars of aggression and a domestic police state, is a taboo topic for investigation in the media. It is pointless to complain of war and a police state when one accepts the premise upon which they are based._

…

For years I was a mainstay at the Washington Times, producing credibility for the Moony newspaper as a Business Week columnist, former Wall Street Journal editor, and former Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury. But when I began criticizing Bush’s wars of aggression, the order came down to Mary Lou Forbes to cancel my column.

The American corporate media does not serve the truth. It serves the government and the interest groups that empower the government.

@anno:

> …15 years after the Tories demise, they might have had time

> to invent a less socially caustic revenues system

I agree entirely. Closing the income gap with strong redistributive tax policies, and independent monitors to check the outcome, would be a great start.

Jon

While we’re talking about inequality,what about this problem. A fifty-seven year old working man, with less than ten years before retirement, loses his job. He has more than £16,000 of savings tied up ina bond, and he can’t get jobseekers allowance or council tax benefit until he sells his savings and all his money is gone. How much % of £16K you have, is the % of £60 per week you get paid.

Question. Who is going to get worse affected, this person or the owner of a million pound house who has to pay some new wealth tax? They keep emailing me to see if I want to sell off my state pension. Do they refuse to pay state pensions if you have any savings? If new Labour are refusing to pay people’s pensions, what’s going to happen under the born-again Tory gang?

On the original post – do you actually have enough respect for your commenters to vote on something?

Do you read the comments section?

Maybe you should ask them the following:

How many here believe that the Americans went to the moon?

I vote yes.

And again. If you sat on benefits for 20 years, after migrating to this country, your national Insurance contribution record would be complete, and you’d probably slide into a full pension on a third of life contributions. But if you got on your bike and worked for agencies and your NIC record is full of holes, you’re going to get turned away.

There was a lot of talk about pensions for all, during New Labour’s tenancy. What chance of that is there under Cameron? I don’t think a lot of people remember what it was like under Maggie’s regime.

“renouned political prostitute”

Irrelevant *chuckle* from a part-time speeling nerd.

“How many here believe that the Americans went to the moon?”

That’s a strong contender for my “tragic troll of the decade” award. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Yes Craig, Wintour writes like an oval- egg man, who has discovered a square with equal sides. For a short article, I found it sleep-inducing.

Absorbing material for Larry to ponder.

Not much chance for indigenous Brits under Cameron, Larry, you old Red Sea Pedestrian. Still, interloper Jews sticking their prominent noses into Brit business seems like Harold Wilson’s era redux, really.

How about Jews in UK supporting a party that, mutatis mutandis, equates to the ruling party of The Knesset?

Ethno-nationalism for Jews but not for Goyim, then. We Unchosen quite understand.

Craig,

Sorry to post Off Topic but wondered if you have caught the Michael Cockerell series on the Offices of Great State? Specifically the FCO episode?

Would be v.interested to hear your thoughts?

-Control

In the meantime, interesting to see Arslan’s “vengeful” finest in action on the Moscow metro. No surprise. The Islamists are just doing what they said they’d do. I’m always inclined to take open threats seriously. Maybe the Russians will think twice about engaging with the theocrats in charge of Iran?

And sorry to go off-thread. I thought you wouldn’t be prepared to discuss. Doesn’t fit the narrative after all.

And good riddance to Galloway. His unholy alliance of far left social engineers and illiberal religious dogmatists make me want to vomit.

Larry

“How many here believe that the Americans went to the moon?”

I don’t believe that “the Americans” went to the moon.

But I am satisfied with the evidence (including that of watching on TV) that the United States Government sent a few of them, at great expense, and that they all came back again.

No Native Americans were involved, as far as I know…

John D. Monkey there is only one way to respond to a Larry and that is:

“How many here believe that the Americans went to the moon?”

Your Mum!

Alan Campbell

Lady hears door being broken down by heavily armed US soldiers in Iraq and says to husband.

‘I’m always inclined to take open threats seriously, see you in the hereafter, my dear.’

You bastards sitting in the house of commons are the terrorists Mr Campbell, and if you don’t know it, wait for the election on May 6, to find out.

And the lady in Iraq who is blown to pieces by Shiite or Sunni terrorists in Iraq because she belongs to a

nother branch of the same superstition?

And sorry to go off-thread. I thought you wouldn’t be prepared to discuss.

Doesn’t fit the narrative at all.

What do you want to discuss, Mr Camp-Balls? Mr Anus here. You want to talk about extremism? You want to talk about kettling demonstrators? You want to talk about government corruption? You want to talk about international law? You want to talk about weapons of mass destruction? Name your topic of choice, Mr Camp Balls.

The Shi’ite Sunni conflict was unheard of prior to the USUK invasion. It was created by false flag operations by US forces, as everybody in Iraq knows because we have friends who witnessed the bombs being planted and we have brains that ask Cui bono?

Yeah, I saw you assholes did your thing in Moscow.

How long until this is claimed to be a false flag attack organized by Joooooossssss?

I think that you will find that he was making the following public well before you. Perhaps an apology might be in order??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/jun/18/iraq.iraq1

The only reason why the press here use sectarian violence as a fig leaf to try and hide the genocide there is because the population here is completely ignorant of Iraq.

Before the invasion the majority of

people

in Iraq wouldn’t know the answer if you asked them whether they are Sunni or Shia.

Before the invasion, a quarter of all marriages were mixed Sunni shia marriages.

That facts are white racists invaded that country, because they wanted the oil beneath it. They killed millions of people during the invasion.

Before the invasion they use WMD as an excuse, now that everyone knows that was a lie they state it is sectarian violence killing people and not the racist Zionists of America and its puppets who are killing everyone.

Arsalan: “racist Zionists of America”

As long as there are individuals like you in the world, these problems will not get worked out.

Thank you Anno and Arslan. You always live up to expectations when it comes to defending mediaeval maniacs. Were you buggered by Zionists as children?

anno: “The Shi’ite Sunni conflict was unheard of prior to the USUK invasion. It was created by false flag operations by US forces…”

Right. Because the best way to extract oil from a territory (your other claim, I’m sure) is to create a civil war in that territory.

Nope, the conflict was created by jackasses like you who have differing interpretations of magic carpets and such.

Larry yes that is true. As long as there are people like me in the world, you and your Zionist friends will face problems while committing your crimes against humanity.

Wouldn’t it be splendid if the people in Iraq and Afghanistan, just died like the native Americans when whitey came to steal?

Wouldn’t it be splendid if the world choose to ignore this genocide just like the World choose to ignore the genocide America committed on the native Americans.

Well we will not remain silent and they will not stop fighting your guns for hire.

Just know that the people your soldiers kill are in a better place, while your soldiers who die, are burning in hell and there they will remain for ever.

And while they are there, they await your arrival. They pray for the arrival of you and people like you, people too cowardly to fight, who call for wars in which the sons of poor men die and burn in hell. They await you, and pray that you will be condemned to a deeper pit of hell in which you will burn for eternity .

And I pray for it too.

Larry, burn in hell, and remain their for eternity.

Amen!!!!

anno: “every body in the universe, except Larry knows that the Muslims whose names were reported were assisted by gigantic bombs which allowed buildings that were not even hit, to pulverise into dust”

Now are you saying that no planes flew into the Towers? Are you a no-planer? Are you THAT stupid?

” the Shiite/Sunni conflict was unheard of prior to the USUK invasion”

Yeah, right, you ignorant cretin. Religionists, including Muslims, have been merrily murdering each other for centuries.

“Before the invasion the majority of

people

in Iraq wouldn’t know the answer if you asked them whether they are Sunni or Shia.”

Where is the evidence for this – certainly not supported by what Robert Fisk says. Also strange that they also tended to live in defined Sunni/Shia areas – or did they only move into them after the invasion.

Perhaps the reason that we didn’t hear of the Sunni/Shia conflict was because there was a fascist dictator in charge who didn’t exactly encourage freedom of expression and wasn’t above invading his neighbours or gassing minorities in his country.

all this hatred thanks to some third rate fiction written by an 8th century Arab paedophile.

‘mediaeval maniacs’

If you look at our society and compare it with others, it would very easy to draw the conclusion that we in the UK live in a society that in description is more barbaric than mediaeval. We have a hierarchy who do what they like; they murder people individually and en masse, they torture people, they send their armies and fund mercenaries to take resources from other people’s lands. At home right under people’s noses they steal their taxes through VAT carousel frauds, they imprison innocent people, they keep people arbitarily in prison etc

Geez Craig – stop fannying about and tell us what you honestly think of Wintour! All this subtlety confuses the issue and leaves the reader non-plussed.

“all this hatred thanks to some third rate fiction written by an 8th century Arab paedophile”

Careful Alan – that’s hate speech! These true believers can accuse the Fire Department of New York of killing their own, and Pentagon employees of covering up mass murder, yet when you make fun of their cartoon character, there will be hell to pay!

Larry you are a person who cries anti-Semitism every time Israel is attacked and sometimes when it isn’t even attacked. I see your you and your new friend are having a great hypocritical time attacking Islam.

And Larry that is how I see you, as a completely hypocrite.

And that is how I see every hypocritical cry of anti-Semitism from you.

not me guv doesn’t mean you’re not nicked, all of you , except Ruth.

The DNA evidence will not be destroyed by hell-fire into eternity. Sorry to inform you.

Your anti-Islamic zeal, faced with the truth will comfort your establishment and the Establishment who is over them is recording your lies.

@Arsalan et al – feeding the trolls is not recommended. @Larry and @alan often raise 9/11 and Jewish conspiracies out of context, so it is safe to say they are here to cause trouble, and not to have productive discussions with people they disagree with.

I hope the Americans go to the moon and stay there. And I mean ALL of them ! including Larry ! Good Riddence !

I think everyone should read what Alan just wrote, and that is the context in what you must see the Alans, Larries and Angrysobas of this world.

And the wars that they support.

Look at them, these are people who don’t just attack the religion of us who oppose them, they attack the religion one quarter of this planet including their loyal puppets.

These people make no distinction between those that oppose them and does that have sold their souls to them.

They view all people of a lesser colour as lesser human beings.

Even if the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan had sold out they will still exterminate them. As you have seen from Alans last comment, his attack is against our Prophet pbh and those that believe in him, not just the brave few that oppose the evil Zionists.

And you have seen Alans hypocritical response, this the hypocrite that cries anti-Semitism, at every opportunity. What was his response to Islam?

The hypocrites!

Dear Anno/Arslan

One of my heroines is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I’d just lurve to know what you think of her? I’m assuming that you’d like to see her stoned to death, but you might like to rape her first because she is quite good looking, and I guess you don’t get very much.

‘Make fun of’ generally implies a sense of humour which I fail to detect behind the shrill unplesant wails coming from Larry and alan campbell.

Jon

This time we have seen the troll as what they really are. When angry they often reveal their true colours. and now it is pasted for everyone to see.

Their is no delete bottom here so what they wrote will remain here.

They have revealed their hatred and the reasons for their governments genocide.

Now they have revealed, they don’t just support the war for stolen oil and unlimited support for Israel.

They support the war due to their belief in the extermination of people they deem to be of a lesser worth than themselves. People who follow the way of the last and final Prophet pbh who they have chosen to slander.

I think silly Muslims who buy in to “America doesn’t hate us they just want to steal our oil” should read what Alan wrote.

The message from Larry and Alan is clear: “America invades Muslims lands because they hate Muslims, and they hate the final Prophet pbh of God.”

Anno/arsan

I think all religion is a nonsense. Fairy-tales are for children.

I don’t mind it when people want to believe in Jesus/allah/buddah/santa claus in private, but when it starts telling me what to do, as it invariably does, well, that’s another thing.

I only started this thread cos I assumed CM wouldn’t want to talk about today’s events.

Alan Yes I’m sure you are willing to overcome your hatred of blacks in her case, because finding like minds who hate Islam and Muslims takes precedents.

“Larry you are a person who cries anti-Semitism every time Israel is attacked and sometimes when it isn’t even attacked.”

That can’t remotely be demonstrated. I do complain about anti-Semitism when, for instance, people blame the Jews for 911.

I likewise have a problem with all religion, not just your Muslim silliness.

Alan you have revealed yourself, you have no further explaining to do.

We know who you are and what you are.

And we always knew you larry and angry sober thought like that.

You have just confirmed what we already knew about you.

Now, there will come a time when you die. If you are right all you will have to look forward to is being eaten by worms. If the vast majority of the people of Earth are right, you will burn in hell.

Can I presume that the reason Arsalan has failed to address my request for evidence for his ridiculous assertion is because he doesn’t have any?

Or does he believe that whatever he says is automatically true and beyond doubt?

Where I live, I happen to be surrounded by Muslims. It didn’t even occur to me to hate them, or treat them any different than anyone else.

I don’t suspect that they’ll ever throw their religion in my face. I grew up among Mormons, who simply never brought it up.

But if they do bring it up repeatedly and force me to listen and blame the Jews for 911, etc., I might very well make fun of them for their belief in Mohammed’s magic carpet. I would do the same with the Mormons and their magic underwear.

I’m sure she is your Mrs Right

“If the vast majority of the people of Earth are right, you will burn in hell.”

Perhaps a slight majority of the world’s population has some sort of conception of hell. My understanding of the silly Christian religion is that the concept of hell was made up long after Jesus was gone. I don’t know of the origins of hell according to the magic carpet cult, but I’m sure its discovery was likewise arbitrary and capricious.

she most certainly is, darling

Oh, and Arsalan, isn’t Craig Murray going to hell? What about the vast majority of British people you deal with on a daily basis? Eternal damnation for everyone?

I appear to have insulted Alan Campbell M.P. wrongly. I didn’t know this AC was just a vermicious troll. The M.P. would no doubt have been careful not to offend his election de-votees, if he has any.

Trolls, sit down and sit still for a couple of seconds.

The Gospels say and the Qur’an repeats that all actions are initiated by the heart. If what is in your heart is belief in God, then what follows in the actions will be good. on the other hand, garbage in – garbage out.

However much the people of the UK, US and IS try to disguise themselves as peace-loving human-loving, well-wishers to all beings, their actions at the present time against the Muslims, mean that whatever they believe in is wrong.

Trolls with funny hats on, making faces, or even faeces, at anybody who criticises the countries that have committed these crimes on the innocent,

will not undo the crimes, nor undo the memory of previous crimes against the innocents by previous generations from those countries, Native Indians, Africans, Asian Indians, Chinese etc.

The people of those countries have to change what is in their hearts. If salt loses its flavour, with what will you salt it? It’s just a matter of how long the people of these countries committing crimes want to sit with the Trolls and scoff at their critics. Nobody is going to take seriously countries or people who commit these crimes. Rome now is ruled by a buffoon. Greece is bankrupt. Take a lesson from history. One day soon London and Washington and Tel Aviv are going to be laughing stocks, because they had civilisation and wealth and they drifted into thuggery and misery.

Craig, the vast majority of people in the UK and the rest of humanity will be judged according to their deeds and creed according to the knowledge God gave them.

Craig is a man who admits his sins, and admits they are wrong, so I pray that God forgives him for all his wrongs, and I’m sure he prays for forgiveness too.

I can’t speak for craig, because I can’t see in to his heart. Unlike you I believe he is a good person, because he choose to choose right over his Job, for this he will be rewarded.

From what you write, I can see that you do not have a good bone in your body.

I don’t pray that you and your Alan will be guided.

You are people who support unjust wars in which you are too cowardly to fight.

I think I have given you enough attention for today. So write what you like. When you are in your grave you will answer for every letter you type.

Some people write against evil, such as craig, for that they will be rewarded, you and your Alan are people who write in support of evil and for that you will be punished.

And as you and your alan have stated, you do so because you do not believe in the next life, or its punishment.

Well if you are right, you can be as evil as you like, and have nothing to fear.

But I believe you are wrong.

“The Gospels say and the Qur’an repeats that all actions are initiated by the heart. If what is in your heart is belief in God, then what follows in the actions will be good. on the other hand, garbage in – garbage out.”

So rational thought and science have no role to play and all those have no belief in God are just trolls with nothing to contribute.

One characteristic of Rome, Greece, London, Washington and Tel Aviv is of course that they all belong to democracies which, despite their imperfections, do allow their imperfect citizens freedom of thought and expression and choice as to how they are governed.

Arsalan

You of course don’t need to account for your actions on this earth or to provide any evidence to support your ridiculous assertions because you know you are right and because you think you will receive your reward for doing your masters (presumed) work in the next world. Prepare to be disappointed if you are wrong – fortunately you will never have to apologise if you are.

Arsalan

You of course don’t need to account for your actions on this earth or to provide any evidence to support your ridiculous assertions because you know you are right and because you think you will receive your reward for doing your masters (presumed) work in the next world. Prepare to be disappointed if you are wrong – fortunately you will never have to apologise if you are.

Arsalan

You of course don’t need to account for your actions on this earth or to provide any evidence to support your ridiculous assertions because you know you are right and because you think you will receive your reward for doing your masters (presumed) work in the next world. Prepare to be disappointed if you are wrong – fortunately you will never have to apologise if you are.

Now, when when uses the renowned term “democracy” one needs to use it with circumspection and a touch of humility.

Democracy as a form of government, has, I believe, only really been practiced a handful of times, and usually for a very brief time period indeed, we are talking about decades here, not centuries.

Merely adopting some of the characteristics of democracy, calling oneself a democracy… doesn’t, in fact, make ones society a democracy in reality. For, in a real democracy, society is not just ruled by the people, but power and wealth are also in the hands of the people. A non-egalitarian society, with all that this implies, cannot be classified as a democracy. Democracy’s core is the equal distribution of power among all the citizens, otherwise one has not just an imperfect democracy, but an inverted and perverted democracy. Furthermore, one either has real democracy, or one doesn’t. It’s a bit like virginity, one either is, or one isn’t.

Israel, of course, is a strange kind of democracy. It’s a rigged democracy which favours one particular ethnic group in a grotesquely disproportionate way, given them power and exclunding others, tipping the ethnic balance in their favour. For example, what kind of a democracy would Israel be if the millions of Palestinians who were driven out of their homes were allowed to return, which they have an undisputed right to under international law, and these millions of Palestinian/Israeli new citizens were given equal voting rights? Israel’s ruling ethnic group, Israeli Jews, would suddenly be in a minority and Israel’s democracy would be turned on its head. So, Israel, if it was a real democracy, for all its people, which includes of course the Palestinian refugees, would change dramatically.

Obviously Israel cannot have this kind of democracy, for all its people, because this real democracy would undermine the undemocratic rule and power of the minority ethnic group who control the disputed and occupied territories.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/boycott_israel.jpg

Mary, that list is HILARIOUS! Like anything will come of it – HA! And why the creator would chose to single out certain companies is not explained. Just too funny.

But please Mary feel free to boycott all the medical devices coming out of Israel.

Stephen,

I can’t speak for Rome, Greece, Washington and Tel Aviv, but London seems to take as little notice of its ‘citizens’ as it can get away with, and although its direct suppression of free speech is minimal, its media more than makes up for that by amplifying only certain, carefully chosen voices.

I have heard that sort of infantile response before – Israhell is the fount of all knowledge etc. So much so that the Palestinians have 100% access to medical treatment and facilities?

Another chart for you to look at – what the mad men are spending on the military. You cannot use the word ‘defence’ as all the operations are offensive and destructive.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1322.aspx

The boycotts are working in case you did not know, especially the academic one by BRICUP which makes them hopping mad (they do not like exclusion) and that of the produce grown on stolen Palestinian land and labelled wrongly.

TARJ as I have advised you before.

That was a link to the Network Rail fascists who are trying to break the union, just like little Willie Walsh (on his £800,000 pa) with the BA cabin crew.

This is the correct link

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/03/26/comparing-military-spending/

So sorry.

Why do “liberals” put so much emphasis on freedom of thought and expression? I’m all for these things, but I often wonder about them. Is freedom of thought and expression, in a free and open society, really the core value of democracy?

Are these core freedoms just an excuse, a sop, a way of diverting attention from less abstract and concrete freedoms? Like freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from exploitation, freedom from homelessness… If one put these economic freedoms at the top of the list, the United States, which is probably seen as the ultimate country in regard to democratic freedoms, it would suddenly be re-defined as an extremely “unfree” and “undemocratic” society.

Sorry, I’v just remembered this thread isn’t about democracy and freedom, sorry.

It just that I’ fed up with journalists and their freedoms. I was reading the Sunday papers yesterday and it struck me how awful they all were. What a load of rubbish. So many fucking words and so little substance.

They remind me of one big paper, with a pile of supplements. I just don’t really see the differences between them. There are differences, but how wide a spectrum of views are there really? For example the consensus line on Iran seems pretty clear. They all, more or less, seem extremely enamoured with Obama and his policies. There’s a lot of superficial criticism and stuff, but very little examination of fundamental, structural, issues. The economic coverage is appallingly bad. They all seem very anti trade union. Ordinary people are regarded mostly with contempt and their views and attitudes ridiculed.

Wintour is a highly paid cunt, but then the “ruling class”, and I suppose I should know, pay themselves very well and have a narcissistic regard for their own worth and abilities.

Journalists are a form of priesthood, spreading a form of secular religion or propaganda. Our freedom to think and express ourselves is severely circumscribed, chanelled and controlled. Of course our journalists and media are most definitely “not free” at all. Anyone who seriously believes this cannot be serious.

I know journalists who would love to write articles on a whole range of issues, but they don’t dare submit them, because they are fully aware that their editors would never print them.

This gets to the core issue. We live in a kind of society that on the surface appears to be incredibly free and open, yet this is only on the surface. It’s not openly totalitarian like 1984. It’s much more subtle and effective, yet the levels of control might actually be worse and more destructive, because we have come to admire and love our chains, our cells, and worst of all our jailers too.

As a former Catholic I was interested in the following (I wasn’t even allowed to read the Bible – it had to be “interpreted” by the church):

Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

“Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages, which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

“Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

“By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” he says. “Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide.”

(continues)

——————————

In the present “War OF Terror” it has suited warmongers to quote apparently bloodthirsty passages from the Quran, and use them to “prove” that Muslims (all 1.6 billion of them) want either to impose Islam on us, or chop our heads off as we lie like babes in our beds. I have been told as much in plain English by idiotic, brainwashed, clods, online.

Mocking Islam when the Catholic Church is on the point of falling asunder because of the covering up of criminal activity, and the Pope talks about “malicious rumours” despite having decreed (in Latin) that such criminal abuse be covered up and kept secret, has to be the absolute height of folly and hypocrisy.

Meanwhile “Christians” in the USA sneer at and mock the deaths of Muslims in countries they cannot find on a world map, and see no need to count their bodies. “Collateral damage” has no name and no family — and is not listed in the Guardian under “casualties in Afghanistan” when they tweet figures on Twitter.

I have no time for the alan campbells (or the Larries or the Stephens) who come here to incite anger, hostility, and divisiveness. Their motive is not peace, but the spread of hatred.

“Meanwhile “Christians” in the USA sneer at and mock the deaths of Muslims in countries they cannot find on a world map”

What the fuck are you talking about?

I’ve never heard this happen once.

Even Pat Robertson, who makes it a habit of saying the worst things that are said by Christians, never said this (at least I don’t think so).

So once again you’re just making shit up dreoilin. You’re anti-American obsession is making you nuttier and nuttier every day.

Clark

I purposedly said that the democracies listed were imperfect – but if you think that the Governmental systems in most Islamic states are any better then you are free to go and live there instead. Unfortunately, I think you will find the same rights do not apply when you get there.

“Mocking Islam when the Catholic Church is on the point of falling asunder because of the covering up of criminal activity,”

Yeah, the Catholics are often a horrible lot as well, but I’ve never heard a Catholic try to convert me. Certainly not at this website. If a Catholic did try to push his religion here, I’d certainly mock him.

And, dreoilin, isn’t it about time for the Irish government to rid itself of Catholic nonsense? What a fucked up society you live in – far more respect for a fascist in Rome than a woman’s right to chose.

Writeman

“Like freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from exploitation, freedom from homelessness… If one put these economic freedoms at the top of the list, the United States, which is probably seen as the ultimate country in regard to democratic freedoms, it would suddenly be re-defined as an extremely “unfree” and “undemocratic” society.”

And which countries would you put at the top of list in addressing economic freedoms – just a guess but I’ll think you’l find that they democracies and at the top end of the scale in terms of political freedom as well. And if the US is so bad in addressing economic freedoms, as you say, why do so many people want to emmigrate there?

The another nice thing about democracies is that you can at least complain – put perhaps rather than criticising the least worst system you could enlighten us as to the superior system that you have in mind?

Larry

The Pope may be many things but he isn’t a fascist. Saddam, Armadinnerjacket, Assad, Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were/are fascists – you devalue the term is you apply to everyone you don’t like.

Stephen,

Yeah, you’re right; I was just typing fast while working. I was thinking of his childhood. Now apparently others, including his parents, refused to sign up – but, it doesn’t seem right to call him a fascist.

A Puppy Called Puberty

by Adrian Mitchell

It was like keeping a puppy in your underpants

A secret puppy you weren’t allowed to show to anyone

Not even your best friend or your worst enemy

You wanted to pat him, stroke him, cuddle him

All the time you weren’t supposed to touch him.

He only slept for five minutes at a time

Then he’d suddenly perk up his head

In the middle of school medical inspection

And always on bus rides.

So you had to climb down from the upper deck

All bent double to smuggle the puppy off the bus

Without the buxon conductress spotting

Your wicked and ticketless stowaway.

Jumping up, wet-nosed, eagerly wagging-

He only stopped being a nuisance

When you were alone together

Pretending to be doing your homework

But really gazing at each other

Through hot and laxy daydreams.

Of those beautiful schoolgirls on the bus

With kittens bouncing in their sweaters.

By Adrian Mitchell

It was like keeping a puppy in your underpants

A secret puppy you weren’t allowed to show to anyone

Not even your best friend or your worst enemy

You wanted to pat him, stroke him, cuddle him

All the time you weren’t supposed to touch him.

He only slept for five minutes at a time

Then he’d suddenly perk up his head

In the middle of school medical inspection

And always on bus rides.

So you had to climb down from the upper deck

All bent double to smuggle the puppy off the bus

Without the buxon conductress spotting

Your wicked and ticketless stowaway.

Jumping up, wet-nosed, eagerly wagging-

He only stopped being a nuisance

When you were alone together

Pretending to be doing your homework

But really gazing at each other

Through hot and laxy daydreams.

Of those beautiful schoolgirls on the bus

With kittens bouncing in their sweaters.

A Puppy Called Puberty

It was like keeping a puppy in your underpants

A secret puppy you weren’t allowed to show to anyone

Not even your best friend or your worst enemy

You wanted to pat him, stroke him, cuddle him

All the time you weren’t supposed to touch him.

He only slept for five minutes at a time

Then he’d suddenly perk up his head

In the middle of school medical inspection

And always on bus rides.

So you had to climb down from the upper deck

All bent double to smuggle the puppy off the bus

Without the buxon conductress spotting

Your wicked and ticketless stowaway.

Jumping up, wet-nosed, eagerly wagging-

He only stopped being a nuisance

When you were alone together

Pretending to be doing your homework

But really gazing at each other

Through hot and laxy daydreams.

Of those beautiful schoolgirls on the bus

With kittens bouncing in their sweaters.

By Adrian Mitchell

This entire “least worst” argument is, I think, a kind of diversion. It’s similar to the idea one often hears that it’s preferable to vote for the better of two evils in relation to the choices we are supposed to have; only one is still voting for “evil” isn’t one? How much choice is really involved in this kind of system?

Is, for example, the United States, in reality a one-party state or is there a plurality of parties? I believe it’s a one-party state, with three factions competing for power with each other. It’s similar to the system one had in Britain in the nineteenth century, when one could choose between the Whigs and the Tories. The system that existed before the rise of Social Democracy. The system one has effectively returned to today. A twin-party system.

Whether people actually want this kind of “democracy” is a large question to get into here though.

The system I’d like to see doesn’t exist and arguably never will, but at least I know it. I’m not deluding myself into imagining we live in a democracy, when we so clearly do not. Call it by it’s real name at least, but surely we can drop the democratic fairytale stuff?

We live in a society whic is ruled by an elite. They created it and still control it. People like my family I suppose. My lot looked after their hands very well, up to a point. We did it because it was clearly in our interests to do so. Give a little, so you don’t risk losing it all, as one of my ancestors used to say. He built homes and schools for his workers, but he made damn sure they learnt the correct ideas in his schools!

It’s not so much that my family were hypocrites, but they were honest about the system they helped create, at least in private, they had few illusions, especially about the nature of the “democracy” they promoted. It was a form of democracy that protected their control of power in society, not a democracy that chalenged it. It was a type of democracy that cemented elite rule, at the same time that it appeared to be replacing it. It was a conjuring trick. My great grandfather was, after all, a bit of an amateur magican.

So once again you’re just making shit up dreoilin. You’re anti-American obsession is making you nuttier and nuttier every day.

Posted by: Larry

You don’t get around much online, you poor sod.

writerman, once again a person at Craig Murray’s blog has turned out to be a fool. Have you noticed the political disagreements that have been occurring in America?

dreoilin, do you have to constantly turn your attention to America because your own country will not allow you to have basic reproductive rights?

Larry,

Of course there are political disagreements between the factions, but they aren’t real. It’s a form of ritual.

Larry, please learn to moderate yourself, or join a moderated board. It makes me cross, on everyone’s behalf, and it is boring. So boring I nearly used caps in a post (for ‘boring’) for the first time ever, fancy that.

Larry,

Don’t you have an AIPAC rally to attend?

Hilarious that you don’t seem to mind the anti-Jew hatred, and the Muslim proselytizing

Somewhat off topic (and I apologise if this has already been discussed) but I would like to know what Craig (and the local commentariat) think of the ex-FCO “wunderkind” Rory Stewart. My impression is that he is an insider masquerading as an outsider. I arrived at this conclusion after listening to him give a talk about Afghanistan, posted on the Guardian today, about the need neither to escalate or pull out but to maintain our presence. It seems he also was a supporter of the invasion of Iraq. This fellow seems to bend with the wind which means he stands a good chance of becoming PM one day. What is the general verdict on this guy?

dreoilin, I reckon the madman (can’t remember his name) who sang ‘bomb bomb bomb Iran’ was in essence mocking the deaths of people, yes.

Very interesting about the Old Testament. It’s always bothered me. And I’ve just found this – does it sound familiar to anyone?

If [the city] accepts your terms of peace and surrenders to you, then all the people in it shall serve you at forced labor. If it does not submit to you peacefully, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword. You may, however, take as your booty the women, the children, livestock, and everything else in the town, all its spoil. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you. (Deut. 20:11-14)

I’m agnostic, thank God.

Writerman: it doesn’t seem to have worked for your family though; they sound like they’ve been taken over, by a corporation, possibly? On the other hand, if they are still in charge, could you ask them to do something?

While Larry digs up evidence of that “anti-Jew hatred”, I’d like to ask him how he feels about having a vice-president who is a self-proclaimed Zionist.

Others -

Apologies. I found an early thread on Rory Stewart which, I’m pleased to say, confirms my suspicions. But I’d really love to know more about this greasy fellow. And I’m not talking about a Wintouresque summary!

“Hilarious that you don’t seem to mind the anti-Jew hatred, and the Muslim proselytizing”

Read any of the threads which deal with those issues and take that back.

“…a vice-president who is a self-proclaimed Zionist.”

Presumably every President and VP since it has been relevant has believed in the right of Israel to exist.

So why the fuck does it matter that Biden says he’s a Zionist?

Fulano, perhaps you weren’t around here when the Jews got blamed for the World Trade Center falling, the underwear bomber, etc.

“I’ve never heard this happen once.

Even Pat Robertson, who makes it a habit of saying the worst things that are said by Christians, never said this (at least I don’t think so).”

Solipsism. Yours is the only true experience, no-one else’s counts. This might make you feel good, but you can hardly expect it to convince anybody else, can you ?

Oh, and *spellingflame*, of course.

Take it back, Larry.

Richard Robinson,

If it were a real phenomenon, it would be fairly easy for dreoilin to substantiate the contention that “Meanwhile “Christians” in the USA sneer at and mock the deaths of Muslims in countries they cannot find on a world map”

It’s just not been my experience.

And I can’t prove that that’s not the case, just like I can’t prove that pigs don’t fly.

I think you’ve got the concept of burden of proof turned upside down.

Technicolour,

Larry won’t take anything back. He is here to do damage, not engage in debate. And there are others now, too. Remember when you ticked me off and admired Larry’s “mischief”?

tech

leave them, really the only thing this discussion has shown is that Patrick Wintour is a scintillating wit and brilliantly independent-minded analyst compared with these multi-headed, low-life trolls.

Larry,

“The Jews” have not been blamed for anything here. Zionists, The Mossad, and a Jewish organised crime syndicate have been blamed for things, but not “The Jews”, who are only ever mentioned by you. You are a liar.

Stephen wrote:

“One characteristic of Rome, Greece, London, Washington and Tel Aviv is of course that they all belong to democracies which, despite their imperfections, do allow their imperfect citizens freedom of thought and expression and choice as to how they are governed. ”

Why end your list of secular democracies there?

Why not include Nazi Germany?

Well they do have a lot income with Washington and London. Like Washington and London, their leader was elected, but not by the nations Hitler invaded. Not by the Poles or the Russians, just by the German master race.

And the Iraqis and Afghans didn’t elect the Americans and British who invaded their countries.

Yes despite their imperfections Germany choose to exterminate their Jews in concentration camps, Rome choose to exterminate Libyans during the same period in concentration camps, America choose to exterminate the natives slightly before in concentration camps they call reservations, and Tel Aviv choose to exterminate Palestinians in concentration camps they call the west bank and Gaza.

You justify this with the slogan Democracy.

My reply to you is stuff your democracy up your arse, we prefer our religion of Islam which forbids us from exterminating you in this way.

Concentration camps and genocide are part of your culture, your history and your democracy. We prefer God’s guidance.

writerman

you are right, Israel is a very strange democracy.

One in which elections are wan, by expelling or exterminating all those who vote against.

A nation where Jews are welcomed from all over the world as citizens, while Arabs who still have the Keys to their houses aren’t allowed back, to make sure only Jews can effect the election. A nation where which claims the west bank and grants all Jews their citizenship and voting rights but refuses such rights to the Palestinians who have always lived there.

But Zionists can call it democracy if they like, even though no one else would. If that is democracy, it just means democracy isn’t always a good thing.

If Israel was a real democracy, it would not make its actions right.

Killing brown babies to steal kidneys would still be equally wrong no matter how much people voted in the government that does it.

mary

Thanks for pasting that. And it does work.

The proof that it works is Larry saying that it doesn’t.

Israel is a parasite economy.

It doesn’t really produce much. What it does it re-exports.

Israeli goods do not need to pay import tax to enter the EU. So Israel buys stuff produced by poor nations, and re brands them as made in Israel then exports to EU to avoid import taxes.

Israel’s main income is this Tax fraud.

And every penny you stop from getting in to Israel might be the penny needed to buy a bullet to kill a baby.

And Larry we all know what medical stuff Israel exports.

And here is the link to it:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html

I don’t want a Kidney that used to be in a Palestinian boy, and neither does mary!

It might mean we die, but we are willing to accept that because we don’t want a Palestinian boy to be shoot for us to live.

Clark, no I don’t remember ticking you off. Must have over-keyboarded, I am sorry. Have nothing but respect for your posts.

It’s not up to me at all, natch, but I could tolerate Larry as a kind of Antisemite Watch. There’ve been some virulently anti-semitic posters cropping up all over the web, using Zionism as a thin disguise for bigotry. They always get ignored or outdiscussed here, and could through no stretch of the imagination be said to represent the board. When Larry started posting, back in January, I assumed he wouldn’t know that.

He must know that now. But his attacks on the board and on individuals, continue. It seems, as other people’ve pointed out, a strange way of getting anyone to love ‘America’.

“Why end your list of secular democracies there?

Why not include Nazi Germany?”

First of all not all the democracies listed are secular.

Second, Hitler came to power on a minority vote in 1933 and then proceeded to set up a one party state and held no further elections – which sounds pretty similar to some of your friends and heroes doesn’t it. And while you are it I don’t think you will find Mussolin’s democratice credentials were too hot.

And I don’t justify any exterminations in the name of democracy – full stop – it’s just the least worst system we have. I certainly haven’t heard any proposals from you for anything better, and I think you may find that it is catching on with Iraquis and Iranians who are fed up with dictaorships foreign and domestic.

In the meantime can I suggest you go and hide your ignorance where the sun doesn’t shine.

Larry is very unlikely to be from from St. Louis. Take a look at the timings of his posts. St. Louis is GMT -6 hours. That would mean some of his posts were made at 5:30 am, others at 6 am. But if he was from Israel, or stolen Palestinian then the timings make much more sense!

Can someone check the timings of the other Zionist posts against time Zones?

“‘The Jews’ have not been blamed for anything here.”

Now you seem both blind and stupid.

I’m not trying to get anyone to love America, you silly gooses.

You’re not smartest lot, are you?

“Larry is very unlikely to be from from St. Louis. Take a look at the timings of his posts. St. Louis is GMT -6 hours. That would mean some of his posts were made at 5:30 am, others at 6 am. But if he was from Israel, or stolen Palestinian then the timings make much more sense!

Can someone check the timings of the other Zionist posts against time Zones?”

Arsalan, there’s also the possibility that I wake up real early. But of course there’s still the possibility that this is another Jew conspiracy.

Clark, does this one count?

Writerman

“This entire “least worst” argument is, I think, a kind of diversion.”

“The system I’d like to see doesn’t exist and arguably never will, but at least I know it.”

Well in the meantime while you get around to defining your still undefined Nirvana and thinking about how it could be implemented – those of us who live on this planet (and are at best agnostic about an afterlife) will continue to be diverted with looking for the least worst alternative.

Also good that you are able to express your universally negative views while you are working everything out isn’t it – another advantage of our awful democracies!

Technicolour,

Larry would be utterly counterproductive as an anti-semite watch, because he uses anti-semitism as a blunt instrument in his attempt to bring this site into disrepute.

Larry doesn’t want anyone to love anything. There is no love in anything I’ve seen posted here by Larry. Larry is exclusively critical, never constructive. Diverse people come together in friendship here. That is Larry’s target. Divide and rule is a principle. Larry is an agent of division.

I think Craig might be able to resolve this.

Craig does your webpage log IP addresses and servers?

If so can you please check if Larry and the other Zionists who always seem to post at the same times share the same IP address.

And can you check whether they post from an Israeli server?

Larry do I believe you wake up early enough to post here at 5:30 am? Even if they pay you a lot, I don’t think so. sleep is worth more than money.

you’d have to worship money a lot for that sort of dedication to harrasing this site.

Writerman,

Good comments but you’re wrong about George Galloway being axed from Talk-Sport. A general election is near and our parliamentary rules forbid him, or any other MP, from engaging in “free” publicity in the media. He will be back on Talk-Sport after the election.

Of course Writerman is wrong about that. I’m an American and I figured that out in about 1 minute. I was actually hoping that Galloway got fired! But, no, he really wasn’t – seems that you have the same general rules as we do over here about such things.

Obama during his flying visit to Afghanistan:

“I’m very pleased to see that there’s been some excellent efforts in terms of partnering Afghan national security forces with U.S. and coalition forces. We think that points to the direction that all of us are interested in a day when Afghanistan is going to be able to provide for its own security but continue a long-term strategic partnership with the United States.”

http://tinyurl.com/y892gel

Long term. Strategic.

———————–

One does wonder if Larry has checked out the Rott to look at my “lies”. But one is not particularly bothered one way or another. Larry has called me a liar about 5-6 times now, and not proved it once.

———————-

“He will be back on Talk-Sport after the election.”

Good! I’m sure he has flaws, like everyone else, but I like his guts and outspoken-ness.

I have an Idea!

If it is true that LArry and his latest incarnations are Israeli and here to divert for that reason. We should respond by attacking Israel, even if we weren’t going to.

So by posting here, instead of stopping attacks on Israel with their screams of antisemitism they will cause it!

Lets see how long they keep their Jobs after that?

Anyway, I am not Larry so I am going to sleep now. Good bye,

Don’t forget the new rule, everytime they shout antisemitism, attack Israel. Everytime they try to divert a topic, attack Israel.

I’m new here, is it the case that this Larry fellow is really the alter-ego of Craig? Just put up to stir up the debate a litte? Great stuff !

Why would I go to that site, dreoilin?

You can find anything on the Internet, you silly goose.

For instance, idiots here believe that the Twin Towers were pre-wired with explosives.

You can find that same attitude expressed at stormfront (on the wacky far right) and Citizens for Legitimate Government (on the wacky far left).

I’m willing to bet that there are far, far more sites dedicated to space aliens and Bigfoot than what you pointed out.

I’m still wondering what it’s like to live in a country without reproductive rights for women. Apparently the Irish are no longer allowed to blaspheme – did you get that law changed yet? I sure hope so.

Arsalan, like most truthers, you’re clearly a victim of narcissistic personality disorder. Get help.

Clark: agreed. Still, he’s not doing very well at it!

Are you kidding me? I’m in the best in my department at this!

Dreoilin,

I’ve found loads of that stuff too, quite by accident; well, almost – I found a fair bit when I went looking for Larry at other sites. There is plenty on the comments of UK newspapers, too, especially the Daily Mail.

dreoilin, I just took a look at the website you linked and yes it’s sick.

Are you so stupid that you think that’s in any way mainstream? Or even discussed in the mainstream? These people don’t count.

And they have more in common with the nutcases at this website.

Larry says:

“Presumably every President and VP since it has been relevant has believed in the right of Israel to exist.

So why the fuck does it matter that Biden says he’s a Zionist?”

Because when your dumb VP boasts that he is a Zionist, Netanyahu and his thugs get into their heads that they can get away with expanding their stinking settlements which even you must have noticed, Larry, is a pretty serious obstacle to peace.

It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it? Even in St. Louis.

“So once again you’re just making shit up dreoilin.”

–Larry

“dreoilin, I just took a look at the website you linked and yes it’s sick.”

–Larry

So I’m a liar, am I.

“These people don’t count.”

Unfortunately, yes, they do count (at least up to ten). They’re part of the same Boo-Hoo-Becky crowd who carry guns to political rallies, or shoot out the windows of Democrat offices when they lose the health care vote. Brownshirt thugs. They are the crazies of the USA, who unfortunately have votes as well as guns, and aspire to put Ms Palin in the White House.

You’re a sad little man, devoid of integrity and almost devoid of intelligence. You’re somewhere in your mid-forties, with the prerequisite Harley, and nothing better to do than lob verbal mud pies off the top of your head. Giggle. Throw the word ‘liar’ around a few times interspersed with ‘anti-semitic’ …

Yep, I’ve met you before.

So then Larry..if everyone on this webiste is thick and a nutjob why do you persist in visiting/provoking.disrupting?

It’s either because>

1. You’re an intellectual arrogant snob-tho that can’t be true cos your posts are way too dumb.

2. You’re a sadist who gets off trying to feel superior-tho that cant be true cos your posts are so dumb.

£ Or you’re paid to,ahem,provoke and disrupt-which is most likely cos your posts are way too dumb.

So either way matey..whether you’re a Jew,Zionist,Muslim,Hindu,Chrisitan,Atheist,Alien or whatever…why don’t you just piss off?

You bore.

It seems I have rejoined The Working Class. I have been working quite hard today. The entire point of this is to Make Money.

I guess I must have become a Capitalist rather than a Soft Left Wing Liberal, who Spends All Day Thinking, and Maybe Trying To Teach But Never Actually Doing Any Real Work…

That is To Make Things Work

Oh Fuck – I can see that has instantly pissed off the Liberal Elite.

Anyway My Lad Hired The Truck and I Drove It (Because He Ain’t 25 and keeps Crashing His Sports Car)

The New Place isn’t Ready Yet

This kind of stuff has happenned before, and most of it, we eventually took to the tip and I had to explain to the Bin Man (reclamation supervisor) that it was my Son’s hobby and he had collected all this computer scrap in his bedroom in pursuit of it – or he wouldn’t let us dump it for free.

So now we have got even more of it…

Its a UPS

It weighs an absolute fucking ton…

You have no idea how heavy it is.

It has an extremely large number of 12 volt car type batteries in it.

So I’ve also ordered a powerful battery charger.

If the batteries are O.K., which they might be, then my Son has bought a bargain

If all the batteries are totally fucked and they will be, if they are not recharged soon, then the hardware they came in will still be worth more than he paid

You see if you are a kid starting you own business up from scratch, then you have got to take some chances and do a lot of physical work…

Dismantling and testing all the components, and replacing the ones that are faulty, and then rebuilding it…

You see, you can’t trust anyone not to fuck up…

So if for example their is a Power Cut…

You know like we got in the 70′s and where most of the World is now experiencing partly because of this Global Warming ACT ON CO2 Nonsense

You have got to provide cover such that when the Power Goes Off Everything Continues as Normal

Its Called an Uninterruptible Power Supply

If Plan “A” Fucks Up We Can Always Try a Windmill

Tony

This seems to have got them going on Alternet (from this morning). I write much better when I am sober.

Whilst some of their policies may be considered insane, providing they do not adversely affect anyone outside of their State borders, don’t the people of Utah have the democratic right to make their own laws and govern themselves as they see fit?

Why such support for the Central Fascist Federal Dictatorship who’s overriding policies are based on Control by Fear, War and Economic Impoverishment at the behest of an International Controlling Financial Corporate Elite?

If for example California wants to legalise dope, and Utah wants to impose the Death Penalty for it, isn’t that up to them?

Presumably all the Utah stoners could move to California, and swap places with the Californian’s who prefer Utah’s laws?

Isn’t that what Democracy is about, rather than Dictatorship?

Local Communities democratically decide how they want to live by the laws they create themselves, rather than having a Dictator from thousands of miles away impose them who has no understanding of local issues.

Tony

larry – “I think you’ve got the concept of burden of proof turned upside down.”

I think I have a different idea of it from yours, right enough.

I *don’t* think that your ignorance of something-or-other proves it doesn’t happen. Nor, for that matter, did I see you ask for any proof, in the 15 minutes between dreoilins comment and your reply (maybe you did it telepathically, like the way you can often tell us what Craig thinks of ‘everyone here’ ?). Nor, if she happened to be provably incorrect (which, in my experience, she isn’t, I’ve seen such comments, too) does that prove her a nutter.

But then, as I remember, we differ in our notions of ‘research’ as well.

But, on the bright side, it’s several years since I’ve heard anyone advocate the nuking of Iraq for their ‘ingratitude’ at being invaded. Relative sweetness and light abounds, isn’t everything wonderful.

With apologies to everyone else for troll-feeding. It’s very likely a mistake, the competition for the last word is usually won by the least clear-thinking.

Once again, everyone is starting their posts with “Larry” this or “Larry” that, which only gives the sad bastard ever more cause to pleasure himself.

Jeez – reply _about_ a troll, but never to one, and only then if you must. I think Arsalan’s idea is the best of all so far, every time of of these shrill “anti-semite!” charges come about, reply with a post of the latest atrocity being committed by Israel, and say yeah, it’s a real shame they give real anti-semites such an easy ride by making the case for them.

Israel is pretty anti-Jewish too, given the name of a beautiful 4000 year old religion is being dragged through pig-slurry by this thuggish 60-year old country, which also lends itself as a tool of the worst excesses of western imperialism.

As far as Israeli atrocities to report on are concerned, there’s no danger of running out of material.

However – this is still allowing the troll to wag the blog. And we get the blog a reputation from the swivel eyed “anti-semite” shriekers, none more shrill than the sad Liar from Saint Louis. Just stop making the troll the subject of the blog, by addressing the troll at the start of your post, FFS!

“Wag the blog” is good.

“Just stop making the troll the subject of the blog, by addressing the troll at the start of your post”

He’s not the subject of the blog, he’s a minor irritant. Craig sets the subjects, we, mostly, seem to ignore them. Patrick Wintour, remember him back up there ? I don’t actually have any opinions on the man, I’ve never noticed him (I gave up reading the Garuinda after I read a “lifestyle supplement” article on how “everyone” is putting swimmingpools in their gardens, maybe 15 years back. I’m just not part of their everyone).

But, if I am addressing someone, then yes, that’s how I do it, by putting their name in front of the quote I’m addressing, by way of attribution – because they are who I am speaking to. And I form my ideas of them by the way they deal with that.

Doug,

I think you’ll find that George Galloway’s show has been axed from TalkSport, and he will not be coming back on the airways in anything close to style of his old show.

Obvioulsy, as a sitting MP, his presence on national radio was problematic, but his absence isn’t temporary, far from it. The show, as an independent, republican, radical, island of the coast of Britain, has been permanently wiped of the map. Which is a shame, because it functioned as an alternative space for the disenfranchized, those excluded from the false, psuedo-democratic, Westminster consensus.

Personally, I disagreed with a lot of what Galloway had to say. He was far too Old Labour and middle-of-the-road for me. He wasn’t radical and critical enough. He didn’t follow-through on the logic of his own arguments. But I suppose that just shows how far to the right the ruling political elite in Britain has drifted over the last few decades.

I watched my favourite programme tonight – Secret Millionaire. This time Redcar. I saw many humble people, including the transformed millionaire. The photography was marvellous. 1,600 men lost their jobs at Corus six weeks after the filming finished. I love it because it shows the goodness in the many uncelebrated humans.

Very different from some of the lovelies in Panorama last night – Ms Corben’s tale of the Dubai ‘hit’ = extrajudicial murder. An important point. The sister of the Israeli ‘soldier’ who was shot by Mahbouh showed her extreme satisfaction at his killing. The parents of the Hamas leader (living in a refugee camp incidentally) who was murdered by succinyl choline (probably like Dr Kelly) and then smothered, did not show anger or any need for revenge. Forgiveness is strong in Islam, whereas vengeance is strong in Judaism.

Corbin was Israel friendly throughout. She is married to John Maples MP who is leaving the trough soon. He claimed the Royal Automobile Club in Pall Mall as his principal residence!

http://www.royalautomobileclub.co.uk/guestarea/home.asp

This is John Hilley’s review on Medialens of the Panorama programme -

Corbin’s Panorama film on Dubai murder

Posted by John Hilley on March 29, 2010, 11:31 pm

Yet another shocking report from Jane Corbin.

We get a detailed account of the crime in Dubai and some useful revelations of how the cheated passport holders have all gone to ground as the Israeli state try to cover its tracks. But the film’s subtext is really about suggesting an understandable motive for the murder, traced back to the past killing of an Israeli soldier.

Cue fawning engagement of Mossad and its apologists. There’s not the slightest contextual explanation of Israel’s illegal occupation, the brutal siege of Gaza or the reasons why Palestinians are driven to violent responses.

After her token visit to Gaza, Corbin is back, more homely, in Israel setting the mood of the admiring Israeli public. It’s just like a high-action film plot, we’re told.

Fittingly, Corbin sits nodding and smiling to the ex-Mossad head, like some enthralled movie buff listening to the boasting director of a crime thriller. At no point does she challenge the legitimacy of these actions. There’s no mention of international law. There’s no question posed about Israel’s terrorist conduct in the West Bank/Gaza and around the world, only that of Hamas, replete with all the usual demonic para-militarist imagery.

The implication of the film comes through all too intentionally: he got his rightful comeuppance, a message heavily-laden with the view that Israel is acting in wider, permissible defence of its ‘threatened’ people and state.

Another textbook piece of loaded regurgitation posing as serious, balanced journalism.

John

aa~~

PS Thousands of passports are said to have been copied by Israeli security staff.

Mary

Israel doesn’t only use those stolen passports for killings, they also use them for crimes.

Israel is a gangster republic, full of money laundering and forced prostitution of kidnapped East Europeans.

But the Israeli government says it has changed, every time they get caught.

Everyone knows Israel sells kidneys:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8165607.stm

But few ask where the kidneys comes from.

One of the uses for these fake passports is to smuggle people is to smuggle people in to the country for chop and sell.

I believe if these people were muslims they would defeinitely be branded “terrorists”, but not in this case and with these people:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100330/ap_on_re_us/us_fbi_raids

These war criminals are getting short shift as they move around the world trying to rake in more filthy lucre from their memoirs and their speaking tours.

http://cbs2.com/local/book.signing.karl.2.1598578.html

That should have been short shrift.

dreoilin & others: I think the extreme sites you’re rather visiting (they make me feel too sick, myself) are the modern day equivalent of Bedlam. You know, where people used to visit to see tortured souls writhe and howl.

Sorry, didn’t mean to imply you were like the people who visited Bedlam, though I’m sure you’d have done the people in it good.

Zionist keep saying “We’re not so bad, because we haven’t killed all of them yet”, but the reason they haven’t killed all of them yet is they need Palestinians for slave labour and replacement parts such as Kidneys.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8165607.stm

Have you noticed Larry keeps shouting Kidneys at other people to accuse them of Anti-Semitism.

He doesn’t do it with me because I’m linking to Zionists news agencies such as the BBC and the New York times.

If the Israeli government wants people to stop accusing it of kidney theft they should stop stealing Kidneys.

Arsalan – That is why the sacking of Jenny Tonge by Clegg was so unfair.

This is correspondence between Clegg’s PA and David Halpin on the matter.

http://dhalpin.infoaction.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=2

And something else that we learnt from this thread about Larry and his girl friends.

They all attacked Islam and Muslims on this thread.

I don’t mean attacking people like us who hate Zionism.

They attacked all Muslims, they attacked the Prophet of Islam. And then they scream Anti-Semitism and Jew hater at every opportunity.

And when I pulled them up on this, all of them claimed to be atheists who hate all religions.

and then made fun of Christianity.

These bastards are confused. Do they think we will over look their slander against the Mohummed pbh the Prophet of God because they insult Jesus PBH the Prophet of God too?

Do these Morons think we will over look their insults against the 1/4 of the planet who are Muslim if they follow it up with an insult on the 1/3 of the planet who are Christian?

And then all of them claimed that they are all Atheist, well I knew that already. I have stated many times here that Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. I have always said Zionism is a

branch of Nazism.

Some people say the Zionist ideology is a plagiarism of Nazism.

It is in fact the other way around.

Nazis copied Zionism. The Nazis replaced

Palestine with the father land. Replaced Jews with Germans, replaced Arabs as the population fit for extermination with Jews.

Zionism and Nazism are the same, only a few of the terms have been changed.

That is why I think Craig is wrong to join the Libs.

If they sack a Barones for complaining about Kidney theft, what chance has Craig.

So what will happen if Craig Joins. Will he remain silent every time the Israelis are caught steeling Kidneys, money laundering, stealing passports, spying on allies and selling secrets to enemies , using children as human shields etc etc etc.

Or will he do all their donkey work for them, grant them legitimacy in the eyes of the left during elections, and then sack or sideline him as soon as he says something against Israel?

I would say, it is better to be a no body, than an evil somebody.

Libs are a Zionist party, Non-Zionists who join grant them legitimacy.

tech,

I don’t spend long at those sites, they do my head in. The combination of ignorance and arrogance appalls me. There’s a lot of racism too. Suggesting shooting illegal (Mexican) immigrants at the border and leaving their bodies there to ‘rot as a warning’ is fairly typical.

I have visited the (modern equivalent of) Bedlam but not to look-see. More as a help to the lay chaplain. It’s an education. I have great difficulty in deciding whether mental or physical pain causes the greater suffering, and that is why modern forms of torture (while producing less blood) make me shiver. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed appears to be a mental wreck and there were numerous suicide attempts in Guantanamo (no doubt now continuing in Bagram.)

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but that guy who burned down his house and then flew his plane into the local IRS building in Austin, Texas, has not been labelled a terrorist. He was not a Muslim.

Craig, has anyone sent you a piece of “genuine journalism” by Wintour?

dreoilin – of course you don’t spend equivalent time on the freak sites in your own country.

How’s the reunification effort going?

And what’s it like being subject to Christianity, specifically the Pope?

Dreolin

See my post yesterday at 12:42pm

Since Jesus said ‘turn the other cheek’ Arsalan, I guess you’re encouraged to ignore them? At least, when it comes to childish written insults, surely. The God/ess, if out there, is surely above them.

dreoilin: the US youtube comments are enough for me. I tend to forget that only 50 years ago it was apartheid there.

This Muslim v Christian paradigm is, as Larry would put it, batshit crazy. But I think one more ‘innocent’ reason that the guy wasn’t labelled a terrorist was because he was acting alone? The Earth Liberation Front are seen by the FBI as terrorists, despite never actually having killed anyone.

Meanwhile what happened to the bloke who went mad at the US army HQ, if he did indeed go mad? Where do these stories go?

Arsalan and Mary,

thanks for the links.

Arsalan,

I think it’ll take more than Clegg to keep Craig quiet, but I suppose we’ll see.

Dreoilin,

best wishes to you.

My ex’s family had a friend who was a long- retired UK spy, who since died in his 90′s. When I mentioned to him that I was thinking about becoming a Muslim, he replied that in his opinion, the religion just before Islam was a much better one.

I mention this in case anybody had the impression that UKIS trollism is a new, post-War on Terror phenomenon. Anybody who believes the smokescreen that the UK establishment was not in support of the foundation of the state of Israel, should take note of what this Troll, who was active as a spy in the two world wars, thought of Islam.

The immediate predecessors to Islam were, idol worship in Arabia, sun-worship in Persia, Jesus-worship pbuh in Rome, and polytheism in India etc.

dreoilin: Mental torture or physical torture, either are incredible to contemplate; more incredible still is the fact they are now openly and freezingly discussed in memos and reports and mainstream columns. What happened after the outcry over Bruce ‘torture the children’ Anderson, I wonder. Nothing, possibly?

A report from the EDL says they are now going after trade unionists as well; any memories there? I remember old people in Germany saying that they simply ‘didn’t know’ about the Nazis. We don’t have that excuse.

“When I mentioned to him that I was thinking about becoming a Muslim, he replied that in his opinion, the religion just before Islam was a much better one.”

I think he was suggesting that you stay where you were rather than convert to Islam or one of its predecessors – you dolt!

anno: perhaps some people just don’t feel drawn to a patriarchal religion which tells them what to do.

Fulano asked about Rory Stewart. Like the afore-mentioned spy, Stewart is a fully paid up spy of this generation. His value to the Tories is that he knows the UKIS establishment’s 100 year forward plan. His presence as such an obvious spy trying for parliament, tells me that the powers that be are planning a long term swing to Tory rule, like Norwich North. Dismore, Blears and Straw can all proceed to ennoblement for their services to dismantling the reputation of Great Britain.

I also received confirmation of my opinion about the election result by listening to Tony Blair reading from a script which had been written by the likes of Patrick Wintour, in exactly his style. Guaranteed that if Blair presents a good case for New Labour, because he is an absolute liar, you have to reverse it. The result of the election will be a crunching Tory win. Then the fat bankers can slowly buy up and re-capitalise this country under the miracle saviour Tories.

On another post, Mark Golding asked about the future of UK foreign policy. Rory Stewart is your man. The froth of illuminati madness shimmers in his eyes. Destiny is engraved on his face like Hitler’s. His speech, ‘ all I want to do is be of service to my country ‘ like Lawrence of Arabia, is the speech of Shaytan. Be very careful about this man.

Zionism was invented by racist Antisemitism who wanted to isolate Jews from themselves.

They wanted to make a Jewish homeland, as a place where countries can permanently exile their Jewish populations from themselves.

It really has more to do with hated of Jews than hatred of Muslims because the first countries proposed as Jewish states were not Muslim countries.

The UK offered Uganda as a homeland. They planned to slaughter all the blacks, to turn it in to a land with out a people for a people without a land.

The Nazi Germans proposed doing the same thing in Madagascar.

After the defeat of the Khilafah, they chopped it up in to little bits and proposed Palestine as the Jewish homeland. The UK disarmed the Palestinians, heavily armed a bunch of Zionists so the Zionists can turn the heavily populated Palestine in to a land without people for a people without a land.

Yes you are right this stuff has been going on for a long time. But Muslims are not the only victims. Australia, Canada, New Zealand and America all had their populations exterminated so people from Europe in general and the UK in particular can go over there claiming, “I am going to a land without people”.

Tech

With the greatest of respect, mon vieux, you haven’t understood my argument.

This country has a religion. You think that you don’t have a religion, but you do.

It is: 1/ Sin has been abolished.2/ God’s asleep. 3/ Do good, but dont complain if you suffer as a consequence if you do wrong and get discovered. That’s your religion and you believe in it, even though it was invented for you by the patriarchs of the British establishment.

You follow the patriarchs to the letter. The patriarchs of the religion opposite to my religion serve the devil.The patriarchs of my religion serve God, the Living Creator, Controller and All-Seer of human beings. Easy.

Anno, if he was still alive maybe you should have said, “the religion just before Islam was Islam, because Jesus never worshipped himself”

You can really state the same thing for all of the religions you listed.

Jesus wasn’t a Christian as he never worshipped Christ(himself). he worshipped God alone(Islam).

Moses wasn’t a Jew because he never followed the Talmud, instead he followed the laws sent down by God(Islam). Zorastas never worshipped fire, instead he worshipped God alone.

And even the older Hindu scriptures forbid polytheism, call on Monotheism and state the last Prophet will come from Arabia, be named Mohummed, have a mother named Amina and a father named Abdullah.

So he can look at the religion that was there before, and if he is sincere about following it he would follow the part of the Bible where Jesus talks of the Prophet that will come to next. And he would follow it and except that Prophet pbh.

Anno, if he was still alive maybe you should have said, “the religion just before Islam was Islam, because Jesus never worshipped himself”

You can really state the same thing for all of the religions you listed.

Jesus wasn’t a Christian as he never worshipped Christ(himself). he worshipped God alone(Islam).

Moses wasn’t a Jew because he never followed the Talmud, instead he followed the laws sent down by God(Islam). Zorastas never worshipped fire, instead he worshipped God alone.

And even the older Hindu scriptures forbid polytheism, call on Monotheism and state the last Prophet will come from Arabia, be named Mohummed, have a mother named Amina and a father named Abdullah.

So he can look at the religion that was there before, and if he is sincere about following it he would follow the part of the Bible where Jesus talks of the Prophet that will come to next. And he would follow it and accept that Prophet pbh.

Anno, if he was still alive maybe you should have said, “the religion just before Islam was Islam, because Jesus never worshipped himself”

You can really state the same thing for all of the religions you listed.

Jesus wasn’t a Christian as he never worshipped Christ(himself). he worshipped God alone(Islam).

Moses wasn’t a Jew because he never followed the Talmud, instead he followed the laws sent down by God(Islam). Zorastas never worshipped fire, instead he worshipped God alone.

And even the older Hindu scriptures forbid polytheism, call on Monotheism and state the last Prophet will come from Arabia, be named Mohummed, have a mother named Amina and a father named Abdullah.

So he can look at the religion that was there before, and if he is sincere about following it he would follow the part of the Bible where Jesus talks of the Prophet that will come to next. And he would follow it and accept that Prophet pbh.

Sorry about the repeat.

With even greater respect, anno, you have absolutely no idea of my views on, or definition of, sin. If I believed in a God, I would not, in fact, picture him/her/it as permanently ‘asleep’, though I can see they might need some time off. I’m not sure about the last bit; are you referring to hypocrisy?

Has anyone else noticed what I wrote about the timings of Larry’s posts?It isn’t possible for someone from St. Louis to post them. Because St’ Louis is -6 gmt.

It would mean he was posting at 5:30 AM?

If he was in St Louis we would expect some post times to be 1 AM 2 Am and 3 Am GMT which would be 7 pm 8 pm and 9 pm GMT. If anything his post timings indicate he is 2 hours ahead of us.

Meaning Israel!

I can’t have been the only one to have noticed it!

Everyone knows where America is and where Israel is, and that the Sun rises from the East.

Oh maybe not everyone. Not Larry and his girl friends. Otherwise they would have posted at more believable times.

You’re quite possibly right Arsalan, although this blog gets so obsessive I wouldn’t be that surprised at someone posting at 5.30 am. I’m sure I’ve woken up in the small cold hours thinking ‘yes, but…’

Stephen,

I’ve gone to your link. I’m afraid I’m not quite sure why you’re referring me to it.

“I think one more ‘innocent’ reason that the guy wasn’t labelled a terrorist was because he was acting alone?” –technicolour

Not sure. Timothy McVeigh is referred to as an American terrorist, and that’s the title of the book about him.

“Meanwhile what happened to the bloke who went mad at the US army HQ, if he did indeed go mad? Where do these stories go?”

Good question. The general lack of follow up (unless it’s about the McCanns …) is most irritating. Nidal Malik Hasan is due to be tried for multiple murder in a military court. Obama warned Americans against jumping to conclusions about his motives, but he’s been called a “jihadist” all over US blogs.

Clark,

I’m delighted to see you back. You were gone for a while, and I thought it might be permanent. Best wishes to you too!

“A report from the EDL says they are now going after trade unionists as well; any memories there?”–tech

Where? I hope you’re not on about my age again (and it’s not 78).

By the way, you were half-right about the cat — fabulous (aesthetically) and very loyal pal who was with me for 18 years, died of cancer in 2005. BTW, male or female, I also had you pegged as NUJ. I suppose we all have vague mental images of who we’re talking to.

Ok, me gone now.

Arsalan,

You could well be right about the timing. But he could also be on night shift.

gone!

Dreoilin

He could of but we now know that he isn’t because he wasn’t clever enough to think of that.

Instead he said, he wakes up early.

But that doesn’t explain why his final post ends so early, a time when Americans would be coming home from work and switching on their computers.

There is a different in phase of his post indicating a time difference, but it is plus 2 not -6.

Indicating he is in one of the following countries: Egypt, Turkey, South Africa, Finland and Israel.

Now which of these countries do you think someone who hates Muslims and loves Israel so much would come from?

Craig can answer this if his page logs IP addresses and servers of posts.

He could also answer whether the new bunch are just Larry trying to show others share his racism.

Notswithstanding the enourmous respect from yourself technicolour, I was obviously exaggerating in saying that you are a follower of this religion. I apologise for that. Nevertheless I am utterly convinced that this is the basic religion of this country, although you can find Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc as well if you look carefully.

This inverted religion is the one that I was brought up in. Don’t talk about right and wrong. You are forbidden to talk about what other people may or may not have done. Don’t let me catch you doing it again.

What I do know is that this is the religion which my parents, friends, church, medics, schools, colleges, etc have tried to instruct me in from an early age.

Who are you to question your government?

How do you have the arrogance to think you know better than them? Where do find the evidence to criticise from? Why are you wasting your time thinking about right and wrong? What right do you think to suppose that the texts of ancient scriptures have any relevance to our time? How do you know that your propaganda is right and everybody else’s understanding of the world is wrong? Why do you think that we are going to help you, when you bring all these problems of people disagreeing with you on your own shoulders by disagreeing with people all the time?

i.e. Isn’t it obvious to you, YET, that in order to succeed in this world, you have to give up your own opinions and stop winding everybody else up all the time. Yes, my friend, they all, including you, think that Muslims spend our whole time just trying to annoy.

But Allah (swta)gives us a prayer in tHe Qur’an, roughly translated.

Oh Allah forgive us our transgressions outside your commands in our actions, and do not allow us to be just an ANNOYANCE FOR THE OPPRESSORS/DISBELIEVERS, but strengthen our foothold in our positions and give us a great victory soon.

Ameen

Dreolin

Because you asked if anyone had posted in response to Craig’s original challenge/question. Remember Wintour wrote the article in 2003.

The pro-Israel Foreign Office agent I mentioned earlier was called Aubrey Wolton. He told me that he had been active in setting up the Israeli state. He was equally dismissive of Jesus pbuh as of Islam, which is why I was reminded of him by Larynx loosener and the other gobshite.

Larry’s minders have taken him off-line for a Baker-day. No problem for their minders if they insult the prophet Muhammad, Allah’s last messenger, may God’s blessings and peace be upon him, but they forgot that their cover in this country is to pretend they are Christians. Yesterday that cover was well and truly blown! Tomorrow the voice of the Rothschilds will crackle over our TV screens ( I haven’t got one ) like the James Bond cat-stroking masterminds of world domination, and give us our instructions direct from a cloud hovering over Jerusalem!

arsalan: I wouldn’t worry too much about where Larry is. Just be thankful he’s not here. Even if he is in Israel, take comfort from the fact that such a clueless, empty-headed buffoon is the best they can come up with.

Incidentally, on a theological point, I note your earlier remark about “the part of the Bible where Jesus talks of the Prophet that will come to next”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you’re referring here to the prophet referred to by Moses (not Jesus) in Deuteronomy 18 and 34.

Most Christian scholars of course claim this prophet is Jesus.

The war on terrrrr contd/…

Did anyone else think it odd when seeing the item on the news last night that the Moscow underground had been cleaned up and re-opened the same day? Another false flag perhaps?

Putin says the perpetrators should be ‘scraped from the bottom of the sewer’. I should imagine that he is very familar with that location.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8595162.stm

“Another false flag perhaps?”

EVERYTHING IS A FALSE FLAG!

Yes mary, I also thought that was very odd. So much for collecting evidence. I also find it odd that no-one has claimed responsibility.

MJ, No, I was referring to the New Testament.

In English versions they usually translate it as comforter/counsellor.

John 14:16 (New International Version)

16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever

John 15:26 (New International Version)

26″When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 16:7 (New International Version)

7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

The dispute about how these verses should be interpreted goes in to the Greek words. And which Aramaic word they were translated from.

Muslims say,

Paracletos(the word used in the Greek) is the warped reading for Periclytos. It Translates back in to Aramaic as Ahmed. Which is one of the names of the Prophet pbh and the name the Quran says Jesus Pbh referred to Mohummed pbh as.

Muslims believe in Jesus, so we wouldn’t dispute the meanings of the verses of the old testament that Christians say refer to Jesus pbh. But I have heard Muslims and Christians debating over some of them in which Muslims said the description more closely describes Mohummed pbh.

I really don’t want to go too deeply in to this, because I don’t know much about the Bible, Greek or Aramaic.

I think Anno might be a better person to ask about this stuff.

Eddie Goldberg: as to the issue of what time zone I’m in, one question: if you miss a train, do you automatically blames the JOOOOOOOSSS?

the last post was by me.

Larry, your mum is a false flag.

If I miss the train, I blame your MUM!!!

Gosh that brought LfStL running. Just 2 minutes to make his predictable response.

Surely DNA would have to be collected as would the remains be identified and gathered and scene of crime photos taken. In this country, maybe not in Israhell, roads are closed for the whole of the day when there has been a fatal accident.

MJ is spot on about no one claiming responsibility.

MJ

I’m a bit rusty on the Gospels. It is a canon of Islam that all the prophets, peace be upon them all, were informed of the last, great prophet (saw).

Arsalan will know better than me where these prophecies are recorded in the Bible. All that I know is that in the Bible the name is transliterated as ‘the highly praised one ‘ rather than given as a name. Obviously the Messiah was prophecied, I don’t care where, as I have the evidence of the Qur’an that he was Al-Masih, the anointed one.

I have given the two references in the Gospels in an earlier post prophecying the last prophet,peace be upon him.

One is the question Jesus pbuh asked about who they thought he was, and they replied by asking him if he was the Messiah, Elijah returned or the great prophet who is to come. SAW.

The other is when Jesus pbuh says that after him will come another, who will confirm everything he has said, make everything clear and speak only what he hears ( from the angel Gabriel ) peace be upon all of them. This is normally taken to refer to a gift of the Angel Gabriel being sent to the Christians, enabling them to speak in tongues.

Meanwhile Larynx loosener is worse than spit,because the prophets were given miracles of healing from Allah with spit. His new name is Lazy Izraeli or Laz for short because he can’t be bothered to get out of bed in time.

Yeah i saw that on the news last night and thought it exremely odd indeed.

Surely the scene of a terrorist crime would’ve taken weeks to examine forensically?

How it had all been cleaned away and the trains back running was eerie and didn’t ring true at all.

Very strange.

arsalan: yes but in John 14.26 Jesus defines the Comforter as the Holy Ghost, not a prophet. Elsewhere of course he also advises us to beware false prophets. He also points out that even angels can be Satan in disguise…

dreoilin – just to demonstrate how completely clueless you are.

You write: “Unfortunately, yes, they do count (at least up to ten). They’re part of the same Boo-Hoo-Becky crowd who carry guns to political rallies, or shoot out the windows of Democrat offices when they lose the health care vote. Brownshirt thugs. They are the crazies of the USA, who unfortunately have votes as well as guns, and aspire to put Ms Palin in the White House.”

1. The men in Phoenix who brought weapons to the rally (one being an AR-15) were members of a group called Freedom’s Phoenix. Nut jobs for sure. One predictable thing about them is that THEY BELIEVE THAT 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB YOU FUCKING LOON. (i.e., more in common with you than me).

2. It was a Republican whose office was shot after the vote. Still a bad thing, but not necessarily connected with the health care vote, AND IT WAS A FUCKING REPUBLICAN YOU FUCKING CLUELESS MORON.

Do you choose to be dumb or were you born that way? Perhaps it’s having spent years under the rule of the Pope. I just saw Angela’s Ashes over the weekend (nothing else one). A movie of course, but it highlighted what’s it is like to grow up under a government that tells you that some space god has all sorts of demands on you. But he loves you, etc.

You write: “mid-forties, with the prerequisite Harley …’anti-semitic’”

If you think that guys who own Harleys spend their time worried about anti-Semitism, then you’re simply complicit in your own extreme ignorance.

So is this now a 911 truth / Jew-hating blog or a religious instructiong blog?

Read John 14:16 explains it.

‘Another’ is the key word.

And Muslims do believe all the Prophets pbh warned their people about a coming false Prophet, Known to the Muslims as Dajal, and to the Christians as the Anti Christ.

I’m not saying Israel and America take their orders from that man, but they are doing a very good impression of nations that are.

Larry:

This is the LArry hating blog. Where people discuss why they hate Larry her mother.

MJ, When you read stuff written by Larry, Can’t you see Antichrist written all over it?

MJ

Sorry to butt in. The Gospels are a record of a book called the Injeel, which probably exists somewhere locked up because it is different from the versions of the evangelists M<M<Luke and John.

The Gospels state that the custodianship of the religion of Islam was changed because people did not believe in their prophet Jesus (AS) By the time the religion was accepted three centuries later by Constantine it had been changed out of all recognition.

We can’t take the evangelist’s writings as 100% true because the Injeel was confiscated and these writers or their writings came under the influence and control of revisionists. Muslims are not permitted to take knowledge from previous writings because we do not know which parts have been altered, what has been ommitted and what was the meaning of them.

The Holy Ghost in the Qur’an is the Angel Gabriel, ‘alaihi salaam, who informed the prophets of Allah’s commands sometimes by wahi, inspiration and sometimes by other means and who brought down the Qur’an. pbut.

The Christians got the idea that they were being offered the same deal as the prophets. We don’t have any knowledge of that, and we have certain knowledge that wahi, is only given to prophets, not George Bush and Tony Blair and anyone else listening to the whisperings of Satan to finish off Islam.

Larry

“So is this now a 911 truth / Jew-hating blog or a religious instructiong blog?”

Don’t be an arsehole. Anybody can comment on this blog. This blog does not support 9/11 conspiracy theory any more than it supports your neo-con views. You are all just commenters, You know that very well. Now behave.

Laz = Taz

anno, I see myself as a spiritual person but not a religious one. I follow theology but have no particular axe to grind. There is much that I admire in Islam thought. Unlike Christianity for instance it does not get its theological knickers in a twist with that Holy Trinity nonsense. But if there is a flaw in Islam it surely lies in the Angel Gabriel stuff. Why did Allah not reveal himself directly to Mohammed, face to face?

Correction: Wahi was also given to Mary, (AS) Sorry to misinform.

MJ

If you read a very short way into the Qur’an, you will find a description of the occasion when the Children of Israel asked to see God plainly. They were all struck dead and the mountain destroyed. Moses pbuh was told to look at the mountain in the opposite direction. He was blinded unconscious merely by the reflection. I’m not a scholar, so don’t take my word for the precise meaning of the Qur’an.

‘theological knickers’

Would those be the ones I see, high, high high-high-high, scholars of the Hindu religion wearing on their heads when leave the Delhi plane?

Expecting a whacking from Craig, for that, or even multiple deletions.

Dreoilin,

I usually read every day, but I don’t always feel that I have anything to add. I wanted to wish you well as you had just been the target of such vile abuse; I know you have a good conscience.

Arsalan,

I suspect that most of the more troublesome commenters here use a proxy, so that the IP addresses they leave in Craig’s server logs will be misleading or uninformative.

Generally,

there seems to be an fairly direct relationship between how open about themselves a commenter is and how compassionate and moral their comments are. No surprise there, then.

“‘theological knickers’ Would those be the ones I see, high, high high-high-high, scholars of the Hindu religion wearing on their heads when leave the Delhi plane?”

Blinks, looks again. A definite “did I _really_ just read that ?” moment, there.

“Expecting a whacking from Craig, for that, or even multiple deletions”

I feel that a demand for GIFs would be in order, meself.

In fact, if you can show us photos of Hindus getting off a plane wearing their theological knickers on their heads, I’ll see if I can dig up the (rather spectacular) page I saw several months back, photos of Sikhs with Infeasibly Big Turbans. How about that ?

anno: yet God did communicate directly with Moses. God spoke directly with Jesus. With Mohammed however Allah was content to send an emissary. As a result uncharitable Christans can suggest that it was not really Gabriel but Satan in disguise, just as Jesus had warned.

“When you read stuff written by Larry, Can’t you see Antichrist written all over it?”

No arsalan. I see someone who swallows unquestioningly everything the MSM tells him to think, then spouts it out believing he had just thought of it himself.

“Anybody can comment on this blog.”

Right. Until you delete the comments you don’t like.

However, 911 truth and Madras instruction seem to be just fine to you.

Clark

Something tells Larry isn’t smart enough to think of that.

Remember the best he could come up with to

say that it is possible for him to be in St L, is that he wakes up very early.

The man isn’t only evil, he is an idiot.

Where do people get the idea that evil people must be geniuses?

They are all a bunch of twits, there are few if any evil geniuses and Larry is about as far away as you can get from being a genius.

Look at him, just look at him and think. He is here to try and get us not to hate America and Israel.

Has it worked?

Has he increased our hatred of those two countries or decreased it?

The man is a twit.

If he is being paid for this, who ever is paying him should ask for a refund.

Not just a refund, Zionism should ask for compensation from him.

Heh Eddie Goldberg, I’m starting to feel a little tired … perhaps it’s time for a rest.

“However, 911 truth and Madras instruction seem to be just fine to you”

Your greed’s getting the better of you again. He gave you a whole separate thread for “911 truth”, but you won’t stick to it, will you, you keep trying to wheedle more. It’s like watching a spoilt child trying to put off going to bed.

Yes Larry 7:40 PM +2 = 9:40PM, way past your bedtime.

“He gave you a whole separate thread for “911 truth”, but you won’t stick to it”

He doesn’t go there anymore, he was finding it a bit hot and uncomfortable the poor dear.

Any ideas on what “Madras instruction” might be?

“he was finding it a bit hot and uncomfortable the poor dear.”

You hopeless cases failed to demonstrate anything other than your gullibility and your willing manipulation by right-wing Americans.

Arsalan: “Yes Larry 7:40 PM +2 = 9:40PM, way past your bedtime.”

Heh Eddie Goldberg, do you look for a Jew under every rock?

No Larry, why would I want to find you. reading what you write is disgusting enough.

“Any ideas on what “Madras instruction” might be?”

He’s adding ‘town-planner’ to his claimed list of awsum skillz ? Looking for help with his cooking but too proud to ask directly ? Or maybe just polishing his “you’re all idiots” speech before he favours a whole city with his kindly words of encouragement and support.

MJ I can answer your question to Anno:

Posted by: MJ at March 30, 2010 7:22 P

Muslims believe those who enter paradise will see God. And for them this will be a better reward than all the pleasures they will receive in paradise.

And the thing which will upset the people of hell most of all, more then all the eternal pain they will suffer is the knowledge they will never see their creator.

We don’t believe any of the Prophets pbh have seen God.

As I have said before, I am not knowledgeable of the Christian scripture. So I can’t really comment on how you interpret the verses that talk about how revelation was revealed to earlier Prophets peace be them.

And what is mentioned really isn’t an issue for me, because the reason I believe in the Prophet Mohummed pbh isn’t because I believe your scripture mentions him, it is the other way around. I believe your/and my Prophet Jesus pbh mentioned him as Ahmed because that is what the Quran tells us.

As Anno mentioned, we don’t consider a English translation of the Bible is the unedited book revealed to Jesus. We don’t even consider a translation of the Quran as Quran. But with the Bible, where the original Aramaic has been lost, we don’t view it as a source of revelation for us, just the remnants of an earlier revelation, sent to an earlier people, to be used at an earlier time.

I believe in the Quran and the Prophet pbh that revealed it because of the Quran.

When I read it I know it is from the creator. Other people may or may not see this, I am not them so I wouldn’t know.

I think it can best be described as what happens when we look at creation, the sky, the earth and living things. Some people see this and know that this was created while others see it and feel it isn’t.

I know about atoms and macromolecules, as I have mentioned in another thread. That is what I know about. and I know the difficulties we face in creating them in the right order. So when I see what God made, I know it isn’t by chance and I see the existence of God in my surroundings.

Others don’t, and that’s what you call faith and we call iman.

God guides who he wants to guide, and some people will continue to disbelieve even if winged Angels came down from heaven to inform them of God’s existence.

Eddie Goldberg – how boring. The Scientologists and Mormons are far more interesting.

Actually, Arsalan, that’s not quite true – your claim that others ” will continue to disbelieve even if winged Angels came down from heaven to inform them of God’s existence.”

If there were a scrap of genuine proof anywhere, I’d be more than happy to entertain it. That’s what atheists are, people who act on provable fact, instead of believing a fact to be true without any evidence. You’d need no faith if there was evidence. So if there were proof, I’d believe in the consequences of that proof.

One sees what one wants to see, as the old saying goes, “I’d never have seen it if I hadn’t believed it.”

Glenn, looking up at the sky, or down at the earth is more proof of God’s existence then seeing angels can ever be.

But some people don’t see it, others do.

I think we choose to see the proof, or not see it.

I believe what you see is proof enough, and you believe what I see isn’t enough proof.

Because I believe you have seen enough proof, I’m not going to try and Bible bash you in to becoming another me. Only God guides, and he guides who he wants.

So I will pray for your guidence if that is ok with you. But I really can’t be bothered to do much else right now. My kids have just gone to sleep, and so should I.

Good bye my friend.

Arsalan, good evening from the Bethsheeba Kibbutz & Disinformation Emporium!

Arsalan – I believe what you see is proof enough for yourself, and I also think that what you get out of your religion is good for you, and by extension because of its influence on you and your influence on the world, good for others too. So your faith is a positive thing. I am happy for you that you are happy with it.

I also thank you for praying for me – truly, that is very generous and kind of you. You do this because you have a good heart, and you are a kind man.

Good night to you too.

“What is the Kurdish for Advocate. Muhammi she replied”

anno, that is incredibly interesting and enlightening. Thank you.

In debate, there is a reasonable correlation between people resorting to four-letter abuse and having to concede an argument. Accordingly I’ll echo Clark regarding the abuse directed at @dreoilin – it’s silly, unnecessary, and may be an indication that the abuser feels cornered.

@dreoilin – it is laudable that you put your ideas forward as patiently as you do. But I fear you may be wasting your time – I am inclined to agree with Craig, that Larry and others are here specifically to disrupt the conversation. Whether he/she/they are paid to do so is conceivable but not particularly important.

I disagree with anno and arsalan on most things, but – Larry take note – I don’t recall a time they have been abusive to people who engage in discussions with them.

“But I fear you may be wasting your time – I am inclined to agree with Craig, that Larry and others are here specifically to disrupt the conversation.”

Jon,

I was among the first to say that Larry is a troll and should be ignored. Craig said he was welcome here.

If Larry imagines that by abusing me he can shut me up he will find out otherwise. I don’t modify what I say about the US or its voters (or any other subject) to suit him. I don’t post here to suit him either.

I don’t think he’s paid by anyone for his interventions here. I think he’s amusing himself.

“I don’t think he’s paid by anyone for his interventions here”

Neither do. Not smart enough.

“Whether he/she/they are paid to do so is conceivable but not particularly important.”

Not sure why you’d address that to me? I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned the subject of him being paid until my last comment.

Agree with you, MJ.

MJ

Apparently the Arabic derivation of the Kurdish word for advocate is completely different to the Arabic word Muhammad. I’m going to investigate, but that is apparently a red herring. Sorry

@stephen at March 30, 2010 3:56 PM

Sorry about that, I’ve got it now.

“that is apparently a red herring”

anno: it might be but etymology is not a precise science, particularly when one of the languages involded ie Aramaic is largely archaic. Things are further complicated by the fact that the original gospels were not written in Aramaic but in Greek.

Hi dreoilin – didn’t intend to address that bit to you specifically, apologies. It’s just that the general topic of trolls undertaking disruption activity “professionally” has been raised before, and I thought I’d comment on it.

We’ve had Israelis on Irish blogs. They do more than post “Jooooos” every day or so, but they do make the anti-semitic argument. They’ve tried to justify what was done in Lebanon and Gaza. They complain about rockets. They leave when they realise what they’re facing, by way of opposition.

My latest take on Larry is that he’s retired and at a bit of a loose end. Maybe he doesn’t sleep too well.

dreollin: They write on Irish blogs justifying what they did in Lebanon? Hmm. Wonder if they can justify this:

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/israeli-children-sign-their-missiles_18.html

Glenn, that’s dreadful. I’ll pass it on.

My take on Larry is he is retired and still a virgin.

Larry would say criticizing what those children did is anti-Semitism.

Those Zionist say criticizing the firing of those bombs is anti-Semitism.

If you say what those children are writing is wrong, they will say you are only doing it because those children are Jews.

That is their answer to everything.

And mostly, it works.

It doesn’t work so well with Muslims, so they mainly concentrate on you guys.

If they, whether here or on the Irish Blog call you an Anti-Semitism, tell them to stuff their Anti-Semitism up their bums.

We do, Arsalan.

Arsalan – whine, whine, whine. You have to make up things to whine about.

Simple Larry’s vacuous post prompted me to mention this. Reporters are finding the pressure on Palestine is actually promoting violence, by expecting the leaders to Do Something about the intolerable conditions:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/insidegaza

Someone I really respect mentioned to me yesterday that it may be that the ‘larries’ are ‘here, there and everywhere’ and that their contract is likely to be directed at defaming oppositional websites that have wide readership so that the websites fail to gain broader currency, esp. in the USA.

I think the person who posited this dynamic has a point.

Short, snappy phrases filled with references to Jews, etc. tend to get picked-up on internet engine searches. The arguments on the sites tend to become narrowed-down because arguing with someone who is shouting insults and making facile comments which are refractive of rational discourse tends to have that effect.

I sense that most of the people who blog here already suspect such a dynamic in any case.

Suhayl – we can suspect forever, but I wonder if it achieves anything, helps us understand ? Motives are difficult to be sure about, once you start doubting honesty.

Unless there’s something that can actually be established, proved. I see the results, certainly, but is there a way to distinguish the motive ? Is there anything in the behaviour that isn’t just as well explained by suggesting that Larry(eg) is a narcissistic obsessive who “just” likes to see people jumping when he prods them, and doesn’t have the (self- or other-) respect to bother much how he gets his fix ?

Provability :-

against – any conversation you could get involved in, anywhere on the internet, is vulenrable to this kind of Gresham’s Law, bad conversation drives out good. It doesn’t matter what the subject, pick the least likely to be subject to reasons for any such attack, and just so long as it comes to public visibilty in some way, it’s not likely to be very long before there will be people turning up acting in very similar ways. The ability to give oneself any name one wants, change it to taste, etc, seems to let a lot of people give themselves permission to act the obnoxious disruptive arsehole for the most trivial of reasons, or apparently none. Occam’s razor is handy to keep around.

neither for nor against – your probing for taboos is interesting, but on the assumption that you’re speaking to a paid liar, isn’t it diagnostic of a badly-thought-out effort, rather than an effort per se ? If it’s a job, then the better someone is at it, the less you’d be able to tell. Yes, he isn’t answering, but then again that’s not atypical behaviour, he also evades many other questions, arguments, responses. He isn’t engaging in conversation, he’s throwing stones and running away.

for – the hypothesis that this stuff is being posted for the sake of being made use of elsewhere, is testable. Are there examples elsewhere where this blog is being dismissed by means of them ? The proof of the pudding; where is it being eaten ?

I’m not disputing that huge sums of money are being disbursed on all sorts of propaganda/astroturf operations, I’m just wondering how much it’s worth bothering about in this case – what difference does it make, I mean ? Hanlon’s is another useful razor – “never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”. Our response, I mean. Does it make a difference to the way we’d respond to it ? If somebody’s flinging their shit around, does an analysis of their motives lead us to vary our responses ?

There are other flavours, of course; the variously-named BNP, for example. But that’s hardly a “hidden” agenda.

Ah, I missed a bit – “the ‘larries’ are ‘here, there and everywhere’”

That might be evidence. Of something.

How are ‘larries’ and ‘here, there and everywhere’ defined, recognised ?

If it just means that people act the disruptive arsehole all over the place in various different ways, then; well, yes, that’s life.

Or is it something more specific ? People emitting a recognisable set of stock comments ? Reacting to a specific set of stimuli ? Blogs on a distinguishable set of subjects all being diverted in similiar directions ?