Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22286

The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

22,286 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis

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  • Ricki Tarr

    I still feel the reason our Operation Mince Meat’s own William Martin was there was for security for the family, it was mentioned somewhere the other day that this type of family with these connections and especially if SAH worked for an intelligence agency wouldnt have been allowed to ramble around europe!

    The house is a safe house and I would doubt that we could hire the property, shall I give it a go? is the webiste back up?

  • Ferret


    The fact that you do not actually engage with any of the points that I have made, and simply continue to rant and rave like a madman, only reinforces what I am saying.

    Your viewpoint is simply driven by a violent and radical hatred of Jews, and is not based on anything in reality.

    If your thesis is that Israel is the problem, you must answer why were there so many (and such continous) wars before Israel even existed, or was even thought of. (Not why or how you think Israel has contributed to any current situation.)

  • Katie

    >>>>>>> To all.

    I have been communicating with the beeb since seeing the prog about this, the stun gun & the missing years of AH.

    Anyone whose tried to track down something within the beeb will know how difficult it is to find the right person, one that actually reads what is written,here this one is asking for the details……all of which were supplied in my first email to her !!!
    So after a number of tries I’ve received this today.
    I have replied but ignored the request for information about this site…what do I do ?

    Re: News item 8/10/12 on Al Hilli murders.

    Thanks for your reply. I would need to know the time and channel and programme.
    Meanwhile please tell me more about the nature of your forum. What is it called and who sponsors it?

    It might well be worth you and Tom having a chat.

    Carol Rubra
    UK Affairs Assignment Editor


    Tom, is Tom Symonds who I think was the presenter that night & I am awaiting a reply from him..

  • Katie

    “Lebanese Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah acknowledged on Thursday sending a drone aircraft that was shot down last weekend after flying some 55 km into Israel.

    Nasrallah said in a televised speech that the drone’s parts were manufactured in Iran and it was assembled by members of the Shi’ite Muslim militant movement in Lebanon. He confirmed a statement by Israel’s prime minister earlier in the day saying that Hezbollah was behind the drone flight. ”

  • Ricki Tarr

    So Sadamms daughter is wanted for Terrorism by interpol and is suspected of organising a coup in Iraq, do you think this may go along with SAH’s beliefs?

    She was married to Hussein Kamal Al-Majid a high profile Iraqi defector who ran their Nuclear program and sold secrets to the CIA and Mi6

    From above link:
    What happened next is a matter of legend in Iraq. …dozens of security officers…surrounded the home at al-Sayidiyah. Another security team brought a busload of Hussein Kamel’s relatives and friends to a nearby knoll, from which they would be forced to watch the terrible events that were about to unfold. At dawn, a fierce gun battle broke out. Hussein Kamel and his fmaily tried to defend themselves…most inside were dead, including Hussein Kamel’s brother, his father, his sister, his nephew, and several bodyguards. The attackers stormed the mansion dragged the wounded Hussein Kamel outside, and executed him in front of his relatives. It is rumored that they were told: “Let this be a lesson that no traitors will be allowed to live”.

  • Felix

    Thank you. Any connection with this? Strange phone nos
    btw, look back for Whitehead in thread. Aviation business Chichester-Portsmouth area. Registered Chez Quinze-cinq.

    Date of the article is 5 June 2003. That would make her a 74 year old grandmother by now! (no connection of course) Extraction?
    What is your link to the BBC prog? What is the gist of your query?

    I find your theory very appealing. Ticks more boxes than most.

  • phil t

    @the risk of being boring/repetitive
    … someone has to (re-)state the ‘possibility’ that this was …
    A ‘british state (sponsored) assas(s)ination’, because …
    That is a ‘possibility’
    (When the’facts’ are ‘uncertain’ / generally ‘unknown’)
    – that is the way ‘real'(sic)/’professional'(sic) ‘intelligence’ (sic) agencies actually work …

  • NR

    I vote for you giving the BBC the address of this site. We’ll all be famous and you are our agent? How do we divvy up, so much per word? I need a new head shot, not a double tap, for my avatar.

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    Answer to Ferret:

    After the Second World War we sought to build a better world, and in many ways succeded. The United Nations was part of this. Who has been the greatest underminer of The united Nations credibility – AFTER it itself had been recognised by….the UN?.

    The table below will probably convince you that the creation of Israel was NOT one of those things that helped bring about a better world. [It is also from a survival point of view stupid to be so many together in such a small place – then it is better to be distributed all over the world. And today the land of the Free will be the preferred destination for many, after a referendum is held between the River Jordan and the Meditaerranean about how this place should be governed, like the right honoured President of Israel, ahmadinejad, has proposed many times].

    Take a look at the table below. If Israel had been closed down in, say 1965, none of the following would have happened:

    1967: 250.000 Palestinians forced to flee with Arafat and the rest of their leaders. The humiliation and defeat of the Arab forces in that war 1) prompts the Palestinians to take the matter into their own hands, seing that noone else are able to fight for them and 2) leads to a new phenomenon: Militant Islam, as people all over the Arab world turn to the mosques for the answers that the secular leaders have shown they were unable to provide.

    1970: (September) The Palestinian leadership and a few thousand fighters are kicked out of Jordan, which they had tried to take over. This has two consequences: 1) They flee to Lebanon, where they apparently have a negative influence on the Civil War there. What is certain is that the Civil War starts in 1975 – after they have arrived. And their activities prompts Israel to invade Lebanon in 1978 and again in 1982. Here they encounter and even greater and better organised foe: Hezbollah, founded in 1982 with the explicit goal of kicking the israelis out of Lebanon, which they succeed doing in 2000. 2) It triggers the biggest and most serious terror-campaign the world have ever seen, far out-dwarfing recent hype about — for the most part — non-existing terror. The world sees aircraft-hijackings for the first time on a grand scale, and the hostage-taking of eleven Israeli atletes at the Olympic Games in Munich in 1972. ‘Only’ two got killed by the hostage-takers; the remaining nine, five out of eight hostage-takers and one west-german police-officer are killed in the ensuing gunfight, after the two helicopters — just given in accordance to an agreement about free transfer away — cowardly and amateurish are attacked by West-german police.

    1973: The Arabs turn the tap in protest against unilateral Western support for Israel in the October-war of that year. This triggers the most severe recession since thee Depression, with prices of all raw-materials — not just oil — rising 4 times, followed by the quadroubling of the price of goods and subsequently a quadroubling of salaries. In an attempt to counter the effects of the recession, governments all over the world takes on loans on an unprecedented scale, some of which are still running, – albeit often in a refinanced form.

    1982: 1.700 Palestinian women, children and non-weapon carrying men are killed by Christian Falangists in the Sabra Chatilla refugee camp-ara, while Israeli troops are keeping watch close by. All in all 17.000 people, most of them Palestinians are killed in Lebanon during Israels presence there. This was before the Internet and the rapid distribution of news; today they would not have been able to get away with it.

    1983: The deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima occurs when a suicide truck-bomb rams the barracks at Beirut International Airport and kills 241 marrines. Needless to say the Americans got dragged in due to the Israelis onheard-of advance right up to Beirut. This was the first time the Americans abandoned their principle of never to intervene directly anywhere in the Arab world, but instead ‘hover over the horizon’. The second was Iraq.

    1987: The first Intifada. For the first time it dawns on the world that there exist another people in the area, that have had their human rights abused and spat on. Israel tries frantically to quell the unrest with great brutality;

    1996: Israel under PM and Nobel-laureate, now President, Shimon Peres shells a UN-camp in Qana, the same town where Jesus turned water into wine,- where 102 civilians are hiding, resulting in their death.

    2000:Ariel Sharon takes a walk on the Holy Temple Mount, triggering the Second Intifada.

    2001: (September)The WTC and Pentagon are attacked by flying fuel-bombs. The Congress was the target as well, because, to quote the official 9/11 report: “It was the greatest source of support for Israel in the US”. The architect of the attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s, animosity towards The United states stemmed not from his time there as a student, but because of his violent opposition to U.S. support for Israeli policies towards the Palestinians. If you wish to include other motives, the secondmost important such, was US troops continued stay on holy Saudi soil after the end of hostilities following The Gulf War in 1991. King Fahd had been promised that they would be withdrawn immediately after the war. The guy who was responsibly for their continued stay was the superzionist and -lobbyist Martin Indyk — an Australian jew, and US-citizen from 1993,– later US ambassador to Israel.

    2001: (October) The invasion of Afghanistan would not have happened without 9/11.

    2003: The invasion of Iraq, would not have happened without 9/11 (see above) and not without the prodding of Israel, and particularly The Israel lobby.

    2003: Israels onslaught on the PA’s headquarters in Ramallah.

    2006: Israel kills 1.100 Lebanese in a brutal onslaught of Lebanon, cripling its infrastructure.

    2008-09: Israel kills more than 1.300 Palestinians in its brutal onslaught of Gaza.

  • Ricki Tarr

    @Phil – I have come around to thinking more and more that this was a UK hit, I have totally shifted from thsi being a Mossad hit – they seem to leave more calling cards as a warning to others that they can get to them anywhere!

    A motorbike is definatley teh Mossads MO though, hand gun is their MO also, youd think with a public appeal that they would have released CCTV stills of the bike or 4×4 and pictures of the family leading up to the incident!

    The gun points to a modified weapon! where is that Ballistics report?

    Give the BBC the address I think we have more leads than most even if some of them do send them up the garden path! silver fern alown at 55 would be enough to suggest this stinks!

  • Katie

    Felix, of which are you talking,that Mail article has now ‘Service Unavailable’ but if you mean the mother,yes ? Then did she get asylum with those two daughters, I can’t believe she would be refused.

    Eldest daughter below.

    April 05, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff

    Raghad Hussein, seen in a 2007 photo, is wanted by Iraqi authorities on terrorism charges.
    The international police organization Interpol has stepped up the hunt for Saddam Hussein’s eldest daughter, who is wanted by Iraqi authorities on terrorism charges.Interpol posted a picture on of Raghad Hussein, 41

    That photo was taken in 2007 , not that she was 41 in 2007.

    Saddam was only in his 60’s when he was killed.

  • Katie

    OK, here’s the reply from Tom Symonds just received, I did get the years right , now how do we negotiate with the beeb ?

    I think for now I shall say thank I’ll get back to you.


    On 12 Oct 2012, at 12:26, Tom Symonds wrote:

    Hi Kate,

    Your email has filtered down to me. I’m one of the network Home Affairs Correspondents. BBC London did a piece on Monday which said that they had been unable to discover where Al Hilli had worked between 1988 and 2010. Quite a long period. They felt it was significant that professional associations for engineers had no record for him, but I would say this may be more cockup than conspiracy.

    I have been working on this story on and off — including obtaining the first interview with Brett Martin. I have also met Eric Maillaud in Annecy. My feeling is that the police are no closer to a theory than they were at the start, though I got the impression that lines in Iraq may be their best hope.

    We continue to follow this story with interest so if you have any you want to add please get in touch. In particular if you know of any close friends of SAH who are willing to talk, we’d be keen to know as we have traced some who were very close to him, but are unwilling to engage with the media.

    Either way, I’m a good point of contact for BBC News, so stay in touch.

    My mobile number is +44 7850 726 370

    Best wishes,

    Tom Symonds


    Could someone just write the years we know of…please ?

  • Thomas

    12 Oct, 2012 – 8:46 am

    Saddams wife Sajida Talfah is now 75. She was teacher before marry Saddam. Fled Iraq 1989, and was possible living in Switzerland. Went back to Iraq, and fled again 2003.
    It´s unclear where she and her daughters have been living since then ( even her lawyers says she is living in Quatar ).

    “…Sajida and her daughter Raghad Saddam Hussein are placed 16th and 17th on the Iraqi government’s most wanted list for financing Sunni Muslim insurgents under Saddam’s reign. It is also believed that Sajida, and her daughter Raghad Hussein have been funding the insurgency in Iraq with money they took with them when they fled the country. The lawyer leading Saddam’s defence team stated that “the charges against Raghad and Sajida are baseless” and that “Sajida lives in her house in Qatar alone and has no contact with anyone, not even the lawyers”

    There are some things that fits with Suhaila. But what´s not really fit at all, is that Sajida is sunnimuslim ( while al-Hilli was shia ).

  • Felix

    Yes, I agree. quite a lot of different director identity nos
    {} all linked at 55.
    Quite a few start-ups lately. Ospre, Waterman,Ognisko TV (Sole director); Princes Gate Properties Ltd (sole again)
    This is the only company which gives an address other than 55:
    but the company doesn’t fit in…

    Imex Capital is a strange one..check Hon Andrew Moray Stuart….(see Aikate Properties here {}

  • Felix

    Doesn’t seem like Tom is trying very hard! Or perhaps trying very hard not to discover anything. [© French & UK police]

  • Katie

    Thanks Thomas, yes I agree that would be a problem……. if she were devout.
    Rumour has it though that there were other wives in addition to the official number.

  • norfolkeagle

    Jeremy’s best one is of course Jesa Air UK, he does have some interesting friends. He also seems to have the habit of starting companies and then dissolving them about 2 years later, gets round having to file accounts!

  • Ferret


    I haven’t read your reply, as it spans the period of time *after* Israel was established.

    Once again, if your thesis is that all the world’s problems would go away if Israel did not exist, you would have to explain why there is a long history of war and conflict *BEFORE* Israel was established – not afterwards.

    Naturally this cannot be explained by anything to do with Israel – so your thesis is clearly false.

    My own view is that cannot stand this unfortunate fact, so you simply choose to ignore it. Nevertheless, it does disprove your thesis, whether you like it or not.

    Secondly, if your thesis is that Israel is involving itself in geopolitics, and trying and gain an advantage for itself, well, why shouldn’t it? Every other nation can, has, and would do the same, if they had the opportunity, and if their survival depended on it (or if they felt that it did). Are you just outraged that the “Jewish State” would have the temerity to behave the same as everyone else’s, and stand up for itself in the modern world? Or should they let geopolitics steamroller them into the sea? Or what exactly is your point here?

    Thirdly, if you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of the Israel/Palestine equation that would be fine with me if you were not already a self-confessed anti-semite. I do not believe for one second that you have any love for the Palestinians, seeing as they are not white and (mostly) not Christian. Rather, I believe that you simply wish to use their suffering (quite callously) to support your own evil, Jew-hating ends, and your call for the destruction of the Jewish state.

    There *is* a very real problem in Israel/Palestine – but your pronouncements about it do not serve to bring the prospects of peace any closer.

  • Ferret

    Could someone just write the years we know of…please ?

    Could Tom try calling Elekta and see what they will tell him? Or the two people who posted on SAH’s RIP page on Facebook, who said he was a colleague there?

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    I want to file a protest about Katie saying that I should be a socalled “anti-semit” – in effect echoing the furry animal. I’ve always found such echoing cowardly in the extreme: I mean – without thinking for yourself – if we for a minute suppose that such a process (i.e. thinking) was possible given the hardware (i.e. braincells).

    The accusation of socalled anti-semitism (sic) is a tool commonly emplyed to stain — and discourage — anyone who critisises Israel or maight think of doing so.

    Yet Ferret know nothing about how I think about ordinary Jews engaged in business, science or the arts. With them I have absolutely no problem, and they are a very resourceful group that has contributed greatly to their respective countries.

    Anyone who follow my debate on different forums will know that it is exclusively the ones in politics or the media who engages in advancing Israeli interests who I vehemently go against. And here I has an advantage as a Dane with a unique combination of non-existing authoritaraenism (not afraid of authorities) and a unique information-level. This makes us Israels greatest strategic foes, and I hope one day we succeed in getting Israel closed down — and in the meantime we will have a complete exposure of their dodgy undertakings – the greatest peril to the words stability today – be it security- og moneywise.

  • dopey

    Nice one Katie

    “They felt it was significant that professional associations for engineers had no record for him, but I would say this may be more cockup than conspiracy. ”

    For a self employed contractor he certainly seems to have kept a low profile. Though he’s on Linkedin he has zero connections, so you have to wonder why he bothered to join there since it seems nothing more than a token effort. Those connected to this case who are on Linkedin are mostly the same- they appear, but have no or next to no connections. I’ve never seen a bunch of connected people have (cumulatively) so little on their Linkedin profiles.

  • Katie

    I think he’ll have done that & that’s why he said people don’t want to talk to the press…understandable knowing how they twist things or mix up the facts.

    So you say he was known to work there,Elecktra, in, was it 2003 & I remember 2001 but where was he then ?
    It could of course be true that the beeb knows more than us.

  • Katie

    Dopey & yes,remember there were none on FB either, until that was picked up & suddenly messages appeared.

    As I have been looking at the killing more than his place of work I don’t know what we found about those years.

  • Ferret


    Great work by all re 55 Princes Gate… and NorfolkEagle, outstanding work to stake it out… I can’t believe it’s unoccupied from the 2nd floor up… can it really be? Could you see anything through the windows?

    Incidentally, it’s a criminal offence to give a false address to Companies House, or any false information of any kind. This applies of course both to limited companies and to directors. Jeremy Cannell has given 55 Princes Gate as his personal address, so far as I recall, so if he doesn’t live there it’s somewhat puzzling, to say the least, IMO.

    Likewise if anyone other than a real signatory is signing any company accounts – no accountant I know of would dream of doing it on behalf of their clients.


    Thanks again for your summary, it made me realise that NONE of the details fit at all, and it’s all a big jumble of pieces that don’t fit. It struck me that this is exactly how the “official” info around JFK appears, too…

  • Kenneth Sorensen

    The furry animal wrote:

    Thirdly, if you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of the Israel/Palestine equation that would be fine with me if you were not already a self-confessed anti-semite. I do not believe for one second that you have any love for the Palestinians, seeing as they are not white and (mostly) not Christian. Rather, I believe that you simply wish to use their suffering (quite callously) to support your own evil, Jew-hating ends, and your call for the destruction of the Jewish state.

    See my reply to Katie above, who was echoing you. Yes you are a fine pair. Your utterings quoted above is not worth a reply. Do what you are best at: Namely research those companies at 55 Princess Gate. And now we have the concept of “evil” thrown into it, and this from an indivisual taht spends his whole day on his backside unemployed with various conspiracy theories, not having time for that essential update on world affairs, that the rest of us do routinely

  • Katie

    Kenneth, change that to anti Zionist if you want, but I’d had enough of your constant barrage against a very troubled people.
    How I wish others could have achieved as much, do you know how much R&D, inventions & technical know how come from Israel ?

    I’m not going to get in deeper, because people have entrenched views on this & no amount of discussion is going to change them….so that’s my lot.

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