Yanukovich and Kabbah

by craig on March 4, 2014 11:08 am in Uncategorized

My old boss Mark Lyall Grant, UK Ambassador to the United Nations, is a deeply unpleasant man.  But he was quite right to dismiss Russia’s legal pretext for invading Ukraine on the basis of an invitation letter from ex-President Yanukovich.

The problem is Mark Lyall Grant is the last person in world to have moral authority to do this, as he was directly involved in drafting an invitation letter from ex-President Kabbah of Sierra Leone inviting Britain to invade Sierra Leone, which Britain then did.  Mark Lyall Grant said at the UN yesterday about Yanukovich that:  “We are talking about a former leader who abandoned his office, his capital and his country, whose corrupt governance brought his country to the brink of economic ruin”.  Exactly the same things could have been said about Kabbah, whose government had been massively corrupt – and was again when restored, and who issued his invitation to invade from a five star hotel in London after living in exile in Guinea.

The unspeakable horrors of the Sierra Leonean civil war have led to a lazy mainstream media accepting Sierra Leone as the “good” invasion.  But the civil wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone were not a spontaneous outbreak of human evil, they were caused by the massive corruption of ruling coastal elites in both Sierra Leone and neighbouring Liberia, compared to the appalling poverty and lack of basic services and education for those in the hinterland.  It is one of the ironies of history that the elites were the descendants of slaves returned with the very best of intentions by the US and UK, educated and given much charitable provision, who controlled the state and then set to exploiting the hinterland tribes ruthlessly from the “hut wars” of the 1880’s on.  The eruption of massive scale diamond mining from the 1960’s on escalated levels of corruption, warlordism and violence and almost continual military rule.  Laudable attempts to foster democracy did nothing to lessen corruption.  The dreadful atrocities of the RUF and Kamajors were a result of the tribal eruption that ensued.

What the British invasion did was simply to put the old corrupt elite safely back in place, and make the minerals secure for western interests.  Even more valuable than the diamonds is Sierra Leone’s rutile mine, the world’s single most profitable mine.  Following the British invasion guess who suddenly became a director of that mine? Valerie Amos, who was one of the ministers who authorized the invasion, and is now at the UN in charge of pushing for war in Syria.

I always opposed the doctrine of “liberal intervention” and still do.  But those who invented “the right to protect” were stupid enough to believe that they would forever be the only military power strong enough to seize assets in other countries.  For the historian, the “right to protect” and “liberal intervention” are precisely the same as excuses given for imperial grabs throughout the millennia.

Invading another territory is wrong when the British do it, and it is wrong when the Russians do it.  It is quite simply untrue that ethnic Russians were under threat in the Ukraine.  International law always recognizes and deals with the government actually in power in the country.  If ousted leaders are accepted as having in the right to call in freeing invasion to restore them, the world would be in a state of perpetual war.

Plainly Russian actions are illegal.  They do have an agreed right to station forces in Crimea.  It is impossible to tell at the moment if the agreed numbers have been exceeded, but the Russian production of Yanukovich’s letter would certainly appear to indicate that.  But Russian actions in blocking roads and blockading Ukrainian military bases on Ukrainian soil are plainly illegal.

Russia is behaving as what it is, an imperialist thug.  The British and the United States indeed lack any moral authority to make such a statement.  But I do not suffer from that handicap, and nor do you.

 

 

PS The story of my Sierra Leone involvement is in my book The Catholic Orangemen of Togo.  This is available for free download in a number of places around the web, including here.

 

 

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320 Comments

  1. Bully boy Obama talking more nonsense, but watch as he defends his policy from attacks by those who say Putin is running rings around him again.

    He’s trying to deny charges that Putin is tactically or strategically superior.

    So he says that what Putin is doing is not a sign of strength, but a sign of…

    The audience is expecting the word “weakness”, but does he say it? Does he have the balls to say it?

    Bloody right he doesn’t say it!

    Quickly realising that’s not the thing to say to the lesder of a nuclear power, he scratches his arse for a minute and waffles on some non-sequitor Bush-like bollocks about other countries not being impressed ffs.

    Not so easy when you’re facing someone nearly your own size, is it.

    Coward.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10676880/Barack-Obama-Russia-is-not-being-strategic.html

  2. “Military Industrial Congressional Intelligence Complex”

    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6116&hl=+military%96industrial%20+complex

    All of this for NEW cold war?, IF so, it was well planned!.

  3. Oh for goodness’ sake.

    “When I embrace Putin I do so because I believe he is not a patron of terror, intimidation, shock and awe. He is not a murderer of innocent children in an illegal war, a war that displaced Iraqi families by the million.”

    “Mark I certainly prefer Putin to Obama, Cameron, et al.”

    Chechnya. Chechnya. Chechnya.

  4. “All of this for NEW cold war?, IF so, it was well planned!.”

    Cold war? It would be a bloody freezing war in Germany if Russia turned the gas off.

  5. Can anyone believe the UN being an honest broker in settling the disputes in the Ukraine when it send Robert Serry, a former NATO Deputy Secretary General for Crisis Management, to do the job.

    He’s lucky the armed soldiers did not string him up on a light pole.

    Of course, our free media says nothing about who Serry really is!

    Guess the Secretary General could not get bigger scumbags like former American covert operator Robert Gates to do the job!

  6. “Chechnya. Chechnya. Chechnya.”

    Yes indeed, but we have to face up to the fact that the US is by far the greater threat to world peace, and by many orders of magnitude.

    And funnily enough, when asked, that’s what people all over the world are saying.

  7. How about Robert Serry, a former NATO Deputy Secretary General for Crisis Management, being the UN mediator in the Crimea!

    He’s lucky he didn’t get strung up by the soldiers, once they discovered who he really is.

  8. If you remember from Nuland’s leaked conversation:

    “Nuland: OK… one more wrinkle for you Geoff. [A click can be heard] I can’t remember if I told you this, or if I only told Washington this, that when I talked to Jeff Feltman [United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs] this morning, he had a new name for the UN guy Robert Serry did I write you that this morning?”

    Yup, another of Nuland’s fixers.

  9. “Nuland: OK. He’s now gotten both Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.”

    Isn’t it a pity she didn’t mention whom she wanted to do the sniping…

  10. Robert Serry, a former NATO Deputy Secretary for Crisis Management, being the UN mediator in the Crimea.

    What will it think of next!

    He’s lucky he didn’t get strung up on a light pole!

  11. Had a look at the “best-rated” comments on the Daily Mail. And yes, at that well known outpost of loony left wingers, the readers are falling over themselves to support Russia and Putin.

    USAF HFGCS seems to have gone relatively quiet. Yesterday it felt like an almost non-stop barrage of, never before heard, scary sounding call signs, EAMs, Skykings galore. Today traffic sounds like a typical day. In fact possibly quieter than normal. So far anyway…

    Helpfully yesterday, just to make sure everyone got the message, USAF also had multiple TACAMO planes flying about with their civilian transponders turned on (until they flew out to sea) so you could track them on flight-tracker sites.

  12. Someone; Ike’s warning came quite quickly after liberal democrat Truman initiated the National Security Act of 1947.

  13. “We witnessed Putin’s games corrupted,”

    1. They were not Putin’s games.
    2. They were pretty much corrupted before any athletes arrived there – are you really so naïve as to where a big slug of the cost went.

    “Mark I certainly prefer Putin to Obama, Cameron, et al.”

    Well at least Cameron takes a rather softer line on presstitutes for Putin arselickers than those Putin does on those Russian presstitutes who take a contrary view to his own. Navalny still remains under house arrest and denied access to the internet.

  14. BrianFujisan

    5 Mar, 2014 - 6:38 pm

    G.R… have been onto the sniper tape too… i posted about the snipers a couple of days ago…. that it was certainly professional killings…. now it seems we have Further proof…Great Links Alcanon, and others.

    Global Research also have this interesting Piece up –

    How and Why the U.S. Government Aided a Coup Led by Neo-Nazis in Ukraine

    Why U.S. imperialism continues to target Russia

    Imperialist Strategy toward the former Soviet Republics

    The right-wing coup government in Ukraine is trying to integrate the country into an E.U./IMF-sponsored austerity regime that will lead to the deep impoverishment of the Ukrainian working classes. The tremendous resources of Ukraine are seen as a huge prize for the enrichment of the biggest banks and corporations in Western Europe and the United States. These resources include major deposits of coal, iron ore, manganese, nickel and uranium. It holds the largest sulfur and second-largest mercury reserves in the world, and vast, rich agricultural lands and forests. In addition, Ukraine has large-scale heavy industry, particularly in the eastern part of the country.

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union most of the former socialist bloc countries of Central and Eastern Europe have been integrated into a NATO and E.U. sphere of influence. Of the 28 member nations of the E.U., 22 so far have been incorporated into NATO.

    Western imperialism has targeted all the countries in Eastern Europe and the other non-Russian former Soviet republics, including Ukraine, for incorporation into a U.S. and NATO-led sphere of influence. Their strategy is to exploit the land, labor and resources of the targeted countries, while containing and weakening Russia economically and militarily.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940

  15. Many, many tentacles on this Octopus.

    http://www.juancole.com/2014/03/crimean-middle-winners.html

    “Turkey is the country with most at stake. In essence, it is surrounded by countries it which Russia has intervened, with Syria to its south and Crimea just across the Black Sea to its north. Turkey has a special interest in Crimea. Today, on the order of 12% of the 2 million residents of the peninsular are Tatars, i.e. Turkic-speaking Muslims, though before Russia’s annexation of the territory from the Ottoman Empire in 1784, it was all Tatar. Russians immigrated in (they are now almost 60% of the population, with a quarter being ethnically Ukrainian). Stalin ethnically cleansed the Crimean Tatars during WW II, but after the fall of the Soviet Union some 300,000 have gradually returned. Turkey is as interested in the fate of the Crimean Tatars “

  16. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 6:44 pm

    ESLO

    ““We witnessed Putin’s games corrupted,”

    1. They were not Putin’s games.”
    _________________________

    I wonder if the chump who wrote “Putin’s games” would also call the London Olympics “Cameron’s games”?

    If not, why not?

  17. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 6:52 pm

    “He’s lucky he didn’t get strung up on a light pole!”

    _______________________

    That’s the third time in almost as many minutes that Trowbridge has waxed lyrical about hanging someone.

    It has been alleged that the former Lord Chief Justice Rayner Goddard (perhaps better known to you as Lord Goddard) used to cum in his pants when sentiencing someone to be hanged. I do hope that Trowbridge does not suffer a similar mishap when posting.

  18. BrianFujisan

    5 Mar, 2014 - 6:56 pm

    Another Fine piece from G.R…. all is seriously Fkd Up BIG Time

    And the current leader of the Svoboda Party, Oleh Tyahnybok, is quite a piece of work. The following is what Stephen Lendman had to say about him…

    “Washington openly backs fascist Svoboda party leader Oleh Tyahnybok…In 2004, Tyahnybok was expelled from former President Viktor Yushchenko’s parliamentary faction. He was condemned for urging Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”

    In 2005, he denounced “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry.” He outrageously claimed they plan “genocide” against Ukrainians.”…

    Tyahnybok extremism didn’t deter Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland. On February 6, she met openly with him and other anti-government leaders.

    In early January, 15,000 ultranationalists held a torchlight march through Kiev. They did so to honor Nazi-era collaborator/mass murderer Stepan Bandera. Some wore uniforms a Wehrmacht Ukrainian division used in WW II. Others chanted “Ukraine above all” and “Bandera, come and bring order.”

    Isn’t that lovely?

    And another top Svoboda Party official loves to quote Joseph Goebbels and other top Nazis from the World War II era…

    Another top Svoboda member, Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, a deputy in parliament, often quotes Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, as well as other Third Reich luminaries like Ernst Rohm and Gregor Strasser.

    You would think that the U.S. government would want nothing to do with such people.

    But instead, the U.S. government has actively aided their rise to power, and now members of the Svoboda Party have been appointed to very important positions throughout the new government in Ukraine…

    As the fires die down from the turmoil in Kiev, a political party that has been accused of promoting anti-Semitism and xenophobia is set to reap the benefits of the new government arrangement.

    The Svoboda Party will take control of not one, but three ministries in the interim government.

    These posts include the deputy prime minister and the heads of the agriculture and environmental ministries. In addition to these positions, a Svoboda lawmaker was appointed the new prosecutor general in the interim government.

    Are you disgusted yet?

    You should be.

    If I was a Jewish person living in Ukraine, I would be trying to get out as fast as I could.

    Fortunately, there are some people that are seeking to help them. In fact, they will soon receive a million dollars from one organization to help with security…

    Ukrainian Jews are slated to receive $1 million to increase security against possible upticks in anti-Semitic behavior in the wake of the country’s massive political upheaval.

    The money is coming from the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, the Jewish Week reported, and is going toward protection for places where Jews gather, as well as for the elderly and poverty-stricken.

    “From the many conversations I’ve conducted this week with Jewish leaders in the Ukraine, we understood that the situation on the ground is critical,” organization founder and president Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein said. “Rabbis and communal leaders feel under threat.”

    Hopefully as word gets out about the extreme anti-Semitism of some of these Ukrainian politicians, our politicians in Washington D.C. will start to change their tune.

    But we have seen this kind of thing before. The Obama administration helped al-Qaeda take power in Libya, it is helping al-Qaeda try to overthrow the Syrian government, and now it is helping neo-Nazis rise to power in Ukraine.

    It is almost as if a case of collective insanity has gripped the people running things in Washington.

    I truly fear for what is ahead. –

    Michael T. Snyder @

    Why is the Mainstream Media Ignoring the Rabid Anti-Semitism of the New Ukraine Government?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-is-the-mainstream-media-ignoring-the-rabid-anti-semitism-of-the-new-ukraine-government/5371858

  19. I mistakenly posted three posts on the previous page, thinking that they had not appeared, only to find them on this page.

    I can think of nothing better to post repeatedly though, as it shows just how corrupt, and owned by Western covert operators the UN has become in matters of international security.

    Don’t favor killing anyone, but can understand how reckless covert operators end up getting killed.

  20. “You would think that the U.S. government would want nothing to do with such people.”

    No I wouldn’t.

    I would expect an extreme right racist government to support extreme right racists.

    They always have in the past.

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 7:39 pm

    Is Russia’s population growing or decreasing?

    CanSpeccy:

    “@ Habbababaqkiq

    Your link does not, however, show that Russia’s population is increasing although that is the impression you seek to give.

    No it does not, but if it had it would have been correct!

    Forbes Mag: Don’t Look Now But ‘Dying’ Russia’s Population Is Still Growing”
    _____________________

    Well, thank you for manning up and admitting that your “link” did not show what you’d claimed it showed. And thank you for that hilarious “..but if it had it would have been correct.” – impeccable logic!

    Now, unfortunately, your second link – an article by one Mark Adomanis (who he?) in Forbes Magazine is no better.

    After pointing to a slight increase in the population over the last couple of years, this slightly confused young man asks: “Does that mean Russia’s population is fated to grow forever?”. He then answers his own question with the following: “No. You can (accurately) say that Russia’s population WAS shrinking and you can (accurately) say that Russia’s population is extremely likely to shrink in the coming years.”.

    I’ll leave it to the casual reader to make sense of that.

    Perhaps I should also quote from a link in young Adomanis’s own article in Forbes:

    “President Vladimir Putin has declared that it is his goal to stabilise the population at present levels {ie, about 143 million}, then gradually increase it once more. However, Demoscope Weekly, the respected and independent Russian demographic research organisation, predicts that even by the most optimistic – and, thus, least likely – prediction, Russia cannot have more than 136 million people by 2025 and 128 million by 2050.”.

    CanSpeccy, would you like to have a third go (third time lucky and all that)? :)

    ************************

    “Life is getting better, life is getting merrier – but not longer” (J. Stalin, ca.1932)

  22. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 7:45 pm

    Has anyone else noticed the slight resemblance between interim PM Arseny Yatsenyiuk and the young Heinrich Himmler?

    I think this constitutes definite proof that the interim Ukrainian govt is neo-Nazi in intent and practice.

  23. doug scorgie

    5 Mar, 2014 - 8:02 pm

    Ангрысоба
    4 Mar, 2014 – 1:11 pm

    “The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defence of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China.”

    Ангрысоба please give a link or references to back-up that the above is a quote from Orwell.

    By the way the vast majority on this blog are not pacifists.

  24. Habba
    Last time I was in Moscow the Russians after Vodka were sex mad. I think the population is growing,but they are forgetting to count.
    Skol ta mej fan !

  25. OT.

    “Obama’s Growth Forecast Bullish, Wall Street Exuberant, Corporate Insiders Freak-Out Bearish”

    http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/3/4/obamas-growth-forecast-bullish-wall-street-exuberant-corpora.html

  26. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 8:28 pm

    Kurtan

    “Last time I was in Moscow the Russians after Vodka were sex mad”
    ________________

    Maybe so, Kurtan :) But does sex mad translate into fertility?

  27. Here you go Doug:-

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/20280-the-majority-of-pacifists-either-belong-to-obscure-religious-sects

    Plenty more where that came from.

    No shortage of supporting evidence on this blog either.

  28. The Russian culture of heavy drinking has cut life expectancy for males to 64, one of the lowest figures in the developed world. A quarter of Russian men die before they reach 55 (compared to 6% in the UK). This is one factor in the stagnating Russian population numbers that Putin is going to find it hard to combat.

  29. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    5 Mar, 2014 - 8:43 pm

    Doug

    Say a nice ‘thank you’ to Kempe, please.

  30. Actually it’s not so much the Russian life expectancy that’s the problem. It’s the birth rate.

    http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/russia/life-expectancy-at-birth
    http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/russia/birth-rate

  31. The US perinatal death rate is actually 40% higher than Russia.
    Is it reporting?

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_08.pdf

  32. Resident Dissident

    5 Mar, 2014 - 10:30 pm

    Does anyone have the migration in and out figures for Russia – somehow I have a feeling that people are not rushing to the Putinistas land of milk and honey and all things that are good and that for some reason they prefer the evil empire. Why is this? Is Russia full of sheeple as well? Of course, I’m sure some of commenters would be welcomed with open arms if they are not there already.

  33. @Mark Golding, 8.55pm.

    Thanks for your kind comments, Mark.

    In retrospect I was probably pretty selfish, implying that I just wanted to get out of this loony bin before things get even worse.

    But it can get rather depressing at times, watching people fight over the planet like fleas fighting over who owns the dog.

    The bottom line is, though, that “Liberal Interventionism” – that hideous, dishonest euphemism – set a precedent and it could haunt the world for a long time to come unless international agreement draughts another Treaty of Westphalia-type document and sticks to it. Best wishes.

  34. “The US perinatal death rate is actually 40% higher than Russia.”

    ???? Russia 25/1,000, America 7/1,000 according to this:-

    http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2006/9241563206_eng.pdf

  35. Gosh = I know that and you know that. Not: I didn’t know that, what are we going to do?

    As in, “Gosh that was quick, and this little mite is crying his head off, can you pass me a clip for the umbilical please, you underestimated your aunty Ashton didn’t you?

  36. technicolour

    5 Mar, 2014 - 11:05 pm

    I’m a pacifist. I could kill. I find it dull and uncreative.

  37. Russia is full of people with a deep street knowledge of politics. They know its corrupt and will always be corrupt. We in the West pretend our politicians care about the people.
    The ones who leave are the rich.They’ve bought in big time here in Austria.Many of the new hotels are Russian.We don’t have that many murders,but there’s usually a Russian connection.
    One of my friends is an Uzbek from a prominent communist family, but Russian at heart. They are great story tellers. Listening to them makes one almost yearn for the old Soviet Union,but to listen ,you have to drink, and its vodka, and its hard.The Russians are not sheeple,far from it.Money has blinded many of them,that’s all.
    Putin is respected !Russia was being sold when he took power.He stopped the rot.
    And yes Habba, there is a bit of hero worship there.He is one of the few to stand up to the US plan for the planet.

  38. technicolour

    5 Mar, 2014 - 11:12 pm

    “Putin is respected !Russia was being sold when he took power.He stopped the rot.”

    The poor kept going to the wall while the gangsters took over and the FSB smiled, don’t you mean? Capitalism which had offered hope had, like any other ‘system’ delivered nothing, so the black windowed limos took over. Yabloko were crushed. Putin is just another person, another pawn in this machine, poor bloke.

  39. So Russia has a low life expectancy, it’s run by gangsters and the politicians are all corrupt.

    Sounds a lot like Glasgow to me.

  40. technicolour

    5 Mar, 2014 - 11:34 pm

    When did Glasgow have a power base which could assassinate journalists and destroy another country?

  41. technicolour

    Sounds like you’ve never been to Glasgow!

  42. technicolour

    5 Mar, 2014 - 11:44 pm

    how funny, but yes, I have. How many journalists has the power base in Glasgow assassinated? I won’t insult your intelligence by linking to the results of a google search on ‘journalists killed in Russia’ – there are too many links, anyway.

  43. “Sounds a lot like Glasgow to me.”

    ..and at a guess I don’t think you’d want them invading your country.

  44. technicolour

    5 Mar, 2014 - 11:55 pm

    Odd comment Kempe – who would you want to ‘invade your country’? Buddhists?

  45. Christof Lehman’s analysis is usually good. This article finishes with the following warning.

    “Conversation and Tape could be an “authentic” Plant: Some analysts, including nsnbc’s Christof Lehmann, however, warn that although the tape, admittedly, is genuine, it could be willfully planted by those EU leaders who may have been involved in organizing the violent coup, thus blaming “radical members of the opposition” while covering up their own involvement. nsnbc will follow up on the developments.”

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/03/05/busted-leaked-phone-tape-eus-ashton-reveals-kiev-snipers-hired-maidan-leaders/

    This is the first article I’ve read about the leak but still nothing on MSM.

  46. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:11 am

    Nuland’s mission accomplished!

    US $5 billion investment delivers costs to the EU of at least $15 billion in loans and grants.

    Well fucked you might say, but sure, weren’t they asking for it?

    “Fuck the Eu!” Mission accomplished!

    Victoria Nuland’s $5 billion investment delivers costs to the EU of at least $15 billion in loans and grants.

    Well fucked you might say, but sure, weren’t they asking for it?

  47. I’ve looked at the comments since I left earlier tonight and there appears to have been a concerted effort to steer the blog away from the big story that Alcanon first linked. That is what MSM are also doing. It is what they do. Don’t report it and it will go away. It will not go away.

    Wonder if even one MSM outlet will report it?

  48. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:12 am

    John Goss: thanks for that ‘we don’t know if anything’s true but we’re going to post it anyway’ thing.

  49. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:13 am

    Trowbridge made me do that made me do that made me do that.

    Goodnight All.

  50. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:20 am

    Ah Sofia, i used to, rather fondly, think you were ‘Crab’ or ‘thatcrab’ or at any rate someone whose range extended beyond attacking other commentators. But really you are a weird disinfo person, are you not? Anyway, good luck and good bye to you, whoever you are.

  51. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:22 am

    John Goss; what was the ‘big story’ to which Alcanon linked please?

  52. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:28 am

    Re tonight’s big story.

    An Irish documentary crew filmed identical behaviour during the 2002 US coup in Venezuela.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/revolution_will_not_be_televised/

    Plus ça change…all over again!

    Yes, I know I should be in bed.

  53. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:31 am

    yes, you should be in bed, or elsewhere, ‘Sofia’, if that’s all you can come up with.

  54. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:33 am

    Technicolour.

    “…you are a weird disinfo person, are you not?”

    Thanks for the endorsement.

    But can you explain how refering to Nuland’s $5 billion boast could be interpreted as disinfo. Was she lying maybe?

  55. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:34 am

    what are you trying to prove anyway, Sofia?

  56. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:35 am

    ok, what are you trying to prove, Sofia?

  57. Technicolour you did not read it then? You were not around this afternoon when the recorded telephone conversation which suggests that the snipers were from the Maidan thugs? It’s on the previous page.

  58. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:39 am

    Technicolour.

    ‘Sofia’, if that’s all you can come up with.

    My friend, is thet all you can come up with.

    I love your complements but please address the issue.

    Is there a pattern here of creating visceral outrage or not?

    You might care to watch the footage of the snipers in Venezuela before you reply.

  59. Tomorrow then!

  60. This is it reported in Ukrainian. I didn’t see a corresponding English link.

    http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/5/7017758/
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/politics/2014/03/140305_ashton_paet_maloveryan_it.shtml

    There was a report on 21 Feb that a sniper had been detained who shot at both sides. My Mum mentioned it at the time, concluding that this must have been done in order to portray the protesters as violent and armed so that the actions of Berkut could be justified. Speculation, of course.

    Results of Google search for “sniper shot at both sides” in Ukrainian:
    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80+%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%B2+%D0%B2+%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B2%D1%96+%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8

  61. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:49 am

    Technicolor.

    “ok, what are you trying to prove, Sofia?”

    WTF? Doesn’t it seem significant to you that the public boast of spending $5 billion on destabilising Ukraine coupled with the hacked phonecall in which the coup is being micro-managed isw completely ignored by the corporate media while the outrageous bloodless “invasion” by Putin (Prince of Darkness) is given wall to wall coverage.

    I’ll break my own rule here and make a solid claim…Not even you can be that dumb!

  62. Whilst I take the general point that Putin is acting like a dick, the avalanche of pro-bullshit propaganda has been astonishing. It really does remind me of pre-Iraq, and is truly disturbing. Almost every mainstream outlet, and even some less mainstream, is showing a credulousness that would befit an eager and curious child – but not a hardened journalist.

    Regardless of Putin, or whoever, our journalists have a responsibility to protect – protect us, as much as possible, from bullshit. I call this doctrine R2PFB, and think it might catch on. But the nonsense I am reading is just laughable, ignorant, Pravda-esque state cheerleading.

    Here’s how it is. Putin is a dick, who does bad stuff. This does NOT mean that we are angels. Scrutinize Putin, fine, but not at the expense of our own leadership. This doesn’t appear all that complicated, but could as well be typed in Martian, or Culture Marain, for all it’s understood, in certain journalistic circles. Embarrassing.

    Oh, and I had the pleasure of watching Democracy Now, and seeing Timothy Snyder argue that the Nuland leak proved that the US isn’t responsible for the coup. That was a mind-bender, for sure. Actually, rather plausible, in a way, but I’m not buying it.

  63. BrianFujisan

    6 Mar, 2014 - 1:02 am

    Afore you go John…

    Look where the BBC placed the story of the leaked phone call on snipers in Kiev (clue: buried half-way down)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26444747

  64. Arsen Avakov, head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine: “Bloody events in Kiev were provoked by a non-Ukrainian 3rd force”. The article attributes to him also a statement that there is an extensive investigation underway that will reveal “who was shooting, when, and what were the orders” but he believes that a “key role was played by a 3rd force, and this force was not Ukrainian”.

    http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/4/7017541/

  65. wish someone in UK could help to identify the SECRETIVE “forensic experts” company in this highly-propagandised beeb piece by gabriel gatehouse. Qinetiq maybe?

    had to endure lengthy Citibank ad before the interview started. approx 6 minutes.

    25 Feb: VIDEO: BBC: Ukraine crisis: British forensic experts in Kiev
    British forensic experts are in Kiev to help establish responsibility for the deaths of dozens of protesters, mostly killed by Ukrainian government snipers.
    The investigators – who do not wish to be identified – say they have already pinpointed four sniper positions.
    The Foreign Office declined to comment on whether the UK government was assisting in the investigation…
    The experts did not want to reveal their identities or who had tasked them with the investigation, saying it was a politically sensitive issue…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26333525

  66. The Cathy Ashton/Urmas Paet bugged telephone call had had over 500,000 hits in the 18 or so hours since it was uploaded on youtube. MSM here really behind the curve on this.

  67. Daily Mail one of the few carrying the report in any detail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573923/Was-massacre-started-Ukraine-revolution-ordered-new-leaders-Leaked-tape-says-Maidan-snipers-NOT-control-ousted-president-opposition-drove-power.html

    Was ‘massacre’ which started Ukraine revolution ordered by the new leaders? Leaked tape says Maidan snipers were NOT under control of ousted president but opposition which drove him from power

    The snipers that started the Ukrainian revolution by firing on anti-government protesters in Kiev were given orders by the same group, it was claimed yesterday.

    Rather than being hired by President Viktor Yanukovych, the snipers were in fact controlled by opposition figures, according to a leaked phone conversation apparently between a senior EU official and an Estonian politician.

    The 11-minute call is said to be between the EU’s foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonia’s foreign affairs minister Urmas Pae.

    Top rated comment on the article

    Dave Smith, London, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago

    We are supporting some very shady people who ousted a democratically elected government, and are now proceding to sell off Ukraine’s natural resources to globalists.

  68. OldMark – are MSM ever ahead of the curve? There have a built-in delay for anything truthful that might harm their masters.

    Hey! agent Cameron – Where is the Chilcot report? How long do you need to redact on anything inimical to national security?

  69. Craig,

    “But the civil wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone were not a spontaneous outbreak of human evil, they were caused by the massive corruption of ruling coastal elites in both Sierra Leone and neighbouring Liberia, compared to the appalling poverty and lack of basic services and education for those in the hinterland. It is one of the ironies of history that the elites were the descendants of slaves returned with the very best of intentions by the US and UK, educated and given much charitable provision, who controlled the state and then set to exploiting the hinterland tribes ruthlessly from the “hut wars” of the 1880′s on.”

    I agree with you on this comment. Oppressed descendants become oppressors.

    CB

  70. Blegburnduddoo

    6 Mar, 2014 - 2:57 am

    Thank you Peter 45 at 10.21am 5 March. It is a pity Craig didn’t read it before posting his disappointing pieces.
    I agree with Andrew at 3.56p.m. Paul Craig Roberts is one of the very few people worth reading on this or any other subject.

  71. Regarding snipers shooting both sides, Mary originally linked to an aangirfan post on 2 Mar, 8:36 pm:

    http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/nato-troops-shot-both-sides-in-ukraine.html

    I followed it up, and posted these:

    Could I someone to do some research from here please:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tsariov

    The aangirfan article is partly based on the testimony of “Ukrainian lawmaker” Oleg Tsarev, “a Dnipropetrovsk businessman and People’s Deputy of Ukraine for the Party of Regions” (Wikipedia). But on the History page, things like this keep being added and removed:

    “Hand of the Kremlin” in the Supreme Council of Ukraine. A Traitor To Ukraine.

    The aangirfan article that Mary linked to has the headline

    “‘NATO TROOPS SHOT BOTH SIDES IN UKRAINE’ – REPORT”

    but the links in the article don’t actually support that. Here’s a Google Translation for the first. Sorry about the link; it’s full of special character codes:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25A1%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D1%258B%2B%2522%25D0%259E%25D0%25BC%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B3%25D0%25B8%2522%2B%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D1%258F%25D1%2582,%2B%25D1%2587%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE%2B%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B5%2B%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BB%25D1%258F%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B8%2B%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%2B%25D0%259C%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B5%2B%25D0%25B8%2B%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B0%25D1%258F%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BB%25D1%258F%25D1%258E%25D1%2582%2B%25D0%25BE%2B%2522%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B5%25D1%2582%25D1%258C%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B5%2522%26safe%3Doff&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=ru&u=http://rus.newsru.ua/ukraine/21feb2014/tretia_sila.html
    Former head of intelligence: a third force, which provokes both sides
    Publication time: 21 February 2014 09:49
    last update: February 21, 2014, 11:01

    Acts on Maidan third force, which provokes both parties, their representatives and shoot at protesters. This opinion was expressed by former Head of Intelligence Skipalsky Alexander in an interview to “Kommersant-Ukraine” .

    “MIA actually pretends not to notice how under his nose are criminal groups agreed with certain authorities. Therefore, most law enforcement officers who work on the Maidan, disoriented and not fully understand what is happening. And” maydanovtsy “too, apparently, do not understand that a third force operating here, which provokes both sides.’s this third force, and there are terrorists in the full sense of the word. Because they work in order to intimidate the population,” – he said.

    He said that under the “third force” refers to the mercenaries.

    “It bandits who shoot for the money people. SBU and MIA should detain them, but they, unfortunately, do not … I think it’s mercenaries,” – said the former head of General Intelligence.

    “It bandits who shoot for the money people” should probably read “It’s bandits who shoot people for money”, at a guess. I didn’t post the second link from aangirfan, but that didn’t accuse NATO personnel either.

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:03 am

    Population of Russia

    “Actually it’s not so much the Russian life expectancy that’s the problem. It’s the birth rate.”
    ______________________

    No, it is both: Russian birth rate is well under replacement rate (=2) and, as Kempe demonstrated, Russian males are dying ever younger.

    Furthermore, other countries with a birth rate under replacement make up for it through immmigration. As Resident Dissident pointed out yesterday,(22h30), this compensatory factor does not apply in Russia.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “The US perinatal death rate is actually 40% higher than Russia”
    ______________________

    This comparison, even if true (and Kempe has provided figures showing the contrary) is irrelevant.

    US population has grown steadily, that of Russia is dropping. Why are some commenters unable to accept this simple fact? It’s all very Soviet (5 year plans, etc…)

  73. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:16 am

    “Victoria Nuland’s $5 billion investment delivers costs to the EU of at least $15 billion in loans and grants.”
    ___________________

    Ah ha! Another dastardly American conspiracy exposed by intrepid commentators!

    Actually, this particular band of conspiracists could have added the followinhg (just for context, you know): the EU’s current five year Financial Framework contains appropriations for commitment of slightly under €1000 million; it contains various lines providing for precisely this ki,nd of expenditure; thuis expenditure is a mix of grants (non-repayable) and loans (repayable with interest) in which loans largely outweigh outright grants.

    Some brushing up of knowledge required here, methinks.

  74. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:21 am

    “the public boast of spending $5 billion on destabilising Ukraine”
    _________________

    I’ve already given the verbatim of what AS Nuland said twice. Happy to give it a third time, but, at the risk of social services intervening, it might be more productive if someone tapped it into your thick skull in Morse code with a little nail hammer.

  75. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:24 am

    On reflection : rather than looking at the Russian birth and male life expectancy rates, perhaps we should be looking at the ‘tosh rate’ on this thread. That is certainly increasing :)

  76. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:48 am

    Dad!

    “ …band of conspiracists…mumble…grurmng…some brushing up of knowledge required here, methinks.”

    For once you wrote something that makes sense!

    Now go and brush up.

    “In an eight minute, 46 second speech at the National Press Club sponsored by the US-Ukraine Foundation, Chevron, and Ukraine-in-Washington Lobby Group, Nuland boasted that Washington has spent $5 billion to foment agitation to bring Ukraine into the EU. Once captured by the EU, Ukraine will be “helped” by the West acting through the IMF.”
    From: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/21/is-ukraine-drifting-toward-civil-war/

    I know Dr Bullstrode said I wasn’t to do anything to get you agitated, but what the hell!

  77. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 7:54 am

    BTW Dad, have you noticed the stench of anti-semitism emenating from our little friends in Kiev? I know it might be a bit too subtle for you to notice but I’d love for you to check it out and let us know what you think. Maybe they don’t really mean it…just a cry for help, or something.

    I’m sure they’d love for you to occupy their online forums too.

  78. Sofia Kibo Noh

    6 Mar, 2014 - 8:04 am

    The boycott of Israeli academic institutions gathers momentum.

    http://naisa.org/node/719

    They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they never kept but one; they promised to take our land, and they took it.
    Red Cloud

  79. Black jelly

    6 Mar, 2014 - 8:14 am

    Clark – Rest assured when goyim are sniped like cattle the perpetrators can only be the chosen. There were 850k of em devils following Rabbi Ovadia cortege, they know a goyim (even one like CM) is a worthless piece of shite !

  80. Kempe; “Here you go Doug:-”

    It would have been more honest if your link had mentioned the little matter of Orwell later effectively recanting his earlier position on Pacifism, being the one which you chose to quote:

    http://www.idiocentrism.com/orwell.htm

  81. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 8:34 am

    That’ll be Victoria “Fuck The EU” (it’s what she said, don’t blame me) Nuland? Wife of Robert Kagan? Who he?

    http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/kagan_robert

    That’s Robert (PNAC) Kagan. Foisted on the Brookings Institution to swing it further towards….you’re ahead of me aren’t you?

    ‘Speculating on why Brookings might wish to bring on Kagan, who has a track record of supporting Mideast policies in line with right-wing hawks in Israel and the United States, Steve Clemons wrote that the “move is important for Brookings as the institution has been working hard to get Haim Saban to give another large infusion of resources to his namesake unit, the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, at Brookings. Securing Kagan is one way that Brookings may have sweetened the pot for Saban who is according to one Brookings source ‘painfully flamboyant’ about using his money to try and influence the DC establishment through think tanks and other vehicles to secure Israel-first, Israel-defending policies out of Washington.”‘

    Nuland herself is Cheney’s former deputy security advisor.

  82. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 8:53 am

    A little history.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2004/12/ron-paul/what-has-ned-done-in-ukraine/

    ‘President Bush is absolutely correct (!!! – BZ): elections in Ukraine should be free of foreign influence. It is our job here and now to discover just how far we have violated this very important principle, and to cease any funding of political candidates or campaigns henceforth.’

    Freedom House gets a mention here, too. Ostensibly a good egg, its former board members include Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Samuel Huntington, Mara Liasson, Otto Reich, Donald Rumsfeld, Whitney North Seymour, Paul Wolfowitz, Steve Forbes, and Bayard Rustin. Some familiar names there.

    Possibly the same names Craig was thinking of when he wrote ‘that the executive director of Freedom House told him in 2003 that the group decided to back off from its efforts to spotlight human rights abuses in Uzbekistan, because some Republican board members (in Murray’s words) “expressed concern that Freedom House was failing to keep in sight the need to promote freedom in the widest sense, by giving full support to U.S. and coalition forces’

    (Wikipedia, Freedom House, indirectly citing ‘Dirty Diplomacy’ by Craig)

  83. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 9:26 am

    Further to all that – Craig, if you’re still reading this, what’s your take on the appointment by the US of obvious far-right ideologues to sensitive diplomatic positions?

    In conjunction with the funding of parties selected by the said ideologues, doesn’t that really give Putin as much aid and comfort as he needs?

  84. Craig
    What is the point of repeating the msm spin about Russian “invasion” of Ukraine. It makes as much sense as repeatedly talking of a US invasion of Cuba from the Quamtanamo base. Cannot you see the absurdity of your assertion or do you just want to please your Halibbabucus-type admirers?

    Spraying lead equally and liberally to both sides is an old habit for rascals who want to blame governments for killing their “own people”. Even those with a mild dementia may recall that this technique was used successfully at the onset of the war in Syria and repeatedly in Venezuela.

  85. Wife of Robert Kagan? Who he?

    The author in 2003 of the most over praised endorsement of neo con foreign policy in general, and the Iraq ‘liberation’ in particular (‘Paradise and Power’), that’s who.

    Those who give this screed lavish praise at the time include-
    Jonathan Freedland
    Brendan Simms
    Johann Hari (what happened to that little squirt ?)
    Henry Kissinger
    John McCain
    Tim Garton Ash

    All the usual suspects

  86. As I’m in Orwell mode, I wonder if the inability of some to accept probably nefarious Western involvement in the Ukraine, is expained here;

    “All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. . . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

    http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

  87. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 10:02 am

    Here’s Nuland having a cheesy grin with Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda.

    http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140208&t=2&i=836496148&w=580&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=CDEEA17148J00

    Here’s Svoboda’s original logo (to 2009)

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/I%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F_N%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D1%97.svg/170px-I%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F_N%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D1%97.svg.png

    No surprise, then that ‘in 2004, Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia,”[48] and celebrated the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists for having fought “Moscovites, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.” ‘ (ibid)

    Nuland (her parents were called Nudelmann, ) is Jewish.

    Strange bedfellows indeed.

  88. In the list I gave above of Robert Kagan’s cheerleedears a decade back, I hesitated before mentioning Garton Ash; in the early 80s, when based in Warsaw for the Speccie, he was courageous reporter on the rise and fall of Solidarnosc.

    Sadly, he’s turned out plenty of bilge more recently.

  89. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 11:02 am

    Very, very surprisingly, even the BNP identifies the wooing of the Ukrainian loony Right by the US as being undesirable. I balk at linking to the site but Jack Dempsey’s 25 Feb piece there can be googled – he comes to some very defensible conclusions. The BNP seems to have gone off globalist elites…

  90. Putin is quite canny; seems to be going his way. Interesting that a referendum can be got up from scratch in 10 days.

  91. Brian Fujisan at 1:02 a.m.

    Already gone to bed. Sorry. Thanks for the link. The important message is that MSM and their masters are trying to kill this all-important story like certain known detractors on this blog. Nothing still mentioned on any TV channel I’ve watched but they will have to address it eventually. This is the message of the BBC article. Like you say marginalised and biased in its presentation. Quoting the Estonian Foreign minister, Paet, who has obviously been “trod on.”

    “I call for journalists to treat this recording very carefully. I was talking about the theories there were about what happened in Ukraine,” he said.

    He actually did not mention it as one of many theories. It was the only one he mentioned as far as I can recall.

  92. Sergei Pashinsky of the ‘Batkivshchyna’ is my main suspect and should be investigated. He was in the Timoshenko government and a suspected Nazi. Considering the sniper is likely from the opposition Pashinsky was caught by his own people with a rifle and silencer in the boot of his car. Apologies for it being in Russian.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3e0_1392899402

  93. Liz Wahl & Abby Martin were impressive.

  94. Ba'al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 11:50 am

    Should insert a fairly large spanner into everyone’s works –

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962

  95. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:18 pm

    Wow, the useful fools, led by BarbaraBubZel are in full flow this morning. Very agitated. Argument going against them, perhaps? No war about to start? (sob, sob!)

  96. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:25 pm

    Monsieur Goss

    “He actually did not mention it as one of many theories.”
    ______________________

    Do you think he should have said “there are many theories about and/but I shall recount one of them”?

    Alternatively, do you think that there might have been many theories about but that this one was the only one he heard and/or thought worth mentioning? I mean, if you were Trowbridge, you’d probably theorize that the snipers were Mossad, led in person by Bibi, but I’m not sure that Minister Paet, intelligent and sane as he is, would consider that worth mentioning to Mrs Ashton.

    *******************$

    “Life is getting better, life is getting merrier!” (J. Stalin, ca. 1932)

  97. Ba'al Zevul (Even Mail Hacks Don't Read The Mail)

    6 Mar, 2014 - 12:37 pm

    Here’s why we are less than enthusiastic about sanctioning pro-Yanukovych oligarchs:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10655081/The-Ukrainian-oligarchs-living-it-large-in-London.html

    Nice pic of Pinchuk. Lovely friends he’s got –

    http://pinchukfund.org/en/news/4001/

    Buggerlugs, “Argument going against them, perhaps? No war about to start? (sob, sob!)”

    Please cite the post/s implying a desire for war. Please summarise the notional ‘argument’ against which you place ‘them’. Please acknowledge that ‘their’ views are as valid as yours, and sometimes based on wider reading.

    “Led by” ? Shall we compare post counts?

  98. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 1:01 pm

    In the case of the fake snipers in Venezuela, there was a clearly democratic hero – Chavez – being set up by clearly corrupt & ruthless demagogues. The US were, to no-one’s surprise, supporting the latter.

    How does this have any relevance to Ukraine? And if anyone’s about to say ‘well, it shows what the US are capable of’ please don’t. I am all too aware of what the US and UK governments are capable of!

  99. technicolour

    6 Mar, 2014 - 1:21 pm

    Two more takes on Ukraine. I have never been to Ukraine and know nothing about Ukraine and am not endorsing these links in any way, you understand. But it seems clear that quite a few people here know an awful lot about it, so they might like to comment.

    NB If anyone is capable of producing a little flow chart outlining the chief participants and the time line of events that would be extremely helpful.

    1) http://wearechange.org/leaked-phone-call-kiev-snipers-hired-us-backed-opposition/

    2)It’s all about fracking (and GM)

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/what-is-the-endgame-the-break-up-of-ukraine/5371710

  100. “We witnessed Putin’s games corrupted”

    Guess who was the last political leader who gave his name to the Olympic Games.

    Clue he didn’t give a role to his mistress in lighting the flame.

  101. John Goss

    Why do you thing we are all of a sudden being presented with all these recordings of bugged telephone calls and various conspiracy theories. Clue: the answer to the question is one that distinguishes between “useful idiots ” and “fellow travellers”.

  102. One of the last things Orwell ever wrote was addressed to Ukrainians

    http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/epfc_go

    It leaves little doubt as to where Orwell would have stood on the current state of affairs in the Ukraine – except to the useful idiots.

  103. “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

    Oh so true – but don’t you think that there might be a few Russian nationalists around. What about the lie that all those invasion troops without insignia are not Russian?

  104. “John Goss

    Why do you think we are all of a sudden being presented with all these recordings of bugged telephone calls and various conspiracy theories. Clue: the answer to the question is one that distinguishes between “useful idiots ” and “fellow travellers”.”

    The truth is we are not all of a sudden being presented with recordings and bugged telephone calls. It has been going on for 24 hours with very little mention in the most powerful media outlets. We only got to know because of the alternative media. Why do you think that is? Clue: somebody owns our media. Who? Clue: somebody with money, who pays for what news is good for us. And yes, I know it’s the same in the Russian media.

  105. Ba’al Zevul (The Bear Shall Not Have Constantinople)

    Thanks for pointing out that the old blue eyes “Nuland (her parents were called Nudelmann,) is Jewish.” Hmm, such a nice name, nudelman and now all is lost. Why do these chameleonic Khazars always change their names?
    I would not take the “antisemitism”, ostentatively displayed by the strange bedfellows of that slippery “nudel”, all that seriously. That “Yat” has for a Russian or an Ukranian a strange name. The first name Arsenij is odd and Jaceniuk sounds like a corrupted version of Isak – Itzak . Those familiar with Polish, like our in house linguist halibabacus, may enjoy some comments on the ethnicity of this Yat. See –

    http://wiadomosci.gazeta. pl/wiadomosci/51,114871,1535e sth8275.html?i=1&v=1&obxx=15358275nship

    The newly-appointed Dnepropetrovsk governor, Igor Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian -Israeli citizenship, which is possibly the best evidence for the antisemitic orientation of the new masters in Kiev.

  106. apology, the link should be

    http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/51,114871,1535e sth8275.html?i=1&v=1&obxx=15358275nship

  107. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 5:13 pm

    Karel

    Have you finally got your link right, or should we all wait a little longer?

    PS – Carneval time again! What are you disguised as this time: a braying ass or a giant-sized Italian nudel?

  108. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 5:17 pm

    Mr Goss

    “The truth is we are not all of a sudden being presented with recordings and bugged telephone calls. It has been going on for 24 hours”
    _________________

    Mr Goss, you are timeless (if not peerless) : 24 hours is not all of a sudden.?

    What, in your book, is all of a sudden? Fifteen minutes? Two hours? Half a day?

  109. la vita in culo,

    I will ask you next time

  110. Halibaba in culo

    Well,well carnival. In case you forgot, purim will start this year on 16th March and if you have not decided yet what to do, may I suggest that you dress up like a Haman’s prick to give the more progressive part of our society something to nible on. Please write about it at a great length in your inimitable style so that we can all share the immeasurable joy of your experience.

  111. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    6 Mar, 2014 - 8:11 pm

    Karel

    Always good to hear from you. How are you? And how’s your Italian coming along – are you past Chapter 3 yet?

    **********************$

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  112. Karel

    I would be interested to know what your link said. Something like “The Ukraine parliament agreed to an amnesty. The opposition was not included. It’s illegal”?

    Can you throw any light on what is happening regarding the increase in UK jets to Polish bases in the Polish newspapers? Are are they not aware in Poland?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26466250

    I’ll be back later.

  113. Looks like I’ve got the place to myself. Good thing too before the others arrive to tell me that the jets were going to Lithuania and personnel to Poland.

  114. Ba'al Zevul (Let's Nuke Russia! (Everett Mix))

    7 Mar, 2014 - 9:01 am

    ‘Can you throw any light on what is happening regarding the increase in UK jets to Polish bases in the Polish newspapers? Are are they not aware in Poland?’

    They’re US jets (as if it made any difference!) – Lakenheath is a US base. A lot of F15 flying going on over the last three days or so. Very little activity from our own Tornadoes or Typhoons locally, though.

  115. Ba'al Zevul (Let's Nuke Russia! (Everett Mix))

    7 Mar, 2014 - 9:13 am

    ‘Arseniy’ (Arsenij) is a common Russian/Ukrainian name, Karel. I’m surprised it isn’t common in Poland too. Yatsenyuk himself indeed comes from a Jewish family – Wikipedia is still my friend – but I think this is less relevant to his Western backers (or anyone else) than his enthusiasm for global capitalism: he’s a –

    ‘Cavalier of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise Fifth Class – awarded on 7 February 2008 for significant personal contribution to the integration of Ukraine into the World Trade Organization’

    Follow the money….

  116. Black jelly

    7 Mar, 2014 - 3:01 pm

    Is international law for all, except for Britain and the USA? Andrew Murray replies to the Economist article, Britain and Ukraine: Fisking Stop the War.

    The Economist is the high priest of Anglo-Saxon hypocrisy – it preaches a free market for all, but backed “socialism for the banks” when the City needed a bailout. It is no more consistent on world politics – international law for all, except for Britain and the USA. In response to the recent article written by Stop the War Convenor Lindsey German (10 things to remember about the crisis in Ukraine and Crimea), an Economist blogger identified only as “JC”, decided to “Fisk” Stop the War (Britain and Ukraine: Fisking Stop the War). It was quite revealing. Here are ten things JC got wrong:

    1)“Neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Kerry ‘invaded’ Afghanistan or Iraq,” JC begins. No, but Britain and the USA did – and it was an invasion, no quotation marks are necessary. The Iraq war, like the Yugoslav one in 1999, was undertaken clearly in violation of international law, against countries making no threats to the USA or Britain, and without any UN sanction. The Economist may take a view that these bloody violations of international law are acceptable, while Putin’s so-far bloodless occupation of the Crimea is an outrage, but not many outside the snug circles of the Anglosphere elite will be found to agree. If the magazine genuinely wants a law-based world with all disputes resolved through negotiation and the United Nations, then it cannot continue to make exceptions for the likes of Bush and Blair – at least not if it wants to be taken seriously.

    2)JC’s description of Yeltsin as a “modernising” premier (he was in fact President not premier) is perhaps the most absurd contention. Under the stewardship of the inebriated Yeltsin, Russia’s economy shrank by half, its state assets were handed over to the emerging oligarchy in a corrupt privatisation process, no functioning party-political system was created and in the end Yeltsin could only be persuaded to leave office under cover of an amnesty for himself and his family for his venal crimes. His foreign policy choices also stored up immense trouble for his successors, as is being seen today. If this is modernisation, it sure makes the case for tradition.

    3)JC is most concerned to minimise the role of the Far-Right in the new Kiev government. But a leader of Svoboda, an overtly neo-nazi party which has been likened to Greece’s Golden Dawn, and which speaks of Ukraine being in the grip of “Jewish-Bolshevik”, Russians is Deputy Prime Minister. Another party member holds the top post in the legal system. Two others control ministerial portfolios – the first return of neo-nazis to government in Europe since 1945. A further far-right group, Right Front, has apparently replaced the police on the streets of Kiev. Of course, there are other less noxious forces involved, if that description fits the corrupt clique around Yulia Tymoshenko, but strain as it might, The Economist can hardly pass this new, unelected, regime in Kiev off as a Reform Club outing.

    4)The Economist deludes itself that MPs left “military action on the table against Assad”, when they voted against war last August. That seems like neo-con wishful thinking. But surely the salient point is that in rejecting a further attack on a Middle Eastern country, MPs were expressing a strong, settled and cross-party majority in the country.

    5)The Economist critic can’t understand why Lindsey German raised the matter of US use of drones against targets in Pakistan and elsewhere. Surely if the violation of national sovereignty is the matter of concern, then this is a clear example of it (which the Economist supports). And as for it being of a different order of priorities to the Crimea crisis, this says more about Economist values than anything else. Drones have killed hundreds at least, including many entirely innocent and unintended targets. Happily, Russian troops in the Crimea have killed nobody yet.

    6)On the basis of who knows what evidence, the Economist attests to “the overwhelmingly liberal attitude of most Maidan protesters”. So the police killed in the square were done to death by readings of John Stuart Mill? Even the Estonian Foreign Minister, no friend of Russia we can assume, has now been recorded telling EU Foreign Policy chief Cathy Ashton that the snipers were most likely involved with the opposition, as well as elements of the departed regime.

    7)Apparently the EU is “the antithesis of….economic stagnation”. Tell that to those enduring EU (and IMF) ordered slump in Greece, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. And as for corruption, let’s revisit that issue when the EU can get its annual accounts signed off by the auditors. Don’t hold your breath.

    8)JC exercises himself to prove that John McCain, leading the hawks over Ukraine, is no neo-con. Alas, all his examples of McCain’s relative reasonableness are of considerable antiquity. For the last several years he has been leading the charge for a military response by the US to almost every crisis – Georgia most notably, Iraq, Libya, Iran. He is for sure a war-monger. As his friend, Time journalist Joe Klein wrote recently: “There was a time when John McCain was a reasonable man. It was a while back, but I remember it well.”

    9)There is, the Economist assures us, no threat to Russian-speakers in the Crimea. Then why the vote in the Kiev Rada to downgrade the official use of the Russian language. Why the introduction of a bill to decriminalise Nazi propaganda?

    10)A big power intervenes in a neighbouring state to put down a movement for democracy and support a corrupt autocracy in violation of international law, with loss of life and considerable arrests, torture and imprisonment. Oh, wait… That was Saudi Arabia invading Bahrain… And no, JC didn’t mention it.

    Source: Stop the War Coalition

    See also by Andrew Murray: Imperialism’s dilemmas over the Ukraine…

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