510 thoughts on “The Art of Pigsticking

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  • John Spencer-Davis

    Fred
    23/09/2015 6:06 pm

    Clearly the CIA has interfered with the AHR and the OED to draw attention away from the Kennedy assassination usage.

    Kind regards,

    John

  • KingOfWelshNoir

    Even if Fred’s link is genuine it in no way invalidates the historical truth that the CIA promoted the use of the term ‘conspiracy theory’ in the 60s to discredit those who challenged the official narrative of JFK. One early ‘conspiracy theorist’ so disparaged was Lord Bertrand Russell.

  • Peter Beswick

    JSD

    If JFK wasn’t hanging out of a pig at the time what is the relevence? No. 8 sorry

    OMG I RDI

  • Peter Beswick

    KOWN before I send a no. 8 I have to admit to being a Conspiracy Theorist and people like you who cast doubt on our existance, or confirm our existance or deny our existance well you are beyond the pale, its none of your business anyway your Welsh

    No.8

  • Anon1

    “Sorry, the OED gives the first recorded use of the term as 1909 in The American Historical Review.”

    Clearly the OED and AHR have been infiltrated by the CIA. A conspiracy to deflect attention from the conspiracy that the CIA invented conspiracy theories.

  • Peter Beswick

    Mark

    I’m out of ammo, there’s more on the way but I couldn’t real dart into acton over this until I understood if you were refering to black holes or pigs heads.

    We know information can be put ito a pigs head and then taken out again and repeated until all the information had dripped away but as far as black holes are concerned if anyone was to witness the event they would soon be joining the dribbles.

    So the important thing is make sure your ammo dump is preserved, your logistic supply lines protected and most importantly care.

  • Mary

    I saw some of these today on the A303 in the area of Salisbury Plain. They were painted in desert drab colours, pumping out loads of muck from their exhausts. Expensive junk returned from Afghanistan presumably.

    http://www.navistardefense.com/NavistarDefense/vehicles/maxxpromrap/maxxpro_dash_dxm

    Weep for your taxes.

    MoD chiefs ‘blew £150m on wrong trucks’ for Afghanistan
    12 July 2009

    The vehicle chosen by the Ministry of Defence to replace the controversial Snatch Land Rover – in which 37 British soldiers have been killed by roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan – was rejected by the U.S. Army after it allegedly failed explosive ‘survivability’ tests.

    The U.S. tests – to determine whether troops inside would survive if the vehicle were hit by a roadside bomb – were carried out just weeks before the British Government ordered 262 of the all-terrain vehicles for use in Afghanistan.

    Christened the Husky by the British military, the vehicle is due to take over much of the work of the lightly armoured Snatch Land Rover, which has been widely criticised as giving insufficient protection to soldiers.

    /..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1199136/MoD-chiefs-blew-150m-wrong-trucks-Afghanistan.html

    ‘In October 2003, Navistar CEO Dan Ustian announced the company would be forming a defense business unit in order to sell military vehicles. Navistar Defense would be led by Archie Massicotte, a 26 year veteran of the company. Ustian stated “This is a natural area of growth for International. We already have all the platforms that the U.S. military and other NATO countries could leverage for products and services.”[7]’
    /..
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_International#Hybrids_and_Navistar_Defense_LLC.2C_2003-present

  • fwl

    Is this a genuine Churchill quote:

    “….. this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing.”

  • lysias

    Lance deHaven-Smith’s book Conspiracy Theory in America demonstrates how rare the use of the phrase “conspiracy theory” was before the CIA promoted its use in the 1960’s.

  • Mary

    Ref TTIP. 2.8m people have signed a petition opposing it. Keep up the pressure.

    ‘Join War on Want and millions of others across Europe to stop the back room deal that could hold our public services hostage to big business and destroy our democracy for ever.

    You can help by signing up to our self-organised petition!

    Please share this page and get as many people as you can to join our call.’

    #noTTIP
    http://www.waronwant.org/say-no-ttip

    Will TTIP be an ‘economic NATO’?
    Cooling ardor on both sides of the Atlantic threatens the very existence of trade deal
    17/9/15
    http://www.politico.eu/article/will-ttip-be-an-economic-nato/

    It is being eased in by the EU.

    EU Proposes New Trans-Atlantic Court for Trade Disputes — 2nd Update
    By Dow Jones Business News
    September 15 2015
    BRUSSELS–The European Union has proposed a new international court system that would settle disputes between investors and national governments, and could help defuse tensions over a sweeping trade deal with the U.S.

    /..
    http://www.nasdaq.com/article/eu-proposes-new-transatlantic-court-for-trade-disputes–2nd-update-20150916-00947

  • Rose

    KOWN – I do hope you really are the chiselled-jawed hero/sleuth of my girlhood fantasies – complete with fag of course.

    I give you 10 – whatever that means. xx

  • RobG

    @N_

    The entire mainstream media are now trying to play down claims of child sex abuse and murder by people in the Establishment.

    The police, to their credit, seem to be actually stepping up investigations:

    http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=24449

    I think I’ve probably said before that a turning point in all this was the Ben Fellows trial at the Old Bailey a month or so ago. Fellows was found not guilty of lying about allegations against Kenneth Clarke. It was the first time that a court of law upheld such allegations against a high level political figure.

    Clarke has never sued Fellows for libel.

    Likewise, Proctor has never sued for libel.

    And in a similar (throbbing) vein, Cameron is not sueing Lord Ashcroft or the Mail for libel.

    Either it’s all a conspiracy, or else the British Establishment is rotten and corrupt to the core.

  • lysias

    The 1909 article that used the phrase “conspiracy theory” is mentioned in the Wikipedia entry on “conspiracy theory”. In the edit section of that entry, I read the following:

    Originally a neutral term, since the mid-1960s in the aftermath of the [[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|assassination of US President John F. Kennedy]], it has acquired a derogatory meaning, implying a paranoid tendency to see the influence of some malign covert agency in events.”20th Century Words” (1999) John Ayto, [[Oxford University Press]], p. 15.

    So the CIA was at work here. (I do not have access to Ayto’s book.)

  • Peter Beswick

    RoS you haven’t got any more pics of the little refugee washed up on a beach have you?

    You do realise RoSe has started throwing around no. 10’s.

    I wish you would be more careful with your posts

  • John Spencer-Davis

    Not sure if this has been posted yet, but blimey, look at this. Saudi Arabia chosen to head a UN Human Rights Panel.

    https://theintercept.com/2015/09/23/u-s-state-department-welcomes-news-close-ally-saudi-arabia-chosen-head-u-n-human-rights-council-panel/

    The media are generally really, really quiet about UK/US relations with Saudi Arabia and other friendly Middle East nations, for the very good reason that it demonstrates very strikingly that any talk about human rights being a motivation for Western intervention in that region is a pile of horse manure.

    Kind regards,

    John

  • lysias

    Here is what RationalWiki has to say about the phrase “conspiracy theory”, http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#cite_note-7:

    A conspiracy theory originally meant the “theory” that an event or phenomenon was the result of conspiracy between interested parties; however, from the mid-1960s onward, it is often used to denote ridiculous, misconceived, paranoid, unfounded, outlandish or irrational theories.[4][5][6][7] The problem is this results in possibly-rational conspiracy theories getting lost in the midst of the noise of newsworthy but disingenuous ideas such as New World Order or the Moon landing hoax.

    Daniel Pipes, in an early essay “adapted from a study prepared for the CIA”, attempted to define which beliefs distinguish ‘the conspiracy mentality’ from ‘more conventional patterns of thought’. He defined them as: appearances deceive; conspiracies drive history; nothing is haphazard; the enemy always gains power, fame, money, and sex. [8]

  • lysias

    Support for the view that, prior to the 1960’s, “conspiracy theory” did not have a history of being used disparagingly is provided by Michael Fullerton, Yep, “Conspiracy Theory” Used to be Neutral – It’s Your Confirmation Bias That’s Wrong, http://skeptopathy.com/wp/?p=145, which has the following to say about the 1909 usage:

    Blaskiewicz next frantically grasps at straws to uncover evidence that supports his belief that the term “conspiracy theory” was always used disparagingly. His first attempt comes from a 1909 article from the American Historical Review. Bizarrely the reference actually supports the idea that the term is being used neutrally. The quoted text merely stated that no new evidence has been found to support the conspiracy theory but what evidence did exist was carefully recorded in the journal. How on Earth is that disparaging?

    Fullerton also cites Ayto’s book:

    Although Blaskiewicz does reference deHaven-Smith, he neglects to mention John Ayto’s 1999 book “20th Century Words” which presented strong evidence that the term “conspiracy theory” did in fact change from neutral to negative in the mid 60s.

    So the citation of Ayto in the Wikipedia passage is apparently correct.

  • Peter Beswick

    I think “pig swill” in connection with this thread is unfortunate but the theme needs to be respected.

    Here is Rose throwing no.10’s at someone with Welsh conections (sheep, wellies etc) and a Scottish proponent (speculative society which he hasn’t mentioned yet afaik(as far as I know)I’ve started making them up cos the cool cats on here are down with anachronisms).

    Can’t you see it, its all about sticking willies in animals or coprophilia (speculative society).

    I think Craig might be a spy.

  • fwl

    Shortly after 9/11 there was an WSJ leader or editorial which mooted a possibility of the colonisation of Saudi Arabia and a milltiary take over of the oil wells.

    Back on the more general conspiracy theme; it is the conjunction of ‘theory’ with ‘conspiracy’, which causes the negative association.

    Peter Dale Scott is worth reading on the concept of the deep state. It is not necessarily a big master plan and one deep state, but a collection of operations, alliances and interests groups from Tory party old Etonian grandees to Corbynistas – they all plot albeit some with more skill and success than others. Even those, who succeed are probably somewhat on the hoof and surprised by their success, or at least that is the impression that the DM gave me when I read about DC and the grandees today, but when it comes to a Euro super state or JFK or things we don’t talk about then well they would obviously need military level clinical planning.

    A big conspiracy would be to undermine all parties in parliament and so far two have gone and there is one to go (exc SNPs) now that is what I call a conspiracy theory i.e. no evidence of any conspiracy at all.

  • Republicofscotland

    “RoS you haven’t got any more pics of the little refugee washed up on a beach have you?

    You do realise RoSe has started throwing around no. 10’s.

    I wish you would be more careful with your posts”
    ________________________

    Pete, refer to 7.14pm post…..I’m sure your comical quirks would’ve went down a treat in Bedlam.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    This thread seems to have taken a sudden swerve into a place I do not understand at all.

    Second to the right: straight on till morning.

    Kind regards,

    John

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